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Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr

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Speaker 1: the Order, Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before

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Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I

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Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,

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Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming

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Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing

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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for

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Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.

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Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

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Speaker 4: for millennials who want to sort out their career. Today

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Speaker 4: is a little bit of a different episode. I'm joined

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Speaker 4: by Misress Gricci. Hello, but i also have the team

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Speaker 4: from my millennial money or should I say more specifically,

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Speaker 4: the sort your Career team out, Shelley Johnson and unfortunately Glenn.

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Speaker 5: Jack Yes, welcome Glenn, Hey, thanks for having us.

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited to have you, Shelley, Glenn, I'm flattered

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Speaker 4: that you made the time.

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Speaker 2: I'm not the career expert. I'm just for you put

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Speaker 2: your name on the book.

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Speaker 5: Well, how much as a percentage of the book, how

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Speaker 5: much do you reckon you wrote of it?

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Speaker 2: Forty five?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, all right, Joe, did you let him put

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Speaker 4: his name on forty five percent of your own work?

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Speaker 5: Well? Yes? And also there was this one night we

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Speaker 5: were writing the book and Glenn was in there and

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Speaker 5: I was in It would have been about eleven thirty

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Speaker 5: at night, we're writing away. He's writing his section on

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Speaker 5: mindset and I'm going through editing out.

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Speaker 6: His yea like live Google, backspace.

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Speaker 2: Your own chapters before you come and fix.

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Speaker 4: My Yes, I don't know about fixed completely rewrite is it?

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Speaker 2: Basically? So I'm just here for the hangs.

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Speaker 4: Well, Shelle is here to celebrate the launch, which is

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Speaker 4: kind of recent but like it's been around a little while.

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Speaker 4: Your book sought your career out, which I am so

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Speaker 4: excited about. I'm also really devastated. I actually called Maddie

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Speaker 4: on the way here and was like, Hey, I forgot

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Speaker 4: my book? Can you find another one? She's like, I

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Speaker 4: do not have time to go and get it. So

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Speaker 4: I couldn't even get it signed because do you know

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Speaker 4: who signed my book?

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Speaker 5: Glenn.

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Speaker 4: I don't want Glenn's signature in my book. Now I've

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Speaker 4: worked out that it was all your work. Shelley.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know what, I'll send you a coffee that

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Speaker 5: just has my name on it.

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Speaker 4: I'll dispose of the other one appropriately.

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Speaker 6: I love that.

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Speaker 4: But we're here because our community is obsessed with career

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Speaker 4: questions at the moment, and I feel like in this

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Speaker 4: current environment, obviously careers are really hard. People are asking

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Speaker 4: for pay rise, we're not getting them. We're feeling like

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Speaker 4: our employer might be taking the mickey a little bit

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Speaker 4: when it comes to work life balance. There are just

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Speaker 4: so many career questions that She's on. The money has

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Speaker 4: kind of pivoted a little bit, and we are addressing

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Speaker 4: a lot of them. But who better to get than

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Speaker 4: you shall to talk about career and answer a whole

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Speaker 4: heap of questions from our community. But first things first,

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Speaker 4: why do we trust you when it comes to career advice?

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Speaker 4: Like what if you've got a good career or something?

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Speaker 5: That is a really good question. I don't think anyone's

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Speaker 5: answering that question before, So why do you trust me?

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Speaker 5: I've got two answers to this. The first answer is

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Speaker 5: I've worke in HR for the last ten years, so

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Speaker 5: I've seen the employer's side, and I think for many

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Speaker 5: people when we're talking about careers, we don't understand what

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Speaker 5: employers are looking for or the things that can make

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Speaker 5: us stand out for an employer in order to get

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Speaker 5: a promotion, to get a pay rise, to maybe change careers.

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Speaker 5: So one of my things is taking all those secrets

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Speaker 5: that are in HR and sharing them love. And the

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Speaker 5: second thing that or may not make me credible is that.

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Speaker 4: He wrote a book. Well, I wrote a book that

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Speaker 4: makes you legit. I wrote like three of them, and

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Speaker 4: now people are like, wow, she's an author, and that's

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Speaker 4: what I hang my hat on. And you absolutely should. No,

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Speaker 4: it makes no sense, but yeah, come up with something

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Speaker 4: better than the book.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, what was Well, I had a major career crisis.

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Speaker 5: So I went through a career crisis. Right when Glenn

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Speaker 5: called and said, hey, how are you? I was on

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Speaker 5: the streets of Sydney. He calls me up, or I

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Speaker 5: might have called you. I can't remember the context, but anyway,

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Speaker 5: in Sydney he calls me and I said, hey, I've

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Speaker 5: just quit my job. He's like, oh, right, what are

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Speaker 5: you going to do now, and I'm.

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Speaker 4: Like, that's very Glenn. Oh right, that's nice.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, not much emphathiicy right now, Glenn. And I was like,

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Speaker 5: I don't have anything planned, like I've got no other

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Speaker 5: job to go to. But I just knew I wasn't

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Speaker 5: in the stone space and I had to finish what

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Speaker 5: I was doing and move out of that fairly quickly,

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Speaker 5: and so I didn't have another job to go to.

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Speaker 6: I was obviously quite stress It's a stressful.

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Speaker 5: Position to be in. And Glenn go, you know what

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Speaker 5: I reckon, we should do go on the boat that

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Speaker 5: and we should write a careers book. And I was like,

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Speaker 5: I can't write a career's book right now, like I'm unemployed.

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Speaker 4: Like you've got a heap of time to write about it.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's his logic. I was like, I can't, like

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Speaker 5: I'm having my own career crisis. But I think what

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Speaker 5: happened in that moment was, well, we got the book deal.

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Speaker 5: Wiley came through and said let's do it, and we're like, okay, well,

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Speaker 5: this is the right time to write it because you're

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Speaker 5: going through the stuff that people need to hear about

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Speaker 5: in their career.

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Speaker 4: Raw and it's real and if you're going.

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Speaker 5: Through a career crisis right now, maybe you've been made redundant,

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Speaker 5: maybe you're having a tough time with toxic culture. Those

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Speaker 5: things can be really painful. And for me, going through

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Speaker 5: that process and then writing the book helped me to

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Speaker 5: realize and have empathy for where people are at and

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Speaker 5: how to get out of those moments and move forward

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Speaker 5: and build a career that you love, which has been

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Speaker 5: the case for me. And so I know that lots

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Speaker 5: of people reading the book are having the same experience.

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Speaker 6: I love that.

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Speaker 4: I feel like, for once in his life, Glen was

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Speaker 4: correct and that was really good idea.

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Speaker 5: You are getting roasted.

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Speaker 4: That's why we're here.

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Speaker 2: They call me punchy because I'm a punching back.

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Speaker 4: Bring good jokes.

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Speaker 5: What did you ring?

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Speaker 4: I feel like I always end up in trouble if

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Speaker 4: I roasted Glenn, So just yeah, I always do. I

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Speaker 4: get so always like, oh, Victoria is so mean to Glenn.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, do you realize that this banter that you're

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Speaker 4: hearing it.

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Speaker 1: Offline?

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Speaker 4: And both ways? Like stop bullying me? How about you

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Speaker 4: start coming for Glenn? And how nasty pasty he is

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Speaker 4: to me? Sometimes I feel like this is our friendship

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Speaker 4: showing I do actually adore Glenn. I think he is great.

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Speaker 4: We won't go too much into it because he already

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Speaker 4: has a big enough ego.

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Speaker 6: Do you think it's like.

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Speaker 5: A brother sister relationship dad.

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Speaker 2: Mom and dad, mom and dad brother in front of

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Speaker 2: the kids.

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Speaker 4: We definitely do.

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Speaker 2: We should answer some questions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's answer some questions, because earlier this week, Jess

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Speaker 4: jumped into our Facebook group and said, Hey, we've got

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Speaker 4: some really exciting guests coming into the studio to talk

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Speaker 4: all about Korea. So we're kind of like clickbaiting it

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Speaker 4: because we really wanted this to go well. But what

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Speaker 4: we got from that are some killer questions. Jess, what

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Speaker 4: is the first question that you want Shell and maybe

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Speaker 4: Glenn to address?

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Speaker 6: First? One I have comes from Imagen and it says

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Speaker 6: I hear a lot about looking at what your role

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Speaker 6: in another company pays as a technique for pain negotiations.

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Speaker 6: I've looked on seek and on LinkedIn, but most roles

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Speaker 6: don't disclose the salary. Are there websites where I can

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Speaker 6: find this kind of information?

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Speaker 4: Great question, Jo said?

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Speaker 6: I replied to that, I was like, that's a really

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Speaker 6: good question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's cut and base that one as well.

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Speaker 5: Get it. So there's a few things you can do.

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Speaker 5: And yes, there are ways that you can get that

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Speaker 5: salary data. It's a really helpful thing to understand where

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Speaker 5: your current pay is in relation to roles externally. So

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Speaker 5: I think this is a good thing for most of

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Speaker 5: us to get an understanding of. So Hayes have some

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Speaker 5: great salary data across a range of industries that's public accessible,

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Speaker 5: so you download.

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Speaker 4: About them all the time.

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Speaker 5: How good are they get?

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Speaker 4: They actually slid into my DMS the other week. Sorry,

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Speaker 4: Hayes if you're listening to this, I haven't replied because

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Speaker 4: I have ADHD and I forgot.

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Speaker 5: You know, Hayes would be great to sponsor the podcast,

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Speaker 5: right all my millennial career.

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Speaker 4: All right, I'll slide back into their dms, so let

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Speaker 4: them know. You guys are key.

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Speaker 6: I see one podcast and I raise you three.

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Speaker 5: So I would be getting access to that. The other

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Speaker 5: thing you can do is jump on to a range

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Speaker 5: of salary Survey does so Glassdoor pay Scale, and one

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Speaker 5: of the things I encourage anyone to do is get

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Speaker 5: a range of sources. So don't just go for one

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Speaker 5: salary data set. Get a couple, and then you get

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Speaker 5: to kind of get a sense of what does the

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Speaker 5: market look like, what might be the high end of

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Speaker 5: the market rate, and what might be the middle point

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Speaker 5: and the low point, And then you get a full

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Speaker 5: sense of what the salary range is and you can

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Speaker 5: use that in your pay discussions. Now, there's a couple

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Speaker 5: of things you need to consider when you're talking about

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Speaker 5: pay with your employer, and one of them is, Okay,

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Speaker 5: what's happening externally with the salary market, but what is

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Speaker 5: my role and how does my role compare to those

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Speaker 5: roles externally as well? Because it's not a cookie cutter exercise, No.

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Speaker 4: It's so important. Actually, I love what you said about

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Speaker 4: getting a few examples because I'm the queen of one

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Speaker 4: and done. Like, I'll go online and I'll find one answer,

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Speaker 4: and I'll be like tick. And that could shoot me

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Speaker 4: in the foot for two reasons. One, it could be

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Speaker 4: severely undervaluing me, but it also could give me an

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Speaker 4: unrealistic expectation of what that role pays. So I think

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Speaker 4: that getting a few is really important and actually puts you,

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Speaker 4: I guess, back in the control seat. But like, for example,

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Speaker 4: for your second part of that answer, you said, it's

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Speaker 4: really important to understand the role. How many executive assistants

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Speaker 4: are there. They all have different job responsibilities. Like some

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Speaker 4: people might be an EA and it's much simpler. Some

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Speaker 4: people might be an EA and it's an exec and

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Speaker 4: you're managing a plothought of executives and it's so hands

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Speaker 4: on that it's crazy. So I think it's important to

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Speaker 4: look into the job description and you really understand it.

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Speaker 4: Because how many times do you go, oh, I own

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Speaker 4: you know eighty K, my friend who's an EA that's

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Speaker 4: the same job title earns one fifty, what the hell like?

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Speaker 4: And then you feel like you're being disadvantage and that

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Speaker 4: you're not being valued, when in reality, your role could

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Speaker 4: be valued at exactly what you're getting paid.

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Speaker 5: The other thing to consider in that is what's the

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Speaker 5: annual revenue of the business you're in, Because you might

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Speaker 5: be an EA in a small business that's turning over

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Speaker 5: ten million dollars a year and your salary might be

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Speaker 5: you know, seventy five K. But if you're an EA

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Speaker 5: in a five hundred million dollar organization, and it's much

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Speaker 5: more complex because of the scale, because of the nature

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Speaker 5: of the business, your salary might be at that higher end,

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Speaker 5: and so there's a few different things we need to

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Speaker 5: weigh up, and that's why I love getting multiple data

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Speaker 5: sources for this type of thing. The other thing that

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Speaker 5: I love and I would always recommend people do when

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Speaker 5: they're having pay negotiations, come in and say to your boss, So, Vitoria,

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Speaker 5: let's say you're my.

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Speaker 4: Boss, I'd be a terrible boss for you, but yes.

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Speaker 6: I'm lucky for anybody.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, imagine I might be a terrible employee. So it

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Speaker 5: goes both ways. So I would come in and say, hey,

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Speaker 5: we'd love to talk to you about a pay increase.

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Speaker 5: I'll give you one, thank you, one hundred grand increase please, Okay,

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Speaker 5: no worries.

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Speaker 4: I feel awkward and want to get out of this situation,

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Speaker 4: like get me up.

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Speaker 5: So I would come in with a range and say

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Speaker 5: i'd be considering between seventy and seventy five is the

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Speaker 5: increase that I'm kind of looking for. If you're currently

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Speaker 5: on sixty five, you want to move up to seventy,

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Speaker 5: So give them a range to work with rather than

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Speaker 5: a set number. But I think when we go in

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Speaker 5: with a number in mind, it's quite fixed, and that

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Speaker 5: means that employer feels kind of cornered into well, I

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Speaker 5: only have this one figure to work with. But if

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Speaker 5: you go in with a salary range, that can really

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Speaker 5: help them to feel like you're more open. If the

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Speaker 5: business doesn't have the financial capacity to meet the higher

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Speaker 5: end that you're after, well you can still get maybe

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Speaker 5: that lower end. They're able to make that work.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's really good advice. So I feel like

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Speaker 4: the range is something that a lot of people don't

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Speaker 4: consider because you did all that research right, and I

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Speaker 4: deep dived into what I wanted and how I wanted it.

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Speaker 4: I am set on seventy five. But going with the

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Speaker 4: range kind of puts you back in the control seats,

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Speaker 4: saying my role is actually between this which one are

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Speaker 4: you going to choose? And I think that that's power

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Speaker 4: move shell.

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Speaker 7: Can you talk to positioning because you know, if I'm

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Speaker 7: wearing an employer hat.

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Speaker 4: Which you do because you employer so many employer for.

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Speaker 7: People, Yeah, it's a nice hat. I think it's just

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Speaker 7: so important that you know. It's human nature. No one

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Speaker 7: likes to get backed against the wall. We don't like

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Speaker 7: showdowns or shakedowns or whatever. Talk to us about the

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Speaker 7: approach if image and did want to do some research

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Speaker 7: and then chat with the employer. How does she position

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Speaker 7: that in a non threatening you know, give me this

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Speaker 7: or I'm going not none of that stuff, but like.

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Speaker 5: A amazing Well you actually speak to this so well

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Speaker 5: in the book because you talk.

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Speaker 4: About in his two percent contribution.

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Speaker 5: It's amazing. The part on pay negotiations is so solid.

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Speaker 5: There's a couple of things. You need to give your

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Speaker 5: boss lead time. So an employer has so many things

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Speaker 5: going on in their head that they have budgets that

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Speaker 5: are set sometimes a year in advance, So we need

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Speaker 5: to consider it from their perspective. So, if Glenn, you're

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Speaker 5: my boss, sorry again, I would be meeting with you

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Speaker 5: in my regular one on one. Let's say we catch

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Speaker 5: up monthly for a regular one on one. I would

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Speaker 5: say to you in that next one on one, Hey, Glenn,

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Speaker 5: I've just been thinking about my role. I'd love to

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Speaker 5: discuss my performance and maybe looking at a pay review.

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Speaker 5: Could we schedule that in and our next one on one.

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Speaker 5: So I'm giving you a long lead.

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Speaker 4: Time because I'm out.

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Speaker 5: And so that means that you then have a heads

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Speaker 5: up of what I want to talk about. And it's

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Speaker 5: not just pay it's also your performance, because if I'm

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Speaker 5: just doing the bare minimum of my job, really I

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Speaker 5: don't think I deserve a pay rise.

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Speaker 4: I are, And it's so awkward having that conversation with

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Speaker 4: himployees who were like, well, i've been here for twelve months.

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Speaker 4: How would you counter that from I guess the perspective

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Speaker 4: we're she's on the money and we want to empower

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Speaker 4: our community, who are mostly employees. What if I'm of

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Speaker 4: that mindset, well, well, I've been with the business for

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Speaker 4: twelve months, so I'm probably due a pay rise. How

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Speaker 4: do we have that conversation kindly to say, well, actually,

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Speaker 4: you really need to look at your performance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I like to say, be careful what you wish for

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Speaker 7: in like every circumstance of your life. But like I

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Speaker 7: just imagine, like if someone wasn't self aware with their

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Speaker 7: own role and they're like, oh, everyone else is getting

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Speaker 7: a pay rise, I'm going to go and ask one.

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Speaker 7: It could be like, well, I'm glad you've brought these

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Speaker 7: up because you're not pulling away.

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Speaker 4: It's happened to me before I've had to say that

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Speaker 4: to an employee they no longer work for me. And

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Speaker 4: this was a long time ago, so good luck pinpointing

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Speaker 4: that one. But it was a really uncomfortable conversation because

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Speaker 4: if you've ever employed people, it's kind of like sometimes

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Speaker 4: you just don't say something about something because you can't

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Speaker 4: be bothered with that argument. Done is better than perfect.

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Speaker 4: At this point in time, I have so many competing priorities.

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Speaker 4: I'm not interested in that conversation. They're getting it done.

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Speaker 4: But when you do ask that question, Glenn and sit

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Speaker 4: down and go, well, actually I want to pay rise,

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Speaker 4: you kind of have to go, Okay, let's talk about

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Speaker 4: your performance, because unfortunately I can't grant you that. But

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Speaker 4: also like, while we're here, let's actually have a really

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Speaker 4: good conversation about what my expectations are because you opened

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Speaker 4: I guess the box of tricks, and now we need

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Speaker 4: to have that conversation because right now you're not meeting

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Speaker 4: expectations and I have, you know, maybe been a little

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Speaker 4: bit slack and letting it slide. But we need to

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Speaker 4: be on the same page. And the fact that you're

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Speaker 4: asking for a pay rise means to me that you

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Speaker 4: can't see that. And I thought that in your position,

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Speaker 4: you might be able to see that things weren't meeting expectation,

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Speaker 4: and by you asking me, it's telling me you really don't.

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Speaker 4: So I need to help you through this, and it's

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Speaker 4: very uncomfortable. I think that is such a good point.

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Speaker 5: Both of your raised this idea of if you want

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Speaker 5: to pay rise, really you need to be exceeding the

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Speaker 5: expectations of your role. So you're being paid for a

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Speaker 5: role that's got a dollar figure signed to it based

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Speaker 5: on the value that that role delivers. And so if

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Speaker 5: you want to achieve let's say you're after a ten

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Speaker 5: k pay rise, we would need to be able to

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Speaker 5: show how are you delivering over that ten k in

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Speaker 5: value to the business. If you can demonstrate that, it's

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Speaker 5: a no brainer for the business because they're like, it

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Speaker 5: costs me to go and rehire you if you were

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Speaker 5: to leave. I want to keep my good people. So yeah, cool,

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Speaker 5: let's have that conversation. But we need to be able

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Speaker 5: to demonstrate not just what the external salary kind of

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Speaker 5: market is doing. We need to demonstrate how am I

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Speaker 5: delivering value in this business so that your business case

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Speaker 5: is strong and it's a no brainer for the employer.

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Speaker 5: But to Glenn's point, if you come in and hey,

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Speaker 5: three months ago, you've got a written warning probably not

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Speaker 5: a good time to ask for a pay rise.

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Speaker 4: Right read the room.

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Speaker 7: I think it does kind of, And you know, we

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Speaker 7: could probably move on because there's a good question here

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Speaker 7: from Live about CVS and image, and we will send

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Speaker 7: you a copy of the book Sort your Money Out.

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Speaker 4: That's Glenn's marketing strategy. Everybody who gets their question answered

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Speaker 4: on the show today, we're going to send you one

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Speaker 4: of Glenn's books because apparently okay, but you're trying to

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Speaker 4: own this.

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Speaker 2: I'm just giving away books.

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Speaker 5: Anyone who wants to learn about pay needs to read

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Speaker 5: your chapter.

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Speaker 7: But all I was going to say is like the

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Speaker 7: question about because we said all the time people ask

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Speaker 7: like I'm in an award role or I'm in a

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Speaker 7: pay band with the government of the question, is it

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Speaker 7: like it may transition to a career question, not a

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Speaker 7: job question, because there could be roles where the employer

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Speaker 7: or the company just can't pay extra for that position

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Speaker 7: and now it's just a.

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Speaker 2: You've outgrown them career.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I was literally about to say the same thing, Jess.

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Speaker 4: And it's not a bad thing for you to outgrow

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Speaker 4: a role. Sometimes you've got everything out of that role

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Speaker 4: and you've reached the top and there's.

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Speaker 2: Lead with grace and yeah, it's all awesome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but that makes me uncomfortable, so I don't really

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Speaker 4: want to do that. And the easier thing is to

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Speaker 4: ask for a pay rise and then be a bit

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Speaker 4: salty that I'm not getting it. And sometimes the cold

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Speaker 4: hard truth of well, actually, for you to get that

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Speaker 4: pay rise, you actually need to leave is the reality.

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Speaker 4: And it sucks because sometimes you love the culture and

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Speaker 4: you love the business and it makes so much sense

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Speaker 4: and it aligns to your goals, but it's not serving

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Speaker 4: you in the way that you're telling me it needs to.

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Speaker 4: So sometimes you do have to move on speaking.

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Speaker 6: Which moving on that great question that lives sent through says,

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Speaker 6: would it be great to know more tips and tricks

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Speaker 6: on how to make your application look good enough to

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Speaker 6: get interviews? I've discovered, particularly as you try to move

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Speaker 6: up in your career, application seevs and cover letters are

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Speaker 6: often laid out differently or presented differently, and I feel

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Speaker 6: like I fall shot on paper. And I'm so curious

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Speaker 6: to hear your answer, because I've heard very conflicting opinions

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Speaker 6: on whether or not the visual of those things matters.

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Speaker 4: I would just send them a picture of your cat,

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Speaker 4: and that's.

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Speaker 6: Very like spot. Yeah, that's very like to work.

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Speaker 4: In fact, ask Annalisa what we spoke about in her

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Speaker 4: first interview. It was her cat and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 4: you are my people come this way? Would you like

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Speaker 4: the job of producer? Hied it? I mean, we also

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Speaker 4: like to CV and she's actually incredibly talented. But that's

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Speaker 4: not the point, is it.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's the values alignment. Oh yes, So a couple

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Speaker 5: of things visually. Let's talk about that first, because that's

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Speaker 5: what you're interesting. Yeah. So I think there's a couple

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Speaker 5: of great designs on like Etsy that are simple, that

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Speaker 5: are visually beautiful, and I think you can get them.

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Speaker 4: They're like really cheap, They're like a couple of bucks usually.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I personally think you should find something that

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Speaker 5: reflects your personality. So if you want to show up

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Speaker 5: with a bit of personality, that's to me really good.

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Speaker 5: There is some things visually that the recruiter or the

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Speaker 5: hiring manager or HR person want to see. It needs

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Speaker 5: to be simple, so simple enough to read through quickly,

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Speaker 5: because if you imagine a recruiter or HR are looking

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Speaker 5: at this for possibly one minute, they're doing the super

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Speaker 5: quick scan and they're trying to shortlist. So your goal

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Speaker 5: is get yourself onto the yes or the maybe pile.

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Speaker 5: So keep your CV and your cover letter clear and concise.

440
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 5: This is the biggest part. I read an application the

441
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 5: other day of someone who had eight pages.

442
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, as I please.

443
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, I'm.

444
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 4: Not going to go through that. But that also tells

445
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 4: me that you don't know how to clarify information and really,

446
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 4: I guess summarize it down, which to me is a

447
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 4: very important skill.

448
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,159
Speaker 5: Totally, So we want it to be really clear, concise,

449
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 5: and specific to that employer. And that's the big one.

450
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 5: I don't like the copy paste applications. I like when

451
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 5: people have done it where they've tailored it to the

452
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 5: actual business. So their cover letters should be tailored to

453
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 5: the business. Talk about the business values in your cover letter.

454
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 5: If you google them, you look on their website and

455
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 5: it says one of their values is integrity.

456
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 6: Talk about that, talk about how.

457
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 5: You align with that, and that can really make you

458
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,120
Speaker 5: stand out from everyone else. I also think you should

459
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 5: show a little bit of personality. That's just my preference.

460
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 5: I like that people come in and talk about what

461
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 5: makes them stand out.

462
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 4: I feel like I look as an employer for a

463
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 4: few different things, but it's not really what I'm looking for, right,

464
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 4: it's what I'm seeing and going absolutely no. Like if

465
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 4: in the job description I've said address the cover letter too,

466
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 4: I would expect that to be followed. And if you

467
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 4: haven't followed it and you've just put a to whom

468
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 4: it may concern, I'm like, cool, So you don't have

469
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 4: good attention to detail. If I've asked you to attach

470
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 4: a cover letter and a resume and you only attach

471
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 4: your resume and don't bother with a cover letter, I'm like, cool,

472
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 4: you don't have good attention to detail and you haven't

473
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 4: followed the process that I've asked you to follow. To me,

474
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 4: those are really quick ways for me to just like

475
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 4: wipe your resume off the table because you haven't listened

476
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 4: and I need someone who follows attention to detail. If

477
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 4: you're listening to this podcast as well, shall I do

478
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 4: something real cheeky in my life? You're gonna give it away,

479
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 4: I'll do it because if you've listened this far, then

480
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 4: I feel like you deserve to know. Sorry, So in

481
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 4: my job descriptions, if I'm like advertising on LinkedIn, and

482
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 4: you can go find this literally right now, because I

483
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 4: am advertising at the moment for a few roles. Halfway through,

484
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 4: it will explain in the about you section, it'll be like,

485
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 4: you have a high attention to detail this that the other.

486
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 4: Then it will say you understand that to apply for

487
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 4: this job, you have to use the email that's at

488
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 4: the bottom of this advertisement and address it to Victoria

489
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 4: and send an email directly, including a cover letter and

490
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 4: this and that and whatever I'm asking for. Like recently,

491
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 4: I've been hiring a copywriter, so I asked for a

492
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 4: cover letter, a resume, and a portfolio of work, and

493
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 4: then at the bottom I put my email. If you

494
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 4: apply directly on LinkedIn, I don't even look at it

495
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 4: because you did not follow the directions. And I mean,

496
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 4: that's I guess, a very entitled way to recruit. But

497
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 4: Glenn will be the same when we recruit. Because we're

498
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 4: in media and because we are I guess so visible,

499
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 4: we do get a high volume of applicants. And to me,

500
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 4: that's a really easy way to go. I've already cut

501
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 4: it in half, and I feel like that's real cheeky,

502
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 4: and I shouldn't have admitted that.

503
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 6: But I love that. I love that.

504
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 5: I think a lot of organizations who get a high

505
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 5: volume of applications have a couple of little hoops that

506
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 5: they want you to jump through and show that you've

507
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 5: done and it's exactly what you said, Hi, Victoria. I

508
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 5: don't like when people are like, dear hiring manager. I'm

509
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 5: just like, that's a cut and copy cover letter. Don't

510
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 5: like it.

511
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, unless there's absolutely no information provided, in which case

512
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 4: it would be appropriate to do that. Like, I just

513
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 4: think if you know that you're applying to my millennial

514
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 4: money to work with Glenn and shall you know their names?

515
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: You know the trick wire like I call them the

516
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: truth wires.

517
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 4: You've got them to I've never had an original experience.

518
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: I thought you must have good England skills.

519
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 7: No cover letter. I don't even open. I don't actually care.

520
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 7: And then if people mention I've got good England, it's like, yeah, you.

521
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 5: Get me, you are my people.

522
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 4: I did it in my copywriting job. I put an

523
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 4: error on purpose and then a few people mentioned it.

524
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 4: I was like, ah, because they're like, I also have

525
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 4: really good attention to detail. I don't know if it

526
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 4: was you trying to trip us up? Or you're trying

527
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 4: to make us show that we have a good attention

528
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 4: to detail, but you spelt this wrong and I was like, hey,

529
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 4: so smart that. Otherwise all the people that skipped that

530
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 4: just thought I was really dumb. And that's okay. You

531
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 4: think whatever you think, Glenn. What's another absolutely no go

532
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 4: that comes up in a resume for you?

533
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: Just high level?

534
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 7: Like and I think it's knowing the organization that you're

535
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 7: applying to, Like I've only hired like my last round

536
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 7: of hiring, I think there was forty five applications. I

537
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 7: sat down with three people, and I sat down with

538
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 7: them based off the cover letter only Yep. Agreed, I'm

539
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 7: hiring a person, not a position. I love that And

540
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 7: that's kind of the That's why we got to know

541
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 7: your audience. And if it's the government and bureaucracy, sure

542
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 7: it's probably going to be templated and you know different.

543
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 7: But if it's small business. The ones who said dear

544
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 7: hiring manager, it was that instant, Well, they don't listen

545
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 7: to the show. I really want someone who gets what

546
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 7: we do.

547
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 5: The research part of it is really important. Do your

548
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 5: research get on their socials get on their website, read

549
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 5: their annual report, do as much research as you can.

550
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 5: That's how you stand out. Add all that stuff into

551
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 5: the cover letter, and me like, look at me, I

552
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 5: know your business because if you use their language, even

553
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 5: how they speak, so you use quite colloquial language, I'd

554
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 5: be mirroring that in my cover letter because then for you, Glenn,

555
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 5: as the employer, you're looking at that going I feel

556
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 5: like they know me.

557
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: Oh I could not agree with that more.

558
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 7: And it's a bit weird to read because it's like, oh,

559
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 7: they really know me and I don't know them.

560
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 4: But it's exactly what you're looking for, right And with

561
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: this copywriting role, I found the same to be absolutely

562
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 4: true because I'm hiring someone that can be fun and

563
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 4: a little bit like us, and like I'm hiring for

564
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 4: tona voice and the idea that I'm even asked. Yes,

565
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 4: she's been asking for this copywriter role for more than

566
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 4: twelve months. I haven't let go yet of doing it

567
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: all myself because I'm like, how will it sound like me?

568
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 4: How will it sound like she's on the money if

569
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 4: it's not me? And so this idea that people can

570
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 4: show me that at the very start. I was like

571
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 4: very drawn to a few people just because of that.

572
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, one other tip, don't be afraid to go a

573
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 7: little bit further, Like it could be a little video

574
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 7: like Hi, you know, I just wanted to say this

575
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 7: is who I am, Like, it's not going.

576
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: To be appropriate. Job.

577
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 6: That's what I did.

578
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's doing that thing.

579
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 7: You've just got to do what other people don't do

580
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 7: one hundred percent, but to your comfort level.

581
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: Like some people aren't like that, and I would. You're

582
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 2: like Jess also.

583
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 4: A fully edited, fully curated, and choreographed YouTube.

584
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 5: Video, not a dance.

585
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 6: I thought you're gonna say choreographed dance and I was like,

586
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 6: I didn't do that.

587
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 5: No, no she didn't.

588
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 4: But it was properly edited and like I had a

589
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 4: cover tile and literally every photoshop. But if you're not

590
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 4: comfortable with that, absolutely don't do that, because that'll just

591
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 4: show that you're not comfortable.

592
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 7: But shell, if we go to the other side of

593
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 7: the coin, and it is a role that is heavily

594
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 7: corporate or government, we really want to get to the

595
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 7: point with experience and actually ideally we're looking for xyzed

596
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 7: just bam, bam bam, because you just want to get

597
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 7: in the door.

598
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 5: You've got to curate your experience. Because you only have

599
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 5: two pages on your resume. Do not go over two pages.

600
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 5: Keep it short and sharp, and curate your experience to

601
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 5: what's relevant to that role. So you don't need to

602
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 5: put everything in there, but make sure you're hitting on

603
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 5: the core requirements that are expressed in that job.

604
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 7: At Live will send you a book and in the

605
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 7: book things a QR code with templates, cover.

606
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 5: Letter and resume. That's cool.

607
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 6: Before we go to a really quick break, I have

608
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 6: one more question that I really want to get everybody

609
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 6: to weigh in on, because there's been a lot of

610
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 6: discourse recently in the.

611
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 4: Community of that word it do you Oh yeah.

612
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 6: Very fun? Victoria ruffled some feathers. So this question comes

613
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 6: from Melissa. She said, when in an industry where pay

614
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 6: can't be negotiated, let's say, for example, teaching, how can

615
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 6: we make ourselves seem a step above others when looking

616
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 6: for opportunities. I feel like these fields can seem quite

617
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 6: limiting in regard to salary progression without having to increase qualifications.

618
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 6: And this came off the back I think of the

619
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 6: comment that VD made recently around pay rises and inflation

620
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 6: and how if you're not getting a pay rise you're

621
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 6: on the back foot.

622
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: Which, how are we talking about that today? We let Victoria.

623
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: Blowing the Internet up and making them angry. I was

624
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: saying to Jess, like, I know I did something because

625
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 4: my dms are so nasty.

626
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 6: Wow, it made some people angry, And I think there

627
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 6: was a real sentiment I think from people who work

628
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 6: in careers where they have maybe EBAs in place and

629
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 6: things of that nature, where they're like, I don't even

630
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 6: really get to negotiate. So I feel like Alissa's question

631
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 6: is really relevant because there is a whole chunk of

632
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 6: people who maybe aren't in a position like someone like

633
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 6: me where you can go, oh, I feel like things

634
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 6: are changing. Let's have a conversation about it. So what

635
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 6: would you recommend for those kind of people?

636
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 5: So you really need to think about your long term career.

637
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 5: If you're a teacher or you're in nursing and you

638
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 5: have a fixed level of increase, and once you get

639
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 5: to the top of that after four years you maxed out,

640
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 5: You've got to think, how can I increase my pay

641
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 5: if that's what you want to do now. Not everyone wants.

642
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 6: To do that.

643
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 5: But let's say your goal is to increase your pay.

644
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 5: It's what Glenn said before. You need to find a

645
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 5: way of changing your career or maybe you look for

646
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 5: a management role. So in teaching, you might look for

647
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 5: an assistant principal role, like what do I need to

648
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 5: get to an assistant principal level? And you plan that out,

649
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 5: and you might need to plan it out five years

650
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 5: ahead to try and go, well, what are the skills

651
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 5: that assistant principles have, what are the things that differentiate them?

652
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 5: And therefore, what can I do now in the lead

653
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 5: up to that to position myself to stand out. The

654
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 5: other thing I'd say for anyone who's in this spot

655
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 5: is talk to people who are further along and they're

656
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 5: in the position that you want, or they're getting the

657
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 5: equivalent pay that you want in your industry, and get

658
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 5: their advice on what they did in their career that

659
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 5: you can mirror, because often we feel stuck when we're

660
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 5: in that enterprise bargaining agreement kind of world where we've

661
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 5: got this really fixed, rigid way of getting pay increases.

662
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: But there are ways around it. And we interviewed for

663
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 5: the book someone who is in nursing who told us

664
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 5: about they went back. They did go back and study,

665
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 5: they got their master's degree and then they ended up

666
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 5: as a transition from a nurse to a nurse unit

667
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 5: manager and they got quite a significant pay rise that

668
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 5: came with their new expectations of the role. So that's

669
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 5: some of the ways around it. And I mean, Glenn,

670
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 5: what's your take, because you've got a really good perspective

671
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 5: on this.

672
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

673
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 7: I actually interviewed somebody who was a nurse and they

674
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 7: actually did i think four days a week permanent and

675
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 7: then one day a week as a casual in the pool.

676
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 7: So by just being a little bit creative, they increase

677
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 7: their salary. And you know, it's also nuanced. But I

678
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 7: think it all comes down to, yeah, it's a career discussion,

679
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 7: not a job discussion. And then secondly, depending on your

680
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 7: life stages, if you love what you're doing. You know,

681
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 7: I'll be really radical here because I heard about this

682
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 7: example the other day. I know someone moving to Melbourne

683
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 7: and they're going to be working four days a week

684
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 7: with the government. It's the same paysation and it's with

685
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 7: the Victorian government four days a week and it's the

686
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 7: same salary as new Southwest Government five days a.

687
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: Week in Melbourne did come back up.

688
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 7: We got there and Melbourne rent and house prices a

689
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 7: little bit more affordable than Sydney.

690
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: Sydney's insane.

691
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: So look, that's a drastic measure as well.

692
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 7: You might bring location is a big I mean, I'm

693
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 7: not going to pick up and leave my friends and family,

694
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 7: but other people might be up for an experience with

695
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 7: their career. Doesn't have to be forever. You might have

696
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 7: to transfer to Upskill. All I would say is your

697
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 7: career is not linear.

698
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: Is that what you say? I say one of us,

699
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: I don't know you. She added that talk about yeah,

700
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: we don't.

701
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 5: We've kind of got the idea of just blow up

702
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 5: the career ladder. One of the guys on our podcast,

703
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 5: Moment in your Career, Ben Carl's, he said, the career

704
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 5: ladder is dead. It's a career jungle gym.

705
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 6: Fun.

706
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, how just has been treating it?

707
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally like go across, fall off the jungle gym,

708
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 5: like get back off the shell out.

709
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: This podcast is over, just like the Alright, I have

710
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 4: so many more questions for you guys, and we'll get

711
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 4: to them right after this break. All right, Well, you're back,

712
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: and I feel like, Glenn, the one thing that we

713
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: were missing on the flip side there was your advice

714
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: that says, at the end of the day, if you

715
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 4: don't like the pay, you can move careers. And I

716
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 4: mean it's very dramatic advice to be like, well, if

717
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 4: you don't like it, leave and that feels really rude.

718
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's kind of like if

719
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 4: you're signing up and I don't mean this in an

720
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 4: awful way, and I think the teachers and nurses and

721
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: everybody in those I guess provider type roles should be

722
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 4: paid more. This is not the conversation for that right now.

723
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: But if you're in a position where as you're saying before, Shelle,

724
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 4: it's an eba role, you know what you're getting yourself

725
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 4: into when you sign up to do that career and

726
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 4: then you're deeply unhappy about it. Maybe that's not the

727
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 4: career for you. Maybe we need to pivot it, Maybe

728
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 4: we need to shake it on its head and go

729
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 4: all right, well, maybe a full time tutoring role where

730
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: you control what you charge and you control the narrative

731
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 4: is going to work better for you. Maybe working in

732
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: a different sector might work, and I know that that's

733
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 4: not I guess the advice that a lot of people

734
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 4: want from us, because often what they want from us

735
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 4: is the answer that they can go to their employer

736
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 4: and be like, actually, you do have to pay me

737
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 4: more for what I'm currently doing. Sadly that's not always

738
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 4: the case though, right I.

739
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 7: Would say, just on that comment, like, with all the

740
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 7: financial principles that you teach, you know, if you keep

741
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 7: out of consumer debt, have an emergency fund, you know,

742
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 7: run a lean budget, do the best you can with

743
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 7: what you've got that gives you more options to change

744
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 7: if you don't like it in the medium or to

745
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 7: the long term.

746
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: Really, and also think a little bit differently.

747
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 7: I interview to another lady on the show the other day,

748
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 7: and this was awesome. She was in HR, like literally

749
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 7: managing people in HR. She moved to the IT industry

750
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 7: and is in HR software now so and she picked

751
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 7: up fifty or sixty grand work from home like Flexible,

752
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 7: Loving Life, and I'm just like, Yeah, this is what

753
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 7: it's all about. And I just think, particularly you know,

754
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 7: chapter one, Shell spends so much time on working your values,

755
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 7: like what do you value? Because I like to say

756
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 7: that it's two edged sword. You know, it's all rainbows

757
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 7: and unicorns over here, and that's awesome. We want that.

758
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 7: But on the other side, all the money in the

759
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 7: world isn't going to keep you were a toxic workplace. Yeah,

760
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 7: So it's not always about the money, but it comes

761
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 7: to a point where it is. So I think it's

762
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 7: just having, you know, good financial foundations behind you and

763
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 7: if you're not right there now, hang in there and

764
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 7: go okay. Over the next twelve months, I'm working on

765
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 7: my emergency fund, I'm paying down debt because I'm going

766
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 7: to make a career pivot.

767
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 4: I think that's so important. It actually leads into a

768
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 4: question from Dione, who's obviously going to get one of

769
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 4: Glenn's books as well, and she asks, are there career

770
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: counselors for adults? How do you find them? How much

771
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 4: should you be paying, and what can we expect from them.

772
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 4: I think that's such a good question to answer here

773
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 4: because it kind of goes you know, Glenn, you were

774
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 4: talking about pivoting, but how do we do that if

775
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 4: we don't know what we're looking at it? We're overwhelmed

776
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 4: And like care's counselor at school, that was really cool.

777
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 4: Is that a thing for adults? Shell, please?

778
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 5: It's so funny we had them at school because when

779
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 5: we're at seventeen years old, we have no idea what

780
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 5: we want to do. No, you know, we definitely need

781
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 5: career counselors and career coaches later in life. There absolutely are.

782
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 5: There's a lot on LinkedIn, so i'd encourage you to

783
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 5: jump on LinkedIn search up career coach. You'll find a

784
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 5: stack of people who do it. There's also I believe

785
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 5: is it Badass Careers. She's in New Zealand. She does

786
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 5: some cool stuff. There's some people out there doing some

787
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 5: good work in this space, So jump on LinkedIn search

788
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 5: career coach and you'll find good people. Pretty sure. It

789
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 5: costs like around three point fiftyer session on average, that's

790
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 5: my guess.

791
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's pretty reasonable. I think to give you enough

792
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 6: clarity to kind of go forward and do what you've

793
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 6: got to do with your career and figure out where

794
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 6: you're going. It's obviously not a small sum of money,

795
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 6: but if you look at it as an investment in

796
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 6: yourself and in your future, like, maybe that's worth it

797
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 6: for you.

798
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 5: Well, if that career coach gets you a five grand

799
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 5: pay rise.

800
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 6: Super worth the money well spent. All right, I'm going

801
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 6: to be a little bit selfish and ask some employee

802
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 6: centric question. Thats going to steal the mic for a second,

803
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 6: if that's okay. I want to start with a question

804
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 6: from Zoe, and she said, my boss said to me recently,

805
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 6: people get more work opportunities when you're in the office more,

806
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 6: not so much when you work remotely.

807
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 5: Thoughts on that comment, Oh, this is a banger.

808
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 6: I feel like there's a lot of discourse again out

809
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 6: there right now on this, and it does sometimes feel

810
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 6: like employeers tend to lean one way and employees tend

811
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 6: to lean the other.

812
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 5: So I'm will guess what's your vibe.

813
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 6: I think I'm a champion for flexible work. I always

814
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 6: have been. I've worked in roles with literally zero flexibility,

815
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 6: and I said post COVID never again, like if a

816
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 6: role doesn't off me flexibility in the future, and I'm

817
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 6: very thankful that right now mine does. But if a

818
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 6: role didn't off me flexibility, I actually wouldn't take it

819
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 6: at this point in my career. I don't think that

820
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 6: it should be a reflection. I think that if you're

821
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 6: working hard and doing what you need to do. If

822
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 6: you're not pulling your weight, as you were saying earlier, Glenn,

823
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 6: surely that's showing up like things aren't getting done, or

824
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 6: things are being missed to deadlines aren't being met, like

825
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 6: someone's seeing that you're not doing what you need to

826
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 6: do even when you're not sitting at a desk. But

827
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 6: I do also think that there is that age old

828
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 6: thing of sometimes the people who progress fastest or highest

829
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 6: in a company or an industry are ones who are

830
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 6: not doing so necessarily because they're the best at their job.

831
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 6: It's because they have built relationships with people. It's because

832
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 6: they're a networker or a connector they're providing values or vibes,

833
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 6: if you will, in other ways. And so if you

834
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 6: are working remotely, it's much harder for you to do that.

835
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 6: But it's harp because they don't think that that necessarily

836
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 6: should be the case.

837
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 5: You know, you're so spot on two big things. Visibility matters,

838
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 5: So your visibility in the organization matters, and that's why

839
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 5: I think there's quite a lot of bias towards people

840
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: working in the office. So leaders it probably makes their

841
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: job easier in some ways, and it's this whole thing

842
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 5: of if I see you, you must be performing total crap, right,

843
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 5: But there's an assumption around that of if you're there,

844
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 5: you must be working hard. And I think that's why

845
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 5: there's this bias and tendency towards let's get everyone back

846
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 5: into the office, because we're all here, we all must

847
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 5: be working. Yeah, And the thing I think we need

848
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 5: to talk about more is, well, how do we be

849
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 5: visible when we're remote working? How do I get proximity

850
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 5: to the boss who's making decisions about promotions when I'm

851
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 5: working remotely? So we need to be active on zoom, Like,

852
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 5: if you're working remotely, turn your camera on. Don't be

853
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 5: that person who never turns it on, So show up now.

854
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 5: I know there's reasons sometimes maybe people don't turn the

855
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 5: cameras on, and that's fine, But what I want you

856
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 5: to do is how do I become more visible here?

857
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 5: How do I stand out? And yes, going into the

858
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 5: office kind of helps you do that. I'm a big,

859
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 5: big believer in full time remote work, like I work

860
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 5: remotely full time or for it, but I understand why

861
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 5: leaders want people to come back into the office. So

862
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 5: there's two sides to that coin. I guess my main

863
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 5: thing is how do you, to your point, Jess, build relationships,

864
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 5: build equity in that business, socially build those networks because

865
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 5: they're the things that are going to help you when

866
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 5: that promotion opportunity comes up. You want to be front

867
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 5: of mind for the decision maker, and the way that

868
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 5: you do that is you've been visible, You've demonstrated your credibility,

869
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 5: and those things together mean that you land the job.

870
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 7: I think as well, the craft or the trade or

871
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 7: the occupation that you do that needs to take care

872
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 7: of itself. Like, that's the hygiene factor. You're really good

873
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 7: at your job. Yeah, and that whole front of mind thing.

874
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,439
Speaker 7: If it is a remote team, the front of mind

875
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 7: stuff will probably more be happening on the social side, like, hey,

876
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 7: we all work remote here. I reckon at least once

877
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 7: every two weeks. We just come into the city. Whoever

878
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 7: can have a coffee. I think the being noticing it

879
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 7: doesn't have to be work noticed, it can be social. Yeah,

880
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 7: because the hygiene factory is that you've good at your job.

881
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree, Like it should just be a given.

882
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 6: How do you manage it? Because your team is pretty

883
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 6: much entirely remote and obviously you're on the employer side, like.

884
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I've made the call that at least twice

885
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 7: a year we come together.

886
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 6: I love that.

887
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 7: Every Thursday afternoon, because we do a four day work week,

888
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 7: we do our afternoon chat. We call it two good

889
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 7: Things and everyone goes around and says, what are two

890
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 7: good things that have happened this week that are in

891
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 7: line with one of our values and why so we

892
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 7: do that and then yeah, we do a mid year

893
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 7: together and then a Christmas party together. Yeah, increast because

894
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 7: it is expensive to fly everyone into gather.

895
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 6: They're around the country and not all in the same

896
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 6: state where you can kind of all get on a

897
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 6: train or get in a car.

898
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 7: It definitely would be But I honestly don't think sometimes

899
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 7: the fact that you're a remote worker, like the boss

900
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 7: that said that to the questioner, you can be present

901
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 7: and be a remote team and get those opportunities.

902
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, I like that, changing the old school mindset. Next,

903
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 6: I've got one from Melanie who said, when should I

904
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 6: move on from a job when I'm not learning more,

905
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 6: when I can't get any more pay rises, et cetera.

906
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great question. I've been thinking heaps lately,

907
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 5: Jess about this idea of grit or quit, Like, when

908
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 5: do you like stick it out and show some grit

909
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 5: and stay with an employer and when do you quit?

910
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 5: Because it's a really hard thing to know. So there's

911
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 5: a couple of signs that you need to stick it

912
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 5: out and show some grit. The first thing would be

913
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 5: if you haven't quite mastered the role. So if you

914
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 5: haven't developed that sense of mastery in the role, I

915
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 5: think there's more room for you to learn and grow.

916
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 5: So do that sense check of how have I developed here?

917
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 5: How have I grown? And the second thing would be

918
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 5: do you enjoy it? Do you like the job? Because

919
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 5: if you like the job, when you like the people

920
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 5: you work with, and you're thinking maybe I need to

921
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 5: make a career ladder move, well I challenge you on

922
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 5: that because sometimes the whole thing with the career ladder

923
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 5: makes us feel like we need to be climbing when

924
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 5: really we're happy where we are, but there's this artificial

925
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 5: pressure externally that makes us feel like we have to

926
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 5: be getting the next promotion, learning the next pay rise.

927
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 5: When if you enjoy the place that you work out,

928
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 5: if you enjoy the people that you work with, if

929
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 5: you've got a good To me, they're all massive ticks,

930
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 5: and I would be really thinking whether you know you

931
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 5: should be leaving if those are the things you've got.

932
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: Now.

933
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 5: On the flip side, when should you quit a job?

934
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 5: There's a few signs. Number one, you've stopped growing. So

935
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 5: if you've stopped growing, you're not learning. Those are signs

936
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 5: that it might be time to move on or find

937
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 5: a different job. The other sign is if you're not

938
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 5: getting considered for opportunities. So let's say you're putting your

939
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 5: hand up for promotions maybe internally, and you keep getting

940
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 5: knocked back. That's a signal that maybe there isn't that

941
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 5: room for you to progress there, and in which case

942
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 5: maybe a move externally is right. The other thing would

943
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 5: be if it's a toxic culture. So signs of a

944
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 5: toxic culture would be things like gaslighting, gossip, really a

945
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 5: lot of ego deceptive behaviors. Any of those signs, those

946
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 5: to me are things where you need to be waving

947
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 5: the big red flag and going okay. If management don't

948
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 5: want to hear the feedback on the culture, probably some

949
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 5: signs that you need to move on.

950
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 6: But actually it's really nicely into the next question, which

951
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 6: was from Analyse, which said, how do I navigate being

952
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 6: overlooked as a young female. I'm often infantilized, underestimated, and

953
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 6: uncredited and it's frustrating.

954
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: That speaks to me about culture.

955
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

956
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, because that's ridiculous. I mean, just on that last question,

957
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 7: then Shell can answer an Lisa's question. I really think

958
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 7: it's important. Like another one is like you're bored, Like

959
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 7: I'm being bored lately.

960
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: It's rotten.

961
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 7: I'm doing other things to, you know, stimulate myself. But

962
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 7: I think it's so important to run to something, not

963
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 7: from something.

964
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 6: I like that a lot.

965
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 7: So really, you know, dig into the values. You know,

966
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 7: chapter one of the book all about values. Go back

967
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 7: to your bedrock.

968
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: What do I value?

969
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 7: They might not be in the place that could be

970
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 7: making you not fit because you know, I'm an introvert

971
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 7: and they want me to dance on the desk every day.

972
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: Make sure you're just running to something, not from something.

973
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is such good advice. I agree you should

974
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: writ a book about that.

975
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 5: So to an Lisa's question, yeah, you're right, Glenn speaks

976
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 5: to culture. Sometimes. I was talking to someone the other day.

977
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 5: They work in construction industry, young female, and they had

978
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 5: had some challenges I guess with this similar dynamic of

979
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 5: not feeling heard in a very male dominated industry and

980
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 5: feeling like there's a bit of condescension. And one of

981
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 5: my I guess recommendations was sometimes we need to be

982
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 5: quite overt in challenging behaviors that I think are not.

983
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 6: Okay, call it out, sis, call it out.

984
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 5: So I would be specific and go, hey, when you

985
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 5: said that that made me feel like my opinion wasn't valued.

986
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 5: Or the other day in that meeting, I noticed that

987
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 5: you interrupted me, and I feel like my ideas aren't

988
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 5: heard here. Can we talk about that? Yeah, because we

989
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 5: need to challenge the behavior and often people haven't received

990
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 5: that feedback. And I would encourage this person. If you're

991
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 5: feeling condescended or like your opinion isn't valid because of

992
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 5: your age, your voice matters and we want to hear you.

993
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 5: And actually organizations need to hear from their gen Z employees.

994
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 5: They need to hear from these younger voices who have

995
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 5: great perspective, who have fresh ideas and new insights. They

996
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 5: need that and they're missing out by not hearing your perspective,

997
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 5: think we need to look at how do we present

998
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 5: ideas in a way that sets them up to be received.

999
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 5: So maybe watch in your organization for those social cues

1000
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 5: in meetings and see whose ideas get heard the most

1001
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 5: and why, and understand what are some of the dynamics

1002
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 5: that are going on. Just observe and see what that

1003
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 5: tells you about the culture, because that can give you

1004
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 5: insights into Okay, is it the way that I'm presenting

1005
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 5: the idea or is it simply that these people aren't

1006
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 5: going to hear me, in which case probably don't want

1007
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 5: to stay their long term.

1008
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 7: And I would say to all the you know, business

1009
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 7: owners that are listening, because you've got a lot of

1010
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 7: people that we do own businesses and employee people. A

1011
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 7: lot of the times, people who run businesses, we're just

1012
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 7: steamrollers by nature, right. And what I did was, you know,

1013
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 7: got Shell into facilitate a session with my team. And

1014
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 7: I was just one of the team.

1015
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 4: So I shut my trap, and you did.

1016
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: One of our employees.

1017
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 7: You know, they're meet quiet, and you know that person

1018
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 7: got to say some really gold stuff that might not

1019
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 7: have come out if Michael.

1020
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 6: Scott or they like it can be intimidating As an employee,

1021
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 6: it can definitely be intimidating raising things. Culture is no

1022
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 6: matter how supportive somebody, if you've.

1023
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 2: Got a something and Shell can probably speak so.

1024
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 5: But like.

1025
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 7: You've got to slowly practice in your career to not

1026
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 7: one put up with crap and that takes a bit of.

1027
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: Time and courage and courage.

1028
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 7: And you know, the question I would say, if it

1029
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 7: is appropriate, can you talk with your boss even if

1030
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 7: it's over a coffee or go for a walk, so

1031
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 7: it's on mutual territory and go, hey, I got to

1032
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 7: ask you something really awkward, like is it just me?

1033
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 7: I don't know, Like we're not saying I don't know,

1034
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 7: I just communication and Shell, we've got a.

1035
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 5: Really good episode that I point you to or my

1036
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 5: millennial career. It's having tough conversations with your boss. And

1037
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 5: so it's how do we do those conversations well upwards

1038
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 5: because they're challenging and we feel nervous to bring feedback.

1039
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 5: But again I'll say, your voice matters, and we actually

1040
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 5: leaders need to hear this truth.

1041
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 7: So and the truth is, you know that questioner could

1042
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 7: work for some misogynists. Who doesn't you her and she

1043
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 7: needs to get out of there yesterday. Yeah, well that's also.

1044
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 6: It is absolutely a chance. And if you are a

1045
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 6: business owner and you do want to get someone out,

1046
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 6: Shallie's fantastic and very welcoming. So we'll have the link

1047
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 6: in the show notes so you can check out and

1048
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 6: reach out if that's maybe something you want to facilitate,

1049
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 6: like Glendid with his team. Before we head off, the

1050
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 6: last question I have, I think is going to kind

1051
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 6: of tie everything off in a nice little bow. It

1052
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 6: comes from Jasmine and she wants to know how have

1053
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 6: you guys fostered positive team environments that motivate people to

1054
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 6: get the job done, want to turn up and want

1055
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 6: to contribute to the good team culture and have a

1056
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 6: little bit of fun. Do you do quizzes or trivia

1057
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 6: in the mornings? Toolbox meetings, gratitude walls. What helps to

1058
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 6: make your team feel special and wonded?

1059
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 5: Okay, couple of things and these are so basic that

1060
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 5: far out people don't do this. Number one give positive feedback.

1061
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, you know what I keep thinking.

1062
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 5: Positive feedback is one of the most powerful forces. I

1063
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 5: can be quite cynical by nature, so I've had to

1064
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 5: learn this as a skill I reckon. In my early

1065
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 5: days of being a leader, I was the worst of this,

1066
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 5: Like I'd always be about what are all the things

1067
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 5: you need to fix? But really, one of the things

1068
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 5: I've learned is we need to understand each other's strengths

1069
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 5: and we need to call them out and praise people

1070
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 5: for the good things that they've done. Ping pong tables

1071
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 5: don't care, beanbags don't give.

1072
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: A shit, but it's a cool startup.

1073
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 5: Honestly, no amount of pizza parties is going to fix

1074
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 5: the toxic culture. What will have a huge impact is

1075
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 5: if you find the strengths of your employees, you call

1076
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 5: them out, you encourage them on it. You call out

1077
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 5: your team's strengths. And the other thing that I would

1078
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 5: encourage you to do is have regular one on one

1079
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 5: catch ups. Regular one on one catch ups are one

1080
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 5: of my all time favorite things. That could just be

1081
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 5: fifteen minutes. Get to know people personally on your team.

1082
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 5: Don't think of it as a transactional relationship. The more

1083
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 5: relational equity you've invested into that role, the stronger the culture,

1084
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 5: the stronger the dynamic, the more you feel seen, more

1085
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 5: they'll feel seen.

1086
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 6: The best thing ever, Yeah, if you feel like you

1087
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 6: know the people around you, You're more likely to like

1088
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 6: them and get on with them and relate with them better.

1089
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 6: It can be hard. Like I'm quite introverted, and I've

1090
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 6: worked in big office teams and spaces before, which I

1091
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 6: did not love. But I remember whenever you had someone

1092
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 6: that you both went for the same football team, or

1093
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 6: you both had the same hobby, or watch the same

1094
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 6: TV show and it's just something that had come up

1095
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 6: in an incidental conversation, or it had to come up

1096
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 6: in a one on on with a manager, and then

1097
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 6: when you saw them during the week, be like, oh,

1098
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 6: just catch a new episode, like what did you think?

1099
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 6: Like I'm dying. It makes it feel like a little

1100
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 6: bit more than just I'm an employee and you're my boss.

1101
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 6: Like it gives you something that makes you feel connected.

1102
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 5: I guess the connection that's the point.

1103
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think Jasmine, she may be a team leader.

1104
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 7: I would say a couple of things bring the team

1105
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 7: on the journey. Yeah, like, hey, we want to make

1106
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 7: this a little bit more engaging. Let's have a catch

1107
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 7: up and let's all just put some ideas on what

1108
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 7: we can do and everyone we can write them down

1109
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 7: anonymously one or two things will put them in a

1110
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 7: box or whatever, Like if everyone's like extrovert and party

1111
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 7: time awesome, just do all that. But I think it

1112
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 7: is just understanding your team getting that buy in. I

1113
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 7: know on my team there's someone who you could not

1114
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 7: praise that person enough publicly where someone else might. Yeah,

1115
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 7: I just think take your team with you.

1116
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 6: It's a relationship. Like even if you are an employee

1117
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 6: and yes, your job and yes's paying the bills. Like ultimately,

1118
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 6: if you can feel like you enjoy what you do,

1119
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 6: and if you feel like you have buying or you

1120
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 6: believe in what you're doing, I think that makes the

1121
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,240
Speaker 6: experience more enjoyable for everybody.

1122
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 7: And I would just say to anyone that's still listening, like,

1123
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 7: we spend so much time at work and in our

1124
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 7: career and our job. If it's not ideal right now today,

1125
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 7: you might not be able to change your job, your career,

1126
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 7: your life tomorrow, but please take one step. And that

1127
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:03,479
Speaker 7: could be just thinking, well, in three years time, would

1128
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 7: I be happy that I didn't put up with this

1129
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 7: crap and I started to look elsewhere? Or what advice

1130
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 7: would you give your best friend about your situation? Just

1131
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 7: let's start just thinking, because you know, all the financial stuff,

1132
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 7: it is tired, It is tired out there. Yeah, just

1133
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 7: always look back from a couple of years. So we're

1134
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 7: not having regrets and we're not you know, Oh, I's

1135
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 7: been it two years too long and I'm sick of this.

1136
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1137
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 5: There's that Daniel Pink quote that we talk about in

1138
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 5: the book, and it's such a nice way to round

1139
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 5: out this conversation. And it's the biggest regrets in life

1140
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 5: of the failues of boldness. So if you're thinking right now,

1141
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 5: I should make a change, I should make a change.

1142
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 5: And that's been something on your mind for ages. The

1143
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 5: biggest regrets aren't the things that we did do, the

1144
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 5: biggest regrets of the things we didn't do.

1145
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 4: Wow, guys, it has been an absolute pleasure. Shelle, thanks

1146
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 4: for joining us, Glenn, thanks for coming along.

1147
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1148
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 4: Honestly, I could talk about career stuff all day, but

1149
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 4: as I always say, unfortunately that is all we have

1150
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 4: time for today. Please come back, Please come and hang

1151
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 4: out on our show again. I feel like career content

1152
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 4: is so important for our community to grow and learn

1153
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 4: and be better, I guess in life, but also just

1154
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 4: in their careers like you deserve to have a happy career.

1155
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 4: You deserve to not be stressed about things and not

1156
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 4: you know, lose sleep at night when you're stressed about

1157
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 4: having a conversation with your manager that you definitely shouldn't

1158
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 4: lose sleepover. So I think it's one so important. But Shelle,

1159
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 4: let's do a little shameless plug. You wrote arguably an

1160
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 4: entire book where I'm going to put my affiliate link

1161
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 4: to your book in my show notes so that I'm

1162
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 4: benefiting from this. So if anybody wants me the benefit

1163
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 4: of Shell and Glenn's book, that's how. But where can

1164
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 4: we find it? Where can we find more of you?

1165
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 5: So you can find the books or your career out

1166
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 5: wherever you get good books from. And you can find

1167
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 5: me on LinkedIn or go to our podcast, my Millennial

1168
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 5: Career and Instagram use yep bald Side.

1169
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 6: I love following you guys. It's really helpful.

1170
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 5: You have the best shares. Thank you, thank you.

1171
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 4: We'll see you guys on Friday, but we'll see Glenn

1172
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 4: and Shell hopefully very soon.

1173
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 2: Bye bye.

1174
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 4: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general

1175
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 4: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's

1176
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 4: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should

1177
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 4: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

1178
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 4: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read

1179
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 4: the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards

1180
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 4: your needs. Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are

1181
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,959
Speaker 4: authorized representatives of money Shoper Pty Ltd. A BN three

1182
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 4: two one six four nine two seven seven zero eight

1183
00:55:47,520 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 4: AFSL four five one two eight nine