WEBVTT - Kirby Bentley - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.080 Aboriginal Enta stradi under listeners or advised. This episode contains 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:08.039 stories of someone who is deceased, including the use of 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:17.200 their name. Ordinarily speaking, we walk in one world, but 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.120 in my view, I think we walk in three. Your world, 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:30.640 our world, and my worlds on time. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.080 Hello and welcome to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, I'm 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.080 Narrowly Meadows. Kirby Bentley is a genuine trailblazer the West. 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.320 Dozzie started her sporting career in netball before making the 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:54.120 transition to the newly formed AFLW for filling a lifelong dream. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:58.000 Now thirty five, she's recently been appointed as the senior 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.840 coach of the Western Bulldogs vfl W side, the first 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.600 Indigenous woman to hold such a role. Kirby wants to 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.720 use her standing to help change the narrative and empower 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.320 young girls challenging gender norms along the way, the memory 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.399 and strength of her Auntie Andrea with her every step 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.039 of the way. I ask you to listen to this 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:24.360 episode with an open heart as we discuss some uncomfortable truths. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.600 Sharing stories helps us understand each other better, and Kirby 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:33.120 has an incredible story to tell. Please know this episode 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.720 contains a graphic conversation around violence. If it's triggering, there 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.360 is help out there. One eight hundred, Respect Beyond Blue, 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.360 dot org dot AU or Lifeline one three double one 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.360 one four are just a couple of places you can go. 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:53.000 We caught up in Melbourne just before the WA border reopened. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:02:10.440 I hope you enjoyed the chat. 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:16.520 Kervy, thank you so much for doing this. I really 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.200 appreciate it. Tell me what it means to you to 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:21.560 be a NOMA woman. 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:27.520 Well, I'm proud first of all. So growing up in Australia, 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:32.000 in Western Australian, in Country Australia, in Country w A especially, 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.560 it was always hard, hard in the sense of racism 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.760 and discrimination. So for me to be an Aboriginal and 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.360 to be proud is a powerful thing. So, you know, 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.080 First Nations and one of the oldest living cultures in 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.959 the world is huge and it's undervalued. I think. 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.480 Tell me about what it was like growing up. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:03.400 So yeah, country country is really black and white and 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.760 it feels like it's still set in the seventies. So 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.239 if you look at a lot of our country families, 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.119 their farmers and they tend to stay there. And it's 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.920 the generation that takes over the next and that flow 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.440 on effect and we learn what our elders teach us. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:25.399 So if my mum and dad taught me to show disrespect, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.480 then that's how I would be to anyone and everyone, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.480 because that's what I know and understand. So if they 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.560 teach me to be respectful or to show courtesy or 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.080 loyalty or whatever that looks like, and then that's the 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.400 same thing. So in my head, from my experiences, a 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.640 lot of those people who are still in the country 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.560 that I grew up with, their generation above them and 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.320 above that have all stayed there and have all been 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.640 told and learned the same thing. So when you hear 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:01.880 racist comments or anything derogatory or discriminate, it's yeah, it's 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:02.920 come or stem from that. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.960 I think. Did you hear that growing up? 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.000 Yep? Yep. I think the first time I heard it, 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.400 there were two of my cousins which I call my 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.240 cousins but were not blood related. But there were few 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.080 Aboriginal people in our town, but it was just that 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.360 it was Aboriginal and white people and they were in 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.240 the school yard. This is primary school, so I would 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.640 have been maybe year four or five, not very old, 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.960 and my best friends. They were all white and all 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.880 boys as well, and I remember watching my two cousins 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.440 scuffle with two white boys and two of my best 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.760 friends I've known since three four started using the word 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.080 bung and kone l like I don't worry about the colonel, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.800 And it shocked me because I'd never heard it from 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.039 their mouth in my life. And as I said before, 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.719 the first time hearing that that's obviously come from their parents, 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.200 and that's a hard thing, I guess to hear from anyone. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.119 But I remember snapping my head at them and just saying, 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.120 what the hell, like, why are you saying that? I'm 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:06.520 not you, just them. That's obviously they're categorizing us as 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.080 aboriginals are this, and that's their perception in a negative way, 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.520 so of course it's going to be offensive. And that 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.520 was probably the first time. And I remember going home to 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.680 Mum and Dad and saying the same thing, and they 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.600 just said, make sure you tell them that that's not okay. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.160 So and I'm glad that I pulled them up on 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.239 that day. But I've never heard them say it ever again. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.479 That's not to say that they've never used that language 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.880 ever again, but yeah, they've never used it in front 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:30.360 of me again. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:32.839 Do you remember how that moment made you feel? 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.720 Yeah, Well, like I was a pretty naive young kid. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.040 This is probably put it into perspective. I thought Australia 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.080 was the world. I thought that the accents on TV 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:51.159 American asient whatever accents I didn't understand. I thought that 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.480 was all for TV. So that's how naive I was. 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.440 So yeah, when that was said to me, knowing that 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:02.159 I've grown up with these boys, like these are my kids, 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.440 where we've grown up forever together, and to hear that 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:10.359 is just, yeah, you don't really want to feel like 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.760 that shame about your own culture, because that's all I understood. 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.440 So I knew that I was Aboriginal, but I didn't 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.760 know what that meant, if that makes any sense. So 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.640 for me to say that I'm proud to be who 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.160 I am now, it's because I now understand what our 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.799 culture is and who I am and where that bloodline 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:31.640 flows on from. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.520 You talk about shame and you talk about pride. How 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.640 long did it take to make that transition from one 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:39.159 to the other. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:47.280 I think my whole childhood in regards to growing up 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.040 in Mount Barker, it was really hard to not feel 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.000 the shame factor and trying to show how proud you 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.760 are of who you are and who your family and 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.279 your bloodlines are because the perception and you go to 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.680 school and you're outnumbered. So most times in my year, 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.240 I was probably the only original person. Another two years older, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.880 there was another cousin, and then my sisters were two 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.400 years younger and two years younger again, so there weren't 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.640 many of us all the time, but when there were 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.560 there were still we were still way out numbered to 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.360 be able to fight that battle or to know how 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:24.960 to as well. 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.360 When did you get to a point where you went, Yeah, 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.160 I'm proud and I'm here and I'm unapologetic. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.280 So it's funny you asked. I was voted in his 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.640 head Girl, which is random because I was a tomboy 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.360 at school and I was friends with everyone. I thought 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.640 I was friends with everyone and got along and I 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.200 was cheeky, So I guess that's how that vote kind 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.400 of came in because I was able to bring people together. 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.280 All of my school friends, as I said, they were farmers, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.800 so they had money in ours, they had money. We 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:59.360 didn't really have money. So Mum had this red falcon 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.520 ex I think it was called and it broke down. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.560 So we had a prefect meeting and there were twelve 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.840 of us, and all of my school friends had all 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.560 these flash cars, and I just remember our car not 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:13.840 starting and I was in the passenger seat and I 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.760 slid down in a physical act, and it was my 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.720 dad blew up at me. So it was Dad took 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.360 me down to the school and he said, don't you 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.480 ever do that ever again. Don't ever feel like you 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.800 have to be shame about anything. This is what we 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.680 have and this is what it is. And it was 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.640 probably from that moment that I then realized that if 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:37.280 I had New Balance and somebody had nikes on it, 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.439 it was only because that was what we were able 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:44.560 to have. So I think I started to shift the 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.520 way that I thought about things. Then. Obviously you're young 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.120 and you're immature, and you don't fully grasp it, but 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.040 I think that was probably the turning point. If I 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.640 reflect on it, you were just. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.559 Ahead of your time. Because New Balance is big now. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:01.440 Steve Smith brought it back in a big how much 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.640 does it drive you representation? 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.600 It's huge because it's still it's still so it's happening 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.720 so much in today's world and we're in two thousand 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.920 and twenty two. So when you look at it, like 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.560 even from a sexism stance, female and male and the 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:23.160 equality of that, even that's a fair bit behind. And 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.240 when it comes to being our Aboriginal in Australia, our 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.920 battles are still what they are. They're a little more 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.120 spoken about and people are a little bit more educated, 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:38.080 but not fully and to be able to have those open, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.840 honest conversations in regards to just creating a conversation, not 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.040 knowing what is offensive and what isn't, we're still not 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.560 able to do that. That's huge for change and for 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:53.760 growth and for moving forward for both Aboriginals and Australians 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.360 in general. Regardless of what your bloodline is, So even 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.080 if you're an Asian Australia or Chinese Australian or a 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.439 French Australian, whatever that is so for me that's invaluable, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.760 but that's still a long way away. So do you like. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.920 People coming up and asking the uncomfortable questions? 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.880 So yeah, I would prefer that any day. I would 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.120 prefer them to say I don't know how to ask this, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.080 but this is what I want to understand. And I 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.200 would either correct them and to say, yes, this is 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.880 offensive because of this, and I'd explain it because it's 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.120 important that they understand why it is so. Abbo and 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.800 kone and all those words are offensive because it was 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.240 used in a derogative way that we that were trying 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.880 to offend us or put us in a certain box 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.880 and make us feel small. When somebody, for example, has 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.679 brought up why can't we say abbo because we shorten everything. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.280 That's an ouzzy thing to do, but not a part 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:53.520 of our history in culture and creating that change, that's 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.400 not okay. So explaining that and for people to hear 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.400 that and then share that with other people they're having 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.640 conversations with when Aboriginals aren't around is a very important 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.400 thing and impactful. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:11.440 You mentioned before sexism and being a woman, and in 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.040 so many industries that still exists when those two crossover, 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.120 and you are an indigenous woman, how challenging has it 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:19.080 been for you? 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.240 If we look on a scale, I guess of where 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.960 people sit, So we've got the white male at the top, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.640 and then probably the white female, and then every other 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.560 culture kind of fits in the middle, and then the 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:37.240 Aboriginal woman is at the bottom. So when we look 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.320 at anything to do with our health or help or 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.600 our needs and what it is that we need for 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.839 us to be better in our lives. In families, we 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.240 hold the responsibility of making sure everything stays together. So 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:56.440 we're the glue where everything and our matriarch, they're the 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.240 ones we always go to, but they're the ones that 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.280 always copy it and take all all the brunt of things. So, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.680 as an Aboriginal woman in Australia and as a woman 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.920 in general, so we would have the same battles and 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.280 challenges in regards to our workplace, but then it'll be 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.480 on a different level when it comes to something else. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.960 So if an opportunity comes up, you're more than likely 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.120 to get that step forward because it's easier for them 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.240 to help you than it is to help me. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.559 How tough is that to live with and not overcome 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.160 but work through? Knowing that those are the kind of 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.240 challenges that you're confronted by every day. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.760 Well, yeah, it's definitely difficult. That sense of belonging that 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.079 I never really feel like I have, if that makes sense. 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.000 So if you go into a workplace, you're going in guarded. 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:46.720 So it's kind of like when we walk down a street, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:48.800 just as a woman in general, we walk down the 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.160 street at night time, We've just got to be aware 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.120 of our surroundings, look around. That's just trying to put 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.440 that into perspective. When you go into any workplace, you 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.000 kind of have to know one under stand what that person, who, 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.920 that is, where they fit with you, and trying to 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.959 figure out how you fit with them to then know 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.160 what kind of guard you hold up and what you 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.319 let down to then know that it's going to be 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.280 okay or I've got to be careful here. 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.679 Is it rare to feel safe? And I don't mean 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.800 safe necessarily in a physical sense, but just feeling, like 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.920 you say, belonging accepted. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.160 Yeah, yeah, yes, I think so. Bulldogs is probably the 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:32.160 first time I've genuinely felt like I do belong in 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.720 the sense that I'm well supported and they believe in 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.360 my ability and what I bring. And that's from a 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.120 football stance, but that's obviously empowering as an Aboriginal person, 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:44.680 but also as an Aboriginal woman. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.480 The analogy that I use for sort of what you 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.640 described about, you know, being a woman and walking down 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.600 the street and stuff like that. The footy analogy is 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.800 we talk about perceived pressure and pressure raps, and it's 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.480 not necessarily the actual statistics, but the corralling and the 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.760 you know, feeling under pressure, and that makes it draws 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.400 you into the mistake or the error. And that's kind 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.840 of for me how it feels when other people don't 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.640 necessarily see it happening, but you feel it happening to yourself. 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.400 Yeah, one hundred percent, like you know straight away. And 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.319 women can see it as well, and they can sense 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.160 like we've got a pretty good intuition naturally as women, 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.880 because we're always having to be two steps ahead. And 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.760 I explained this at work. So I was in construction 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.360 tunneling doing some rigging work, only female worker amongst all 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.800 one hundred men, and a superintendent was talking to me, Oh, 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.480 how do you find it? And everything else is said. 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.240 I feel like I'm always having to do everything well 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.120 above and beyond what is supposed to be done, because 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.360 the one time that I don't do it quite right, 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.560 I don't belong here. But men can kind of not 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.000 do it nine times out of ten, and that one 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.360 time they get it right. Yeah, yeah, they've got the job. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.160 They're good for this role. And it's such a different 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.080 perception and world to live in. But that's the reality 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.840 of it. And he never ever thought of that because 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.880 obviously he has he's not a woman, and he's never 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.400 been in those shoes because he's always had opportunities given. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:21.080 He's either said yes, I am capable, even if he's not, 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.320 and he's gone and done it and then learn just 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.440 off the cuff of it. So for us, we don't 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.000 really say yes unless we know that we can do 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.320 more than And it's a really interesting way of looking 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.880 at it, but that's us keeping ourselves safe. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.400 Tell me a little bit about your parents and what 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:39.000 they were like. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.440 They were, Yeah, they were good. So Mum and Dad 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.280 both always they always said to me, kids have to 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.600 stay in a kids place. And I think that's why 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.320 I was so naive. I thought, obviously Astoria was the world, 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.560 so that that wasn't true. So I was able to 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:57.800 live and have that fun outside style of living in 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.400 a country, so playing football, doing whatever that looks like. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.480 So I wasn't really allowed to be around adults. Bedtime 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.120 was always at seven, home and away. If they were 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.440 kissing or anything on there, I wasn't allowed to watch it. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.360 It was just it was crazy and I was back 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.880 and you kind of go, what was going on there? 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.240 Kids are watching worse Now. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.240 I wasn't allowed to watch over and away, but. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.120 It must have been the generation of them and they 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:23.880 must have all talked about it too, So I don't 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.880 think most of us were allowed to because they did that, 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.080 and for me being naive, I was experiencing things for 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.840 the first time and only being educated when I needed 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.800 to know. So I was twelve when I first got 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.240 my period, so before that I didn't even know that 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:41.960 even happens. 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:43.080 Wow. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.840 So when I used to do karate, I went up 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.160 to Perth for a grading, so Dad always drove me 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.480 up because I've got two younger sisters so that always 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.360 stay in Mount Barker to go to school. So Dad 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.920 would drive up four hours. This time I remember it happening. 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.280 I thought something was wrong with me. I said to Dad, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.000 I said, something's wrong. We need to go to the hospital. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:04.959 And he didn't know how to have the conversation with 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:10.280 me because Aboriginal men don't really that's not their area, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.640 so they just wears mum. So Mum wasn't with us, 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.679 so nan I remember her sitting on the bed and 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.800 I was laying because I was a tomboy nickname was Billy, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.520 and I had no idea what the hell was going 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.240 on with me, So hands behind my head, like pretty 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.480 pissed off about it, and it's going what the hell? 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.080 And Nan was trying to explain, you know when you 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.200 become a young woman, and I was like, I don't 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.440 want to be that pissed ohole, Like I was so angry, 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:39.920 and then when it left, I was like, oh, it's done, 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.119 so just one time. Two weeks later, I had a 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.359 netball kind of the same thing in Perth, but it 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.159 was worse. But I also wasn't prepared for it, so 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.119 it was probably it was the most embarrassing thing, but 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.760 most unspoken thing. On top of having women like female 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.840 coaches and older players around me and not being able 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:03.399 to pull me aside and help me understand that, I 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.359 was kind of left alone with it. And as embarrassing 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.560 as it was for me, I could see people looking 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.639 on reflection, I could see people looking at me, and 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.080 it was on a need to know basis, so I 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.440 only need to know about my period when it happened. 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.760 So sometimes staying in a kid's place was very beneficial 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.680 not understanding you know, some of the things that happen 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:31.560 in adult lives, but in those circumstances, yeah, you need 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.040 to know those things. So it was good in that 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.159 sense that they did keep me in a kid's place, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.280 But yeah, I wish that they were one step ahead 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.120 and educating and the reasons why and so we can 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.920 ask questions and not feel that shame factor, because yeah, 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:49.840 I just didn't know what was going on. So even 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:53.120 without rest, I was remember standing in the shower trying 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:54.720 to push him back in because I wanted to play 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.960 afl with the West Coast Eagles, So I just didn't 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.480 know what was happening. Yeah, I'm trying to explain it, 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.160 and I think I was selective hearing and just I'll 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:06.800 still Adam and I was going to play football for 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.800 with Ben Cousins and we're a punda. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:15.439 So I mean that in itself is it's so telling 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.280 of how much has changed in the last few years 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.760 now that there is AFLW and you end up playing 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.680 in the afl W as well, but also gender identity 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.480 and all of those things. And we've seen, you know, 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.919 Darcy Vessio recently come out as non binary, and that 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.000 sounds like it was a really challenging time or confusing 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:36.160 time in your life. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.240 Is that fair? Yeah? Well, so I'm a visual person 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.960 and if I don't see different, I don't understand it. 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.439 It wasn't until I was in Perth again, but I 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.480 was playing no shirt on hat backwards as Billy the kid, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.040 football in hand all day with these two brothers kicking 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.240 and everything else. So Kirby is not exactly Charlotte, so 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.359 it's not noticeable that I'm a girl either, and I 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.160 look like a act like a boy. End of the day, 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.879 we're drinking around the side of the house and one 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:07.639 of the brothers. I don't know, boys can probably explain 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.199 this or men or why they would do this, but 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.560 one of the brothers pulled open their shorts and showed 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:16.160 me their little peanuts and same age, and I leaned 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.560 over and I was shocked. I was like, what the fuck? 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.520 What is that? What is happening? They're like and the 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.920 other brother did it, and they're like Charles Joel's curb, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.080 and I just started feeling because I was I was 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.320 probably like eight or nine, and I was like, I 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.040 don't have one, and I just remember grabbing my shirt 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.399 because the mom came, what are you boys doing? Like? 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.600 Go back outside and play? And I remember tacking my 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.920 shirt on, walking back all confused and looking at Dad 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.840 and they're looking at Mum and then watching the foot 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.679 he was on that night as well, and just really 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.680 tripping out what's going on? I knew that I was 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:51.800 a girl, I just didn't know what that looked like 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:53.400 from a visual point. 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:54.800 How do you feel about gender now? 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.280 It is what it is. If people feel a certain 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.240 way and they want to be who they were to 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.920 be or who they feel they are, then that's who 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.040 they are. You can't argue with that. I can't change 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.800 who you are. And it's just like it's like anything else. 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:09.680 Why should you. 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:17.720 Netball champion, footy gun now, footy coach, first Indigenous woman 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:22.320 to be a senior coach of a VFL or VFLW team. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.840 What is sport represented to you throughout your life? 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.800 I think sports what has kept me together. So I 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:34.639 had not broken English, but because I didn't understand the 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.000 school system and what it is that I needed to 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.760 learn and understand. It wasn't until like I played in 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.600 my first state team and it was bringing Bianco Franklin 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.440 to original girls and blackfellows you always want to kind 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:49.560 of draw to, and they're like my big sisters, So 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:51.879 I've always seen him in that way and they've always 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:53.800 looked at me in that way as well, which is 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.280 a powerful thing, and it's a great thing as a 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.560 young original girl and a younger girl coming from Mount 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.080 Baker to step into a team that has that. But 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.840 I think in my first two state teams, because it 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.320 pretty much stayed the same players for those two years, 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:12.440 I don't think I ever spoke, and because I didn't 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.639