1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Now. We have been saying we're going to catch up 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: with him all morning, and I am very pleased to 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: say that joining me on the line right now he 4 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: is off that flight and able to have a chat 5 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: to us. It is Paul McHugh, the president of the 6 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Police Association. Good morning to you, Paul. 7 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. How are you very well mate? 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with us. I 9 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: know that you're in between flights and it's been a 10 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: bit of a challenge this morning to get you on 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: the line, so we really appreciate you having a chat 12 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: with us now. It is a very important topic. I 13 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: think the Northern Territory Police Association is calling for the 14 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: Northern Territory Government to urgently commit to the three hundred 15 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: additional officers needed to meet policing demands, as outlined by 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: the Deputy Commissioner Murray Smallpage during this week's coronial proceedings 17 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: in Alice Springs. Paul, was it a bit of a 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: relief to hear exactly how many police we are short? 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I think for a long time, Katie, as 20 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: you know, and members have made it very very clear 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: through multiple surveys just how under the pump they are 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: out there on the road, how understaff they feel. So 23 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: to finally see a number put forward, and some will 24 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: obviously say that the very ambitious number, but when you're 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: talking about the demands on policing in twenty twenty three, 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: clearly there's a significant boost that's required, and now we 27 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: have a number to look to look at, which is 28 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: a positive start at least. 29 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Now it's not the only number to look at. He 30 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: also mentioned I believe five hundred million dollars on infrastructure. 31 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: I think this is an admission that for many, many years, 32 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: probably well over a decade, the lack of investment in 33 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: permanent infrastructure for policing, you know, primarily in our regional 34 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: remote areas, has floundered at best. There's been very little 35 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: Northern Territory government government money listed into infrastructure over that 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: period of time. So it sounds like a lot of money, 37 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: but you've got to think it was two thousand and 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: seventy intervention come in, shipping containers lobbed onto the ground, 39 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: and here we are still utilizing those completely non fit 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: for purpose facilities. So this is not a surprise to 41 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 2: us at all. 42 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's a surprise really to anybody 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: that there is a massive investment needed when it comes 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: to infrastructure, but also when it comes to the policing shortfall. Now, Paul, 45 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: on Monday, the Chief Minister joined us on the show 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: and she said that hundreds of police officers are on 47 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: sick leave. She refused to confirm the exact number. But Paul, 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: are we in a situation here where we need three 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: hundred officers because we've got such a large number of 50 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: police on sick leaf. 51 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's an exaggeration to say there's hundreds. 52 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: There is over one hundred, there's no doubt on various 53 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 2: types of long term and short leave. And remember some 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: of those have accepted workers compensation, you know it matters. 55 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 2: So that indicates yourself that there's been an unhealthy work 56 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: environment for some time. So you can't just lob everyone 57 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 2: in the same bucket and say, well, all these people 58 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: are off on sick leave and that's the problem. That's 59 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: simply an exaggeration. And when you talk about additional police numbers, Katie, 60 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: you've got to remember it's not just one. You need. 61 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: You need tree to cover one. People need leave, people 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: need time off, and you need to be able to 63 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: deploy them, you know where we definitely need them the most. 64 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: So sick leave is not the problem here. When you've 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: got a lack of resourcing, which our members have made 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: quite were for some time, those people left to do 67 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: the work are ultimately going to get burnt out, aren't they. 68 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: They cannot keep turning up and working so much over 69 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: time without eventually falling over. So that's what we've say. 70 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: Paul. Have you had the opportunity to meet with the 71 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: Police Minister since those survey results were released and are 72 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: we going to see any movement in this space. 73 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, we had a quick chat over the phone. 74 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: We haven't been able to meet in person just yet, 75 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: and I hope to do that next week. But certainly 76 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: we've made our position very clear. For some time, no 77 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: one wanted to commit numbers on a page, and obviously 78 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: we've got the budget coming up and people now our 79 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: position on this. There needs to be a commitment from government. 80 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: I've made that abundantly clear to the Minister. Now three hundred, 81 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: I guess is a lot, but certainly there needs to 82 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: be an urgent look into the resourcing model for policing 83 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: because demands have changed enormously in the last. 84 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: Decade, so we are obviously short on police, yet there 85 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: are There has been a thirty percent increase, of course 86 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: in total crime, one hundred and twenty six percent increase 87 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: in domestic and family violence, and fifty two percent increase 88 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: in unlawful entries over the past decade. That was what 89 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: was highlighted by the Deputy Commissioner at the inquest. Paul, 90 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: what impact is that escalation of crime having on. 91 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: Police said, it's overwhelming to be frank, I mean you 92 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: talk to police on the ground. We've been in Atlas 93 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: Springs earlier this week talking to a group of members there. 94 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: We're in casual in a station last week, we'll be 95 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: down in katriin tomorrow. As the feedback is consistent across 96 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: the board, this increasing crime has enormous effects on their 97 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 2: ability to do their job properly, and of course the 98 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: community then feel life is not enough police because they 99 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: ring they can't come for sometimes days and that's not 100 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: the police's fault. That's for government's responsibility to have enough 101 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: to do the job. 102 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: Paul. I'm very aware that you're short on time, but 103 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: I do just want to touch on I know that 104 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: you told members of the association yesterday that you're not 105 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: going to be putting your hand up for another term 106 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: as the president of the association. Eight years I believe 107 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: it's been that you've been in that role. Why did 108 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: you make this decision? 109 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously it's not an easy one to make. 110 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: I've been with the association over ten years now, eight 111 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: years as president, and you know, it is the election cycle. 112 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: It's a four year term, and you know, after a 113 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: lot of thought and you know it, it was a 114 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 2: hard decision. But ultimately, if you can't commit to another 115 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: four year term, I think it's time to move on 116 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: and allow someone else that opportunity. It's the greatest job 117 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: I've ever had, but you know, sometimes you've just got 118 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: to make that call. And the time is right with 119 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: the election cycle. 120 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: Well, will you be staying on up until the you 121 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: know this pay you know this pay dispute, I guess 122 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: you'd call it is sorted out. 123 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I certainly have made that commitment to members. 124 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 2: We know we want to get this deal done. We 125 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: have been having some positive discussions with government over the 126 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: last week or two, and I've made that commitment to 127 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: the members that I want this jun before I leave 128 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: and hopefully that's you know, in the next month or so. 129 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: What's the process in terms of finding a replacement for you. 130 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: It's just an election, social Katie. So any financial member 131 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: of the Police Association can nominate to become president. We've 132 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: got the president president's roll as well as well as 133 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: several other executive positions up for election, and you know, 134 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: people can just nominate if they feel they'd like to 135 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: give it a go. But you know, obviously we've got 136 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: a really good structure in place. We've got a great 137 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: executive and staff, so whoever takes that role on will 138 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: have plenty of supporting place to keep the membership, you know, 139 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: membership or in wiries going. 140 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: Paul. I have got a message here from one of 141 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: our listeners. It says it's very sad that Paul's not 142 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: staying on as the president of the Northern Territory Police Association. 143 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: It's a huge loss for police and civilians alike. What 144 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: a fantastic leader he's been. Thank you, thank you, thank you, 145 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: says that message. 146 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: Incredibly humbling to get those sort of messages, and you know, 147 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: we try and do our job as best as we can. 148 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: We know, we you know, I'll certainly try to do 149 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: it as best as I can, and sometimes you don't 150 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: get it right. As long as you learn from that 151 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: and keep growing and keep your organization evolving, and that's 152 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: the important thing. And as I've said, there's no greater 153 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: job than I've had than representing you know, the members 154 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: that I believe are the most courageous people out in 155 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: our workforce. They go every day to work to keep 156 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: our community and it is a very humbling experience. I'm 157 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: certainly going to miss this well. 158 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association President Paul mcute, no doubt, we'll 159 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: talk to you before you finish up, mate, Thank you 160 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: very much for having a chat with us this morning. 161 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely thanks Cattie, thank you.