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Speaker 1: As the Chief Minister is heading into that National Cabinet

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Speaker 1: meeting very shortly and joins me on the line right now,

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Speaker 1: good morning to your Chief Minister, Katie now while talking

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Speaker 1: a little bit earlier than what we usually do due

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Speaker 1: due to the National Cabinet which I will ask you

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Speaker 1: about very shortly. But first on the agenda today is

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Speaker 1: the IKAC. Now. The Northern Territory Police Association came out

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Speaker 1: on Friday and said they're disgusted by the grandstanding of

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Speaker 1: the IKAC Commissioner Ken Fleming during estimates last week. The

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Speaker 1: scathing criticism follows the KAC commissioner going into details about

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Speaker 1: a whistleblower during the estimates process and comments around his

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Speaker 1: ability to force a journalist to reveal his sources as

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Speaker 1: we know. Sky News reported his office was being investigated

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Speaker 1: over allegations it was awarded contracts. Well, it awarded contracts

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Speaker 1: to a company owned by the boyfriend of a senior director.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, do you agree that there needs to be

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Speaker 1: an investigation into how these contracts within the IKAK are awarded.

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Speaker 2: So Bruce McClintock, who is the independent investigator into the IKAK,

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Speaker 2: is currently investigating that matter. I have spoken with Bruce

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Speaker 2: McClintock as the independent inspector. He will be providing a

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Speaker 2: report to me on a formal report upon the investigation.

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Speaker 2: So that is currently happening, that there is an independent investigation.

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Speaker 1: Will that formal report be made public?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be table lating that in Parliament depending on

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Speaker 2: when I obsolutely I receive it.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Do you think that the Commissioner Ken Fleming's comments

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Speaker 1: that the whistleblower in this instance was a disgruntled employee

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Speaker 1: who was driven by jealousy were appropriate comments to make

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Speaker 1: given his role and standing in the community.

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Speaker 2: I think everybody should respect an independent investigation, particularly someone

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Speaker 2: who is part of that investigation, and particularly someone who

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Speaker 2: is in their own right and independent investigator. So I

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Speaker 2: don't think they were wise comments. The comment upon a

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Speaker 2: subject which is actively being investigated, and I've confirmed that

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Speaker 2: with Bruce m klintock as the independent investigator into the ICACK,

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Speaker 2: and that investigation is ongoing.

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Speaker 1: Okay. The Police Association President Paul McHugh said on Friday

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Speaker 1: that the whole concept of protection of witnesses who come

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Speaker 1: forward with allegations of corrupt behavior is fundamental to the

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Speaker 1: success of the IKAK Mister McHugh said, it seems when

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Speaker 1: that whistleblower is complaining about the iy caack itself, they'll

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Speaker 1: be threatened with exposure by the commissioner charged with protecting them.

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Speaker 1: Do these comments demonstrate a double standard?

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Speaker 2: We will soon see what the independent investigator determines at

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Speaker 2: the end of his investigation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm not asking about the actual investigation. What

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Speaker 1: I'm asking about is the comments. Do these comments demonstrate

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Speaker 1: a double standard?

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Speaker 2: I believe the IQACK was wise in commenting upon an

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Speaker 2: investigation that is occurring, and the investigation that's occurring obviously

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Speaker 2: will have a report which will discuss everything, including the

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Speaker 2: actions of the IKAC.

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Speaker 1: Were the comments a contravention of the IKAC Act, Well.

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Speaker 2: That's why we have an independent investigator make determinations.

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Speaker 1: Like that, and so that independent investigator is obviously taking

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Speaker 1: a close look into everything. I do note, though, that

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Speaker 1: the KAC commissioner also said through the process that journalists

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Speaker 1: are not protected by Section one hundred and twenty seven

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Speaker 1: A of the Uniform Evidence Act because he is not

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Speaker 1: a judicial entity. Would you support the KAC commissioner forcing

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Speaker 1: a journalist to reveal their source?

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Speaker 2: I believe journalists do a very important role holding people

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Speaker 2: to account, myself, the KAC commissioner, others, and I believe

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Speaker 2: they should have the ability to do their jobs. I

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Speaker 2: also recognize the importance of making sure that we can

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Speaker 2: track ruption wherever it occurs. I've asked the Greeg Shanahan,

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Speaker 2: the former CEO of the Palmertorney Journal and Justice, who's

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Speaker 2: doing a review into the IQAC at the moment, to

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Speaker 2: include that as part of this review. I want to

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Speaker 2: make sure we've got the powers, the Palace of Powers

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Speaker 2: in the right spot so that the journalists can genuinely

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Speaker 2: do their jobs. But also obviously, if there is corruption

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Speaker 2: needs to be investigated, the IQAC can do that. I

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Speaker 2: understand them be important to that, but journalists must be

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Speaker 2: able to do their job.

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Speaker 1: Well, it does sound like you're hedging your bets either way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think it's appropriate that a journalists

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Speaker 1: could be forced to reveal their source?

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Speaker 2: That? That's what I'm saying. The journalist should able to

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Speaker 2: do their job. So I absolutely believe in the protection

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Speaker 2: of journalists be able to do their job.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, today, the IQAQ Inspector Bruce McClintock, SC the

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Speaker 1: man charged with conducting the investigation into how these contracts

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Speaker 1: within the IQAQ are awarded, says that he's unable to

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Speaker 1: take action against the Commissioner Ken Fleming for attacking a

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Speaker 1: whistleblower during budget estimates as the comments were protected by

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Speaker 1: parliamentary privilege. Now the Northern Territory Parliament does indeed have

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Speaker 1: the power to refer the IYCAC commiss to its Privileges Committee,

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Speaker 1: though are you going to be doing that?

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Speaker 2: So I discussed this if Bruce Booklintok directly as the

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Speaker 2: independent investigator, so he can while he's not investigating the

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Speaker 2: comments themselves, he can be informed by the comments and

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Speaker 2: the comments who are upon a subject he is absolutely

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Speaker 2: investigating right now, and I've confirmed with him if necessary,

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Speaker 2: he can make a recommendation to Parliament at the end

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Speaker 2: of his report about what we should do, and the

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Speaker 2: point in time that we would act will be at

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Speaker 2: the conclusion of his independent investigation, so that we as

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Speaker 2: a government are interfering in that independent investigation.

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Speaker 1: So when are you anticipating that investigation and the outcomes

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Speaker 1: are going to come out?

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Speaker 2: Well, that would be for obviously Bruce determined, but I

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Speaker 2: imagine it would be sooner rather than later. As I recall,

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Speaker 2: he hasn't given me a due date, if that makes sense,

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Speaker 2: but he's actively investigating it at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Okay, will you allow the whistleblower the opportunity to respond

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Speaker 1: to the comments made in the parliament.

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Speaker 2: So everybody has a right of reply, as I understand

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Speaker 2: understanding orders the whistleblower, I believe it hasn't actually been

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Speaker 2: specifically identified yet, so they may want to consider whether

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Speaker 2: they want to identify themselves. But do you have a

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Speaker 2: right of reply through the parliament, So you.

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Speaker 1: Will allow that that right of reply through the parliament.

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Speaker 2: Or we've never I've never blocked the right as used rarely,

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Speaker 2: but we've never blocked the right of reply. There's a

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Speaker 2: process through the Parliament where you can have a right

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Speaker 2: of reply.

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Speaker 1: So as far as you're concerned that person should be

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Speaker 1: given the opportunity to respond.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so, as I understand the standing orders that are

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Speaker 2: very clear that if you feel that you're essentially be

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Speaker 2: mentioned or be talked about in the Parliament, and that

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Speaker 2: that applies to me as a member of a parliament.

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Speaker 2: If I, as Chief Minister, say something, you have the

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Speaker 2: right to reply through the Parliament as well, because you're

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Speaker 2: not President of the Parliament. So there is a total

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Speaker 2: process around that, which is which is which is there?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Chief?

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Speaker 1: Really, the latest situation follows the KAC commissioner wrongly outing

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Speaker 1: two people after failing to check his junk mail, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were very concerned that the KAC

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Speaker 1: commissioner was front and center at a rally and Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs in two thousand and nine and telling the crowd

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Speaker 1: that black lives matter and anyone who says contrary to

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Speaker 1: that is guilty of corrupt behavior. Do you still have

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Speaker 1: confidence in the IQAQ Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: I have confidence in the IKAK, the commissioner and the

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Speaker 2: process which includes the independent investigator. So after the IQAC

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Speaker 2: made the comments he did last year, the independent investigator

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Speaker 2: asked and to declare a conflict and stand aside, which

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Speaker 2: he did so showed the independent investigator role works. The

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Speaker 2: IKAC obviously apologized and recognized the severity of the era

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Speaker 2: and the denial of natural justice in the other incident

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Speaker 2: as well. So at the moment the system is working.

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Speaker 2: I'd like the system. You don't want the system to

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Speaker 2: have to do the work you rather the system wasn't

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Speaker 2: required to the work, but the moment the system seems

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Speaker 2: to be strong and doing the work. First time we

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Speaker 2: ever have an IQAQ in non territory, and so a

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Speaker 2: lot of these things have been tested for the first time. Now.

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Speaker 1: The Police Association says that the KAC Commissioner's appointment is

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Speaker 1: now clearly untenable and the fact he remains is a

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Speaker 1: reflection on the weak leadership of Chief Minister mind Gunner,

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Speaker 1: who is and you are indeed the responsible minister. Do

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Speaker 1: you need to intervene here?

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Speaker 2: I think there's a very important point here. This is

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Speaker 2: the first time I've ever had an IQAQ in ANLN territory.

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Speaker 2: I think it's critical that as a Chief Minister, as

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Speaker 2: a government, we do not create a precedent of direct

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Speaker 2: intervention into the work of an iqaq. I think that

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Speaker 2: would be a very dangerous precedent. The iqaq's work first

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Speaker 2: Commissioner's work concludes on July five, that's not that long away.

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Speaker 2: There is an ongoing investigation upon the matter, which the

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Speaker 2: police are commenting. So I think it would also be

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Speaker 2: wise for me to act and interfere in the middle

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Speaker 2: of an investigation that hasn't concluded, and I genuinely did

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Speaker 2: not want to create a precedent of Chief Ministers being

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Speaker 2: able to directly interfere with the work of the IQAQ

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Speaker 2: or the independent investigator into the IQAQ. I think that'd

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Speaker 2: be a very dangerous precedent to set.

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Speaker 1: So at this point in time, you feel quite confident

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Speaker 1: and happy with the IQAQ remaining in that role until

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Speaker 1: July fifth.

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Speaker 2: I am confident in all the process of processes we've established,

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Speaker 2: from the IRAQAC to the IKAC Commissioner, to the independent

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Speaker 2: investigator into the IRECAC. And so there's obviously independent investigation

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Speaker 2: occurring right now, and we'll see what the outcome of

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Speaker 2: that independent investigation. Is the appropriate time to act as

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Speaker 2: obviously at the conclusion of investigation, based all the evidence

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Speaker 2: and the recommendations made, I think all of us to understand.

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Speaker 2: I think, please more than anone we'd understand the appropriateness

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm very mindful of your time. I know you

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Speaker 1: do need to rush off, but I do want to ask,

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Speaker 1: is this situation going to cloud any reports which are

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Speaker 1: due to be handed down.

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Speaker 2: I hope not. I hope that all reports that get

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Speaker 2: handed down by the IROQAC can stand on their own merit,

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Speaker 2: and I take them very seriously. That's certainly the process,

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Speaker 2: the path I will be taking to anything the IQAC does,

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Speaker 2: any matters that come forward with complete seriousness.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we know that the IQAC set in estimates that

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Speaker 1: there are three matters that will be released before he goes.

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Speaker 1: If not, then it will be a very short time

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Speaker 1: after that. Have you or anyone in your office been

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Speaker 1: given those reports? No, so when are we expecting them?

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Speaker 2: They'll be a question to the ik Okay.

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Speaker 1: Just finally, and I will ask it again. You are

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Speaker 1: confident in the IKAK Commissioner at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: I believe he's taken on a very serious responsibility with

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Speaker 2: our first ever commissioner. I believe he's testing all our

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Speaker 2: processes and then includes the work of the independent investigator.

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Speaker 2: And I was a treat very serious, very seriously. Any

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Speaker 2: report he hands down between now and conclusion of his

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Speaker 2: first term of duty on July five a very big

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Speaker 2: important role to get an iq established the territory for

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Speaker 2: the first time.

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Speaker 1: We do know that Inspector Bruce mcclint talkie CEE at

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Speaker 1: the moment is also on another very high profile case nationally.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that is going to delay the

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Speaker 1: report that he's conducting here in the territory.

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Speaker 2: Oh, when I spoke with him, he didn't. He didn't

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Speaker 2: seem to indicate that he felt he'd being delayed or

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Speaker 2: hampered by Neva's work. That he didn't. He didn't raise

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Speaker 2: that with me in turn of a need more resources

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Speaker 2: and more time or felt overworked. He seemed confident and

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Speaker 2: capable of carrying out his duty.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Chief Minister. Just upon wrapping up, I know that

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Speaker 1: National Cabinets meeting this morning. That is why we're in

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Speaker 1: a bit of a hurry today. Don't want to make

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Speaker 1: you too late, but Astrosenka is on the agenda following

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Speaker 1: that advice last week. For those age fifty to sixty sixty,

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Speaker 1: What news are you expecting in this space this morning.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm interested in supply. So Operation COVID Shield that

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Speaker 2: the Prime Minister and Austrain government is running, led by

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Speaker 2: General JJ is part of the logistics and supply chain

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Speaker 2: for fires and more than anything, we saw an extra

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand people in forty thousand doses essentially of demand.

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Speaker 2: With the announcement on Thursday or Friday last week. So

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Speaker 2: for me, I need to have some confidence around our

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Speaker 2: supply the next couple of months around the firezer. So

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Speaker 2: for me, that's the most point thing that we need

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Speaker 2: to discuss now because that was unanticipated demand that we

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Speaker 2: now have.

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Speaker 1: Do we have enough Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know, Katie, to be honest, this is a new decision.

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Speaker 2: We had enough for how we were handling it. We

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Speaker 2: obviously all our decisions around vaccine to be done in

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Speaker 2: corporation with the Australian Government. The decision last week was

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Speaker 2: obviously unanticipated. We absolutely have enough fires from now to

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Speaker 2: the end of the year. It's just more about how

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Speaker 2: do you handle the next couple of months because there's

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Speaker 2: been now quite genuinely, I like this an increase in

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Speaker 2: demand and I don't know how they're going to match

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Speaker 2: fires or to that expected increase in demand over the

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Speaker 2: next couple of months. We had the fires we needed

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Speaker 2: to be able to handle it. Now we've got extra

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Speaker 2: what forty thousand doses twenty thousand people point the air

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Speaker 2: hand up, so we've got to work out how we

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Speaker 2: manage that.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister just very quickly a question from one of

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Speaker 1: our listeners, Greater Melbourne remains a declared hot spot as

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Speaker 1: I understand it at this point, how much longer can

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Speaker 1: we expect that to stay in place?

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Speaker 2: So I'll get advice from the Acting Premier for Victoria

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Speaker 2: today at National Cabinet, as I will from the Premiere

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Speaker 2: of this South Wales at National Cabinet. Doctor Heggy will

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Speaker 2: be in the AHPPC meeting this afternoon with all the

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Speaker 2: Chief of Officers and we'll have a sense this afternoon

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Speaker 2: three o'clock to review all that advice and see whether

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Speaker 2: our settings are right or need to be changed in anyway.

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Speaker 1: If Minister Michael Gunner, we appreciate your time this morning,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Thank you are listening to Mix one

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Speaker 1: O four point nine's three point sixty and a short

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Speaker 1: sharp interview this morning because we know that the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister is indeed rushing to get to that meeting with

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Speaker 1: the States and Territory leaders.