1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: There has been a media storm recently over endometriosis after 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: comments from a commentator to the effect that the condition 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: is made up. Well, what is endometriosis, or ENDO as 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: it's referred to. It's something that one in seven Australian 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: women suffer, including me. It's a chronic disease where tissue 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: similar to the lining of the uterus grows outside of it. 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: It causes severe pain, messes with your mental health and 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: if that's not bad enough, it can lead to infertility. 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: It's to blame for my five year pursuit of having 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: a baby. The extent of my disease not laid bare 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: until after my c section. Just minutes after the birth 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: of my now teenage daughter, my obstetrician proclaimed as I 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: lay in theater that I can see why it's taken 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 1: so long, futiful pregnant, Your endometrial system is quote a mess. Now, 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: two things from that moment for me. The first was 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: obviously a great sense of achievement and elation in having 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: finally got my baby and she was. 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: Healthy and well. And secondly, validation as to. 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: Why it took me so long to get pregnant and 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: have my baby, as I'd long suspected for more than 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: two decades that I did actually have endometriosis because as 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: a young woman in my early twenties, I visited an 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: elderly gynecologist who when I told him about my painful periods, 24 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: he rolled his eyes into the back of his head 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: when I asked if he thought maybe. 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: I should be tested for it, and so he shut 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: me down. He belittled me. 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: He made me feel neurotic and that it was all 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: in my head. So I just shut down. I was 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: an armed with knowledge that could have prepared me for 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: five years of infertility and repeated miscarriages in the pursuit 32 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: of my daughter. Takes about seven years to get an 33 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: endometriosis diagnosis. 34 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: I was let down. 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: I feel the comments that ENDO has made up reinforce 36 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: that cruel, really cruel. 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: Train of thought in society. 38 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: Now you might ask, but what does that have to 39 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: do with perimenopause and menopause. 40 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: Well, everything, because. 41 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: It's attitudes and stigma that I'm trying to shift in 42 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: this podcast, Rage against the Menopause. But it's not just 43 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: a woman's issue. It's up to all of society to 44 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: helping changing attitudes and champing women in what they go 45 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: through all of life stages, including menopause. 46 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: Menopause, It's coming for you no matter what. Let's build 47 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: a village of support. Why is it so damn hot 48 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: in here? Menopause is so hot right now? I think 49 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: them and menopause women. 50 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: Just want to feel hurt rage against the menopause. I'm 51 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: going to bring in now, doctor Brad Robinson. Here's an 52 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: obstetrician and gynecologist with special interests in the management of 53 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: menopause and fertility. 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 3: Hey Brad, Hello, Patraina. 55 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: Is it rare that I have managed to get you 56 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: at a time that you don't have a Lady Touchwood 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: currently in labor. 58 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 3: I don't speak too soon. The life of an obstetrician 59 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: is incredibly unpredictable, and I bet I think the obstetric 60 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 3: gods can hear those sort of comments. 61 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: How many babies have you delivered to date? 62 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 3: You know what? I got asked that question yesterday, and 63 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: I am embarrassed to say I've completely and utterly lost account. 64 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: It's probably north of three thousand, but I don't know. 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, So how many years have you been practicing 66 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: in obstetrics? 67 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: I started my first year working in obstetrics in at 68 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 3: the start of two thousand and six, so this is 69 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: my twentieth year. 70 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: Wow. 71 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. They say that obstetrics chooses you, you don't choose it, 72 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: or obstetrics and gynecology. I should say the profession chooses you, 73 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 3: so it's not an actor decision. 74 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: I have endometriosis and also polycystic ovarian syndrome. 75 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: My story. 76 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: I'm now in my fifties, so I can remember in 77 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: my early twenties I had to have a procedure done 78 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: and I did mention to the elderly gynecologist that did 79 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: the procedure. Do you think possibly I'm hearing this thing 80 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: about this thing called endometriosis? Do you think it's possible 81 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: that you know? 82 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: I don't. 83 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: I can't measure my pain each month compared to say 84 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: my best friends because not in her body, but to me, 85 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: it's quite crippling. Do you think it's a possibility. Is 86 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: there any way that we can investigate it? I'm not 87 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: kidding you, Brad. He sat opposite me and my boyfriend 88 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: at the time who is now my husband, and looked 89 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: at me with glazed over eyes and literally rolled his 90 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: eyes into the back of his head and so do 91 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: you know what that did to to me? That shut 92 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: me down, made me feel neurotic on her, and so 93 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: fast forward a really long time. So I wasn't we 94 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: weren't armed with information, right, So we started to try 95 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: and have a family from about the age of thirty four, 96 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: had repeated miscarriages, about five miscarriages before. 97 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: We finally got our Audrey. 98 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: Now, had have I known that, yes it is endo, 99 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: we probably would have changed tact and maybe tried a 100 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: bit earlier. So, yeah, she's our miracle child, but we've 101 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: only been able to have one. But goodness knows what 102 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 1: could have happened had have we started a bit earlier. 103 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: And you know, Brad, I had a wonderful obstetrician who 104 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're aware of here in Melbourne, in Lionel Steinberg, 105 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: who was absolutely fabulous. And it wasn't until the very 106 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: day I had my C section with Audrey that I 107 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: also had assist in there and he said, look, when 108 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: we open you up, we'll get that fixed, and I thought. 109 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, gift with purchase. 110 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: Anyway, I literally was on the table and he said, oh, 111 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: he said, I don't think I'm going to go near that. 112 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: He said, you have very bad endo. He's a Petrina 113 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: your I'm getting very personal here, but this is what 114 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: this podcast is about. We're being authentic here. Your fallopian 115 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: tube is like a tree stump. It's wrapped, it's right 116 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: wrapped around your system. It's a mess. 117 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: I don't know how to hear you say that. 118 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 3: Yep, yep, and you know. 119 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: What it was. 120 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: So I had this elation of this beautiful, healthy baby, 121 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: six weeks early but strong as an ox. 122 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 2: We finally had got our baby. 123 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: And also validation of oh my goodness, all those years 124 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: ago where I was made almost belittled really and made 125 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: feel like a neurotic woman of actually, yeah, you were 126 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: onto something. It's important, isn't it that women feel hurt? 127 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 3: Oh, it's crucial. I'm so sorry to hear that story. 128 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 3: And I'm also really embarrassed to say to you, Pats 129 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 3: that I'm still hearing stories like that today. Now hopefully 130 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 3: they're not as frequent ocurrence, and hopefully they're not as 131 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 3: demonstrably directed as that individual executed is to you, but 132 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: they're still occurring, and even when they're subtle, it's still 133 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: an insult. And I mean, I had a lady yesterday 134 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: that had had a long history of significant mental dysfunction. 135 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: She was thirty five and I hadn't met her before, 136 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 3: but she came in, I read her referral, I spoke 137 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: to her, and it was really clear immediately that she 138 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 3: required treatment, and I thought it was all very straightforward. 139 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: But at the end of the consultation, she stopped and 140 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 3: turned to me and said, look, I wanted to say 141 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 3: thank you because I actually came in here fore armed 142 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: with all of my arguments executed in my head, ready 143 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: for when you turned me down on my requests. And 144 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: I was really I mean, I was flat and obviously 145 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: to hear the appreciation, but it was so upsetting to 146 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 3: understand and to hear directly that these women, women are 147 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 3: having these sorts of thoughts privticing health professionals still in 148 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. 149 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, Brad, this is what I'm 150 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: trying to overcome with this podcast series. Is the same 151 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: for perimenopause and menopause. We're hearing a lot of women 152 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,559 Speaker 1: going to their GPS and they're getting given antidepressants, which 153 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: maybe some of them do need, but they're not necessarily depressed. 154 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: They're just being misdiagnosed. 155 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: I mean, but can you imagine if the menopause was 156 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: an event that occurred to men, No, I can't different 157 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: things would be. It would be extraordinarily different. Women wouldn't 158 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 3: be gasolic, they wouldn't be turned away, they wouldn't be 159 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: told it's not really you have depression. Take these. I mean, 160 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: I shouldn't laugh at it is just awful. 161 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: It's so victorian in its attitude, like we're so far. 162 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: I mean, women are hysterical, right, they have history from their. 163 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: Ups for more responsibility? Do you think role models you know, 164 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: on film, wherever, in the community, what sort of responsibility 165 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: do you think role models in our community have in 166 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: the conversation about endometriosis and community perceptions. 167 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 3: Look, I think people that have a platform and good 168 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: intentions have a responsibility to use that platform and those 169 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: intentions feel good. I mean, we're not Spider Man, but 170 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: we don't have a whole. With great power comes great responsibility. 171 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 3: But I mean people that are role models need to 172 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: speak up. And the reason for that is there's clear 173 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 3: evidence that particularly men, supporting women with endometriosis actually leads 174 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: to a reduction in what is still a prolonged delay 175 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: between onset of symptoms and diagnosis. So something is simple 176 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: as a partner supporting and advocating for his girlfriend, wife, whatever, 177 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 3: sister can actually lead to improved outcomes. So that's just 178 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 3: one really simple but clear demonstration of why it's important. 179 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 3: I am just a medical profession I'm not a role model, 180 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: but I was completely shocked that when I did my 181 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: little ill thought out, well sorry, my little Instagram post 182 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 3: that I didn't really give much thought to, at the 183 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: way in which there was just this outpouring of frustration 184 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 3: and anger and grief from women that I think even 185 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 3: I didn't understand existed. So I think that outpouring told 186 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: a story about the way in which society needs to 187 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: continue to shift the needle towards stepping up speaking out 188 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 3: for conditions such as endometriosis that affect women. And you 189 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 3: know what, perhaps on that post, which it's the only 190 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 3: time in my life I've ever as they said, the 191 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: cool kids say, went viral, but there were I think 192 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: amongst the thousands and thousands of comments from women, I 193 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 3: think there were four or five negative comments that had 194 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: a cracking me And you'd be shocked to hear that 195 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: they were all men. 196 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's sparing me on with this series as well, 197 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: is that. And it's proved to me and it's validation 198 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: again that word to me that women do want to 199 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: be heard. There's a thirst for it, they need it, 200 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: and I think we're moving in the right direction. As 201 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: a specialist, do you think training for GPS as a 202 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: first point of call for women who perhaps might fear 203 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: they have ENDO or going through perimenopause? 204 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: Is it adequate? 205 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: Very good question, Pats. You're really getting to the nub 206 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: of all this, and that is the front line of 207 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: our healthcare system in Australia are GPS. So if a 208 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: GP is getting something wrong, then that's going to have 209 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: a demnstromly negative effect on a patient. There is has 210 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: been a history of mental dysfunction not being taken seriously 211 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: by primary healthcare providers in Australia, GPS and also specialists 212 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 3: with that attitude of oh, come on, love, it's just 213 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 3: your period. Periods are meant to be painful. Now, I've 214 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 3: got to say I should start by saying I've got 215 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 3: enormous respect to the job that GPS do. They have 216 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 3: to know something about everything, as opposed to me, where 217 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: I just operate within a a more refined space of knowledge. 218 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 3: They've got considerable time pressures there. I know it's not 219 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,359 Speaker 3: cool to say that the doctor's poorly remunerated, but gps, 220 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 3: relatively to their training and their commitment, are poorly remunerated. 221 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: I do think, however, pert that things are getting better. 222 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 3: I'm getting more exposed to the new not necessarily younger, 223 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: but that the gps that have been trained more recently 224 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 3: that certainly do have greater empathy and understanding for these issues. 225 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 3: I think that's probably, in some respect a reflection of 226 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 3: the way society hopefully is starting to move. So I 227 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 3: actually feel quite comfortable and encouraged by what I'm seeing 228 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: on the front lines. Now. 229 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a new generation. 230 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: Of course, it's like that new generation is coming through 231 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: that recent Senate inquiry into menopause, for example. 232 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 3: Yes, they actually visited our rooms. Really, Yeah, they came 233 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 3: here because we have a specialist menopause center within the 234 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 3: confines of our practice. 235 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 2: Well, that's one that's so forward, that's awesome. 236 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: I was shocked by one of those recommendations or what 237 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: came out of that inquiry is that, you know, medical 238 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: students really only get sixty minutes an hour of training 239 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: in their hole? 240 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: What is it? 241 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: Sixty course on the menopause, which is just wow, you 242 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: know what? 243 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 3: I had not considered that, But I'm actually struggling to 244 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 3: think whether I had any teacher on that when I 245 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 3: went through mine. I actually can't recall having any formal 246 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: structured training on the metopause. Maybe it was mentioned, but 247 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 3: there certainly was nothing in any detail. 248 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: Where are we at with treatment? 249 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: I know each case is so so individual, Brad, but 250 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: what sort of advances are being made in treatment for endometriosis? 251 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: Well, Pats, you know, you know as well as I 252 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 3: do that. Unfortunately, society is very patriarchal. Still, medicine has 253 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: been extremely patriarchal when it comes to research into women's 254 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: health conditions. When review it has been too complicated because 255 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: of hormonal fluctuations. So research historically haven't been done into 256 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: women's conditions. So that's the roadblock or the handbrake that 257 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 3: we've got. But now things are starting to change a bit. 258 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: There is now more research being done into conditions such 259 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: as endometriosis, so medicine is effectively scrammed. 260 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: Now. 261 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 3: The old approach always was surgery, and you know in 262 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: my time in practice, I've seen the way in which 263 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 3: gynecologists have had women with and have operated and then 264 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: have patronizingly effectively pattered them on the head. I've done 265 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 3: your surgery, You're cured to be Later. Now we've got 266 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: a far greater understanding, thankfully, of the completely multidisciplinary approach 267 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 3: that needs to be taken, from surgery to hormonal therapy, 268 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: to pelvic four physiotherapy, to psychology, to pain specialist pain management, 269 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: to dietary modifications to gut health, to this whole range 270 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 3: of measures that need to be considered in the context 271 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: of an individual case so you can best figure out 272 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 3: what can help your patient. That old approach of just 273 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 3: surgery is for the Yeah, but look, the government also 274 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 3: perhaps really needs to keep up, and there's some evidence 275 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 3: that that is happening. There's just recently the government announced 276 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 3: that a new hormonal medication called slender Up from the 277 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: first of May is hitting the PBS, which brings the 278 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 3: cost down for what can be in my experience to 279 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: a really effective treatment for endometriosis symptom control. But they're 280 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 3: still in a long way to go. 281 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's the start. 282 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: Can can you tell me Brad how is the perry 283 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: or menopause experience, if at all, any different for women 284 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: like me with endometriosis. 285 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 3: You know what my first thought thereous parts is is 286 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: the way that it's different is for ladies that have 287 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 3: already been subjected to the battles that you have, or 288 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 3: women like you have. You'd get to the menopause then 289 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 3: and be confronted with new issues and you think blood. 290 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: That's exactly what I thought. In my first series Brad, 291 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: I said that, you know, lifetime of endometriosis pcos I 292 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: had kidneying cancer ten years ago, which is totally unrelated obviously, 293 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: but I got to I got to perimenopause, and I 294 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: did stop and ask myself, do you mean to say now? 295 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: You know, I felt like I'd run this marathon and 296 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: it's like, now you've got to do a double you know, 297 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: another marathon that's twice as long. 298 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: It's like you back again. Are you serious? 299 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? 300 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, why yes, But it's exactly it's so true what 301 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: you're saying. 302 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Look of the One of the things that 303 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 3: we're getting a greater recognition of now, which is quite 304 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: interesting that certainly entered my consciousness more in recent years, 305 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 3: is that women that have suffered from significant endometriosis generally 306 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 3: then into menopause. They're treatment regiments for menopause symptoms can 307 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: be and should be potentially different. So I should start 308 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: this conversation perhaps by saying, I advocate for a low 309 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 3: threshold for treatment for menopause or symptoms. I think menopause 310 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: or hormone therapy MHT is grossly underrated. It's women have 311 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: been scared off due to the Women's Health Initiative trial 312 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: back in the early two thousands and the alleged links 313 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 3: to a whole range of medical conditions that just with 314 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 3: time haven't been proven to be anywhere near as significant 315 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 3: as they would represented to be. So it's certainly undertreated. 316 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: So I would say to any woman that has concerns 317 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 3: about menopause or symptoms, please go on CEEGP and start 318 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 3: a conversation about it, because I have no doubt your 319 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 3: life can be made better. But it does get more 320 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 3: complicated if you've had a history of significant dmetrilitians and 321 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 3: a woman's had, for instance, a hysterectomy as part of 322 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 3: her surgical journey, then for menopause hormone therapy, if a 323 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: woman's had a hysterectomy, she typically just is given estrogen supplementation. 324 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: But if you're giving just the estrogen supplementation and you've 325 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 3: had endometriosis and you're now menopausal, there's an understanding that 326 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: that endometri that estrogen could retrigger endometrious edmetriosis regrowth. So 327 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: now for those women that don't have a uterus, we're 328 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 3: putting those women more back on combination therapy to try 329 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: and ameliorate that. 330 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, it's it really, it's not a one size 331 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: fits all. It each case is so specialized, isn't it. 332 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the more we learn, the more the more 333 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: we realize we don't know. 334 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, if those women listening and they need help, they 335 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: need more information, what would you recommend? 336 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: Just their local GP. Hopefully they've got a good one. 337 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 3: Honestly, I would go even to a bit of looking 338 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 3: around to see if you can find a GP that 339 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 3: has an interest in those issues. So it it's endometriosis, 340 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 3: parentneal disease, that or menopause, look for it online and 341 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 3: find your GP that aligns with those conditions, and then 342 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: make an assessments to whether you're feeling heard and whether 343 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: you're feeling understood, and if you have concerns, I would say, 344 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 3: ask for a referral to a gynecologist if you're in 345 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: a position to be able to do that financially of course, 346 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 3: or ask for a referral to a gynecology clinic, and 347 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 3: just make sure that you're heard that you advocate for yourself. 348 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: I also hate too many stories of women that are told, look, 349 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: I'm not doing a referral for you because you don't 350 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: need it. Well, if a person wants a referral, they're 351 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 3: a title to it. 352 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: I think you hit the nail right on the head 353 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: when you said the word advocate and advocate for yourself. 354 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: You shouldn't have to, but the fact is sometimes you do, 355 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: and if you're coming out not feeling satisfied, get a 356 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: second opinion. 357 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I mean, what did you say, perhaps the 358 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: delay between that gentleman role in his eye. 359 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: Well, I was in my early twenties, I recgonized, probably 360 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: about twenty two. I had Audrey at thirty nine. 361 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that I mean that potentially impacted the course 362 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 3: of your life. 363 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 2: Totally, absolutely did. 364 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: And you know, really it's had a massive impact because 365 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: while she is such a blessing and is the child 366 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: that a lot of specialists said we would never get. 367 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: So I'm always thankful of what I have. More than thankful. 368 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: She's just, you know, she's our whole world. We also 369 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: never really set out just to have one child. 370 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 2: We ideally would have liked two or three. 371 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: But of course, you know, again, you're thankful with all 372 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: my history that we got her in the end. 373 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, if. 374 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: We were I think knowledge is power and hawd have 375 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: we known that, we certainly would have started trying a 376 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: bit earlier, because you know, you try all those years 377 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: not to get pregnant, and then when you want to 378 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: get pregnant, are you not exactly. 379 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: Sure how long it's going to take her if it's 380 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: going to work. 381 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's just my experience, and I hope by 382 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: sharing what I went through that you know that younger 383 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: generation perhaps we'll learn something from it and take inspiration 384 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: and it might help their journey along the way. 385 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 3: It certainly kind of her parts. It's these conversations have 386 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: had more commonly than less, people are going to be affected, 387 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 3: affected in the way that you will. 388 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, doctor Brad, you are an absolute superstar. 389 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 3: Hey, can I say to your perhaps yes, I'm taking 390 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: a tangent here. I said to my wife last night, 391 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: I'm doing this amazing podcast tomorrow. She said, who's it worth? 392 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 3: And I said I was with the trainer that and 393 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 3: she looked at me and she said not not Patty 394 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 3: from the Christian I Iconno. Yeah, So my wife and 395 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 3: my three kids on the I've just cool it very 396 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 3: commonly listened to your show and my wife was apoplectic 397 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 3: that I was talking to you this morning. 398 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: Oh you honestly, I've got goose bumps after you saying 399 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: that what's your wife's name? 400 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 3: My wife is a bit of a BOC grade Bristain 401 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 3: celebrity called Rebecca Sparrow. He does a lot of work 402 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 3: in parenting. 403 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: She is not C grade and she is a writer 404 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: and columbist. She is no look, that is just may 405 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: my day. 406 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, thank you lovely talking to you. 407 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Brad Robinson. He's a specialist obstetrician kindecologist. He joined 408 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: me from his popular practice in Brisbane. He's a respected 409 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: media commentator with regular appearances on radio as well as 410 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: print and online media and now on Rage against the Menopause. 411 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: I really loved our chat and if you or someone 412 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: you know suffers from indo endometriosis Australia has a brilliant 413 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: website for support. My guest in episode four is a 414 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: household name and someone I've always deeply admired. TV and 415 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: radio presenter Bridget Declo. Bridgie is a former colleague and 416 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: seriously one of the most divine women I know. She's 417 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: added qualified counselor to her list of achievements and she 418 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: joins me next on the couch. 419 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 2: I'm Petrina Jones. Rage Against the Menopause.