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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: the seventh of January.

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Speaker 1: I'm Zara Seidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: In the aftermath of the Bondai terrorist attack, pressure is

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Speaker 2: mounting for a federal royal commission into anti Semitism in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi has rejected the calls on a

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Speaker 2: number of occasions, but families of victims, business and sport leaders,

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Speaker 2: some labor MPs, and the opposition say it's essential after

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Speaker 2: the country's worst ever terrorist attack. In today's podcast, we'll

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Speaker 2: unpack the calls for a royal commission, what it actually

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Speaker 2: is and why the Prime Minister is suggesting it might

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Speaker 2: delay action.

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Speaker 1: So Zara, I feel like after the first kind of

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Speaker 1: seven days post the terror attack at Bondai, the conversation

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Speaker 1: kind of over the Christmas break really did turn to

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Speaker 1: the nature of the government investigation into what had happened

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Speaker 1: in Bondai and what that investigation would actually look like,

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Speaker 1: and there were some strong calls for a royal commission

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Speaker 1: into anti Semitism. Take me back to the origins of

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Speaker 1: these calls and let's go from there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll take one step further back, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think anyone needs reminding, but just as a refresher,

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Speaker 2: on December fourteenth, two gunmen opened fire at a Jewish

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Speaker 2: community event at Bondai Beach. Fifteen innocent people were killed

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Speaker 2: and many more were injured. Hundreds of members of the

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Speaker 2: Jewish community had gathered to mark the first day of

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Speaker 2: Kanaka when those gunmen opened fire. Now, authorities very quickly

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Speaker 2: declared that to be a terrorist attack, and it's now

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Speaker 2: been labeled the deadliest terrorist attack on Australian soil so

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Speaker 2: ever before. So that is what happened on December fourteenth.

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Speaker 2: As you said then, it was a week or two

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Speaker 2: afterwards that we started to hear these calls for a

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Speaker 2: royal commission. Begin now. On the twenty ninth of December,

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Speaker 2: family members of victims who had been murdered in that

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Speaker 2: massacre published an open letter, and in that open letter

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Speaker 2: they called for the Prime Minister very clearly to immediately

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Speaker 2: establish a Royal commission into the rise of antisemitism here

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Speaker 2: in Australia. In particular, the families called for a commission

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Speaker 2: to investigate the quote rapid rise of anti Semitism in

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Speaker 2: Australia following Hamas's attack on October seven and the law enforcement,

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Speaker 2: intelligence and policy failures that led to the Bondai Beach massacre.

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Speaker 2: The letter went on to say that quote we demand

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Speaker 2: answers and solutions and to know why clear warning signs

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Speaker 2: were ignored.

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Speaker 1: And I think why this is a tricky story to

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Speaker 1: break down is because there have been some inquiries announced

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Speaker 1: in that time since. So to really understand what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about today, I do think we need to understand

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Speaker 1: exactly what a royal commission is. Give me like a

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Speaker 1: definition of a royal commission.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so a Royal commission is a major investigation into

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Speaker 2: something of great importance to the country. Now, they're called

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Speaker 2: by governments, usually the federal government, but are carried out

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Speaker 2: independently to minimize conflict of interest, so they will appoint

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Speaker 2: somebody independently so that the government can't be accused of

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Speaker 2: meddling in the course of it. Once called, the Royal

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Speaker 2: commission has strong powers to talk to witnesses, to request

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Speaker 2: information and consult with experts. So there are ordinary investigations

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Speaker 2: and then there's a Royal commission, and this one has

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Speaker 2: more powers than an ordinary investigation might.

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Speaker 1: So give me a sense of, like what type of

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Speaker 1: topics in the last couple of years have had a

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Speaker 1: Royal commission into them.

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Speaker 2: So we've had a Royal commission into defense and veteran suicides.

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Speaker 2: We've had one into the robodet scheme. What you can

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Speaker 2: tell from those two topics alone is that they're typically

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Speaker 2: reserved for issues that require serious and thorough investigation. They're

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Speaker 2: not for run of the mill issues day to day.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned before that it wasn't just the families

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Speaker 1: of the victims who were calling for this royal commission.

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Speaker 1: There were other groups. Who else is kind of jumping

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Speaker 1: on that call.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got to say it felt like every day

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Speaker 2: over the holidays when you opened a newspaper there was

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Speaker 2: a different open letter that had been published that day. So,

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Speaker 2: as I said, it started with the families, We've since

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Speaker 2: had business leaders publish an open letter. We've had judges

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Speaker 2: and legal professionals publish an open letter. We've had sports

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Speaker 2: stars here in Australia publish an open letter. So it's

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Speaker 2: kind of been a cross industry response to this terrorist attack.

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Speaker 2: There have also been calls from within the Labor Party,

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Speaker 2: So people like Ed Husick and Mike Freelander who sit

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Speaker 2: on the back bench, they've called on their own party,

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Speaker 2: as well as former Labor MPs who have also published

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Speaker 2: public letters calling for this. Then across the Aisle we've

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Speaker 2: had Opposition Leader Susan Lee repeatedly calling on the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister to call a royal commission. She has said that

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Speaker 2: quote the Prime Minister has called for unity today. There

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Speaker 2: is unity from every sector of Australia pleading for this

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Speaker 2: Commonwealth Royal Commission. And so to get to the heart

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Speaker 2: of what all of these various letters are calling for,

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Speaker 2: it's that there is a belief that only a federal

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Speaker 2: Royal Commission has the authority to examine anti Semitism, to

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Speaker 2: examine the why, as they put it, behind this attack.

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Speaker 2: So we'll speak in a bit about some other investigations

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Speaker 2: that are ongoing, things that are looking at, say intelligence failures.

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Speaker 2: But those that are calling for a Royal commission are

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Speaker 2: suggesting that there needs to be a mechanism through which

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Speaker 2: to look at and examine and investigate the anti Semitism

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Speaker 2: that underpinned this terrorist attack that targeted the Jewish community.

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Speaker 2: And they believe the people that are openly calling for

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Speaker 2: this royal commission that it's a way to pull together

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Speaker 2: all of the different I guess themes and things that

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Speaker 2: have come up in the course of the last few weeks,

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Speaker 2: things like who knew what and gun violence, but also then,

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Speaker 2: as I said, the ideological underpinnings of the attack itself.

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Speaker 1: Right, So it's kind of bringing everything together in one

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Speaker 1: kind of big royal federal investigation. What has the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister's response been to this?

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Speaker 2: So until now, the Prime Minister has publicly rejected calls

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Speaker 2: for a royal commission, and I'll go into his points

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Speaker 2: as to why. In a moment, we did get an

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Speaker 2: update yesterday and exclusive from the Nine Papers that suggested

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Speaker 2: the Prime Minister might be shifting his view on this,

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Speaker 2: that privately he has discussed potentially going out and calling

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Speaker 2: for one. But right now all that's been said publicly

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Speaker 2: is that the Prime Minister will not carry out a

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Speaker 2: royal commission, a federal royal commission, and instead he's outlined

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Speaker 2: a four point plan that he says is his government's

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Speaker 2: response to the attack. First, and I'll go through these

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Speaker 2: four points. First, he said that ensuring the surviving gunman

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Speaker 2: goes through the legal system is a top priority. We

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Speaker 2: know one of the gunmen was killed during a police shootout.

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Speaker 2: The other one has been moved to maximum security prison

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Speaker 2: and is awaiting a court appearance.

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Speaker 1: There that'll be in April, I think, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then secondary to that, the government is supporting a

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Speaker 2: New South Wales Royal Commission that Premier Chris Mins has

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Speaker 2: already announced. So just to not get confused here, so

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Speaker 2: state and federal different powers, different jurisdictions. Obviously, this attack

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Speaker 2: took place in Sydney, which is in New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: So the New South Wales Premier has announced he will

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Speaker 2: launch a state Royal Commission. We don't really know what

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Speaker 2: that will look like yet. I spoke to his office

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Speaker 2: just before we got on Mike and they said that

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Speaker 2: they're currently working through what those terms of reference would be.

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Speaker 2: So we don't have a whole heap of information, but

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Speaker 2: we do know that Anthony Alberanezi has said that his

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Speaker 2: government would support that Royal Commission and whatever was found there, and.

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Speaker 1: Just quickly to break down that little bit of political

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Speaker 1: term terms of reference, that's kind of like a menu

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Speaker 1: of what they would want the commission to look at, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the scope of it essentially. Thirdly, there has

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Speaker 2: been an independent review announced by the federal government, not

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Speaker 2: a royal commission, an independent review into the effectiveness of

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Speaker 2: Australia's police and intelligence agencies in the context of this

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Speaker 2: Bondai terrorist attack. So this is currently underway. It's being

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Speaker 2: undertaken by Dennis Richardson and that is due by April.

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Speaker 2: So that's a fairly quick turnaround. That is specifically looking

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Speaker 2: into intelligence failures. So what happened with a zo afp

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Speaker 2: the like to understand who knew what and when got

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Speaker 2: basically okay? Then so I said there was a four

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Speaker 2: point plan by the government.

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Speaker 1: So the prosecution of the individual who's still alive. Correct,

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Speaker 1: We have the new South Wales Royal Commission which has

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Speaker 1: been announced by Chris Means, but we don't know what

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Speaker 1: exactly that's going to look at. Then we have the

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Speaker 1: independent review into these security and law enforcement aspects of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then fourth, fourth, yeah, Fourth, we have the

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Speaker 2: government's response to recommendations from a July report called the

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Speaker 2: Plan to Combat Anti Semitism. Now that report was delivered

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Speaker 2: by Australia's Special Envoid to Combat Anti Semitism. Her name

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Speaker 2: is Gillian Siegel.

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Speaker 1: In July of last year, you said, correct, So that report.

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Speaker 2: Was handed down around six months ago. Now at the time,

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Speaker 2: the government said it was considering its response to the report. Then,

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Speaker 2: following the Bonde attack, Albanzi said his government would accept

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Speaker 2: the recommendations and would work to implement them. And I

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Speaker 2: just want to sit on this point a bit further

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Speaker 2: because whenever Anthony Alberanzi has been asked about why he

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Speaker 2: won't call a royal commission into anti Semitism, he has

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Speaker 2: pointed out things he's done so far, like setting up

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Speaker 2: the first envoy into anti Semitism in this country. Jillian

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Speaker 2: Siegel was the first person to be appointed to that position,

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Speaker 2: and so he has pointed to that as a there's

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Speaker 2: already been an investigation into anti Semitism, and be that

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Speaker 2: he says his government is already acting on her recommendations.

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Speaker 2: I do think, though, for the purposes of this conversation

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Speaker 2: not to get confused, let's stay talking about a royal commission.

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Speaker 1: So would you say that essentially, Anthony Alberze's point is

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Speaker 1: that we already have investigations underway, and that announcing a

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Speaker 1: royal Commission and getting that process started could delay action.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's basically the main argument that's been put

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Speaker 2: forward by Albanesi and his government. They're saying, there is

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Speaker 2: already this new South Wales one, and there is already

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Speaker 2: this independent review happening. As I said, that's been handed

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Speaker 2: down in April, and his suggestion is that any Commonwealth

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Speaker 2: Royal commission would slow that down. We know that royal

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Speaker 2: commissions can take a long time. For example, the Royal

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Speaker 2: Commission into Defense and Veterans Suicide took three years, and

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Speaker 2: so Albanese's claims have been essentially, let's act quicker. We

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Speaker 2: don't want this to be slowed down. Obviously, the families

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Speaker 2: of the victims and all those other industry bodies that

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Speaker 2: I've spoken about disagree with this point, but that's certainly

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Speaker 2: what the government is putting forward. There has also been

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Speaker 2: another argument put forward by the government. I specifically heard

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Speaker 2: Tony Burke, the Home Affairs Minister, talking about this one.

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Speaker 2: He has suggested that holding a Royal commission could worsen

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Speaker 2: social cohesion. He said that it could provide a platform

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Speaker 2: for what he called the worst voices when it comes

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Speaker 2: to anti semitism, can.

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Speaker 1: You spell out how that would play out in a

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Speaker 1: Royal Commission.

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Speaker 2: Setting, basically, because there would be hearings and people would

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Speaker 2: have to appear before the Royal Commission. The suggestion there

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Speaker 2: is possibly we could hear even further anti semitism, or

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Speaker 2: these people would have a voice or a platform to

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Speaker 2: make their views known. On the flip side of that, though,

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Speaker 2: we've heard from the daughter of victim, Reuven Morrison, who said,

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Speaker 2: let those voices be heard to get the answers that

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Speaker 2: we need. She said, we have to face up to

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Speaker 2: the worst. We must do whatever it to get the

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Speaker 2: answers we need. So we have lots of voices here,

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Speaker 2: lots of differing opinions. But this is a story that

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Speaker 2: we're going to have to watch. It's not going away.

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Speaker 2: After all. It was the worst terrorist attack, as we said,

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Speaker 2: in Australian history, and what happens from here will be

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Speaker 2: closely followed.

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Speaker 1: It will be and we'll be keeping an eye on

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Speaker 1: all those individual inquiries as they play out. Will also be,

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Speaker 1: of course, as with a lot of the country, watching

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Speaker 1: the criminal proceedings that adue to resume in April. Tzara,

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Speaker 1: thank you for taking us through that.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Sam and thank you for joining us for this

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Speaker 2: episode of the Daily os. We'll be back later today

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Speaker 2: with the headlines, but until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: bunge Lung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz

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Speaker 1: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of

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Speaker 1: the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and

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Speaker 1: Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to

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Speaker 1: the first peoples of these countries, both parts, just in

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Speaker 1: present