1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: I'm Betrina Jones and this is my new podcast, Rage 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Against the Menopause. My next guest likens menopause in the 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: Workplace to what support for mental health was fifteen years ago, 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: way behind the times and with a lot of catching 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: up to do. Grace malloy is a co founder of 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: Menopause Friendly Australia and has spoken at the Senate Inquiry 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: into menopause. The former nurse was so tired of seeing 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: businesses lose experience leaders early because of the symptoms that 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: she formed MFA, the only independent accreditation for menopause at work. 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Some of its members include BHP and City of Melbourne. 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: I hope you find episode seven, I'm in My Power 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: Now empowering. A common theme in all the episodes that 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: we've been doing so far on Rage Against the Menopause 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: is menopause in the workplace and the massive impact that 15 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: it's having, which is why I'm very excited to introduce 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: my next guest, Grace molloy. Grace is co founder CEO 17 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,919 Speaker 1: of Menopause Friendly Australia. 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: Grace, what is it you can tell us about your organization? 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me and I'm so glad that we're 20 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 3: talking about menopause in the workplace. That's why my organization 21 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 3: Menopause Friendly Australia exists. Last year I was looking around 22 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: for some support in the workplace and really realize that 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: actually no one in Australia is talking about menopause in 24 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 3: the workplace, but often overseas we're seeing that many workplaces 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 3: have been talking about it. So what we've done is 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: taken some of the best strategies that we've seen other 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 3: workplaces do in the UK and we've brought them here 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 3: to Australia to help employers here open up the conversation 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: so that menopause isn't a reason why people are leaving 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 3: work early. 31 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because the statistics are really really alarming. So three 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: in four women say symptoms impact daily life. This is 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: our stats from the Institute of Superinnuation Trust. One in 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: four reports severe symptoms. Twenty five percent actually consider quitting work. 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: So we've got one hundred and sixty thousand dozye women 36 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: a year who are starting on their menopause journey. As 37 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: a direct result of menopause, about twenty thousand women will 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: at some point move to part time. Half of those 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: ten thousand would leave work and return later four thousand 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: actually retire altogether, but that figure twenty five percent consider 41 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: leaving work. I know myself there are times where I've thought, 42 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: I actually don't. 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: Know how much longer I can. 44 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: Do this with hope of getting to the end line, 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: to the finish line, and knowing that I'm not going 46 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: to feel like this all the time. But obviously what 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: is happening with women in the UK all around the 48 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: world is happening here as well. 49 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: It's like a mirrored. 50 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 3: Effect, absolutely, and I always hear stories exactly of this 51 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 3: that I think, actually I need to step away from work. 52 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 3: I think it's really difficult for women also to understand 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 3: how much of what I'm experiencing is menopause, how much 54 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 3: of it is just life, how much it is stress 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 3: from my workplace. So it can be confusing, and many 56 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 3: people ask us how can I decipher this and what 57 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: strategies can I put in place, because we don't have 58 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: the knowledge and the information. So really what we want 59 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: to do is educate women and say it's really normal 60 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: to feel more stressed and anxious during perimenopause and menopause 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: because the hormones are changing in your brain, and that 62 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 3: means that you do have a heightened sense of stress 63 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: and anxiety, but there's things that you can do to 64 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: practically make that better. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot 65 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 3: of research, and some of those stats that you equoted 66 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: there are from surveys and from overseas, so we'd love 67 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 3: to see more research and what the economic impact is. 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: We're barely the surface. 69 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: There was an article in the finn Review which she 70 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: showed me which was really interesting. It gave the example 71 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: of a woman who had, like most of us, built 72 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: up her career over decades, got you know, to the 73 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: upper echelon of what she was doing, and suddenly menopause 74 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: hit and it's like, I actually think I have to leave. 75 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: And it's so she's left early after you know, gaining 76 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: a really noble place in her industry. It's probably cost 77 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: to like sixty seventy grand it lost super Are you 78 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,119 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of this right across the board? 79 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 4: Absolutely? And that is what we want to change, you know, 80 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 4: we want people to not feel as they have to leave. 81 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: If you look at Vicki's story, you know, she says, 82 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 3: once I got the support that I needed, I actually 83 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 3: feel like I can work again, and I do want 84 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 3: to work. So isn't it tragic that we've got people 85 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 3: leaving when there are things we can do about it? 86 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 3: And for most people, you know, you said three and 87 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 3: four people will experience symptoms of menopause one in four 88 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: or severe. So if you think about it, most people 89 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: will just need to be to come into work and say, 90 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 3: I'm having a bit of. 91 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: A day to day. 92 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 3: I haven't slept well last night, I'm feeling really stressed 93 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 3: and anxious today. You know, can I maybe defer doing 94 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: this task today till another day when I'm feeling really 95 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: on my game. 96 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 4: But right now, women. 97 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 3: Fear that they fear that if they say it's menopause 98 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 3: or perimenopause related, that they won't be met with empathy 99 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: and understanding and that they won't be given those opportunities 100 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: to have flexible work. So I think it's really important 101 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: that we do start opening the conversation and we also 102 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 3: start putting some frameworks in workplaces so that the people 103 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: that they're going to for that help have the knowledge 104 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: of what menopause is, how it might impact people, and 105 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 3: that they know within their workplace how to support that 106 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 3: person with flexibility or potentially with leave if that's what 107 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 3: is needed. 108 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: It's rooted at a deeper issue, though, isn't it. Why 109 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: is women? Do we feel that we can't approach our 110 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: employer and say, you know, I think it has a 111 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: lot to do with the decades long experience we build 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: ourselves up. Why are we so apprehensive to say, hey, 113 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: I need support and it's because of peri or minopause. 114 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: Well, we don't value aging very well here, do we. 115 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: I mean, is it a gender issue? 116 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 3: I think we've got a long way to go. And 117 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 3: you know, if we look at some cultures around menopause 118 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: where people where aging's revered, you know, there is some 119 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: discussion about whether menopause symptoms are actually a lot less 120 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: prevalent in those societies where aging is actually valued. I 121 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 3: think we've definitely, in the workplace, got a long way 122 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 3: to go. And agism is something that workplaces understand they 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: have to tackle. We've got an aging population. We will 124 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 3: see people working for longer. We will need to have 125 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 3: people working for longer because we have, you know, productivity 126 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 3: demands in this country. So workplaces are starting to address it, 127 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 3: but we've got a long way to god and sadly, 128 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 3: many people who leave the workforce during menopause, get the 129 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: right support and help, and then feel so they want 130 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: to get back into the worst. 131 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: And it's very difficult. I just think it's such. 132 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: A shame to have got to that point and then 133 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: to leave and you obviously haven't been supported, do you 134 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, And it's such a huge 135 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: loss for industry as well, because you're losing all these 136 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: skilled workers that really are irreplaceable. 137 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 138 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: I mean, if you think about a middle aged woman 139 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: in a workplace who just wants to get things done. Yeah, 140 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 3: we're pretty you know, we're pretty productive, and we. 141 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: Are well, we're spinning several different plates where parents, we're carers, 142 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: we're doing all these different things. 143 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: We can multitask. I think we've got that down, Pat. 144 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: Tell me, so what can workplaces do? What would you 145 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: recommend if you could make an appeal to workplaces now, 146 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: what do they need to do to be leading in 147 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: that field and to keep these skilled work and support 148 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: women and families really that are going through a hormonal change. 149 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: I would say to workplaces that menopause is like mental 150 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: health fifteen years ago, where we knew we needed to 151 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 3: have a conversation about it at work, but we weren't 152 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 3: really sure how to do that. Now we see that 153 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: it's a commonplace to have support for mental health within 154 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 3: our workplaces. We have mental health first atas so looking 155 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: at the same way that we opened up that conversation 156 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: and using that to open up a conversation about menopause. 157 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: I think the first thing a workplace can do is 158 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: speak to the people within within their workplace and ask 159 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: them how much do you know about menopause? Are you 160 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: experiencing symptoms, how are they impacting you in our workplace? 161 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 3: And specifically getting those senior leaders to come out and 162 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: talk about menopause. You know, we heard we saw Image 163 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 3: and Crump on the TV toos. You know, she called 164 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 3: out hot flush. So for senior leaders, if you're having 165 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 3: a moment, you know, calling it out and making it 166 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: a conversation that's welcome and okay in the workplace. 167 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, Removing the taboo and the stigma I think is 168 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: at a good step absolutely, And I think, you know, 169 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,239 Speaker 1: training is really important and just giving people the knowledge 170 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: of what it is, because we still see stats coming 171 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: out about how little we actually know ourselves about something 172 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: that's going to happen to all of us born with oaries. 173 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 3: So I think, you know, it's a really great way 174 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 3: to open up a conversation. And what we've seen from 175 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 3: workplaces that that have been accredited by menopause Friendly in 176 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 3: the UK is that the employee engagement that comes from 177 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 3: it is fantastic and women say, I'm really grateful that 178 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 3: my employer has actually given me this really practical knowledge 179 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 3: to help me not only at work, but also in 180 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: my life and with my health. 181 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 2: And that's the thing. 182 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: If you feel supported at work, it's going to make 183 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: all of your life easier, to be honest, isn't it. 184 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: With the workplace, my vision, my dream is that we 185 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: talk obviously and have a lot of systems in place 186 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: for pay peridittal leave and for maternity leave. Wouldn't it 187 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: be great if we had a one day where that 188 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: was the same for menopause. 189 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: It's just common sense to me. 190 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a question. I'm being asked a lot 191 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 3: is around policies and leave particularly so obviously, as someone 192 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 3: born with ovaries, you're going to have reproductive health needs, fertility, 193 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: you know, if you think about being a parent, but 194 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 3: also things like endometriosis, pcos menopause, so you know, there's 195 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 3: many people saying, well, actually, because we are born with 196 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: reproductive organs like this, it means that we are going 197 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 3: to need extra time off. Correct, I'm going to need 198 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 3: to go to appointments. We need to have that time 199 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 3: to go and you know, seek that care. So many 200 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: employers are looking at providing leave, but. 201 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: In addition to current entitlements. 202 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 3: In addition to current entitlements, that's right. So in Victoria, 203 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: the public sector are actually currently looking at providing five 204 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 3: days leave menopause, menstruation, and reproductive therapy. I would say, 205 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 3: though leave's not the most important thing. The most important 206 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 3: thing is for women to be able to just come 207 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 3: into work say that I'm having a day and be 208 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 3: able to know that that conversation is not going to 209 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: lead to stigma. 210 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, or you know, their chance of promotion or 211 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: their stance in the workplace. 212 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 213 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 3: I was talking to a woman the other day who's 214 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 3: a lawyer, and she said she had been very open 215 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 3: about her perimenopause journey. She spoke to her employer and said, look, 216 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 3: I'm going through perimenopause. I'm finding that I'm not sleeping, 217 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: and I've got this brain fog, and I've got other 218 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 3: things like heavy menstrual periods happening that you know, she 219 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: was really brave spoke to her male employer about it 220 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: without them having opened the conversation, and she said she 221 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 3: did have to take some extra leaf, which was her 222 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: sick leaf. She took her sick leaf to go to 223 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: an appointment to see a doctor and to help you know, 224 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 3: her feel better so that she could, you know, stay 225 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,359 Speaker 3: at work. And she said her employer was very supportive 226 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 3: and they said absolutely. But then when it came time 227 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 3: for her performance review, her manager said, well, you have 228 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 3: taken a lot of extra leave days and we know 229 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 3: that you've found it difficult. And she said to our employer, 230 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: but this is my performance review, So what's my performance 231 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: made to do with my medical condition? 232 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 4: Right? 233 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: And so you know, but she did say, you know, 234 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 3: what was my performance and they said, look, your performance 235 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 3: has been fantastic. And so I think we really need 236 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 3: to understand how to separate that you performance versus needing 237 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: time out of the workforce, because as you and I know, 238 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: if you take time off and you feel better, you're 239 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 3: going to be able to perform a lot more than 240 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: if you stay sitting at your desk not getting that help, 241 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: not taking that time off continuing to struggle on and 242 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 3: then you know that's where your performance is impacted. 243 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: This is the thing, and I think this is why 244 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: women are reluctant to talk. 245 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: I did IVF at work as well, and hit it 246 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 3: from my employer for a couple of years. And then 247 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 3: when I did announce that I was pregnant, my manager 248 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 3: gave me a packet of condoms for the secret center, 249 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 3: which was a big blow. 250 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: So, look, we do. 251 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 3: Have a lot of way to go, but staying silent 252 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 3: is not the answer. Keeping hiding what we're going through. 253 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: This is a normal, natural thing that every single person 254 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 3: who's born with ovaries will go through, and there are 255 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 3: symptoms that we need to address. But so we do 256 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 3: need to open the conversation in a really informative way 257 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 3: that really shows workplaces that this can be a way 258 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 3: that you can stand out from the crowd. Yeah, you 259 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: can attract really talented women and. 260 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: Lead the way. 261 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: What Ozsie employers Grace are leading the way with menopause leave. 262 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 3: We're seeing people from across different industry groups. So employers 263 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 3: like BHP, which is a big mining company in Anglo 264 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: goldas Shanty really leading the way in their Industry Accentia. 265 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 3: We're one of the first members. They're an organization who's 266 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 3: accredited in the UK. But even you know, all different 267 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: industry groups, not for profits like cares WA. We're seeing 268 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: all ambulance services, also manufacturers of food. So people who 269 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 3: employ lots of different diverse people from different backgrounds really 270 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: seeing that if they start opening the conversation now, they 271 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,119 Speaker 3: can really improve the working conditions for women through menopause 272 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 3: and that has a great business impact for them. 273 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: It's only positive, isn't it productivity? Maintaining stuff skilled staff. 274 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 3: It costs fifty five thousand dollars on average if someone 275 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: goes on a stress related workplace injury. So if you 276 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: think about somebody going feeling that they can't cope at 277 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: work and they might not even know that their hormones 278 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: could be the reason as well. So if you think 279 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 3: about those people giving them the right support, education, allowing 280 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 3: them to get the right care that they need and 281 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 3: then not take that time out of the workforce on 282 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 3: stress related injury claims. But also it's one hundred and 283 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 3: fifty percent of someone's salary to replace them. Yeah, so 284 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 3: the cost of turnover to businesses is huge and unemployment 285 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 3: in Australia is still really low. We are still fighting 286 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 3: to get talented people to work for us, So employees 287 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 3: that realize that they have to step up and they 288 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 3: have to show that they are a great place to work, 289 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: to attract and retain talented women and to change some 290 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 3: of those horrible statistics around our gender pay gap, which 291 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: is twenty one point seven percent quite embarrassing. 292 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, tell us about the Federal Senate inquiry. 293 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: What do we hope will come out of that? 294 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: Just the fact we're having it is a good first 295 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: step absolutely. I mean, do you think five years ago 296 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: we would have had a Senate inquiry into metopause? I think, 297 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, that just shows having more people who lived 298 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: experience in parliament really helps to bring these things into 299 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: the fore. So I'm really excited about the Senate inquiry 300 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: and reading some of the submissions of people who have 301 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: submitted anonymously. Don't read them too close to bed, you know, 302 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: it's really die always hearing some horrible stories of people 303 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: really struggling. So I hope the outcomes from the Center 304 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: inquiry will be renewed focus on training for doctors. So 305 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: right now there's not great education and training for our GPS. 306 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: So people often are going to see their doctor and 307 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: they're being dismissed or their doctor doesn't understand how to 308 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: help support them through their symptoms. So that's a really 309 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: important outcome that I hope to see from the inquiry. 310 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: From a workplace perspective, you know, we really flesh out 311 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: where the gaps are for employment of women in this 312 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: life phase and where some additional protections could. 313 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 4: Be brought in. 314 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 3: So some of the unions are looking at, well, could 315 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 3: we make menopause a protected right under the Respected Work 316 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 3: Act so that there's actually a protection for people that 317 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 3: you cannot be discriminated on based on your menopausal status. 318 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 3: Others are looking at whether or not there needs to 319 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 3: be leave entitlements. So really what we want to do 320 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 3: is across all the different aspects of menopause and not 321 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 3: only in the workplace, but also looking at how it 322 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 3: impacts our First Nations population, our cold communities, you know, 323 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 3: LGBTQI plus a community who find extremely difficult to get 324 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 3: support and help during this life phase. So I'm really 325 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 3: confident that it will shine a spotlight. As we've all 326 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: said inquiries, you know, it's really key that then the 327 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 3: handing down off the reports and flows through interchange. Yes, 328 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: but right now, what I'm saying is that the spotlight 329 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 3: means that people are talking about it, that workplaces are 330 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: looking at what they can do, and that women are 331 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: asking for more. You know, they're saying, I've fed up, 332 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 3: this is not good enough. I deserve better, and I 333 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 3: really want to know what I can do to stay 334 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: healthy through this time of life and feel like I 335 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 3: can still thrive in all aspects. 336 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: It's almost like there needs to be a designated minister, 337 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: so not just a women's affairs minister, but someone that 338 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: someone that can oversee the recommendations and actually make positive change. 339 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: So it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it. 340 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 3: It's interesting you mentioned that because in the UK they 341 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 3: had a parliamentary inquiry a couple of years ago. One 342 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: of the outcomes of that was that the government nominated 343 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: a menopause in the workplace government champion. That is a 344 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 3: volunteer position that that person's not paid to do or 345 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 3: provided things. But what we've see naturally has been the 346 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: biggest outcome, The biggest driver of change is really getting 347 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 3: to women where they are, and that's in the workplace. 348 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 3: You know, When I first started learning about perimenopause, I 349 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 3: was in my late thirties. I had an obstetrician father. 350 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: My mom is a midwife, Oh wow. And I did 351 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 3: the Masters of Nursing, Oh wow. And I still had 352 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: no idea about menopause. 353 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: See here you go. 354 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 3: So really, I think we need to almost have an intervention, 355 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 3: don't we, you know, just to say to women, this 356 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 3: is going to happen to you. Here's the facts. You know, 357 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 3: it's not all bad. You can also have, you know, 358 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 3: a really empowering time through this. It can be an 359 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: opportunity to really refocus and focus on what you want 360 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 3: to bring forward into your life and what you want 361 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 3: to leave behind. You know, because you get to that 362 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 3: point of life where you think, I'm not gonna think 363 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 3: it was fifty. 364 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: It was fifty for me where I thought, you know, 365 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: I don't care so much what people think. You grow 366 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: into your skin a bit, you feel a bit more 367 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: comfortable in your own skin. 368 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 3: I think someone said to me the other day, you 369 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 3: know the world should fear a fifty year old woman 370 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 3: who just doesn't give us stuff anymore. 371 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 4: I didn't say stuff. 372 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: That's so true, though, isn't it. 373 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 3: But I mean, I don't think we should fear fear 374 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 3: fifty old women who don't give U stuff anymore. 375 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 4: We should be empowering. 376 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: You know Where's fear got us to this point. Fear 377 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,239 Speaker 1: to speak up in the workplace, fear to get to 378 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: say anything, and it's not getting us anywhere. 379 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 2: So we need to change our tact moving forward. 380 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 3: It's time absolutely and let's celebrate how amazing women are 381 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: in all stages of life. And I think really what 382 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 3: we can hopefully say from this parliamentary inquiry as well 383 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 3: is women stepping up and saying, yeah, I didn't have 384 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 3: a great time through menopause, but I'm out the other 385 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 3: side now and I feel better than I ever have before. 386 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 3: I know who I am as a person, I know 387 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: what I want to do, and I've shared a lot. 388 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 4: Of that worry. 389 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 3: I've stopped really looking at all of the small things 390 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 3: and I'm really feeling as so I'm in my power 391 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: now where I can really make an impact, and so 392 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: those stories are really important to share as well. 393 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: Part of our role, I think too, is leaving a 394 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: legacy for other women. The buck stops with us. We 395 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: are in charge of this situation. We need to lead 396 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: the way for change. 397 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 398 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 3: I've got two daughters as well, they're nine and eleven. 399 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: They know a lot about menopause, obviously a lot more 400 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 3: than their friends. 401 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 4: But that's the point. 402 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 3: You know, they know more about menopause because if me 403 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 3: but their friends wouldn't. Why do when we educate kids 404 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 3: about periods do we cut the conversation short, We don't 405 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: talk about and then you know your periods will stop, 406 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 3: but it won't be abrupt, It'll be gradual, and holmines 407 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 3: will change over time, and you might have symptoms that 408 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 3: are difficult to deal with, but there's help available and 409 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 3: you can get through it. And then on the other side, 410 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 3: you have a lot more living to be done. And 411 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 3: I think particularly as well is some of the longer 412 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 3: term health risks associated with going through menopause early. 413 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 4: People don't know about that. 414 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: And women are going through it early, like early forties, 415 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: you hear now even late late thirties, whereas perhaps we 416 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: had this sort of perception that it happened to our grandmothers, 417 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: but it's actually probably really not the case. It's kind 418 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: of more like a midlife sort of crisis we're going through. 419 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: In synetics. 420 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you the number of 421 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 3: women that are in my I'm forty one, and you know, 422 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 3: women in the late thirties and early forties and say, oh, 423 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 3: I'm not in menopause yet. And I say, well, how 424 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 3: do you know? And they said, I'm still getting my period, 425 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 3: you know, I say, well, actually, you know, menopause is 426 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 3: a one day event and on average occurs between forty 427 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 3: five and fifty five. But perimenopause, that time leading up 428 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 3: when we're having the roughest right, that can last ten years. 429 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 4: I know. 430 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 3: So if you think about somebody conceivably on average, can 431 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 3: go through menopause at forty five, ten years earliest. 432 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 4: Thirty five. 433 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon. I was thirty eight thirty nine after 434 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: I had Audrey. I could feel my body change, and 435 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: I used to When I look back now, I think 436 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: it was the start of like that hot flush time 437 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: where it was just at the back of my neck 438 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: and then it sort of grew more extensive. But now 439 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: I look back, I think, yeah, that was probably at 440 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: the time like about thirty nine for me. 441 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 3: And what I want is women to not look back, 442 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: you know, not to have to look back and say, oh, 443 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: it was perimenopause. You know, to have that knowledge and 444 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 3: information when we're going through it, and a lot of 445 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 3: what we see is that actually just by talking about 446 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 3: it with others that are experiencing it, that. 447 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 4: Can make us feel so much better, one. 448 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: Hundred percent better. 449 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: A lot of women say they feel that they're going 450 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: through early dementia, that they're having a nervous broke down. 451 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: I feel like that at times where I have so 452 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: much trouble remembering stuff and I think, you know, there's 453 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: dementia in my family, and I think, oh my god, like. 454 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: Lighting on the wall for me, Like it's something. 455 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: I mean, anyone who's experienced brain fog you do, because 456 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 3: it can come on really suddenly as well, and it 457 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: could be mead sentence and all of a sudden, what 458 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 3: you're talking about drops out of your head. And you 459 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 3: think about that in the workplace, if you're presenting to 460 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 3: a board and you've got your slides up and your. 461 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: On radio, Absolutely, and. 462 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: You're just the words, it's like a rug getting ripped 463 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: out from unto you. Yeah, and it's just so isolating. 464 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, what's going on with my head? 465 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I mean there are some great researchers here 466 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 3: in Victoria actually at the her Center, who are about 467 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: to release a fact sheet about brain fog to help 468 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 3: people understand is it normal what I'm experiencing or is 469 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 3: it early on set dementia? 470 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 4: Do I need to go and seek real help for this? 471 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 3: And I think that's really important too, is that if 472 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 3: you're experiencing brain fog and it's affecting your life, affecting 473 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 3: your abilities to work, you know, affecting your relationships because 474 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 3: your kids are saying I've already told you that four 475 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 3: times a month, then go and talk to somebody about it. 476 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 3: Because there are things we can do, medical and non 477 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 3: medical that can help make brain fog better. And in 478 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 3: the workplace, you know, putting in place and strategy, so 479 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 3: not having conversations off the cuff with your manager in 480 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 3: the corridor when you know that you're going to forget 481 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 3: exactly what he asked you to do or she asked 482 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 3: you to do in the corridor, you know, sitting down 483 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 3: and having a meeting where you can write notes. 484 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 4: I take so many notes. 485 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, same. 486 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: The number of lists I have is ridiculous, and old 487 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: school lists where I have to physically. 488 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: Write it on paper. I seem to forget to remember 489 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 2: it easier. 490 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 3: But you know what, all of the experience that you 491 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 3: have in your role and in your life is still there, 492 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: all of your capability and knowledge or their closed door. 493 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 2: It's just a bit, it's just very good webs. 494 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. 495 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 3: But and that is really important to have that conversation 496 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 3: because that will give women confidence to say, it's brain fog. 497 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 3: I've got some strategy in place now, I'm still capable, 498 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 3: i can still do my job. I've still got this. 499 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 3: And that conversation needs to happen in workplaces and employers 500 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 3: can educate their people, leaders and their managers around what 501 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 3: to do. Somebody is experiencing that because right now managers 502 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 3: are saying someone's coming to me. 503 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 4: They're saying they've got brain fog. I don't know what. 504 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're not armed with information. If there's 505 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: employers listening, workers listening and want to get in touch 506 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: with you, what is the best way for them to 507 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: reach out. 508 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 3: Sure, they can download our free Menopause Friendly Checklist off 509 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 3: of our website, which will give them some great some 510 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 3: tips and strategies to start thinking about how menopause friendly 511 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 3: they are at the moment. 512 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 4: So that's for employers. 513 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: We also have a LinkedIn page that they can connect 514 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 3: with us, and we share lots of different information and 515 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 3: research for individuals. I would say, if you are feeling 516 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: like your symptoms of menopause are impacting you at work 517 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 3: and you want to talk to someone and you don't 518 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 3: know where to start, have a look on your internet 519 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 3: and look around your organization if there are policies, if 520 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 3: there is support existing that you might be able to utilize. 521 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 3: If there's not, write down your symptoms, keep tracking your 522 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 3: symptoms and thinking about how they're impacting. 523 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 4: You at work. 524 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 3: Find someone within your within your workplace that you do 525 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 3: trust or that you want to talk to about it, 526 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 3: and then focus the conversation at work around what the 527 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 3: workplace can do to help get the support that you 528 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 3: need outside the workplace for your health concerns. And you know, 529 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 3: you can start managing symptoms with your GP and really 530 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 3: focusing that on a really constructive conversation in the workplace, 531 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 3: because that then shows that you are taking action to 532 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 3: support yourself. You know exactly what it is that you 533 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 3: need at work, and you're coming to your lawyer saying, look, 534 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: this is something that could really help, and often those 535 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 3: strategies already exist, flexible working policies. You know that they're 536 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 3: you know, we're all working from home now. But often 537 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 3: many women say the number one thing is just knowing 538 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,239 Speaker 3: that somebody at web knows what I'm going through and 539 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 3: so if I'm having a day, I can call them 540 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 3: and say, look, I'm having a day. 541 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: And it's not just in your head, no, I mean 542 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: and suffering in silence is a big thing. 543 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is when we run our training courses 544 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 3: aiming workplaces, we're inundated with women saying, first of all, 545 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 3: I had no idea how much of this of what 546 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 3: I'm going through is normal. And now that I know, 547 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 3: I feel less alone, you know, And I think that 548 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 3: is there's so much power in that because women are 549 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 3: feeling really alone, they're feeling as though they may is 550 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 3: it this is it that we're you know, we get 551 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 3: dismissed sometimes when we go and ask for help, So 552 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 3: it leaves us with even more lack of confidence, guilt, 553 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 3: feel like we're letting people down, correct, don't we? And 554 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: it's not fair because you know we've got to this 555 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 3: point and when you've had children as well, and you 556 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 3: know you've had to take time out of work to 557 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 3: look after your kids, and you're joined the juggle and 558 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 3: your kids are in daycare and they're sick all the time, 559 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: and you feel like you're just not able to really 560 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 3: contribute focus at work. And then when you finally feel 561 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 3: like your kids are at school and you've got a 562 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 3: handle on things, and you think, oh, I can really 563 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 3: get back into a meaty meeting role. Now I feel 564 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: like to put myself first after these years, exactly, and 565 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 3: so we want to harness that. But many women then say, 566 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 3: but then PERI, menopause just came and snacked me in 567 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 3: the face, and I feel like it's not fair. 568 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt ripped off. 569 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: I actually felt ripped off after going through indometriosis and 570 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: polycystic and then I had the cancer. 571 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 4: You've been through it so much. 572 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 2: Oh well, probably a lot of people have. 573 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: But I got to that point and I thought, seriously, like, 574 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: now I'm my periods have kind of finished, and it's like, 575 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: now I have Are you serious? Now I have to 576 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: go through this? Like I didn't sign up for this, 577 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: Like come on. 578 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 3: And that's what it can feel like in the workplace, too, 579 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 3: like I've just had enough, and it's easy to blame 580 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 3: work when I stressed and say it must be my 581 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 3: work that's making me feel this way. What about when 582 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: you went through your cancer treatment, did anyone talk to 583 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 3: you about how that would impact you in terms of menopause. 584 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: I had a renal in afrectomy, so I had my 585 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: left kidney out and then I had my right overtaken, 586 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: which wasn't I have to say, it wasn't related to 587 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: the kidney cares or I just had assist there that 588 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: had been there for a very long time and it 589 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: was starting to change compositions. 590 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: So they thought, you know what, I think we'll get 591 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 2: that out. 592 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: And my surgeon said that might speed up your menopause process. 593 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: Which it did. 594 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: So I was already perimenopausal on that stage, but I 595 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: was still getting a period, but a bit hickuity pickity. 596 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: I had so much trouble, so much trouble getting diagnosed 597 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: with ENDO in the first place. I had an elderly 598 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: gynecologist and I said to I was probably in my 599 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: early twenties, and I said to him, do you think 600 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: it's possitive because you don't know your period compared to 601 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: someone else. You're like, I've got a very high pain threshold. 602 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: I knew that, but I didn't know if what I 603 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: was having was normal, this crippling paint. And I said 604 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: to him, is it possible. I've heard of this thing 605 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: called endometriosis. Is it possible I could have that? He 606 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: rolled his eyes into the back of his head. So 607 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: you know what that gave me a feeling of, oh well, 608 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: I'm being eurotic, like that's just ridiculous. So I just 609 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: shoved it in a cupboard away. And then it wasn't 610 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: until it took us five years to conceive our daughter, 611 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: and when literally on the day I had her, I 612 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: had a cesarean section, and I had a wonderful obstetrician, 613 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: Lionel Steinberg vaginal Lionel, who speaking of that cyst, said 614 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: when I'm in there, I might get that cyst, which 615 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: he didn't end up because it looked fine, but he said, 616 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: I can see why you've you definitely have endometriosis. Your 617 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: fallopian tube on the right side is wrapped around your 618 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: bow like a tree. 619 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 4: Stuff. 620 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: I'm not going near that. That's a major surgery. 621 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: But you know what it was, it was I just 622 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: felt my body like relax because I felt vindicated, like 623 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like an idiot, like that other surgeon 624 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: made me feel for feeling eurotic and it was all 625 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: in my head. So I had quite a battle just 626 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: to get and I was thirty nine at that point, 627 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: and I started my periods at what fourteen? 628 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: So I went all that time. 629 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 3: And hopefully now, I mean, we're seeing a lot more 630 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 3: funding for demetro so it has been a great education. 631 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: In the federal budget, they announced funding. I think it's 632 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: finally time. And I'm hoping the same can happen for 633 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: minnopause too. I hope to see that as well. 634 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 3: And I think, you know, for anyone out there, it's 635 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: hard to know if what you're experiencing is normal. And 636 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 3: I had this conversation with someone about heavy menstrual bleeding 637 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: because ninety percent of women will have at least one 638 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 3: heavy flooding period during their perimenopause and menopause journey. But 639 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 3: we don't actually ever know how much is normal because 640 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 3: we're you're really on ec ours, right, So. 641 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 4: That's right, you think, is this normal? Is it not normal? 642 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 4: Same with pain. 643 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 3: You know, we put up with so many things because 644 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 3: we think we just should when they're actually our answers 645 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: to what we're going through, but it's finding the right doctor. 646 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 3: As he said, you know, you call out to the 647 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 3: right amazing gynecologist. Again, that can be really challenging for people, 648 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 3: particularly in rule and remote areas. 649 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: The excesses into a gynecologist can take months in regional. 650 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 3: Areas absolutely, and that's I think why it's important that 651 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 3: a public awareness campaign, you know, really would be fantastic, 652 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 3: and I hope that the government do look at that, 653 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 3: at running a public awareness campaign around perimenopause and menopause. 654 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 3: You know, there's got to be some health economics in 655 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 3: it if you think about women looking after their bone health, 656 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 3: their heart health, looking after our diet, BET's health, you know, 657 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 3: So staying well through midlife is really what perimenopause or 658 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: health is about, is going to have a better impact 659 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 3: on our long term health as well. So I think 660 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: it's vital that we talk about it more. We're starting 661 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 3: in the workplace because we know that's where women are 662 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: and we know that there are really significant benefits for 663 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 3: the workplace as well. 664 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 4: So I hope the. 665 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 3: Government will continue that by doing something around public awareness 666 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 3: too for everyone. 667 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: Well, congratulations, I think you're doing an amazing job and 668 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: I think you're being a trailblazer in. 669 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: All of this. 670 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. I don't feel like a trailblazer. I'm 671 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 3: just saying it how it is, so hopefully others will 672 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 3: join me. 673 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: No, but it's important. I think that's what we need 674 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,239 Speaker 2: to do. We need to talk about it. 675 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 4: So thank you, Grace, Thank you, lovely to meet. 676 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: You, Grace molloy, CEO of Minopause Friendly Australia. For more information, 677 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: you can head to their website or email hello at 678 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: Menopausefriendly dot com dot au. My next guest is someone 679 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: I grew up watching on Catwalks National TV, who, when 680 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: she found out I was having a launch party the 681 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: Rage Against the Menopause, got in touch, eager to meet 682 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: me and offer up her lived experience. Nikki Buckley features 683 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 1: in episode eight, going by the beat of her own drum, 684 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm Petrina Jones.