WEBVTT - Why did the Coalition break up again? 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.240 Already and this is the Daily OS. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.120 This is the Daily OS. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:06.840 Oh now it makes sense. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.160 Good morning and welcome to the Daily Odds. It's Friday, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:18.520 the twenty third of January. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.000 I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Emma Gillespie. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.079 For the second time in less than a year, the 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.920 Nationals have walked away from the Federal Coalition. This time, 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.520 the exit was sparked by one of the two bills 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.040 the government brought to a special sitting of Parliament this week, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.199 but ended up centering on the inner workings of the 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.760 coalition and the parties that make it up. Today, we'll 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.640 take you through the whole story from the beginning, explaining 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.120 everything you need to know about the coalition's latest breakup. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.920 Lucy, I've got a bit of deja vous this week 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.920 with these headlines. You said you would explain this one 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.080 from the beginning, but when is that a exactly Well. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.680 I had a lot of thinking to do about where 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.399 this technically starts. Do we start when the coalition formed 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.640 for the first time, which was in nineteen twenty three. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.400 Do we say in nineteen eighty seven when they reformed 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.440 for good after a short break after running separately in 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.680 the Federal election and losing very badly to Bob Hawk's 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.400 Labor for the third time in a row. After that election, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.679 they got back together and they were together all through 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:34.399 until last year, including in government and opposition last year. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:36.959 Of course, May twenty twenty five. The last time we 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.960 talked about the coalition's history and formation was after the 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:46.040 most recent federal election, and that's when National's leader David 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:51.400 Littelproud said the party couldn't secure guarantees about several policy 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.960 positions as the coalition was kind of considering its place 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.040 post election loss. 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.840 So as in he couldn't secure guarantees about where the 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.200 Nationals would stand on liberal policy positions. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.400 Yeah, he basically because the coalition acts together. The Nationals 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.520 wanted certain things to be coalition policy, and he couldn't 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.280 secure guarantees from the Liberals, the senior partner, and the 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.680 coalition that those things would be agreed to. 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:17.280 Okay. 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.919 Now, At the time, Liberal leader Susan Lee said that 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.120 this was because every policy was up for review post 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.720 election and she wouldn't commit to anything specific because they 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:29.400 were still working through that process. 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:29.840 Okay. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.200 When they split last time, it lasted eight days. When 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:37.880 they got back together. That reunion didn't resolve everything, as 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.639 we now see, and one of those things that was 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.160 left unresolved, which i'll just foreshadow, is called shadow cabinet solidarity. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.360 That reared its head again this week as Parliament sat 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.000 to pass two emergency bills. Now, Emma, you were on 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.840 the pod earlier this week to explain the context of 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.359 those bills, so maybe you can give us a quick rundown. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.520 Yeah, so very complicated, but I'll try to keep it simple. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.919 As I explained earlier in the week, there were two 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.280 bills before Parliament this special sitting in the wake of 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.400 the anti Semitic Bondi terror attack. Initially that was one 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.639 piece of legislation, then it was split. We won't get 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.919 into that. One of the bills was to tighten gun 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:20.280 ownership rules and one was around hate speech. Now, the 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.440 gun reform Bill you've probably heard about. It includes a 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.720 national buyback scheme, a new condition requiring firearm license holders 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:32.120 to be Australian citizens, and some other reforms there. While 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.440 the Hate Speech Bill, much more controversial piece of legislation, 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.040 it has to be said, had a few aspects, but 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.280 probably the most relevant one to this discussion. Based on 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.960 what I've read at least was around a new national 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:48.120 framework allowing the government to formally list prohibited hate groups 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:53.000 similar to how terrorist organizations are listed. So, Lucy, the 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:57.720 Coalition was involved in amending these bills. It said that 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.640 it had certain sticking points that it wanted to see 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.240 resolved in order to support the bills. What do we 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.960 know about what the Nats wanted changed on. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.480 The Hate Speech Bill, which, as you said, is the 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:14.120 most relevant to us today. The most contentious Opposition leader 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.599 Susan Lee has said the Coalition had worked to quote 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.320 narrow the scope of this bill to deal with anti 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:25.600 Semitism and tackle radical Islamist extremism. Now Lee's version of 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.240 events is that the Shadow Cabinet, so that's her team 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.840 of senior ministers from across the coalition, met on Sunday 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.760 night to look over the government's proposed bills and to 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.680 work out any issues they wanted to raise before they 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.600 were brought to Parliament, then to discuss those with the government, 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.440 which they then did, and then the bills came to 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:48.039 Parliament assumedly with the support of the Coalition. Then after that, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.720 according to reporting by Paul Sakhal at The Sydney Morning Herald. 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:56.000 The Nationals then met as a party separately on Monday 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.560 and Tuesday and came to a different position with the 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.719 input of backbencher Matt Canavan, who was concerned the hate 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.240 group listing part of the bill might end up including 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.520 quote mainstream political and religious groups. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:15.800 Okay, to recap, the coalition leadership from what we know, 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.120 had agreed to a position, or the Liberal Party says 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.520 the coalition leadership had agreed to a position. It's agreed 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.839 to support the Hate Speech Bill if the Government agrees 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.559 to some changes. So the coalition says, these other things 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.440 we need to change. We're all aligned on that. If 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.320 that changes, we support this bill. And the Government then 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.200 does make those changes to allow the bill to pass. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:41.919 Then the Nationals, including those who are in the shadow cabinet, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:47.560 so senior leadership, they meet to discuss other issues away from. 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:48.520 The Liberal Party. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.839 What happened once the bills came to Parliament in a 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.400 form that I'm assuming the Liberal Party thought the Nationals 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:55.039 would support. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.000 Yeah, So when the bills went to the lower House, 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:03.279 the House of Representatives, one Nationals MP abstained from voting 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.200 for the bill, so they didn't vote one way or another. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.640 The one who voted for it was backbencher Michael McCormack, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.440 who is the former leader of the Nationals. He was 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.279 Deputy PM under Scott Morrison for a few years and 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.200 he told AAP he didn't want to let the perfect 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.920 be the enemy of the good. Those were his words. Okay, 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.680 this didn't particularly matter in the lower House because Labor 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.400 has a huge majority as we remember from the May election, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.200 so it didn't need anyone else's support in that part 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.040 of Parliament. But then in the Senate things look different. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.600 Labor needed the support of the Coalition or a group 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.600 of independents or the Greens, or they need to basically 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:45.080 form support using different variations of the other parties in 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.279 the Senate every time they want to get something through. 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.880 Late on Tuesday night, around twenty minutes before the Hate 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.200 Speech Bill was set to come up for a vote 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.359 in the Senate, Little Proud posted a statement on x 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.560 and he said the Nationals had decided they could support 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.360 the bill. He said the Nationals wanted to move amendments 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:08.159 to quote guarantee greater protections against unintended consequences that limit 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.240 the rights and freedom of speech of everyday Australians and 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.600 the Jewish community, and he said that if their amendments 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:18.080 didn't pass, the Nationals would vote against the bill in 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.960 the Senate. So they've abstained in the House. Later that 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.040 day he's released his statement it's coming up for a vote, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.360 and then that is what they did. There are three 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.120 Nationals in the Senate, plus there's Susan McDonald who is 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:34.800 part of the Queensland Combined Liberal National Party. You probably 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.920 heard about them last we talked about the coalition because 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.960 we were saying, like, what happens now to the Combined Party? 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.080 Nothing at the state level, but at the federal level, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:48.800 some stuff happens. So Susan McDonald, Bridget McKenzie, the aforementioned 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.400 Matt Canavan and Ross Cadell voted against the bill. McDonald, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.920 McKenzie and Cadell were all members of the shadow cabinet, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.360 so this was very significant for them to vote against 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:01.840 the bill. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.760 Can you explain, Lucy, why it was so significant that 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.920 we had these senior Nationals leaders vote against the bill 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.320 and presumably against their Liberal counterparts in the Senate. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:14.920 Yeah. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.240 So when a party forms government or it forms an 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:21.800 official opposition, they set up a cabinet of ministers to 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.400 advise their leader and to manage matters of importance agriculture, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.080 like the Minister for Women, the Shadow Minister for Women, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.360 the treasurer, the shadow Treasurer. In the coalition, members of 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.560 the cabinet or the shadow cabinet are bound to vote 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:41.360 together and to not publicly disagree on party policy based 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.720 on the position they agree to behind closed doors, and 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.560 their cabinet or their shadow cabinet draws on the Liberal, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.800 the National the Liberal National, the Country Liberal parties, all 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.439 of these different small parties that make up the coalition. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.040 Okay, So while the National Party and the Liberal Party 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.959 are separate parties on their own, when they come together 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.480 as a coalition under the leadership of a shadow cabinet, 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:13.360 that shadow cabinet is meant to be aligned on all policy. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.160 Whatever goes on behind closed doors, maybe they will disagree, 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.760 have heated arguments that we don't hear about, but they 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.280 are then publicly facing and in the Parliament saying this 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:24.640 is where we're at on this. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.560 Thing, united front. This is interesting because it's different to Labor, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.040 where that rule applies to the entire party. They can 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.120 disagree on things behind closed doors, but not so much 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.160 publicly disagreeing on policy, but they have to vote together 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.720 one hundred percent of the time, unless it's a conscience 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.200 vote where they're allowed to vote based on personal beliefs. 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:49.000 Which is why you will more often see a Liberal 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.880 or National MP crossing the floor. 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.000 That's the way that it's referred to. 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.439 They may cross the floor on a piece of legislation 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.600 and vote against their party, but that is very rare for. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.559 A Yeah, and in the coalition. You really shouldn't do 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.520 that if you're in the cabinet, if you want to 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.559 keep your cabinet post. Historically, speaking now, back in May 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.959 after the federal election, Susan Lee said, one of the 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.199 issues that led to that split was that the Nationals 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.000 wanted to do away with cabinet solidarity. 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:20.240 That's what it's called. 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.560 That first split of the Nationals and Liberal Party coalition. 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:25.800 Yeah, she said at the time that this was an 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.520 issue and this was a subject of some dispute. As 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.600 you'll hear in this clip from Sarah Ferguson on the 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:37.120 ABC's seven thirty interviewing Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie again, one 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.040 of those cabinet members who voted against the bill at 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:40.480 the time. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.880 Are you saying, Susan Lee is not telling the truth 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.080 when she says one of the key issues was a 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.640 request from the Nationals that they not be obliged to 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.920 maintain shadow cabinet solidarity. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.840 So Sarah, I can tell you because I was in 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.880 the National Party party room that made this decision, the 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.480 decision which was then conveyed the Liberal leader, and that 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.520 was not part of our consideration. 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.160 Now, as that interview played, We've just received a note 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.240 from Susan Lee's office saying it is not correct to 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.960 suggest that shadow cabinet solidarity was not a sticking point, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.120 and they, that is Susan Lee's office, have that in writing. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:23.439 In the end, the Nationals did agree to cabinet solidarity 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.000 and the coalition got back together. But we see now 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.760 that the issue might have been resolved in word, but 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.200 not so much indeed in action, because these shadow cabinet 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.319 members voted against the bill and against their solidarity obligation, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.920 and all three of those who are shadow cabinet members 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.240 handed in their resignations on Wednesday. 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.840 So three National Senators who are in the shadow cabinet 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.839 vote against the Liberal Party, breaking that rule of cabinet solidarity, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.120 and as a result they hand in their resignations from 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.880 the cabinet, right, not from their roles altogether. 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.160 Yeah, not as senators, but as shadow cabinet members. 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:02.920 Yeah, okay. 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:08.280 How did opposition leader Liberal Party leader Susan Lee react 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.440 to all of this? What has she had to say 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.360 about this huge shift within her party? 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.199 In a statement on Wednesday afternoon, Lee said, quote, shadow 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.920 cabinet solidarity is not optional. It is the foundation of 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.079 serious opposition and credible government. And she outlined all those 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.480 points that I've attributed to her throughout this episode, her 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.120 version of events that she says the shadow cabinet agreed together. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.920 And she added that she had spoken to Little Proud 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.679 several times on Tuesday, the day that it was before 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.559 the Senate, to make it clear that quote, members of 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.240 the shadow cabinet could not vote against the shadow cabinet position. 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.480 So you can see Little Proud has abided by that 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.360 in abstaining not voting against but not the senor the 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:55.400 other senior Nationals. Lee accepted their resignations, and then on 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.400 Wednesday night it was reported that the Nationals were having 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.240 a crisis meeting, and later that night all of the 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.840 Nationals who were still in the shadow Cabinet all resigned 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:06.760 from the Shadow Cabinet a. 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:08.400 Total of eight Nationals MPs. 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.680 Right Lee said at the time that quote no permanent 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.880 changes will be made to the Shadow Ministry at this time, 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.200 giving the National Party time to reconsider these offers of resignation. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:23.160 And that then brings us to eight thirty am Thursday morning, 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.720 just as I walk into the office with my coffee, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.319 ready to start a day that I thought could possibly 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.439 involve a coalition split, but I wasn't one hundred percent sure, 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.199 and I turned on the office TVs to see David 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.280 Little Proud at a press conference saying the Nationals were 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.160 walking out of the coalition again. 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.280 Okay, we have obviously heard loud and clear Susan Lee's 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.720 version of events. What has David Little Proud said, as 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.520 Leader of the Nationals to explain what's gone on here? 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:54.199 How has he responded? 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.560 Yeah, he's basically outlined a kind of different version of events. 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.040 He said the Nationals had to old the Shadow Cabinet 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.679 meeting on Sunday that they supported the parts of the 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:07.560 bill that related to giving the Home Affairs Minister more 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.640 power to refuse or cancel people's visas, but that the 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.400 Nationals had quote serious reservations about the freedom of speech 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.240 and the hate organizations. We wanted to make sure that 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.480 we got the right mechanism that didn't impinge on honest 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.960 Australian's rights to speak. He said. The Nats had been 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.480 working on Monday and Tuesday on the amendments, which he 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.520 said they had flagged they wanted to do, and he 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.880 said Lee told him to let the Nationals raise those 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.600 amendments and quote if they failed, then consider voting a 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:42.880 different way. So that's Little Proud's characterization. But then Little 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.479 Proud said, when Lee said this, the House of Representatives 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.160 was on the point of voting for the bill. So 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.880 with no time left, he said he abided by his 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.360 solidarity requirement by abstaining from the vote. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.680 Okay, so the Nationals wanted amendments to the bill, there 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.960 was no time to discuss or get those amendments sorted 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.960 before it ended up being voted on in the Lower House, 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.880 and as a result, the Nationals, with this kind of 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:13.240 unresolved list of amendments, decided not to vote rather than 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:14.720 vote for or against. 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.600 Yeah, exactly because he, as a member of the Shadow Cabinet, 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.760 didn't want to break that rule. As he says that 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.160 meant that the amendments had to go in the Senate. 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.080 That's the last place that they could go. When they 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.760 did go and they failed, Little Prowd says this meant 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.440 the senators voted against the bill quote as the will 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.920 of the National Party party room. When they resigned after this, 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.920 Little Proud said he told Lee that if she accepted 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.840 their resignations, the rest of the Nationals in the shadow 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.880 cabinet would walk because it quote would not be appropriate 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.040 considering the circumstances we had. And he ended up sort 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.880 of blaming the government for the situation, calling it a 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:56.080 rushed process. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.280 Okay, we've got the leader of the NACE, David little Proud, 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.920 saying that government has pushed forward this legislation too quickly. 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.520 There hasn't been enough time for proper due diligence. These 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.320 sort of extraordinary circumstances of Parliament being recalled early in 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.200 the wake of the horrific Bondi terror attack. Then you've 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.080 got Little Proud saying that Susan Lee wanted the Nationals 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.320 to figure out these amendments and raise them. Those amendments 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.240 were raised in the Senate by the three National senators 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:28.200 who are also in shadow cabinet, the amendments fail, the 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.920 Nationals don't support the hate speech bill, and those three 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:36.600 National senators resign. Am I right in thinking Little Proud 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.680 is then upset with Susan Lee for accepting those resignations 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.280 and as a result stands in solidarity with his party 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.480 room and the entire presence of Nationals in the shadow cabinet. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.360 Resign from shadow cabinet. 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:51.840 That's basically the gist of it. 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.560 Yeah, okay, thank you, sorry, a lot of moving parts. 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:56.760 Just wanted to make sure we were on the same 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.720 page totally. What's interesting to me, Lucy, is that Susan Lee, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.159 as Opposition leader, was calling for Parliament to be recalled 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.679 urgently to deal with anti Semitism, to have legislation of 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.359 this nature tabled in the days immediately following the Bondi 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.440 terror attack. This is what we had heard from her. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.880 She wanted parliament to be recalled before Christmas. So there 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.920 has been some criticism or confusion, I suppose around the 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.199 line from both the Liberal and National parties that this 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.639 was rushed and too quick a process, when that is 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.240 what the opposition leader wanted, wasn't it. 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.879 Yeah, So, both before and after Christmas. In the first 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.640 weeks of January, Lee was saying Parliament had to come back. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.680 She was saying that as early as the seventeenth of December, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.920 with the attack having occurred on the fourteenth of December, 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.000 and in the first week of January, she said there 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:54.560 had been enough time between the attack and Christmas. She 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.440 said that was a quote fair timeline. Now Little Proud 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.240 said the Nationals would have the third Parliament come back 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:05.000 to vote on just the migration aspect of the bill, 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.720 so just the Home Affairs aspect, and divert the rest 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.399 to committees to discuss in more detail. Finally, the final 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.640 thing that he said that I think we should touch 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.640 on is he said, quote the Nationals cannot be part 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.040 of a shadow ministry under Susan Lee. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.359 So very direct and clear in his language there. Yeah, 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.040 there have been I suppose question marks around Susan Lee's 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.040 leadership ever since these cracks first emerged between the Liberal 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.240 and National Parties as a coalition. 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.160 Yeah. What has the response to all of. 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.320 This been from Susan Lee, the opposition leader and as 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.280 well as the Prime Minister Anthony Albinezi as the person 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.760 leading the legislation himself. 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.680 Yeah, so all of this was happening on the National 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.480 Day of Mourning for the victims of the bond Eyed 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.119 terror attack. Lee sent out a statement at nine am, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.280 right after Little Proud finished his presser. She said, quote, 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.560 today the folks must be on Jewish Australians, indeed all 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.320 Australians as we mourn the victims of the Bondai terrorist attack. 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.879 My responsibility as leader of the Opposition and leader of 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.760 the Liberal Party is to Australians in mourning. And at 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.800 the time of recording, we've also heard similar things from Albanezi, 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.600 who was involved in events for the day throughout all 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:21.359 of Thursday. 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.399 Okay, so both leaders there focused on the day of 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.840 Mourning on Thursday rather than discussing the ins and outs 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:31.400 of this political turmoil. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:36.200 Yes, we did hear from ex National and erstwhile National 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.600 Party leader Barnaby Joyce. He told reporters in his electorate 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:45.040 in Tamworth on Thursday that Little Proud had quote besmirched 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.159 the proper role of what is supposed to happen in 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.439 a parliament where the government puts forward legislation and the 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.720 opposition forensically goes through it. Coalition is a marriage and 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.719 this is more marriages than a weekend at the Gold Coast. 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.280 It's just not working. He added that it seemed like 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.680 a quote recruitment drive for his new party, One Nation. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.200 And this all comes, of course, hot on the heels 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.720 of One Nation. A historic result in the latest polling, 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:15.520 yes having more support amongst the Australian electorate than the 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:16.520 coalition itself. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.040 Yeah. In the News poll which is run for the 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.680 Australian they were one percent ahead of the Coalition. The 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.399 question being if the election were held tomorrow, who would 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.360 you rank number one on your ranked ballot? 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.840 So fascinating to see, Lucy. There are so many unanswered 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.280 questions in terms of what comes next, but no doubt 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.240 the conversation about Susan Lee's leadership will continue to be 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.640 debated and we'll keep a close eye on it. Thank 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.160 you for listening to today's episode. That's all we've got 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.480 time for for today's Deep Dive, but we will be 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.280 back a little later on with your evening news headlines. 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.040 Until then, have a great day. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.560 My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:03.760 Bunjelung Kalkottin from Gadigol Country. The Daily Oz acknowledges that 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.280 this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigol 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.680 people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest rate 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.639 island and nations. We pay our respects to the first 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.160 peoples of these countries, both past and present.