Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, welcome to not Another Crime podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Georgia Love, I'm Sammy Peterson, I am a journalist, i
Speaker 1: am not and today we are joined by someone who's
Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. We're both a big fan of this person
Speaker 1: and overjoyed. We haven't done many zooms in our time,
Speaker 1: but we are overjoyed.
Speaker 2: I'm going to.
Speaker 3: Use it again.
Speaker 1: Overjoyed to be with the amazing Elizabeth Lame.
Speaker 3: Welcome.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. I am overjoyed
Speaker 4: as well.
Speaker 1: The only person who hasn't said that they're overjoyed is Georgia.
Speaker 2: No, because now it will sound like I've made it up.
Speaker 2: But I'm going to wait for the moment where i
Speaker 2: feel overwhelmed with joy and I'm going to drop it out.
Speaker 5: Yes and well just saam, you and I will decide
Speaker 5: if it's authentic or well radio.
Speaker 1: That's the segment. We have a buzzer where we can
Speaker 1: buzz in it. I'll go authenticly.
Speaker 5: This is my first true crime podcast, which I'm so
Speaker 5: excited to do and thankful that you two woke up
Speaker 5: early to do this with Thank you very much you did.
Speaker 2: We didn't need to make that such a big deal.
Speaker 2: But indeed, because we're very tired, we've.
Speaker 1: Gone on and on about how early we woke up,
Speaker 1: which is really a rude way to start a podcast.
Speaker 3: We've discovered there are very.
Speaker 2: Few people who we would do that for, and you, Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: absolutely one of them. So listeners will recognize or may
Speaker 2: recognize your name from your very own podcast, which I
Speaker 2: know you have many, but one in particular has absolutely
Speaker 2: blown up recently. It's one of those ones that all
Speaker 2: of a sudden you hear it everywhere, everyone's talking about it.
Speaker 2: You're going, what what what is this? Bethstead? Can you
Speaker 2: just give us your elevated pitch about this podcast? Bethstead?
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 5: So. We my husband and I have been podcasting since
Speaker 5: twenty ten.
Speaker 3: The podcast is really the first podcasters.
Speaker 5: Very early we were we hadn't roll early by accident.
Speaker 5: You know, we always joke about we're very good at
Speaker 5: putting energy towards things that are not monetizable.
Speaker 4: So that was what it was.
Speaker 5: So we had a podcast and it developed into four
Speaker 5: different podcasts by twenty sixteen. It's when the story happened,
Speaker 5: and what happened was something crazy, and it involves parasocial
Speaker 5: relationships and long story short, a fan of ours was
Speaker 5: Monica Padman, who you know from Armchair Expert, and she
Speaker 5: asked us one day why we stopped podcasting in like
Speaker 5: twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and we told her this story
Speaker 5: and she was like, we have to make a podcast.
Speaker 5: So the podcast is her interviewing us about this story
Speaker 5: of this wild thing that happens. And it was so
Speaker 5: crazy that we got the lapd involved. At the time
Speaker 5: we stopped all of our podcasts, we like lived with
Speaker 5: a new level of kind of distrust for a long time,
Speaker 5: and then in doing this podcast, Monica got involved and
Speaker 5: became kind of a Nancy Drew and the twists and
Speaker 5: turns continued.
Speaker 4: So it's a ride.
Speaker 3: I think it absolutely is.
Speaker 1: When when you stopped podcasting for a while, was that
Speaker 1: just you know, was it hard to kind of get
Speaker 1: back in and want to tell the story? If that
Speaker 1: was something that made you want to stop podcasting in general?
Speaker 5: Yeah, and actually yes it was. We were like moths
Speaker 5: to a flame. And so Andy and I started our
Speaker 5: podcast back up again in I think twenty twenty two.
Speaker 5: It's called Nobody's Listening, right, and it's just him and
Speaker 5: I but we have safety kind of nets in place
Speaker 5: where we're not interacting with listeners. Really, we changed the
Speaker 5: format a little bit to feel better about things, but
Speaker 5: we have also learned we can't not podcast. As you
Speaker 5: guys know, it's a it's a it's an intense drug.
Speaker 5: So but in the making of this podcast, we made
Speaker 5: it over two years, and all three of us at
Speaker 5: different times brought to the group, I don't know if
Speaker 5: we should do this, Like, I don't know if we
Speaker 5: should put it out. It feels dangerous, and so that
Speaker 5: was definitely a big part of the conversation. I think
Speaker 5: you'll hear it on the podcast, to us debating if
Speaker 5: what we're doing is so stupid still still might be.
Speaker 5: We you know, have yet to know.
Speaker 2: So for people who haven't listened to it, where we
Speaker 2: might be sounding really vague, we're going to do a
Speaker 2: bit of a spoilers section later on for anyone who
Speaker 2: wants to hear it. But that's why we're being a
Speaker 2: bit vague about the story.
Speaker 3: But it sounds like we haven't listened to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it sounds like we're those those terrible interviewers
Speaker 2: who go, so just tell us what it's about.
Speaker 4: No, I appreciate. I appreciate that.
Speaker 5: Actually I can give a little more detail when you
Speaker 5: said elevator pitch just for anyone. The thing that happened
Speaker 5: is that people would write into our podcast for our
Speaker 5: very unqualified advice. Andy and I had no business giving
Speaker 5: anyone advice, but we did. And at the time, I
Speaker 5: was a brand new mom to two tiny humans and
Speaker 5: working through some stuff, and I developed relationships with especially
Speaker 5: young women who needed help. And one of those young
Speaker 5: women for the title was named Beth, and that relationship
Speaker 5: took on a life of its own and lessons were learned.
Speaker 5: But yeah, so that's kind of the jumping off point
Speaker 5: for the story with no spoilers.
Speaker 1: And also, like you know, this was a very different
Speaker 1: kind of podcast for you. So you said before that
Speaker 1: it is your first true crime podcast as being you know,
Speaker 1: doing a more documentary series. I don't know, I said
Speaker 1: that so strangely, it is very early.
Speaker 3: I will say it again. I iver joyed to be here, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: But the over joyed the documentary style. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a conversation between you three.
Speaker 3: But was that.
Speaker 1: Something you know that you've always wanted to do or
Speaker 1: was this a completely new avenue where you never kind
Speaker 1: of thought that you would. It's like true crime, kind
Speaker 1: of a vein of a true crime story really what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, never would have wanted to. I am I'm
Speaker 5: a TV writer, so I do write shows, and I did.
Speaker 5: I was on a show called A Million Lot Things
Speaker 5: for a few years and one of the episodes that
Speaker 5: I wrote in that show for like our beloved younger
Speaker 5: female character played by Lizzie Green, She's Incredible, was based
Speaker 5: on something that happened to me. And the way we
Speaker 5: told the story was very similar to the way we
Speaker 5: crafted the story for this, where the audience is learning
Speaker 5: what's happening at the same time that the character is.
Speaker 4: So I think I had.
Speaker 5: I think I love to tell stories obviously, and you
Speaker 5: know that's my my jam. So it was exciting for
Speaker 5: me and all of us. It was really a collaboration,
Speaker 5: but to figure out the best way to lay out
Speaker 5: the story to tell it, and also the three of
Speaker 5: us just have fun chemistry, and so I feel like,
Speaker 5: I mean, it's a creepy story. It's not like all
Speaker 5: fun and games or any any stretch, but we I
Speaker 5: think brought kind of just our own style to it
Speaker 5: and didn't want. We wanted that to definitely be in place,
Speaker 5: so a lot of thought was given to how it's
Speaker 5: coming across, and it took a long time to make,
Speaker 5: and it definitely flexed muscles I didn't have or didn't.
Speaker 4: Feel like I wanted to have.
Speaker 5: But yeah, but now I'm like, it was really fulfilling.
Speaker 5: And there were some choices we made, like episode eight,
Speaker 5: I don't know if you remember what that one was,
Speaker 5: the crafting of something where you know, we made the
Speaker 5: choice to keep it very like it's all there, very
Speaker 5: lightly edited, if at all. So those were choices that
Speaker 5: we knew like some people wouldn't like and some people would,
Speaker 5: but we got to make it the way we wanted it,
Speaker 5: which was unlike in TV, also so fulfilling because you
Speaker 5: just get to make the thing and put it out,
Speaker 5: which is so cool.
Speaker 1: You when you started as well, did you kind of
Speaker 1: know where you were going to go with it? Was
Speaker 1: it just you know, the germ of the idea was like,
Speaker 1: we're just going to see what happens, or you know, like,
Speaker 1: were you kind of because you sound quite terrified of
Speaker 1: where it's going to go? Is that is that something
Speaker 1: where you thought, oh no, if we get two years
Speaker 1: into this, because I kind of wonder with ending sometimes
Speaker 1: is that, you know, sometimes you can I've made documentaries
Speaker 1: in the past where you know, you get to a
Speaker 1: certain point and then you go, oh, no, there's no ending,
Speaker 1: like you know, unless for something. Yeah, yeah, like you
Speaker 1: know you're kind of going, what's the ending? Did you
Speaker 1: kind of work at some point that it would just be, oh,
Speaker 1: that was good, A good two years?
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, I mean I think that I think that
Speaker 5: was definitely concerned. It still felt like a story that
Speaker 5: was worthy of telling. And but setting out I had
Speaker 5: like I created a rough outline and then everyone weighed
Speaker 5: in and it honestly staged pretty true to it until
Speaker 5: it took on a life of its own, and then
Speaker 5: the outline kind of evolved as we went. So, but
Speaker 5: we kind of we had a very loose framework and
Speaker 5: then in each episode, like we kind of knew that
Speaker 5: the general direction we were heading, and I think Monica
Speaker 5: did such a great job of like leading us through
Speaker 5: that each episode. But the framework was pretty adhered to
Speaker 5: you and it kind of had to be because there
Speaker 5: was so much information to get out and if you
Speaker 5: would believe it, like that wasn't even all of the inform,
Speaker 5: you know, it's we still had to be discerning and
Speaker 5: but yeah, that but there was definitely like we had
Speaker 5: alternative endings that were options, I guess for us to
Speaker 5: kind of explore and talk about things, but the ending
Speaker 5: then just happened to us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe one of the endings was a dance,
Speaker 1: a dance between you three.
Speaker 2: I would have been joyed to say that. However, I
Speaker 2: don't know either. Hard to see the dance. And that's
Speaker 2: why we brought you here today. Elizabeth on camera five six.
Speaker 4: You I am wearing my Bob Fosse like all black perfect.
Speaker 2: She's one of mine.
Speaker 1: For parasocial relationships, that's a big theme in the podcast.
Speaker 1: Has it kind of changed the way you post on Instagram?
Speaker 1: Has it changed the way that you kind of you know,
Speaker 1: live your life in a way online.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and doing this just validated that so much, this
Speaker 5: thing happening. I scrubbed my kids from Instagram. I'm like
Speaker 5: very careful about being like not really sharing where we
Speaker 5: live exactly, and if we go somewhere, like I don't
Speaker 5: post about it until we're not there, you know, things
Speaker 5: like that. So and especially being a parent, I think,
Speaker 5: you know, we had a fellow Assi on as like
Speaker 5: an expert speaking to us in the podcast, and she
Speaker 5: was so great and she just really kind of validated
Speaker 5: my need to protect my kids. And it's hard at
Speaker 5: podcasters because it they are our life.
Speaker 4: And even on.
Speaker 5: Instagram, I feel bad sometimes because I'm like, they're the
Speaker 5: main thing in my life. But if you looked at
Speaker 5: my Instagram, you would think I'm like just about cleavage.
Speaker 2: And now I'm just gonna and you can follow elizabethtobiography.
Speaker 5: Actually I think it's probably like coffee and I don't
Speaker 5: know what, but that's not it's important actually still coffee,
Speaker 5: but yeah, I I just am really and now with AI,
Speaker 5: we didn't even get into that. But the stuff with
Speaker 5: AI where they can like take someone's face and basically
Speaker 5: have them doing anything, makes me very fearful for like adolescence,
Speaker 5: you know, coming up, and so I'm very I'm not
Speaker 5: glad this happened, but I am glad for that lesson
Speaker 5: where I don't think I would, you know, I don't
Speaker 5: think that I would have taken those precautions well.
Speaker 1: Because parent social relationships are like you know, Monica Padman
Speaker 1: kind of had one with you two, like you know,
Speaker 1: the it is even though she'd met you. It is
Speaker 1: weird that, like, I had a parasocial relationship with you
Speaker 1: through listening to the podcast, and I was like, I'll
Speaker 1: just reach out and ask her on the podcast, and.
Speaker 3: You know, you kind of do something. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: You're a little bit worried, Elizabeth at the end of
Speaker 1: the culp No, but there is a there is a
Speaker 1: part where I'm a fan of podcasts and being you know,
Speaker 1: I do stand up and being in the comedy world.
Speaker 1: I know the people that do the podcast and I
Speaker 1: listen to mostly. But what I find weird is sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm having a conversation knowing a fact about them that
Speaker 1: they've just said that week on a podcast, and you
Speaker 1: kind of do have a more intimate relationship with people
Speaker 1: sometimes that you you think you do, you think you.
Speaker 2: Do in the relationship you actually have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you notice that in the in the wild
Speaker 1: when when you tour about, Like, did you notice that
Speaker 1: people like kind of had this parasocial relationship it with you.
Speaker 1: Was that something that that kind of came up.
Speaker 4: A bit with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, when you're doing the podcast.
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny.
Speaker 5: I feel like the only times I'm ever like recognized
Speaker 5: is when I'm with Monica, Yeah, something is like oh podcasting,
Speaker 5: and you know, I think she experiences that all the time.
Speaker 5: I do have some friends who are so sweet to
Speaker 5: listen to our show, and so sometimes something will slip
Speaker 5: in and I'm like, oh, right, you know, and I think,
Speaker 5: as you two probably know it will actually you're still
Speaker 5: young and have neurons firing and stuff. But I forget
Speaker 5: what we talked about, like the second it's out of
Speaker 5: my mouth. So sometimes someone will bring something up and
Speaker 5: I'm like, when did I tell you that? You know
Speaker 5: that sort of thing where?
Speaker 4: But I too, I listen to podcasts.
Speaker 5: One of my friends podcasts, June Dian Raphael and Jessica
Speaker 5: Saint Clair have a great podcast called The Deep Dive.
Speaker 5: And my issue as someone who has both a real
Speaker 5: and our social relationship is I'm I cannot resist like
Speaker 5: live texting them as I'm listening and they're like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, we recorded that like three weeks ago, like
Speaker 5: I don't need to relive it with you, but it is.
Speaker 5: It is very interesting, and I do think because it's
Speaker 5: such an intimate medium, I understand because I'm on the
Speaker 5: other end of it feeling like you know the person
Speaker 5: and almost like if they say something you don't agree with,
Speaker 5: you're disappointed in or we got we were talking about
Speaker 5: speaking of dancing, Andy and I spoke about dancing recently
Speaker 5: in a way that you know, we can be a
Speaker 5: little snarky sometimes and we're giving people shit, the people
Speaker 5: who basically like, go out on the dance floor first
Speaker 5: and just go big. And the truth is like, in
Speaker 5: my real life, I don't really care like everyone should dance,
Speaker 5: that they want to dance, but I think because people
Speaker 5: have expectations of us, some people were really upset that
Speaker 5: we were like.
Speaker 4: Dissing dancing the big dances.
Speaker 2: You know exactly who was upset about that was the
Speaker 2: big dances.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we saw you busting some moves on the coldest before.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I in that sense, I'm like, you probably
Speaker 5: wouldn't be that upset.
Speaker 4: I mean, in a way, it's flattering.
Speaker 5: It's like you care enough or like think of us
Speaker 5: a certain way enough to feel the need to take
Speaker 5: to your keyboard, you know, which I appreciate. But also
Speaker 5: it's like it's like they're your cousin or something. They're like,
Speaker 5: I'm disappointed in you, but also they have the anonymity
Speaker 5: of the Internet, so it's just very interesting. And then
Speaker 5: of course I, by and large, our fans are incredible,
Speaker 5: which is also why when all of this happened, it
Speaker 5: was really not expected at all. And unlike people like
Speaker 5: Monica and people have massive platforms, we have like a
Speaker 5: very you know, proud of it, but not like a huge, massive,
Speaker 5: popular podcas House. It's it's medium smile I'd say youth youth,
Speaker 5: medium large, I don't know, doing T shirt sizing, and
Speaker 5: so it's not like I feel like the bigger it gets,
Speaker 5: the more kind of I don't know, like negativity jumps
Speaker 5: into the pool, which we haven't experienced really at all.
Speaker 4: We've been really lucky.
Speaker 1: Well, before we kind of get into the spoiler section,
Speaker 1: I thought it might be worth mentioning like a little
Speaker 1: bit more about the show. So, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the letters comes through with someone called Beth, and you
Speaker 1: had these letters that you were giving advice on and
Speaker 1: then you get some devastating news one day after helping
Speaker 1: Beth through some problems for a long time, and you
Speaker 1: find out the news that that Beth is Beth is
Speaker 1: in fact dead. You hear that from.
Speaker 2: Someone else oh no, spoilers, that's not written on the
Speaker 2: artwork and spoiler you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you find you find that out and and so
Speaker 1: for you that that feeling of hearing that and it
Speaker 1: was a you know, you got really invested in this story.
Speaker 1: How how did that kind of change you know, the
Speaker 1: way that you were giving advice and did it just
Speaker 1: kind of completely change who you were in that moment?
Speaker 1: Because I can imagine that it's such a massive thing
Speaker 1: from you know, the way you describe your podcast as
Speaker 1: a medium, small kind of podcast and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden there's this huge devastating thing that happened. It
Speaker 1: was that something that kind of changed you right away?
Speaker 1: How did you cope with with hearing that news?
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it definitely did. And it was really interesting
Speaker 5: doing the podcast. I went we went back through all
Speaker 5: of my correspondence with Beth that I hadn't looked at
Speaker 5: since that time, which was like eight years prior.
Speaker 4: Yeap. It definitely changed so much in I think.
Speaker 5: So this was our podcast called Totally Married, and I
Speaker 5: think you can probably hear it like we ended up
Speaker 5: stuffing everything about a year later because well, for multiple reasons,
Speaker 5: but I became way less confident giving advice to anyone,
Speaker 5: particularly like if it seemed like it was this actual
Speaker 5: situation that needed real advice. Hearing it back, I was
Speaker 5: pretty horrified.
Speaker 4: At like some.
Speaker 5: Of the advice or this is so it's I was
Speaker 5: horrified in a way because we would give advice publicly
Speaker 5: on the podcast, and sometimes especially Andy would be like
Speaker 5: get out, get out of the relationship, or he'd just
Speaker 5: be very black and white about things, and I'd be like, well,
Speaker 5: And in this case, though, I was corresponding with her personally,
Speaker 5: and so there was like a gray area for me.
Speaker 5: But I was giving her big advice and I didn't
Speaker 5: know her, and it's weird, Like it's weird saying it now.
Speaker 5: I'm looking back and going, what the fuck was I doing.
Speaker 5: But I also think it's been interesting now that this
Speaker 5: has been out, Like a lot of people have weighed
Speaker 5: in about the fact that I was so postpartum and
Speaker 5: you're you don't have sleep, your hormones are everywhere, your
Speaker 5: you know, your sense of identity is just like it's
Speaker 5: just a crazy time. And so I almost feel like
Speaker 5: I didn't give that enough kind of credence and the
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's the right word.
Speaker 4: But you know what I mean, I think it was.
Speaker 5: It was the time, it was the situation, it was
Speaker 5: that she had access to us in that way, and
Speaker 5: but yeah, it changed, I mean it changed everything.
Speaker 2: At what point did you realize that there was a crime,
Speaker 2: there had had been a crime?
Speaker 4: Are we talking spoilers?
Speaker 2: Now, let's do it if you're happy to Yeah, yep. So,
Speaker 2: dear listeners, turn off now if you if you don't
Speaker 2: want to know, go no, no, well off, pause, go
Speaker 2: and listen into ten episodes of Bested and then'd come back.
Speaker 5: So the I we really didn't know it was a
Speaker 5: crime until we spoke with the LAPD detective. But what
Speaker 5: had happened was we got an email from Beth's account
Speaker 5: telling us, and it was from her brother Jason, that
Speaker 5: she had died by suicide. And I was devastated, and
Speaker 5: there were very quickly Jason started becoming really aggressive and
Speaker 5: almost like accusing me of having some part in it
Speaker 5: and asking me if I was her therapist, which I
Speaker 5: at the time internalized as like, oh my god, I
Speaker 5: did have a part in this, Like you know, it
Speaker 5: was really awful, and I really cared about her as well.
Speaker 5: And then in the meantime, there were all these other
Speaker 5: listeners that I had also been corresponding with and deal
Speaker 5: with in our comments section. We had a massive comment section.
Speaker 5: This was like back in the day when there was
Speaker 5: like live journals and people it was so it was
Speaker 5: like so much activity in her comments, and so I
Speaker 5: was getting to know people there also and moderating sometimes.
Speaker 5: And long story short, we my friend Hammy Sager actually
Speaker 5: it was her birthday yesterday.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 5: She pointed out that this was strange behavior from a
Speaker 5: brother whose sister just died by suicide to be going
Speaker 5: through her email, and that kind of lifted a veil
Speaker 5: to me, and I thought, oh my gosh, is this
Speaker 5: something is something weird about this? And so what we
Speaker 5: did was we looked up Best's IP addresses linked to
Speaker 5: her comments on our website, and when you click on
Speaker 5: like it was a hyperlink, and when you click on it,
Speaker 5: all the comments she made or all the comments from
Speaker 5: that IP address would come up. And to her horror,
Speaker 5: it was Beth, it was these other characters, Natasha and Andrews,
Speaker 5: it was Frank, it was some others, And we realized
Speaker 5: that this was all one person who was acting as
Speaker 5: all these different people. So we'd been catfished pretty pretty good,
Speaker 5: I would say, pretty pretty thoroughly.
Speaker 3: Did you realize right away.
Speaker 1: With the IPA dress, because it was making excuses saying,
Speaker 1: we all live in the same block of apartments and
Speaker 1: I've been suggesting it at our group gatherings and that's
Speaker 1: why it's the same.
Speaker 3: My pay dress.
Speaker 1: So there's lots of excuses there and hanging on to
Speaker 1: keep this line alive.
Speaker 3: Did you realize right away?
Speaker 5: We knew as soon as we saw that, and it
Speaker 5: was a real like, oh, this is all one person now.
Speaker 5: I still it took me a minute to kind of unravel,
Speaker 5: Like I wondered, was Beth acting as all one per person?
Speaker 5: Who I still thought that one of them was real?
Speaker 5: And didn't I think Andy, my husband more quickly jumped
Speaker 5: to like, there's someone behind us who's none of these people.
Speaker 4: No one died by suicide.
Speaker 5: There's no brother who's like bereft going through his sister's emails.
Speaker 5: And that's when we stopped responding. And that's when whoever
Speaker 5: did this basically was trying to clean up their mess
Speaker 5: they made and saying, oh, did you figure it out
Speaker 5: by our ip addresses? It turns out we all lived together,
Speaker 5: which is so funny. Sam and Georgia like, Yeah, how
Speaker 5: many barbecues do you hear of? Where ever?
Speaker 4: Listening to a podcast?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then going and commenting while they're still sitting
Speaker 2: around the barbecue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful listening party.
Speaker 3: It's lovely.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 4: I wish I'm sad I missed the invite. I would
Speaker 4: have shown up.
Speaker 2: That would have loved it. Is well, they loved you, Elizabeth,
Speaker 2: they did. I found that part of it really interesting
Speaker 2: from a crime perspective of seeing the catfish really unraveled
Speaker 2: very quickly in terms of panicking and thinking that you
Speaker 2: had worked something out before you'd actually said that you had.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the crime stories we talk about,
Speaker 2: you know, be they very infamous murder stories or smaller
Speaker 2: things that we found out from things like podcasts that
Speaker 2: happened so often where people really unravel and panic and
Speaker 2: that and I suppose they panic and that's when things unravel.
Speaker 2: What was that like for you to witness and experience
Speaker 2: kind of watching this happen and knowing what to do
Speaker 2: or not while that was all unfollowing in real time.
Speaker 5: It was terrifying. It was like because just we had
Speaker 5: no idea who this was. And we we did figure
Speaker 5: out who we thought it was pretty pretty quickly. But
Speaker 5: during those couple of weeks while they were panicking, I
Speaker 5: was like, I mean we had our locks changed, which
Speaker 5: was insane. I was like, should we go stay in
Speaker 5: a hotel? We just we had a tiny, little one
Speaker 5: bedroom like bungalow in LA where you can easily figure
Speaker 5: out where we lived. I was like, Oh my god,
Speaker 5: I've talked about my kids daycare, which is across the street.
Speaker 5: I've mentioned their takecare woman's by name, by name, and
Speaker 5: I was thinking, are they going to show up to
Speaker 5: the daycare and say, like, you know, Jennifer, are you Jennifer?
Speaker 4: And like I was so out of my mind with fear.
Speaker 5: And that's when we reached out to this detective at LAPD,
Speaker 5: like through a friend who has a security situation because
Speaker 5: they're celebrity, so they have like a special security person
Speaker 5: who's friends with this detective. Not really thinking there was
Speaker 5: a crime, because you know, you think of crimes as
Speaker 5: more you know, physical, and so I honestly just wanted
Speaker 5: to talk to him about like what we could best
Speaker 5: do to protect ourselves and potentially get it to stop.
Speaker 5: And that's ultimately what happened is this detective called this person.
Speaker 5: He didn't like there have been questions about this aspect
Speaker 5: of it. We had figured out who the person was
Speaker 5: with some location tagging locations of where they were and
Speaker 5: basically gave this detective a massive binder of everything and
Speaker 5: of like the evidence we had. He wasn't like actually
Speaker 5: taking this on as a case and doing the detective work.
Speaker 5: He like, I filed a report and he was like,
Speaker 5: there is enough here if you wanted to. I don't
Speaker 5: even know what the terms are that you would know
Speaker 5: like file a crime or like get a warrant or
Speaker 5: whatever and.
Speaker 2: Like potentially be able to press charges if they can
Speaker 2: find enough evidence.
Speaker 5: I guess yeah, like get a warrant for this person's
Speaker 5: computers and and working with their state authority. It was
Speaker 5: just like no, I literally just wanted to stop, and
Speaker 5: so the detective just called this person and.
Speaker 4: It stopped.
Speaker 5: But I always wondered, like, yeah, is this person going
Speaker 5: to show up? I was seemed Oh sorry, I was
Speaker 5: just gonna say they seemed very obsessed. So that's not
Speaker 5: a good feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something I've been really interested to ask you
Speaker 2: about because it's there was so much trust involved in
Speaker 2: this whole story leading up to the point where you
Speaker 2: decided to do this podcast. Trust both ways. You know,
Speaker 2: you trusted Beth to be properly interacting with you. She
Speaker 2: trusted you. You know, this person trusted you not to
Speaker 2: press charges or get warrants around. Why did you feel
Speaker 2: it got to that point that you you trusted that
Speaker 2: they were just going to stop. You'd been so terrified,
Speaker 2: he said, you, you know, to scrub your social media
Speaker 2: of your kids. But what was there just kind of
Speaker 2: some deep belief. Was it the parasocial relationship you'd had
Speaker 2: with this person, albeit through false identities online, that you
Speaker 2: did have that trust there with them?
Speaker 5: I never felt it until doing the full podcast.
Speaker 4: Now now I do. Sorry.
Speaker 5: I that's part of why we had to stop doing
Speaker 5: the podcast is because I didn't anytime a question came
Speaker 5: in that was even like kind of interesting, I thought
Speaker 5: it was that this person and that makes for a
Speaker 5: really shitty podcast. I feel bad, especially our patrons who
Speaker 5: were like supporting us were like.
Speaker 4: Oh god, it's really right, Yeah, yeah, we're just like
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 5: I do feel like all of my answers started to
Speaker 5: become like you should talk to a therapist, like you
Speaker 5: shouldn't be reaching alone. Yeah, but I and there was
Speaker 5: one question and I actually feel bad about it now,
Speaker 5: but I remember it came in and we popular on
Speaker 5: the podcast were like, I don't think this is real.
Speaker 5: And the person wrote in like it was a little
Speaker 5: unhinged also, but the person wrote in like so offended,
Speaker 5: and you know, she was traumatized, and I was like certain,
Speaker 5: And there were other things like she used double spaces,
Speaker 5: she did all of these things that that person did.
Speaker 5: And now upon, I mean, I believe that it wasn't
Speaker 5: that person. So I do feel kind of bad looking
Speaker 5: back on that. But we were just so like hyper vigilanty.
Speaker 2: What did you not want to press charge or get
Speaker 2: the warrant? It's such a terrifying experience that you went through.
Speaker 2: What made you was it the feeling of not really
Speaker 2: thinking it had become a crime yet.
Speaker 5: Maybe I mean I feel like, uh, I had been
Speaker 5: reassured by the detective kind of that.
Speaker 4: And I think you hear this on the podcast.
Speaker 5: The people who do this sort of thing almost never,
Speaker 5: I mean there are exceptions, but almost never actually show
Speaker 5: up like they're kind of cowardly behind keyboards or whatever
Speaker 5: it is.
Speaker 4: And so and I'm not in the business of like.
Speaker 5: Ruining people's lives or you know, I just like this
Speaker 5: person had a family. I didn't want to mess you know,
Speaker 5: I didn't want to ruin the family's life. They had
Speaker 5: nothing to do with this, and it wasn't a crime.
Speaker 3: It was so.
Speaker 5: Horrific in my opinion that this person needed to be
Speaker 5: locked up or was like such a danger. I also
Speaker 5: I was Also it came with shame of like I
Speaker 5: fell for something, I got duped, and I trusted that No,
Speaker 5: like other people, I now know this is not right,
Speaker 5: but at the time, I thought, no one else is
Speaker 5: getting duped like this. So I wasn't like worried that
Speaker 5: this was necessarily happening to other people to the same degree.
Speaker 5: And I did even then recognize as this perfect storm
Speaker 5: of we have this public right into us, and I
Speaker 5: was this person who would engage. And so, yeah, I
Speaker 5: never really caught I never really seriously contemplating contemplated pressing charges,
Speaker 5: especially when the detective was like, I'll just call him
Speaker 5: and scare the shit out of him, and that's what happened.
Speaker 5: So then I thought, I thought, oh, if it continued,
Speaker 5: then we'll have to get serious. But if it stops
Speaker 5: at least on the surface, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: There was a point as well, when you realize that
Speaker 1: Beth did not die from suicide and that you'd been
Speaker 1: kind of living with this.
Speaker 3: Was was it.
Speaker 1: Anger that took over when you found out that you'd
Speaker 1: kind of been through this all through a you know,
Speaker 1: a different person than you thought, or was it was
Speaker 1: it relief?
Speaker 3: What do you remember kind of what you felt?
Speaker 1: And also it's like, when did you tell your partner
Speaker 1: that you'd been having this relationship over email with talking
Speaker 1: to someone?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I think I think I told him either when I
Speaker 5: found out that she died or when we were looking
Speaker 5: at the IP addresses. I don't think he knew the
Speaker 5: extent of it. And honestly, I didn't really know the
Speaker 5: extent of it until doing this podcast and looking back
Speaker 5: and be like, oh my god, I was replying at
Speaker 5: like three a m. You know, so intense. So I think.
Speaker 4: I was really that no one died by suicide. I
Speaker 4: mean that was but.
Speaker 5: I was pissed off that had my friend Tammy not
Speaker 5: like set my head straight, I would have gone on
Speaker 5: forever thinking like having this guilt.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I was.
Speaker 5: I was a lot of feelings, and then I was
Speaker 5: mostly just scared and I felt so guilty, like having
Speaker 5: two little kids and feeling like I hadn't done right
Speaker 5: by them all the way, Like I felt really guilty.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, when I mean, this is a major spoiler.
Speaker 1: But you found out that the person who you thought
Speaker 1: it was, So you had this preconceived idea from the
Speaker 1: research you'd done. A VIP addresses that it was this person,
Speaker 1: and you know, I could imagine myself in that situation
Speaker 1: going okay, I kind of put that to bed.
Speaker 3: I know who that person is.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go straight in Georgia going knock on the door.
Speaker 1: But but for you, when you realize that you know
Speaker 1: it is someone that you didn't think it was, it's
Speaker 1: a completely different person. There's a there's a phone call
Speaker 1: that happens, and you're not involved in the phone call
Speaker 1: at first, in the in the confrontation. How did you
Speaker 1: feel meeting the person who had kind of done all
Speaker 1: of this, the instigator of it. Did you were you
Speaker 1: kind of scared to get on that call to talk
Speaker 1: to them for the first time.
Speaker 4: It's interesting.
Speaker 5: I was so scared when we like initially reached out
Speaker 5: and I was like, are we really doing this?
Speaker 4: I was scared for them.
Speaker 5: At one point in tai Monica was going to go
Speaker 5: with someone else to confront them, and I was scared
Speaker 5: about that. I was like, oh that whenever that is,
Speaker 5: I'm not sleeping. I'm going to be just like a
Speaker 5: bundle of nerves. But the way this person responded and
Speaker 5: was willing to do it made me feel like, like,
Speaker 5: you know, we in an email and he wrote back,
Speaker 5: I'm not really keen to visit the darkest time of
Speaker 5: my life or something like that, which that I was like, Okay,
Speaker 5: he's not denying. I mean he he seemed like he
Speaker 5: was willing to have like a real conversation about it,
Speaker 5: which was shocking to me given my own parasocial relationship
Speaker 5: with him, because I had tracked him over the years,
Speaker 5: like I always kind of kept an eye on him and.
Speaker 4: Didn't like him, and he, like my.
Speaker 5: Ideas of who he was didn't totally match up with that.
Speaker 5: So I was like, Okay, that's interesting. And then you know,
Speaker 5: I don't know what you want to say or not say,
Speaker 5: but that all made sense pretty quick, So I guess.
Speaker 2: A question I've got. I suppose we're talking about eight
Speaker 2: years of time of back and forth and lie and
Speaker 2: deception and confusion. Listening to that episode nine of the podcast,
Speaker 2: there is a lot of belief straight away. What why
Speaker 2: my entire question why?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know that and there are I know there
Speaker 5: are great theories out there, and listen, they've been illuminating.
Speaker 5: Also because it's so funny, like we put this out.
Speaker 5: Never in a million did we think that there would
Speaker 5: be any doubt about that, But that's been you know,
Speaker 5: I thought people would have other issues.
Speaker 2: Also, I think I want to say, so you don't
Speaker 2: think I'm not doubting, and I'm really interested as from
Speaker 2: probably and probably people who consume so much true crime
Speaker 2: of going people live, people these So what was it
Speaker 2: that made you really wholeheartedly just believe straight away and
Speaker 2: not be cynical and burnt by what this person had
Speaker 2: done to you before?
Speaker 5: I think I think it was a couple of factors.
Speaker 5: One that he was willing to speak to us so openly.
Speaker 5: That was the other thing is we were kind of
Speaker 5: shocked that he was game, and we thought we'd have
Speaker 5: to like trick him into you know, speaking with us
Speaker 5: and so we already had a sense of like appreciation
Speaker 5: almost that he was willing to do this and wanted
Speaker 5: to be respectful. And because that's I mean, say what
Speaker 5: you will about anyone, that's very brave to do, I think,
Speaker 5: to be willing to.
Speaker 4: Own up to something and.
Speaker 5: Obviously a very uncomfortable conversation for all of us, but
Speaker 5: I think like for him especially, and then just the
Speaker 5: way he came across now he might have been manipulating us.
Speaker 5: I still am not like one hundred percent on a
Speaker 5: couple things. I'm a high percentage about most of it.
Speaker 5: But like I think if there was manipulation during that call,
Speaker 5: it just came from a place of embarrassment and shame.
Speaker 5: And all I wanted out of that was to not
Speaker 5: be scared of him anymore. And like, no matter how
Speaker 5: you how the cookie crumbles, I'm not like if it's him,
Speaker 5: if it's whatever, if he was telling the full truth
Speaker 5: or half truth or none of it was true, I
Speaker 5: just don't find him a threat anymore.
Speaker 4: And so that was such a weightlifted.
Speaker 5: Yes, one hundred percent got closure, and he the other
Speaker 5: thing is he was I believe like, no, he didn't
Speaker 5: remember a lot of things which to be fair, I
Speaker 5: didn't either until we went through all of everything.
Speaker 4: It was like, oh right, we did.
Speaker 5: A nude photoshoot stuff like that. I had completely forgotten.
Speaker 5: He So I don't know if that was true or not,
Speaker 5: but I could see it being true. I could see
Speaker 5: it not being true. But he was remorseful. He was
Speaker 5: not going, he was not there to defend himself. He
Speaker 5: and I think that also really moved all of us,
Speaker 5: Like I think that.
Speaker 4: So and you know, we talk about this. We had
Speaker 4: to change his.
Speaker 5: Voice and just seeing him and we were also I mean,
Speaker 5: I guess, can I do the big spoiler?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: So it wasn't who we thought it was. It was
Speaker 5: his son, and he looks a lot like who we
Speaker 5: thought it was also, but the younger version there was
Speaker 5: like a long silence that we edited out because it
Speaker 5: was too long and confusing, but where we were all
Speaker 5: just like, I mean, Andy and Monica who were on
Speaker 5: with him, were just like it was so such a
Speaker 5: mind fuck, yes, like and then finding our footing, you know,
Speaker 5: they had to find their footing and as asking him questions,
Speaker 5: but it was like really jarring, really really jarring. So
Speaker 5: I think that was another reason that we were just
Speaker 5: kind of like I think we talked about it where
Speaker 5: we're like, no, we're sorry.
Speaker 2: That was great, and that was such a good insight
Speaker 2: and into human character of going. You know, I joke
Speaker 2: before I'd be going in guns blazing like I would,
Speaker 2: and then you're confronted with something like this, and I
Speaker 2: think it's a really good lesson in not doing that
Speaker 2: and taking the time to stop, step back and think.
Speaker 2: And again, you know, people listening to this will be
Speaker 2: listening because it's a true crime podcast and or that
Speaker 2: they've seen the episode name of this one and want
Speaker 2: to hear from you. But we do talk a lot.
Speaker 2: The reason we talk about the crimes is because we
Speaker 2: know they've happened. They've got some kind of resolution in
Speaker 2: most points, so we can go in going this fucking
Speaker 2: guy and how gross and now we know they were lying.
Speaker 2: But this is really the opposite of that. It's feeling
Speaker 2: like there is a that has happened, could have happened,
Speaker 2: may happen. We're not sure if it's a crime or not,
Speaker 2: So you're going to go in from that kind of
Speaker 2: investigative level, but not treating it as a crime. And
Speaker 2: I think maybe that's been a good lesson for I
Speaker 2: was gonna say, Samy's looking at me, going no g
Speaker 2: for you, I'm just an angry person.
Speaker 1: But I you know, I did a comedy show this year, Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: about you know, just complicated people, you know, and and
Speaker 1: the thing that I talk about a lot is because
Speaker 1: it's about addicts, and I talk about, you know, my
Speaker 1: relationship with addicts over the years, and that hurt people,
Speaker 1: hurt people, you know, and and there's not.
Speaker 2: Always funny funny show, but.
Speaker 3: There's what a great bit.
Speaker 1: But there's there's a lot of gray area in everything.
Speaker 1: Not everything black and white, there's a lot of gray.
Speaker 1: And I think what was really interesting is that you
Speaker 1: can you can't get all the answers all the time,
Speaker 1: and that for me, like Gee was saying that can
Speaker 1: be really frustrating because you're kind of going, but what
Speaker 1: do you mean? You don't remember because it was so
Speaker 1: pivotal to you. I've had friends of mine say I
Speaker 1: remember when you said this years ago, and it really
Speaker 1: stuck with me and I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't remember saying that at all.
Speaker 1: But for you to to actually do this and go,
Speaker 1: oh wow, like this is everything, This is kind of
Speaker 1: a closed chapter for me? Really, did you know, has
Speaker 1: there been a point where you've been like and another
Speaker 1: thing like, yeah, have you wanted to kind of reach
Speaker 1: back out? And have there been moments when you've been like,
Speaker 1: not reach back out and be their friends? But you know,
Speaker 1: have there been a moment when you've been like.
Speaker 3: Oh, but what about that? What about this? What about
Speaker 3: that time?
Speaker 2: Especially because of the shock during that initial call, were
Speaker 2: there things you thought, Oh, we didn't ask and that
Speaker 2: now it's settled down a bit. I wish we had.
Speaker 4: Maybe, but no.
Speaker 5: It's so funny because I think everyone kind of operates differently,
Speaker 5: just how you're saying, like, you know, you want to
Speaker 5: go in guns blazing, and Sam has a different you know,
Speaker 5: he does a.
Speaker 4: Comedy show about it.
Speaker 5: I feel like all I wanted out of it was
Speaker 5: to not feel scared anymore, and I got it, and
Speaker 5: I kind of it. Kind of what I realized was
Speaker 5: like all of those details didn't super matter anyway. It
Speaker 5: was really interesting to us, and it would have been
Speaker 5: interesting to get like his take or perspective on certain things.
Speaker 5: Now there are some things that he his response to
Speaker 5: some things that I'm like, I don't know if that's right,
Speaker 5: or if that comes from covering because you're embarrassed or what.
Speaker 4: So like.
Speaker 5: There are still question marks, of course, but I think
Speaker 5: that is the thing. You're not going to have all
Speaker 5: the answers, and a lot of people don't have answers
Speaker 5: to things way more intense than this, and you know,
Speaker 5: you still have to live your life. And so my
Speaker 5: hope is that the takeaway is kind of this, like
Speaker 5: you don't know everything, and you're maybe not going to
Speaker 5: know everything, but all you can do is like find
Speaker 5: your own peace in the way that you need to.
Speaker 5: And I feel like this doing this podcast gave me
Speaker 5: that where I hadn't even though it had ended almost
Speaker 5: a decade earlier, I hadn't been able to like feel
Speaker 5: peace at peace with it. So and for that, I'm
Speaker 5: so grateful to him. We reached back out one more time,
Speaker 5: just thanking him, and the vibe was definitely like.
Speaker 4: Like we're never talking, you know.
Speaker 5: It was definitely like a goodbye and be well or
Speaker 5: wish you well type.
Speaker 4: Thing and not. I mean, maybe we were a little
Speaker 4: bit too like thank you so much. I don't know,
Speaker 4: because it is.
Speaker 5: Funny we did that, and I felt a certain way
Speaker 5: about it, and then we spent months editing this and
Speaker 5: like compiling and you know, even though it sounds very
Speaker 5: not edited, which it's not in many ways, but just
Speaker 5: like you know, you know, it's like you're putting a
Speaker 5: podcast out there, there's lots of stuff to be done,
Speaker 5: and listening back through all of it so many times
Speaker 5: I kind of like started to feel like that was
Speaker 5: really bad, that was really messed up what happened.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I think that the complication of humanity is just like
Speaker 5: on display in this and.
Speaker 4: My hope.
Speaker 5: Everyone's had really different reactions and some people are like,
Speaker 5: there's no justice and you know there it's like all
Speaker 5: across and some people are like, it's so cool that
Speaker 5: you guys are laughing earlier when you know what the
Speaker 5: ending is. You know, there's like it's all across the board.
Speaker 5: And at the end of the day, I'm just like
Speaker 5: it's making people think and feel and that's the best.
Speaker 4: That's the best thing, I think.
Speaker 1: So I didn't kind of have one more question really
Speaker 1: about you know, you said that you said kind of
Speaker 1: a funnel good bye, So you have no idea if
Speaker 1: he's listened to the podcast or if one of the
Speaker 1: aliases have.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Anders is on a treadle.
Speaker 4: Yeah he I I feel like he probably has.
Speaker 5: I don't know, and I think that that would probably
Speaker 5: be hard for someone and also to not be able
Speaker 5: to like speak to.
Speaker 4: It or you know.
Speaker 5: My instinct is always to like yes, even even I
Speaker 5: mean it's like I haven't learned my lesson, even like
Speaker 5: the responses, I want to kind of jump and be like, oh,
Speaker 5: actually you know, and Andy's like, you can't. I also
Speaker 5: want to say that over the response has been overwhelmingly
Speaker 5: so positive and supportive, and we've heard from people who
Speaker 5: were like I was weeping at the and like, you know.
Speaker 5: So I don't mean to just point out the kind
Speaker 5: of extreme responses, but I would guess he has listened.
Speaker 5: Although I mean this comes with like, what did I
Speaker 5: really believe? I think before it was out, I would
Speaker 5: have guessed he hadn't. And now that it's out and
Speaker 5: we've heard like from people's different perspectives, I think he
Speaker 5: probably has.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that reminds me A really big bit for me,
Speaker 2: and listening to your podcast is when the three of
Speaker 2: you were discussing whether he when you emailed him, whether
Speaker 2: he'd email back or not, and you and Monica are
Speaker 2: really adamant that he wouldn't, and Andy straight up said
Speaker 2: he absolutely will, He absolutely will. This is everything we
Speaker 2: know about him is that he wants his contact, and
Speaker 2: that's kind of what you're saying now. On the other
Speaker 2: side as well, I think I believe what Andy said
Speaker 2: in that about listening back to this podcast. Now, he's
Speaker 2: that kind of or at least at some point in
Speaker 2: his life, has been that kind of person where he's
Speaker 2: wanted to interact, He's wanted to hear his words through
Speaker 2: Anders or Frank or Beth or whoever it were. I
Speaker 2: personally think he would have listened also, maybe maybe in
Speaker 2: a form of kind of preparing for some kind of
Speaker 2: self defense if someone works out it was him and
Speaker 2: he wants to know what's being said.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I yes, I agree. Andy is so
Speaker 5: annoying that marriage like he he always like he's he
Speaker 5: gets it right. A frustrating amount of times where I'm
Speaker 5: like there's no way, and he's like it is, and
Speaker 5: he just has this knowing and then.
Speaker 4: Of course he's fucking right.
Speaker 5: But this was a good example of, like, I think
Speaker 5: everything you said is right. He now the person we
Speaker 5: spoke with mentioned a huge part of this was addiction,
Speaker 5: and that there and that's no longer.
Speaker 4: A part of their life.
Speaker 5: So that's the only thing that I'm like, if it's
Speaker 5: so compartmentalized, maybe maybe.
Speaker 4: But you know, he might be listening to it. You
Speaker 4: guys might have a new fan fan.
Speaker 2: Please do leave a five start writing fast review.
Speaker 1: And oh, Lizabeth, thank you so much for taking the
Speaker 1: time to talk to us where we just loved listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast and thinking about it.
Speaker 3: Really made me think about it.
Speaker 2: We've had so many discussions, the two of us sitting
Speaker 2: down just chatting about it ourselves. I know that everyone
Speaker 2: who's listened has been doing this and this is why
Speaker 2: we wanted to chat to you, just to have another
Speaker 2: excuse to have a conversation about it. It was fantastic,
Speaker 2: So congratulation and thank you for sharing. Thank you thus
Speaker 2: us being the world of podcast listeners, but us being
Speaker 2: the two of us as well and our listeners.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5: This was a delight And yeah, I really appreciate this
Speaker 5: and this was which a positive. I'm glad I was
Speaker 5: on my first true crime podcast as not a purp.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but if or when the time comes,
Speaker 2: we'd love to interview you.
Speaker 3: Absolutely whatever crime you commit. Thank you.
Speaker 1: And where do people find you? Elizabeth as well? And
Speaker 1: you know, obviously Beth's dead, they can search on all
Speaker 1: the apps. But but yeah, where do people find you?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm at Elizabeth lame on Instagram as la I
Speaker 5: am Georgia your love.
Speaker 2: Yes, yep, not made up.
Speaker 5: We have so my last name is the loved one
Speaker 5: in French actually, so we have.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and my best friend's name is Elizabeth, so
Speaker 2: there we go. Oh no, you look at us. We're
Speaker 2: making a parasocial relationship. No back off.
Speaker 5: But oh and then also Andy's in My podcast is
Speaker 5: called Nobody's Listening, right, and it's once a week. He
Speaker 5: and I talk as a married couple. I mean not
Speaker 5: about marriage really, but it's us talking like no one's listening,
Speaker 5: and we do really keep it pretty true to that.
Speaker 4: So tune in there and that's it.
Speaker 3: You're amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us and being the
Speaker 1: first crime podcast that you've been.
Speaker 3: On as well for us.
Speaker 2: I'm overjoyed with that.
Speaker 3: That was authentic.
Speaker 5: Yeah really hit Yeah, thank you, thank you,