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Speaker 1: Jam mission with Jones and Amanda.

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Speaker 2: Anne's guest is someone we love very much, warm, funny,

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Speaker 2: talented media personality who's finally put pen to paper to

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Speaker 2: document her incredible life and career to date. And she

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Speaker 2: certainly has people talking. After a thousand million headlines, we

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Speaker 2: thought we'd call the woman of the hour herself, Lisa Wilkinson.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Amanda Hey Jones, Hello, Lisa. How are you going? Okay?

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Speaker 1: I'm great because I'm talking to you too. You know

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Speaker 1: how much love there is in the room for you too,

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Speaker 1: And it all comes from me.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've just been reading the paper.

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Speaker 4: There's just been these stories like there's just this pile

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Speaker 4: on you, and there's all stories about emissions from the

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Speaker 4: book and things like that. And she said this, and

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Speaker 4: he said that, although I will say this, Peter fitz

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Speaker 4: Simon's I don't know if you know him.

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Speaker 3: He's some sort of writer. But he was telling me

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Speaker 3: that he.

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Speaker 4: Edited your book and he cut out the bit which

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Speaker 4: features me in your book.

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Speaker 5: I was very sad. There was a lovely piece in

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Speaker 5: there in Lisa's manuscript about Brendan Jones and we had

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Speaker 5: to find you know how much he loved Brendan Jones

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Speaker 5: about what was it about seventeen years ago when they

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Speaker 5: were trialing together for some show yep, and I personally

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Speaker 5: had to take the scissors to it. And I'm sorry, Brendan,

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Speaker 5: but that just ended up on the cutting room.

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Speaker 3: What did you cut it out?

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Speaker 5: Why? Because we had to save two or three hundred words,

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Speaker 5: and I said, Brendan's going to have to take one

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Speaker 5: for the team. So she had this big thing about

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Speaker 5: this charismatic bloke that wrote it a motorbike. She and

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Speaker 5: Lisa and Lisa and he had this wonderful chemistry and

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Speaker 5: they really got on well. But poor old Brenda, and

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Speaker 5: I said, Darling, let me do it. So I just

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Speaker 5: you know, I highlighted Carl instead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what he should have done.

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Speaker 4: And so you know that, because that's I would just say,

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Speaker 4: this the story of you and me, the history. I

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Speaker 4: know Pete was threatened, but that's in my book, which

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Speaker 4: is available at book Tapia just in time for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Just saying I cannot tell you how bad I felt

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Speaker 1: when Pete told me he had done that, because when

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Speaker 1: I originally agreed to write my book, which was way

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Speaker 1: back in twenty fourteen, I was incredibly intimidated by the

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Speaker 1: fact that I am married to an author who's the

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Speaker 1: country's best selling nonfiction author. And I said to Pete

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Speaker 1: at the time I signed, this is crazy. I'm not

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Speaker 1: an author. I can write a thousand word piece, you know.

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Speaker 1: I can host a TV show, I can do stuff

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Speaker 1: with words, but I can't do something, you know, as

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Speaker 1: much as one hundred thousand words. And he said to me,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, You'll be absolutely fine. Look, I know how

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Speaker 1: to do this stuff. What you can do is I'll

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Speaker 1: sit down interview you. We'll get it all on tape.

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Speaker 1: I'll put down a rough bed of a book, and

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Speaker 1: then you come in over the top and you can

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Speaker 1: write all the stuff that I don't know, and you'll

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Speaker 1: fill in all a game and it'll be fine. One

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand words, no problem. So we sat down, we

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Speaker 1: did probably about six hours worth of interviews, and I

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Speaker 1: said to him a week afterwards, what happened to those tapes?

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Speaker 1: We really need to transcribe those, so you know you

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Speaker 1: can you can help me get a start on his book.

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Speaker 1: And he said, I don't where I got it sorted anyway.

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Speaker 1: I asked him three times over the space of the

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Speaker 1: next three months. And after three months, I said to him,

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Speaker 1: where are those tapes? And you just looked at me blank.

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Speaker 1: You've lost them, haven't you, bugger? And he had lost them.

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Speaker 1: And what I realized at that point that murder, I

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Speaker 1: know you will relate to this. What I realized was

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Speaker 1: that if Pete was going to help me write this book,

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Speaker 1: I would have to every time I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: some work on it, or for him to do some

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Speaker 1: work on it. As his wife, I was going to

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Speaker 1: have to come cap in hand begging him to push

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Speaker 1: aside whatever he was working on in order to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I just sat down one day and thought, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I'm just going to have to start writing

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Speaker 1: this to cut a very long story short. In May

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Speaker 1: of this year, I had written one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: seven thousand words and the middle said to me, we

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Speaker 1: need to do some cutting, and Pete got in there.

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Speaker 1: And that was when Jonesy fell on his sword without

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Speaker 1: even realizing it. So at least it was painless.

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Speaker 4: Jones, Well, that was It just means that we don't

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Speaker 4: have to have Pete on our show anymore, because I've

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Speaker 4: a duel. That's my Beach's not with you Lisa, it's

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Speaker 4: your husband, that's But.

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Speaker 1: Can I say, Jonesy, the reason you were in the

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Speaker 1: book was for very good reason. When you and I

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Speaker 1: tested to co host a morning show on Channel seven

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Speaker 1: back in the year two thousand, I fell in love

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Speaker 1: with you and that love has remained. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that your second wife is a man Keller just fills

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Speaker 1: me with joy every single day because it's got a

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Speaker 1: hair And Lisa, if I was going to be able

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Speaker 1: to throw for anyone, I'm so sill with Amanda.

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Speaker 2: Well, Lisa, I know that this would have been a

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Speaker 2: hard book for a lot of reasons to write, and

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Speaker 2: you knew there'd be interest in the way you left

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Speaker 2: Channel nine, But have you been surprised by the frenzy

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Speaker 2: around it.

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Speaker 1: I've been disappointed by the complete fantasy that's been the

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Speaker 1: subject of so many headlines recently, all of which I've

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Speaker 1: responded to. And I hope people can see what was

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Speaker 1: actually going on there. And I mean the truth is,

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Speaker 1: everyone who has now read the book has said how

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Speaker 1: generous I have been to Channel nine and to Carl,

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Speaker 1: but that they can see now after reading the whole book,

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened, what led to it, and the fact

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Speaker 1: that my life is so much more than the ten

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Speaker 1: years that I spent at Channel nine. That's why it

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Speaker 1: got trenmed down to one hundred and seventy thousand words,

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Speaker 1: because I've been on the planet for a very long time,

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Speaker 1: and I've lived through an extraordinary time for women, the

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Speaker 1: amount of change that's happened for women over that period

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Speaker 1: of time, you know, right up until this year, when

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Speaker 1: I had the extraordinary privilege of helping Britney Higgins tell

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Speaker 1: her story. And I hope that in the telling of

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Speaker 1: my story, there's a greater understanding of the sort of

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Speaker 1: lives that women have been leading for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and the reason why so many women are wanting to

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Speaker 1: tell their stories now too.

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Speaker 2: Well, you said that you're inspired by Britney to tell

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Speaker 2: of an incident that happened to you when you're a

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Speaker 2: teenager at the hand of a father of a friend.

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Speaker 2: In choosing to tell that, that's a big can of worm,

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Speaker 2: isn't it. That must have been so hard to tell

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Speaker 2: you so that your friend found out all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I only told her shortly before the book was released,

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Speaker 1: because the last thing I wanted was for her to

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Speaker 1: sit with that for months on end, there was no

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Speaker 1: way that I was going to be able to After

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Speaker 1: the year that we've all had with Brittany and Grace came.

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Speaker 1: There was no way that I could not tell that

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Speaker 1: story but for my friend to have to face what

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Speaker 1: she's had to face in me going public with it,

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Speaker 1: and I haven't used I've changed the name of my

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Speaker 1: friend so that it's not possible for it to be traced.

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Speaker 1: And when I told her exactly what had happened, the

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Speaker 1: first thing she did was apology. And what survivors of

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Speaker 1: sexual assault never want to hear from family members who

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Speaker 1: had no clue of someone that they might have been

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Speaker 1: related to who was capable of such acts. It's no

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Speaker 1: one's job to apologize by the person who did it,

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Speaker 1: now that that man is no longer with us, And

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Speaker 1: and I've I've made as much peace as any survivor

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault can make with an episode like that,

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Speaker 1: But it's also motivated me for a long time to

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Speaker 1: make sure that those stories. You know, when a when

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Speaker 1: a survivor is ready to talk, it's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a very clearing thing to speak about it publicly, because

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Speaker 1: that's it's only then that you realize how widespread this

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Speaker 1: problem is. And you know, even at this early stage

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Speaker 1: of the book going on sale, I'm being inundated with messages,

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Speaker 1: and since I've started talking about it publicly, it's everywhere.

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Speaker 1: And I look to the future for women and men

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Speaker 1: who are survivors of sexual assault, and I see, you know,

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Speaker 1: the incredible courage of Britney, the incredible courage of Grace Tame,

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Speaker 1: and I see a wonderful future where this will no

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Speaker 1: longer be hidden and perpetrators just will realize that they

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Speaker 1: won't be able to keep secrets, and we are not

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Speaker 1: going to keep perpetrators secrets any longer.

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Speaker 2: You called the book it wasn't meant to be like this.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in Campbelltown in Sydney's West where

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Speaker 1: two WS was a champion when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: because it was just a small radio station when I

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Speaker 1: was a teenager, and it's grown to the BMS that

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Speaker 1: it is today. And I loved growing up in Campbelltown.

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Speaker 1: I would not change a second of it because it

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Speaker 1: still sits in the center of my soul every day,

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Speaker 1: you know, I look back on even though there were

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Speaker 1: a few tough situations I had to get through growing

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Speaker 1: up in Campbelltown, most particularly being bullied at school. It

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Speaker 1: was just a beautiful way to start my life. And

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Speaker 1: I take the realness of everything that I experienced as

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Speaker 1: a kid and as a teenager into my journalism every

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Speaker 1: single day. You know, my gratitude for the career that

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Speaker 1: I've been able to have in those no bounds, because

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Speaker 1: my life when I was growing up wasn't meant to

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Speaker 1: be like this. If my young fifteen year old self

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Speaker 1: could look at what I've been able to do professionally,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't believe it. But I think a large part

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Speaker 1: of it is because nothing has come easily. Everything has

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Speaker 1: come from challenging myself every day and finding ways to

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Speaker 1: get through the challenges and coming out the other side

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Speaker 1: and feeling stronger for it, and having learnt new things

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Speaker 1: and working out how to navigate through situations that sometimes

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Speaker 1: have been tough. And all of that comes from having

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Speaker 1: grown up in Campbelltown. But I have no doubt about that,

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Speaker 1: and I look at the world through coming from really

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Speaker 1: humble beginnings and loving that and never taking anything, whether

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Speaker 1: it's the people in my life, the really good friends

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Speaker 1: that I have many of whom go all the way

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Speaker 1: back to Campbelltown infants we're in high school. I never

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Speaker 1: take any of that for granted.

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Speaker 4: And you've done so well with your life, you have

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Speaker 4: done extraordinary well, well, you're a bit sort of disappointed

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Speaker 4: that in the newspapers lately it just seems to come

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Speaker 4: down to this pay gender and how much money you're making.

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Speaker 4: Do you feel that that because I know you and

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Speaker 4: you're not the sort of person that does stuff for money.

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Speaker 1: It's been incredibly disappointing Jonesy because those numbers are all untrue.

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Speaker 3: So it's not as much it's not as much money

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Speaker 3: as they're saying.

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Speaker 1: No, no, And it's really offensive that those sorts of

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Speaker 1: numbers will put out there. But when those numbers will

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Speaker 1: put out there. When I moved to Channel ten, I

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Speaker 1: decided I wasn't going to get down in the mudge

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Speaker 1: and take part in any of those headlines because there's

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Speaker 1: no well, I wouldn't, there's no how do I put this?

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Speaker 1: Because I just don't want to get down in the

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Speaker 1: mud with those headlines, because they're calculated to paint a

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Speaker 1: certain picture of me that was untrue, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to get involved in a tit for tat and

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Speaker 1: any kind of specifics, because I would just look petty.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I work in a business that makes

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Speaker 1: a hell of a lot of money, a hell of

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, and what happened when I moved

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Speaker 1: networks should have been kept private, and I maintained privacy

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Speaker 1: while others didn't, and what was put out there was

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Speaker 1: one hundred incorrect. But if I would have tried to

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Speaker 1: correct the records, it ends up a really unseemly tit

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Speaker 1: for tat And I wasn't going to get involved in that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because sometimes it's good to get in the mud.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes you've got to defend yourself. I haven't find that

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Speaker 4: if you just say, no, that's not true. I remember

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Speaker 4: when I first started here, I get in trouble with

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Speaker 4: some an ill gotten stunt that I did on the radio,

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Speaker 4: and the lawyers he said, don't say anything, don't say anything.

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Speaker 3: But it got even worse, it got worse and worse.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying, if you said, well, this is how

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Speaker 4: much I got paid when I was working at Channel nine,

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Speaker 4: and this is what it was, then you probably find

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Speaker 4: it all go away.

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Speaker 2: An awkward conversation to have to have is.

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Speaker 3: An awkward conversation and in.

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Speaker 1: The end, I've only ever wanted my work to speak

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Speaker 1: for me, and that was what I decided to do that.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you just have to move on because

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Speaker 1: we all know what social media is like these days,

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Speaker 1: and there are no winners if you get involved in

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Speaker 1: in those sorts of conversations. Well, there was a you know,

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Speaker 1: for that period of time, I suppose there was a winner,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't me. And you know, I love being

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Speaker 1: at the project. I love the sort of work that

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Speaker 1: I get to do now, and you know, I get

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Speaker 1: to talk to people like Britney Higgins who have changed

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Speaker 1: women's lives for the better this year. So the work

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Speaker 1: has always been what's motivated me. None of the other

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Speaker 1: stuff interests me. But in writing the book, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to correct the record. But when you read the book,

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Speaker 1: you'll see that I've there's a lot that I've skirted

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Speaker 1: around because that's not what I'm motivated by at all.

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Speaker 1: I movated about telling the story of a little girl

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Speaker 1: from Campbelltown who was so lucky with the parents that

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Speaker 1: she had, and yet you know, my mum had a

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Speaker 1: really difficult childhood and in many ways I've been able

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Speaker 1: to live the life that my mother never got to live.

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Speaker 1: And my mother's story is very intertwined into the book,

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Speaker 1: as you would know. And you know, the channel line

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Speaker 1: stuff is only a tiny part of the book, but that,

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Speaker 1: of course has been the one that's created all the headlines.

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Speaker 3: That's the That's the thing, isn't it. And do he's

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Speaker 3: going to be weird when you see Kyl next time.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it will be fine, particularly you know when

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Speaker 1: you read the book. Yep, you know those headlines haven't

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Speaker 1: been generated by me. They've been generated by others. And

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Speaker 1: I hope that Carl can see that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well great, well he's on the line now jokes.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, the book is out today, your first book

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Speaker 2: as opposed to sixty eight million at your husban and

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Speaker 2: has written in I've just congratulations, Lisa. It's called it

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Speaker 2: Wasn't Meant to be like this, As we said, it's

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Speaker 2: out today.

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Speaker 4: It's a great read, except for that bit where it

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Speaker 4: admits the history that we have, But other than that,

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Speaker 4: it's a cracking reed.

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Speaker 1: I want it totally on the record that I wanted

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Speaker 1: you in the book, but my husband chows it's just jealousy.

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Speaker 3: He sees the talent, he sees it all. He just

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Speaker 3: goes chemistry, he sees it all there.

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Speaker 4: Lisa, It's always great to talk to you. Lisa's autobiography

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Speaker 4: It Wasn't meant to be like this is available now.

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Speaker 4: Lisa Wilkinson, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks guys, Jonesy and Amanda's