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Speaker 1: But as you heard just before the news, one in

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Speaker 1: five Saint john NT paramedics left the ambulance service in

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Speaker 1: twenty three twenty four, more than double the attrition rate

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Speaker 1: of the next highest jurisdiction, the ACT. That is according

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Speaker 1: to a report in the Northern Territory News.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Paramedics told the paper this was due to a toxic

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Speaker 1: work culture, distrust between senior management and crews, and trauma

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Speaker 1: of experiencing daily violence and facilities which they've told them

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Speaker 1: are beyond a joke. Now joining us on the line

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Speaker 1: is the Director of Ambulance Services, Andrew Thomas. Good morning Andy,

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Speaker 1: Good morning Caddy. Now Andrew. One in five paramedics reportedly

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Speaker 1: left the service in twenty three twenty four that financial year.

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Speaker 1: First off, are those numbers correct from your perspective?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, credit CDI. Those numbers are the figures that

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Speaker 2: all ambulance services provide to the Productivity Mission, and those

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Speaker 2: numbers are released every January, and we provided information to

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Speaker 2: the media back in January actually around both the attrition

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Speaker 2: rate and then we also highlighted around the significant increase

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Speaker 2: in our workload that we've seen across the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: That's also having an impact on our paramedics and.

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Speaker 1: What are the reasons that paramedics are giving Saint John

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Speaker 1: for leaving their jobs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we obviously look into that sort of thing,

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Speaker 2: and we've gone back and we've looked at you know,

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Speaker 2: through conversations, we've had this staff, you know, resignation letters,

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Speaker 2: all those sorts of things, and the primary reason that

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Speaker 2: people are leaving is because they're taking their opportunities to

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Speaker 2: leave the territory to go back to other locations. We

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Speaker 2: know that we provide training for intern paramedics and so

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Speaker 2: to become a paramedic these days, you have to do

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Speaker 2: your university degree. Once you finish university degree, you have

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Speaker 2: to do an internship. It's like a graduate nurse program

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Speaker 2: for nurses or your registrar fordoctors. Paramedics now do an

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Speaker 2: internship with an ambulance service, and we have had those

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Speaker 2: graduates from interstate coming to the Northern Territory. They do

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Speaker 2: their internship with us, they provide us with a period

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Speaker 2: of time afterwards, but then ultimately most of them are

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Speaker 2: returning back to their home stations. One of the ways

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Speaker 2: that we've tried to stop this or to reduce the

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Speaker 2: impact on this is. We know that we've supported the

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Speaker 2: universities in the Northern Territory. Both Flinders and CDU are

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Speaker 2: now running a paramedic degree program up here which is

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Speaker 2: full the territory. We've seen thirty paramedics start in last

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Speaker 2: year and this year a total of thirty that are

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Speaker 2: now from the territory that are doing their internship. Some

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Speaker 2: of them who started last year have now qualified with us,

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Speaker 2: and we're hoping that we'll start to see a change

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Speaker 2: in that demographic of people coming and us training them

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Speaker 2: and then leaving to other states.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you listen to what the union says,

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Speaker 1: it won't change. Because they say that members are telling

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Speaker 1: them it's a toxic workplace. What do you say to

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Speaker 1: that claim?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Caadie, you know the retric around toxic workplace has

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Speaker 2: been thrown out. We've had multiple times to try and

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Speaker 2: speak with the union and ask them to provide examples

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Speaker 2: or provide us some clear definitions of what that is.

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Speaker 2: Following the union putting a vote of no confidence, we've

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Speaker 2: had the Chairman of the board and the CEO meet

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Speaker 2: with the union in quite a really positive meeting where

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Speaker 2: we were able to get some information from them and

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Speaker 2: the issues that were raised in there were not overly significant.

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Speaker 2: They've obviously they're significant for our staff and we're doing

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Speaker 2: a lot of work with the union and the membership

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Speaker 2: who address those concerns.

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Speaker 1: So I mean they say that there's poor fatigue management,

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Speaker 1: no debriefs, high rates of violence, a lack of resources

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Speaker 1: are among the key issues for workers. Are they being

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Speaker 1: raised with you guys?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, and Katie, they're exactly the things that we've

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Speaker 2: been raising through to the Northern Territory Government and to

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Speaker 2: nt Health and will form a really significant part of

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Speaker 2: our discussions around the contract going forward. We know and

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Speaker 2: have been saying for a long time we are under resourts.

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Speaker 2: Our paramedics do an amazing job, but we have limited resources.

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Speaker 2: Our workload is going up and we have been taking

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Speaker 2: and put in strategies about ensuring our crews get breaks

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Speaker 2: during the day. You know, we had crews running twelve

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Speaker 2: hour shifts where they don't get a single meal break

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Speaker 2: during the day. Last financial year we had over five

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Speaker 2: thousand occasions where our paramedic crews either got a delayed

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Speaker 2: meal break or didn't even get one. And that just

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Speaker 2: comes back to the fact of ambulance resourcing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we know our paramedics do an incredible job.

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Speaker 1: I guess the concern is one of those paramedics has

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Speaker 1: reportedly told the NT News that people are leaving, as

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Speaker 1: I touched on, due to a toxic work culture, distrust

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Speaker 1: between senior management and crews, and the trauma of experiencing

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Speaker 1: daily violence and facilities there are beyond a joke telling

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Speaker 1: the paper sint John is not a place that people

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Speaker 1: want to work. That's what that paramedic has told the paper.

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Speaker 1: I mean, does John seek different feedback on why people

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Speaker 1: are leaving?

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Speaker 2: Look, we know that the and you know, you and

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Speaker 2: I have spoken numerous times about the inappropriate workplace you know,

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Speaker 2: violence that our paramedics receive. You know, if why would

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Speaker 2: anyone want to come to a work place where each

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Speaker 2: day you go there, you're being a views, you're being

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Speaker 2: spat on, and we're being physically threatened. You know, our

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Speaker 2: paramedics are amazing people. They do it because they love

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Speaker 2: their job. But we know that we see the highest

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Speaker 2: rate of occupational violence across any eminal service in across Australia.

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Speaker 2: We're not alone. We know that health services up here

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Speaker 2: and police are seeing the same things. And we know

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Speaker 2: that attrition rates in the Northern Territory across all services,

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Speaker 2: both emergency services, across government, across private business, we see

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Speaker 2: very very high attrition rates with people leaving and moving

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Speaker 2: through the territory. Partly it's a transiit nature, but also

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Speaker 2: to those social impacts that we've all been talking about,

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Speaker 2: we know they impact on people's in wanting to stay

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Speaker 2: in the territory. Absolutely. Some of our workplace facilities across

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Speaker 2: particularly in Darwin. Again, we know that infrastructure is something

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Speaker 2: that we've been highlighting with government for a long period

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Speaker 2: of time and we're going it will form part of

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Speaker 2: our contract going forward about improving those places and the

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Speaker 2: workplace environments for our staff because we know that we

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Speaker 2: are reaching a point where we need more crews, we

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Speaker 2: need more resources, but we don't have the locations of

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Speaker 2: the facility to actually put them on.

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Speaker 1: Andrew, do you believe that staff have confidence in management?

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Speaker 1: I mean, Erina Early said on the show earlier this morning.

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Speaker 1: For real change, it would mean replacing the whole executive.

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Speaker 1: What do you say to those calls?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think you know you know as an executive

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Speaker 2: and particularly our ambulance leadership team are working extremely hard

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Speaker 2: to work to improve the systems and the structures and

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Speaker 2: the workplace for our paramedics and our patient transport offices

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Speaker 2: and our emergency call takers and all those people that

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Speaker 2: are delivering the care to Northern Territory. You know, in

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Speaker 2: some respects we've had a turnover of our executive through

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Speaker 2: natural attrition over the past three to four years. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: we continue to look at how we can do things

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Speaker 2: and work with our staff. We're engaged a Tolpicul reform

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Speaker 2: project at the moment and we're working with both across

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Speaker 2: all levels, across the organization and at all locations around

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Speaker 2: what we can do to make change.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Thomas, before I let you go this morning, I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask you has there been any update

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Speaker 1: on the contract held by Saint John to provide services

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Speaker 1: in the NT. You and I spoke about that a

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Speaker 1: few weeks ago. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, as we spoke previously, Katie, we've started the preliminary

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Speaker 2: discussions with NT Health in terms of a process for

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Speaker 2: the Emergency road annuals and so that will cover emergency

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Speaker 2: ANUL that will cover the emergency response and then also

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Speaker 2: our Triple zero call takers and the triple zero service.

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Speaker 2: We do know government indicated that for the non emergency

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Speaker 2: patient transport that there will be a wide attended process

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Speaker 2: going out and that will be coming out further in

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Speaker 2: the future. You know, Saint John looks forward to having

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Speaker 2: those discussions with NT government around how we can look

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Speaker 2: to deliver the best a contemporary, up up, you know,

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Speaker 2: fit for purpose ambulance service into the future.

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Speaker 1: Well, Andrew Thomas, the Saint John Ambulance Director of Ambulance Services,

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Speaker 1: really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: us on the show.

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Speaker 2: No problem CARTI have a great day you too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you