Speaker 1: Aboriginal Enta stradi under listeners or advised. This episode contains
Speaker 1: stories of someone who is deceased, including the use of
Speaker 1: their name. Ordinarily speaking, we walk in one world, but
Speaker 1: in my view, I think we walk in three. Your world,
Speaker 1: our world, and my worlds on time.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, I'm
Speaker 2: Narrowly Meadows. Kirby Bentley is a genuine trailblazer the West.
Speaker 2: Dozzie started her sporting career in netball before making the
Speaker 2: transition to the newly formed AFLW for filling a lifelong dream.
Speaker 2: Now thirty five, she's recently been appointed as the senior
Speaker 2: coach of the Western Bulldogs vfl W side, the first
Speaker 2: Indigenous woman to hold such a role. Kirby wants to
Speaker 2: use her standing to help change the narrative and empower
Speaker 2: young girls challenging gender norms along the way, the memory
Speaker 2: and strength of her Auntie Andrea with her every step
Speaker 2: of the way. I ask you to listen to this
Speaker 2: episode with an open heart as we discuss some uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 2: Sharing stories helps us understand each other better, and Kirby
Speaker 2: has an incredible story to tell. Please know this episode
Speaker 2: contains a graphic conversation around violence. If it's triggering, there
Speaker 2: is help out there. One eight hundred, Respect Beyond Blue,
Speaker 2: dot org dot AU or Lifeline one three double one
Speaker 2: one four are just a couple of places you can go.
Speaker 2: We caught up in Melbourne just before the WA border reopened.
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed the chat.
Speaker 2: Kervy, thank you so much for doing this. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Tell me what it means to you to
Speaker 2: be a NOMA woman.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm proud first of all. So growing up in Australia,
Speaker 1: in Western Australian, in Country Australia, in Country w A especially,
Speaker 1: it was always hard, hard in the sense of racism
Speaker 1: and discrimination. So for me to be an Aboriginal and
Speaker 1: to be proud is a powerful thing. So, you know,
Speaker 1: First Nations and one of the oldest living cultures in
Speaker 1: the world is huge and it's undervalued. I think.
Speaker 2: Tell me about what it was like growing up.
Speaker 1: So yeah, country country is really black and white and
Speaker 1: it feels like it's still set in the seventies. So
Speaker 1: if you look at a lot of our country families,
Speaker 1: their farmers and they tend to stay there. And it's
Speaker 1: the generation that takes over the next and that flow
Speaker 1: on effect and we learn what our elders teach us.
Speaker 1: So if my mum and dad taught me to show disrespect,
Speaker 1: then that's how I would be to anyone and everyone,
Speaker 1: because that's what I know and understand. So if they
Speaker 1: teach me to be respectful or to show courtesy or
Speaker 1: loyalty or whatever that looks like, and then that's the
Speaker 1: same thing. So in my head, from my experiences, a
Speaker 1: lot of those people who are still in the country
Speaker 1: that I grew up with, their generation above them and
Speaker 1: above that have all stayed there and have all been
Speaker 1: told and learned the same thing. So when you hear
Speaker 1: racist comments or anything derogatory or discriminate, it's yeah, it's
Speaker 1: come or stem from that.
Speaker 2: I think. Did you hear that growing up?
Speaker 1: Yep? Yep. I think the first time I heard it,
Speaker 1: there were two of my cousins which I call my
Speaker 1: cousins but were not blood related. But there were few
Speaker 1: Aboriginal people in our town, but it was just that
Speaker 1: it was Aboriginal and white people and they were in
Speaker 1: the school yard. This is primary school, so I would
Speaker 1: have been maybe year four or five, not very old,
Speaker 1: and my best friends. They were all white and all
Speaker 1: boys as well, and I remember watching my two cousins
Speaker 1: scuffle with two white boys and two of my best
Speaker 1: friends I've known since three four started using the word
Speaker 1: bung and kone l like I don't worry about the colonel,
Speaker 1: And it shocked me because I'd never heard it from
Speaker 1: their mouth in my life. And as I said before,
Speaker 1: the first time hearing that that's obviously come from their parents,
Speaker 1: and that's a hard thing, I guess to hear from anyone.
Speaker 1: But I remember snapping my head at them and just saying,
Speaker 1: what the hell, like, why are you saying that? I'm
Speaker 1: not you, just them. That's obviously they're categorizing us as
Speaker 1: aboriginals are this, and that's their perception in a negative way,
Speaker 1: so of course it's going to be offensive. And that
Speaker 1: was probably the first time. And I remember going home to
Speaker 1: Mum and Dad and saying the same thing, and they
Speaker 1: just said, make sure you tell them that that's not okay.
Speaker 1: So and I'm glad that I pulled them up on
Speaker 1: that day. But I've never heard them say it ever again.
Speaker 1: That's not to say that they've never used that language
Speaker 1: ever again, but yeah, they've never used it in front
Speaker 1: of me again.
Speaker 2: Do you remember how that moment made you feel?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, like I was a pretty naive young kid.
Speaker 1: This is probably put it into perspective. I thought Australia
Speaker 1: was the world. I thought that the accents on TV
Speaker 1: American asient whatever accents I didn't understand. I thought that
Speaker 1: was all for TV. So that's how naive I was.
Speaker 1: So yeah, when that was said to me, knowing that
Speaker 1: I've grown up with these boys, like these are my kids,
Speaker 1: where we've grown up forever together, and to hear that
Speaker 1: is just, yeah, you don't really want to feel like
Speaker 1: that shame about your own culture, because that's all I understood.
Speaker 1: So I knew that I was Aboriginal, but I didn't
Speaker 1: know what that meant, if that makes any sense. So
Speaker 1: for me to say that I'm proud to be who
Speaker 1: I am now, it's because I now understand what our
Speaker 1: culture is and who I am and where that bloodline
Speaker 1: flows on from.
Speaker 2: You talk about shame and you talk about pride. How
Speaker 2: long did it take to make that transition from one
Speaker 2: to the other.
Speaker 1: I think my whole childhood in regards to growing up
Speaker 1: in Mount Barker, it was really hard to not feel
Speaker 1: the shame factor and trying to show how proud you
Speaker 1: are of who you are and who your family and
Speaker 1: your bloodlines are because the perception and you go to
Speaker 1: school and you're outnumbered. So most times in my year,
Speaker 1: I was probably the only original person. Another two years older,
Speaker 1: there was another cousin, and then my sisters were two
Speaker 1: years younger and two years younger again, so there weren't
Speaker 1: many of us all the time, but when there were
Speaker 1: there were still we were still way out numbered to
Speaker 1: be able to fight that battle or to know how
Speaker 1: to as well.
Speaker 2: When did you get to a point where you went, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm proud and I'm here and I'm unapologetic.
Speaker 1: So it's funny you asked. I was voted in his
Speaker 1: head Girl, which is random because I was a tomboy
Speaker 1: at school and I was friends with everyone. I thought
Speaker 1: I was friends with everyone and got along and I
Speaker 1: was cheeky, So I guess that's how that vote kind
Speaker 1: of came in because I was able to bring people together.
Speaker 1: All of my school friends, as I said, they were farmers,
Speaker 1: so they had money in ours, they had money. We
Speaker 1: didn't really have money. So Mum had this red falcon
Speaker 1: ex I think it was called and it broke down.
Speaker 1: So we had a prefect meeting and there were twelve
Speaker 1: of us, and all of my school friends had all
Speaker 1: these flash cars, and I just remember our car not
Speaker 1: starting and I was in the passenger seat and I
Speaker 1: slid down in a physical act, and it was my
Speaker 1: dad blew up at me. So it was Dad took
Speaker 1: me down to the school and he said, don't you
Speaker 1: ever do that ever again. Don't ever feel like you
Speaker 1: have to be shame about anything. This is what we
Speaker 1: have and this is what it is. And it was
Speaker 1: probably from that moment that I then realized that if
Speaker 1: I had New Balance and somebody had nikes on it,
Speaker 1: it was only because that was what we were able
Speaker 1: to have. So I think I started to shift the
Speaker 1: way that I thought about things. Then. Obviously you're young
Speaker 1: and you're immature, and you don't fully grasp it, but
Speaker 1: I think that was probably the turning point. If I
Speaker 1: reflect on it, you were just.
Speaker 2: Ahead of your time. Because New Balance is big now.
Speaker 2: Steve Smith brought it back in a big how much
Speaker 2: does it drive you representation?
Speaker 1: It's huge because it's still it's still so it's happening
Speaker 1: so much in today's world and we're in two thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty two. So when you look at it, like
Speaker 1: even from a sexism stance, female and male and the
Speaker 1: equality of that, even that's a fair bit behind. And
Speaker 1: when it comes to being our Aboriginal in Australia, our
Speaker 1: battles are still what they are. They're a little more
Speaker 1: spoken about and people are a little bit more educated,
Speaker 1: but not fully and to be able to have those open,
Speaker 1: honest conversations in regards to just creating a conversation, not
Speaker 1: knowing what is offensive and what isn't, we're still not
Speaker 1: able to do that. That's huge for change and for
Speaker 1: growth and for moving forward for both Aboriginals and Australians
Speaker 1: in general. Regardless of what your bloodline is, So even
Speaker 1: if you're an Asian Australia or Chinese Australian or a
Speaker 1: French Australian, whatever that is so for me that's invaluable,
Speaker 1: but that's still a long way away. So do you like.
Speaker 2: People coming up and asking the uncomfortable questions?
Speaker 1: So yeah, I would prefer that any day. I would
Speaker 1: prefer them to say I don't know how to ask this,
Speaker 1: but this is what I want to understand. And I
Speaker 1: would either correct them and to say, yes, this is
Speaker 1: offensive because of this, and I'd explain it because it's
Speaker 1: important that they understand why it is so. Abbo and
Speaker 1: kone and all those words are offensive because it was
Speaker 1: used in a derogative way that we that were trying
Speaker 1: to offend us or put us in a certain box
Speaker 1: and make us feel small. When somebody, for example, has
Speaker 1: brought up why can't we say abbo because we shorten everything.
Speaker 1: That's an ouzzy thing to do, but not a part
Speaker 1: of our history in culture and creating that change, that's
Speaker 1: not okay. So explaining that and for people to hear
Speaker 1: that and then share that with other people they're having
Speaker 1: conversations with when Aboriginals aren't around is a very important
Speaker 1: thing and impactful.
Speaker 2: You mentioned before sexism and being a woman, and in
Speaker 2: so many industries that still exists when those two crossover,
Speaker 2: and you are an indigenous woman, how challenging has it
Speaker 2: been for you?
Speaker 1: If we look on a scale, I guess of where
Speaker 1: people sit, So we've got the white male at the top,
Speaker 1: and then probably the white female, and then every other
Speaker 1: culture kind of fits in the middle, and then the
Speaker 1: Aboriginal woman is at the bottom. So when we look
Speaker 1: at anything to do with our health or help or
Speaker 1: our needs and what it is that we need for
Speaker 1: us to be better in our lives. In families, we
Speaker 1: hold the responsibility of making sure everything stays together. So
Speaker 1: we're the glue where everything and our matriarch, they're the
Speaker 1: ones we always go to, but they're the ones that
Speaker 1: always copy it and take all all the brunt of things. So,
Speaker 1: as an Aboriginal woman in Australia and as a woman
Speaker 1: in general, so we would have the same battles and
Speaker 1: challenges in regards to our workplace, but then it'll be
Speaker 1: on a different level when it comes to something else.
Speaker 1: So if an opportunity comes up, you're more than likely
Speaker 1: to get that step forward because it's easier for them
Speaker 1: to help you than it is to help me.
Speaker 2: How tough is that to live with and not overcome
Speaker 2: but work through? Knowing that those are the kind of
Speaker 2: challenges that you're confronted by every day.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's definitely difficult. That sense of belonging that
Speaker 1: I never really feel like I have, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So if you go into a workplace, you're going in guarded.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like when we walk down a street,
Speaker 1: just as a woman in general, we walk down the
Speaker 1: street at night time, We've just got to be aware
Speaker 1: of our surroundings, look around. That's just trying to put
Speaker 1: that into perspective. When you go into any workplace, you
Speaker 1: kind of have to know one under stand what that person, who,
Speaker 1: that is, where they fit with you, and trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how you fit with them to then know
Speaker 1: what kind of guard you hold up and what you
Speaker 1: let down to then know that it's going to be
Speaker 1: okay or I've got to be careful here.
Speaker 2: Is it rare to feel safe? And I don't mean
Speaker 2: safe necessarily in a physical sense, but just feeling, like
Speaker 2: you say, belonging accepted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, I think so. Bulldogs is probably the
Speaker 1: first time I've genuinely felt like I do belong in
Speaker 1: the sense that I'm well supported and they believe in
Speaker 1: my ability and what I bring. And that's from a
Speaker 1: football stance, but that's obviously empowering as an Aboriginal person,
Speaker 1: but also as an Aboriginal woman.
Speaker 2: The analogy that I use for sort of what you
Speaker 2: described about, you know, being a woman and walking down
Speaker 2: the street and stuff like that. The footy analogy is
Speaker 2: we talk about perceived pressure and pressure raps, and it's
Speaker 2: not necessarily the actual statistics, but the corralling and the
Speaker 2: you know, feeling under pressure, and that makes it draws
Speaker 2: you into the mistake or the error. And that's kind
Speaker 2: of for me how it feels when other people don't
Speaker 2: necessarily see it happening, but you feel it happening to yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, like you know straight away. And
Speaker 1: women can see it as well, and they can sense
Speaker 1: like we've got a pretty good intuition naturally as women,
Speaker 1: because we're always having to be two steps ahead. And
Speaker 1: I explained this at work. So I was in construction
Speaker 1: tunneling doing some rigging work, only female worker amongst all
Speaker 1: one hundred men, and a superintendent was talking to me, Oh,
Speaker 1: how do you find it? And everything else is said.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm always having to do everything well
Speaker 1: above and beyond what is supposed to be done, because
Speaker 1: the one time that I don't do it quite right,
Speaker 1: I don't belong here. But men can kind of not
Speaker 1: do it nine times out of ten, and that one
Speaker 1: time they get it right. Yeah, yeah, they've got the job.
Speaker 1: They're good for this role. And it's such a different
Speaker 1: perception and world to live in. But that's the reality
Speaker 1: of it. And he never ever thought of that because
Speaker 1: obviously he has he's not a woman, and he's never
Speaker 1: been in those shoes because he's always had opportunities given.
Speaker 1: He's either said yes, I am capable, even if he's not,
Speaker 1: and he's gone and done it and then learn just
Speaker 1: off the cuff of it. So for us, we don't
Speaker 1: really say yes unless we know that we can do
Speaker 1: more than And it's a really interesting way of looking
Speaker 1: at it, but that's us keeping ourselves safe.
Speaker 2: Tell me a little bit about your parents and what
Speaker 2: they were like.
Speaker 1: They were, Yeah, they were good. So Mum and Dad
Speaker 1: both always they always said to me, kids have to
Speaker 1: stay in a kids place. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: I was so naive. I thought, obviously Astoria was the world,
Speaker 1: so that that wasn't true. So I was able to
Speaker 1: live and have that fun outside style of living in
Speaker 1: a country, so playing football, doing whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1: So I wasn't really allowed to be around adults. Bedtime
Speaker 1: was always at seven, home and away. If they were
Speaker 1: kissing or anything on there, I wasn't allowed to watch it.
Speaker 1: It was just it was crazy and I was back
Speaker 1: and you kind of go, what was going on there?
Speaker 1: Kids are watching worse Now.
Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to watch over and away, but.
Speaker 1: It must have been the generation of them and they
Speaker 1: must have all talked about it too, So I don't
Speaker 1: think most of us were allowed to because they did that,
Speaker 1: and for me being naive, I was experiencing things for
Speaker 1: the first time and only being educated when I needed
Speaker 1: to know. So I was twelve when I first got
Speaker 1: my period, so before that I didn't even know that
Speaker 1: even happens.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So when I used to do karate, I went up
Speaker 1: to Perth for a grading, so Dad always drove me
Speaker 1: up because I've got two younger sisters so that always
Speaker 1: stay in Mount Barker to go to school. So Dad
Speaker 1: would drive up four hours. This time I remember it happening.
Speaker 1: I thought something was wrong with me. I said to Dad,
Speaker 1: I said, something's wrong. We need to go to the hospital.
Speaker 1: And he didn't know how to have the conversation with
Speaker 1: me because Aboriginal men don't really that's not their area,
Speaker 1: so they just wears mum. So Mum wasn't with us,
Speaker 1: so nan I remember her sitting on the bed and
Speaker 1: I was laying because I was a tomboy nickname was Billy,
Speaker 1: and I had no idea what the hell was going
Speaker 1: on with me, So hands behind my head, like pretty
Speaker 1: pissed off about it, and it's going what the hell?
Speaker 1: And Nan was trying to explain, you know when you
Speaker 1: become a young woman, and I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be that pissed ohole, Like I was so angry,
Speaker 1: and then when it left, I was like, oh, it's done,
Speaker 1: so just one time. Two weeks later, I had a
Speaker 1: netball kind of the same thing in Perth, but it
Speaker 1: was worse. But I also wasn't prepared for it, so
Speaker 1: it was probably it was the most embarrassing thing, but
Speaker 1: most unspoken thing. On top of having women like female
Speaker 1: coaches and older players around me and not being able
Speaker 1: to pull me aside and help me understand that, I
Speaker 1: was kind of left alone with it. And as embarrassing
Speaker 1: as it was for me, I could see people looking
Speaker 1: on reflection, I could see people looking at me, and
Speaker 1: it was on a need to know basis, so I
Speaker 1: only need to know about my period when it happened.
Speaker 1: So sometimes staying in a kid's place was very beneficial
Speaker 1: not understanding you know, some of the things that happen
Speaker 1: in adult lives, but in those circumstances, yeah, you need
Speaker 1: to know those things. So it was good in that
Speaker 1: sense that they did keep me in a kid's place,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I wish that they were one step ahead
Speaker 1: and educating and the reasons why and so we can
Speaker 1: ask questions and not feel that shame factor, because yeah,
Speaker 1: I just didn't know what was going on. So even
Speaker 1: without rest, I was remember standing in the shower trying
Speaker 1: to push him back in because I wanted to play
Speaker 1: afl with the West Coast Eagles, So I just didn't
Speaker 1: know what was happening. Yeah, I'm trying to explain it,
Speaker 1: and I think I was selective hearing and just I'll
Speaker 1: still Adam and I was going to play football for
Speaker 1: with Ben Cousins and we're a punda.
Speaker 2: So I mean that in itself is it's so telling
Speaker 2: of how much has changed in the last few years
Speaker 2: now that there is AFLW and you end up playing
Speaker 2: in the afl W as well, but also gender identity
Speaker 2: and all of those things. And we've seen, you know,
Speaker 2: Darcy Vessio recently come out as non binary, and that
Speaker 2: sounds like it was a really challenging time or confusing
Speaker 2: time in your life.
Speaker 1: Is that fair? Yeah? Well, so I'm a visual person
Speaker 1: and if I don't see different, I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I was in Perth again, but I
Speaker 1: was playing no shirt on hat backwards as Billy the kid,
Speaker 1: football in hand all day with these two brothers kicking
Speaker 1: and everything else. So Kirby is not exactly Charlotte, so
Speaker 1: it's not noticeable that I'm a girl either, and I
Speaker 1: look like a act like a boy. End of the day,
Speaker 1: we're drinking around the side of the house and one
Speaker 1: of the brothers. I don't know, boys can probably explain
Speaker 1: this or men or why they would do this, but
Speaker 1: one of the brothers pulled open their shorts and showed
Speaker 1: me their little peanuts and same age, and I leaned
Speaker 1: over and I was shocked. I was like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: What is that? What is happening? They're like and the
Speaker 1: other brother did it, and they're like Charles Joel's curb,
Speaker 1: and I just started feeling because I was I was
Speaker 1: probably like eight or nine, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't have one, and I just remember grabbing my shirt
Speaker 1: because the mom came, what are you boys doing? Like?
Speaker 1: Go back outside and play? And I remember tacking my
Speaker 1: shirt on, walking back all confused and looking at Dad
Speaker 1: and they're looking at Mum and then watching the foot
Speaker 1: he was on that night as well, and just really
Speaker 1: tripping out what's going on? I knew that I was
Speaker 1: a girl, I just didn't know what that looked like
Speaker 1: from a visual point.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about gender now?
Speaker 1: It is what it is. If people feel a certain
Speaker 1: way and they want to be who they were to
Speaker 1: be or who they feel they are, then that's who
Speaker 1: they are. You can't argue with that. I can't change
Speaker 1: who you are. And it's just like it's like anything else.
Speaker 1: Why should you.
Speaker 2: Netball champion, footy gun now, footy coach, first Indigenous woman
Speaker 2: to be a senior coach of a VFL or VFLW team.
Speaker 2: What is sport represented to you throughout your life?
Speaker 1: I think sports what has kept me together. So I
Speaker 1: had not broken English, but because I didn't understand the
Speaker 1: school system and what it is that I needed to
Speaker 1: learn and understand. It wasn't until like I played in
Speaker 1: my first state team and it was bringing Bianco Franklin
Speaker 1: to original girls and blackfellows you always want to kind
Speaker 1: of draw to, and they're like my big sisters, So
Speaker 1: I've always seen him in that way and they've always
Speaker 1: looked at me in that way as well, which is
Speaker 1: a powerful thing, and it's a great thing as a
Speaker 1: young original girl and a younger girl coming from Mount
Speaker 1: Baker to step into a team that has that. But
Speaker 1: I think in my first two state teams, because it
Speaker 1: pretty much stayed the same players for those two years,
Speaker 1: I don't think I ever spoke, and because I didn't
Speaker 1: really know how to use a knife and fork, I
Speaker 1: just do the old fork, stab into the food and
Speaker 1: just smash it down as quick as I could because
Speaker 1: I could because I wanted to go and play or whatever.
Speaker 1: So I actually didn't know how to use utensils. As
Speaker 1: small as it is. It was so significant when we
Speaker 1: went out to dinner because I'd never been to a
Speaker 1: restaurant before that, and before that, I'd never been to
Speaker 1: an airport, let alone being on the plane. So my
Speaker 1: first trials had just rewinder. Second, I remember seeing there
Speaker 1: were two hundred girls and at the end there was
Speaker 1: Phase one and there was a cart. One hundred girls
Speaker 1: were cart and Phase two and another cart. Then phase
Speaker 1: three it said team selection and then camera. So at
Speaker 1: list this is showing me age once again driving home
Speaker 1: four hours and so oh dad wears camera because when
Speaker 1: we get home, looking the outlets. So the first thing
Speaker 1: I did walked in the house, put my bags down,
Speaker 1: pulled out this old Atlas book and was looking for
Speaker 1: camber in wa searching for ages, and I said Dad,
Speaker 1: I said I can't find it, and he goes, it's
Speaker 1: over here. I was like, do we have to get
Speaker 1: a plane and he goes, yeah, he goes. So I
Speaker 1: started training my ass off because I wanted to go
Speaker 1: on airplane. I didn't give a shit about what team up.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what I was trayling for, to
Speaker 1: be honest. So I got selected and I was handed
Speaker 1: this black and gold dress. So I was trailing for
Speaker 1: State seventeens as a fourteen year old, no idea. It's
Speaker 1: my whole family, my nan, my pop, Arnie's uncle's cousins.
Speaker 1: I pretty much sat on half of the little theater
Speaker 1: room that we're in, and then just mums and dads
Speaker 1: of all the all the other girls. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: got given this dress and gone on a plane and
Speaker 1: flew to Canberra, and that was it. So learning about
Speaker 1: knives and forks and speaking properly. The only reason I
Speaker 1: started to speak the way that I speak and I
Speaker 1: do what I do is because I've watched David Rupunda
Speaker 1: and the way that he speaks and his stories and
Speaker 1: using words in the right context for me to then understand, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's what that means or this is how it should
Speaker 1: have should sound, not like this. So I was learning
Speaker 1: from that to then know how to interact. So two
Speaker 1: years playing State with these girls, I started to use
Speaker 1: similar language to what they would use because it was
Speaker 1: private school girl and correct English. So that's the only
Speaker 1: reason why I was able to speak the way I
Speaker 1: speak and do what I do. And that's the only
Speaker 1: reason why I am the way that I am and
Speaker 1: I speak the way I speak. Now, so you can
Speaker 1: get me to do any kind of work on the
Speaker 1: internet or study, I just I won't know how to
Speaker 1: do it, but I'd figure it out, but only because
Speaker 1: I'd go and ask a thousand questions to people to
Speaker 1: either show me or walk me through it. As an
Speaker 1: Aboriginal woman in netball and then transitioning into football, I
Speaker 1: need our girls and like white or whoever to understand
Speaker 1: that we're not all the same and we do understand
Speaker 1: things differently. And sometimes it's not that we don't want to,
Speaker 1: sometimes we don't know how to, and it's just breaking
Speaker 1: those barriers and understanding that our worlds are different. So
Speaker 1: some girls don't come to training, it's not because they
Speaker 1: don't want to, and it's not because they can't. It's
Speaker 1: because there's something that just happened that they need to
Speaker 1: make sure that is in place.
Speaker 2: First, do you know how powerful you are and your
Speaker 2: voice is you talk about David Wode partner and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. If you had listened to someone like you
Speaker 2: at that age as a twelve year old listening to
Speaker 2: a thirty five year old be as open and honest
Speaker 2: as your being right now, how impactful would that have been.
Speaker 1: For you as a twelve year old girl. Oh, it's huge.
Speaker 1: Because we're not taught to talk about a hardships. We're
Speaker 1: not taught to talk about or go talk about anything
Speaker 1: that has affected us in not necessarily a negative way,
Speaker 1: but or even a growth way. But it's not allowed
Speaker 1: to talk about it. We could talk about being proud
Speaker 1: about things, but if it's say that our dad hit
Speaker 1: mum last night. You can't say that you yelled at
Speaker 1: or we don't have washing powder, we don't have money,
Speaker 1: We're just not You don't talk about those things because
Speaker 1: it's a shame factor, not on yourself but just from
Speaker 1: a family perspective. But we're trying to shift perspectives too,
Speaker 1: but we can't shift it unless people are open to it.
Speaker 1: So can't I can't tell you that I don't have
Speaker 1: any money because what I grew up to understand is
Speaker 1: the perception is they don't think we have money. We
Speaker 1: probably don't, but it's more saying this is why, or
Speaker 1: this is this is where I fall down in this space.
Speaker 1: Can you please help me? Those conversations haven't really been allowed.
Speaker 1: If somebody had shared those things openly and I'd heard
Speaker 1: that as a young Aboriginal woman, an end or man
Speaker 1: or boy or whatever, you'd feel more inclined to then
Speaker 1: know who they those people are that you can then
Speaker 1: talk to because end of the day, your white friends
Speaker 1: have a lot more influence and change than you do.
Speaker 2: Let's hope that changes.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I can do as much as I as
Speaker 1: much as I do, and I can have those conversations
Speaker 1: around the dinner table, at breakfast with friends at footy clubs.
Speaker 1: I can have those conversations, but unless we then go
Speaker 1: to our homes. So there's thirty girls at Bulldogs and
Speaker 1: they all go to their homes and then their brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters then go to their friend's place. That's how
Speaker 1: it expands. But if it just stays there with them,
Speaker 1: that's as far as it gets.
Speaker 2: You need me to have the conversation as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to continue it, to challenge it, educate yourself.
Speaker 1: But I don't know everything about us and who we
Speaker 1: are as a culture. But if I don't know, I'll
Speaker 1: find it out and I'll own that too, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot that I don't know, and vice versa. There's
Speaker 1: a lot that I don't understand that you don't know either.
Speaker 1: So unless we talk, we're walking in silence pretty much.
Speaker 2: You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Kirby Bentley, your mum.
Speaker 2: You spoke a little bit about her, but what she
Speaker 2: likes as a person, what she brings you up up.
Speaker 1: She is one of the strongest women. You always get
Speaker 1: asked who's your role model as an athlete? It's never
Speaker 1: been another athlete, or it's never been another superstar. It's
Speaker 1: always been her, and I don't think she understands the
Speaker 1: depth of her who she is and what she's done
Speaker 1: to make me the woman I am, and how invaluable
Speaker 1: and how valuable that has been. So her loyalty kind
Speaker 1: of gets her stuck with people and it annoys me.
Speaker 1: She's always kind and wants to help people first and
Speaker 1: has always done that and has always been forgiving, but
Speaker 1: at her detriment as a daughter. Now, I'll tell my
Speaker 1: real age as a thirty five year old, you don't
Speaker 1: want it. You don't want to see your mum in
Speaker 1: that position, so I get really protective of it. But
Speaker 1: growing up, she taught me the values that I that
Speaker 1: I stand for and the way that I am, so loyalty, honesty, respect, integrity.
Speaker 1: They're very key values and a lot of companies use
Speaker 1: those values, but she's just done them instinctively. So she's
Speaker 1: just Yeah, she's a good woman.
Speaker 2: Massive smile on your Faceally and her sister, Andrea, your auntie,
Speaker 2: tell me about her and what kind of person she
Speaker 2: was to you.
Speaker 1: Mum's sister was five years younger. Bubbly would yarn about
Speaker 1: everything and call a spade a spade. In the most innocent,
Speaker 1: funniest way, but it would just lighten the mood. But yeah,
Speaker 1: be able to get somebody to own or be accountable
Speaker 1: for something as well. So she was such a beautiful woman,
Speaker 1: and I knew her up until I was twenty one.
Speaker 1: But I'm sad that I didn't know her well as
Speaker 1: an adult. So I love her and loved her unconditionally.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can't really live off regret. See that
Speaker 1: an Andrew would call every week a few times, a
Speaker 1: few times a week, and she had thirteen kids, so
Speaker 1: they wanted to make sure that we knew them and
Speaker 1: they knew us, and their relationship was a very, very
Speaker 1: powerful bond.
Speaker 2: The day that you lost your auntie, which I realized
Speaker 2: when we were sitting down to do this, was it's
Speaker 2: the anniversary this week. So I'm really sorry because I
Speaker 2: can't imagine anniversaries are particularly tough. No matter how many
Speaker 2: years go by, what do you remember from that time?
Speaker 1: So that day, all significant things that have happened. I've
Speaker 1: almost remembered everything that's happened in that day. So I
Speaker 1: remember and Andrew going through this situation with her partner.
Speaker 1: She had left him six months earlier. Restraining order in
Speaker 1: place he'd breached it. There'd been a machete left on
Speaker 1: letters saying I love Andrea Louise Pickett all and it
Speaker 1: was just back in front of six pages written handwritten
Speaker 1: on top of her diaries which he'd found, and he'd
Speaker 1: left them in the house and basically left as a threat. Definitely,
Speaker 1: definitely but ane. Andrea, another auntie and her two daughters
Speaker 1: were at the house and when they came out to
Speaker 1: get in the car with the evidence of what was
Speaker 1: left there, he was at the restraining order distance, so
Speaker 1: literally one hundred and fifty one meters standing there looking
Speaker 1: at the house, looking at my aunties and cousins, leaving
Speaker 1: as a threat. So he was in reach then. And
Speaker 1: when and Andrew had made the complaint or report that
Speaker 1: he'd breached the restraining order previously, it was disregarded, and
Speaker 1: a time before that was also disregarded. So went to
Speaker 1: the police station with the machete, the diaries, everything else,
Speaker 1: and they were crying like Anandre knew in her in
Speaker 1: her gut. She said it to us, she wrote it
Speaker 1: in the diaries, that he's going to kill her some
Speaker 1: way or another. And he said it to mum and
Speaker 1: we tried as a family to put everything in place
Speaker 1: to make sure that that wasn't going to happen. So
Speaker 1: when they went to the police that day with the
Speaker 1: machetes and the diaries and put it on and explained everything.
Speaker 1: The moment Anandrea and my other Arnie went and sat
Speaker 1: down or like literally turned around, they grabbed the machete
Speaker 1: and just kind of playing swords with it, which is
Speaker 1: like obviously a neglect of their role as policemen. So
Speaker 1: they didn't take it seriously, which was found in the
Speaker 1: court cases. And I think from that moment, I remember
Speaker 1: her sitting with Mum crying and said, he's going to
Speaker 1: kill me, and when he does, I need you to
Speaker 1: take my babies and look after them. So I remember
Speaker 1: Mum just saying yep, she goes, I will, but nothing's
Speaker 1: going to happen. So the couple days later, and Andrea
Speaker 1: went and stayed with the Arnie she was with that
Speaker 1: her house, so a different house. My sister was with
Speaker 1: Andrew that night and my other auntie and a cousin,
Speaker 1: so they were walking from the house because he had
Speaker 1: made another threat. That walked from the house down mirror
Speaker 1: Booker av which is maybe a fifteen minute walk to
Speaker 1: get to where they were going. So there was a
Speaker 1: McDonald's at the end of two traffic lights, and he'd
Speaker 1: come over and I really don't know how where he
Speaker 1: came from and how he even knew where they were,
Speaker 1: but he'd came over the hill, run at An Andrea,
Speaker 1: my sister, and my cousins and threatened her. Then my
Speaker 1: sister had her phone called triple zero. As calm as
Speaker 1: she was, she was scared as all hell, but we
Speaker 1: naturally were protective in nature, so she was also on
Speaker 1: the defensive while making the phone call, trying to pull
Speaker 1: Annie Andrea back, but throwing a bottle at him and
Speaker 1: just saying triple zero. Kenneth Charles Pickett has a restraining
Speaker 1: order against Andrea Luise Pickett. He's now threatened her and
Speaker 1: us with a knife. He said he's going to kill her,
Speaker 1: and he because the phone call was on, he'd taken
Speaker 1: off again ran to the car. By the time he
Speaker 1: got to the car, my auntie and cousins have all
Speaker 1: just run back to the house. And he'd already been
Speaker 1: at the house and cut the brake lines of all
Speaker 1: the cars in the driveway and in the yard. So
Speaker 1: this has happened in one week, within days of each other,
Speaker 1: and the next day move locations again. So I went
Speaker 1: to my Aunie's brother's house in North Beach and I
Speaker 1: went to I was playing West Coast Fever at the time.
Speaker 1: So that day I went to training. One of my teammates,
Speaker 1: I was becoming a detective, and I said to Mama,
Speaker 1: I said, I'll talk to Hell's I'll ask her what
Speaker 1: we can do. So when we're getting to training, we
Speaker 1: had we had a beat test, we had testing everything.
Speaker 1: I just remember it being such a solid session and
Speaker 1: running the beat test and doing court work and who
Speaker 1: was running next to it was so vivid. So I
Speaker 1: get home, it was late, it was maybe eleven o'clock.
Speaker 1: Mum was on the phone to Annie Andrea that night,
Speaker 1: so she was talking. Sounded good. Ani Andrew's on speaker,
Speaker 1: like a walk in the door. Mum says, However, I
Speaker 1: was training, how'd you go with your testing? And Annie
Speaker 1: Andrew asking the same question, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: think you should come over. I kept pressing it because
Speaker 1: I had a shower and she's still on the phone,
Speaker 1: so that are you going to come over and just
Speaker 1: come and stay with us. You can sleep in my
Speaker 1: sleep in my bed. I'll sleep on the couch or
Speaker 1: whatever she does. No, no, no, it's okay. Uncle Dennis
Speaker 1: is here, you know, Aunties and another uncle. So they
Speaker 1: were were surrounded by adults and people. So from a
Speaker 1: family perspective, we put in place what we thought would help.
Speaker 1: But from him, from the attacker, he was just so
Speaker 1: cunning and so patient, and everything was planned and premeditated.
Speaker 1: But because he was such a coward and gutless, he
Speaker 1: was so sly about it. Obviously we never saw what
Speaker 1: was coming. So Mama had got off the phone, probably
Speaker 1: about eleven forty pm, and I couldn't sleep in my room.
Speaker 1: I was just something was just spinning in my head.
Speaker 1: And I remember getting out. All the lights were still on,
Speaker 1: and Mum and Dad were outside, and I went in
Speaker 1: laid in like there was a spare room with a
Speaker 1: single bed. It was just random full moon still night
Speaker 1: blinds were up, and it was just before Mum walked
Speaker 1: in the room. I sat up and I just remember
Speaker 1: looking outside and just feeling off. It was such a
Speaker 1: bizarre feeling. And I've always had these gut feelings when
Speaker 1: things have happened, like significant things and Mum. As I
Speaker 1: looked back, Mum and opened the door, flowing of tears,
Speaker 1: and she said, Annie, Andrew's just being attacked. I was like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, what do you mean? She's been attacked?
Speaker 1: She's been attacked, And her tears were saying what happened.
Speaker 1: Her mouth was saying what she wanted to feel like
Speaker 1: was happening. So I knew she was attacked, but she
Speaker 1: wanted to be the extent that she knew in her
Speaker 1: gut for what she heard on the phone calls. So
Speaker 1: as soon as Mum left, I got them all up
Speaker 1: and we followed. So when we got there, there were
Speaker 1: four police cars and flagging off everything, and it was
Speaker 1: a hot summer's night. Mum especially tried to run through
Speaker 1: the barriers and the flagging because it was on the
Speaker 1: side of the road and we you know, we could see,
Speaker 1: we could see everything. So he'd found out where we
Speaker 1: stayed by one of the older daughters, and one of
Speaker 1: the older daughters drove him to this house and there
Speaker 1: was an apartment block behind like my uncle's place. And
Speaker 1: when you stand in front of a fence and there's
Speaker 1: light shining from the back of the fence over to
Speaker 1: the house. When you look at that building, you can't
Speaker 1: you can see just shadow. So because he was standing
Speaker 1: on the inside of the fence in the shadow, in
Speaker 1: all black, we couldn't see him. No one could see him.
Speaker 1: He'd jumped through the back window and it was stealth like.
Speaker 1: It was so quick. He'd got in and out stabbed
Speaker 1: the uncle that was in bed in the neck and
Speaker 1: in the chest. By then, this uncle had yelled out,
Speaker 1: he's here, he's here, and the three armies had run
Speaker 1: out the front, but he was already at the front.
Speaker 1: And Andrew had her second youngest base in her arms,
Speaker 1: and he had already started attacking her or nicking her,
Speaker 1: so she dropped her and he'd kept committing the attack.
Speaker 1: So he had a machete and he knew what he
Speaker 1: wanted to do. There were a few hundred nicks, and
Speaker 1: then there were obviously stab wounds on top of that.
Speaker 1: But that was his one thing that he went there
Speaker 1: to do, and he did it. So yeah, one of
Speaker 1: the arnies witnessed it. You can't really defend against someone
Speaker 1: like that because he was there to kill. He was
Speaker 1: there for no other reason. And if you were in
Speaker 1: the way, you were also a part of that, So
Speaker 1: that attack happened within ten minutes phone call shot to mum.
Speaker 1: He'd already jumped that back fence, and in the end
Speaker 1: we found out that he went and got dropped off
Speaker 1: where he was staying with his brother in a suburb across.
Speaker 1: So Bowga washed his clothes, put the knives on the
Speaker 1: lawn sink, had to shower, and just sat there and
Speaker 1: watched TV like nothing happened. So we were pressing the
Speaker 1: police to find Canaya. We thought he had taken her,
Speaker 1: and that was the only reason why they were extra
Speaker 1: alarmed because it was a child. Now in this so
Speaker 1: Danny Andrews is now laying on the bitchumen on the
Speaker 1: road or the curb passed away, and now they're starting
Speaker 1: to look because cana is missing. Two hours later found
Speaker 1: her hiding inside behind the couch, drenched in sweat because
Speaker 1: she's obviously in fear. She would have been three years old,
Speaker 1: witnessed this whole scenario and have Yeah, he's just in
Speaker 1: complete shock at this stage. There were helicopters and everything else,
Speaker 1: but couldn't find him. That actually literally couldn't locate him.
Speaker 1: He ended up driving with his family to the courthouse
Speaker 1: because he thought that our family were going to attack
Speaker 1: him before that. That was the only the police didn't
Speaker 1: find him. The police didn't go and pick him up
Speaker 1: and or visit that place for the severity and the
Speaker 1: reports that an Andrea had made and that we had
Speaker 1: made as families, Yeah, they just not at any stage
Speaker 1: did they take it serious. And throughout the court findings,
Speaker 1: the yeah, it was pretty noticeable. And that goes for police,
Speaker 1: child support, refugees, everything.
Speaker 2: Am I right in saying your auntie's case actually prompted
Speaker 2: internal investigations and change in the way that they handled things.
Speaker 2: They acknowledged publicly and apologized publicly.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so, yes, the police had owned their wrongdoing
Speaker 1: or acknowledged it. Four corners did their investigation and found
Speaker 1: the same thing. But so one of the comments from
Speaker 1: a cop like you lot always make this complaint and
Speaker 1: then you always go back, so what's the point? And
Speaker 1: that that was a comment, and that was throughout the
Speaker 1: court cases. If you read back through the transcript, that's
Speaker 1: what you'll see. Like, it's so disappointing because we're not
Speaker 1: all the same. You and I are the same, We
Speaker 1: can make the same decisions and same mistakes consistently but
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean we're the same and we're in the
Speaker 1: same circumstance or situation, or we can be in the
Speaker 1: same circumstance situation, but you can make a different decision
Speaker 1: and leave, but I can stay. And that was how
Speaker 1: they were treating it all the average and women just
Speaker 1: you just stay there, so it doesn't matter. But Annie
Speaker 1: Andrewa never left him, and the one time she did,
Speaker 1: she made that decision and that was final. So when
Speaker 1: she left, she left, and when she put the restraining
Speaker 1: order on, that was held there and then it was
Speaker 1: revisited and then reissued. When you look at her case,
Speaker 1: there was no reason why she shouldn't shouldn't have been
Speaker 1: protected or believed or supported.
Speaker 2: Do you remember how you felt when you turned up
Speaker 2: at their house that day and saw the scene in
Speaker 2: front of you?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, Like I was in shock, but I went
Speaker 1: into not protective mode. But I was so aware of
Speaker 1: Mum that I couldn't see anything else. So I just
Speaker 1: remember following her around because I knew that like that
Speaker 1: had changed all of us. And I always say I'm lucky,
Speaker 1: like I've still got my sister's and I've still got
Speaker 1: my mom and dad, So I'm lucky, but to see
Speaker 1: that and to see my mom the way that she was,
Speaker 1: that was probably the most heartbreaking experience at that time
Speaker 1: that I've ever felt. So I don't think we slept
Speaker 1: for nearly two and a half days. She didn't sleep,
Speaker 1: I didn't sleep. I followed her through the backyard and
Speaker 1: she's just gone and dropped on the grass, and I
Speaker 1: didn't know how to help her. So she's dropped to
Speaker 1: her knees and she's broke down and that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if I could just walk past me and
Speaker 1: said I'll look after it. But yeah, I just remember
Speaker 1: this feeling so broken.
Speaker 2: H that is such a lot to live through.
Speaker 1: It. Yeah, I don't know how I would. I don't
Speaker 1: know how I would do it if I was if
Speaker 1: that was my mum and dad, and I don't know
Speaker 1: how I'll do it if it was my sister's. You know,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, you just, yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: such a if you Yeah, if you really, if you
Speaker 1: really think, how people can get through that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it was, Yeah, that was hard
Speaker 1: to watch. It was hard to live in.
Speaker 2: How has it changed your life?
Speaker 1: So when I so in the country we'll go back to,
Speaker 1: just to put it into perspective. So I started playing
Speaker 1: netball representing WA. I was with the Orioles squad, which
Speaker 1: is West Coast fever since I was sixteen to year eleven.
Speaker 1: I'd moved up in year eleven and twelve, and netball
Speaker 1: was such a huge commitment with little monetary rewards. So
Speaker 1: when I say little, I mean like we might get
Speaker 1: fifty dollars to fly into state and play a national
Speaker 1: ag game. If we make the court, we might get
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars, If we play a whole game, might
Speaker 1: get one hundred and fifty. So it was you literally
Speaker 1: did it for the love of it, but the commitment
Speaker 1: was massive. So at one stage I was so overly
Speaker 1: I would say committed, but I think selfish. I was
Speaker 1: going to sew so many of these training sessions morning
Speaker 1: and afternoon after school, and having two younger sisters, I
Speaker 1: lost that relationship with them, but without realizing, and when
Speaker 1: I say without realizing, at that time, I didn't care
Speaker 1: because of who I was at as a person and
Speaker 1: what I understood. So I wanted to play for Australia
Speaker 1: and it was about me training and everything else. So
Speaker 1: It was probably literally until that night that I then
Speaker 1: appreciated that I had sisters and I was the oldest,
Speaker 1: and I saw the way that Mum was broken, and
Speaker 1: I could see the way it affected my nan and
Speaker 1: uncle Gary, so their brother, and I just didn't want that.
Speaker 1: I didn't want that for us. I was twenty four,
Speaker 1: and it was literally the week later I just started
Speaker 1: making phone calls to my sisters and just trying to
Speaker 1: establish or rebuild a relationship as adults, because we knew
Speaker 1: each other as little kids. And I left like when
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, so middle sister was just a teenager
Speaker 1: and I didn't really live back home again. So that
Speaker 1: was probably the biggest life changing or the turning point
Speaker 1: in regards to valuing them and appreciating Mum and Dad
Speaker 1: and time time with people. So I started to spend
Speaker 1: time with people who wanted to spend time with me.
Speaker 1: Annie Andrea asked Mum to take her seven babies, and
Speaker 1: that's exactly from her values loyalty and integrity, and she
Speaker 1: said she would, and she tried to do her absolute best.
Speaker 1: But when you go through an experience like that, and
Speaker 1: this is from the lens of a daughter who still
Speaker 1: has her mum and still has her sisters. She was
Speaker 1: in her darkest world and trying to be present as
Speaker 1: an auntie and a mother figure while dealing with her.
Speaker 1: I would say deep depression at the time, because you
Speaker 1: can't not be depressed or heartbroken. And I believe in
Speaker 1: real heartbreak, as in a genuine heart tear, because she
Speaker 1: looked broken. There's no other way to describe it, and
Speaker 1: I've never seen someone like that.
Speaker 2: Can you ever recover from a heartbreak a heart tear?
Speaker 1: I don't think you. No, I don't think you ever recover.
Speaker 1: It's like crack glass. You can kind of glut back together,
Speaker 1: but it will always still have its cracks in it.
Speaker 1: There's not a day that I don't go without thinking
Speaker 1: about the loved ones that have left this world. So
Speaker 1: I can only imagine that it would be a couple
Speaker 1: of times a day for her and f roun kle Garian.
Speaker 1: My Nan was around when Mum hurt. She hurt and
Speaker 1: it was deep, but she didn't know how to cope
Speaker 1: with that or deal with it because talking or communicating
Speaker 1: or sharing feelings wasn't something that we were familiar with.
Speaker 1: So I understand the only reason I know how to
Speaker 1: communicate differently is because of sport.
Speaker 2: How's your mum doing? Now?
Speaker 1: She's good, she's better, but it has taken since two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. She will never be full again or
Speaker 1: complete again.
Speaker 2: Given everything that you've taken on and now you're over
Speaker 2: in Victoria and even in the pandemic and the challenge
Speaker 2: that that provides of you know, we haven't been able
Speaker 2: to get back to wa or certainly not easily. How
Speaker 2: tough has it been on you.
Speaker 1: You always know when you need to put your feet
Speaker 1: back on country. It's for some people who don't understand
Speaker 1: it's a bizarre concept to need to do that. But
Speaker 1: I think I need to go home, even as for
Speaker 1: a second, I just I need to get home. There's yeah,
Speaker 1: you're stuck. There's no way of Actually you get on
Speaker 1: a plane and then you're isolate. But we know as
Speaker 1: adults we've got to also then provide an income and
Speaker 1: everything else. So you go over for fourteen days and
Speaker 1: you're stuck in a place that you don't really need
Speaker 1: to be in because you just need to hug your
Speaker 1: mum and put your feet back in your country and
Speaker 1: just be grounded, just to rejuvenate or just to fill
Speaker 1: the battery back up. But it's just yeah, it's been challenging. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'd say the same.
Speaker 2: It's going to be nice to get back home.
Speaker 1: Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait.
Speaker 2: I've taken up so much of your time.
Speaker 1: I know that.
Speaker 2: I did want to ask you about the injuries, because
Speaker 2: they've had a big impact on your life, haven't they.
Speaker 2: Because you talk about how sport has been a learning
Speaker 2: environment but also almost a refuge for those things that
Speaker 2: have gone down in your life. When that's then stripped
Speaker 2: away by how many knee recos? Have you had three
Speaker 2: knee recos? When it's stripped away, what kind of told
Speaker 2: does that take on you? Mentally?
Speaker 1: Sport has been my place of belonging. It was a
Speaker 1: bit of a showy or black magic stole netballer and footballer,
Speaker 1: but that was what I knew and understood, and that
Speaker 1: was where I was happiest. So I did my first
Speaker 1: knee when I was twenty one, playing netball for reconstruction.
Speaker 1: Twelve months out rehabbed, it came back fitter than I'd
Speaker 1: ever been in the game. The tragedy happened with Nandrea
Speaker 1: the following season. Then I started playing football and I
Speaker 1: just remember it was a wet weather game, jumped up, slipped,
Speaker 1: did my miniscus so and it was a bucket tear so,
Speaker 1: which means your little cushioning between your bottom of your
Speaker 1: leg and the top of your leg in your knee
Speaker 1: joint folded in half and it locked my knee. So
Speaker 1: that's called a bucket tear. It's just it stuck. So
Speaker 1: I needed surgery and stitching, which was season ending again.
Speaker 1: And I did my next knee just before the AFLW
Speaker 1: season the year before it was due to be announced
Speaker 1: to start.
Speaker 2: Which was that's your dream, that's what you wanted to
Speaker 2: do since you really hit and didn't exist as an
Speaker 2: actual thing.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's I was able to play football at
Speaker 1: my best throughout those those years prior to AFLW. When
Speaker 1: I got to AFLW, I never fully felt right and
Speaker 1: I never was able to be the best footballer I
Speaker 1: could be. Probably shouldn't have even played season one. I
Speaker 1: managed to get through that, but I think that was
Speaker 1: just through reputation alone. Had my knee reconstructed, not that
Speaker 1: I reruptured it, but I had that reconstructed again, came back.
Speaker 1: The arthritis was getting worse in my left knee and
Speaker 1: had my right one reconstructed, got delisted, came across the Carlton,
Speaker 1: managed to get my body okay, so I was at
Speaker 1: a good playing weight. My knee was at its worst.
Speaker 1: So I'd get home from training, I'd barely be able
Speaker 1: to walk out of the car. Some trainings, I'd barely
Speaker 1: be able to walk into training, and it was just excruciating.
Speaker 1: But mentally it impacted me because I knew what I
Speaker 1: was capable of doing. Once physically, I think I played
Speaker 1: three games with them trying to get back in the team.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know who Jess Edwards is,
Speaker 1: but she was one of our best athletes and running
Speaker 1: so fast, high speed running and everything else. Anyways, I
Speaker 1: grabbed her GPS and I put mine in hers, and
Speaker 1: she no, And I said, can you say, justin Kazitski story,
Speaker 1: I was running a was okay, and she was hitting
Speaker 1: tens with high speed running, whereas I was just kind
Speaker 1: of pacing and timing everything. So it was obvious on
Speaker 1: data got through that session, four trainers would walk past me,
Speaker 1: walked straight to Jed's and said, are you okay? She
Speaker 1: was okay because I'd known that I'd swapped the GPS's
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, yours must be broken, Caby, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, what the fun I'm like, Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: you can't even just give me a break. Anyways, I
Speaker 1: didn't get another game from that, but I think that's
Speaker 1: where I knew. I knew that I was. I was
Speaker 1: kind of done, but I didn't I didn't accept it mentally.
Speaker 1: It's I've played sport my entire life, and when I say,
Speaker 1: that's the only place that I felt like I belonged,
Speaker 1: and that was truly truly the case. So I think
Speaker 1: early on in our conversation, I didn't know. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: don't know where I belong or if I do belong,
Speaker 1: just in life in general, or if in people's lives
Speaker 1: or where I sit with things. So it's taken me
Speaker 1: three years after trying to run around with Hawthorne in
Speaker 1: the freezing cold in Victoria trying to play VFL, I
Speaker 1: just couldn't do it. But mentally hurt or it felt
Speaker 1: like a breakup. It was just it was devastating and
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to cope with it. I stopped
Speaker 1: watching footy, I stopped being involved in football. I hated
Speaker 1: sitting around like w girls who would talk about football.
Speaker 1: But I didn't voice it, but I just hated it.
Speaker 1: From a physical point of view. It wasn't my decision.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where a lot of athletes struggle
Speaker 1: when it's either season ending or career ending, which is
Speaker 1: not in your control. When you can control things, you
Speaker 1: can kind of mentally and emotionally prepare, and I just
Speaker 1: I wasn't prepared for it.
Speaker 2: How much did that impact your mental health?
Speaker 1: Oh, heavily. I don't think I realized what it was doing.
Speaker 1: I would find myself just sitting at home and not
Speaker 1: feeling motivated like i've I felt lost. I didn't know
Speaker 1: where I needed or had to be. I didn't know
Speaker 1: how to feel better if I had a conversation about playing.
Speaker 1: I was always trying to think, how could I make
Speaker 1: my knee feel better so I can actually just run
Speaker 1: because I can't run anymore because it's just the physical
Speaker 1: pain itself. So I think I did dip into a
Speaker 1: a stated depression. It was something that I've found really
Speaker 1: hard to accept. Your knee.
Speaker 2: You were telling me the cult doctor, what did he
Speaker 2: say about your knee?
Speaker 1: It's one of the worst he's ever seen in anyone
Speaker 1: with arthritis, and that's old people included. So a lot
Speaker 1: of athletes have just arthritis in general just from load itself.
Speaker 1: But because I'd done my first ACO when I was
Speaker 1: twenty one, and the buckets hair a couple of years later,
Speaker 1: it was pretty well wearing out and fast.
Speaker 2: What does that mean for the rest of your life?
Speaker 1: At some stage need and they replacement if I was,
Speaker 1: if I was in my fifties, I would have that.
Speaker 1: Now it's tolerable to walk on, but it's it used
Speaker 1: to be bad. It used to wake me up. Yep.
Speaker 1: I'd wake up thinking about playing, and you'd wake up heartbroken.
Speaker 1: It's such a bizarre feeling.
Speaker 2: You dream about playing, Oh.
Speaker 1: It would be so vivid, and I'd wake up with
Speaker 1: that excitement of it, but the reality of it wasn't there.
Speaker 1: And this happened for a couple of years after I stopped.
Speaker 1: It did take me a while to accept and not
Speaker 1: to necessarily get over it, but more accept it and
Speaker 1: own that for me to then make a decision how
Speaker 1: I want to stay involved in the game. But so
Speaker 1: I want to be a part of that change, because
Speaker 1: as you see in the nineties, football. You see, when
Speaker 1: a lot of our a black fellows start playing, they
Speaker 1: changed the way that we played football, which means the
Speaker 1: game plans have to change. Your coaching has to be
Speaker 1: challenged because you've got to also canterrac that. So then
Speaker 1: the game kind of shifts in a skillful manner. That's
Speaker 1: what we want for AFOW Our girls bring that spark,
Speaker 1: which then changes the way we play, which changes the
Speaker 1: way girls think, which helps growth.
Speaker 2: I spoke to Carl Antonio, now former Freo captain but
Speaker 2: still playing one of your best mates. She said that
Speaker 2: you're still the best footy player she's ever played with
Speaker 2: or against. And as a person, you're the strongest friend
Speaker 2: she's got.
Speaker 1: She's a beautiful girl. I love juddy.
Speaker 2: She's pretty bloody tough herself. To have that description, the
Speaker 2: strongest friend she's got, does that mean something?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's I know if I pick up the phone,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how long we go without speaking. I know
Speaker 1: that she's that rock. And there's very few I could
Speaker 1: probably say there'd be three people in my life that
Speaker 1: I know would be that for me, and she's Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's definitely one of those. She's an exceptional person. There's yeah,
Speaker 1: there's very few people in this world that I that
Speaker 1: I would do anything for, and she's one of them.
Speaker 2: My final question, do you ever have vulnerable moments where
Speaker 2: you just you are so bloody strong and even as
Speaker 2: you talk through all of this, I can see how
Speaker 2: much you responsibility you put on your own shoulders to
Speaker 2: represent and to be honest, And do you have moments
Speaker 2: where you just allow yourself to feel however and whatever
Speaker 2: you need to feel.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I've just always held back, Like
Speaker 1: even just even hearing you say that from Juddy, that
Speaker 1: chokes me up. So that's that's not something that I've
Speaker 1: that I hear often. But yeah, you you know, and
Speaker 1: you expect them to know too. But it's also it's
Speaker 1: so important that they hear that too. Yeah, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I try not to be so vulnerable with myself, but
Speaker 1: I can be. I can share with you what I
Speaker 1: know and feel. That doesn't mean that that it doesn't
Speaker 1: hurt me or upset me or make me feel a
Speaker 1: certain wave. Yeah, because there has been times, probably the
Speaker 1: first time that I've spoken about it and felt those
Speaker 1: emotions and feel that coming up. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what are you scared of No, I'm not scared
Speaker 1: of scared of anything. It's just I don't like feeling
Speaker 1: upset or hurt. And you know that they're they are
Speaker 1: emotions that are there and they're real because that's what's
Speaker 1: changed you, that's what's impacted you, and that's what it is.
Speaker 1: So I know that those feelings are there, and I
Speaker 1: know that that's where they sit in and amongst whatever
Speaker 1: story it is. But yeah, I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: that's just how it is.
Speaker 2: Protection mode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think maybe.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty because I know
Speaker 2: it doesn't sit comfortably with you, but it does help people.
Speaker 2: I know it's going to help people, and you know,
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, young indigenous girls or boys, or
Speaker 2: people like me understanding better because as you said right
Speaker 2: off the top, it's only three conversations like this that
Speaker 2: we can try to comprehend and understand each other. So
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Is there anything else you want
Speaker 2: to add?
Speaker 1: That was awesome? Anytime?
Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Thanks for everything, as thank you.
Speaker 2: Time, Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking,
Speaker 2: which is also the final episode for season three. Thanks
Speaker 2: to all of my guests and their families for allowing
Speaker 2: their stories to be told. And thanks of course to
Speaker 2: you for tuning in and getting in touch. If you
Speaker 2: like the podcast, please tell your mates and share it
Speaker 2: on your socials tag at ordinarily underscore Speaking on Instagram
Speaker 2: and at narrowly underscore Meadows on Twitter. Thanks again, want me.
Speaker 1: Because I'm competrating the fire and the food.
Speaker 3: Send me that you
Speaker 2: Want me go