1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Now let's head across right now because joining me on 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: the line is the Deputy Opposition leader Jared Maylee. Good 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: morning to you, Jared. 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, Good morning with move mate. 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: Lots to cover off on this morning. We know that 6 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: the IKAC Commissioner has released a report into the twenty 7 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: twenty election and the travel that was undertaken in the 8 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: weeks leading into the election. There's been no adverse findings. 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that that travel passes the pub test? 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: No, look, it certainly doesn't, Kay. But before you go, 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: I just want to heard that story about that lady 12 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: getting a feel paid for. That is what the charity 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: is all about. In my view, Having people do that, 14 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: it's a show that we've gotten a great community spirit. 15 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: And are will donder that bloke who paid that money 16 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: and shake your hand. 17 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: I agree, what a good man. You know, it's hard, 18 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: it's hard out there sometimes and we're all sort of 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: struggling through with cost of living. And I don't know 20 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: what happened in Sonya's case, but you know she was 21 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: trying to sort things out. While she was trying to 22 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: sort things out, this bloke's paid for her. What a 23 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: good fella. And I do hope that they're. 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: Good and we've got some good people in the territory 25 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: and it shows that, it shows that they're still alive 26 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: and kicking, and hopefully we can get more of that 27 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,919 Speaker 2: as we move forward. Yeah, in this world, I totally agree. 28 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: I totally agree. Now, Jared, let me ask you in 29 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: terms of this IKAK report, what did you make of it? 30 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: Does it pass the pub test? No? 31 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: Look, Katie, it doesn't pass the pub test. It didn't 32 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: back into twenty twenty, and it certainly doesn't do that now. 33 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: You know, this is a clear example in my view, 34 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 2: of Michael Gunner going out using the public tax payer 35 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: money on voting day, remember on voting day in those communities, 36 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: and it just clearly doesn't pass the pub test. And 37 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: remember the ICIC he didn't make findings either way. He 38 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: didn't He couldn't find that he did or did not 39 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: engage in proper conduct. So it's not say, oh, it's 40 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: all good, is no findings against him. The IKAKS report 41 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: says that he made no findings that he did or 42 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: did not engage, So we don't know, and clearly it 43 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: doesn't pass the pub test in my view. 44 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: So do you think that there needs to be some 45 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: serious changes to the rules so we don't have a situation, 46 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: no matter which government, no matter what political stripes, that 47 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: we do not have a situation where politicians are traveling 48 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: out to different electorates, to remote communities on polling day 49 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: to meet in adverted commas with those electorates. 50 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, the Ministerial Code Conduct has already been upgraded 51 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: just this year in relation to i'd say in these 52 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: findings because you know they probably went out there, but 53 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure they're on the mind of what's happening. There's 54 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: already been upgrade to strengthen those rules about what is 55 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: public for political transpaigning and that sort of stuff. So 56 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: there's already been upgrade in that because ultimately the government's 57 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: there to govern for the territory, not to campaign for 58 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: political party. 59 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing. And like I said, I 60 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: don't think it matters which political party you're talking about, 61 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: but the independence of the Greens, the opposition, whoever it 62 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: is of the day, don't have the ability to go 63 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: out there to those communities on the taxpayer's time, as 64 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: I understand it. So surely it is an unfair advantage 65 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: to ever to whoever is in power on that day. 66 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 2: Certainly an unfair advantage and we need to make sure 67 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: the rules are fair the government that governing for Territorians 68 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: and parties are about campaigning to get their candidates elected 69 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: into parliament, so we need to make sure there is 70 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: a clear distinction between that. And ultimately this really doesn't 71 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: pass the pup test and even happened in twenty twenty. 72 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: Michael Gunn is gone now, but it just doesn't pass 73 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 2: the top test, and it didn't back then, and again 74 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: it doesn't right now. Now. 75 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: I know that there has been some recommendations made, you know, 76 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: they vary, and I'll read all of those out throughout 77 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: the morning. But Jared, does the COLP believe that there 78 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: needs to actually be stronger rules in place so that 79 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: this kind of thing cannot happen again? 80 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: Yes, there certainly needs to be some rules in place 81 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: because we need to make sure that we haven't open 82 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: and transparent government. And remember the Labor government brought out 83 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: a little document back in twenty sixteenth saying that we're 84 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: going to be open and transparent, and clearly they're not 85 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: and they haven't been, and we need to make sure 86 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: that we rebuild that trust in the government, because ultimately 87 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: the government of the day need to govern for territorians 88 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: and not governed for themselves. 89 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: So like, what would you propose that does happen that 90 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: you're not allowed to travel on the taxpayer's dime, or 91 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: that there's a certain amount of money that's maybe able 92 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: to be utilized to go out to different electorates for 93 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: all political parties. 94 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: Well, it's all about the timing these Michael Gunner, and 95 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: they went out on these three separate occasions on voting 96 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: day when that prepolling occurred in those electorates. So ultimately 97 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: there still needs to be a care taker mode and 98 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: we know that, and people do travel there, but you 99 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: can't have people traveling out to a remote community on 100 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: polling day and say it's not it's a ministerial travel. 101 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: Clearly that doesn't pass the pub dest And we need 102 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: to make sure the rules are clear that if there's campaigning, 103 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: it needs to be paid for by the party, and 104 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: if there's government legitimate government work, well then it can 105 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,239 Speaker 2: go through through the taxpayer. But there's a clear life 106 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: then that needs to be drawn to make sure it 107 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: doesn't get crossed. 108 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I just do not think that it passes 109 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: the pub test to be going out to remote communities 110 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: or you know, to be using taxpayers doing polling day. Yeah, 111 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: that's well, this is the thing. Like to me, it 112 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: doesn't pass the pub test. I don't care who is 113 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: in power, it does not pass the pub test. But Jared, realistically, 114 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: the KA Commissioners, you know, like has said that there's 115 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: no adverse findings against Michael Gunner. What do you make 116 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: of that? 117 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: Well, Helen had there's no adverse findings against him. He 118 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: said he didn't make any findings, and it says he did. 119 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: He couldn't find he did or did not make, So 120 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 2: there's no he didn't make any findings at all. So 121 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: have you thrown the word no adverse findings against him? 122 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: That's not what the IK report says. It just says 123 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: I have made and I read it out to you, 124 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: I have not made findings that he did or did 125 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: not engage in proper conduct. 126 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: All right. 127 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: It was a very neutral response. 128 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I thought it said that the report had 129 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: found no adverse findings against the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner 130 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: or the Labor Party despite that using of the taxpayer funds. 131 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: But I'm happy, I'm happy to be corrected. 132 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: No, no, I can read it. There's only short paragraphs 133 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 2: and this is what it says. This is that paragraph 134 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: sixty seven. Who wants to read the report before proceeding further, 135 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 2: It is appropriate to note that I have not made 136 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: any findings in respect of mister Gunner. That is, I 137 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: have not made finding that he did or did not 138 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 2: engage in proper conduct. 139 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: So what do you think that means? I mean, like, 140 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, without I'm not like not trying to criticize 141 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: the K Commissioner, but it sounds like sitting on the fence. 142 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: Well. Look, ultimately, there's a lot of information in this 143 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: KaiC report, and rules have changed since then. But it 144 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: seems to be for my reading of the report, and 145 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 2: remember it wasn't handed down to a very late last night, 146 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 2: and certainly people with smarter minds in mine are going 147 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: to go through this in word by word and interpret it. 148 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: But it seems to be that there may be some 149 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 2: definitions need to be cleared made stronger, so we know 150 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: what is political work and what is campaign work. 151 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I agree, and I know that the K 152 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: Commissioner has got a second report coming out as well, 153 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: is what I understand. So no doubt, will all be 154 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: care be an eye in this space. Hey, before we 155 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: wrap up this morning, we did actually ask you on 156 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: because I know that there was some questions asked yesterday 157 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: in Parliament of the Deputy Chief Minister Chancey Paike about 158 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: the Darwin Correctional facility that riot back in twenty twenty 159 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: and how much the damage cost, like how much needed 160 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: to be well, how much it cost to fix and 161 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: the insurance reimbursement. Was there any information gleaned? 162 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: Well, not really, Katie. Chancey just skirted around and didn't 163 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: answer the question like he normally does. But the facts 164 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: that there was a riote in back in twenty twenty 165 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: and the intimate damage bill was about forty million dollars 166 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: that from my understanding is hasn't been repaired yet and 167 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: it's still not actually operational that particular building that was burnt. 168 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: What we did find out was that there was about 169 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: a ten million dollar payment into the budget and we 170 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: asked if that was insurance. So what we were trying 171 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: to work out was did the insurance get ten million 172 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: dollars paid for the repairs and the repairs actually cost 173 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: forty million dollars, which means that the tax you know, 174 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: the territory mums the dad are going to stump up 175 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: thirty million dollars for this labor failure. 176 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: And so what no like, no real answers provided. 177 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: No rel aanswers provided. He just skirted around and you 178 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: know who wouldn't give us any detail because he knows 179 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: what that the taxpayer. We've got to pay for their mistakes. 180 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Data dumped this up. They've spent you know, forty million 181 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: and that was this is four years ago and it 182 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: still hasn't been repaired and they aren't going to get 183 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: an insurance built by the themes of about ten million dollars. 184 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: So the taxpayer's got to pay thirty million dollars for 185 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: our labour's failure. 186 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: And look, I did catch up with the corrections commission 187 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: of Matthew Valley a couple of weeks back. My understanding 188 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: is that it is very near to completion and being 189 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: back operational again and it hasn't sort of impacted their 190 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: day to day operations too badly, is my understanding. However, 191 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: this again, it is taxpayers money. We've got to make 192 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: sure that we are not using taxpayers money like its 193 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: monopoly money. At the end of the day, we are 194 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: eleven billion dollars in debt, so we've got to get 195 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: a bit smarter about the way in which things are 196 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: being spent. Hey, before I let you go, though, I 197 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: do want to ask about this, this review into our 198 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: ambulance services. So basically the Northern Territory government set to 199 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: undertake a third review into the ambulance services as cost 200 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: blowouts continue to plague the health system. What do you 201 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: make of this? 202 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: Well, look, ultimately this is the third review by the 203 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: global government. And remember the Labor government cut Saint John's 204 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: funding in twenty two to twenty three by about eight 205 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars. So and really this goes back to 206 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: the Labour's failure in relation to dealing with crime because 207 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: the ambulance there, paramedics are completely under the pumping relation 208 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: to work. They're getting assaulted at work, they're dealing with 209 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 2: drunken violence, they're dealing with people who are injured from 210 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: drunken violence. That dealing with people who injured from crime. 211 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: So it goes back even further that this is a 212 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: classic example of how the label government failure to deal 213 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: with crime has impacted on people who aren't even because 214 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: of crime they're impacted on people like ambo. They're out 215 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: just trying to do their job and deserve to go 216 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: home safely, but they're getting assaulted at work. 217 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: Well, Jared Mailie, we are going to have to leave it. 218 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: They're good to speak with you this morning. I appreciate 219 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: your time. 220 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: Hurry, Thank you, Kay, thank you,