Speaker 1: In December twenty fourteen, a lone gunman held eighteen people
Speaker 1: hostage in a cafe in Sydney, and, like anyone watching
Speaker 1: the sixteen hour standoff unfold was absolutely devastating for journalists
Speaker 1: and TV host Melissa Doyle. But despite the heartache and
Speaker 1: the terror, Melissa didn't collapse into despair or break down
Speaker 1: into a torrent of tears because she knew she had
Speaker 1: a job to do. Mel is the poster woman for professionalism,
Speaker 1: whether it's remaining composed even when covering traumatic events on
Speaker 1: the news, or continuing to carefully critique her work decades
Speaker 1: into her career, but naturally, her close contact with the
Speaker 1: extremes of the human experience has fundamentally changed the way
Speaker 1: she works. My name is doctor Emanthey. I'm an organizational
Speaker 1: psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And
Speaker 1: this is how I work A show about how to
Speaker 1: help you do your best work. Mel recently released her
Speaker 1: latest book called fifteen Seconds of Brave, where she writes
Speaker 1: about some of the most resilient and inspiring people that
Speaker 1: she has met during her career. And I wanted to
Speaker 1: know how writing a book about extreme bravery had changed
Speaker 1: her and the way she approaches her life and work.
Speaker 2: I think I've always, just as a journalist, been drawn
Speaker 2: to those types of stories of people that have done
Speaker 2: extraordinary things and shown courage and bravery and the strength
Speaker 2: of the human spirit. We never fully recognize what we're
Speaker 2: capable of until our back is up against the walls.
Speaker 2: So they're the stories that I've always loved to tell
Speaker 2: more than anything. So I think over the course of
Speaker 2: my career, I've been naturally drawn to those sort of
Speaker 2: people events, and then this book just felt like the
Speaker 2: comp nation of that another way to tell it. So
Speaker 2: I feel like I've absorbed a little bit from everybody
Speaker 2: over thirty plus years of doing stories like this. You know,
Speaker 2: you sort of you meet somebody and take a little
Speaker 2: tiny bit, and I think every single story has changed me.
Speaker 2: Every person has changed me that I've ever encountered.
Speaker 1: I imagine that it must be quite useful for keeping things
Speaker 1: in perspective. Like I know, I'm sort of going through
Speaker 1: a minor stress at work this week, but it feels
Speaker 1: really major and i feel like I'm losing perspective. But
Speaker 1: I'd love to know for you, given you do encounter
Speaker 1: these incredibly extreme stories and situations just through your work.
Speaker 1: How that impacts on I guess how how you see,
Speaker 1: you know, problems and challenges when they arise in your
Speaker 1: own life.
Speaker 2: Definitely, my entire career has given me perspective. You know,
Speaker 2: I've stood in floods and bushfires, and you know, I've
Speaker 2: seen I've seen the worst of mother nature and at
Speaker 2: those times, I've seen the best of human nature. And
Speaker 2: that's all always a really important perspective. So yes, it
Speaker 2: certainly does remind me, if ever I'm having a wobbly
Speaker 2: moment or a bad day, to bring that perspective back.
Speaker 2: But I also think it's really important to never compare.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's about saying someone's problem or somebody's
Speaker 2: challenge is bigger or different to somebody else's. I think
Speaker 2: it's really important to acknowledge that when it's yours and
Speaker 2: you're in it, you're in it, and whether someone's going
Speaker 2: through something bigger or different is actually irrelevant to how
Speaker 2: you're feeling at that time. So for me particularly, this
Speaker 2: book was more about little tips, little bits of wisdom
Speaker 2: that I could sort of harness from somebody who had
Speaker 2: been through something significant and what they could teach us.
Speaker 2: So then the perspective for a reader is that notion of, well,
Speaker 2: if I'm going through this, you know what feels big.
Speaker 2: But in the scheme of the world is fairly small,
Speaker 2: and someone has gone through something that is so extraordinary,
Speaker 2: I can't even begin to them. What did they learn?
Speaker 2: And if they could get through that, then maybe I
Speaker 2: can get through this.
Speaker 1: What's it like for you? Like, I'd love to hear
Speaker 1: an example where you know, there's been a stressor in
Speaker 1: your life, and how does that work in the life
Speaker 1: of Meldoyle When you've got all these different stories that
Speaker 1: that you've seen and that you've covered through your career,
Speaker 1: and you're in the middle of your own stressor, Like,
Speaker 1: what's that thought process or the sort of practical strategies
Speaker 1: that you go to to help yourself move through those
Speaker 1: difficult times.
Speaker 2: I try to break it down. I liken it too.
Speaker 2: I'm a four wheel drive stuck in the mud and
Speaker 2: my wheels are spinning in the bog and I can't
Speaker 2: actually get a grip. And in my mind, if I
Speaker 2: have that analogy, it sort of just centers me and
Speaker 2: I'm okay, what do I do? What do I do?
Speaker 2: Let's just shut the engine off for a minute, Let's
Speaker 2: look at the situation. What can we do? So I
Speaker 2: you know, for me, I get a bit overwhelmed sometimes
Speaker 2: just by the sheer enormity of all the things I
Speaker 2: take on my own worst enemy completely and I fully
Speaker 2: recognize that, but I can't change it, unfortunately, and every
Speaker 2: now and then I just get a little bit overwhelmed
Speaker 2: by what's on. So for me, I've always broken it down.
Speaker 2: I get myself to the following weekend. I look at
Speaker 2: the five days in front of me and go, Okay,
Speaker 2: what have I got to get through? What have I
Speaker 2: got to do? What's important? What can I drop off
Speaker 2: the list? What do I need to do first? I'm
Speaker 2: a big list maker. I have to do lists everywhere.
Speaker 2: I have post it notes everywhere. I'm constantly putting lines
Speaker 2: through things. But yeah, just I think bringing it back
Speaker 2: to Okay, what have I got to do first? What
Speaker 2: has to be done right now today? What can I
Speaker 2: handle tomorrow? What's my daughter taught me this fabulous saying
Speaker 2: of you know, that's future Melissa's problem. So I try
Speaker 2: to remind myself that, Okay, that can wait till next
Speaker 2: week when things are a little quieter. Let's deal with
Speaker 2: what we've got to deal with today.
Speaker 1: Talk me through your to do list process or processes.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a total shambles. So it's a big jotting pad.
Speaker 2: There's a couple on the go, which is really bad
Speaker 2: because then sometimes I double up and I can't remember
Speaker 2: what's where. So look, I will admit I'm pretty shocking.
Speaker 2: I've got it to do list on a notepad. I've
Speaker 2: got it to do list on my phone. I love
Speaker 2: post it notes to remind me. It's like my prior.
Speaker 2: If it makes it to a post it note, it
Speaker 2: really has to happen straight away today. But I just
Speaker 2: have to write everything down. And I feel like that's
Speaker 2: my way of if I take it out of my
Speaker 2: brain and put it on a piece of paper, I've
Speaker 2: cleared the files up in my head to fit other
Speaker 2: things in. So yeah, and my gosh, there's nothing more
Speaker 2: satisfying than putting a big fat line through something on
Speaker 2: your to do list that you've done. I actually really
Speaker 2: love that feeling and then starting a new page. So yeah,
Speaker 2: every now and then I sit down and have what
Speaker 2: I call a life ad mid morning where I do
Speaker 2: all of those really boring nitty gritty things that I
Speaker 2: have this really shocking habit of putting off as long
Speaker 2: as possible. So sometimes I just make a good cup
Speaker 2: of coffee, bite the bullet, and go, ok, I'm into
Speaker 2: the whole lot today and get it all done and dusted.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's kind of satisfying.
Speaker 1: So travel has been a huge part of your life
Speaker 1: as a journalist and as a presenter. What are some
Speaker 1: of the best travel hacks or routines that you've developed
Speaker 1: that have served you really well.
Speaker 2: As soon as I get on the plane, I'm mentally
Speaker 2: in the time zone of where I'm going, so I'll
Speaker 2: change my watch instantly before we even take off. I
Speaker 2: find it. Look, I'll be honest. It depends if you're international.
Speaker 2: It really depends where you sit in the plane. I'll
Speaker 2: be perfectly honest. And when I get to sit up
Speaker 2: the good fancy end. When I've done a work trip,
Speaker 2: I actually look at that as a gift and I
Speaker 2: make the most of it. And so I will structure
Speaker 2: a bit of time at the beginning to get some
Speaker 2: work done. But then I will also look at it
Speaker 2: as a little mini break and Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 2: binge watch some fabulous movies, and I'm actually going to
Speaker 2: enjoy this quiet time without the phone and make the
Speaker 2: most of it. Because more often than not, when we
Speaker 2: would travel with Sunday Night, we hit the ground running.
Speaker 2: We'd land in another country and you get all the
Speaker 2: gear and literally just go straight into it. So I
Speaker 2: learned that I would have to make the most of
Speaker 2: that time if I could on a plane. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there's many times where you know, you don't always get
Speaker 2: to do that because there's a lot of work to
Speaker 2: be done. There's loads of research. I might be heading
Speaker 2: off to do an interview somewhere, and I'm a little
Speaker 2: bit of a last minute kind of person. So sometimes
Speaker 2: I'll say to myself, Oh, I've got to research a
Speaker 2: particular person for an interview, and I know that I've
Speaker 2: got a seventeen hour flight to get there, so I
Speaker 2: get all my notes ready and then go great the flight.
Speaker 2: That's it, seventeen hours of full on research and get
Speaker 2: it done there. So it just depends what I'm doing
Speaker 2: and where I'm going and what I need to do
Speaker 2: in that time. But it's a really good chunk of
Speaker 2: time where no one disturbs you. So I don't know
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes an hour on a plane is
Speaker 2: kind of equivalent to two hours anywhere else as far
Speaker 2: as achieving things.
Speaker 1: Now, a large part of your job has involved interviewing people,
Speaker 1: and you've interviewed major stars from like Tom Cruise and
Speaker 1: Katie Perry to people that have just gone through, you know,
Speaker 1: the most amazing and also harrowing situations. What's your approach
Speaker 1: in those first few minutes to building report and trust
Speaker 1: with someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, the first few minutes can make or break
Speaker 2: an interview. It's certainly a case of ensuring that you
Speaker 2: start off with something gentle and make sure that they're relaxed.
Speaker 2: And it very much is dependent on the topic. Obviously,
Speaker 2: if it's a celebrity chat, it's quite a different feel
Speaker 2: to if it's an interview like I did for my
Speaker 2: book where someone's recounting their trauma. But I think if
Speaker 2: I've had if I've had the chance to meet them
Speaker 2: beforehand and I've had conversation with them before the interview,
Speaker 2: it's definitely ensuring that I have their trust. That's the
Speaker 2: most important thing, which is very different from a celebrity
Speaker 2: interview that you know, like the scene out of you know,
Speaker 2: was it notting Hill where they rock up and do
Speaker 2: the horse and hound, and it's kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: one of those interviews where everyone's turning through when you've
Speaker 2: got ten minutes. They're very different, you know, you kind
Speaker 2: of rock up, do your questions get out. But I
Speaker 2: think to do an interview where it's a Sunday night
Speaker 2: situation or it's a book situation. You know, I've usually
Speaker 2: had some communication in advance and then just ensuring that
Speaker 2: they there at ease, you know. But yeah, so for me,
Speaker 2: it's my research is my biggest thing. I just will research, research, research,
Speaker 2: to the point where I feel like I know everything
Speaker 2: about the person or the event and what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: And I can almost tell you their answers that I
Speaker 2: know where they're going. And then it's sort of my
Speaker 2: I almost like I put that into one side of
Speaker 2: my brain and then I just go with the flow
Speaker 2: of where we're going. And if the interview goes down
Speaker 2: an entirely different path, that's even better.
Speaker 1: I want to dig into a few of those things.
Speaker 1: So let's first dive into those first few minutes. So
Speaker 1: you said, you know, maybe you'll start off with a
Speaker 1: kind of easier question or something to ease them into it,
Speaker 1: or even just.
Speaker 2: A totally different I interviewed Serena Williams the other day
Speaker 2: so quickly doing all my research, and I noticed that
Speaker 2: on her Instagram hand or she describes herself as mother
Speaker 2: of Olympia, and so I thought perfect. So the first
Speaker 2: question was asking about her daughter, and she just beamed,
Speaker 2: and she was just relaxed, and she was happy, and
Speaker 2: she was clearly talking about something that she was entirely
Speaker 2: in love with and passionate about, and that just I
Speaker 2: think breaks the ice and settles her in and then
Speaker 2: we can go into other areas and naturally follow the path.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just that having that nice. It's like
Speaker 2: when you meet someone, isn't It's the same as a conversation.
Speaker 2: You're hardly going to walk up to someone and just
Speaker 2: drill down to the heart of it instantly. It's always Hi,
Speaker 2: how are you? What a beautiful day? Love what you're wearing?
Speaker 2: You know, are you here walking your dog? Whatever it
Speaker 2: might be. But I just think it's that it's polite
Speaker 2: to do it that way.
Speaker 1: It does make sense. Now you mentioned the importance of
Speaker 1: listening to do a good interview, and you know, I
Speaker 1: think everyone that's listening to this interview, I'm sure like
Speaker 1: there's really no jobs that I can think of where
Speaker 1: being a better listener is not going to help you immensely.
Speaker 1: I would imagine for you, a lot of it is
Speaker 1: just completely unconscious and ingrained in terms of how you listen.
Speaker 1: But if you were to unpack it, if you were
Speaker 1: to teach someone what you're doing to really really listen
Speaker 1: to what the person that you're interviewing or that you're
Speaker 1: talking to is saying, how would you describe that? What
Speaker 1: are the things that you're doing.
Speaker 2: That's probably one of the hardest questions I think I've
Speaker 2: ever been asked. Yeah, I think it is intently listening
Speaker 2: to what they're saying and how they're saying it, and
Speaker 2: also reading between the lines everything from a person's body
Speaker 2: language to how they react to a particular question. So
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of some examples. I remember many
Speaker 2: years ago interviewing Bernard Tomic after he had that Wimbledon
Speaker 2: you know, tantrum, and he was one of the most
Speaker 2: hated men in the country, and we jumped on a
Speaker 2: plane flew to Miami to interview him, and it was
Speaker 2: straight after all of this had just happened, and he
Speaker 2: was just so defensive, you know, he was just instantly
Speaker 2: in that I'm atomic and I'm defensive and this is
Speaker 2: who I am, and I don't care what you all think,
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. And I conducted the interview and
Speaker 2: went along and almost you just have to let somebody
Speaker 2: say what they want to say. You know, if someone's
Speaker 2: going to sit down in front of a journalist, they've
Speaker 2: usually got a reason that they want to do it.
Speaker 2: So I think very much in the beginning, it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, here are the questions that I know
Speaker 2: that you want to hear us, so that you can
Speaker 2: say what it is that you want to say. And
Speaker 2: then when all of that's out of the way, is
Speaker 2: my chance to then actually take a deeper dive and
Speaker 2: peel back those layers and ask him a little bit
Speaker 2: more about why and how and watching his reaction. And
Speaker 2: I think I use that interview as an example because
Speaker 2: halfway through I had my laptop ready to go and
Speaker 2: I had a clip on there of an interview that
Speaker 2: he had done when he was about ten, talking about
Speaker 2: the famous tennis player that he wanted to beat. He
Speaker 2: wanted to be the best in the world and his
Speaker 2: dreams and hopes of tennis. So I played that to him.
Speaker 2: Everything about him changed his body language, his emotions, his demeanor,
Speaker 2: the whole lot. It absolutely stopped him in his tracks.
Speaker 2: And first of all, I didn't even have to ask
Speaker 2: him anything. It was just you know, obviously with a
Speaker 2: television camera, it's quite different to an interview that you're
Speaker 2: doing where people can't see us, but having the camera
Speaker 2: on him to watch his face and how he reacted
Speaker 2: to seeing himself talking about his hopes and dreams as
Speaker 2: a tennis player, and then just really gently letting him
Speaker 2: talk about it, and it was a fascinating I felt
Speaker 2: like we could just got two totally different people, you know,
Speaker 2: the sort of the blustery ego at the beginning, and
Speaker 2: then there was a glimpse of the real him deep down,
Speaker 2: who was still a little boy in so many ways.
Speaker 2: So I think it's just very gently following along and
Speaker 2: seeing where they go and hopefully having a moment where
Speaker 2: you do see a little bit of vulnerability, or you know,
Speaker 2: asking a question where someone actually rolls their head, you know,
Speaker 2: roles laughing, and you see their real self. I guess,
Speaker 2: rather than necessarily the public persona that's been so carefully crafted.
Speaker 2: It's always really hard when you interview somebody who's had
Speaker 2: a lot of media training. And it's funny. I always say,
Speaker 2: when anyone else asks me about it, yes, by all means,
Speaker 2: get media training. It's fantastic, but not too much, you know,
Speaker 2: not to the point where you're not necessarily authentic anymore,
Speaker 2: or you're saying the lines that you think people want
Speaker 2: to hear, Because I think that's really quite apparent when
Speaker 2: somebody is this perfectly crafted persona and I see politicians
Speaker 2: you often see and I think, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 2: just want you to kill yourself laughing or say something,
Speaker 2: you know, just go off the cuff. So yeah, just
Speaker 2: following along and seeing where it goes.
Speaker 1: We will be back with Melson talking about what the
Speaker 1: shift was like from being in one of the highest
Speaker 1: profile jobs in media as the co host of breakfast
Speaker 1: show Sunrise to taking a step back from that intense spotlight.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way
Speaker 1: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that
Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me
Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving
Speaker 1: through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for
Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot cod That's how I work dot co.
Speaker 1: I would love to know how your life, in particularly
Speaker 1: your work life, has changed from going from having such
Speaker 1: a high profile job in the like this massive spotlight
Speaker 1: when you were doing Sunrise for I think like about
Speaker 1: fifteen years. I think all that for you you did
Speaker 1: it for to still being a presence on our screens
Speaker 1: and our radio but not under that intense spotlight. How
Speaker 1: has that shift been for you?
Speaker 2: Do you know when I was doing Sunrise and when
Speaker 2: I've done any more high profile roles. I wouldn't say
Speaker 2: that I'm not aware of it, because of course I am,
Speaker 2: but I don't. It doesn't dominate the way I go
Speaker 2: about what I do. I just I've always felt you
Speaker 2: cannot live your life and you cannot live your job,
Speaker 2: your career. I couldn't with thinking every second of the
Speaker 2: day that people were scrutinizing, analyzing, watching they were but
Speaker 2: that didn't fill my thoughts, makes sense, So you know,
Speaker 2: I would go about life normally. I would do things
Speaker 2: the way that I normally would. I would conduct myself
Speaker 2: in the way that I normally would. I've always looked
Speaker 2: at it that, you know, I've had an extraordinary job,
Speaker 2: but it's a job, but a job that came with
Speaker 2: a profile. So yes, there was a few extra elements
Speaker 2: that that brought, But at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: it was still a job that I wanted to do
Speaker 2: to the best of my ability, and whether it was
Speaker 2: with people watching or not was sometimes even it was irrelevant.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm that person that no one's ever put
Speaker 2: more pressure on me than I put on myself every day.
Speaker 2: I turn up on time every day, I want to
Speaker 2: do my absolute best. I would judge my stories, sometimes
Speaker 2: quite harshly, you know. I feel like I was the
Speaker 2: first one to analyze how I did an interview or
Speaker 2: how I told a story, or when I did that day,
Speaker 2: whether I think I did it to the best of
Speaker 2: my ability. I did it with decency and respect and
Speaker 2: kindness and honesty in all of those factors. So yeah,
Speaker 2: they motivated me irrespective of having this light on me.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't think that's changed now that I'm
Speaker 2: It's a little less intense, but I still think I'm
Speaker 2: motivated by the same things. I still conduct myself the
Speaker 2: same way, I still have the same standards that I
Speaker 2: hold myself to, So yeah, I hope that that's never
Speaker 2: actually clouded my thinking. Look, I won't take the bins
Speaker 2: out in my pajamas, I'll be honest. But but you know, otherwise,
Speaker 2: it really hasn't. It hasn't dominated who I am and
Speaker 2: what I do and yeah, where I go.
Speaker 1: How do you decide how much to share of yourself
Speaker 1: as a public figure and what to keep private?
Speaker 2: Sharing myself was always okay. I was very mindful when
Speaker 2: my children were younger, particularly teenagers and my husband. I
Speaker 2: feel like keeping my family. Look, everyone knows my kids,
Speaker 2: they've grown up, they've seen me pregnant on television. You know.
Speaker 2: I definitely shared huge parts of my life. But then
Speaker 2: every now and then I'd sort of just pull back,
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not one to do family social
Speaker 2: posts all the time, or if it's my wedding anniversary,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I might pop a photo up, but
Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to always do it. I
Speaker 2: don't have to share everything with people. But I think
Speaker 2: there's been certain parts that I haven't been able to hide.
Speaker 2: You know, I can remember the very first time I
Speaker 2: cried on television, and I was mortified because it just
Speaker 2: felt so unprofessional. But then I realized it, it's just
Speaker 2: who I am. I'm a crier, I'm an emotional person.
Speaker 2: And I also am really grateful that I can still
Speaker 2: feel enough that I have that empathy and that I
Speaker 2: cry the day that I don't. I feel like if
Speaker 2: I've become that hardened by my job, it's probably time
Speaker 2: to do something else. So I feel a little bit,
Speaker 2: like you know, viewers have been. I've been so lucky that,
Speaker 2: you know, people say hello in the street all the
Speaker 2: time as though they know me, and they do, and
Speaker 2: I feel that's been such a privilege and that's afforded
Speaker 2: me the jobs that I've had. And it kind of
Speaker 2: goes both ways. So for me personally, there's probably not
Speaker 2: much that people don't know, and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2: Don't I don't try to hide it. I think we're all,
Speaker 2: you know, we're all pretty similar and normal, flawed human beings,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1: I remember I interviewed Sandra Sully on How I Work
Speaker 1: quite a few years ago, and I was talking with
Speaker 1: her about feedback and how she sort of thinks about
Speaker 1: her own performance, you know, as a news reader. And
Speaker 1: I was struck by the fact that she said she
Speaker 1: will still watch herself back and critique herself even now,
Speaker 1: like you know, thirty years into the role. I'm wondering
Speaker 1: for you. There's obviously so much external feedback that you receive,
Speaker 1: but internally, how how do you continue to grow? And
Speaker 1: I guess how do you you critique yourself? You know,
Speaker 1: in a way that works for you and does grow you.
Speaker 2: Did I do a good job? Did I care for
Speaker 2: the person that I interviewed? Did I tell the story
Speaker 2: to the best of my ability? Was I true to them?
Speaker 2: Was I true to the circumstances I'm you know, if
Speaker 2: I'm covering an event that's happening, if I'm doing something
Speaker 2: like my gosh, I remember when I was covering the
Speaker 2: Linked Cafe siege and the sense of responsibility I felt
Speaker 2: when I was doing that to people watching at home,
Speaker 2: to the families of the hostages. It was so mindful
Speaker 2: that the television might have been on in the cafe
Speaker 2: for all I knew, and man Monus could have been watching,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't going to give anything away that would
Speaker 2: indicate any of the police presents around you know, I
Speaker 2: was just so mindful of every single word that came
Speaker 2: out of my mouth. And so sometimes when I've done
Speaker 2: a story or I've covered breaking news, it's me analyzing
Speaker 2: did I do it? Did I take my responsibility carefully?
Speaker 2: Did I do it properly? Did I treat it with
Speaker 2: respect and dignity? Was I fair? Was I balanced? You know,
Speaker 2: I've as a journalist where essentially, you know, sitting on
Speaker 2: the fence is what we do. I'm not a commentator,
Speaker 2: so I need to be unbiased. I need to properly
Speaker 2: tell a story. So yeah, I'm always the first to
Speaker 2: scrutinize my work. My book I've just written. I ran
Speaker 2: every single word and every story past each of my
Speaker 2: subjects because I'm sharing their stories and I wanted to
Speaker 2: know that they were okay with it, and that was
Speaker 2: probably my biggest driver in that that they were comfortable.
Speaker 2: And look, I could probably read over it a hundred
Speaker 2: more times and find things that I'd want to change
Speaker 2: or words that I'd want to tinker around with, But
Speaker 2: essentially it's asking myself, did I do it well? Did
Speaker 2: I do it properly? And am I comfortable in what
Speaker 2: I did today?
Speaker 1: With something like covering the Link Cafe siege, and I
Speaker 1: mean I was a viewer, but I feel like, gosh,
Speaker 1: my memories of that are so clear. I would love
Speaker 1: to know for you, how do you manage your emotional
Speaker 1: state when you've got such an important job to do
Speaker 1: and you're thinking about every word that's coming out of
Speaker 1: your mouth. I can't even imagine what the emotions were
Speaker 1: like for you.
Speaker 2: I think the primary driver is remembering I have a
Speaker 2: job to do at that moment in time. I have
Speaker 2: news to deliver. I've got to pass on information. There
Speaker 2: are people around both the city, the state, and the
Speaker 2: country who are terrified, like we all are. My job
Speaker 2: is to disseminate information. It's to tell the viewer what's happening,
Speaker 2: what's going on, say in a bushmire or flood, where
Speaker 2: is it at, what's the situation? Where can you seek help?
Speaker 2: What do you need to know about this moment in time?
Speaker 2: And that I think keeps me very focused. Knowing I
Speaker 2: have a purpose is a big help. I can all
Speaker 2: almost It's almost like I can hold it together while
Speaker 2: I'm while I'm in that zone, and then when I'm
Speaker 2: off air and I come home all full apart and
Speaker 2: that's okay, I'm allowed. I'm allowed to then. But at
Speaker 2: that moment in time, you know, I have a job
Speaker 2: to do, and I think the word purpose that's what
Speaker 2: keeps me going Because people are relying on the information
Speaker 2: that we're passing on. It's really important. So yeah, you
Speaker 2: sort of go into this, I guess this professional zone,
Speaker 2: and yeah, park the tears for when I get home.
Speaker 1: I imagine, in terms of where you're at in your
Speaker 1: career now, you would get asked to be a mentor
Speaker 1: to many people. And I'm sure that you have given
Speaker 1: a lot of advice. What advice do you find yourself
Speaker 1: giving again and again and again.
Speaker 2: I think for me, the most important thing is recognizing
Speaker 2: who you are, because and I say this to my kids,
Speaker 2: we're all cogs in a wheel, but we're all we're
Speaker 2: all vital, but we're all a little bit different. We
Speaker 2: all have something else, something different to bring. And I remember,
Speaker 2: you know, in my early days as a journalist and
Speaker 2: watching so many extraordinary women who I admired and thought,
Speaker 2: I just want to grow up and be like you,
Speaker 2: and one day recognizing I never would be like them.
Speaker 2: I can only ever be who I am. So it's
Speaker 2: a case of I think actually looking at yourself and
Speaker 2: working out what are my values, what is important to me?
Speaker 2: Who am I that's different to everybody else in my industry?
Speaker 2: What do I bring that makes me me, that makes
Speaker 2: me you know, different, special, whatever? And any industry. I
Speaker 2: think this applies to you. Know, what is your role
Speaker 2: and what makes you that a little bit different to
Speaker 2: somebody else and owning it? You know, I when I
Speaker 2: mentioned that the first time I cried on air, and
Speaker 2: I was mortified, and then I thought, but that's who
Speaker 2: I am, So that's okay. I'm not going to pretend
Speaker 2: to be one of those really cool, calm kids that
Speaker 2: doesn't shed a tear and that can hold it all together.
Speaker 2: You know, that's just not who I am. So that's
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: On the flip side, what are some of the best
Speaker 1: pieces of advice that have been given to you that
Speaker 1: have really stuck.
Speaker 2: My husband taught me control the controllable best motto ever
Speaker 2: and I really and look, you can apply it in
Speaker 2: everything from sitting in peak hour traffic to stuff happening
Speaker 2: in life. But I do, I try really hard to
Speaker 2: just if I can't change it, if there's nothing I
Speaker 2: can do about it, I might just have to let
Speaker 2: that go or park that, and I hope you don't
Speaker 2: mind me swearing here, But okay, my other one is
Speaker 2: just shit happens. You know. Sometimes shit happens and you've
Speaker 2: got to deal with it, and it might be awful
Speaker 2: and it might not be what you want. I'm sorry
Speaker 2: to keep bringing it, but do I actually mean to
Speaker 2: bring it back to the book. But this is kind
Speaker 2: of where my headspace is at the moment. One of
Speaker 2: the women I interview in a Cat is the mom
Speaker 2: of a little boy who was born with a terminal
Speaker 2: illness and he's still alive to this day and he's extraordinary.
Speaker 2: But she talks about first of all, acceptance. It is
Speaker 2: what it is. You know. You can't waste energy and
Speaker 2: time sitting in a situation wishing it was something different,
Speaker 2: because that's just a waste. So except that it is
Speaker 2: what it is, and then what are you going to
Speaker 2: do about it? How do you move forward? And I
Speaker 2: think having the power to control how you feel about
Speaker 2: something moving forward and what you can actually do about
Speaker 2: it is really really strong. So yeah, I try very
Speaker 2: hard to put my energy into what I can change
Speaker 2: and alter and like go all the things that I
Speaker 2: can't easier said than done.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, I always feel like quite nervous when
Speaker 1: I'm interviewing someone who is who does this for their career.
Speaker 2: You're fantastic. It's a conversation.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask it also, given that you're
Speaker 1: probably doing a billion interviews a week on publicity for
Speaker 1: your new book, I would love to get feedback from you.
Speaker 1: What can I improves and what sort of keep doing nothing.
Speaker 1: I know you're fantastic.
Speaker 2: I mean you've done your research, and I've always found
Speaker 2: for me, if I've done my research, that's my confidence.
Speaker 2: You know. The times the only times I would get
Speaker 2: really nervous was if I was unprepared, if I hadn't
Speaker 2: made my notes, read everything I possibly could, if I
Speaker 2: didn't know just about everything I could about the person
Speaker 2: or the subject that I was covering. So clearly you've
Speaker 2: done that, and also big credit to your producer Liam.
Speaker 2: But it's a conversation. I always think the best interviews
Speaker 2: are simply a conversation, and the person that's on the
Speaker 2: other side doesn't feel like someone's throwing questions their way,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like we may as well be sitting
Speaker 2: together on account with a cup of tea and just
Speaker 2: having a chat. I mean, that's essentially what it is.
Speaker 2: So I think they're the nicest and the best interviews
Speaker 2: because you get a rapport with somebody and you just
Speaker 2: they feel comfortable. So hey, on this side of it,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'd much rather be doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2: It's so much easier. Trust me, I hate having to
Speaker 2: answer the questions. I'd rather ask them. But you've made
Speaker 2: me feel very comfortable and definitely being able to see
Speaker 2: your gorgeous smiling face help So yeah, it's just a
Speaker 2: lovely conversation. And I think too, You've got me thinking
Speaker 2: about a few things, which is really good. I kind
Speaker 2: of had a moment where I'm like, oh, oh, I
Speaker 2: got to put some thought into this one.
Speaker 1: Make you much. Thanks a well. Finally, for people that
Speaker 1: want to get their hands on a copy of fifteen
Speaker 1: Seconds of Brave, your new book, and connect with you
Speaker 1: in other ways, what is the best way for people
Speaker 1: to do that?
Speaker 2: Oh, I guess socials. Fifteen Seconds of Brave as a
Speaker 2: via is out from Penguin. It's available in all good
Speaker 2: and bad bookshops. I even did the audio version, which
Speaker 2: was very fun. I've never done that before, but like
Speaker 2: I was reading my kids a story again. So yeah,
Speaker 2: there's lots of ways. I just think it's all about connecting.
Speaker 2: It's exactly what you're doing, which is connecting with people
Speaker 2: telling stories. We do that as humans. We have from
Speaker 2: the beginning of time, sitting around campfires. You know. I
Speaker 2: think it's what separates us from other beings on this earth,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure they probably connect to in different ways.
Speaker 2: But we share stories with one another, I think, inspiring
Speaker 2: one another. And you know, the first thing you do
Speaker 2: when you've had a bad day, what do you do?
Speaker 2: You run your best girlfriend and have a good vent.
Speaker 2: It's just who we are. So I think, Yeah, more
Speaker 2: power to you for doing conversations like this and gathering
Speaker 2: little bits of wisdom and wise words from people, and yeah,
Speaker 2: sharing different stories. So it's been a pleasure. Thanks for
Speaker 2: having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show. Mel.
Speaker 1: I loved the motto that Mel's husband gave her of
Speaker 1: control the controllable. I'd heard it before, but you know
Speaker 1: when you rehear a phrase at a time when you
Speaker 1: really need it, Well, that's what I felt like when
Speaker 1: I did this interview with Mal a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of a really stressful week
Speaker 1: at work, and hearing that advice made me double down
Speaker 1: on what I could control and try not to focus
Speaker 1: so much on the things that I couldn't. Thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing part of your day with me by listening
Speaker 1: to How I Work. If you're keen for more tips
Speaker 1: on how to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn
Speaker 1: or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just search for
Speaker 1: Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on the traditional
Speaker 1: land of the Warrenery people, part of the cool And Nation.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful for being able to work and
Speaker 1: live on this beautiful land, and I want to pay
Speaker 1: my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. How I
Speaker 1: Work is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead
Speaker 1: Set Studios. The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan,
Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Nimba who did the audio
Speaker 1: mix and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.