1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: Every now and again. Children make mistakes, they break things, 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: they have accidents, and sometimes those things are costly. Should 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: we be making our children pay for the thing they 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: broke for the accident that they were a part of 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: today's conversation natural consequences, accountability and what's fair when it 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: is their fault or when it's not their fault. We'll 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: try to answer those questions so that you can navigate 8 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: those tricky situations whenever they occur. In just a sec 9 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: it's next on the Happy Families podcast. Hello, Welcome to 10 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: the Happy Famili's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions. Every single day. 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: It's Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast, where Justin and Kylie Coulson. Today, Kylie, 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: you've asked for the start of the pod. You have 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: an incident to discuss. 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: I was talking with some mum friends the other day 15 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: and a situation came up. One of my friend's sons 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: had invited his friend over to play and they were 17 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: in the lound room playing with the Wii and the 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: controller slipped out of his friend's hand and smashed their 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: brand new TV. 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: So when I hear you say that, my initial response 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: is the controller slipped out of his hand, so that 22 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,639 Speaker 1: that that strikes me as questionable, Like. 23 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: So the mum actually saw it happen. 24 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: Oh okay, so it is legit. 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: So it is legit, okay. And she knew that there 26 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: was there was no you know, monkey business going. 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: On having a hand trum because he's losing How old 28 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: the kids eight? Oh gosh? Okay. 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: And so her question that she posed to all of 30 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: us was, I've never been in a situation where anything 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: like this has happened before. Do I ask the parents 32 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: to replace our TV? 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: Mm hmm? What was the census? 34 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: The overwhelming response was no, you can't do that. But 35 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: there was definitely conversations around the fact that if it 36 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: was me, I would be letting the parents know about 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 2: the incident, and I would be hoping that they would 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: offer to kind of help out in some way. 39 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let me ask you would you agree with that? 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: Would you let the parents know, Hey just wanted you 41 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: to know this happened today, or would you just let 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: it be? Would you expect that they should be paying 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: for the TV, especially you've got a brand new TV. 44 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: TV's sometimes very expensive. What are your thoughts? 45 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: So I think that relationships matter more than things and 46 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: it would depend on the relationship I had with the family, 47 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: That's the first thing. And then secondly, I wouldn't be 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: expecting an eight. 49 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: Year old to cough up three or four grand. 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 2: Obviously, But I would also like to think that together 51 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: as parents, we could think of a way that they 52 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: could feel like they have contributed to helping restore something 53 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: that they broke, because, regardless if it was an accident 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 2: or maliciously done, kids carry the guilt of the experience 55 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: more times than not, and giving them a way that 56 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: they can make restitution for what has taken place helps 57 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: them to feel like they're a good contributor. Okay, So 58 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: we've never actually had this experience happen in our home 59 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 2: at all. 60 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: Our children have never broken anything accidentally or maliciously. 61 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: No, we haven't had any friends really that have done 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: any damage. 63 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: I thought you're gonna say, we've never had any friends. 64 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: No, but our kids have definitely, and probably more so 65 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,839 Speaker 2: with cars. Yeah. 66 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: Well at the other end of the spect we're going 67 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: to talk about that a little bit later. So, yeah, 68 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: where do we go from here? 69 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: Well, what would you have done if it was if 70 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: it was us? 71 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So I think that I'm really cautious of using 72 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: the word consequences because whenever I hear the word consequences, 73 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: it usually relates to how should I punish a child? 74 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 1: But there's definitely something to discussed here. 75 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: So why don't you break it down for us? What's 76 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: the difference between a natural consequence or a logical consequence? 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: Okay, so a natural consequence is when the remote flies 78 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: out of your hand and hits the TV. It breaks 79 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: the TV, and now we don't have a TV anymore. 80 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: That's a natural consequence. A logical consequence is completely different. 81 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: Let me break it down even more. I think that 82 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: it's worth spenning them in on this because I hear 83 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: about this on the blogs all the time. I hear 84 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: about this on social media all the time, and it's 85 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: really important to make the distinction between them. It's one 86 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: that I find troubling. I've got to be honest, because 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: to me, this distinction reveals how adults continue to manipulate 88 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: and coerce children even when they think they're being progressive. 89 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: So natural consequence, that's what happens on its own without 90 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: any adult intervention. You don't wear your jacket, you get cold, 91 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: you don't eat, you get hungry. These are not consequences 92 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: that are imposed by anyone. They just unfold you naturally. Yeah, 93 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: you treat people unkindly in the playground, you likely won't 94 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: have any friends. But we need to be careful about 95 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: standing back and smugly saying h I knew that was 96 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: going to happen, while your child suffers like you're trying 97 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: to teach them a lesson. A lot of parents will say, well, 98 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: you're just going to experience the natural consequences, and to me, 99 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: a compassionate, loving parent will intervene. The natural consequences of 100 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: playing too close to the road either you might get 101 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: hit by a. 102 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: Car, but you'd never do that. 103 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: Of course, the natural consequences of placing your hand on 104 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: the hot stove is you will burn your hand, and 105 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: a parent would say, well, I would never let my 106 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: child do that because the stakes are too high, the 107 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: risk is too great. I still think that when we 108 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: can see quite clearly the natural consequences of AB or C, 109 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: it's worth some level of intervention so we can say 110 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: to our children, I'm nervous about this. For you, the 111 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: natural consequences of you, as a fifteen year old going 112 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: out and drinking too much alcohol is that you are 113 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: going to hurt yourself or somebody else eventually. This is yeah, 114 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: that's right. It's not going to end well here, and 115 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: so we do need to I think, intervene and prevent 116 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: natural consequences because there are better ways to learn lessons. 117 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: Smug I told you so. Ism isn't in the best 118 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: interest of our kids. Logical consequences, though, this is where 119 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: things get really insidious. So logical consequences are punishments that 120 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: are dressed up in reasonable sounding clothing. And what I 121 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: mean by that is adults impose them, but then they 122 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: claim that they're somehow natural or inevitable. For example, if 123 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: you don't put your toys away, I'm going to take 124 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: them away for a week, or I'm going to take 125 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: the iPad away from you. If you're late to dinner, 126 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: you don't get to eat. So that's not a logical consequence. 127 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: That's an arbitrary penalty. That's the punishment yeah, that adults 128 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: have invented and then enforced because they think that it's 129 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: going to teach you less but it teaches all the 130 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: wrong lessons. And my question here is, well, why do 131 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: kids need to suffer consequences at all? The entire framework 132 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: assumes that children only learn through suffering, which is it's 133 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: patently false. It's based on behaviorism, which is an old 134 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: form of psychology, the idea that we have to manipulate 135 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: people through punishments and rewards. But kids are thinking, feeling 136 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: people who are trying to make sense of the world, 137 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: and they need our help, not our clever punishment schemes. 138 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: So for the rest of this conversation and after the break, 139 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: we're going to pick this up. Instead of asking what 140 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: consequence should I impose because the TV was broken by 141 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: their remote control, or because the window was broken, or 142 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: the vase was broken by a wayward ball, or somebody 143 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: being careless, or because somebody put their shoulder through the 144 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: wall because they were wrestling too roudly, or maybe even 145 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: they were angry. Instead of saying what consequences should impose? 146 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: I think it's much more effective to say, what does 147 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: this child need right now? How can I help them 148 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: to learn? Discipline is about problem solving, So what problem 149 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: are we trying to solve together? That creates a relationship 150 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: based on collaboration and trust rather than control, And that's 151 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: kind of what I'm working towards. So after the break. 152 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about why we need kids to 153 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: use their or and get out of bed. That sounds exciting, 154 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: doesn't it. And we're also going to talk about those 155 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: things where things really do happen by accident versus those 156 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: things that happen out of anger with intent, and whether 157 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: or not problem solving might actually need to include some 158 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: form of reparation. So that's coming up in just a sex. 159 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: Stay with us. We're talking punishments and consequences and what 160 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: to do when mistakes happen or when damage or breakage occurs. 161 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: Maybe it's a laptop that's been broken, or perhaps a 162 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: car has been crashed, depending on the age of your child, 163 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: or maybe. 164 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: Or they've left their school jumper at school and lost 165 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: it this is like the fourth time this year, yeah. 166 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: Or perhaps it's Mother's Day and the kids have decided 167 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: to give you a bath. They've turned the taps on, 168 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: and then they've forgotten to turn the taps off, and 169 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: they've flooded downstairs, which happened in our house a few 170 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: years ago and cost thousands of dollars in replace. 171 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 2: So I was followed by a twelve hundred mass. 172 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: So what do we do here? What do we do 173 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: about this. One of my favorite phrases to talk to 174 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: parents about is using your ore and getting out of bed. 175 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: So the kids when they hear me talking about this, 176 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: they roll their eyes like this has been hit so 177 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: many times in our house. But when the kids do 178 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: something wrong, they often go to blame, excuse, and denial. 179 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: That is, they get into bed, blame, excuse, denial. And 180 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: I'm really big on saying no, no, no, no, you need 181 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: to use it or here, own it, be accountable, show 182 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: some responsibility, ownership, accountability, responsibility, Oh a R, that's your ore, 183 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: bed blame, excuse and denial. And what I'm really looking 184 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: for from a pairing point of view is if my 185 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: children are in bed, then they can't be taught, they 186 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: can't problem solve, they can't figure out a way to 187 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: make sure that this doesn't happen again. 188 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: Well, it's not their fault. So they're not willing to 189 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: take responsibility for it. They're not willing to recognize the 190 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: part that they may have played in it. There's no 191 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: conversation to be happening. 192 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, no accountability and ownership. So what I'm interested in 193 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: is what part did you play here? And how can 194 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: you own that how can you be accountable? How can 195 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: you be responsible? That's what adults do, That's maturity. 196 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking about the story that we shared last 197 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: week on the pod where you destroyed dinner. 198 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Again. 199 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sharing it because I don't think it matters 200 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 2: what age you are. We make a mistake. Yes, how 201 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: did you feel at the end of that process? 202 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: So, I mean, I spent two and a half hours 203 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: on dinner and I was devastated. I was absolutely I 204 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: was heartbroken because I was so looking forward to the meal. 205 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: It was late at night, we were all exhausted and hungry, 206 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: and I really I felt like I actually felt like 207 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: but instead we laughed and I said, I've completely ruined this. 208 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: I was a little bit angry at our twenty one 209 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: year old daughter who had told me to buy condensed 210 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: milk rather than coconut milk, and I rang her and 211 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: told her. But then she felt awful. She almost burst 212 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: into tears on the phone. And I felt awful for 213 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: bringing guilt into that conversation because it was an honest 214 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: mistake on her part, and so I just owned it. 215 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: I said, guys, I've ruined dinner. Pizza is on me tonight. 216 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: We're eating pizza. What sort of pizza do you want? 217 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 2: So often when we find ourselves in a place where 218 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: somebody makes a mistakes, someone breaks something, whatever, our natural 219 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: response is to get angry right and we lay on 220 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: the guilt because we want them to understand and recognize 221 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 2: the price that that mistake has cost. And yet you 222 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: already knew it. Yes you're an adult, but it doesn't 223 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: matter whether you're an adult or a child. You recognize 224 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: and feel the guilt and the weight of that mistake. 225 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: So let me share to other egs apples from our family. 226 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: We've shared this on the podcast many times, but if 227 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: you're a new listener, here's the short version. On day 228 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: one of our eldest daughter getting her l's, she asked you, Kylie, 229 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: if she could go for a drive, even though I'd 230 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: said I'll teach her tonight, Please say no, just take 231 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: her to school. You acquiesced, you gave in. She wrote 232 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: off the car within the first few minutes of being 233 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: behind the wheel, and we just gave her a hug 234 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: and said, you know what, mistakes happen. People matter, things don't. 235 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: And then the tough flub was you said, you're going 236 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: to get in the car and drive. 237 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: That's right, You're going to have to learn to drive 238 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: a manual and I will get another one by tonight 239 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: and we'll figure this out. We were poor UNI students. 240 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: We didn't have the resources for it, but we made 241 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: it happen, and now she can competently drive a manual 242 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: vehicle and has done for about ten years. The second example, though, 243 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: is a twenty one year old daughter who was driving 244 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: late at night in my brand new Kia Serato GT 245 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: and she hit a kangaroo and wrote my car off. 246 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: I think I'd done like twenty thousand kilometers on it. 247 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: All theirs it was only it was only very, very new, 248 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: and we had explained to all the kids that once 249 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: you get a driver's license, if you crash the car, 250 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: you will be responsible for the excess for the young 251 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: driver excess. We'll cover anything else that's required if necessary, 252 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: but you cover the excess, and we did ask her 253 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: to do that. There was nothing malicious. It was an accident. 254 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: She can't control the kangaroo. She was being attentive. But 255 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: she was twenty one years old, she had a part 256 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: time job, she had money in the bank, and we 257 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: just said, this one's not on us insurance. We'll cover 258 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: the rest of the car, but you had the crash 259 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: and there is a price to be paid. I don't 260 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: know if we did the right thing by the way. 261 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: Maybe we did, maybe we didn't. As I'm sharing the story, 262 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm feeling quite guilty about the fact that we charged 263 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: a twenty one year old a young driver excess. Maybe 264 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: we shouldn't have, but in that case, we thought, well, 265 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: what needs to happen here. Our daughter needs to understand 266 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: that there are costs associated with crashing a car, and 267 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: she's very lucky that with a brand new car, a 268 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars car, it's only going to cost her 269 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: two and a half grand. 270 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 2: When I think about all of these scenarios that we've 271 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: spoken about, to me, it always comes down to the 272 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: age of the child, the circumstances we find ourselves, and 273 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: what's actually happened. So I don't feel guilty that we 274 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: charged our twenty one year old the excess because we 275 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 2: had explained to her that part of the risk of 276 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: driving a car was that you could be in an accident, 277 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: and whether or not you were responsible for that accident 278 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: or not, there is an exit there is an excess. 279 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: So she understood the risks. 280 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: And she was older and she had the cash. Although 281 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: it's still really hurt her. 282 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: It really hurt her. Yeah, but she learned really important lessons. 283 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: And I think that so often as parents we want 284 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: to save our kids from having these experiences and learning well. 285 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: I mean, we had another daughter who had three crashes 286 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: and that ended up costing her about eight thousand dollars 287 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: and we did not lift her out of that. We 288 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: just said, you forgot to put the handbrake on, or 289 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: you drive up the back of somebody or whatever. The 290 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: third one I can't even remember the third one now, 291 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: and we just said, this is the price of driving 292 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: a car and having an accident, and unfortunately you will 293 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: have to carry that cost. Here's the thing problem solving again. 294 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: Instead of saying what consequences should impose, we want to 295 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: ask what does this child need? How can I help 296 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: them learn? What problem are we solving together? And so 297 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: we've there's value in having the conversation ahead of time. 298 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: With some things you can like driving a car, but 299 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: there are also accidents. I just want to emphasize this. 300 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes that problem solving may include reparations but it should 301 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: be worked out together. If our children through a controller 302 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: at a TV. Sorry, we're playing a game and a 303 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: controllers slipped out of their hand and hit a TV 304 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: and broke it in a friend's home and we found 305 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: out about it, I would say to the friends, guys, 306 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: this is a really awkward and tricky situation. I'm not 307 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: sure the best thing to do here, but i would 308 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: like my child to make some form of a contribution 309 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: to reparations here, and I'd love to bring them in 310 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: on it. What do you think would be appropriate? Like, 311 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: can they wash cars and mow lawns for a few weeks? 312 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: They Can they do something here that's going to help. 313 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: I can't expect an eight year old to buy a 314 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: new three thousand dollars teave, And as the parent, I 315 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: don't necessarily feel responsible for it. The kids were playing 316 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: a game. Accidents happen, But I'd like my child too 317 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: make sure that they're not in blame, excuse, in denial, 318 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: and to have a level of ownership, accountability, and responsibility. 319 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: But that's what's so important about this process. It's about the. 320 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Conversation, about the conversations. 321 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: It's actually about the conversation. 322 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, not how much money comes out of one wallet 323 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: and goes into another. There we go. We solved the 324 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: problems of the world today. I really enjoyed that. That's 325 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: a fun thought exercise. I'm glad we've got to talk 326 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: about that one. Hey. Tomorrow on the pod, we're going 327 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: to talk about those tricky conversations that we encourage you 328 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: to have with your kids on Sundays. We've got a 329 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: tough question coming up that's tomorrow, and a whole lot more. 330 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: Oh Mummy, wine time. I've got an interview on Wednesday 331 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: with Victoria Vanstone, the host of the Sober Awkward podcast. 332 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 2: If you don't mind a tipple, I. 333 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: Think that you might enjoy that chat and a whole 334 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: lot more. All happening this week on the pod. Thanks 335 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: so much to Justin Rulan, who produces the podcast, Mim 336 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: Hammond's Looks after reesa admin and other support and if 337 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: you'd like more info about making your family happier, we'd 338 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: love for you to visit us at happy families dot 339 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: com dot you or check out our socials Doctor Justin 340 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: Colson's Happy Families on Instagram and Facebook.