1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: In December twenty fourteen, a lone gunman held eighteen people 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: hostage in a cafe in Sydney, and, like anyone watching 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: the sixteen hour standoff unfold was absolutely devastating for journalists 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: and TV host Melissa Doyle. But despite the heartache and 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: the terror, Melissa didn't collapse into despair or break down 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: into a torrent of tears because she knew she had 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: a job to do. Mel is the poster woman for professionalism, 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: whether it's remaining composed even when covering traumatic events on 9 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: the news, or continuing to carefully critique her work decades 10 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: into her career, but naturally, her close contact with the 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: extremes of the human experience has fundamentally changed the way 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: she works. My name is doctor Emanthey. I'm an organizational 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: this is how I work A show about how to 15 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: help you do your best work. Mel recently released her 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: latest book called fifteen Seconds of Brave, where she writes 17 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: about some of the most resilient and inspiring people that 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: she has met during her career. And I wanted to 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: know how writing a book about extreme bravery had changed 20 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: her and the way she approaches her life and work. 21 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: I think I've always, just as a journalist, been drawn 22 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 2: to those types of stories of people that have done 23 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 2: extraordinary things and shown courage and bravery and the strength 24 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: of the human spirit. We never fully recognize what we're 25 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 2: capable of until our back is up against the walls. 26 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: So they're the stories that I've always loved to tell 27 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: more than anything. So I think over the course of 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: my career, I've been naturally drawn to those sort of 29 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: people events, and then this book just felt like the 30 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: comp nation of that another way to tell it. So 31 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: I feel like I've absorbed a little bit from everybody 32 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: over thirty plus years of doing stories like this. You know, 33 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: you sort of you meet somebody and take a little 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: tiny bit, and I think every single story has changed me. 35 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 2: Every person has changed me that I've ever encountered. 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: I imagine that it must be quite useful for keeping things 37 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: in perspective. Like I know, I'm sort of going through 38 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: a minor stress at work this week, but it feels 39 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: really major and i feel like I'm losing perspective. But 40 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: I'd love to know for you, given you do encounter 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: these incredibly extreme stories and situations just through your work. 42 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: How that impacts on I guess how how you see, 43 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: you know, problems and challenges when they arise in your 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: own life. 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: Definitely, my entire career has given me perspective. You know, 46 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: I've stood in floods and bushfires, and you know, I've 47 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: seen I've seen the worst of mother nature and at 48 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: those times, I've seen the best of human nature. And 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: that's all always a really important perspective. So yes, it 50 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: certainly does remind me, if ever I'm having a wobbly 51 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: moment or a bad day, to bring that perspective back. 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 2: But I also think it's really important to never compare. 53 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: I don't think it's about saying someone's problem or somebody's 54 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: challenge is bigger or different to somebody else's. I think 55 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: it's really important to acknowledge that when it's yours and 56 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 2: you're in it, you're in it, and whether someone's going 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: through something bigger or different is actually irrelevant to how 58 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: you're feeling at that time. So for me particularly, this 59 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: book was more about little tips, little bits of wisdom 60 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: that I could sort of harness from somebody who had 61 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: been through something significant and what they could teach us. 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: So then the perspective for a reader is that notion of, well, 63 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: if I'm going through this, you know what feels big. 64 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: But in the scheme of the world is fairly small, 65 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: and someone has gone through something that is so extraordinary, 66 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: I can't even begin to them. What did they learn? 67 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: And if they could get through that, then maybe I 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: can get through this. 69 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: What's it like for you? Like, I'd love to hear 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: an example where you know, there's been a stressor in 71 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: your life, and how does that work in the life 72 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: of Meldoyle When you've got all these different stories that 73 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: that you've seen and that you've covered through your career, 74 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: and you're in the middle of your own stressor, Like, 75 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: what's that thought process or the sort of practical strategies 76 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: that you go to to help yourself move through those 77 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: difficult times. 78 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: I try to break it down. I liken it too. 79 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: I'm a four wheel drive stuck in the mud and 80 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: my wheels are spinning in the bog and I can't 81 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: actually get a grip. And in my mind, if I 82 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: have that analogy, it sort of just centers me and 83 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: I'm okay, what do I do? What do I do? 84 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: Let's just shut the engine off for a minute, Let's 85 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: look at the situation. What can we do? So I 86 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: you know, for me, I get a bit overwhelmed sometimes 87 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: just by the sheer enormity of all the things I 88 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: take on my own worst enemy completely and I fully 89 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: recognize that, but I can't change it, unfortunately, and every 90 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: now and then I just get a little bit overwhelmed 91 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 2: by what's on. So for me, I've always broken it down. 92 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: I get myself to the following weekend. I look at 93 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: the five days in front of me and go, Okay, 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: what have I got to get through? What have I 95 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: got to do? What's important? What can I drop off 96 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: the list? What do I need to do first? I'm 97 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 2: a big list maker. I have to do lists everywhere. 98 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: I have post it notes everywhere. I'm constantly putting lines 99 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: through things. But yeah, just I think bringing it back 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: to Okay, what have I got to do first? What 101 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: has to be done right now today? What can I 102 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: handle tomorrow? What's my daughter taught me this fabulous saying 103 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: of you know, that's future Melissa's problem. So I try 104 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 2: to remind myself that, Okay, that can wait till next 105 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: week when things are a little quieter. Let's deal with 106 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: what we've got to deal with today. 107 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: Talk me through your to do list process or processes. 108 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: Oh, it's a total shambles. So it's a big jotting pad. 109 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 2: There's a couple on the go, which is really bad 110 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 2: because then sometimes I double up and I can't remember 111 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: what's where. So look, I will admit I'm pretty shocking. 112 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: I've got it to do list on a notepad. I've 113 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: got it to do list on my phone. I love 114 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: post it notes to remind me. It's like my prior. 115 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: If it makes it to a post it note, it 116 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 2: really has to happen straight away today. But I just 117 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 2: have to write everything down. And I feel like that's 118 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 2: my way of if I take it out of my 119 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 2: brain and put it on a piece of paper, I've 120 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: cleared the files up in my head to fit other 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: things in. So yeah, and my gosh, there's nothing more 122 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: satisfying than putting a big fat line through something on 123 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: your to do list that you've done. I actually really 124 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: love that feeling and then starting a new page. So yeah, 125 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: every now and then I sit down and have what 126 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: I call a life ad mid morning where I do 127 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: all of those really boring nitty gritty things that I 128 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: have this really shocking habit of putting off as long 129 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 2: as possible. So sometimes I just make a good cup 130 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: of coffee, bite the bullet, and go, ok, I'm into 131 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: the whole lot today and get it all done and dusted. 132 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's kind of satisfying. 133 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: So travel has been a huge part of your life 134 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: as a journalist and as a presenter. What are some 135 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: of the best travel hacks or routines that you've developed 136 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: that have served you really well. 137 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: As soon as I get on the plane, I'm mentally 138 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: in the time zone of where I'm going, so I'll 139 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: change my watch instantly before we even take off. I 140 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: find it. Look, I'll be honest. It depends if you're international. 141 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: It really depends where you sit in the plane. I'll 142 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: be perfectly honest. And when I get to sit up 143 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: the good fancy end. When I've done a work trip, 144 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: I actually look at that as a gift and I 145 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: make the most of it. And so I will structure 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: a bit of time at the beginning to get some 147 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: work done. But then I will also look at it 148 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: as a little mini break and Okay, I'm going to 149 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 2: binge watch some fabulous movies, and I'm actually going to 150 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: enjoy this quiet time without the phone and make the 151 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: most of it. Because more often than not, when we 152 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: would travel with Sunday Night, we hit the ground running. 153 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: We'd land in another country and you get all the 154 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: gear and literally just go straight into it. So I 155 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: learned that I would have to make the most of 156 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: that time if I could on a plane. But yeah, 157 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: there's many times where you know, you don't always get 158 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: to do that because there's a lot of work to 159 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: be done. There's loads of research. I might be heading 160 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: off to do an interview somewhere, and I'm a little 161 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: bit of a last minute kind of person. So sometimes 162 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: I'll say to myself, Oh, I've got to research a 163 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 2: particular person for an interview, and I know that I've 164 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: got a seventeen hour flight to get there, so I 165 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: get all my notes ready and then go great the flight. 166 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: That's it, seventeen hours of full on research and get 167 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: it done there. So it just depends what I'm doing 168 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: and where I'm going and what I need to do 169 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 2: in that time. But it's a really good chunk of 170 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: time where no one disturbs you. So I don't know 171 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes an hour on a plane is 172 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: kind of equivalent to two hours anywhere else as far 173 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: as achieving things. 174 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: Now, a large part of your job has involved interviewing people, 175 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: and you've interviewed major stars from like Tom Cruise and 176 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Katie Perry to people that have just gone through, you know, 177 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,479 Speaker 1: the most amazing and also harrowing situations. What's your approach 178 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: in those first few minutes to building report and trust 179 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: with someone. 180 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, the first few minutes can make or break 181 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: an interview. It's certainly a case of ensuring that you 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: start off with something gentle and make sure that they're relaxed. 183 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: And it very much is dependent on the topic. Obviously, 184 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: if it's a celebrity chat, it's quite a different feel 185 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: to if it's an interview like I did for my 186 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: book where someone's recounting their trauma. But I think if 187 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: I've had if I've had the chance to meet them 188 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: beforehand and I've had conversation with them before the interview, 189 00:09:55,320 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: it's definitely ensuring that I have their trust. That's the 190 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: most important thing, which is very different from a celebrity 191 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: interview that you know, like the scene out of you know, 192 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: was it notting Hill where they rock up and do 193 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: the horse and hound, and it's kind of, you know, 194 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: one of those interviews where everyone's turning through when you've 195 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: got ten minutes. They're very different, you know, you kind 196 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: of rock up, do your questions get out. But I 197 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: think to do an interview where it's a Sunday night 198 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: situation or it's a book situation. You know, I've usually 199 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: had some communication in advance and then just ensuring that 200 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 2: they there at ease, you know. But yeah, so for me, 201 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: it's my research is my biggest thing. I just will research, research, research, 202 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: to the point where I feel like I know everything 203 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: about the person or the event and what's going to happen. 204 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: And I can almost tell you their answers that I 205 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: know where they're going. And then it's sort of my 206 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 2: I almost like I put that into one side of 207 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: my brain and then I just go with the flow 208 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: of where we're going. And if the interview goes down 209 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 2: an entirely different path, that's even better. 210 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: I want to dig into a few of those things. 211 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: So let's first dive into those first few minutes. So 212 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: you said, you know, maybe you'll start off with a 213 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: kind of easier question or something to ease them into it, 214 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: or even just. 215 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: A totally different I interviewed Serena Williams the other day 216 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: so quickly doing all my research, and I noticed that 217 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 2: on her Instagram hand or she describes herself as mother 218 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 2: of Olympia, and so I thought perfect. So the first 219 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: question was asking about her daughter, and she just beamed, 220 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: and she was just relaxed, and she was happy, and 221 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: she was clearly talking about something that she was entirely 222 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: in love with and passionate about, and that just I 223 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: think breaks the ice and settles her in and then 224 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 2: we can go into other areas and naturally follow the path. 225 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just that having that nice. It's like 226 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 2: when you meet someone, isn't It's the same as a conversation. 227 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: You're hardly going to walk up to someone and just 228 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: drill down to the heart of it instantly. It's always Hi, 229 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 2: how are you? What a beautiful day? Love what you're wearing? 230 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: You know, are you here walking your dog? Whatever it 231 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 2: might be. But I just think it's that it's polite 232 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: to do it that way. 233 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: It does make sense. Now you mentioned the importance of 234 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: listening to do a good interview, and you know, I 235 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: think everyone that's listening to this interview, I'm sure like 236 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: there's really no jobs that I can think of where 237 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: being a better listener is not going to help you immensely. 238 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: I would imagine for you, a lot of it is 239 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: just completely unconscious and ingrained in terms of how you listen. 240 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: But if you were to unpack it, if you were 241 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: to teach someone what you're doing to really really listen 242 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: to what the person that you're interviewing or that you're 243 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: talking to is saying, how would you describe that? What 244 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: are the things that you're doing. 245 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 2: That's probably one of the hardest questions I think I've 246 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: ever been asked. Yeah, I think it is intently listening 247 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: to what they're saying and how they're saying it, and 248 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: also reading between the lines everything from a person's body 249 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: language to how they react to a particular question. So 250 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of some examples. I remember many 251 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,359 Speaker 2: years ago interviewing Bernard Tomic after he had that Wimbledon 252 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: you know, tantrum, and he was one of the most 253 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: hated men in the country, and we jumped on a 254 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: plane flew to Miami to interview him, and it was 255 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: straight after all of this had just happened, and he 256 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 2: was just so defensive, you know, he was just instantly 257 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: in that I'm atomic and I'm defensive and this is 258 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 2: who I am, and I don't care what you all think, 259 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. And I conducted the interview and 260 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 2: went along and almost you just have to let somebody 261 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 2: say what they want to say. You know, if someone's 262 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: going to sit down in front of a journalist, they've 263 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: usually got a reason that they want to do it. 264 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: So I think very much in the beginning, it's like, 265 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 2: all right, well, here are the questions that I know 266 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 2: that you want to hear us, so that you can 267 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: say what it is that you want to say. And 268 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 2: then when all of that's out of the way, is 269 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 2: my chance to then actually take a deeper dive and 270 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: peel back those layers and ask him a little bit 271 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: more about why and how and watching his reaction. And 272 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: I think I use that interview as an example because 273 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: halfway through I had my laptop ready to go and 274 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: I had a clip on there of an interview that 275 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: he had done when he was about ten, talking about 276 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: the famous tennis player that he wanted to beat. He 277 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: wanted to be the best in the world and his 278 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: dreams and hopes of tennis. So I played that to him. 279 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: Everything about him changed his body language, his emotions, his demeanor, 280 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: the whole lot. It absolutely stopped him in his tracks. 281 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: And first of all, I didn't even have to ask 282 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: him anything. It was just you know, obviously with a 283 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: television camera, it's quite different to an interview that you're 284 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 2: doing where people can't see us, but having the camera 285 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: on him to watch his face and how he reacted 286 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: to seeing himself talking about his hopes and dreams as 287 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: a tennis player, and then just really gently letting him 288 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: talk about it, and it was a fascinating I felt 289 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: like we could just got two totally different people, you know, 290 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: the sort of the blustery ego at the beginning, and 291 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: then there was a glimpse of the real him deep down, 292 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: who was still a little boy in so many ways. 293 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 2: So I think it's just very gently following along and 294 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: seeing where they go and hopefully having a moment where 295 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: you do see a little bit of vulnerability, or you know, 296 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: asking a question where someone actually rolls their head, you know, 297 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: roles laughing, and you see their real self. I guess, 298 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: rather than necessarily the public persona that's been so carefully crafted. 299 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: It's always really hard when you interview somebody who's had 300 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: a lot of media training. And it's funny. I always say, 301 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: when anyone else asks me about it, yes, by all means, 302 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: get media training. It's fantastic, but not too much, you know, 303 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: not to the point where you're not necessarily authentic anymore, 304 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: or you're saying the lines that you think people want 305 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: to hear, Because I think that's really quite apparent when 306 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: somebody is this perfectly crafted persona and I see politicians 307 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: you often see and I think, oh my gosh, I 308 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: just want you to kill yourself laughing or say something, 309 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, just go off the cuff. So yeah, just 310 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: following along and seeing where it goes. 311 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: We will be back with Melson talking about what the 312 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: shift was like from being in one of the highest 313 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: profile jobs in media as the co host of breakfast 314 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: show Sunrise to taking a step back from that intense spotlight. 315 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 316 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 317 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 318 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 319 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for 320 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot cod That's how I work dot co. 321 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: I would love to know how your life, in particularly 322 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: your work life, has changed from going from having such 323 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: a high profile job in the like this massive spotlight 324 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: when you were doing Sunrise for I think like about 325 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: fifteen years. I think all that for you you did 326 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: it for to still being a presence on our screens 327 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: and our radio but not under that intense spotlight. How 328 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: has that shift been for you? 329 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: Do you know when I was doing Sunrise and when 330 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 2: I've done any more high profile roles. I wouldn't say 331 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 2: that I'm not aware of it, because of course I am, 332 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: but I don't. It doesn't dominate the way I go 333 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: about what I do. I just I've always felt you 334 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: cannot live your life and you cannot live your job, 335 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: your career. I couldn't with thinking every second of the 336 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 2: day that people were scrutinizing, analyzing, watching they were but 337 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 2: that didn't fill my thoughts, makes sense, So you know, 338 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: I would go about life normally. I would do things 339 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 2: the way that I normally would. I would conduct myself 340 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: in the way that I normally would. I've always looked 341 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: at it that, you know, I've had an extraordinary job, 342 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 2: but it's a job, but a job that came with 343 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: a profile. So yes, there was a few extra elements 344 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 2: that that brought, But at the end of the day, 345 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: it was still a job that I wanted to do 346 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 2: to the best of my ability, and whether it was 347 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: with people watching or not was sometimes even it was irrelevant. 348 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: You know, I'm that person that no one's ever put 349 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 2: more pressure on me than I put on myself every day. 350 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: I turn up on time every day, I want to 351 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: do my absolute best. I would judge my stories, sometimes 352 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 2: quite harshly, you know. I feel like I was the 353 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 2: first one to analyze how I did an interview or 354 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: how I told a story, or when I did that day, 355 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: whether I think I did it to the best of 356 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: my ability. I did it with decency and respect and 357 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: kindness and honesty in all of those factors. So yeah, 358 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: they motivated me irrespective of having this light on me. 359 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't think that's changed now that I'm 360 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: It's a little less intense, but I still think I'm 361 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 2: motivated by the same things. I still conduct myself the 362 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: same way, I still have the same standards that I 363 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: hold myself to, So yeah, I hope that that's never 364 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 2: actually clouded my thinking. Look, I won't take the bins 365 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: out in my pajamas, I'll be honest. But but you know, otherwise, 366 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 2: it really hasn't. It hasn't dominated who I am and 367 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: what I do and yeah, where I go. 368 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: How do you decide how much to share of yourself 369 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: as a public figure and what to keep private? 370 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: Sharing myself was always okay. I was very mindful when 371 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: my children were younger, particularly teenagers and my husband. I 372 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 2: feel like keeping my family. Look, everyone knows my kids, 373 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 2: they've grown up, they've seen me pregnant on television. You know. 374 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 2: I definitely shared huge parts of my life. But then 375 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 2: every now and then I'd sort of just pull back, 376 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not one to do family social 377 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 2: posts all the time, or if it's my wedding anniversary, 378 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I might pop a photo up, but 379 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to always do it. I 380 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: don't have to share everything with people. But I think 381 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: there's been certain parts that I haven't been able to hide. 382 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: You know, I can remember the very first time I 383 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: cried on television, and I was mortified because it just 384 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: felt so unprofessional. But then I realized it, it's just 385 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 2: who I am. I'm a crier, I'm an emotional person. 386 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: And I also am really grateful that I can still 387 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: feel enough that I have that empathy and that I 388 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: cry the day that I don't. I feel like if 389 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 2: I've become that hardened by my job, it's probably time 390 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: to do something else. So I feel a little bit, 391 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 2: like you know, viewers have been. I've been so lucky that, 392 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: you know, people say hello in the street all the 393 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: time as though they know me, and they do, and 394 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 2: I feel that's been such a privilege and that's afforded 395 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: me the jobs that I've had. And it kind of 396 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 2: goes both ways. So for me personally, there's probably not 397 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 2: much that people don't know, and I'm okay with that. 398 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: Don't I don't try to hide it. I think we're all, 399 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 2: you know, we're all pretty similar and normal, flawed human beings, 400 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: and yeah, I'm okay with it. 401 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: I remember I interviewed Sandra Sully on How I Work 402 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: quite a few years ago, and I was talking with 403 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: her about feedback and how she sort of thinks about 404 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: her own performance, you know, as a news reader. And 405 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: I was struck by the fact that she said she 406 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: will still watch herself back and critique herself even now, 407 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: like you know, thirty years into the role. I'm wondering 408 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: for you. There's obviously so much external feedback that you receive, 409 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: but internally, how how do you continue to grow? And 410 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: I guess how do you you critique yourself? You know, 411 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: in a way that works for you and does grow you. 412 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: Did I do a good job? Did I care for 413 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 2: the person that I interviewed? Did I tell the story 414 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: to the best of my ability? Was I true to them? 415 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: Was I true to the circumstances I'm you know, if 416 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: I'm covering an event that's happening, if I'm doing something 417 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 2: like my gosh, I remember when I was covering the 418 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 2: Linked Cafe siege and the sense of responsibility I felt 419 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: when I was doing that to people watching at home, 420 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: to the families of the hostages. It was so mindful 421 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 2: that the television might have been on in the cafe 422 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 2: for all I knew, and man Monus could have been watching, 423 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: and I wasn't going to give anything away that would 424 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: indicate any of the police presents around you know, I 425 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 2: was just so mindful of every single word that came 426 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: out of my mouth. And so sometimes when I've done 427 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: a story or I've covered breaking news, it's me analyzing 428 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: did I do it? Did I take my responsibility carefully? 429 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 2: Did I do it properly? Did I treat it with 430 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: respect and dignity? Was I fair? Was I balanced? You know, 431 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: I've as a journalist where essentially, you know, sitting on 432 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: the fence is what we do. I'm not a commentator, 433 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: so I need to be unbiased. I need to properly 434 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 2: tell a story. So yeah, I'm always the first to 435 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 2: scrutinize my work. My book I've just written. I ran 436 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: every single word and every story past each of my 437 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: subjects because I'm sharing their stories and I wanted to 438 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 2: know that they were okay with it, and that was 439 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: probably my biggest driver in that that they were comfortable. 440 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 2: And look, I could probably read over it a hundred 441 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 2: more times and find things that I'd want to change 442 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: or words that I'd want to tinker around with, But 443 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 2: essentially it's asking myself, did I do it well? Did 444 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: I do it properly? And am I comfortable in what 445 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 2: I did today? 446 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 1: With something like covering the Link Cafe siege, and I 447 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: mean I was a viewer, but I feel like, gosh, 448 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: my memories of that are so clear. I would love 449 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: to know for you, how do you manage your emotional 450 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: state when you've got such an important job to do 451 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: and you're thinking about every word that's coming out of 452 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: your mouth. I can't even imagine what the emotions were 453 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: like for you. 454 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 2: I think the primary driver is remembering I have a 455 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: job to do at that moment in time. I have 456 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 2: news to deliver. I've got to pass on information. There 457 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 2: are people around both the city, the state, and the 458 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 2: country who are terrified, like we all are. My job 459 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 2: is to disseminate information. It's to tell the viewer what's happening, 460 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: what's going on, say in a bushmire or flood, where 461 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 2: is it at, what's the situation? Where can you seek help? 462 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 2: What do you need to know about this moment in time? 463 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: And that I think keeps me very focused. Knowing I 464 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: have a purpose is a big help. I can all 465 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 2: almost It's almost like I can hold it together while 466 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: I'm while I'm in that zone, and then when I'm 467 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 2: off air and I come home all full apart and 468 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: that's okay, I'm allowed. I'm allowed to then. But at 469 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: that moment in time, you know, I have a job 470 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 2: to do, and I think the word purpose that's what 471 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: keeps me going Because people are relying on the information 472 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: that we're passing on. It's really important. So yeah, you 473 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: sort of go into this, I guess this professional zone, 474 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: and yeah, park the tears for when I get home. 475 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: I imagine, in terms of where you're at in your 476 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: career now, you would get asked to be a mentor 477 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: to many people. And I'm sure that you have given 478 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: a lot of advice. What advice do you find yourself 479 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: giving again and again and again. 480 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: I think for me, the most important thing is recognizing 481 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: who you are, because and I say this to my kids, 482 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: we're all cogs in a wheel, but we're all we're 483 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: all vital, but we're all a little bit different. We 484 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: all have something else, something different to bring. And I remember, 485 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: you know, in my early days as a journalist and 486 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 2: watching so many extraordinary women who I admired and thought, 487 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: I just want to grow up and be like you, 488 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 2: and one day recognizing I never would be like them. 489 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 2: I can only ever be who I am. So it's 490 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,239 Speaker 2: a case of I think actually looking at yourself and 491 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: working out what are my values, what is important to me? 492 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: Who am I that's different to everybody else in my industry? 493 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 2: What do I bring that makes me me, that makes 494 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: me you know, different, special, whatever? And any industry. I 495 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 2: think this applies to you. Know, what is your role 496 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: and what makes you that a little bit different to 497 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: somebody else and owning it? You know, I when I 498 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 2: mentioned that the first time I cried on air, and 499 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: I was mortified, and then I thought, but that's who 500 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: I am, So that's okay. I'm not going to pretend 501 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 2: to be one of those really cool, calm kids that 502 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 2: doesn't shed a tear and that can hold it all together. 503 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: You know, that's just not who I am. So that's 504 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: all right. 505 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: On the flip side, what are some of the best 506 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: pieces of advice that have been given to you that 507 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: have really stuck. 508 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 2: My husband taught me control the controllable best motto ever 509 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: and I really and look, you can apply it in 510 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 2: everything from sitting in peak hour traffic to stuff happening 511 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: in life. But I do, I try really hard to 512 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 2: just if I can't change it, if there's nothing I 513 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: can do about it, I might just have to let 514 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 2: that go or park that, and I hope you don't 515 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: mind me swearing here, But okay, my other one is 516 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 2: just shit happens. You know. Sometimes shit happens and you've 517 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 2: got to deal with it, and it might be awful 518 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: and it might not be what you want. I'm sorry 519 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 2: to keep bringing it, but do I actually mean to 520 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: bring it back to the book. But this is kind 521 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: of where my headspace is at the moment. One of 522 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 2: the women I interview in a Cat is the mom 523 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: of a little boy who was born with a terminal 524 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 2: illness and he's still alive to this day and he's extraordinary. 525 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: But she talks about first of all, acceptance. It is 526 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: what it is. You know. You can't waste energy and 527 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 2: time sitting in a situation wishing it was something different, 528 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 2: because that's just a waste. So except that it is 529 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: what it is, and then what are you going to 530 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: do about it? How do you move forward? And I 531 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 2: think having the power to control how you feel about 532 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: something moving forward and what you can actually do about 533 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 2: it is really really strong. So yeah, I try very 534 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: hard to put my energy into what I can change 535 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 2: and alter and like go all the things that I 536 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: can't easier said than done. 537 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, I always feel like quite nervous when 538 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm interviewing someone who is who does this for their career. 539 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 2: You're fantastic. It's a conversation. 540 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: I was going to ask it also, given that you're 541 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: probably doing a billion interviews a week on publicity for 542 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: your new book, I would love to get feedback from you. 543 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: What can I improves and what sort of keep doing nothing. 544 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: I know you're fantastic. 545 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: I mean you've done your research, and I've always found 546 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 2: for me, if I've done my research, that's my confidence. 547 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 2: You know. The times the only times I would get 548 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 2: really nervous was if I was unprepared, if I hadn't 549 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: made my notes, read everything I possibly could, if I 550 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: didn't know just about everything I could about the person 551 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: or the subject that I was covering. So clearly you've 552 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: done that, and also big credit to your producer Liam. 553 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: But it's a conversation. I always think the best interviews 554 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 2: are simply a conversation, and the person that's on the 555 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: other side doesn't feel like someone's throwing questions their way, 556 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: you know, it's like we may as well be sitting 557 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: together on account with a cup of tea and just 558 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 2: having a chat. I mean, that's essentially what it is. 559 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: So I think they're the nicest and the best interviews 560 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: because you get a rapport with somebody and you just 561 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 2: they feel comfortable. So hey, on this side of it, 562 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd much rather be doing what you're doing. 563 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: It's so much easier. Trust me, I hate having to 564 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 2: answer the questions. I'd rather ask them. But you've made 565 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: me feel very comfortable and definitely being able to see 566 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: your gorgeous smiling face help So yeah, it's just a 567 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: lovely conversation. And I think too, You've got me thinking 568 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 2: about a few things, which is really good. I kind 569 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: of had a moment where I'm like, oh, oh, I 570 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: got to put some thought into this one. 571 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: Make you much. Thanks a well. Finally, for people that 572 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: want to get their hands on a copy of fifteen 573 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: Seconds of Brave, your new book, and connect with you 574 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: in other ways, what is the best way for people 575 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: to do that? 576 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: Oh, I guess socials. Fifteen Seconds of Brave as a 577 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: via is out from Penguin. It's available in all good 578 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: and bad bookshops. I even did the audio version, which 579 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 2: was very fun. I've never done that before, but like 580 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 2: I was reading my kids a story again. So yeah, 581 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 2: there's lots of ways. I just think it's all about connecting. 582 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 2: It's exactly what you're doing, which is connecting with people 583 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 2: telling stories. We do that as humans. We have from 584 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 2: the beginning of time, sitting around campfires. You know. I 585 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: think it's what separates us from other beings on this earth, 586 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 2: and I'm sure they probably connect to in different ways. 587 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: But we share stories with one another, I think, inspiring 588 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: one another. And you know, the first thing you do 589 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: when you've had a bad day, what do you do? 590 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: You run your best girlfriend and have a good vent. 591 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: It's just who we are. So I think, Yeah, more 592 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: power to you for doing conversations like this and gathering 593 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 2: little bits of wisdom and wise words from people, and yeah, 594 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: sharing different stories. So it's been a pleasure. Thanks for 595 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: having me. 596 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show. Mel. 597 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: I loved the motto that Mel's husband gave her of 598 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: control the controllable. I'd heard it before, but you know 599 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: when you rehear a phrase at a time when you 600 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: really need it, Well, that's what I felt like when 601 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: I did this interview with Mal a few weeks ago. 602 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: I was in the middle of a really stressful week 603 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: at work, and hearing that advice made me double down 604 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: on what I could control and try not to focus 605 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: so much on the things that I couldn't. Thank you 606 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: for sharing part of your day with me by listening 607 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: to How I Work. If you're keen for more tips 608 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: on how to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn 609 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just search for 610 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on the traditional 611 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: land of the Warrenery people, part of the cool And Nation. 612 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: I am so grateful for being able to work and 613 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: live on this beautiful land, and I want to pay 614 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. How I 615 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: Work is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead 616 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: Set Studios. The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan, 617 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Nimba who did the audio 618 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: mix and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.