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Speaker 1: Well, yesterday we covered extensively the statement released by Brett Dixon,

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Speaker 1: the chairman of the Darwin Turf Club, saying that he's

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Speaker 1: launched legal action to overturn findings of the recent Eykak report. Now,

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Speaker 1: in the statement, mister Dixon claims that's the decision by

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner and his cabinet ministers to

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Speaker 1: give the Darwin Turf Club twelve million dollars was made

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Speaker 1: the same morning the club put forward its submission for

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Speaker 1: funding support. Now in the statement he said, I do

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Speaker 1: not know what material Cabinet considered beyond the submission provided

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Speaker 1: by the management of the club. The workings of cabinet

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Speaker 1: are the subject of acclaim for public interest immunity, so

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Speaker 1: they can't be inquired into and they cannot be reported

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Speaker 1: on unless, of course, the government waives that immunity. In

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Speaker 1: the interests of transparency, the leader of the opposition, Leofanocchio,

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Speaker 1: says the Chief Minister must waive cabinet confidentiality and publicly

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Speaker 1: release the document relied on by the Cabinet to approve

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Speaker 1: this twelve billion dollar grandstand deal. Leah Finocchiaro joins me

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Speaker 1: in the studio right Now good morning to.

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Speaker 2: You lead Come morning Katie into your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, you've been calling for weeks for this to happen.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that it's so important in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: that the government releases the document that they relied on

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Speaker 1: to make this decision.

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Speaker 3: Look, this sorry saga has been going on for weeks, Katie,

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Speaker 3: and it's dogging the government, and it's dogging everything that

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Speaker 3: happens from the government. I mean, it really puts a

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Speaker 3: cloud over every grant process, every decision to grant money.

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Speaker 3: We've got conflicting information coming out from government. Of course,

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Speaker 3: Natasha Files, Nicole Madison and Michael Gunner continue to lie

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Speaker 3: to Territorians that this somehow followed a normal and appropriate

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Speaker 3: cabinet process. The only way for government to clear the air,

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Speaker 3: because let's face it, no one believes their version of

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Speaker 3: events is to show Territorians what it was that went

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Speaker 3: into cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Now, it is in the public interest.

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Speaker 3: When you talk about public interest immunity, it is in

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Speaker 3: the public interest to know that the government has integrity.

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Speaker 3: It's in the public and just to know that every grant,

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Speaker 3: every decision doesn't have that cloud over it. So the

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Speaker 3: only way for Michael Gunner and his cabinet to get

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Speaker 3: out of this is to stump up some proof that

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Speaker 3: they did everything by the.

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Speaker 4: Look, I agree.

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Speaker 1: I do think that it's vital that or that it

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Speaker 1: is a vital missing piece really in this puzzle which

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Speaker 1: needs clarification. But many have raised concerns that releasing cabinet

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Speaker 1: documentation sets a precedent.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you were in government, would you.

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Speaker 1: Be happy for if let's say, you know, down the track,

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Speaker 1: if there's a decision made that territorians think is not

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Speaker 1: quite right, would you be happy to do the same thing.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's the only way forward. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you've got nothing to hide, what's the big deal.

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Speaker 3: If this really genuinely did get circulated to all departments,

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Speaker 3: have all of the department feedback, Ministers were briefed, if

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Speaker 3: it followed all of the processes, which you know, Katie,

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Speaker 3: anyone can just find on the website.

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Speaker 2: It's in the Cabinet handbook, it's online.

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Speaker 3: You can see the cabinet process, or what's supposed to

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Speaker 3: be the cabinet process.

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Speaker 2: Then what have they got to heide?

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Speaker 3: I mean, we haven't had any of them, say not

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Speaker 3: even which departments provided feedback, What the nature of the

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Speaker 3: feedback was, How if any Treasury advice was provided, What

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Speaker 3: did that Treasury advice say. I mean, perhaps they don't

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Speaker 3: have to cough up the whole kitten kaboodle, but they're

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Speaker 3: not giving us anything, and that just all points to

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Speaker 3: they've got something to hide.

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Speaker 1: Now you've said that it was Michael Gunner who waived

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Speaker 1: proper process and scrutiny of the submission by bringing it

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Speaker 1: well under the arm to cabinet. It was Michael Gunner

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Speaker 1: who forced his labor colleagues to approve the Dodgy deal.

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Speaker 1: It was Michael Gunner and his cabinet that decided twelve

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Speaker 1: million dollars would be given away as a lump sum

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Speaker 1: and not proceed as market led as a market lead proposal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think so that Michael Gunner is

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Speaker 1: squarely responsible here?

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Speaker 2: I think it's Michael Gunner in the entire cabinet.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've even seen this morning, Natasha far was

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Speaker 3: coming back out again to throw the Chief Minister under

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Speaker 3: the bar, saying reconfirming it was Michael Gunner who brought

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Speaker 3: this into cabinet. Allegedly, no other cabinet minister had any

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Speaker 3: prior knowledge of this document magically appearing in cabinet just

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Speaker 3: a couple of hours before it was set for a decision.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it's a fascical joke. No one

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Speaker 3: with any credibility could continue to run these types of lines.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it just doesn't hold water.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't meet the pub test, it doesn't meet any standard.

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Speaker 2: Justifiable standard.

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Speaker 3: You know, this government has lost the plot on this

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Speaker 3: one and continue to try and dig itself out of

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Speaker 3: a hole.

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Speaker 4: Lea.

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Speaker 1: I guess by what you're saying, it sounds as though

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Speaker 1: you're taking the DAR and Turf Club chair Brett Dixon's

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Speaker 1: word here and suggesting that the ICAC investigation was not

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Speaker 1: an objective process. I mean, are you calling into question

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Speaker 1: then the IKAC itself.

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Speaker 3: No, So what we've looked at, of course, we've read

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Speaker 3: the IQAQ report, We've read mister Dixon's statement, We've looked

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Speaker 3: at the other information that's come to light, and it

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Speaker 3: seems very clear mister Dixon's statement lines up with the

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Speaker 3: IQAQ report and shows that the Turf Club, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was Michael Gunner who wanted this information to get

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Speaker 3: into cabinet.

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Speaker 2: It was Mike Gunner who got this done.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've got his cabinet ministers saying it wasn't us.

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Speaker 3: You've got the Turf Club saying it wasn't us. You've

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Speaker 3: got Iks saying that government only received the submission from

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Speaker 3: the Turf Club on the thirteenth of June, in that

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Speaker 3: afternoon of the thirteenth of June. So all of that

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Speaker 3: information together supports what territories have been thinking the whole time,

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Speaker 3: which was this is Michael Gunner's baby.

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Speaker 2: He needed to get it done. Prior to the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty election.

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Speaker 3: He was on the nose, he needed something in his

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Speaker 3: electorate and he just wanted to push it through. And

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Speaker 3: I mean this morning, Natasha Files has said as much

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Speaker 3: as that. She said, well, the Chief Minister brought it

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Speaker 3: in and we supported him.

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Speaker 1: Well, we will be catching up with Minister Files in

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Speaker 1: a few minutes time. The investigation, though, it did still

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Speaker 1: find that five people, including Brett Dixon, didn't act appropriately.

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Speaker 1: So do you think those findings are wrong?

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Speaker 2: Look, no, we've.

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Speaker 3: Got no basis to believe otherwise.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've read the IK report.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, mister Dixon is commencing his own proceedings in the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court, which is entirely a matter for him and

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Speaker 3: that will go through its couse. What we know is

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Speaker 3: that the Iykak report couldn't look at government. And at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, Kadie, when everything else is

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Speaker 3: said and done, there are only nine people who can

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Speaker 3: make the decision to give away twelve million dollars. There

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Speaker 3: are only nine people who can give it away as

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Speaker 3: a lump sum, who can stop it from going through

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Speaker 3: the market led proposal process as diligent public servants were

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Speaker 3: busily working on for a long period of time. You know,

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Speaker 3: it is only Michael Gunner and his team who could

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Speaker 3: approve this. They are the ultimate board who should resign,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that they haven't just shows how little

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Speaker 3: integrity they have and how little regard for good governance

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Speaker 3: they have.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to have a situation where a whole

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Speaker 1: cabinet resigns. You know, we're not going to wind up

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Speaker 1: with the whole cabinet resigning. Here, it sounds like you

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Speaker 1: still think the findings of the IKAK should stand.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh well, look, I mean these things will get

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Speaker 3: tested in the Supreme Court that's a matter for you know,

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Speaker 3: the judicial system. But what we're really focused on is

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Speaker 3: the timeline. The timeline speaks for its Mister Dixon's version

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Speaker 3: of events essentially supports what the ikak's version of events

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Speaker 3: were up until that point of making that decision. And

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Speaker 3: the government can't escape the fact that they're the ones

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Speaker 3: who gave it away. No one else in the universe

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Speaker 3: can give away twelve million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Take Pam.

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Speaker 1: That's the point that you're really trying to make here

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Speaker 1: is the fact that the IKAC cannot look into the

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Speaker 1: cabinet decision making process and cannot look into the information

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Speaker 1: that went into cabinet.

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Speaker 4: And that's really what you're questioning.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so you know, obviously it shows that the you know,

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Speaker 3: the k report shows that the Chief Minister, the Natasha files,

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Speaker 3: Nicole Madison, they all had various meetings. I mean Nicole

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Speaker 3: Manison has mentioned upwards of twelve times in the IQAQ

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Speaker 3: report up until March twenty nineteen. Now she's come out

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Speaker 3: and said, oh, I've got a conflict and that's why

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Speaker 3: I didn't sit inside cabinet and make the decision. Well,

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Speaker 3: when was her conflict up until March twenty nineteen. It

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Speaker 3: seems to me she stepped out right at the last

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Speaker 3: minute because she knew that as a true measurer, this

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Speaker 3: was going to be an unpalatable thing for her to

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Speaker 3: have dirty hands on. I mean, it shows that government

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Speaker 3: knew about this, It shows that government had involvement. Mister

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Speaker 3: Leonardi's statement says he was acting under following instructions as

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Speaker 3: an employee you would expect an employee to do. And

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Speaker 3: of course now we've had other cabinet ministers throw the

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Speaker 3: Chief Minister under the bus in saying well, actually yeah,

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Speaker 3: he brought it under the arm in cabinet, which means

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Speaker 3: it didn't follow proper process and the timeline, which mister

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Speaker 3: Dixon and the IKAC show it's impossible that that submission

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Speaker 3: from the turf Club was properly vetted and scrutinized for

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Speaker 3: the government to be able to base any decision to

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Speaker 3: give away twelve million bucks.

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Speaker 1: Well, we will certainly make sure that we ask some

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Speaker 1: more questions on that with the Minister for Racing, Gaming

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Speaker 1: and Licensing.

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Speaker 4: Natasha files in a few minutes time.

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Speaker 1: But look, it is being reported today that some of

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Speaker 1: the Darwin Turf Club board are planning to put their

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Speaker 1: hand up for those board positions. Again, do you think

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Speaker 1: that that's appropriate.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is a it's just like any other sporting club,

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Speaker 3: and they answered to their members and so it's really

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Speaker 3: a matter for those individuals if they feel like they

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Speaker 3: haven't done the wrong thing. Perhaps perhaps many of them

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Speaker 3: were not part of it, Katie. I mean, that's the

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Speaker 3: other thing. The Gunner government came out straight away and

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Speaker 3: called for their resignations, but some of the members on

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Speaker 3: that board might not have been a board member at

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Speaker 3: the time of any of these things taking place. So

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Speaker 3: it will be up to the Turf Club membership to

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Speaker 3: really decide, you know, who who stays and who goes.

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Speaker 1: So I do still think it's appropriate if there are

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Speaker 1: some that put their hands up that that is okay.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a matter for the membership, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: not a member. That's something for the punters of the

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Speaker 3: territory who believe in the Turf Club and support that

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Speaker 3: sporting body to decide on the individual merits. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I don't even know who's on the Turf Club board

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Speaker 3: or who was on it, so I can't comment as

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Speaker 3: to their involvement or lack of involvement. But what we

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Speaker 3: know is there are some very disgruntled former board members

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Speaker 3: who think it's just completely unfair that government of use

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Speaker 3: them as the scape go But guess.

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Speaker 1: What I'm getting to is there'll be some people listening

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Speaker 1: thinking to themselves.

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Speaker 4: Will it's one thing for you to call for the

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Speaker 4: whole of.

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Speaker 1: The cabinet, you know, to stand aside or that they're

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Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing, but they're not do the same

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Speaker 1: with the turf Club.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But again, I just go back to you know, we're

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Speaker 3: now in two thousand and one, So how many of

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Speaker 3: the individuals on the current or you know, the most

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Speaker 3: recent current Turf Club board were actually there in twenty

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Speaker 3: nineteen or twenty twenty. I don't know the answer to that,

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Speaker 3: and certainly there's different versions of events. So what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: just like with any other whether it's your rugby club,

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Speaker 3: whether it's your hockey club, your swimming club, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's up to you as the membership to make that decision.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's move along, because I do want to

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Speaker 1: say or ask you, well, Brett Dixon's calling into question

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Speaker 1: leaks to some elements of the media to like he

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Speaker 1: basically said that yesterday in his statement. Then today it's

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Speaker 1: being reported that an incomplete version of a text message

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Speaker 1: sent by former Inte News editor Matt Williams to the

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Speaker 1: Dar and Turf Club and Brett Dixon was included in

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Speaker 1: that durming IKAK report after the newspaper published a series

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Speaker 1: of stories detailing allegations of misconduct within the icac's own office. Now,

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Speaker 1: the Anti News reports that are draft report sent to

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Speaker 1: the affected parties on May seven as part of the

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Speaker 1: natural justice process didn't include any reference to that text message,

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Speaker 1: but it was then included in the final report, which

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Speaker 1: was released on June twenty five. Are you concerned that

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Speaker 1: the IKAK has misused their powers in any way here?

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Speaker 3: Well, certainly a number of people over a period of

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Speaker 3: time have raised various concerns about the IKAK, And there's

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Speaker 3: one thing we believe is that the ICAQ is an

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Speaker 3: institution that territories have to have confidence, trust and faith

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Speaker 3: in and it needs to be beyond reproach.

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Speaker 4: Do you have confidence and trust in it?

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Speaker 2: Look, we do, we do.

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Speaker 3: But what we want to see is a full public

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Speaker 3: review into the operations of the IKQ Act. Now, we

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Speaker 3: tried to do that in Parliament a couple of months

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Speaker 3: ago we said with the changing of the Guard, with

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Speaker 3: a new commissioner coming in, the K had been in

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Speaker 3: operation a couple of years, it was a very appropriate

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Speaker 3: time to review how things were going and what needed

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Speaker 3: to change.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: That needs to be done publicly and in a bipartisan way,

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Speaker 3: because of course the K is not the government's playtoy,

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Speaker 3: you know, it is not for the government to make

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Speaker 3: these decisions and craft and sculpt what an IC should

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Speaker 3: look like. That should be something done by the Parliament

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Speaker 3: on behalf of all territories and be an open process.

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Speaker 3: A government of course rejected that and instead of having

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Speaker 3: this closed door review where they've tasked someone to go

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Speaker 3: and have a look at it, which is highly inappropriate.

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Speaker 3: This needs to be an open public process, all right.

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Speaker 1: Just to go back to the issue with the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister and the situation with this twelve billion dollar grant.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at this stage it doesn't look as though

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister's going to stand down. It looks like

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Speaker 1: he's staying push. It looks like the Cabinet is going

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Speaker 1: to continue to defend him and defend the decisions that

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Speaker 1: have been made.

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Speaker 4: So we're too realistically from here.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it appalling that we have a situation where our

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Speaker 3: three most senior ministers of the crown are lying to

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Speaker 3: territorians about the cabinet process, where they are digging their

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Speaker 3: heels in in order to save their own skin, where

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Speaker 3: they're throwing other people under the bus to avoid any

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Speaker 3: culpability in this situation, I think it's truly appalling. When you,

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Speaker 3: as a leader lose the confidence of the people, you

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Speaker 3: should stand Aside from.

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Speaker 1: Your perspective, though, has the opposition put forward questions for

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Speaker 1: parliament for sittings? I mean, are you going to be

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Speaker 1: trying your best to get some further information?

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Speaker 3: Oh, without question, We've put in over two hundred questions

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Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago, so we'll expect those back

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Speaker 3: in a few weeks time. Of course, during parliament we

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Speaker 3: will be putting a very large part of our focus

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Speaker 3: will be on this issue to try and uncover the

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Speaker 3: real truth. And Katie, just about every day or every week,

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Speaker 3: more of the truth is coming out. And I think

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Speaker 3: as the Gunner government, and as Michael Gunner continues to

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Speaker 3: dig his heels in and blame others, more disgruntle people

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Speaker 3: with more of the truth will come out and it

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Speaker 3: will continue to plague their government, which is not good

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Speaker 3: for the territory.

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Speaker 2: And it's not good for territory.

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Speaker 3: They should rip the bandaid off and come clean about

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Speaker 3: this so that everyone can move on.

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Speaker 1: Opposition leader Lea Finocchiaro, we're gonna have to leave it there.