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Speaker 1: Now you might have seen media reports that asbestos was

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Speaker 1: found near a top end primary school. It is understood

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Speaker 1: that the material was uncovered during the revitalization of the

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Speaker 1: Richardson Park Rugby League venue, which is indeed next door

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Speaker 1: to Ludmiller Primary School. Now the Environment Protection Authority has

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Speaker 1: issued a pollution abatement notice ordering the hazardous material to

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Speaker 1: be cleaned up. Joining me on the line right now

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Speaker 1: to tell us a little bit more about the situation

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Speaker 1: is the Executive Director of Land Development, Graham Finch. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Graham, Morning Katie Graham.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about the

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Speaker 1: situation and well, just how much asbestos has been found

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Speaker 1: in Ludmiller.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, we've been we've been working on the redevelopment

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Speaker 2: of Richardson Park now for since about the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the year. And this is a brownfield site that has

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Speaker 2: been developed over various stages over a long period of time.

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Speaker 2: And so as we get into different parts of the

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Speaker 2: site where we're finding mostly very small fragments of asbestos

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Speaker 2: in soil in different places, and once we find it,

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Speaker 2: we have we have fairly specific protocols in place as

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Speaker 2: to how we deal with asbestos. But if we get

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Speaker 2: to the point where we understand that the asbestos is

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Speaker 2: mixed through soil, then we have to treat all of

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Speaker 2: that soils as contaminated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, because I guess Graham, you know, anybody that

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Speaker 1: sort of works in construction or in you know, has

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Speaker 1: built a home or done rehnos to an older home

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Speaker 1: or or the like in the territory understands that there

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Speaker 1: is always going to be asbestos to deal with. So

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty regular sort of thing that you have

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Speaker 1: to deal with. I'm assuming within the department it is Katie.

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Speaker 2: And it's a thing we know, we know the likelihood

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Speaker 2: is high. We do geotechnical investigations up front see whether

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Speaker 2: we can find that it's there. But it's very much

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Speaker 2: looking for a needle in a haystack. Because we're not talking,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think the listeners need to understand. It's

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Speaker 2: not big piles of as best as sheetings. It's fifty

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Speaker 2: cent pieces maybe as big as your hands, spread through

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Speaker 2: you know, tons and tons of topsoil or film material.

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Speaker 2: And so we've been through a process at an ongoing

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Speaker 2: process because we found we found the first bits of

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Speaker 2: it fairly early on during the demolition and so we've

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Speaker 2: we have consultants and auditors and been working with the

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Speaker 2: EPA around how to deal with it. And so we've

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Speaker 2: we have previously constructed a containment cell which allows us

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Speaker 2: to contain, gather up all of that material, put it

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Speaker 2: in the containment cell, and cap it so that it's safe.

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Speaker 2: And so we work through this process and the current

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Speaker 2: PAN and so a pollution Abatement notice is at the

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Speaker 2: end of a process. We have worked through the options

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Speaker 2: and agreed with the EPA as the most appropriate way

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Speaker 2: to deal with it, and then they issue the PAN

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Speaker 2: as a final approval.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: That PAN allows us to put the most recent material

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Speaker 2: that we found into the containment se okay.

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Speaker 1: And so Graham, when you talk you know, like when

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Speaker 1: you talk about that as BESTO. So I know that

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Speaker 1: you said that it's the fragments in the soil. Does

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Speaker 1: that make it sort of more difficult to deal with

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Speaker 1: then what it is? If it is a big sheet?

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Speaker 2: Well, it is it is in many ways because it's

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Speaker 2: been covered. The fragments are generally they're all as best

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Speaker 2: to cement fragments broken up in during cyclone Tracy. But

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Speaker 2: because they've been buried and away from the sun. They're

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Speaker 2: in good condition, so they're they're not fragmenting and breaking up,

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Speaker 2: so they fairly they fairly whole. The biggest issue for

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Speaker 2: us is that they very small fragments in a lot

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Speaker 2: of soil, and so to take it a shell bay,

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Speaker 2: you're paying a lot of money to tip mostly soil

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Speaker 2: and very small quantities might in a ton you might

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Speaker 2: get a handful of pieces of asbestos, and so taking

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Speaker 2: it as shoal bay is not a good use of

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Speaker 2: taxpayer money, nor is it the right thing to take

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Speaker 2: up space in a landfill cell in shol bay. And

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Speaker 2: so we've been consistently over projects building these containment cells

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Speaker 2: so that we can keep them where it originally was

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Speaker 2: in a manner that's safe and the public or utility

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Speaker 2: workers or anyone else doesn't have access to it.

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Speaker 1: What kind of like cubic meters of soil are you

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Speaker 1: talking about having to kind of sift through here.

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Speaker 2: So in various we're probably in around the I think

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Speaker 2: it's around the two thousand.

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Speaker 3: Tons, which seems to be a large number, but it's

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Speaker 3: you know, in the Marara detention base, and for instance,

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Speaker 3: we had nearly ten thousand tons we found there, and

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Speaker 3: it was just used the rules with different post cyclone

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Speaker 3: tracy up until sort of ten or fifteen years ago, when.

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Speaker 2: The new environmental rules pertaining to as best as came in.

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Speaker 2: It was just not it was seen as an inert

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Speaker 2: part of film material. And so it's been used to

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Speaker 2: fill various things at various time around town. And so

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Speaker 2: every time you go into Brownfield's development, you just have

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Speaker 2: to you have to know that it's coming and be

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Speaker 2: prepared to deal with it. And so we have these

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Speaker 2: protocols in place that when we find it that we

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Speaker 2: were able to fairly quickly and cost effectively.

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Speaker 1: Deal with it. And so was it something that was

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Speaker 1: uncovered in this instance, you know, because it is something

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Speaker 1: that you're sort of always expecting when you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: a brown Field site.

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Speaker 2: Look that we found a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 2: weird stuff on Richardson Park and it's we're going to

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Speaker 2: end up with a site that's a whole lot cleaner,

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Speaker 2: that all of the bad stuff is going to be

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Speaker 2: in one place where we in the EPA and nowhere

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Speaker 2: it's going to be, and it'll be capital for not

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Speaker 2: accessible by you know, kids or anyone else happen to

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Speaker 2: be digging through it, and so we'll end up with

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Speaker 2: a great facility that's that's going to be an asset

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Speaker 2: to the community, that's not going to have any any

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Speaker 2: nasty things in it.

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Speaker 1: And Graham, I think that that's a big question really

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Speaker 1: this morning. You know, are there any concerns with this

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Speaker 1: asbestos that's been found, you know, or any risk to

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Speaker 1: students that are obviously at the school nearby.

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Speaker 2: No, not really, it's all it's very it's very small

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Speaker 2: quantities of fragments, and so the asbestos is all contained

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Speaker 2: in the in the cement fiber. And because it's been buried,

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Speaker 2: it's it's in good condition, it's not breaking up, and

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Speaker 2: so it's just a case of it gets we dig

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Speaker 2: the cell, we take the clean stuff out, we put

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Speaker 2: it back in there. It stays wet and covered with

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Speaker 2: and I think if people go to the site, they'll

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Speaker 2: see the geffabric covering those stockpiles, just to make sure

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Speaker 2: things are blowing around, and I know it's all nice

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Speaker 2: and contained.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I know that you know that there

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Speaker 1: had been a report that said that the EPA said

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Speaker 1: that during that preliminary work that that asbestos containing material

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Speaker 1: impacted soils was found spread across five hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: square meters. It said that in additional investigations there was

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Speaker 1: an estimated eight hundred and sixteen tons of asbestos, but

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Speaker 1: asbestos contaminated material. But by the sounds of things, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about soil here and there being small amounts of

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Speaker 1: asbestos within that soil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when they talk about contaminated material, it's the quantity

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Speaker 2: of soil. So in terms of asbestos, it's not large

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Speaker 2: volumes of actual asbestos fragments, but it's very difficult, it's

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Speaker 2: very difficult to take it out of the soil. And

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Speaker 2: so once we understand like if we find we have

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Speaker 2: what we call on expected fines protocol. If we find

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Speaker 2: a random sheet or a piece of pipe, we can

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Speaker 2: deal with that piece of asbestos cement on its own.

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Speaker 2: But if we find soil with fragments scattered through it,

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Speaker 2: then we have to deal with that whole soil arise

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Speaker 2: and as contaminated. So we basically pick all of that

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Speaker 2: up and put it into a containment cell.

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Speaker 1: And so where exactly will that containment cell then be.

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Speaker 1: It'll be somewhere there near Richardson.

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Speaker 2: Park, so it stays with on the site. The cell

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Speaker 2: is over towards where the road is going to be,

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Speaker 2: so it needs to be outside of any flooding associated

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Speaker 2: with Ludmiller Creek, away from playing fields, in an area

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Speaker 2: that's fairly inert and is unlikely to be accessed by

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Speaker 2: because what we don't because what we do is we'll

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Speaker 2: dig it down, bury it and then we cover it

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Speaker 2: with a couple of layers of marker geofabric so colored

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Speaker 2: geofabric and then a capping layer which is compacted earth,

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Speaker 2: and so it's very difficult to get to it. And

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Speaker 2: we just know the biggest risk is somebody turns up

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Speaker 2: and wants to dig a pipe through an area and

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Speaker 2: then they dig straight through the containment cell. And that's

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Speaker 2: the thing we're trying to stop with the marker layers

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Speaker 2: and making sure that it's captured on the EPA system

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Speaker 2: so that they know where it is and if anybody's

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Speaker 2: looking for it, they can find information as to where

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Speaker 2: it is, how deep it is, how.

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Speaker 3: Big it is.

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Speaker 1: Griham. Before I let you go, you said that there's

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Speaker 1: been some weird stuff found on the Richardson Park site.

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Speaker 1: What else have you discovered.

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Speaker 2: Oh, just in the old spectator mounds. They sort of

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Speaker 2: built a base out of out of concretes. It would

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Speaker 2: look like concrete boulders. There was steel cans used at

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Speaker 2: the base of it. So a range of a range

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Speaker 2: of funny things that have been used over time to

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Speaker 2: build it up. It was built over multiple stages. Is

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Speaker 2: using what was at hand at the time and in

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Speaker 2: accordance with the requirements of the time, which obviously changed. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you've got to deal with it with today's requirements. And

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Speaker 2: so we pick all those things up and they'll all

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Speaker 2: end up in the containment cell or at Shellbay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and so but everything's going pretty pretty well

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Speaker 1: to plan there with that Richardson Park redevelopment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's going it's going well. We're trying to

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Speaker 2: be done before the rugby season kicks off next year.

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Speaker 2: We're going to tender shortly on the facilities block in

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Speaker 2: the next month or so, so we'll get that built

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Speaker 2: and so we might still be tiding up a few

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Speaker 2: things by into April, but it should be it should

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Speaker 2: be done done by sort of the early part of

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Speaker 2: next year before the NROL season kicks off.

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Speaker 1: Well, Graham Finch. We appreciate your time this morning. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for having a chat to us about that

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Speaker 1: as best our situation and uh and yeah it's interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate you having a talk with us this morning.

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Speaker 1: No worries, thank you,