1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 1: At Superhuman, we build software like it as a game. Now,

2
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,479
Speaker 1: most software companies worry about what users want or what

3
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 1: users need, But if you think about it, nobody needs

4
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,919
Speaker 1: a game to exist. There are no requirements. When you

5
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 1: make a game, you don't worry about what users want

6
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 1: or what they need. Instead, you obsess over how they feel.

7
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: Because when your product is a game, people don't just

8
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 1: use it. They play it, They find it fun, they

9
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,120
Speaker 1: tell their friends, they even fall in love with it.

10
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,200
Speaker 1: And it turns out that game design is an altogether

11
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 1: different kind of product development. I was professionally a game designer,

12
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 1: and I've been actually designing games since I was a

13
00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 1: little kid, and I think that is the thing that

14
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 1: separates my approach as a product person and Superhuman's approach

15
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 1: as a company to building software.

16
00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

17
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 2: you use by the world's most accessiful people to get

18
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:01,840
Speaker 2: so much.

19
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,080
Speaker 3: Out of their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba.

20
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 2: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium,

21
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day.

22
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,959
Speaker 2: Before we get to today's show, I just wanted to

23
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,479
Speaker 2: do a big shout out to all the wonderful people

24
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,479
Speaker 2: that have been leaving reviews for How I Work. It's

25
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 2: just so lovely getting your feedback on the show and

26
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,680
Speaker 2: reading your reviews, So a huge thank you to those.

27
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 3: That have done that.

28
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,280
Speaker 2: And if you haven't done that, but you're enjoying How

29
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 2: I Work finding it useful in some way, I would

30
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 2: love it if you could leave a star rating or

31
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,759
Speaker 2: a few words wherever you listen to this podcast. It's

32
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 2: hugely appreciated and also is a great way of helping

33
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 2: other people find out about How I Work. And also

34
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 2: a reminder if you have a question that you would

35
00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 2: like me to answer. I am continuing to do a

36
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,360
Speaker 2: few listener question episodes and I'll be recording a few

37
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 2: more of those over summers. So if you've got a

38
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,240
Speaker 2: question on your mind around the world of work or

39
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,919
Speaker 2: productivity or something around those topics, drop me a note

40
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 2: at Amantha at Inventium dot com dot au. All right,

41
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 2: let's get on to today's episode. Now. If you're a

42
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,800
Speaker 2: regular listener of How I Work, you will know that

43
00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,799
Speaker 2: I am in love with Superhuman, which is an email client,

44
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,640
Speaker 2: which basically means it's my way of accessing all of

45
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 2: my emails. So at Inventium we use a Gmail or

46
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,360
Speaker 2: the g suite of products for our email.

47
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:43,720
Speaker 3: But with an email.

48
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,680
Speaker 2: Client, you basically can get all your emails sent to

49
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,919
Speaker 2: different software and for me, I choose Superhuman. I've been

50
00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 2: a user for I think about eighteen months now.

51
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,480
Speaker 3: I initially found.

52
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 2: Out about Superhuman through Tim Kendall, who was a guest

53
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 2: on this show. He used to be the president of

54
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,639
Speaker 2: Pinterest and then is now CEO of Moment, which is

55
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 2: an app that helps you spend less time on your

56
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 2: phone and it's just awesome. It makes email a joy.

57
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 2: So I was so keen to get Rahul Vora on

58
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,400
Speaker 2: the show because Rahul is the founder and CEO of

59
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 2: Superhuman And in case you haven't heard of Superhuman, it

60
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: is literally the fastest email experience in the world. So

61
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 2: according to Superhuman, users get through their inbox twice as

62
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 2: fast and many see inbox zero for the first time

63
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 2: in years. Previously, Rahul founded reportive, the first Gmail plug

64
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 2: in to scale to millions of users, and Reportive was

65
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 2: acquired by LinkedIn and I was also a big fan

66
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 2: of Reportive. I love that plug in and found it

67
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 2: very very useful. So I was so excited to speak

68
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,480
Speaker 2: to Rahul, someone that has spent the life last few

69
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,440
Speaker 2: years really thinking a lot and I would say obsessing

70
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,800
Speaker 2: about email and productivity. And I got to say, this

71
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 2: is one of my favorite interviews from this year. Rahul

72
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,920
Speaker 2: just has so many very very practical strategies in this interview.

73
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,600
Speaker 2: He is so articulate and so thoughtful, and there are

74
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 2: quite a few things in this interview that I had

75
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 2: never come across before in terms of strategies, and certainly

76
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 2: have really challenged and changed some of the ways I

77
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 2: think about my work and approach the different tasks.

78
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 3: In my day.

79
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 2: So on that note, let's head to Rahul to hear

80
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 2: about how he works.

81
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 3: Rahul, welcome to the show.

82
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me excited to be here.

83
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 2: Oh I am so excited that I was able to

84
00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 2: get you on the show as a guest because I

85
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,280
Speaker 2: am a massive, superhuman fan. I was going to say

86
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 2: the biggest fan, but I just feel like there are

87
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,239
Speaker 2: so many fans out there I can't possibly claim that title.

88
00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 2: So Firsley, thank you for just creating such a wonderful

89
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 2: email client that really does make email quite joyful.

90
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 1: You're so very welcome. Thank you for being such a

91
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,600
Speaker 1: happy user. Warms my heart to hear it.

92
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 3: Oh good, good.

93
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 2: Now, I feel like you obviously have spent years and

94
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,799
Speaker 2: years and years thinking about email, thinking about your own

95
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,039
Speaker 2: workflow for email, and I'd love to start there. So

96
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 2: can you talk me through? I guess, firstly, what is

97
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 2: your relationship with email? Given this is the thing that

98
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,400
Speaker 2: you focused on every day, and what like? In a

99
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,279
Speaker 2: more nitty gritty detail, I guess does your workflow look

100
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,920
Speaker 2: like for processing email?

101
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,919
Speaker 1: Well, starting with my relationship with email, it really does

102
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,279
Speaker 1: go back quite some way back in the day. I

103
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,680
Speaker 1: founded a company that folks may remember called Reportive, which

104
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,200
Speaker 1: was the first Gmail plugin to scale to millions of users.

105
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 1: We sold that to LinkedIn at a round two twenty twelve,

106
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 1: then it became LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and the idea behind

107
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,480
Speaker 1: reported was pretty simple. On the right hand side of Gmail,

108
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 1: we showed you what people look like, where they work,

109
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,279
Speaker 1: their recent tweets, links to their social profiles, so we

110
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: could help you establish connection, like a real personal connection

111
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,280
Speaker 1: with people much better in your email. And now, as

112
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, I'm the founder and CEO of Superhuman, where

113
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 1: we make the fastest email experience in the world. Most

114
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 1: of our users end up getting through their inbox twice

115
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,480
Speaker 1: as fast as before, and many of them see inbox

116
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: zero for the first time in years, which, as you

117
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,720
Speaker 1: can imagine, is pretty life changing. So my own personal

118
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,719
Speaker 1: workflow for email now, I get thousands of emails every

119
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,479
Speaker 1: single day. There are certain minutes in the day where

120
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 1: I'm receiving north of five to seven emails in that minute,

121
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,040
Speaker 1: so you know, an email every ten to eleven seconds.

122
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 1: This is, therefore, something I've thought a lot about. Without

123
00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,800
Speaker 1: specialized tooling like Superhuman, it would be impossible more than

124
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,320
Speaker 1: a full time job to stay on top of it.

125
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: So there's a few different things. First of all, I

126
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: almost never ever touch the mouse. We design Superhumans so

127
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: that you can do everything from the keyboard. You can

128
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: fly through your inbox purely by typing, and that's a

129
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 1: rule that I abide by, not just inside Superhuman, by

130
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 1: the way, but in almost every piece of software I use.

131
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,280
Speaker 1: I go above and beyond to make sure I'm learning

132
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 1: those keyboard shortcuts and becoming more efficient and more productive

133
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 1: as a result. So that's step one. Step two is

134
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 1: to make very liberal use of our split inbox feature.

135
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: Do you yourself use the split inbox feature?

136
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 3: I sure do so.

137
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 2: In a nutshell, my workflow with email, everything comes into

138
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 2: the inbox.

139
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 3: Then I've got and actually got.

140
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: This from Laura may Martin from Google who's their executive

141
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 2: productive advisor. I took what she shed on the show,

142
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 2: and so I've got my inbox where everything comes into.

143
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 2: Then anything that needs to be actioned by me and

144
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 2: doesn't rely on anyone else, I actually star them, so

145
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 2: I hit the S shortcut and then that goes into

146
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,960
Speaker 2: my to do list inbox. I've also got a read

147
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 2: later inbox, and I loved when I was able to

148
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 2: do that with Superhuman in terms of splitting my inbox

149
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 2: into just labeling things read later, and then they go

150
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,199
Speaker 2: into that inbox.

151
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,079
Speaker 3: And then I've got all.

152
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 2: My subscriptions and calendar invites and things that are sort

153
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,280
Speaker 2: of the non urgent not sent from an actual human

154
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 2: to me inbox. I've got my four inboxes and that's

155
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,079
Speaker 2: my workflow. Like I'll batch process to do items, I'll

156
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,599
Speaker 2: batch process my inbox and try to clear it or

157
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 2: get it to at least inbox five or six at

158
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 2: the end of the day.

159
00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:57,600
Speaker 3: So that's in a nutshell.

160
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 1: What I do fantastic, really great to hear that usage

161
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 1: of split in box. It's just one of those magical

162
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 1: features where everybody has its set up differently and in

163
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,720
Speaker 1: a way that is optimal for them, so mine is

164
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 1: very different. I have a split for GitHub. Obviously we're

165
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: a technology company. The engineering team is the critical path

166
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 1: to getting stuff done. So I want to be the best,

167
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: most responsive CEO and founder that I can possibly be.

168
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: If someone tags me on GitHub saying hey, what should

169
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 1: the copy be here? Or can you please review this

170
00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,199
Speaker 1: piece of code or this piece of functionality, I want

171
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 1: to be right there unblocking the team immediately. And as

172
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,920
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur that's important. The way that we act and

173
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: react sets the bar of agility for the company. So

174
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 1: I have a GitHub split. All mentions on GitHub come

175
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,200
Speaker 1: to me. Similarly, I also have a Google Docs split.

176
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 1: We now are about sixty people inside of Superhuman. Roughly

177
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,720
Speaker 1: a third going on a little bit more are engineering.

178
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: The rest is across every single other function and I

179
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,080
Speaker 1: want to know whenever I am commented or addressed in

180
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,319
Speaker 1: a Google Doc, I want to be able to jump

181
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,600
Speaker 1: in and unblock as quickly as possible to speed up

182
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,560
Speaker 1: decision making inside a company. So I have a Google

183
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 1: Doc split. I also have a staff and team split.

184
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 1: This is an internal email split. This allows me to

185
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 1: separate external conversation from internal conversation because we are now

186
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,600
Speaker 1: at the phase of company where internal conversation is the

187
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,840
Speaker 1: stuff that needs to happen as rapidly as possible. Generally speaking,

188
00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 1: that's true for most organizations at around this size. It's

189
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,199
Speaker 1: a little bit different when you're smaller. It's also a

190
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,080
Speaker 1: little bit different when you're later. And then finally, I

191
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,320
Speaker 1: use the important other split. As you might know, this

192
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 1: is an AI driven split to separate out person to

193
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: person email correspondence from things like e commerce promotions and

194
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 1: other forms of automated email. Now, the cool thing about

195
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: this set up splits is it gives me a structure

196
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,880
Speaker 1: that mirrors the structure of my day. So the first

197
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: thing in the morning, I meant the getsub split, unblocking

198
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 1: all the engineering team. Then I'm in the Google Doc split,

199
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: unblocking everybody else. Then I deal with internal email, and

200
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,800
Speaker 1: then I get back to the outside world. And I

201
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 1: almost never ever go to the other splits. I think

202
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 1: the only time is whenever I do when I've reset

203
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,079
Speaker 1: a password or something like that, and I know it's

204
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: going to be sitting in there amongst the huge number

205
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 1: of emails that I don't have to look at. So

206
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 1: that's a triarche level. Things get split into the inboxes like.

207
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 2: This interesting And so basically you're going through the main

208
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,080
Speaker 2: inbox where everything's arriving, and then petitioning them off or

209
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,560
Speaker 2: filing them into the right split inbox, or have you

210
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: got it set up that things will automatically land in

211
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,560
Speaker 2: the correct split the latter.

212
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: This is the magic of split inbox. I think if

213
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: I were automatically filing, the benefits wouldn't be significantly greater

214
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:04,199
Speaker 1: over Gmail directly. But because all of these things automatically

215
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: end up in their respective inboxes, it saves me significant

216
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 1: amounts of time. Also, and this is the nuanced point.

217
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: It saves me significant amounts of context switch overhead. And

218
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,560
Speaker 1: every engineer would be familiar with that term. Processes are

219
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 1: designed to avoid context switch overhead. That's how today's processes

220
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,520
Speaker 1: get so fast. And when you think about the human mind,

221
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 1: it's an often bandeid about term, but the idea is

222
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 1: the same. It takes us about twenty to twenty three

223
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 1: minutes to recover from an interruption. Similarly takes us that

224
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,040
Speaker 1: amount of time to recover from a context switch. If

225
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: you imagine a typical inbox and you're going from an

226
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,560
Speaker 1: email with a candidate to an email where you're organizing

227
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: the podcast, to an email where you're maybe talking to

228
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 1: a potential investor, to an email where you're doing customer support,

229
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 1: to an email where you're commenting on an internal management document,

230
00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 1: to an email where you're dealing with an engineering question.

231
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 1: That is just so much context switch that to go

232
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 1: through my inbox linearly would be absurd. I wouldn't be

233
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: able to get through it. And I think that's true

234
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 1: for most knowledge workers today. We're all doing so many

235
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,960
Speaker 1: more different kinds of things than we were doing before

236
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 1: that you need software to help you make sense of

237
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: the chaos and to be able to split things up

238
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 1: into different streams of work.

239
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 2: And so do you batch process your email then during

240
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,119
Speaker 2: the day, Like how often would you close superhuman?

241
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:29,760
Speaker 3: For example?

242
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 1: Superhuman is constantly open for me. However I only do

243
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,280
Speaker 1: email in a batch twice a day, so I look

244
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,839
Speaker 1: at it first thing in the morning just to see

245
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: if anything unusual has happened Over night. Is there anything

246
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 1: that I need to jump on top of right away?

247
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: I would say that's relatively rare. That's probably once a

248
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,760
Speaker 1: week where I have to sort of groggly send an

249
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: email from bed, so to speak. Usually not a common occurrence.

250
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 1: And then typically it's an hour in the morning and

251
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 1: about an hour or two in the evening. The email

252
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 1: workload is greater at the beginning of the week, so

253
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,920
Speaker 1: mondays it will tend to be about two hours because

254
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 1: there's all of the weekend to catch up on as well.

255
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 1: I don't actually do my email on the weekend. That's

256
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 1: a relatively unusual thing. I think most people do. So

257
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 1: Monday is a little bit heavier, and then by the

258
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 1: end of the week it's quite a bit lighter. And

259
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 1: I do hit Inboxero every single day.

260
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,200
Speaker 3: Wow, and no email on the weekend. Tell me about that.

261
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,520
Speaker 1: I just believe that the weekends should be for rest

262
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 1: and recuperation. And when you get thousands of emails every

263
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 1: single day, like I said, I could if I wanted

264
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 1: to spend my entire day doing email, and it's just

265
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,560
Speaker 1: not a sensible or a good use of time for

266
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 1: me to do that. So I'll keep an eye on it.

267
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 1: I do have notifications on my devices, and so I

268
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 1: see the emails come in. I am, of course, only

269
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 1: getting notified on the important emails, and I'll jump on

270
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 1: something that needs immediate attention, but that is increasingly rare.

271
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 2: I imagine that there would be a lot of listeners,

272
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 2: like other CEOs senior leaders who I don't know if

273
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,760
Speaker 2: they're getting thousands of emails a day, but that'd be like,

274
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,160
Speaker 2: how are you limiting your time in your inbox to

275
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 2: just two one hour blocks a day? Like what are

276
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 2: you doing differently other than what we've already spoken about

277
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 2: that is allowing you to do that?

278
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 3: Are there any.

279
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,960
Speaker 2: Other kind of tricks or hacks or things that you're

280
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,560
Speaker 2: doing differently to the average person?

281
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 1: Quite probably. So there's really two different levels of this,

282
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 1: or several. Actually. The first level is what I call

283
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: the mechanical or the control level. And I said this before,

284
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 1: I'll say it again because it's so important you have

285
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 1: to stop touching them mouse. We don't even notice the

286
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 1: slowdown that it causes because our brain is involved in

287
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 1: the mechanical work of moving your elbow and your wrist

288
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,240
Speaker 1: and your fingers, and so the time therefore just seems

289
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 1: to pass, but it really does add up over the

290
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 1: course of the day. I can place you human the

291
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: same way I can play the piano, and that itself

292
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 1: creates a ton of efficiency. The next level is of triage.

293
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: When you're receiving not just thousands, even hundreds of emails

294
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 1: a day, you can't feasibly get through every single one,

295
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 1: and so you have to use something like split inbox

296
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 1: to make sure that the emails that you do get

297
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,680
Speaker 1: to are actually the ones that matter the most. I don't,

298
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,000
Speaker 1: of course, look at the thousands of emails I get

299
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 1: every single day. I rely on splits like important other

300
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 1: like team like Heurban Google docs to make sure I'm

301
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 1: getting to the most important ones. And thereafter it's things

302
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 1: like our snippets feature. So you probably know that you

303
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,000
Speaker 1: can create. These templates are sort of like canned responses,

304
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 1: but on steroids. They're so much more powerful that automates

305
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: a lot of the repetitive aspects of email. So typically

306
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 1: I'll get perhaps fifty emails a week from folks saying, Hey,

307
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: I heard about superhuman on a podcast and i'd really

308
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 1: love access. How do I you know or can you

309
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,479
Speaker 1: please introduce my friends to Superhuman? I really want them

310
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 1: to have access, And so what I will do is

311
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 1: I'll then use a snippet, and the snippet will simultaneously

312
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: do a whole bunch of different things. It will move

313
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 1: the sender to BCC, will thank them for making the introduction,

314
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 1: It will c see the right members of my team,

315
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: it will becc our internal CRM, and it will type

316
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: out a really nice email. And it can do all

317
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,440
Speaker 1: of that in two seconds. So you take a five

318
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: minute activity, you make it a two second activity, and

319
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,159
Speaker 1: you can start to see how I can stay on

320
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 1: top of an inbox that is receiving thousands of emails

321
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,400
Speaker 1: a day and still hit inbox zero every single day.

322
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that's great, and I must say

323
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 2: I love snippets. I realize so heavily on that feature.

324
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,919
Speaker 2: I want to come back to what you were saying

325
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 2: about not using the mouse and just using keyboard shortcuts,

326
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 2: and I feel like I'm maybe I'm halfway there with

327
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,159
Speaker 2: super Huge, and I'm just thinking I do use the

328
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 2: mouse actually to go between my split inboxes. But I

329
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 2: guess a more general question like if someone is listening

330
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 2: to this and going that makes so much sense, but

331
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 2: it can be hard to remember keyboard shortcuts how well, like,

332
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 2: what's the best way to approach that? How do you

333
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 2: approach that when you're learning new software so that you

334
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 2: can use it as efficiently as possible.

335
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 1: The good news is most software shares a common set

336
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,280
Speaker 1: of keyboard shortcuts, so once you start to develop the

337
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: muscle memory, you can very intuitively learn shortcuts in any

338
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: new app that you pick up. So I suspect that

339
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: every listener listening to us on this podcast will know

340
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 1: command see or control SEE, and command V or control VAS,

341
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 1: copy and paste, and almost everyone will know command or

342
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 1: control b IU for bold, italic and underlying. And the

343
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,280
Speaker 1: reason we know these is because they work in basically

344
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,439
Speaker 1: every single context that you might want to use them in.

345
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 1: That's also, fortunately, how other keyboard shortcuts work. So, for example,

346
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: this this notion of changing splits where you're using the mouse.

347
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 1: For example, if you were to just hit tab, you'd

348
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 1: go over to the next split, and if you hit

349
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,919
Speaker 1: shift tab you go to the previous split. That is

350
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: actually a fairly common convention in software. This works on

351
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 1: both Windows and Mac. Hitting tab will typically take you

352
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: to the next control, the next thing that you can

353
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: interact with on the screen, hitting shift tab will typically

354
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 1: take you to the previous one. But this is a

355
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 1: real problem. It's not easy, and I do realize that

356
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,199
Speaker 1: you know, there is effort involved when it comes to

357
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,639
Speaker 1: learning and remembering these keyboard shortcuts. So we built this

358
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 1: really cool thing called Superhuman Command, and in our onboardings

359
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,959
Speaker 1: we teach people that you really only have to remember

360
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 1: one of them, and that is command K. You hit

361
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: command K and pops this box. You then simply type

362
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: in the thing that you to do. You can even

363
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 1: misspell it if you like, and it will not only

364
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 1: give you the command for doing it right there and

365
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,840
Speaker 1: then so you just hit answer, it will also show

366
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 1: you the keyboard shortcut for doing it the next time.

367
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,239
Speaker 1: So a really simple example, let's say you didn't know

368
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 1: the shortcut to compose an email. Hit command K, type

369
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: in a few characters of the word composed. It could

370
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: be let's say com and it will show you that

371
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: the shortcut is C. So when you're doing it that

372
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 1: first time, you can just hit entwer and you're composing

373
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 1: an email, and the next time you can hit C

374
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 1: and you'll be off to the races. You'll never actually

375
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: have to look that one up again. So that's how

376
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: most users learn the Superhuman shortcuts.

377
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 2: Now, you mentioned the onboarding process of Superhuman, which, when

378
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 2: I think about all the software applications that I've used

379
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 2: in my life, this was like an onboarding process that

380
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 2: I've never experienced. I told so many people about it,

381
00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: and I've never experienced anything that amazing. Can you describe

382
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 2: to listeners what does the onboarding process look like? And

383
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm assuming because I've been using Superhuman for I don't know,

384
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 2: eighteen months now or something like that, I'm assuming that

385
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 2: it hasn't changed overly. But essentially, there was a human

386
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 2: that onboarded me. And how you actually designed that process,

387
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 2: which was just it was joyful.

388
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad to hear that because that was

389
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: the key thing that we were designing for joy or delights,

390
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: And folks who know me know that in my previous life,

391
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: I actually used to be a game designer. So we're

392
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 1: bringing a lot of that idea behind game design into

393
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: how we designed the Superhuman experience. We specifically design for

394
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: joy or delight, which we define as pleasant surprise. So

395
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: instead of just leaving our customers with the product, which

396
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: I think almost any other company would do, we provide

397
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 1: this personalized one to one concierge onboarding experience to every

398
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 1: new customer. Now, these happen with one of our wonderful

399
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: onboarding specialists, who are not only experts in email, there

400
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: are also experts in productivity. So yes, they learn about you,

401
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: they learn how you're doing your email now, and then

402
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: they show you how to do it twice as fast.

403
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: Inside of Superhuman. They'll show you command K Superhuman, command

404
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: that thing that I just mentioned, so that you now

405
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: have the tools to continue to teach yourself when the

406
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 1: call is over.

407
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: I imagine just to give listeners a sense of how

408
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: many users you've got, because some people might be listening

409
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 2: and going, well, I've never heard of Superhuman, So that's

410
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 2: fine when you've only got a handful of users, but

411
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: how many users are you up to now?

412
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: Well, I can't share the user number directly because we

413
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: are a venture backed company, but in the context of onboarding,

414
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: I can share that we've done tens of thousands of

415
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: onboardings like this. Every single one of them was one

416
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: to one, every single one of them was a VIP

417
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: white glove experience, and we just really care about that.

418
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: It's interesting because most founders. Most CEOs I've spoken to

419
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: about this thought that it would be impossible, that we

420
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't figure out a way to make this scale unit economically,

421
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: that at some point it just would all fall over

422
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: and break. But I think we've been able to scale

423
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: this far past the point where most people thought we'd

424
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: have to stop.

425
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 3: I think it's amazing.

426
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: And I mean, for look, for any listeners that do

427
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: put your name on the waiting list for Superhuman, I'm

428
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: going to assume that there's still a long waiting list,

429
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: am I am I right in saying.

430
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: That there is. There's over three hundred and fifty thousand

431
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: people on the wait list. But for members of the community,

432
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 1: folks listening to this, what I would say is if

433
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: when you sign up, put the How I Work podcast

434
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: in how did you find out about Superhuman, and we'll

435
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: be able to bounce everyone in the community right to

436
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: the top of the queue.

437
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing, That's that's very good news for listeners. Now,

438
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: on the topic of batching, which we touched on before,

439
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 2: I've also I heard that you batch your meetings. Can

440
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 2: you talk about what that looks like and how exactly

441
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: that looks in a typical week for you I do.

442
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: I not only batch meetings. Superhuman actually runs on what

443
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: I call a staggered calendar. Most people run very inefficient

444
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 1: calendars that one on ones are randomly dispersed throughout the week.

445
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: Team meetings happen whenever anybody happens to be free, and

446
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: there's relatively little time to focus and to do deep work.

447
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: So here's how staggering works. If you run a team,

448
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: do your team meeting on Wednesdays and stack all of

449
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: your one on ones on Tuesdays. If your reports run teams,

450
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: ask them to do the same, but a day earlier,

451
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: so they run their team meetings on Tuesdays and they

452
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: stack all their one on ones on Mondays. And if

453
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: your organization is big enough, you can push everything down

454
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: one day if you have another level of management. Now,

455
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: this staggering has a number of benefits. Number One, information

456
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: moves through the company very quickly and very efficiently. Problems

457
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: are discussed one on one on Monday in specific departments

458
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: with individual contributors on Tuesday, and if necessary, they can

459
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: be resolved by leadership on Wednesday. It takes at most

460
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: two days for information to travel that way. Number two,

461
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: what I found is problems are usually solved along the way.

462
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: For example, in your Wednesday leadership team meeting, you might hear, oh,

463
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: this problem came upon Monday. We discussed it as a

464
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: department on Tuesday, and here's the solution we'd like to

465
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: go with. And what you might find yourself doing is saying, well,

466
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: that sounds good, great, thank you for letting me know.

467
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: And number three, it leaves Monday, much of Wednesday, and

468
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: all of Thursday and Friday free to do deep work,

469
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: which is the stuff that only you can do and

470
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 1: which requires your full concentration.

471
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: Do you have any rituals around deep work, around getting

472
00:25:59,000 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: into flow?

473
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 3: What does that look like for you?

474
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: I would say that my best and possibly most unorthodox

475
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: ritual is the switch log. And I came to the

476
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: switch log by asking the question do you know how

477
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: you spend your time? Now? Most people think they know,

478
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: but they don't really. Yes, you have a calendar, but

479
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: calendars are poor reflections of reality. Urgent tasks require our attention,

480
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 1: important work, they not even be on our calendars. And

481
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: as the saying goes, you change what you measure. So

482
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: my question morphed from do you know how you spend

483
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: your time to a more simple one, which is how

484
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: do we measure time? And this is the switchlog. It's

485
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: a surprisingly simple and super effective Tech League Number one

486
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: log when you start a task, number two log when

487
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: you switch a task, and number three log when you

488
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: take a break. And here's the crazy part after that,

489
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: do whatever you want, and I really do mean it.

490
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: Turn up for your meetings, obviously, but otherwise follow your

491
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: intuition and do what seems important. So I then start

492
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: to log my time at Slack. Every time I start

493
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: a task or change a task, I will send a

494
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: little message to a channel in Slack. You can do

495
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: this with a private channel, or you can send it

496
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 1: to another person to have them help you analyze it

497
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: later if you want to do that. And they're simple

498
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: things like and that. They typically start with a TS,

499
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: which in my parlance stands for tasks, which so it

500
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: will be something like ts colon calendar design review if

501
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm doing some product work, or ts colon email if

502
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing email, or ts cole on Twitter if I'm

503
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: doing community work on Twitter, or ts colon arr goal

504
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: if I'm doing revenue management goal setting. Now you might

505
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: think this sounds very error prone. What happens if you

506
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: do a different task, or you've get to log a task,

507
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: or you switch. Very easy. If I log one task

508
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: and I instead do another, it's usually obvious to me

509
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: about five or ten minutes in that I'm doing a

510
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: different thing to the thing I said it was going

511
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: to be doing. That's very easy. I just go back

512
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: to Slack and I edit the message. If I forget

513
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: to log a task, that's also okay too. I just

514
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: log it when I notice it, with the time built

515
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: into the message. So instead of saying ts colon meditation,

516
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: I might say five point thirty colon meditation because I

517
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: started it at five thirty. And sometimes I start one

518
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: to ask and this is the final issue that most

519
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: people have, switch to another for five minutes and then

520
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: switch back, and that's okay. I'm logging these things or

521
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: almost like a lawyer, if you will, in increments of minutes.

522
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: It's actually even more granular than what a lawyer would do.

523
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: And whatever happens, the key thing is, do not worry

524
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: about updating your calendar. You can analyze all of this data.

525
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 3: Post hoc, and so what does that analysis look like?

526
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: And just to be clearly, are you doing the log

527
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: every single day or are you just doing it for

528
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: periods of time to get greater self awareness and change

529
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: your behavior.

530
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: Accordingly, I do personally do the log every single day

531
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: because I'm very lucky, very fortunate to work with a

532
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: really amazing EA who can help me analyze it on

533
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: a weekly basis. If you don't have that resource, this

534
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: is something that you might want to do perhaps twice

535
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: a year, once in January, once again at the halfway

536
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: point of the year. The analysis itself is relatively simple.

537
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: You take all of your tasks, you then categorize them.

538
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: So my categories include product design, recruiting, PR management, leadership, email,

539
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: and meditation. And then you just chart the time spent

540
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: in each category. And I'm thinking of an example of

541
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: a week I had earlier this year where I actually

542
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: only spent four percent If I recall correctly of my

543
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,479
Speaker 1: time on recruiting and are whopping twenty two percent on

544
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: public relations work, you can then start to compare this

545
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: with rules of thumb and your ideal week. For example,

546
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: I know that as the CEO of a Series B

547
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: venture backed company, I should be spending roughly thirty percent

548
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: of my time on recruiting my own personal effort on

549
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: doing pr work is probably less important than hiring someone

550
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: who can do that better than I could, And so

551
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: I immediately found an actionable insight after the week where that

552
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: was the case.

553
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: I love that example. That's fantastic.

554
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: I'll occasionally have guests on the show that do track

555
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: their time. I don't think I've met anyone that does

556
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: it every day, but hearing you talk about it is

557
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: inspiring me to actually go through a bit of a

558
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: time treking phase. Now I want to come back to

559
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: meetings because I know that you've got a specific process

560
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: that you use to run meetings at Superhuman. Can you

561
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: describe what that is?

562
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Most teams run very inefficient meetings where certain is

563
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: shoes are discussed to the exclusion of others, and this

564
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: is doubly dangerous. Not only do you spend too much

565
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: time talking about these issues, other important problems become very

566
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: starved of attention and can often go for weeks at

567
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: a time without anyone actually paying attention to them. So

568
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: we use the decision making process outlined in a really

569
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: great book. I believe this is available for free online.

570
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: It's called The Great CEO Within by Matt Mercury. He's

571
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: a well known CEO and executive coach here in Silicon Valley.

572
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: Now the process has three key ingredients that make it

573
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: so effective. We've also tweaked it a bit to make

574
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: it our own, so I will describe our version of it.

575
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: Number one, if somebody wants to bring something up in

576
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: the team meeting, they must write it down beforehand and

577
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: share it with the team by six pm on the

578
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: day before. And the idea is we should avoid talking

579
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: about things that were not written down, as we can

580
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 1: read much faster than we can speak. And if you're

581
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: spending your team meeting just communicating your idea or then

582
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: that's obviously inefficient because you could have written it down

583
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: and folks could have read it beforehand. Number two, if

584
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: somebody wants to speak about something in the team meeting,

585
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: they must have read and commented on the documents beforehand.

586
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: Why this is a pure issue of respect. We should

587
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: avoid commenting on things where we did not invest the

588
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: time to get up to speed, as it needlessly wastes

589
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: the time of those who did. So. It's not enough

590
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: for someone just to write a document saying, hey, this

591
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: is the thing that I think we should do. This

592
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: is the problem. This is the solution, and only half

593
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: the team read it. If that's the case, and sometimes

594
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: it is the case because certain weeks are busy in others,

595
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: then the half of the team that didn't read it

596
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: are not party to that decision. They're not party to

597
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: that discussion. This keeps things moving very quickly. Number three.

598
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: If something is discussed in the team meeting is discussed

599
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: for at most five minutes, and if consensus is not

600
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: reached within five minutes, then the conversation stops and the

601
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: decision maker is identified, and we use the Jeff Bezos

602
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: rule of thumb to identify the decision maker fairly simple.

603
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: For reversible decisions, the decision maker is anyone other than myself.

604
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: You shouldn't have the CEO making reversible decisions. For non

605
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 1: reversible decisions, then the decision maker should be me and

606
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,239
Speaker 1: we use a frameworker responsibility matrix. We happen to use

607
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: Bane and Koe's rapid framework to assign any roles in

608
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: the decision making process. And after the meeting, the decision

609
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: maker will gather all the required information, and this part's key.

610
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: They make the decision before the next team meeting, and

611
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: this avoids you know, that phenomenon of just kicking the

612
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: can down the road for especially hard decisions and not

613
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: actually making them. And we found that by doing all

614
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: of these everyone is always up to speed. Each item

615
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: takes at most five minutes, and in one hour you

616
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: can get through ten items with tons of room for

617
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: fun and banter along the way.

618
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 2: I love that approach and just how well thought through

619
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: it is. Can I ask how meetings external meetings work

620
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: for you, because I imagine that inefficiencies would drive you crazy.

621
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: But you know, people that are not within the organization

622
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: probably have different approaches to meetings and how they like

623
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: them to run. Do you bring that approach to external

624
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 2: meetings that you're having or are you kind of happy

625
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: to be more of a chameleon? I guess in that sense.

626
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: Not really, because I think external and internal meetings have

627
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: very different purposes. So I am talking specifically about a

628
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: team meeting where you're trying to take a set of

629
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: high quality decisions as efficiently and as effectively as possible.

630
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: I don't think that has ever been the case for

631
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: me for an external meeting. It's very very rare. Journal

632
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: meetings are some kind of sales or emotional process. It's

633
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: actually the entirely opposite goal. You're not trying to get

634
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: through a high number of decisions in a very high

635
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: quality fashion. You're trying to be persuasive or to create

636
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: some kind of outcome, like this person wants to work

637
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: for my company, or they want to invest in my company,

638
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: or we're going to have this partnership, or we're going

639
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: to do this initiative together. So that's a wholly separate

640
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: process where and we can talk about this if you like,

641
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: but it's much more about understanding the other person, what

642
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: their goals are, what the motivation is. It's about active listening,

643
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: and by that I mean, you know, not saying ahar

644
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: all the time, but really truly actively listening, responding to

645
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: the points that are made, and just progressively working towards

646
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: your goal.

647
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I would like to delve into the topic

648
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: of persuasion. I read when I was researching for this

649
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: interview that Jonathan Siegel was very influentially in teaching you

650
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: about how to create great pitches. And I imagine with

651
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: your background, you've done a lot of pitching. So what

652
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: is now your approach to pitching ideas and even more broadly,

653
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: trying to persuade someone as to the merit of what

654
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: it is that you're doing or what you're selling, so

655
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: to speak.

656
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: Here's the thing about Jonathan Siegel. And there was one

657
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 1: other person very similar to Jonathan who I knew a

658
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: decade earlier, Seamus Hashier. He was a friend back from university.

659
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: They taught me so much of what I know about

660
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: pitching today. The thing that sets them apart from others

661
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: is they are incredibly fast talkers, they're incredibly fast thinkers,

662
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: and they're also supremely confident. Now this does not mean

663
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: that you should talk incredibly quickly or be supremely confident.

664
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: What it means is you can lean into that skill

665
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: set or develop that skill set if you don't have

666
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: those things today, and by hearing them pitch countless times

667
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: would shameless. I was in an entrepreneurship club, so I

668
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: heard him pitch gosh, I don't know, hundreds of different

669
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: business ideas. And with Jonathan Siegel, he was a mentor

670
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: an advisor to my last company. I had him pitch

671
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: my own company to me, way better than I was

672
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: pitching it to other people. I began to see that

673
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: it was practice and confidence. Now in order to make

674
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: this actionable. What I have is a very simple three

675
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: step process that I think you can apply to any pitch.

676
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't even have to be a venture pitch. Number one,

677
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: what is the problem that you're trying to solve and

678
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: convey not just what the problem is, but also how

679
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: painful it is, and really make it a motive, Really

680
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: help the audience connect with that pain and how many

681
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: people feel that pain? Number two, what is the solution

682
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: that you have in mind? What is the solution that

683
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: you've built if it already exists? And number three, and

684
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: this really only applies if you're raising venture investment, how

685
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: does this become a billion dollar opportunity. I'm also a

686
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: very active angel investor, and this third point is actually

687
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: where most founders fall short. Many times I end up

688
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: passing on great founders with great businesses because I was

689
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: not able to get to conviction that the business could

690
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: support a huge I a multi billion dollar outcome.

691
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: That's a good process, And yeah, I feel like where

692
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: I think where a lot of great pictures fall down

693
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: is that the lead with the idea or they won't

694
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: build up enough pain in the problem that people are experiencing,

695
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: which I think is a really valuable thing to remember.

696
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 2: Now you're immersed in the world of technology and software,

697
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 2: I'm curious, aside from Superhuman, what are your favorite apps

698
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: or pieces of software for being more productive and organized

699
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: and sailing through the day more easily and effectively.

700
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, of course my favorite is Superhuman. I wouldn't

701
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: be able to do my job with outis. Apart from that,

702
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: I use Trello for my work tasks. This is after

703
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: trying every single task management app that exists, and I

704
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: try every new on when it comes out. I still

705
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: find as old school as it is that Trello is

706
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: a good balance between simplicity. It doesn't have a complex

707
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: mental model or a complex information hierarchy, and collaboration. I

708
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: can share my personal board with my EA, I can

709
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: interact on boards of other people in the company who

710
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: also use Trillo, other groups in the company, and it

711
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: has just the right level of customizability for my needs. Now.

712
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: I know that some people will need more complex project

713
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: management solutions. They might use it to doist or an asana,

714
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: But for me, Trello is great for my work tasks.

715
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: I do try and keep my personal errands and my

716
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: administration out of Trello. I find that it's just helpful

717
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: to not be distracted, for example, about paying your taxes

718
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 1: when in the middle of the workday. So I actually

719
00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: use Apple reminders for personal errands and for administration. For example,

720
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: this morning, I got my yearly reminder to pay my

721
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: exorbitant San Francisco property tax, so I should get on

722
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: that before it starts accruing interest. Why do I use

723
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: Apple reminders, Well, I can't really see myself abandoning the

724
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: Apple ecosystem in the next few years. I was a

725
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: die hard Windows fanboy growing up, switched over to Apple

726
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: about ten years ago. Haven't looked back since. I think

727
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: I'll be with the Apple ecosystem for the next ten years.

728
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: And I want my long term reminders, things like I

729
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: need to get my car smog checked three years from now,

730
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: or I need to pay my property tax November every

731
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: single year. I want those reminders to be in the

732
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: operating system itself, and not in a tool like Trello,

733
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: where if something good enough came along that was different

734
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: to Trello, I would happily jump ship. And so for

735
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: me that being in the operating system is very important.

736
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,959
Speaker 1: So between superhuman Trello and Apple re mind I sail

737
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: through my day significantly faster than otherwise.

738
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 2: Now, you mentioned that you will try new software where

739
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: it comes out, and you'll compare that to what you're

740
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: currently using. What is your approach to trying new software?

741
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: Because I feel like this is something that a lot

742
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: of people do but maybe don't do it as well

743
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: as they could.

744
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 3: So what does that look like for you?

745
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: I think it really depends on what your goals trying

746
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: the new software are. So I am, actually this may

747
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: come as a surprise. Not an early adopter. I don't

748
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: try things simply because they're new, you know. I'm not

749
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: the kind of person that, for example, might hang out

750
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: in product hunts on a daily basis and sort of

751
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: scan through and pick out the new things. If you

752
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: are an early adopt, if you are excited about trying

753
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: all the new stuff, then of course communities like product

754
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: hunts and specific subreddits will be a great place to

755
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: go and do discovery. For these tools, I tend to

756
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: rely on social network and social signal. I'm very active

757
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: on Twitter. By the way, my dms are open. If

758
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: listeners want to get in touch, feel free to send

759
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: me a DM, and good tools will once they've maintained

760
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: or rather obtained a little bit of social momentum, they'll

761
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: become very clear on Twitter. And that's usually a triggering

762
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: point for me. If that doesn't trigger me, then sometime

763
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: after that someone will almost certainly tell me, Hey, you

764
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: have to try this thing out. It's really cool. I

765
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 1: think you'll love it, And that for me is usually

766
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: the trigger when I give a new tool.

767
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: A go on Twitter.

768
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 2: Are there specific people that you follow that you find

769
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: really great at highlighting new things that you might want

770
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: to be giving a go to.

771
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: So, like I mentioned, I'm actually a partner in a

772
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: small angel fund. So my partner in this is Todd Goldberg.

773
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: I would highly recommend that folks follow myself and him.

774
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: Todd runs the fund day to day. I obviously run

775
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: superhuman day to day. I put an hour or two

776
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: a week into the fund, helping us assas companies and

777
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: working with the founders that we've invested in. And I

778
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: find that Todd has this incredible nose for finding really

779
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: amazing experiences very early. And we are actually working on

780
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: We're not quite sure the format it will take right now.

781
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: We're thinking maybe we'll go all school with this. I

782
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: and email list we're working on an email list for

783
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: product curation, so stay tuned. I would say, watch this space,

784
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: follow myself and Todd on Twitter, and we'll be going

785
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: live with that project over the course of the next

786
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: quarter or so.

787
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: Amazing. I'm very excited about that.

788
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: And are there any new or soon to be released

789
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: apps that you are feeling excited about? Obviously, with the

790
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 2: caveat that you're not a self described earlier adopter.

791
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. My favorite new tool is descript or descript

792
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: not entirely sure how you say it. It's an incredible

793
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: piece of audio and video editing software from Andrew Mason,

794
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: who folks may remember as the founder of group on Now.

795
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: The amazing thing about descript is that it works like

796
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: a doc. So you record your podcast or your video

797
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: and then imagine instantly seeing a Google doc like transcription

798
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: of what was said, and like in the Google Top,

799
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: you can select a piece of text, you can comments,

800
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: you can collaborate super easily with anyone else on your team.

801
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: But here's where it gets mind blowing. You can also

802
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: select that same piece of text, hit delete and it

803
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: will magically remove that piece of audio or video. You

804
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: can automatically remove all filler words like and R. You

805
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: can even type in what you wish you would have

806
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: said and it will generate the audio in your voice

807
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: as if you would have said it. And they call

808
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: that last feature overdub. So if you produce audio or video,

809
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: I highly recommend checking the script out. It's totally game changing.

810
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I couldn't agree more. Played around with it a bit,

811
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: and it's super fun.

812
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: Now.

813
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: One thing, I found this great quote about you on LinkedIn.

814
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: I think it was in your LinkedIn profile at one

815
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 2: of the recommendations that you've got, and this person said,

816
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: Rahool could design products with his eyes closed and the

817
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: result would still be more desirable, forward looking, and dramatic

818
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 2: than anything from a typical product person. And I read

819
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: that and I mean that completely aligns with my experience

820
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 2: of Superhuman. But what is it that you do differently

821
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 2: in how you approach the work that you do that makes.

822
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 3: You different from a typical product person.

823
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: Superhuman? Rebuild software like it as a game. Now, most

824
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 1: software companies worry about what users want or what users need,

825
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: But if you think about it, nobody needs a game

826
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: to exist. There are no requirements. When you make a game,

827
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: you don't worry about what users want or what they need. Instead,

828
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: you obsess over how they feel. Because when your product

829
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: is a game, people don't just use it. They play it,

830
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: they find it fun, they tell their friends, they even

831
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: fall in love with it. And it turns out that

832
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: game design is an altogether different kind of product development.

833
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: I was professionally a game designer, and I've been actually

834
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: designing games since I was a little kid. And I

835
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: think that is the thing that separates my approach as

836
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: a product person and Superhumans approach as a company to

837
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 1: building software.

838
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: That's fascinating.

839
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: And you know, I think about listeners who are not

840
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: designing software for a living but are doing other things,

841
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: and I just think, you know, look, that's that's a

842
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: great philosophy for whatever it is, like, whatever experiences you

843
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 2: are creating in the line of work that you do. Look,

844
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 2: my final question for you, and you've kindly suggested that

845
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: people can send you a DM on Twitter, like, what

846
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: is the best way for people to find out more

847
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 2: about you, interact with you in some way and use

848
00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: Superhuman and maybe.

849
00:46:59,480 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 3: Will have it.

850
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 2: Just that's a reminder of what people should put in

851
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: where they should email their request to join the waiting list.

852
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: How do they do that and what they need to

853
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: put in the subject line to jump that very long

854
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: waiting list.

855
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: For sure. So I love interacting with folks in the community.

856
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: It brings me great joy. I'm very very easy to

857
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: get a hold of. You can either email me Rajol

858
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: that's my first name, r Ahul at superhuman dot com,

859
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: or send me a Twitter direct message. My dms are

860
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: open for folks who are interested in getting access to Superhuman.

861
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,959
Speaker 1: I would obviously recommend doing that, especially if your job

862
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: revolves around email. If you're the kind of person who's

863
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: in email for hours a day, as many of us are,

864
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: this is something that can just help move help you

865
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: move through your inbox so much faster, especially if you've

866
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: had aspirations of hitting inbox zero. Just sign up and

867
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: in the section where it says how did you hear

868
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: about Superhuman? Enter the How I Work podcast. We do

869
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: have a waiting list of north three hundred and fifty

870
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: thousand people, but if you enter this podcast into that box,

871
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: we will jump you to the front of the line

872
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,399
Speaker 1: and get onboarding you as rapidly as we can.

873
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome, and listeners, just do it. Superhuman. It is

874
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: just bloody awesome, Rul.

875
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 2: It's just been such a joy chatting to you and

876
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 2: hearing how you work and how you think.

877
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: You know really deeply and practically about all these things.

878
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 3: So thank you so much for your time.

879
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: Thank you remember hello there.

880
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 3: That is it for today's show.

881
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed my chat with Rahul as much

882
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: as I loved.

883
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 3: Doing this interview.

884
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 2: And if you know someone that you think could benefit

885
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: from what Rhul had to say, why not share this

886
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 2: episode with them? Just simply go into your podcast app

887
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: and click the little share icon, which is generally a

888
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: little box with an arrow pointing upwards. I believe, and

889
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: and you can share that with someone else that you

890
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 2: think could benefit. And if you are not a Superhuman user, gosh,

891
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: I wish I had shares in the company, but I

892
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 2: don't take Rhul up on his office. So go to

893
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: superhuman dot com, put your name on the waiting list

894
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: mention the How I Work podcast and you will bypass

895
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 2: those three hundred and fifty thousand people that are on

896
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: the waiting list for Superhuman. I guarantee you you will

897
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: love it. Okay, that is it for today's show. I

898
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: will see you next time.