1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: What kind of stories do you tell yourself about yourself? 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: If you're like most people, those stories are probably pretty 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: nasty most of the time. Whether you're beating yourself up 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: for not being a productivity machine or for not being 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: the perfect parent or husband or wife, you are not alone. 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Leo Babata, who runs the massively popular blog zen Habits, 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: knows these stories all too well. He worries constantly that 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: he's not the writer he should be, or that he's 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: not the coach his clients deserve. But the difference is 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Leo's hyper aware of these stories and constantly reminds himself 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: that they're just stories. And if they're just stories, well 12 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: maybe he can rewrite them. Leo shared with me how 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: his current journaling practice helps him rewrite the unhelpful narratives 14 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: he's told himself over the years, and he also explained 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: his unique process for iteraty of writing, inspired by the 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: workflows of software engineers. My name is doctor amanthe Impact. 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science 18 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a show 19 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. Leo 20 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: has written a lot about morning routines. And while it 21 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: does sometimes feel cliche to ask someone about their morning routine, 22 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: I couldn't resist asking Leo about his given how mindful 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: he is of the way he structures his days. So 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: let's find out how Leo is structuring his morning routine 25 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: at the moment. 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: That's great that you added at the moment, because it's funny. 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: I write about it throughout the years, and it changes, 28 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: and I find that it's almost like a seasonal thing 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: for me, where I will find what's supportive for me, 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: like right now on the journey that I'm on, and 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: what I need in my mission in my personal life. 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: So at the moment, I am rising with the sun 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: whatever that is at the time of year that I'm in, 34 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: so I rarely get up when it's dark anymore, and 35 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: I like the early morning light. And just I start 36 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: my coffee, I take a little bit of movement, not 37 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: too much, just stretching and moving a little bit, and 38 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: then I start checking in and checking in with myself, 39 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: a little bit of meditation, again not too much, and 40 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: then I start journaling, and then I start deciding what 41 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 2: I want to do for the day, and then I 42 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: usually I might answer some emails and check in with 43 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: my team, but usually fairly early on I'll do like 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: my most important task, and I like to do the 45 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: writing and things like that that I'm creating before I 46 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: get into meetings, calls and stuff like that. 47 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about your journaling practice and 48 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: what that involves. 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that also evolves, so it looks different depending on 50 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: what I need at the time. Right now, I do 51 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: a little bit of gratitude journaling, just really to get 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: me in touch with the idea that I do have 53 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: a lot in my life, a lot of abundance things 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: that I'm really thankful for, and that puts me in 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: the right mood for taking on what I want to 56 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: take on in the day. Is that I feel connected 57 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: to the fact that I have so much support in 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: my life, so much love in my life, so much 59 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: meaning and joy, and it's so easy to forget and 60 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: take for granted. So that's one thing I do. I 61 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: also do a little bit of a thing that's called 62 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: clearing practice, which in this case I could mean a 63 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: different number of different things, but in this case it's 64 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: really writing out my crappy stories about myself and with 65 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: the fears that I have about myself and then really 66 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: getting clear that that's just a story and interpretation, and 67 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: then deciding what I'd like to stand for that is 68 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: outside of that story. Lately it's been love, so something 69 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: so basic and simple as love, but reminding myself to 70 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: be love in the world and then to let myself 71 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: express myself from that place. 72 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: Now, the bulk of your work is writing, and you've 73 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: been operating Zen Habits your blog for about fifteen years now, 74 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: I believe, and I want to know how do you 75 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: keep coming up with fresh ideas for your blog posts. 76 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: There was a time when I was actually struggling with that. 77 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: That was like a few years, maybe four or five 78 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: years into my writing, and I was like, man, I've 79 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: written about this stuff over and over, like habits and 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: simplicity and mindfulness changing your life. These are things that 81 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: I you know, productivity, These are things that I knew 82 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: really well, but I'd written about them and experimented with 83 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: them and tried all kinds of different ideas, and I 84 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 2: was kind of it was like the well was running dry. 85 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: That was actually a really scary thing for me because 86 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: I I was like, well, what if that's all I 87 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: have to say? What if I'm done here. So I 88 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 2: realized that I didn't want to just keep saying the 89 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: same thing over and over. I wanted to go deeper. 90 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: So I started to deepen into my own exploration, my 91 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: own practices. I started working with a Zen teacher more 92 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: closely and studying. Deepening into my Zen practice. I started 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: working with a coach. I started coaching people and working 94 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: with them more closely. So I worked with people in 95 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: a membership program and then more one on one and 96 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 2: in small groups. And the more that I deepened into 97 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 2: all of that, the more that I found so much 98 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: richness to write about. So I even these days, if 99 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: I sit down, I'm like, what I want to write 100 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: about today? If I have nothing to write about, that's 101 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: a little bit of a scary thing. And then I 102 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: allow myself to explore the fear that comes up when 103 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 2: I don't have something to write about, and like, what 104 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: is there some rich ground there? So now there's actually 105 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: like never an end to something to write about, because 106 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: I'm always looking into my current experience and in my 107 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 2: work with others and the things that I'm learning about, 108 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: the things that I'm excited about. And if I'm not 109 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: excited about something, that's a that's a really good sign 110 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: that there's maybe something missing or something more to explore, 111 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: or maybe I just explore what it's like to not 112 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: be excited about something. What if everything feels really gray 113 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: and dull and I don't I'm just like bored. I 114 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: can write about boredom, and so there's really no end 115 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: to things that I could write about. 116 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: I've heard that you take inspiration from software to it 117 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to writing blog posts, So I'd love 118 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: you to tell me about your iterative approach to writing. 119 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, actually, I think this might be I'm 120 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: not saying I'm the only one in the world, but 121 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: I did draw inspiration when I started learning, you know, 122 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: more than a decade ago about that like agile software development, 123 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: and I think I might be one of the few 124 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: people who started doing this at the time. And you know, 125 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: maybe now there's more. But it's really interesting because when 126 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: I was reading about software development, you know, there's an 127 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 2: old model. You know, let's say Microsoft's model when they 128 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: were developing, you know, in the nineties, developing the next 129 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: version of Windows. They would spend a couple of years 130 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: working on the software in kind of isolation, and then 131 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: they would put it out into the world fully developed, launched, 132 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: and then people would try it, and you know, inevitably 133 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: a bunch of people would be like, this sucks. This 134 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: isn't what I needed. I like, I'd get all this 135 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: backlash because it wasn't what people really needed in the world. 136 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: And so people developing software came up with an idea 137 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: of what if we put something out immediately to test out, 138 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: get feedback on, and then use that information to develop live. 139 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: As we continue to develop, we're continually putting it out there, 140 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: getting feedback and getting that cycle of putting it out 141 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: and getting feedback and learning. And I love that model, 142 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: and I was like, how could I use that in 143 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 2: my own life? So I started applying it to everything 144 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,479 Speaker 2: that I was doing, from meditation to learning to productivity. 145 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: And then I was like, oh, what if I used 146 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: it for writing? So what I would do is I 147 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: would test out ideas. Blog posts would actually be the 148 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: first iteration, so I'd be like, Okay, I want to 149 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: write about you know, at one point it was like 150 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: Haiku productivity, like really constraining myself to be more effective 151 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: like Haiku writers do. And so I wrote a blog 152 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 2: post about it, and it like resonated with people. So 153 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: by putting something that was really easy for me to 154 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 2: write out into the world, I could see if there 155 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: was any kind of resonance with it, or if people 156 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: had some you know, you know feedback that was negative, 157 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: or maybe they just didn't care about it. So blog 158 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: posts were ways for me to test that out, and 159 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: then I would take their feedback and then I would 160 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: develop something even more from that. So maybe a series 161 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: of posts, maybe it was a mini ebook that I 162 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: would give to, you know, a couple dozen people, and 163 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 2: then I would develop a book from that. And then 164 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: I came up with the idea of developing the book 165 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: live with people. And so what I did was I 166 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: would get a group of people, maybe twenty people, and 167 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: they would sign up as my like beta testers for 168 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: my book, and so I would write stuff for them 169 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: and then let them test it out in their lives 170 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: and actually put into action so they had some action 171 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: steps to take after reading it, and then they would 172 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: tell me, like how it went. They would give me 173 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: the feedback, and I would take that information and use 174 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: it to write the next chapter. In the next chapter, 175 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: and then I would take all the information as they 176 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: were going through it to write the next version of 177 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: all of those chapters, And so the book was constantly 178 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: evolving as people were giving me feedback, as they were like, oh, 179 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: this is something that was amazing that I really loved, 180 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 2: or like I would hear nothing about it and maybe 181 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: that was a sign, and I would ask them questions. 182 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: I would have them fill out form like surveys and 183 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: things like that, and I would also have some real 184 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: world results that I could speak to when I actually 185 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: put the book out into a larger group and say, hey, 186 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: these twenty people used this book and they got these results, 187 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: and so that might enroll people to like, Okay, I 188 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: want to try this out and really get going and 189 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: really put themselves into it because they've seen that there 190 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: are proven results. Or if I was getting some feedback 191 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 2: that people didn't really care or didn't weren't really into it, 192 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 2: I would drop the whole book project once in a while. 193 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: So this way, when the book finally came out, A 194 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 2: lot of writers will write a book in isolation for 195 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 2: a year or two and then they put it out 196 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: and they're like, I hope people actually like this. I 197 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: already knew if people would want to read this and 198 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: would actually put into action and if where the stumbling 199 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: blocks were and what they actually resonated with, because I've 200 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: been testing it as I wrote. And one of the 201 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: coolest experiments that I did just to finish this part 202 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: out is I would write live in public, so I 203 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 2: would you know. One day, I decided to write a 204 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 2: really short ebook, and I put a Google doc with 205 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: the title of the ebook, and then I shared that 206 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: doc publicly on Twitter and I said, come watch me 207 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: write this book and give me comments as I write it. 208 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: So I let people give comments as I was writing 209 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 2: the chapter, so it was like I was writing in public, 210 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: live on stage or something like that. They couldn't see 211 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: me personally, but they could see the writing. And that 212 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: was one of the most fun, like juiciest, most exciting 213 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: writing experiments I'd ever done, because it was like people 214 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: were commenting live like this is so cool or what 215 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: about this Leo, And so it was like a really 216 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 2: collaborative live thing where I had to be really present 217 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: in my writing and I couldn't just abandon it and 218 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: come back a month later because people were there watching. 219 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: So I actually wrote that book in like days, and 220 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: it was the most fun I'd ever have, and I'd 221 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: done several versions of that since then. 222 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: It's not like you wrote a lot about is simplicity 223 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: And I would love to know when you're trying to 224 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: simplify your own life and especially your work, what do 225 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: you do first? 226 00:12:54,160 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: Hmm? For me, simplicity again, this is such a an 227 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: amazing area to dive into. You could go really deep 228 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: with it, but for me, it's always it's like a 229 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: process of breathing where you expand and then contract. So 230 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: simplicity usually happens after you've expanded a little bit. So 231 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: if you were, for example, if you wanted to get 232 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: into a genre of reading a certain kind of books, 233 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: you know, like you say, like I want to read 234 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: all the mystery novels there are, right, So you might 235 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: start reading and expanding your library, and you'd have you 236 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: just like start ording a bunch of things online and 237 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 2: then you they call come in and after a while 238 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 2: you don't need to be as expensive, and so you 239 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: can start to simplify from there because you've decided like, Okay, 240 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: I've already explored the expansiveness and now I can cut 241 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: back a little bit. So it's it's that cultivating or 242 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: the it's the idea of winnowing down from the expansiveness. 243 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: So you know, in that example, I might just pick 244 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: the five novels that I couldn't live without, and those 245 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: are the ones that I want to keep in my library, 246 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: and the rest of them I go and sell. So 247 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: I think the mistake a lot of people make is 248 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: to think that this means like you're depriving yourself or 249 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: somehow you have to get rid of things that you love. 250 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: But this means, as you like explore and expand, and 251 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: then eventually, like when you realize this too much, I 252 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: didn't need to buy this many things, you start to 253 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: narrow it down to the things that actually add value 254 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: to your life, that you actually love, and then get 255 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: rid of all of the excess, and that really lightens 256 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: the load. It really means that you are down to 257 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: the things that you actually care about. But I still 258 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 2: recommend the expansive mode. When I get into something, I'll 259 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: usually order way too much, spend too much money, and 260 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: then and just really empower that, like it's totally okay 261 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: to go too big. And then eventually I start to 262 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: narrow it down and I realize what's actually essential. You 263 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: can't know what's essential until you've done the expense of exploration, 264 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: being curious, you know, that kind of stuff. But most 265 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 2: people do the expansiveness for a lot of their lives 266 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 2: and they don't they don't then narrow it down, so 267 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: you have to start to learn what actually matters. And 268 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: that's really the process after expansion is like taking a 269 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: look at all the stuff you've done, and can you 270 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: notice what's essential, what mattered most to you, what do 271 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: you care the most about, what is necessary and unnecessary? 272 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: And as you start to narrow things down, not just 273 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: like physical things, but you know, all the commitments in 274 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: your life, you know, all of the things that you 275 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: do during the day, all the apps on your phone, 276 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: all of your distractions versus the things that you actually 277 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: need to pay attention to. This is really asking that 278 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: question what matters to you? And most people don't like 279 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: to be confronted by that question because they don't know 280 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: the answer, and so they're like, I don't know what matters. 281 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: I'm just going to keep all of it because what 282 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: if it matters? And I got you know, the fear 283 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: is that I'm going to get rid of something that matters. 284 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: But asking that question really allows you to really check 285 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: into what your values are what you want the most 286 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: in the world and what you care about, and I 287 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: think it's such a beautiful exploration. 288 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: We will be back with Leo soon where he shares 289 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: the five key ways he thinks about to simplify his life. 290 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 291 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 292 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 293 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 294 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: through the interesting research findings. You can sign up for 295 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot code. That's how I Work dot co. 296 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: Now there are five key ways that you write about 297 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: to simplify your life. The first is around curating your day, 298 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: the second is about start living in full screen mode, 299 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: the third is having a weekly clearing ritual, the fourth 300 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: is eat simple foods and move, and the fifth is 301 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: slow down and enjoy. So I was really intrigued about 302 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: this idea of living in full screen mode. Can you 303 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: tell me what you mean by that? 304 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is something So I like to write in 305 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 2: really simple writing apps that can go full screen and 306 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 2: all you see is the text that you're writing. You know, 307 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: one of the first ones that I used was called 308 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: om writer and omm writer, and it was just this 309 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 2: like beautiful like nature background and some music playing and 310 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: then your text and that was it. And there's some 311 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 2: other amazing ones as well, And so I realized that's 312 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: how I like to write, without a whole bunch of 313 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: other things calling for my attention, just really fully being there. 314 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 2: And then I realized, oh, it's so much like meditation, 315 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: where you were just you know, letting everything else in 316 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: the world go, and you're just sitting there really just 317 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 2: being fully present without constantly switching to a bunch of 318 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: different tasks at the same time. And I realized that 319 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: a lot of the things I like to do were 320 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: full screen mode, Like, for example, if I was going 321 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: to read on a device, I like to just I 322 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: like to close everything else out and just have the 323 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: book open so that it was you know, the Kindle 324 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: is a great example of that. It's such a single 325 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: tasking app or device that that's all there is, you know, 326 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: And I really hate it when things pop up and 327 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: like ask you to buy something when you're trying to read. 328 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: And so I was like, oh, what if I could 329 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: live my whole life like this on full screen mode? 330 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: What if everything I do on the computer, for example, 331 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: was like one thing at a time, full screen and 332 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 2: just really giving my full attention to that. It's not 333 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: always possible, but that's that's what I It's kind of 334 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 2: an ideal to move towards. And then I was like, 335 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 2: what if not just my computer, but everything that I 336 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: did was like that. If I decided to, you know, 337 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 2: have a conversation with someone, I would turn my phone 338 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 2: off or put or put it down so I couldn't 339 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: see it and really just be there with them as 340 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: if they were on full screen mode in my attention, 341 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 2: or exercise instead of like being on my phone while 342 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: I'm exercising. What if it was just the exercise or 343 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,479 Speaker 2: a cup of tea or a meal. What if I 344 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: was just eating rather than you know, checking social media 345 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: while I was while I was eating. And I just 346 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: really love that idea that the same thing that I 347 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: like to do with writing and reading could be done 348 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 2: with anything that I You know, it's one thing at 349 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: a time, anything that you wanted to do was just 350 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 2: this one thing, and man, if you do try it, 351 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 2: it really transforms the way that you live your life. 352 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 2: We're so we're so fractured, these days, and I'm not 353 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: saying that's necessarily a problem, but for me, there's such 354 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 2: such a peace of mind that comes with the simplicity 355 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:58,959 Speaker 2: of that. 356 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: It's interesting. I mean, so many people try to be 357 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: more present, which is a really hard thing to achieve, 358 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: but I love the idea of expressing that as living 359 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: in full screen mode. It somehow makes it more tangible, 360 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: which I really love. Now I want to dig into 361 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: the weekly clearing ritual. Can you tell me what that involves? 362 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I don't know if you've ever have ever 363 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: tried GTD Getting Things Done by David Allen. 364 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: I've tried it halfheartedly. Yes. 365 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: Well, I was a full on convert a zealot in 366 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: when I first started a zen habit, so like around 367 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: two thousand and seven and eight, I was just like, 368 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 2: oh man, this is the thing, and it was there 369 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 2: was a lot of really good things about it, but 370 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: it was too complex for me. After a while, I 371 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: kept falling off of it. And so that's where that's 372 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 2: one of my simplifying things is that I like, what's 373 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 2: the thing about this that I really got the most 374 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: out of it? And one of the things was some 375 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: kind of weekly ritual where you kind of cleared out 376 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 2: your inboxes, you got everything organized. He called it the 377 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: weekly review, and I like that idea a lot. But 378 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: then I was like, what if I could clear out 379 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: my desks, clear out my you know, physical papers, clear 380 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: out my email inbox, clear out my you know down 381 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: loads folder, and my desktop on my computer, really just 382 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: you know, clear you know, all the tabs of my 383 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: browser that are always open. What if I narrow you know, 384 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: like somehow save them or put them into the right 385 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: buckets so that at least once a week I would 386 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 2: have everything cleared. Now, I'll admit, I'll be the first 387 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 2: admit I don't always do that, but when I do, 388 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: it's just so such a relief. And when I don't 389 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 2: do it for a couple of weeks, I really feel 390 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: the build up of that. I think that's something that 391 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: is just running in the background for most of us, 392 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 2: is just the build up of all of this stuff 393 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: that we have to do that we are like kind 394 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: of have as this these pending notifications in our mind 395 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: kind of so like, for an example, people use clutter 396 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: in their lives as reminders, you know, all the bills 397 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: that they might have on their kitchen table or their 398 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 2: dining table might be because they didn't want to forget 399 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 2: to pay those bills, and you might have, you know 400 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: a lot of things around your house that are just 401 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: there because you're afraid of forgetting stuff. And so what 402 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: it means is that we go through our whole lives 403 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 2: on our computers, on our phones, on you know, our 404 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 2: physical world around us with all of these reminders of 405 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: all the things that we have to do, and think 406 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 2: about how hard that is to run on full screen 407 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: mode when that's basically it's like trying to read a 408 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: kindle and a whole bunch of notifications are going off, 409 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: like don't forget to pay your bills, don't forget to 410 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 2: call Manda, you know, like it's all of these things 411 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: are constantly calling for our attention and it's just training. 412 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 2: So no wonder why we're all exhausted because there's so 413 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: much that's training about this, And so a weekly clearing 414 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: ritual is like, what if I could clear all of 415 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 2: that and have one moment of clearing where you were 416 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 2: just completely free of that, and then you know it's 417 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: going to build up during the week. But it's almost 418 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: like you know, clearing cleaning your pool, like running the 419 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: pool filter. If you have a pool, you know, you 420 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: need to run that every now and then so that 421 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: things get cleared out and you don't have a bunch 422 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: of gunk that's going to clog up the whole pool. 423 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 2: If you don't do that thing, what happens is that 424 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: the pool starts to really get like moldy and like disgusting. 425 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: So I'm not trying to say that our lives are disgusting, 426 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 2: but like that's kind of the idea, is clear it out. 427 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: I love that now you've mentioned that you are doing 428 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: quite a bit of one on one, which I think 429 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: for you normally used to be via video call, but recently, 430 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: am I right in saying that you're now mostly doing 431 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: those as audio calls? 432 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: That's right? 433 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah? 434 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 2: Why is that? Oh man? You know, during the pandemic, 435 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people started there's this idea 436 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: of Zoom fatigue. We're on Zoom so much working from home, 437 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 2: doing all these meetings, family calls, And what it turned 438 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 2: out was not only was I doing one on one 439 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: coaching calls through Zoom Video, I was doing group coaching 440 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: calls and webinars and calls like this with other people 441 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: who I was collaborating with calls with my team, calls 442 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: with family, all on video, and I was I found myself, 443 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: first of all, sitting in front of the computer all 444 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: day because I had to do all these calls, getting 445 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: so exhausted by the end of the day and not moving, 446 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: like my step count was really low, and I was 447 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: just disconnected from the outside world. And I decided this 448 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 2: is not just me. I found other people who were 449 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: doing this, and I decided to get inspired by them 450 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: and change all of my calls for the most part, 451 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 2: to audio, especially the one on one calls, so that 452 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 2: I could go out for a walk. And now I 453 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: go out into the park. I go to this place 454 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: where there's like a graveyard, and I see a coyote 455 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: and a bunch of turkeys and hawks, and I feel 456 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 2: much more like I'm moving through three D space rather 457 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 2: than sitting and staring at a flat screen. And so 458 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 2: you lose the face to face kind of video thing. 459 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: And I think once in a while it's useful to 460 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: have that. But there's something intimate about being You know 461 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: this as someone who does a podcast, and I'm sure 462 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts being in someone's ear pods, air 463 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 2: pods or earbuds. You are in their head and there's 464 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: an intimacy to these kinds of calls where I can 465 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 2: hear them right in the middle of my head space. 466 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: And there's another thing that's really interesting about that, besides 467 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: the fact that I'll get like step counts of like 468 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: twenty thousand to thirty thousand some days, is that I'm 469 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: losing weight. I'm much more lean and active. But also 470 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: the calls themselves become tied to my moving through three 471 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: D space, so I could actually recall the calls better, 472 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: the conversation's better. Whether it's a call with a friend 473 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: or a family member, or a coaching client or a 474 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: team member, I am moving through space, and as I 475 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: passed a turkey, that's what happened. I can recall what 476 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: happened on that call, As I passed this oak tree 477 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 2: or this you know, this set of houses, what was 478 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: going on in the conversation. So I actually recall the 479 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 2: calls a lot better than when I was sitting in 480 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: from my computer and everything just blurs together. I actually 481 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 2: think that's what happening for a lot of us who 482 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: work this way, is that our days are blurring together 483 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: and they're just all the same, and we don't we 484 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 2: don't have a good sense of the passage of time. 485 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: So as I move through the outdoor world doing my work, 486 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: you know, I mix it in with the indoor work 487 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 2: as well, but as I move through, it's a much 488 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: richer sense of time, and there's a lot more like 489 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 2: sensual text like textual details, so that I am feeling 490 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: just more connection to not only what you know the 491 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: outside world, but to the things that I am doing 492 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 2: during the day. 493 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: Leo, It's been amazing to chat to you after reading 494 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: your words for many, many years and just getting so 495 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: much inspiration and practical tips from zen Habits. So for 496 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: people that want to consume more of what you're putting 497 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: out into the world, what is the best way for 498 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: people to do that. 499 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 2: Definitely my website, my blog zenhabits dot net is the 500 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: main place, and there what I would recommend as you 501 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 2: sign up for the email newsletter that's there, because not 502 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 2: only do I put my blog posts into that email newsletter, 503 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: but I also send out another extra email each week 504 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 2: with some thoughts and ways to bring mindfulness and productivity 505 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 2: and focus to your life. So that's where I would go. 506 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: And you know, I'm also somewhat active on Twitter, not really. 507 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: I'm not on Instagram, I'm not really on Facebook too much. 508 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: But I do have a membership program called The Fearless 509 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 2: Living Academy that I highly recommend people check out if 510 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: you want to go deeper with me after you've checked 511 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 2: out the website and in there, we talk about how 512 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: to create habits, how to find purpose, and then how 513 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: to actually take that purpose and create impact in the 514 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: world by facing all of our fears is an uncertainty 515 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: and working with that mindfully. 516 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: One of the things that's stuck with me from my 517 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: chat with Leo is the idea of living life in 518 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: full screen mode. I find this much more useful and 519 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: visceral advice than people telling me to be present and mindful, which, 520 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: to be honest, where is a bit thin after a while, 521 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: But living life in full screen is something that really 522 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: resonates with me because I always try to work in 523 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: full screen mode at my computer with the software that 524 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: I'm using, and so transferring this habit into my outside 525 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: of computer life feels like a really concrete thing to 526 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: strive for. How I work is produced by Inventing with 527 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this 528 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: episode was Liam Riordan, and thank you to Matt Nimba 529 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: who does the audio mix for every episode and makes 530 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: everything sound so much better than it would have otherwise. 531 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: See you next time.