WEBVTT - Keith Banks - THE TRAITORS - Reality TV Contestants 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.600 TV Reload the podcast past week that might welcome back 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:06.800 guys to TV Reload. As you may know, my name 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:09.239 is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast to get 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.720 all the inside goss on the popular TV shows you 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.720 may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.040 sets are a major part of our home entertainment, and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.800 yet very little is known about how our favorite shows 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.400 get made. So each episode I've been finding guests that 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:24.400 want to dive just that little bit deeper into those 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:26.800 shows they currently making, so that you can hear all 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.880 their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.320 in Australian television. I want to thank you for downloading 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.120 or subscribing to this podcast however you found me. I 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.239 love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave a 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.680 review or a comment on your chosen podcast platform. On 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.360 today's podcast, I have Keith Banks here to talk about 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.280 his time on The Traders, which has been a brilliantly 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.559 cast season on Network ten and we'll have its finale 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.880 on Sunday night. Keith Banks is one of Queensland's most 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.160 decorated police officers. He was in the Queensland Police Force 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.080 for twenty years from nineteen seventy five to ninety five. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.640 He was un to cover during the most notoriously corrupt 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.760 period in Queensland's history, and has gone on to write 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.720 two very successful books about his career of that time. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.200 As the best selling author, Keith has made a huge 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.600 impact as a public speaker and life coach discussing mental health, 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.000 and like myself, many people might not even know that 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.880 they've come across his work over the years. We will 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.080 mainly talk about The Traders, but I want you guys 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.520 to know that there is so much more to Keith, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.080 and I suggest searching for his guest appearances on other 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.520 podcasts because he has so much to offer, which would 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:32.560 have been really hard to include. In this sort of 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.440 exit interview like the ones I've been doing for The Traders, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.160 I will ask Keith about his casting on the show 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.840 and if he applied or if the producers sought him 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.560 out due to his backstory. We will unpack the first 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.399 few weeks, the twists and the turns, what he thought 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.320 of most of his competitors, and he will even reveal 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.120 who he would like to win. Keith will also share 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.320 what he learned about himself during the show, and we 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.720 will also unpack the difficult nature of reality TV and 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.720 how using his skill set didn't always translate to the 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.920 type of people he was cast up against. Plus, we 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:06.520 will get plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes of 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.520 The Traders season two, which, as I mentioned, finishes this 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.080 Sunday night at seven thirty on Network ten, and you 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.240 can catch up on ten Play if you've fallen just 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.920 that little bit behind. Anyway, let's bring Keith into the 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.480 podcast and guys, I really hope you enjoy this very 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.320 insightful episode of TV reload. Hi, Keith, how are you? 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.720 I'm very well, Ben, very well, How are you? 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.520 I'm very well. I also wanted to ask you straight away, 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:30.920 where did you get the green like Hawaiian shirt that 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.280 you're wearing. I'm curious to know. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.000 I have a number of floral shirts. Mate. 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.040 When I think of a retired police officer, I think 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.480 of them wearing a green shirt like that. So I 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.160 don't really purely know if that's the right disguise. 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.240 No, I don't think well, particularly in Queensland, there's not 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:47.359 too many of them who do. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.520 So hints I'm copying a fear bit of friendly banter 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:51.720 from my former colleagues. 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.079 Well, is it wrong of me now to then start 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.280 on my first question being how the hell are there 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.800 three traders and two faithfuls left on this show? 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.640 Well, that's a great question. I know what my strategy was, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.960 and we will have a chat about that. But I 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.919 just think Sam's playing a very, very good game. I 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:10.920 suspect he may be a little too clever for his 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.040 own good. You know, when you've got someone like Blake 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.160 who's just such an affable, lovable guy, it's He certainly 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.320 was never a my radar, and I don't think he's 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.680 on too many other people's either, because he just doesn't 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.440 portray himself any other way than what he was when 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:26.120 he first arrived. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:26.840 Like minute one. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.000 It's interesting for us as a viewer because the whole 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.120 process of this show is that we are in on 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:32.799 the joke. That's the way I like to see it. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.280 So for us it seems really obvious. 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:36.320 Yeah, for sure. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.400 Look I look back on it now myself and think, Wow, 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.600 there's things like the nuances, the facial features, the tisi expressions, 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.640 et cetera. But I think it's important for people to 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.160 understand that or realize that in that banishment room a 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:53.240 lot is going on and you're not actually staring at 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.120 someone the whole whatever period of. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:56.840 Time it takes to get to the vote. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.680 So, and a lot of other people were shiftfty as well. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.640 I guess probably myself included. But yeah, it's one of 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.480 those things that it looks easy from the outside, but 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.200 when you're in the middle of that whole bubble, it's 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:11.040 a different ballgame. 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.600 The casting of the show is brilliant because when you 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.280 look at the show all around the world, what we 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.520 do notice is that they find people who come across 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:19.200 a bit shifty. 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.760 Yeah. Look, that's human nature though, you know, and my background, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.360 my background, particularly in policing, one of the unintended consequences 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.040 was that I became quite jayed, not didn't trust anybody 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.360 at all. And I think this is a great example 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.159 as well of human nature. You know, everybody is capable 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.760 of duplicity, regardless of how nice you are. We've all 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:39.560 got it within us. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.720 Well, I want to get into all of this, So 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:45.240 what an experience to do the traders, I think it's 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.760 very exciting for you. Did you think when you signed 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:49.480 up to it that you would get as fire in 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:50.600 the competition as you did. 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:51.640 That's a good question. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.600 I've said to all of my friends and family that, hey, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.840 I wanted to make one breakfast because that breakfast look 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.920 damn good. And really it was something I'd never done before. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:03.159 You know, I've done a hell of a lot in 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.520 my life on reflection, but this was something I'd never 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.560 done before, which made me a bit nervous, which was 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.039 why I was so keen to do it, if that 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.400 makes sense, Because I was just getting into an area 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.919 that i'd had reality television, never any exposure to apart 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.560 from watching it, and I thought, yeah, I've got a 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:21.920 bit of a plan. I think I can go a 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:26.240 reasonable way. But being a realist, I never set my 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.479 sights on completing it. I just took it literally day 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:29.839 to day. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:31.839 How does the show like this come up for someone 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:33.960 like you? I mean, I can't imagine you're applying for 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.560 this show. I feel like they would have come for 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.120 you to put you in this experience because of your experience, 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:40.720 so to speak. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.760 Yeah, I was approached. I was approached via one of 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.800 Victoria's most well known crime journalists. After my two books 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.719 were published, He's written a couple of articles about me. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.200 He interviewed me in his podcast, etc. And from what 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.359 I understand, the producers came to him to look for 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.880 someone that he thought would be a good fit for 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.520 the show, and he said, I've got just the guy 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.400 you need to talk to. So then he just he 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.240 just rained me and said, hey, mate, what do you think. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.720 One of the producers had to have read your book, well, 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.040 one of your books like drugs, guns and lies, and thought, 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.040 this person's amazing for the traders. It's born for it. 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.200 I was born to be a trader. And it was 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.560 so disappointing. I wasn't tapped on the shoulder. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.080 Had I been, I can almost guarantee Ben I would 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.880 have gotten right through to the end because I just lie. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.240 My wife tells me I have an unofficial master's degree 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:28.680 in Lyne. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.480 How is she still with you? She knows this about you? 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:33.320 What's going on? 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.600 Well, yeah, that's a good question again, obviously. 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.320 Very good in the sack, because there you go, you're 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.000 going to put up with a liar every day. 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:43.680 Well, I don't lie every day. 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.279 I'm only kidding. I'm only kidding. I mean, I mean 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.039 I think it's hard as well doing a show like 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.120 this because for you your gameplay was to keep a secret, 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.200 and to keep a secret that you're a police officer 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.320 for twenty years, and to keep so much of who 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.360 you were and what you've done a secret. I'd give 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.960 myself up straight away. I can't help myself. My partner 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.120 tells me not to lie because he says, I'm the 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:06.920 person who always jobs myself in. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:08.720 That was part of the rush, though, you know, it 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.600 really did take me back to all those years ago 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:17.600 where I couldn't have any police attitudes, behaviors, signs, all 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.200 of that stuff. So I went in there with the 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.760 approach that or the story that I was a retired 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.800 corporate guy. And the secret to king a secret is 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.640 that you as a backstory, you have little bits of 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.560 truth in it. So I'd said to a couple of people, 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:36.280 you know, I'm retired, but I do conversations with corporations 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.640 around mental health, which I do because I've had some 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.200 metal health challenges, which I have. I just didn't say 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.200 it was postramatic stress disorder, so I was able. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:44.880 To carry that off. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.600 But really, really interestingly, Luke TOCKI the first minute I 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.960 met him and the very first night, looked at me 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.120 and said, have I seen you before, mate, Have you 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:55.040 been on TV? 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:56.680 And I said nah to me and. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.640 He said, oh, he said, have you been on a 0:07:58.640 --> 0:07:59.640 true crime podcast? 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:01.480 Thought, oh, man, I'm blown. 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.720 And I just know I just lied beautifully and convinced 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:06.520 him that it was wrong. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.600 And I knew who you were. That was the weird thing. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.480 So when we first got the profile pictures of everyone 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.160 that joined the cast, I saw all the photos and 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:15.760 I looked at your photo and I was like, I 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.080 know this person. And I don't want to deviate too 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.560 far from where I'm going with this point, but my 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.680 partner and I we listened to true crime podcasts to 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.120 go to sleep at night every night, right, And that's 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.120 I know, it was obviously something wrong with us, but 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.960 we've become more and more obsessed with that true crime 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.040 in Australia, and so we'd come across you a few times. 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.520 I actually think you were probably more recognizable to my 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.280 partner than Hannah and Luke. You know, my partner doesn't 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.120 watch those shows, so you know, I'm surprised that they 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.000 picked people. I felt like there might have been some 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.920 questions to make sure that people didn't know that you 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.880 were in there, and that have a media profile in 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:53.200 a way. 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.360 I don't know, because it's still it's still quite surreal 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.280 to me, Ben that I do have a media profile. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.319 It's only in the last work three years. I suppose 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.240 that since the publication on my first book that I've 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.640 been interviewed, I've done promos. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:07.400 On Channel Team. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.320 The most curious question I had for you is because 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.400 you've got Camille that's in there, and she also has 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.040 a similar background to you, and so you know she 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:18.840 didn't quite work you out and you didn't quite work 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.040 her out. Is that the case or I know, no, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.320 I knew Camille. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.000 I knew there was something about Camille early. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:24.960 You did. 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.040 Yeah, So if you look at the waterboarding and electrocution 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.720 torture game, the mission where I think the question Roger 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.280 asked was you know, to me, who do you think 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.120 is hiding something in this game? I immediately wrote down Camille, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.840 as did Blake from the other group, because I've said 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.640 to them very early there's something about her, and I 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.400 can't put my finger on it, but she's much more 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.120 than a mother. And I saw her make a hand 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.199 gesture which and you can't see it on the podcast, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.080 of course, but it's like a straight hand gesture with 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:58.319 your fingers extended, et cetera. That's how soldiers and cops 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.599 point to things, and she did, and I thought, Aha, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.120 So I knew there was something about it. But what 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.040 I loved was she had no clue about my background. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.200 At all, so she didn't work you out, but you 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:08.800 on to her. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:10.480 Yeah, I knew there was something different about it. 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.920 Yeah, okay, just the way she carried herself and the 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.319 way she spoke and the way she acted. I thought, yeah, 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.520 there's much much more to this person thing she's leading on. 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.800 It's such a strange experience because you're meeting all of 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.400 these people and as you said sort of earlier, everyone's 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.080 you're a little bit dubious of everybody. Who were the 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.720 people that you immediately had thought were the traders. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.440 Initially I was suspicious of Peydon, but when I saw 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.320 him completely almost over defend himself, I thought, yeah, this 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.079 guy's not lying. He's just trying to come up for air. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.320 Liam was in my sights. I don't know why, I 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.319 think because he sort of reminded me. 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.079 Of what I was like when I was twenty one. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:48.520 You know. 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.640 He was just observing everything and mixing between groups and whatever, 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.680 and I thought, yeah, that's a bit interesting. I was 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.240 just trying to pick up on how people were reacting 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.240 in different situations. And after Ash were banished, I looked 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.680 at Sam and thought, you are absolutely suspect, which is 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.760 why all through the game I coz it up to 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.160 him and made him think I was one of his 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.560 best friends and completely trusted him because I knew he 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.280 wasn't quite right. Blake was never on my radar because 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.200 he and I became really good friends really quickly, and 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.080 we still are, and so in that friendship, I overlooked it, 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.079 which is a good thing for my personal development now 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.600 because I realized that I do trust people and I 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.360 am able to befriend people, which is just such a 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.000 huge realization. On the other side of you know, working 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.520 through PDSD, which is a whole nother hour we could 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:37.920 talk about. 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:39.880 That's another podcast which I would listen to. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.000 H Yeah, I do talk the shameless marketing. I do 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.880 talk about it on other podcasts True Crime particularly, but 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.640 Hannah not at all. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:49.120 I don't know. 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.800 I just clicked with Hannah and she didn't change her 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:56.559 behavior one slightest bit. But certainly Sam suspect on Sam. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.480 For sure, He kind of makes the perfect cartoon villain 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.480 for a TV so I just sort of thought he's 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.400 a villain, you know, he's the trader. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:04.920 You know. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.199 I don't think he needed to have been shown those things. 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:08.679 He leaned into his villainry too. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.640 Well, yeah, but he what you're seeing, what I'm seeing 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.200 now as the show progresses with the one on ones 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.920 and the dancing down the steps of breakfast, didn't exhibit 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:18.960 any of that. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:20.480 When he was in the group. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.760 You know, he was really playing the country boy approach. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.960 What set my antenna up was I can't remember what 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.160 challenge we were going to, but he, Blake and I 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.800 were in a car and he started talking about living 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.720 in Michinos and doing marketing promos, and I thought, Pa, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.839 in a minute, I thought you were a country boy. 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.000 So that was just another plus one to the DOSSI 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.920 are as it were. But for the rest of it, 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:47.280 I was just simply kicking back, staying in the middle 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.400 of befriending everybody and just trying to just pick up 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.240 on some signs. But you know, as you know, mate, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.240 you had four months in an environment that's just such 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.520 a bubble, such an emotional challenge bubble that it is 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.240 pretty tricky to pick up on things. 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.040 Yeah, it's not the real world, and I think I 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:06.800 want to be able to highlight that, and we'll get 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:08.680 into that in a second, because I think for you 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.560 and Camille with your careers, you know, you could easily 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.000 be like, you know, maybe we're not as skilled as 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.640 we thought we were because we didn't detect or we 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.560 didn't do this, you know, and maybe we should have 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.679 had that skill set. I don't think that's a reality 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.720 because the reality TV bubble that does get creative for 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.760 these shows is not the real world. People aren't behaving 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.440 in these scenarios like they do in the real world, 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.280 like how you and Camille would have experienced criminals. 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.280 You know, for an example, normal lines of inquiry that 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.839 you do in an investigation to follow the evidence of 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:41.720 fuying the offender just don't apply. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.880 And because normal lines of inquiry would. 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.040 Be you'd sit down and talk to people and ask 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.079 them particular questions and then compare their version to others, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.360 and then you'd come back to them with a with 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:58.040 an anomaly. In this case, my main motivator was not 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.920 to be murdered, and I'd said to I think I'd 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.760 said in a couple of interviews with producers that unfortunately 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.199 writ and see, I'm simply here to survive until a 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.360 point in time where the pool of people is quite 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.120 small and they'n I'll be making a move. So I was, 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.599 you know, I was more not an investigator. I was 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.840 an undercover guy, because I was just out there just 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.040 lying to people about how wonderful they were and how 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.480 boring I was, and how much of a threat I wasn't. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.720 But I think that the show sets up everyone to 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.960 avoid their first instinct, which isn't what I believe criminals 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.360 would be doing. So like in this particular show, everyone 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.480 the whole time feels like they're under investigation, so whatever 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.840 their first instinct is, they seem to lie to themselves 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:41.960 about that to try and throw people off the sand, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.920 which means that you're an assessed pool of people who 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.440 are impossible to read. 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.400 Yeah, yeah, spot on. 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.720 It's you know, if the show had gone let's say 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.200 for four months, then it would have been much easier 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:57.800 to read people, I think, But you know, you're just 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:01.200 You're right. People are a second guessing how they're reacting, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.000 particularly in the banishment room, and I'd sit there and 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.600 watch people and you could see them holding down a 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.160 smile or trying to look more serious. So there was 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:10.600 a fair bit of overacting going on. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.000 Yeah, you know, that's so funny. Luke was saying that 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.560 in the podcast. He said his favorite thing about the 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.960 show was watching the reactions, watching the people's faces, because 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.960 their faces would keep changing, like they'd be so dramatic 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.520 and they would think that they were being really subtle, 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.960 were an actual fact, it was so dramatic that it 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.280 was comical that he was laughing, like, what is going 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.040 on with that person's face over there? That ain't normal? 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.800 Absolutely right, which makes it again and you feed the point. 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.640 It makes it really hard to detect who's acting at 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.640 normally when they're all almost vying for a try and 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.960 buy for an oscar, but not doing a very good job. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.600 But doing terribly at it, because you know, most of 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.840 the time you'll find people are on reality television because 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.880 they were terrible actors. I found some way to get 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.240 attention anyway one of them. I can't say anything, but 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.560 I just wanted to highlight the point though in all 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.680 of that, you know, Gleton said, Geiiton said that you 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.000 know the faithfuls are dumb dumbs and that stuck for 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.160 the whole series, and I can imagine that might have 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.760 hit you and Kimille hard through watching it back. 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.560 Interestingly, a lot of my friends and former colleagues have 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.720 automatically cottoned on to what my gameplay was, and as 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.760 the episodes have been shown, I've had dms and pms going, 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:27.440 you're playing. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.200 The Gray Men, make nice work. I know exactly what 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:30.760 you're up to. So they got it. 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.240 But people, I think have probably an opinion about how 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.240 police investigate, and we should have been able to find things. 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:40.520 But the other thing to remember is, and this is 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.920 going to sound harsh, I didn't really care that I 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.360 was voting for Faithfuls. I was just happy to diminish 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:50.080 the personnel pool and just stay there. So it didn't 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.000 confront me at all. And I was you know, there 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.040 were people I've voted for I knew that were Faithfuls 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:55.480 when I thought, wow, I just go along with a 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.600 bit of the group mentality here because I don't want 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.480 to stand out and on a hit. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.360 When I spoke to Ash Pollard about it, she said, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.800 you know, the game kind of works, and she saw 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.240 it working with people getting rid of the Faithfuls. You 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.000 know an actual fact, quite a few people probably had 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.400 that tactic. I know that Berth's a faithful, but I'm 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.720 just going to eliminate them first. Yeah, I don't necessarily 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.680 understand the mantra behind that, So can you explain that 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.159 a little bit? I mean Ash's perspective, she was a trader, 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.719 so maybe it works better. But for you, why are 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:27.080 you eliminating faithfuls? 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.879 Because I wanted to stay as long as I could, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.440 So it's a bit of a vex question. So say Sam, 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.280 for instance, had I gone out early like Luke and said, yep, 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:39.959 Sam's a trader, I'm going to vote for him, and 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.800 it didn't work, I wouldn't have made it to breakfast, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:47.040 So I was happy to vote for other people who 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.720 probably weren't contributing, who I thought either weren't contributing or 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.640