WEBVTT - Managing Spending Guilt 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.040 Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.880 pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples. 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.440 They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.840 the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:15.960 and for caring for the land on which we are 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.520 able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:21.799 and we share our friendship and our kindness. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:46.000 She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.400 Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.320 for millennials who want financial freedom. Over the last few years, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.240 we have seen so many of you transform your relationships 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.560 with money. We've seen prolific spenders become savvy savers. We've 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.760 seen micro investors opening on share folios, and we've seen 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.280 after pay addicts closing their accounts for good legends. What 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.880 we've also noticed, though, is that many of us who 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.920 have worked so hard to overhaul our finances and now 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.960 starting to feel a sense of guilt around our spending. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.440 Not only is this feeling a drainer, but surprisingly it 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.000 can also serve to jeopardize our finances. My name is 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.560 Georgia King, and joining me to unpack how we can 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.800 manage spending guilt is financial advisor Victoria Devine. Hello, what 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.759 was the last thing you felt guilty about purchasing? My girl? 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:31.000 Oh? 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:32.000 Are we really doing? This? 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.920 Was your engagement party quite recently? Ask about I know 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.440 you can ask about the shoes, isn't it could be 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:40.960 the shoes. Yeah, I spend a lot of money on 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.280 a pair of shoes. I regret nothing good. I don't 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:43.880 feel guilty. 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.480 Interesting because it was email budget. It's one of those 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.400 things who for those of you playing along at home, 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.800 I bought a very very nice pair of Jimmy Choo shoes. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.400 They have pink bows, ones on the front, ones on 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.280 the back, very sassy, very I felt very mean, like 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.840 very basically you were basically the blush of shees on 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.000 the money, same color, like I just felt like I 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.760 needed them, but they were a part of the budget. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.920 And what was not a part of the budget was 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.640 a headband. And I really wanted a headband, but I 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.959 wasn't going to spend thousands of dollars on the one 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.720 that I actually wanted, so I just crafted it myself, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.160 jeeking with a sassy little three dollar clearance Kmart headband 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.840 and I hands stitched some pearls onto it from a 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.760 necklace I bought from Diva in circa twenty ten. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.800 Stop it. It worked well and well it looked impressive. 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.680 We were talking before the show and apparently you got 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.280 lots of dms about where you I have found this. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.360 But I made it, guys. But it's all about balance, 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.120 and it's all about purchasing in line with your values. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:41.919 And it's not something that I do all the time, 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:43.919 going and buying a pair of designer shoes. And you 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.360 know what, I don't even know if that's the most 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.840 relatable example, but I wanted to give it because it's 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.240 a real one from my life and it's just one 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.480 of those things that it made me feel special. I 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.440 have worked my hardest over the last couple of years, 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.760 and do you know what I feel like? I deserve 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.160 to feel really nice, and so do you, guys. It's 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:03.119 not necessary achievement. It's not about having to mark very 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.400 important things with big purchases. It's more about looking after 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.320 yourself and knowing that self care is really important and 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.160 it does actually stretch into our finances. But we're going 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.760 to break down exactly why you might be feeling guilty 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:16.960 and how that works and how to overcome it throughout 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:17.280 the show. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.920 Ji, Yeah, it's definitely something that I've struggled with in 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.400 the past, so I am very excited about I feel. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.200 Like you're a frugal little spender. I was give us 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.120 the goss. How'd you get through that? Why did you 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:27.680 get through that? 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:29.760 In terms of overcoming that feeling of it? 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.760 Used to be so frugal in a good way, Like 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.480 that's why you have a very healthy savings account. It's 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.440 not a bad habit to have, but feeling guilty about purchases, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:41.360 that is a bad habit. You know what. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.240 I think it is really tied to my personality. I'm 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.600 someone who like prides myself on myself discipline, which might 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.520 be surprising because I feel like on the podcast I 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.160 come across as a bit of a goose. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.880 You're not a ghost. Nobody thinks you're a goost. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.160 Well maybe that was a very goose like voice, but 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.000 I think it got pretty unhealthy. Not nothing too serious, 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:04.160 but yeah, it just I was not really reaping any 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.600 reward from how hard I was working, and I just 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:08.600 kind of it kind of clicked for me that you 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.200 can enjoy the fruits of your labor. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:12.240 Bo can our last dome? 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.560 Yes? And you know, also I probably started earning a 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.679 little bit more money as well as I graduate a little. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.000 Bit urther and came a work She's on the money correct. 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.840 Yeah, So I don't know. I guess that's my little story. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:24.960 But I like that and I think it's really relatable. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:26.640 And I think a lot of us, especially on our 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:28.760 money journeys, we've got our heads in the sand about 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:30.240 our spending and then we pull them out and we 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.640 get our budget together, and we get our finances together, 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.440 and we're talking about cash flow and we've done what 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.600 we think is the best thing for us. But then 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.320 we start to feel really guilty about looking after ourselves. 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:41.000 Or you know, a couple of weeks ago, we had 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:42.919 somebody write in and their money when it was buying 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:44.960 jeans and not feeling guilty about it. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:45.800 Really I like that. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.719 I really loved that, because you deserve to be looked 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.440 after as well, Like you're not working this hard for 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.400 just future you. I think life is about the journey 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.800 as much as it is about the destination, which if 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.120 you've ever met my dad, Eric design, he says all 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:01.760 all the time. And I think it's about, you know, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.240 making sure that you're looked after, but also looking after 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.760 yourself in the interim exactly. And that needs to be 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.240 built into our budgets and our cash flow because otherwise 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.080 we end up burnt out, or we might end up 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.560 absolutely blowing at all, or not liking the budgeting process 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.920 or not liking managing money at all because it just 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:18.599 consistently stresses you out. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.440 Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's talk about guilty pleasures. 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:26.359 Fee, Pana chocolate, Pana chocolate and Pana ice cream or 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:27.960 now you can get it on sale for like seven 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.440 dollars a tab at Cols. Sometimes Pana ice cream and 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:30.839 ice cream. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:31.720 Have you tried the banana one? 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.000 Yeah, the banana the Banoffi one is the best. But 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.960 you're talking about money guilty questions, So back on track, Fee, 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.560 We love our pana, But do you believe in guilty 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.719 pleasures as like an idea as a concept? Absolutely? I 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.800 Do we all deserve a little pick me up sometimes, 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.720 whether that is ice cream or financial or it is 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.640 you know, looking after ourselves and giving ourselves a little 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.599 pedicure after a long week at work. Like, it doesn't 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.920 matter what it is, it doesn't have to be expensive, 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.240 or it could be really expensive, like the time I 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.160 bought those shoes for my engagement and I regret absolutely 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.080 nothing about it. Someone asked me if I was trying 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.240 to sell them. I was like, oh, no, very achievement 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.359 to me. I'm probably going to box them, like in 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.440 a clear box and put them in my wardrobe. So 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.800 I look at them every day because I'm obsessed. But 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.360 having guilty pleasures is so important because it's again really 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.520 tired to self care. So before we keep talking about 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.680 our guilty pleasures of making them, okay, let's actually unpack 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.479 for a minute what is guilty. Let's talk about how 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.359 that works. So when you hurt somebody else, guilt is 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:34.240 an absolutely natural and very important emotional response that encourages 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.240 the repair of valuable relationships and discourages acts that could 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.719 damage them. So that's kind of nice to know that 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.520 as humans, that's ingrained in us. I think there are 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.760 some people who don't have that, and that's kind of scary, 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.599 but that's all right. But what about when you hurt 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.600 yourself by going against your own standards or your own plans. 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.599 Guilty is a very important indicator of this, and it 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.359 actually can be super productive if you're paying attention to 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.880 it and you're looking at what that's trying to tell you. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.880 So we're not saying have no guilt, ever, like don't 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.599 feel guilty over your spending, Like you probably should be 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.960 experiencing a bit of guilt if you've been budgeting and 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.840 saving for ages and then you go and blow it 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.200 on something that wasn't aligned to your values or your goals. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.120 But there's probably a reason you've done that. We need 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.920 to deeply understand that as opposed to crucifying ourselves. And 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.280 I think we also hold a lot of guilt about 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.520 our historics. Right, So, like people often say to me like, 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.200 oh my gosh, I wish that I had done better, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.960 I wish I knew better, or I'm so stupid I 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.840 never did X, Y and Z. But I do genuinely 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.840 believe that that doesn't help anybody, like harboring guilt for 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.520 past decisions that arguably never hurt anybody except for your 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.600 financial position. Like that's past you, and they did the 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.480 best that they could with the tools and the resources 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.000 they had at the time. It's not necessarily about going 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.040 wish I knew better. G I can't believe it I 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:50.920 was so dumb. You weren't so dumb. You just didn't 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.000 have the tools and resources that you have today. And 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.720 that's fine, and we're learning and growing. But when you're spending, 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.280 it is a cognitive battle for hills between your emotions 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.200 and then the rational parts of your brain. As the 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.640 part of the brain that's involved in spending is actually 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.000 the same part that loves the good dopamine hit g 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.920 and like spending that gives you that dopamine hit. That's 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.080 why some people have spending addictions and shopping addictions, because 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.160 it's not actually about the item they're purchasing. It's about 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.080 the thrill that they experience when they part with some money, 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.560 which is really traumatic and can be really hard for 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.960 a lot of people. And I think too often it's 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.119 trivialized in a way that makes people feel like crap 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.040 about themselves. G Like the Diaries of a shopoholic? Like cool? 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.720 Would you have a TV show called the Diaries of 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:36.959 an alcoholic? Yeah? 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:37.320 No? No? 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.760 Like it just makes me feel a bit ick, But 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.080 that's me because I am so wildly passionate about and 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.840 cover myself. That sounds weird. I don't cover myself in money, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.920 but I definitely surround myself with money conversations, so I 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.000 feel like I understand it a bit deeper than the 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:52.600 average bear. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.760 So do you not go home and have baths in cash? 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:56.360 I don't know. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:57.480 I thought that's what you did. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.360 It's actually yeah, no, no, no, I just like use 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.640 it as the like the wash cloth in the shower. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.840 Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous. I want to give you some stats. 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.080 I love stat stats, skills, marriaging. It's been a while 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.040 I wanted to take a look at the money that 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:15.199 Australians have and are allocating. So, according to the ABS 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.000 in twenty twenty one, the average household spends one four 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.080 hundred and twenty five dollars per week on essential and 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.760 non essential living expenses, with the top expenses being housing 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.080 costs at two hundred and seventy nine dollars. Makes sense, 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.720 Food and non alcoholic beverages two hundred and thirty seven dollars. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.120 That comes in at transport is then two hundred and 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.199 seven dollars, and recreation is one hundred and seventy two. 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.400 I wish I knew what they were doing for recreation. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.520 Yeah, well, I guess that's you know, catching up at 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:43.800 the bar for a little bevy. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.679 Yeah, all right. I feel like I don't have enough hobbies. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.120 I feel like I need more recreation in my life. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:50.920 I just work. You know, you meet them at parties, 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:52.440 They're like, what do you do? And you kind of go. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:53.880 I don't really want to tell them what I do 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.320 for work, but they're like, what do you do for fun? 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.960 And I don't really know. Work is fun, work is 0:09:58.040 --> 0:09:58.600 really fun. 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.240 Let's look at low income households now, so they dedicate 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.520 a relatively higher portion of their spending to housings. That's 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.720 trying to makes sense because housing's expense exactly. Food and 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.559 non alcoholic beverages come in at nineteen percent, Domestic fuel 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.440 and power is then five percent, and that's compared to 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.320 high income households, which are so eighteen percent, fourteen percent, 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.280 and two percent respectively. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.400 Wow, that's quite interesting. I feel like it's super interesting. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.880 But I also think that we need to realize that 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.680 spending money is necessary to live in our world. We 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:34.120 shouldn't feel guilty about spending at all. And it's not 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.200 like you're listening to this episode for me to give 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.880 you permission and go, all right, ge, don't feel guilty 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.400 anymore about spending money. It's more about going, well, why 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.600 do you feel guilty? How does this work? Can we 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.440 break this down a little bit more, because from my perspective, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.400 spending around guilt comes from a couple of places. It 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.520 could be ingrained in your money story. You could have 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.880 had a money story where you feel really guilty because 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.400 you grew up maybe in poverty, and now you're absolutely thriving, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.680 and you just feel really awful about the fact that 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:03.040 you know your parents couldn't do what you get to 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.640 do today, and that can lead to some guilt which 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.560 I genuinely think you should get some therapy for. Like, 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.160 genuinely there is nothing better than therapy, and I'm sure 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.160 that basically everybody in the Shees on the Money team 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.080 is going to tell you that. But it's one of 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.120 those things where it could be so ingrained in your 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.120 money story that you didn't even know that that's where 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.560 it was coming from. It could be the flip side 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.080 where you just feel out of control and therefore guilty 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:25.760 because you're like, oh my gosh, I just bought this 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.360 new skirt and I think I have rent or I 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.280 think I have a bill coming up. Because you're not 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.480 clear on your budget or your cash flow or what's 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.440 coming up. We're in reality, a budget should actually be 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.640 a tool that empowers us. It shouldn't be a tool 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.840 where it limits us and goes all, right, JA, so 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.840 we've done your budget, seventy bucks a week on groceries done, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.240 Wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Like that is not how 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.760 it works. It's actually about truly understanding how much money 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.720 is coming into your account and how much leaves it 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.920 and for what. It's not about judging ourselves on those splits. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.400 And that's actually why in my book and in everything 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.520 that we have spoken about historically, it's really about your money. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.559 It's not about percentages. And I know the other advisors 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.240 historically have always said, oh, spend you know, thirty percent 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.720 on this and twenty percent on this and save ten percent. Like, 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.200 I just don't think that works for anybody. And the 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.440 stats you just shared were really reflective of that, because 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.360 you look at people who are on lower incomes, and 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.359 of course they are going to spend a higher percentage 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.199 of their income on housing because housing is really expensive. 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.800 But if you are making bank and decide to live in, 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.040 you know, a cheaper house, you can spend like five 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.160 percent on rent. So I think it's really unfair to 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:37.520 set similar standards or similar percentage points for people, because 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.320 if you're on a forty thousand dollar income, that split 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.200 is going to be very significantly different to someone who's 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.840 earning four hundred thousand dollars. It's so important to contextualize that, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.520 but also give yourself permission to spend on yourself and 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.280 go all right, well regardless of whether I am a 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.600 low income or a high income, and I still deserve 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.360 something for me if it's in budget. And I mean, 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.560 this is a very privileged position to be in, Like 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.360 you might feel really guilty because you're leaving off benefits 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.080 and you have two kids to feed and you just 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.800 don't have the capacity to save. And I'm very very 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.000 aware that that is a situation that exists in our country. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.560 It's not to say that you should feel guilty about 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.040 spending like, I just want you as well to be 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.560 empowered about the decisions you're making around money. It's not 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.040 to say, oh my gosh, well you should be saving instead. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.959 That's not it at all. It's about relieving the guilt 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.760 you feel when you make a transaction. And sometimes people 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.199 feel guilty around their energy bill, like that's a hygiene factor. G. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.480 We have to pay our energy bill and others are 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.760 just feeling guilty when they spend an extra couple of 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.800 dollars on a latte once a week. I think we 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.160 really need to give ourselves permission to live the lives 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:39.959 where you want to, because you freaking deserve to. 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:42.920 But in saying that as well, don't just put it 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:44.480 all on after pay and worry about it later. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.559 Yeah, no, no, no, it's no, it's spending the money 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.200 you have. We're not talking about going into debt like 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.000 that's another story. Yes, you're really trying to make me rant. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.160 Oh triggered. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.920 Let's stay on track. How prevalent is guilt around spend? 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.360 I know we see it in the community all the time. 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.160 We do so like anecdotally, we see it really often. Yes, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.000 we've seen it so often. G. We did a whole 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:08.840 episode on it. 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.880 You're welcome. But a study done in twenty eighteen actually 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:17.160 revealed that seventy two percent of Australians g had guilt 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:21.440 when spending, and twenty two percent of those experienced that 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:22.720 feeling regularly. 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:24.600 How awful interesting? 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.200 Seventy two percent of our community feel guilt when spending 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.640 and then twenty two percent of that group they feel 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.080 that consistently. That's a really big number of people. 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.520 G massive, that's really I didn't expect it to be 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.760 that large, actually no, I thought that like maybe like 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.600 thirty percent of people felt guilty, but like seventy two 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:41.560 percent is massive. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.040 And then further to that, an American study done in 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:49.080 twenty nineteen by our leading crowdsource shopping platform commissioned a 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.040 survey of two thousand Americans, and that revealed that more 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.120 than half of Americans say they feel guilty about spending money. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.040 That kind of makes sense, but Australia we feel even 0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:58.720 more guilty. 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.640 There's also a difference in gender, right, of. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.720 Course, is there's always a different in gender. Twenty two 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.640 percent of our Australian respondents they actually refrain from buying 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.720 things that they couldn't afford, and females actually three times 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.000 more likely than a male to feel guilty around this 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.560 spending habits. Go figure, Jeeking, It's not surprising, is it. No? 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.600 What do you put that down to though? Just our 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.400 general likesting? 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.320 Yeah, yeah, I think the general pressure on us to 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.720 exist and be profitable and fruitful and all of those 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.520 other things, Like I just think that the pressure on 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.360 women is so much more significant than it is on men. 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.880 And I mean, I could rant about how the entire 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.640 world was made for men here, like from the way 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.640 our bank accounts work, to medications and testing all the 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.360 way through to the way that jobs work. Like the 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.880 world was basically made for men, and then there's women. 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.680 We came in and had to slot into the way 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.320 that they work. And I say this not just because 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.320 I'm like, oh, we have to slot into a man's world, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.480 but there is literally scientific research that says that men 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.280 actually exist on a twenty four hour circadium cycle, So 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.000 they have hormones in their body same way as we do, 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.200 but their hormones peak in the morning and then all 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.320 throughout the day they dwindle and they get tired and 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.600 they go back and they are literally most productive between 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.840 nine and five PM. Go figure. But then women, our 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.120 cycle g goes through twenty eight days, and there are 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.800 different times at which we have different hormones running through 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.920 our bodies based on how our bodies work. So literally, 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.880 the nine to five grind doesn't work for women, but 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.680 we've slotted into it anyway. So I feel like we 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.000 are already uncomfortable with the way we generate income and 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.760 do life, so I'm genuinely not surprised that women are 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.200 feeling worse about this, because we just feel worse about 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:44.360 the way everything works. 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:45.840 Really, that's interesting. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.200 It's super pervy, isn't it. 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.240 You're like, what, so you know, I feel like there's 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.200 almost a perception that the interests of women are more frivolous, 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.840 so we might spend money on makeup and pretty addresses 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.680 and stuff like that, whereas men, I don't know what 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.760 they're buying. Soccerble is that? Yeah, that's where my mind went. 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.760 I mean, that's what my partner does, soccer balls, golf balls, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.760 golf outfits. Recently kids, we love golf kits. 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.040 So do you think there is then this idea that 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.359 our interests are silly, so we should feel guilty for 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.520 spending our money on such silly little things, little girly 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.880 things like Is there any truth in that? Do you think? 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.600 Absolutely not? Because as much as that's ingrained in us, 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:24.800 and obviously we are very much of the opinion that 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.440 you should only ever do things that make you happy. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.880 It's not for other people, but like those things were 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.439 made to please men, like there were handbooks on how 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.560 we should behave and how we should apply makeup before 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.720 our husbands came home in the nineteen fifties, Like, these 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.640 things are basically to appease men, like and I don't 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.400 dress for men. I dress to impress other women. Otherwise 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.240 I wouldn't have bought expensive shoes, you know, because no 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.800 man that I am aware of that is straight is 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.480 ever going to be like, oh v god. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.480 Shoes, love the double box, love the double bo who 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:57.520 designed bows. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:17:59.600 I mean, all my gay friends, they were like, oh 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.119 my god, them Yeah, they're like literally they all knew. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:04.720 But it's one of those things where I think that 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.160 it's ingrained in us, but we really need to distill 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.520 down why it's ingrained in us and whether that actually 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:11.840