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Speaker 1: So I needed to shift my thinking from wanting to

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Speaker 1: seem like the smartest person in the room to wanting

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Speaker 1: to leave the room being the smartest person in the room.

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Speaker 1: And it was It meant that I needed to ask

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Speaker 1: questions constantly, and I.

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Speaker 2: Needed to not care whether it made me look like

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Speaker 2: an idiot.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 3: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 3: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an

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Speaker 3: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm

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Speaker 3: obsessed with fighting ways to optimize my work date. My

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Speaker 3: guest today is Cyan taid Si is one of Australia's

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Speaker 3: most successful entrepreneurs, having co founded and vatoed in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and six and growing it to being valued now

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Speaker 3: at over one billion dollars. Last year, she tried her

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Speaker 3: hand at chocolate you Know Why Not, and her chocolate

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Speaker 3: brand Hey Tiger is now one of Australia's fastest growing

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Speaker 3: purpose driven brands, and in her spare time, she recently

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Speaker 3: launched Milkshake dot app, which allows users to make a

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Speaker 3: free website for their Instagram profile all on their phone instantly.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: I first met Si about four years ago when we

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Speaker 3: were both finalists in the Telstra business Women of the

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Speaker 3: Year Awards in the Entrepreneur category.

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Speaker 4: And I remember when I.

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Speaker 3: Met Cy and learned about what she had done with

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Speaker 3: her business life. I remember thinking, okay, she has definitely

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Speaker 3: won our category and she went on to become the Victorian.

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Speaker 4: Telstra Businesswomen of the Year in that year.

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Speaker 3: Since then, Cy and I actually meet every month with

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Speaker 3: a businesswomen's kind of like a peer mentoring group that

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Speaker 3: I started a couple of years ago, where nine female

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Speaker 3: found Slash CEO women meet every month to talk about

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Speaker 3: our business and get advice and help and support on

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Speaker 3: the various challenges that we face as female entrepreneurs in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Now I should add that this was also the very

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Speaker 3: first How I Work interview that was recorded in front

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Speaker 3: of a live audience, and all ticket sales went to

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Speaker 3: size charity of choice, the Hunger Project, which she talks

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Speaker 3: a little bit about towards the.

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Speaker 2: End of this interview.

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Speaker 3: So I love this chat with Ci, and I reckon

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Speaker 3: you all love as love it too. Ci is just

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Speaker 3: so genuine and humble and really generous with her tips.

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Speaker 4: We cover all sorts of things, from her.

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Speaker 3: Very fascinating and well thought through strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome,

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Speaker 3: through to why she once had an app on her

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Speaker 3: phone that reminded her that she's going to die five

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Speaker 3: times per day. She has since deleted that app, So

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Speaker 3: on that note over, decide to hear about how she works.

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Speaker 4: SI, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Amantha.

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Speaker 3: Where I do want to start is not where I'd

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Speaker 3: planned to start, But before we were about to kick

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Speaker 3: on and get started, you told me that you'd like

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Speaker 3: recently dramatically cut down the amount of time that you're

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Speaker 3: spending on your phone. Can you tell me like what

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Speaker 3: you were spending and what you're now spending.

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Speaker 2: So I was probably spending about four hours a day

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Speaker 2: and it was getting to the point where it was

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Speaker 2: a little bit manic.

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Speaker 1: I do have a tendency towards intensity, surprisingly enough, and

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Speaker 1: I found that I was just constantly, you know, checking email, Shopify, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: what else, like a whole range of different sort of

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Speaker 1: different apps and pieces of data which I wasn't actually

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Speaker 1: getting a huge amount out of.

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Speaker 2: And it was becoming quite a destructive habit.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that you should know is

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Speaker 1: that Amantha and I are actually part of a peer

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Speaker 1: mentoring group together, and so I've known each other for

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Speaker 1: quite some time.

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Speaker 2: And one day Amantha's mother came.

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Speaker 1: In and she is a clinical psychologist, is that correct,

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Speaker 1: And one of her areas of speciality is hypnotism. I'd

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Speaker 1: never been hypnotized before. I am a control freak, so

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Speaker 1: out of everyone in the room, I was exceptionally uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: with this and actually said, I'm very uncomfortable, but I'm

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Speaker 1: going to try anyway, because she was so lovely and

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Speaker 1: I trust and trusted her, and she was Amantha's mum.

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Speaker 2: And it was the It was really intense.

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Speaker 1: I found that just after being hypnotized for five minutes,

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Speaker 1: I went away and I went.

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Speaker 2: All the way to work afterwards.

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Speaker 1: I didn't pick up my phone once, and I was

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Speaker 1: in really in the present moment, and I realized I

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Speaker 1: think I'd been veering a little bit too.

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Speaker 2: Much towards kind of fight off flight. Adrenaline filled.

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Speaker 1: That way of being, and I thought, Okay, it'll be

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Speaker 1: an interesting experiment. I tend to like to experiment on

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Speaker 1: myself a little bit in harmless ways, but you know, to.

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Speaker 2: See what to see what effect things will have.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, well, if I minimize my phone used

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Speaker 1: for a little while, what effect is that going to

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Speaker 1: have on me? And I've probably gone down to an

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Speaker 1: average of about fifteen minutes a day.

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Speaker 3: Fifteen minutes that that is nothing like out of interest?

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Speaker 3: What is consuming that fifteen minutes?

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Speaker 2: Phone calls? Honestly?

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Speaker 4: Wow, So just overnight you just do you know, I

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Speaker 4: scaled down.

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Speaker 1: I mean that experience with your mum was so intense

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Speaker 1: that I, you know, and I have to say, you know, prior,

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Speaker 1: as you know, I was quite not critical of hypnotism,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't understand it, and I haven't been hypnotized since,

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Speaker 1: so this was.

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Speaker 2: This one experience that I'm drawing on. But I was

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Speaker 2: just like, wow, this was really intense.

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Speaker 1: But the difference in me made me realize that I

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Speaker 1: clearly was not present enough prior to this. So really

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Speaker 1: it's kind of more about being, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: be in the present moment, I think, which is important

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: I tend to look ahead all the time.

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Speaker 3: And did you change anything on your phone to make

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Speaker 3: it less addictive?

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Speaker 1: I tend to take apps off my phone, so I've

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll wait until I'm on Wi Fi before

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Speaker 1: I kind of, you know, load something back on again.

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Speaker 1: But I will take off quite a few of the

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Speaker 1: different apps that I have and then load them back

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Speaker 1: on when I actually need them, as opposed to having

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Speaker 1: them all the time, because if they're there, I will

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Speaker 1: check them compulsively.

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Speaker 4: That that's a great trick.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I've heard people do a slightly less extreme

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Speaker 3: where they log themselves out of say social media apps,

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Speaker 3: for example, but you'll actually delete them.

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Speaker 4: I delete it.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I really need to do it to the most.

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Speaker 1: Extreme because if I'm just not logged in hobably like ah,

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Speaker 1: just like it's easy. I need to kind of train

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Speaker 1: myself out of it. And I think, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: all about habit as you.

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Speaker 3: Know, fantastic And so what are you now doing with

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Speaker 3: the three hours and forty five minutes that you're no

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Speaker 3: longer consumed on your phone?

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Speaker 1: So for a long time, I've been aware that when

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly surrounded by input, when I'm constantly consuming output,

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Speaker 1: becomes a lot more difficult for me. I'm aware that

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Speaker 1: I need to have plenty of time for output in

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Speaker 1: order to do good work. So when I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Good, useful work.

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Speaker 1: It's actually quite creative, and that means I need time

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Speaker 1: and I need space.

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Speaker 2: So honestly, I think just you know, it's things.

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Speaker 1: Like on the way in, not staring at my email

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Speaker 1: and my phone the whole time, but instead looking around me.

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Speaker 1: It's really really simple things. The interesting thing is is

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Speaker 1: that I find that I'm more effective because I'm giving

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Speaker 1: my brain time to figure things out, whereas if I'm

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Speaker 1: constantly looking at data and kind of external noise, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: Nearly as effective in that way.

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Speaker 4: That's interesting.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me of something that the previous guests said

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Speaker 3: to me, who were actually just talking about before. Professor

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Speaker 3: Adam Alter, who studied digital addiction, and he did this

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Speaker 3: experiment where he gets a lot of ideas for research

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Speaker 3: studies for example, that he wants to conduct and books

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Speaker 3: that he wants to write, and in his notebook he

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Speaker 3: writes his ideas and any idea that comes when he's

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Speaker 3: in a state of boredom, let's say so, not consuming stimulus,

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Speaker 3: he asterixes them, and what he found when he looked

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Speaker 3: back at it is all the ideas that came to

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Speaker 3: him in a state of not consuming stimulus he thought

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Speaker 3: were far better, which is really interesting. So it's really

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Speaker 3: about just being present and not of constantly in putting

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Speaker 3: stimulus into your brain.

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Speaker 1: I think so, and I think that my tendency, you know,

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Speaker 1: I tend to be very focused on results, and I

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Speaker 1: think that sometimes I get into the habit of thinking

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Speaker 1: that I need to be like a machine. So in

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Speaker 1: tech there's quite a bit of you know, stuff about

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Speaker 1: you know, biohacking, and I am going to document every

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Speaker 1: single moment of the day and what I spend it

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Speaker 1: on to see if I'm spending it on the optimum amount,

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Speaker 1: you know, the optimum things. And it's really intense, and

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Speaker 1: it's not very nurturing, to be totally honest, it's not

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Speaker 1: nurturing at all. And I think for a long time

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Speaker 1: I really veered that way. I'm going to become as

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Speaker 1: efficient as possible and as effective as possible, and again,

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Speaker 1: you know, I do want to be efficient and effective,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think it's also about the process. It's

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Speaker 1: also about enjoying and being present in the process of

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Speaker 1: what you do, and so reading things like you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a book I'm reading at the moment which is

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Speaker 1: called Daily rituals, and it's basically the rituals of incredible writers, composers, artists,

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Speaker 1: and they're talking about how they spend their day, so

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Speaker 1: basically their day is documented out and a consistency amongst

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Speaker 1: them is that there's a lot of time, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of time where maybe you know they're not you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not output, it's just being still and letting themselves process.

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Speaker 1: And I think that you know anything that you're doing

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Speaker 1: which is really hard, and startups are really hard, very entire,

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Speaker 1: very tiring, very mentally taxing. And that's not just true

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Speaker 1: of me, that's true of anyone that works in a startup.

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Speaker 1: It's exhausting and you need time, time to process and

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Speaker 1: time to time to let the good things come out

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Speaker 1: because it is about being creative.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an interesting book that one.

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Speaker 3: And I want to know in your life, what rituals

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Speaker 3: do you have that you found serve you well, whether

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Speaker 3: they be daily, weekly, fortnightly, what does that look like

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Speaker 3: for you?

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Speaker 1: I think the so in terms of yearly ritual my

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Speaker 1: family and I we play a game. My husband and

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Speaker 1: I started doing it when we first got married years ago,

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Speaker 1: and it was this is the year that on New

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Speaker 1: Year's Day. So I personally hate New Year's Eve. I

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Speaker 1: think there's too much pressure. I'd write a bit early

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Speaker 1: and then wake up early, you know, the following day,

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Speaker 1: on Year's Day and go, okay, what's this new year

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Speaker 1: going to be?

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Speaker 2: So we set up this tradition, which is this.

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Speaker 1: Is the year that where we just pingpong back and

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Speaker 1: forth and talk about all the things that happened in

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Speaker 1: the past year, and then we switch to all the

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Speaker 1: things that we want for the new year, and then

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Speaker 1: we write them down. And it's not, well, I should,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't work for me. I should has never worked

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Speaker 1: for me. I want is really effective for me. And

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Speaker 1: so that time for kind of it's a great time

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Speaker 1: in terms of blue sky thinking to go all right,

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Speaker 1: you know, if everything's on the table, what is it

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Speaker 1: that I actually want for this coming year? What is

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Speaker 1: interesting to me? So that I always really enjoy And

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Speaker 1: then probably every quarter I try and reflect on those

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Speaker 1: things and you know, are they relevant, are they still relevant?

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Speaker 1: Are they still exciting? How far can I come? But

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Speaker 1: again not about have I succeeded or failed? Because in

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Speaker 1: the past my self talk has been quite very critical.

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Speaker 1: I think most people who are high achieving, start out

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Speaker 1: with their self.

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Speaker 2: Talk being very critical.

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Speaker 1: But you know, what is it that's kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: what's exciting, what's interesting?

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Speaker 2: If I want to live a big life, what is

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Speaker 2: it that I'm going to be doing again?

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Speaker 1: I you know, probably every morning I read either you know,

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Speaker 1: something like Daily Rituals just one or you know, Tribe

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Speaker 1: of Mentors just one chapter, and I just try and like,

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Speaker 1: let let my day be a reflection of anything that

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Speaker 1: resonated with me during during that during that reading session,

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Speaker 1: and generally it's like five minutes.

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Speaker 2: It's really not a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I think the only other thing is ensuring again

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Speaker 1: that I have time to be still and to really

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Speaker 1: think and not just be running from one thing to

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Speaker 1: the next. And that requires constant readjustment. I'm constantly going, well,

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Speaker 1: I've pushed it too far.

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Speaker 2: I don't have.

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Speaker 1: Any time because it is very easy for me to

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Speaker 1: completely fill my time up and take it back to Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: where am I personally providing value? What value do I

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Speaker 1: provide in this equation to my team, to this business,

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Speaker 1: and other than that, I'm going to get my nose

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Speaker 1: out of it and let the very competent people that

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Speaker 1: I work with do what they're doing. And the book

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Speaker 1: Essentialism was very helpful.

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Speaker 4: With that, such a good book. How do you catch yourself?

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Speaker 3: Like when when you have kind of gone too far

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Speaker 3: and in one direction? If you like, like, do you

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Speaker 3: have something that you do regularly to kind of go

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Speaker 3: where am I at?

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Speaker 4: Or is it just a feeling that you get?

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Speaker 1: I ten, It really is about a feeling that I get.

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Speaker 1: So I know that if if I'm going into meetings

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Speaker 1: and I'm not mentally prepared, I haven't thought through what

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Speaker 1: it is that, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I need to be getting out of them.

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Speaker 1: If I feel rushed, then those are generally, you know,

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Speaker 1: good signals to me that I need to pull back

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Speaker 1: and have a look and consider. And I think also,

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Speaker 1: you know, being aware, I've become a lot more aware

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Speaker 1: like things like this. You know, I'm actually I'm an

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Speaker 1: introvert who presents as an extrovert. It's it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: one of those things and I'm gonna go, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna need to you know, pull back and be a

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Speaker 1: little bit quieter for the rest of the day after this.

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Speaker 1: That's okay, like getting to know myself better. Whereas if

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Speaker 1: it's a series of internal meetings.

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Speaker 2: I can do that all day and no problem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Wow, how how do you function like?

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Speaker 3: As I can completely relate to that, by the way,

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Speaker 3: like an introvert kind of trying to do extraverted things

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Speaker 3: during the day.

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Speaker 4: How how does that work for you?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: How how I guess?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: Particularly do you you structure a day even if you

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Speaker 3: know that there is going to be, you know, something

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Speaker 3: like this, which is very public and can be quite

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Speaker 3: tiring for an introvert.

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Speaker 4: How have you thought about today? For example?

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Speaker 1: I think that for me, what makes sense is taking

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Speaker 1: the pressure off and going, Okay, I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: in here and I'm just going.

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Speaker 2: To try and be useful. So my only job.

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Speaker 1: Is to try and say something in this hour or

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Speaker 1: whoever long we've got that you go, oh that was helpful, great,

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Speaker 1: that was.

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Speaker 2: Nice to hear.

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Speaker 1: Oh that helped me do my thing, whatever it might be. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: if I try and set myself up in my mind

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Speaker 1: as trying to achieve these ten different purposes and trying

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Speaker 1: to spook whatever it is that I'm doing at the moment,

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Speaker 1: it's too stressful for me and it doesn't feel honest anyway.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's that taking the pressure off myself.

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Speaker 2: But also I.

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Speaker 1: Think just knowing, all right, if I need to, I

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Speaker 1: can head home after this, that's okay. I can head

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Speaker 1: home and work from home and that's okay. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why you know, I implement Flex's work

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Speaker 1: wherever I can in my businesses because I know that

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Speaker 1: sometimes I need to go home and you know, hibernate

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Speaker 1: a little bit, and that's you know, that's okay.

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Speaker 2: We're human.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome.

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Speaker 3: I like what you're doing in the morning in terms

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Speaker 3: of just getting that five minutes to read. Can you

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Speaker 3: think of like an example of something that like you

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Speaker 3: have taken from your morning reading and how that played

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Speaker 3: out during the day, or how you kind of reflected

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Speaker 3: on that during the day.

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Speaker 1: Recently, in Tribe of Mentors, I cannot remember his name, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: but he is an incredible chef, and he was talking

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Speaker 1: about trying to divide up his day into all his time,

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Speaker 1: into a third for his work, a third for himself,

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Speaker 1: and a third for his family.

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Speaker 2: I don't manage to do that at all.

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Speaker 1: So that was fascinating to me to look at somebody

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Speaker 1: who's one of the most successful chefs in the world

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Speaker 1: and say he has managed to achieve that, and he

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Speaker 1: spends a third of his time for himself, what does

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Speaker 1: that actually look like?

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Speaker 2: And consider?

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Speaker 1: You know, I've had people multiple times say to me,

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Speaker 1: so what do you your hobbies?

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Speaker 2: And I say, I don't really have a hobby.

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Speaker 1: I I you know, I work, and I love my work,

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Speaker 1: and I love the people that I work with. And

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Speaker 1: then I, you know, spend time with my kids and

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Speaker 1: my husband, and those are the things that I do.

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Speaker 2: And I'm actually deeply boring.

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Speaker 1: So even to consider I am I like, totally honestly.

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Speaker 2: To even consider what would it look like if I

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Speaker 2: spent a third of my time for me? What would

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 1: Is an interesting mental exercise. So I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: constantly kind of I think one of the things about

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Speaker 1: being an entrepreneur and having.

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Speaker 2: A startup is that you.

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Speaker 1: You kind of you develop very very quickly. And you know,

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Speaker 1: self development is very very important because it's very challenging.

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Speaker 3: So what do you what else do you do to

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Speaker 3: I guess constantly be learning and developing yourself.

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Speaker 1: I think that I just I try and surround myself

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Speaker 1: with people that I can learn from.

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Speaker 2: Quite honestly, I find that.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you if you say to me, O case,

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Speaker 1: I read a book about how to run effective meetings,

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Speaker 1: I'll go, oh my goodness, I just I.

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Speaker 2: Can't internalize it.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if I'm inspired by somebody who runs really effective meetings, Okay, great,

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Speaker 1: I just want to model you. I'm very good at modeling,

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Speaker 1: not very good at kind of pulling things from written material.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I generally, like, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: those things that I'll surround myself, including the people that

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Speaker 1: work with me, with people that I feel like I

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Speaker 1: can learn from you. I just want to be around you.

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Speaker 1: I want to watch you. It's the same with my

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Speaker 1: personal trainer. It's the same with like, I'm constantly intuitively

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Speaker 1: looking for people.

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Speaker 2: That I can learn from, and that's what that's what

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Speaker 2: works for me.

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Speaker 4: Is that something that you're looking for in recruitment?

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Speaker 3: Because Envado's got like three four hundred people, six hundred now, six.

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Speaker 4: Hundred now, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 3: Wow, Okay, and you're obviously growing to other businesses, and

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Speaker 3: I imagine you must have interviewed like hundreds thousands of people.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'd say probably more to the.

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Speaker 1: Hundreds to the hundreds. I'm guessing but yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: solid hundreds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I imagine like part of that is,

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Speaker 3: you know, can you learn from this person? But I'm curious,

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Speaker 3: do you like that in that time that is a

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Speaker 3: huge amount of experience. Do you have go to questions

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Speaker 3: things that you're looking for to identify if someone is

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Speaker 3: going to be like someone that you can learn from

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Speaker 3: or someone that's going to be great in the business.

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Speaker 1: Look generally speaking, you know, I actually try and source people,

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Speaker 1: find people who aren't looking for a job, people who

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Speaker 1: I see who are doing an incredible job at what

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Speaker 1: they're doing, and often probably a bit you know, like

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Speaker 1: just guns, and the thing I know about them is

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Speaker 1: that they're going to do something incredible and that they're there's.

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Speaker 2: Just they're just waiting for the space to do that.

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Speaker 1: And then I slowly convince them, I slowly convince them

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Speaker 1: that they.

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Speaker 2: Should leave what they're doing and they should come and

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Speaker 2: work with me instead.

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Speaker 1: And I'm honestly like I do it. Sometimes I do

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Speaker 1: it really quickly. So sometimes I'll just sit down and

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Speaker 1: have lunch with you and go, you know what, you

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Speaker 1: should leave what you're doing and you should just come

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Speaker 1: and work with me. And then if they say, and

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Speaker 1: then if they're considering it, we have a serious conversation,

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Speaker 1: and if they're.

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Speaker 2: Not, I'll go, yep, it'd be really good.

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Speaker 1: And then I just start like gently, like introducing it

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Speaker 1: like as a joke, but not as a joke until

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Speaker 1: it infects their minds. And then I've been I've got

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Speaker 1: a pretty good success right with it. And I think

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Speaker 1: my goal is to get people who, you know, all

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Speaker 1: they need is the space and the permission to do

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Speaker 1: amazing work.

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Speaker 4: How do you find those people? Like, how do you know?

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Speaker 3: Because this is where I struggle with the idea of

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Speaker 3: you know, essentially what we're talking about is poaching y

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Speaker 3: cala what it is? So like because I've tried this

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Speaker 3: for inventium and it's and I find it really hard

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Speaker 3: because often I'm looking at someone on paper or I'm

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe like reading about them in I don't know,

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Speaker 3: different sources, and it's just like that can often be

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Speaker 3: quite different from who the person is. So how are

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Speaker 3: you identifying them in the first place? Who you're going

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Speaker 3: to invest time in, you know, wining and dining.

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Speaker 2: I think people who.

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Speaker 1: Are really just really passionate and obsessive about what they

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Speaker 1: do and Oftentimes I think where I can add value

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Speaker 1: is because I've never been hugely confident. I've always been

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Speaker 1: unsure of my capacity. Oftentimes I think that where I

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Speaker 1: can add value is just giving them permission to proceed.

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Speaker 1: So it's hard for me to explain because I think, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: I'm not strong at, but I'm really good at reading people,

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Speaker 1: and I you know, and I'm good at figuring out

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Speaker 1: if a person is genuinely passionate, really cares ambitious, and

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a sort of you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: craftsmanship or a crafts personship. I've never known how to

444
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: gender neutralize that term, but there's a craftsmanship that comes

445
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 1: through My dad always said to me, you know, you

446
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: can be the best in the bis of cleaning toilets.

447
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: It's about the it's about the process, and it's about

448
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 2: the passion.

449
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: It's about being proud of doing a job well done.

450
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: And there've been people that I've spied at, you know,

451
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: the cafe that I went to every day, and when

452
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: you know what, and I'm pointing out him, this dude's

453
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: a gun and he's gonna work for me one day

454
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: and I don't know how it is, and then they do.

455
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: I was successful with Eric, so you know, it's it's

456
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that I it's a it's

457
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: a horrible answer, and I'm sorry, but you know, sometimes

458
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: you just you just know, you just know it about people.

459
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: You just see the.

460
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: Way they are and you go, I know you're gonna

461
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna give whatever it is your best and and

462
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: I want to work with you for that reason.

463
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 4: I love that you're finding people in cafes.

464
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 3: Well join me w lately, but still like I feel

465
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: like there's something really interesting in that because I think

466
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 3: that the average I think about the average recruiter and

467
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 3: they're like, Okay, I've got this job to fill, so

468
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 3: I'm going to look at people that are doing the

469
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 3: exact same job because they're the only person that are

470
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 3: going to be good at the job because they've done

471
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 3: the job before.

472
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 4: And I love how laterally.

473
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 3: You're you're looking for people that I think would be great.

474
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: Passion will outweigh experience any day, and I think you

475
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 1: know people who are incredibly.

476
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 2: Passionate and they're smart.

477
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: I think because that's how I went into Invato. Literally

478
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: no idea what I was doing, but I decided, oh,

479
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: we're just going to figure it out. Me and my

480
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: co founders were like, we will literally just figure this out.

481
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: And a lot of time we reinvented the wheel, and

482
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't the most efficient thing, but on the

483
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: other hand, that meant we.

484
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: Did a lot of things that were different and innovative.

485
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: So in some ways, getting people who aren't coming in

486
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: and going, oh, well, I've done this a hundred times

487
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: before the big boys are here, now let's you know,

488
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: we'll do it this way that I've done it in

489
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: the past, and instead going let's critically look at what

490
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: the problem is and figure out how we can solve

491
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: it intelligently is really powerful.

492
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: You've mentioned the confidence is something that you know, it's

493
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: kind of like been the thing for you. And I

494
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 3: know you've spoken about imposter syndrome and being a people

495
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: pleaser and you've developed really cool strategies for overcoming that.

496
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 4: Can you talk about that?

497
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think that I we spent a long

498
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: time feeling like I was trying to cover up, feeling

499
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: like I wasn't actually as intelligent, as capable, as good as.

500
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 2: Everyone maybe thought I was.

501
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: You know, I was running you know, a fifty person

502
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: team at twenty seven, you know, and you know, deeply

503
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: inexperienced in doing that and had to learn on the

504
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: job a lot. And my coping mechanism was to go,

505
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: I've well, no, it's okay, I've.

506
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: Got it all figured out, when in fact, I, you know,

507
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: I didn't.

508
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: And then we went through a period where we had

509
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: a lot of very experienced people coming into the business

510
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: and I kind of thought, oh, well, I'll step aside again.

511
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: The big kids are here now, and they said, don't worry,

512
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: we got this, we know how to do this, and

513
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: then realizing that actually, oftentimes unfortunately they didn't, and that

514
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: there was something different about the way I was doing it,

515
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: which was helpful and useful and you know better in

516
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: some cases. So I kind of had to figure out

517
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: what it was that was going on with me. I think,

518
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: especially you know, the tech VC world in the US,

519
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: they talk a big game.

520
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: I never did. What did that mean about me?

521
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 4: You know?

522
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: It was it was one of those things where I

523
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: felt like I really needed to address it, and there

524
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: was a few things I did, a few steps that

525
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: I went through.

526
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: The first thing was is that.

527
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: I went and looked around me to people who people

528
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: that I just felt.

529
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 2: Like had a really natural confidence around them.

530
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: And honestly, those two people were best friend Natalie Tam

531
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: and my husband, like honestly just naturally confident, you know,

532
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: chilled out, you know, just I wanted to emulate the

533
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: two of them, not to say that they thought they

534
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: could do everything.

535
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: I just I felt like they.

536
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: I felt like they were very effective in that they

537
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: never worried about asking questions that might make them look stupid.

538
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: They never worried about that, and I always worried about that.

539
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: So I needed to.

540
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: Shift my thinking from wanting to seem like the smartest

541
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: person in the room to wanting to leave the room

542
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: being the smart hardest person in the room. And it

543
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: was It meant that I needed to ask questions constantly

544
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: and I needed to not care whether it made me

545
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: look like an idiot. I think I also needed to

546
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: start saying yes to opportunities even when they really scared me,

547
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: because for a long time I kind of tried to

548
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: avoid failing really and I had to get really used

549
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: to and comfortable failing all the time and figuring out

550
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: how to cope with that.

551
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: And the more I do it.

552
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: The less it became about me, and the more it

553
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: became about the concept that I was just trying to

554
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: do really hard things and that when you try and

555
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: do really hard things that someone's never done before, oftentimes

556
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: you fail. And honestly, like I can tell you, I'm

557
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: probably about ten startups in all up, and there's a

558
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: lot you haven't.

559
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: Heard about it and don't know about because they didn't succeed.

560
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: And close them down, I mean, all that didn't work,

561
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: all right, and better shut that down and keep on going.

562
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: And I think the final depth, the final piece of

563
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: the puzzle for me. And again it's making it sound

564
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: like I've got this completely figured out, which I don't.

565
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: But the most effective thing I did overall was I

566
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: got really clear about where I was weak and where

567
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: I was strong. So I think, you know when you

568
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: have imposter syndrome. And I'm basing this anecdotally on other

569
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: people that I've spoken to, which I think is a

570
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: fairly human universal issue.

571
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: The more and more time that goes on, I believe that.

572
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: One tends to the whole concept of where you're weak

573
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: is so scary you never look that way. And I

574
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: think I had this idea in my mind that I

575
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: needed to be incredibly strong in all areas. Again, I

576
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: had to be this machine who was as right brained

577
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: as I was left brained, and you know, and just

578
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: had to know everything. And I think I realized that

579
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: that was impossible, and I was setting totally unrealistic expectations

580
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: on myself and again not treating myself with a great

581
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: deal of compassion.

582
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: And I decided that I needed to have a.

583
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: Really critical look learn where I was really strong, but

584
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: also learn where I was really weak. Because I can

585
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: adjust for my weaknesses, I can hire. I hire out

586
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: my weaknesses. Now I find people who balance me out

587
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: and that can kind of adjust. I'm very left brained person,

588
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: so I need the left brains around me because they

589
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: do absolutely incredible work. And I think most people, if

590
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: their left brain, will hire other left brains. I need

591
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: guns of right brains. I need operational guns around me.

592
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: And I think once I realized where I specifically could

593
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: add value and where I just needed to get out

594
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: of the way and find really strong people and trust them, that.

595
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: Really helped me.

596
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: It gave me a lot of space to be really

597
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: good at what I did and free me up from

598
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: constantly beating myself and beating myself up and being worried

599
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: about the areas where I was weak.

600
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: You mentioned self talk a couple of times, and like

601
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 3: even just before we were about to start, but you know,

602
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: recording or doing what we're doing. You know, you mentioned

603
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: that you were feeling nervous. I hope it's okay for

604
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: me to say, like, what is yourself talk before things

605
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,479
Speaker 3: like this and your approach I guess to overcoming the

606
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: nerves that you might be feeling, which I must say

607
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 3: shocks me because it's like.

608
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: You got this, like you're awesome. Yeah, I think that.

609
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I genuinely just I wouldn't say that I get downright

610
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: nervous anymore. But I was saying to a couple of

611
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: people that I know before I came in, I was like, oh,

612
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: I find it. I'm finding it difficult to hold to

613
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: conduct a conversation with you right now because my head

614
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: is so in like mentally preparing myself, and I think

615
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: that it is for me. It's all about all right, Well,

616
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: I genuinely want to be really present in this conversation

617
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: because I recognize that people are giving up an hour.

618
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: Of their time and have woken up early in the morning.

619
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 1: And everything else to be here, and it's it's about

620
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: me providing, hopefully providing some value.

621
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: In this conversation and of being an interesting conversation.

622
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: So I think I used to get exceptionally nervous, and

623
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: a couple of things really helped. Once I was on

624
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: a panel and the interviewer asked a very very complicated

625
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: question and the woman next to me and I was

626
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: freaking out, like I don't know how to answer this,

627
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, And the woman next to me said, ahh,

628
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that question.

629
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: Can you come back to me? And I thought, that's

630
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: a great answer.

631
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: That is a perfectly reasonable position to take. And again

632
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: that's thing about you don't need.

633
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: To know everything, you don't need to be the authority

634
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: on everything, which to me has been very, very freeing

635
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: and very helpful. And the other thing was yet again,

636
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, I was about to go on stage that

637
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: I was talking to you about this particular event.

638
00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: I was telling this.

639
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: Story because we're putting the mic on, and I said

640
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: that I went to an AFR event which was just

641
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: the whole audience was journos, like three hundred of them,

642
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: and I was wearing this big, flowy yellow dress and

643
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: they said, we've got to put We've got like they

644
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: do this thing where they like hook the mic into

645
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: your belts, but I didn't have a.

646
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: Belt, so they were like, what are you going to

647
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: do with this?

648
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: So I'm like standing at the back in kind of

649
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: the audio visual area, pulling up my dress and trying

650
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: to stuff it into my underpants.

651
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 4: It was like just just.

652
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: Like not the most empowering way to start an event.

653
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: But anyway, going up, the journalist said to me, she said, Okay,

654
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about I'd really like to ask

655
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: you this question about what's this new ruling with listed companies.

656
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: It's new ruling with listed companies? What does it mean?

657
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: Invitor is not a listed company.

658
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: It is not an error of interest for me at all,

659
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: like literally, not even slightly. And I could feel my

660
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: heart starting to you know, boom boom boom boom, imposter syndrome.

661
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to be found out. They're going to realize

662
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be here. This is going to be super embarrassing.

663
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: And instead I just turned around and I said to her, listen,

664
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: you're very welcome to ask me that question.

665
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: But I honestly have no idea.

666
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: I have no idea what the answer is, so I

667
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: will literally just stay on stage. I'm so sorry we're

668
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: not listed. This isn't an area of interest for me.

669
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: You should ask someone else. And again, they sound like

670
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: really little things, but really helpful in times. You know,

671
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: in times like that where you're kind of there's pressure

672
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: and you're on stage and you kind of you want

673
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: to you want to perform and be useful.

674
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: That is a goal I'm going to use that. I'm

675
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 3: actually on a panel in a couple of hours on

676
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: the other.

677
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: Side of the city.

678
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: I'm hoping that they asked me a real joosy of

679
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: a question. I got no idea.

680
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 4: That's great.

681
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: Now you're you're involved slash running three businesses, obviously less

682
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 3: involved and invado.

683
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 4: I want to know structurally what does that look like?

684
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: And also mentally you compartmentalizing, how do you have three

685
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: successful businesses that you're involved in.

686
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where I was I do

687
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: try and divide up my days.

688
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: So I try and.

689
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: Divide up my days into I'm either thinking about milkshake

690
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: or I'm thinking about hay Tiger.

691
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: The reality is is that both of those.

692
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: Things are growing very quickly, and oftentimes that's not the

693
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: way it works out. I think that it works better

694
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: when I do, you know, the things that I'm really

695
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: good at, and I get out of the way everywhere else,

696
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: and I just trust the people that I'm working with,

697
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: and they're extremely competent.

698
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: So it's really it's not a stretch for me to

699
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: do it.

700
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, the best quote I heard

701
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: in relation to this is.

702
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 2: The Game of Thrones documentary.

703
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: I know I'm a total geek, but it was really really,

704
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: it was really interesting. And the director of you know,

705
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of the best Game of Thrones episodes, you know,

706
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: the Red Wedding and things like that, quite an eccentric,

707
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: quiet guy, but clearly an absolute genius.

708
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 2: And they asked him how it was.

709
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: Working on this gigantic project and he said, you know,

710
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: I am just the conductor of fine musicians.

711
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 2: All I do is I wave my hands around.

712
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: And honestly, I thought, this is the most apt description

713
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: of what it is that I actually do. I think

714
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: the really hard part for me is focusing in and

715
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: going all right, I've got to find the musicians, these

716
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: really incredible musicians and when I was trying to find

717
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: the musicians for hay Tiger, I was only focused on

718
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: hay Tiger because you know, I had to find incredible people,

719
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: and then I had.

720
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: To work really closely with them so.

721
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: That you know, they kind of they understood what we

722
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: were doing, and they were clear, and they knew where

723
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, they knew where we were heading. And then

724
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, honestly, it's time for me to honestly just

725
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: just be there to cultivate leadership. That's actually all that

726
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing now with these people.

727
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: They're very competent. Yeah.

728
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 4: Wow.

729
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: And so you said that you've kind of got this

730
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 3: intention that the day will be around a certain business,

731
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: but it's probably not in reality.

732
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: Like I go to different workplaces and then I try

733
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: and work mostly on the place that I'm at, but

734
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: it doesn't always work out that way.

735
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: You're in the tech world and have been in the

736
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: tech world for like most of your adult life. Are

737
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 3: you I want to know, like, what are the technologies

738
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: like apps, gadgets and so forth that have served you best?

739
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 3: What are the things that have made the biggest impact

740
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: in your life.

741
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 2: I've gone through a lot of periods where I've found

742
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: things very very useful. So, you know, I did.

743
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: I had that app on my phone for a while

744
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: which told me I was going to die five times,

745
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: five times a day, which we were talking about. Basically,

746
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: all it says is five times a day. It just

747
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: comes up and goes just a reminder you're going to

748
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: die soon.

749
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: Which sounds really intense.

750
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, if you're trying to get

751
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: back to the core of like I want to be

752
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: present in my life and I want to make every

753
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: moment count of this, it's really good.

754
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: Just suddenly go does all of this actually matter?

755
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: No?

756
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 4: Probably not.

757
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: I'm just going to enjoy it. So that was an

758
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: interesting one. But again I think, you know, having that.

759
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: Come up five times. Also, once my eight year old

760
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 2: could read that was the one. Yeah, you know, I did.

761
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: I took that. I took that off, but it was

762
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: very you know, very useful for its time.

763
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: Funnily enough, the Calm app is the one app that

764
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: I've had, you know, for months, years, years, like I

765
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: think basically since it launched, and that's an app that

766
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: basically has a series of meditations and sleep stories and

767
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: music to help you focus.

768
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: Or help you do whatever it is you might do.

769
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: And out of all the apps that I've ever had,

770
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: I think that's the one that kind of I come

771
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: back to most consistently.

772
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: Hmm, that's cool.

773
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I must say I do like CAM and they

774
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: have been a sponsor of.

775
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: The show because not why I said that, to be clear.

776
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 3: And I've read that You're kind of go to to

777
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: do list manager is Bear?

778
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 4: Yes, still the case.

779
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 2: Yes, I still use Bear.

780
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 1: I really live off Bear. So I am a massive

781
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: list writer. In fact, my parents have often said, because

782
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: my parents are super cool, super hippie, intuitive, arty people,

783
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: and they're always like, we don't know how we got

784
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: this little girl who just loved writing lists, i'd like

785
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: glasses and a mono brown. I organized, and you know,

786
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: so I do. I find lists very very helpful and

787
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: very soothing, and I think they helped me find purpose

788
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: and systems in what it is that I'm doing and

789
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: help me, you know, remember things. And I have lists

790
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: for everything. I've lists for you know, the funny things.

791
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: My kids have said, I have lists for the place

792
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: so I want to travel to, lists for everyone on

793
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: one that I have and you know, and you know,

794
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: they're all categorized and sorted and it's it's pretty intense

795
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: when you look at it, but but it's useful and

796
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: I don't have a diary, and it's but I there's

797
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: a book called The Art of the List, which is

798
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: a French book about a woman who lives in Japan and.

799
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: Is French and rights lists. And she just has a

800
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 2: million different lists that you can write.

801
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: It's very soothing. What are the best meals I've ever had?

802
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: One of my favorite restaurants?

803
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: It's great. I'll stop talking about lists now.

804
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 3: I feel I love lists. I want to know what

805
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: are the categories of list do you have? And also

806
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: you like, do you have shared lists as well?

807
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: I don't have shared lists.

808
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: Funnily enough, might be might be a great thing to do,

809
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: especially with Collis. I can imagine with my husband. I

810
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: think that would be really really good.

811
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: My categories of lists, yeah, I have work to do.

812
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 2: I have work.

813
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: Goals, so you know that like the macro and the

814
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: micro effectively.

815
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 2: I have KI, I have home life. I have fun.

816
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 4: I have travel A fun list like what's on the

817
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 4: fund most a.

818
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 2: Category which is fun.

819
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: So if it's like, here are the I love cooking,

820
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 1: here are the things that I want to bake, that's

821
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: in fun that's categorized by fun and home and kids.

822
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: So I feel like this isn't Actually.

823
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: I love getting the insight into the Minu show. I

824
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 4: think that's great.

825
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: I I do want to ask you about something that

826
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 3: happened in late twenty sixteen where you were kind of

827
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 3: struck with an eye ulcer and had the risk of

828
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 3: going blind, and I want.

829
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 4: To know if you can sort of just share.

830
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 3: What happened during that time and what did you change

831
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: about how you kind of rang your life.

832
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 4: I guess after that.

833
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: That was a really interesting time. So I just in

834
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen I won the Telstra Businessman of the Year award,

835
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: and up till then i'd been completely under the radar,

836
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: had done.

837
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 2: Any public speaking, had just been purely focused on Invarto.

838
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: And when that happened, it just went voomph and I

839
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: started doing a huge amount of public speaking. And you know,

840
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: we're on a bit of a hiring kick, so it

841
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: was a really useful thing to do to start talking

842
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: about in Varto publicly within Australia, because Invarto's only four

843
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: percent Australian market, so there's never been any reason to

844
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: do local pr before.

845
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 2: It's all US and Europe.

846
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: But from an employee brand point of view, it suddenly

847
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: made sense. So did a huge amount of that stuff.

848
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: Found it very It was a period of intense growth.

849
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: I had to kind of, you know, look at a

850
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: bunch of things and try and get comfortable being uncomfortable

851
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: in a way that I hadn't before. And interestingly enough,

852
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: the last night, so basically, you do it for a

853
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: full year, and then the last night before the new

854
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: awards take place, you do a panel where you speak

855
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: to the finalists of the following year. And that morning,

856
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, put my contact lenses in as usual, and

857
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: I'd come during the dad and like, my eye kind

858
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: of hurts, but I'm too busy. I've been running hard,

859
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: like I'd been running really really hard and arguably not

860
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: really resting enough and taking good enough care of myself.

861
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: And by the evening I got off the panel and

862
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: I was like, my eye.

863
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: Is killing me. I made my apologies.

864
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: I went home, you know, washed my eye, I did

865
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and I said to my husband, I'm

866
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: gonna go to bed.

867
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 2: I just my eye is too painful, and he said,

868
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: all right, you know, and I thought we'd be fine.

869
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: In the morning, and I woke up in the morning

870
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: and I thought, whoa, this hurts. And I turned around

871
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: looked at my husband, and he said, oh, okay, I'm

872
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 1: going to take you to hospital.

873
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: Now because your eyes just messed up. And I had an.

874
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: Aggressive bacterial ulca on my cornea and so effectively it

875
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: looked like kind of a milky halo was just taking

876
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: over my eye very very quickly. So we went to

877
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: the hospital and the eye specialist said, look, this looks

878
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: very aggressive.

879
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: You might lose your eye.

880
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: And so it was one of those oh crap, what

881
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: does this mean kind of moments you're thinking, can I

882
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: rock an eyepatch?

883
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: Like you know, like really you know? And there's a

884
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: story I always.

885
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: Tell, but it's just I just can't not tell it

886
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: because he's just such a pure human. Collis was like,

887
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm sitting at hospital. He's like, I'm gonna

888
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: go get us coffees. I'll be back in five minutes.

889
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: And he came back five minutes later and he said, honey,

890
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: it's going to be okay. I just went all the

891
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: way to the cafe ordered and came back with one

892
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: eye closed, and I was fine, And it was just

893
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: one of those moments I think I'll remember on my

894
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: deathbed of just what a pure, beautiful human that man is.

895
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: So but I basically the way that they treated it

896
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: was I had to have like antibiotic eye drops in

897
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: my eye every hour, twenty four hours a day for

898
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: quite some time, like you know, more than a week.

899
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: So I became wu sleep deprived, like really bizarrely, you know,

900
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: if you're not getting any rem sleep and you're only

901
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: sleeping forty five minutes at a time, that's like, you know,

902
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: it's like kind of what they do torture people. As

903
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: far as I understand it, not that I'm deeply experienced

904
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: in that area.

905
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 2: But I might have been told. So, you know, severely

906
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 2: sleep deprived.

907
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: And imagine you're going from you know, working really long hours,

908
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: pushing yourself really hard, running really hard. You have two

909
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: little kids, so two kids under five, and then suddenly

910
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: you're doing nothing, and on top of that, they said,

911
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: you know, this is this sort of ulcer bizarly is

912
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: more painful and doesn't heal as quickly if you're in light,

913
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: so be in the dark all the time.

914
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: So I was just in a dark room. First, I

915
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: was in the hospital, then I was in.

916
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: A dark room, and looking back, it was one of

917
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: the best things that could have happened, because.

918
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: I think I during that period it was a really.

919
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: Like it's like taking a total hiatus from your life

920
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: and this really intense enforced period of So, you know,

921
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 1: what is it that I'm doing in my life?

922
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: Am I enjoying this? Is it the best use of

923
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: my time?

924
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: Knowing that life is potentially short thanks to the eye

925
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: on the app?

926
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: Is this the best way for me to be using

927
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: my time?

928
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: And I'd already established, like you know, life's you know,

929
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: in my mind, life is probably about two things. Having

930
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: really big experiences, so experiencing it, really living it, and

931
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: hopefully in your own little way, doing something that's kind

932
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: of useful and helpful to the world, leaving it in.

933
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: A tiny weeny bit of a better place than it

934
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: was when you arrived.

935
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: I think, when it boils down to it, that's like

936
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 1: my life philosophy, I guess, and I think I realized, Okay, well,

937
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: where in Varto is now international tax law, diversity inclusion programs.

938
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: You know, whilst I'm really grateful that I did those things,

939
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: wasn't where my passion lay anymore in terms of the

940
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: day to day, like what I did with my days.

941
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: I still love Invina, I'm still passionate about it. I'm

942
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: still proud to be a part of it, but in

943
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: terms of my day to day, it just didn't resonate

944
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: with me. And I think I'd always had in my mind,

945
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: I want to do a social enterprise next. And I

946
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: met Daniel and Justine Flynn, who found it thank You Group,

947
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 1: And when I met them, I was like, I want

948
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: to be like you when I grow up, and they're

949
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: like seven years younger.

950
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: Than me, and I was like, I better kind of

951
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: you know, get on with this.

952
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: And I came out the other side of that of

953
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: that period and I thought, all right, I don't even

954
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: know exactly what it is, but I know I want

955
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: to start a new startup. I know that I want

956
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: it to be a social enterprise, because that is you know, Withinvarta.

957
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: One of the things that always resonated.

958
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: With me was how effective it can be at being

959
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: helpful to people, serving its community. And I think that

960
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: business is very focused on oftentimes, you know, serving its

961
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: shareholders only, and I believe that's an outmoded kind of

962
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: attitude and philosophy to business, which leads to a lot

963
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: of you know, the injustices in the world. So a

964
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: social enterprise seemed like the logical conclusion of that way

965
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: of thinking. And I decided I'm just gonna I'm gonna

966
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: look for an idea and ideally I'd like it to

967
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 1: be something I can hold in my hands.

968
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 2: Was my other metric.

969
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 3: So how do you build like this, this rest and

970
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 3: reflective kind of mode into your life since twenty sixteen?

971
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 3: Is that something that you've deliberately done so you don't

972
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: end up like back in hospital.

973
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: I I try to, and I'm not always entirely successful,

974
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: to be told. I mean, I'm not having ended up

975
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: back in hospital, but I'm not entirely successful at balancing.

976
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: Balancing is a constant struggle to me. So what I

977
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: find that I.

978
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 2: Tend to do is I push really hard.

979
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: I try and do everything, and then I have a

980
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: period where I go, oh, no, need.

981
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: To pull back.

982
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: I need to pull back a bit, and then I

983
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: readjust So it's almost like I work in I work

984
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: in cycles.

985
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: I have these cycles where I'm have.

986
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: This tremendous out and I do a huge amount of

987
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: things and I set things up and then and then

988
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: I need to pull back and I need to kind

989
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: of recharge. And that's the thing which makes sense to me.

990
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: I find it very difficult to find balance on a

991
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: day to day level, although I do try, I'm just

992
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: not entirely successful with it.

993
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 4: What does that look like when you pull back? Like

994
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 4: practically speaking.

995
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: So when I pull back, I try to work like

996
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: work less, which is you know, hard for me. I

997
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: try and be less involved in my you know, in

998
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 1: my email, in my day to day and generally speaking,

999
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: it coincides with a time when you know, I'm like,

1000
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: oh no, the team actually has this and an actual fact,

1001
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: it serves them best for me to get out of

1002
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: the way as well, because sometimes I can, because I'm

1003
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: trying to do so many things, I can be like

1004
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: a traffic block. So it oftentimes serves everybody really well.

1005
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: If I suddenly go, okay, I'm not coping very well

1006
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,479
Speaker 1: at this point, I can see that I've gone too

1007
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 1: far into intense stress not being present mode. I'm going

1008
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: to really try and pull this back and just be still.

1009
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: And it's happened enough times now that I realized I

1010
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: need to have faith in the process, and I think

1011
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: reading things like you know about artists and musicians and

1012
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: composers where they have these periods of great creativity and

1013
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: great output and you know, incredible fruitfulness and then these

1014
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: periods where everything's almost like laying fallow. That's really helpful

1015
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: to me to consider it in that way, because I

1016
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 1: do find it quite stressful when I have these periods

1017
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: where I need to pull it back.

1018
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 4: Now, I've got two final questions for you.

1019
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: Firstly, the Hunger Project, which which I can share that

1020
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 3: we've raised one hundred and thirty six dollars, so thank

1021
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: you everyone for your donations. And it's like, can you

1022
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 3: tell me a bit about what the Hunger Project is

1023
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 3: and why that's your charity of choice.

1024
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: T HP, the Hunger Project Garner is Hate Tiger's child partner.

1025
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 2: So Hay Tiger is a social enterprise.

1026
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: It exists to support coco farming communities in Ghana, and.

1027
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: Beyond that, it kind of it's honestly a bit of.

1028
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: An experiment in terms of figuring out how kind of

1029
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: what a business can be if it exists to serve

1030
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: the communities that it interacts with. So this concept that

1031
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: all parties rise in the transaction, I find to be

1032
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: a really interesting concept. You know, people don't like talking

1033
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,959
Speaker 1: about capitalism, but the best possible version of capitalism where

1034
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: everyone wins. I'm not saying we're there, it's going to

1035
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: be like a ten year project, but I find that

1036
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: concept a really interesting one.

1037
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: So a big.

1038
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 1: Problem in the coco industry is that generally farmers owns

1039
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: seventy three cents per day, which is well below the

1040
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: poverty line, and cocoa farmers in West Africa, and there's

1041
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: two point two million children in child labor on coca

1042
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 1: plantations in West Africa. Those are both things that felt

1043
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: to me like really really broken components of an industry

1044
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: that you know, is responsible for something that I absolutely

1045
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: love and I know that I and many people get

1046
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: a great deal of pleasure out of So when it

1047
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: came time to look for a charitable partner to donate

1048
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: funds from each bar too, I was really looking for

1049
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: an organization that would holistically support these communities, these coco

1050
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: farming communities, because all the kind of all the research

1051
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: on this issue seems to be that it's about it's

1052
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: a greater issue than paying more for cocoa. So we

1053
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: source all our coco ethically, but that that alone is

1054
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: really not going to shift the doll because there are

1055
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: major systemic issues. So what I loved about THHP is

1056
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: that it's really holistic. It's focused on women, which I

1057
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: think study after study now indicate is the best way

1058
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: if you're going to fund charitable projects, funding women is a.

1059
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 2: Really really effect give way to go about doing it.

1060
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: They tend to just put more money back into their

1061
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: local communities than.

1062
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: Men do for whatever reason. And I think what's interesting about.

1063
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: THHP is that, you know, it covers everything from microfinance

1064
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: loans for women farmers, to farming practices to First one

1065
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: thousand Days of life programs to.

1066
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: Save birth to HIV AIDS education.

1067
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 1: It's the more I dive into it, it's this multi step,

1068
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: holistic program based around education. That is that it kind

1069
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: of has a virality to it, which I find really

1070
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: really interesting. And the whole idea is the community reaches

1071
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: self reliance on their own terms within ten years.

1072
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 4: That's awesome.

1073
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 3: And my final question, if people want to discover more

1074
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 3: about you and what you're doing or your businesses, where

1075
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 3: should they go?

1076
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 2: So I guess you could go to Instagram.

1077
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: I'm at science Cya NC TAD tawd.

1078
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 2: We've got a's a curd to name, so spelling it is.

1079
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: Necessary, and or you know, you know, hey, target dot

1080
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: com dot are you has you know a lot of

1081
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: information about what we.

1082
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: Do in the chocolate that we make and why we

1083
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: do it.

1084
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 1: And then there's Milkshake, which is the new the new

1085
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: app we launched, which is basically all about being able

1086
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: to set up a website in your phone within ten

1087
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: minutes via Instagram, which is very pretty and very useful.

1088
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: I think to a lot.

1089
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: Of entrepreneurs who you know, run their businesses from their phone.

1090
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 3: So any of those things awesome, fantastic, Si, It's been

1091
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 3: an absolute pleasure.

1092
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Never enjoyed you in thinking sky.

1093
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 4: That is it for today's show.

1094
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed my chat with SI and got

1095
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 3: some practical strategies that you might think about applying in

1096
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 3: your own life. I know that I took a bunch

1097
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 3: of really useful things from my chat with Si, and

1098
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 3: despite having known her for years, I learned a whole

1099
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 3: bunch of new.

1100
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 4: Stuff about it, which was awesome.

1101
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 3: So if you know someone who you think could benefit

1102
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 3: from this show or find this interview interesting, why not

1103
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Speaker 3: share the episode with them, and if you're enjoying how

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Speaker 3: I work, I would love it if you could take

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00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 3: five seconds out of your day to write a review.

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Speaker 3: It's absolutely lovely getting feedback from listeners and it also

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Speaker 3: helps other people find the show. So on that note,

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Speaker 3: thank you for listening and I'll see you next time.