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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's.

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Speaker 2: We're playing Andy Pandy for you, Andrew?

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Speaker 3: How are you? Am we going to hear it?

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Speaker 2: I was going to read a really serious introduction. Well,

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Speaker 2: I'll wait till this song finishes. Is that passed for

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Speaker 2: entertainment when we grew.

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Speaker 3: Up back in the twenty Well, let.

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Speaker 2: Me be serious for a moment, because in twenty fifteen, you,

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Speaker 2: Andrew Denton, this is like this is your life. You

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Speaker 2: had a podcast that investigated why good people were dying

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Speaker 2: bad deaths in Australia there was no law to help them.

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Speaker 2: So all these years later, twenty twenty one, where we

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Speaker 2: are now, legislation has changed and many people are crediting

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Speaker 2: you for various states adopting the voluntary assisted dying law.

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Speaker 2: But there's still more to do, As you say in

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Speaker 2: your Better Off Dead podcast Part two, Hello, how are

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Speaker 2: you good?

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Speaker 1: More? Thank you for that very touching introduction with Andy Pandy,

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Speaker 1: which still passes his entertainment apparently not really, no, not really,

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Speaker 1: very kind of you to say, certainly not down to

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Speaker 1: be these laws pastors, been people working at this for

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Speaker 1: years and years now. I'm sorry to say that the

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Speaker 1: main reason the law's passed is because of people like

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Speaker 1: my dad who didn't die well.

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Speaker 2: So Victoria has adopted this. I think am I right

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Speaker 2: in saying that Western Australia is following suit. It's Tasmania

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Speaker 2: and it's up for discussion in other states at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Too, that's right. In fact, pretty much the only state

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Speaker 1: where it's not on the front burner is New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: And look, why is this? Is this the same as

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Speaker 2: the same sex marriage debate where the majority of the

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Speaker 2: citizens say yes? But is there some conservative seam up

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Speaker 2: the top of decision makers that say no?

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Speaker 1: Yep, that's pretty much it. And in fact you won't

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Speaker 1: find a social issue on which there has been for

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Speaker 1: years now more support for this. It's consistent points about

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Speaker 1: eighty percent, and amongst Catholics Anglicans about seventy percent. So yeah, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the politics of politics means that a conservative politicians and

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Speaker 1: there's there's a strong Christian influence on both sides of

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Speaker 1: the parliament still get to control this debate.

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Speaker 3: But it's a worse subject to talk about, isn't it?

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Speaker 3: An until like you went through it with your father

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Speaker 3: and I went through it with my father. It's such

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Speaker 3: a that end of those last six weeks. It's just

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Speaker 3: it's just brutal.

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Speaker 1: It can be jonesy, and you know, it is tough

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Speaker 1: to talk about. It's tough to talk about this time

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Speaker 1: in the morning, but I can. I'll bet that there's

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of your audience listening going, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know what they're referring to. And it's not that we

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Speaker 1: don't have a great helpers. We've got one of the

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Speaker 1: best health systems in the world, whether there's pallided care

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Speaker 1: systems in the world. It's just that we didn't sound

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Speaker 1: much longer than we ever used to, and unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: human body breaks down in ways that medicine can't always

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Speaker 1: deal with.

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Speaker 2: Since the laws have changed in Victoria was the first one.

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Speaker 2: Has there been a downside? All the people who are

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Speaker 2: fitful of what this means, what is that? Has there

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Speaker 2: have we seen anything wrong?

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Speaker 1: No, absolutely nothing, all those things that was you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the gist of the reason given why you

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Speaker 1: could never pass this law is oh, they could never

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Speaker 1: be safe. Well, I've spent about a year talking to

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Speaker 1: people right across the board in the system, and I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you there is no area of medical So

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Speaker 1: it's more carefully scrutinize than this. But the main thing is, Amanda,

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Speaker 1: you know what I found talking to the families that

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Speaker 1: have been through this and people have actually have the

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Speaker 1: medication should they choose to use it, just immense love,

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Speaker 1: you know, it is an active, incredible love. The very

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Speaker 1: first episode of the podcast is about a family who's

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Speaker 1: young man thirty six mode in your own disease and

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Speaker 1: they farewell him and they saw him through this thing.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine what it's like to love your boy

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Speaker 1: so much that you will actually and you can see

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Speaker 1: suffering so much that you will help him to die.

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Speaker 1: It's an incredible act of love and very powerful.

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Speaker 3: And.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's no easy way out of this world.

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Speaker 1: We've still going to go. This is the most human

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Speaker 1: way if you really suffering, But it's still hard.

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Speaker 2: And I know that many people who were given the

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Speaker 2: option don't always take it, but having that option changes

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Speaker 2: their life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, it's that thing. We can all imagine it.

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Speaker 1: If you're in that really terrible underlized situation. Do you

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Speaker 1: really want to be at the mercy of what doctors

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Speaker 1: think is best or wider to the machines that go

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Speaker 1: being wouldn't you rather be if you can somewhere, if

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Speaker 1: your choosing and you name the time and you get

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Speaker 1: to say goodbye, you don't end up kind of enough

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Speaker 1: in this cocktail of drugs and maybe you're not even

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Speaker 1: able to talk. It's a very human reaction. But having

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Speaker 1: said that, it takes incredible courage to do it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, a small number of people overseas these laws

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Speaker 1: have been around for time years overseas do it, and

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Speaker 1: a small number of people in Victoria have done it

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Speaker 1: because it still takes a lot of courage to take

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Speaker 1: that final step.

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Speaker 2: You know, you said you don't want your fortune the

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Speaker 2: way you go to be in the doctor's hands. Is

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Speaker 2: it the doctor's hands or the politician's hands?

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Speaker 1: Now, well, I mean in terms of the laws the politicians.

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Speaker 1: But you know, one of the most powerful forces against

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Speaker 1: these laws have been doctors, many of whom actually have

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Speaker 1: a strong religious view but don't talk about that publicly.

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Speaker 1: And that vieways, essentially, look, God determines the days of

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Speaker 1: our lives and determines our deaths as well. Now, of

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Speaker 1: course that's an important views. They're entitled to it, but

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Speaker 1: I think most of us feel like, yeah, you're welcome

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Speaker 1: to it. But it's not our few.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think most Australians would be surprised to hear

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Speaker 2: about that that heavy religious seam the top decision makers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look it's not just that. I mean I've

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Speaker 1: spoken to so many politicians about this. They all tend

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Speaker 1: to grapple with it pretty solidly and you know, diligently.

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Speaker 1: But they're also there's very books for bear campaign run

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Speaker 1: by those who oppose this law, which does make politicians thinks, oh,

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Speaker 1: could never be what's so great about Victoria which has

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Speaker 1: been going newly coming off for two years now. You

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Speaker 1: can see how it's worked, and you can see how

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Speaker 1: carefully it's run and run by people who have really

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Speaker 1: seen here and have a lot of integrity and experience.

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Speaker 1: And you can see that those arguments against were just

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Speaker 1: the fear campaign and more of the point Victoria's law

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Speaker 1: shows when you year some of these stories and to

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Speaker 1: see why these people choose this law and that they're

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Speaker 1: so far beyond medical help. Now you also understand is

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Speaker 1: the need for this law. It's not just it's not

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Speaker 1: a culture war, it's not something like that. There's a

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Speaker 1: real medical, human societal need for this law.

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Speaker 3: And you're the guy to do it, Brookly subjects you're

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Speaker 3: good at brooking stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks, oh brook none of that. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: You will be on the poster for your podcast day

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Speaker 2: Brooks stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say you're doing the lord's work, but

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Speaker 2: that's probably not what you want to hear.

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Speaker 1: Cooking Groundhouse.

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Speaker 2: I guess okay, we'll settle for that.

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Speaker 3: Well, Andrew, it's always great to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: So the podcast is called Better Off Dead Get it

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Speaker 2: will get all your podcasts? And are there are many

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Speaker 2: laughs in it? Andrew?

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Speaker 1: The bigs, Look, there's there's not many, but there's one beauty.

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Speaker 1: I'll be very quick because I know you're going to

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Speaker 1: the news. But a woman whose dad was very Catholic,

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Speaker 1: and of course Catholic church are against this, but the

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Speaker 1: local priest came to kind of give him the last

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Speaker 1: or well to give them a blessing and could see

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Speaker 1: what was going on and knew it was kind of

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Speaker 1: a problem, but said, look, is there anything you want

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Speaker 1: me to say at your surface? And the guy who

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Speaker 1: is dying was too ill to speak and his daughter

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Speaker 1: was too overcome, so his son in law step forward

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Speaker 1: and said, yep, father, I think I speak for Phil

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Speaker 1: when I say just enough holy shit to get him

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Speaker 1: through the gate.

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Speaker 2: Andrew, thank you, thank you, goods of love, talk to

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Speaker 2: you later.

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Speaker 1: Jones and Amanda's