Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and
Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples.
Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and
Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing
Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are
Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness.
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Over the last few years,
Speaker 3: we have seen so many of you transform your relationships
Speaker 3: with money. We've seen prolific spenders become savvy savers. We've
Speaker 3: seen micro investors opening on share folios, and we've seen
Speaker 3: after pay addicts closing their accounts for good legends. What
Speaker 3: we've also noticed, though, is that many of us who
Speaker 3: have worked so hard to overhaul our finances and now
Speaker 3: starting to feel a sense of guilt around our spending.
Speaker 3: Not only is this feeling a drainer, but surprisingly it
Speaker 3: can also serve to jeopardize our finances. My name is
Speaker 3: Georgia King, and joining me to unpack how we can
Speaker 3: manage spending guilt is financial advisor Victoria Devine. Hello, what
Speaker 3: was the last thing you felt guilty about purchasing? My girl?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Are we really doing? This?
Speaker 3: Was your engagement party quite recently? Ask about I know
Speaker 3: you can ask about the shoes, isn't it could be
Speaker 3: the shoes. Yeah, I spend a lot of money on
Speaker 3: a pair of shoes. I regret nothing good. I don't
Speaker 3: feel guilty.
Speaker 1: Interesting because it was email budget. It's one of those
Speaker 1: things who for those of you playing along at home,
Speaker 1: I bought a very very nice pair of Jimmy Choo shoes.
Speaker 1: They have pink bows, ones on the front, ones on
Speaker 1: the back, very sassy, very I felt very mean, like
Speaker 1: very basically you were basically the blush of shees on
Speaker 1: the money, same color, like I just felt like I
Speaker 1: needed them, but they were a part of the budget.
Speaker 1: And what was not a part of the budget was
Speaker 1: a headband. And I really wanted a headband, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to spend thousands of dollars on the one
Speaker 1: that I actually wanted, so I just crafted it myself,
Speaker 1: jeeking with a sassy little three dollar clearance Kmart headband
Speaker 1: and I hands stitched some pearls onto it from a
Speaker 1: necklace I bought from Diva in circa twenty ten.
Speaker 3: Stop it. It worked well and well it looked impressive.
Speaker 3: We were talking before the show and apparently you got
Speaker 3: lots of dms about where you I have found this.
Speaker 1: But I made it, guys. But it's all about balance,
Speaker 1: and it's all about purchasing in line with your values.
Speaker 1: And it's not something that I do all the time,
Speaker 1: going and buying a pair of designer shoes. And you
Speaker 1: know what, I don't even know if that's the most
Speaker 1: relatable example, but I wanted to give it because it's
Speaker 1: a real one from my life and it's just one
Speaker 1: of those things that it made me feel special. I
Speaker 1: have worked my hardest over the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: and do you know what I feel like? I deserve
Speaker 1: to feel really nice, and so do you, guys. It's
Speaker 1: not necessary achievement. It's not about having to mark very
Speaker 1: important things with big purchases. It's more about looking after
Speaker 1: yourself and knowing that self care is really important and
Speaker 1: it does actually stretch into our finances. But we're going
Speaker 1: to break down exactly why you might be feeling guilty
Speaker 1: and how that works and how to overcome it throughout
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 3: Ji, Yeah, it's definitely something that I've struggled with in
Speaker 3: the past, so I am very excited about I feel.
Speaker 1: Like you're a frugal little spender. I was give us
Speaker 1: the goss. How'd you get through that? Why did you
Speaker 1: get through that?
Speaker 3: In terms of overcoming that feeling of it?
Speaker 1: Used to be so frugal in a good way, Like
Speaker 1: that's why you have a very healthy savings account. It's
Speaker 1: not a bad habit to have, but feeling guilty about purchases,
Speaker 1: that is a bad habit. You know what.
Speaker 3: I think it is really tied to my personality. I'm
Speaker 3: someone who like prides myself on myself discipline, which might
Speaker 3: be surprising because I feel like on the podcast I
Speaker 3: come across as a bit of a goose.
Speaker 1: You're not a ghost. Nobody thinks you're a goost.
Speaker 3: Well maybe that was a very goose like voice, but
Speaker 3: I think it got pretty unhealthy. Not nothing too serious,
Speaker 3: but yeah, it just I was not really reaping any
Speaker 3: reward from how hard I was working, and I just
Speaker 3: kind of it kind of clicked for me that you
Speaker 3: can enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Speaker 1: Bo can our last dome?
Speaker 3: Yes? And you know, also I probably started earning a
Speaker 3: little bit more money as well as I graduate a little.
Speaker 1: Bit urther and came a work She's on the money correct.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know. I guess that's my little story.
Speaker 1: But I like that and I think it's really relatable.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us, especially on our
Speaker 1: money journeys, we've got our heads in the sand about
Speaker 1: our spending and then we pull them out and we
Speaker 1: get our budget together, and we get our finances together,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about cash flow and we've done what
Speaker 1: we think is the best thing for us. But then
Speaker 1: we start to feel really guilty about looking after ourselves.
Speaker 1: Or you know, a couple of weeks ago, we had
Speaker 1: somebody write in and their money when it was buying
Speaker 1: jeans and not feeling guilty about it.
Speaker 2: Really I like that.
Speaker 1: I really loved that, because you deserve to be looked
Speaker 1: after as well, Like you're not working this hard for
Speaker 1: just future you. I think life is about the journey
Speaker 1: as much as it is about the destination, which if
Speaker 1: you've ever met my dad, Eric design, he says all
Speaker 1: all the time. And I think it's about, you know,
Speaker 1: making sure that you're looked after, but also looking after
Speaker 1: yourself in the interim exactly. And that needs to be
Speaker 1: built into our budgets and our cash flow because otherwise
Speaker 1: we end up burnt out, or we might end up
Speaker 1: absolutely blowing at all, or not liking the budgeting process
Speaker 1: or not liking managing money at all because it just
Speaker 1: consistently stresses you out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's talk about guilty pleasures.
Speaker 1: Fee, Pana chocolate, Pana chocolate and Pana ice cream or
Speaker 1: now you can get it on sale for like seven
Speaker 1: dollars a tab at Cols. Sometimes Pana ice cream and
Speaker 1: ice cream.
Speaker 3: Have you tried the banana one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the banana the Banoffi one is the best. But
Speaker 1: you're talking about money guilty questions, So back on track, Fee,
Speaker 1: We love our pana, But do you believe in guilty
Speaker 1: pleasures as like an idea as a concept? Absolutely? I
Speaker 1: Do we all deserve a little pick me up sometimes,
Speaker 1: whether that is ice cream or financial or it is
Speaker 1: you know, looking after ourselves and giving ourselves a little
Speaker 1: pedicure after a long week at work. Like, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what it is, it doesn't have to be expensive,
Speaker 1: or it could be really expensive, like the time I
Speaker 1: bought those shoes for my engagement and I regret absolutely
Speaker 1: nothing about it. Someone asked me if I was trying
Speaker 1: to sell them. I was like, oh, no, very achievement
Speaker 1: to me. I'm probably going to box them, like in
Speaker 1: a clear box and put them in my wardrobe. So
Speaker 1: I look at them every day because I'm obsessed. But
Speaker 1: having guilty pleasures is so important because it's again really
Speaker 1: tired to self care. So before we keep talking about
Speaker 1: our guilty pleasures of making them, okay, let's actually unpack
Speaker 1: for a minute what is guilty. Let's talk about how
Speaker 1: that works. So when you hurt somebody else, guilt is
Speaker 1: an absolutely natural and very important emotional response that encourages
Speaker 1: the repair of valuable relationships and discourages acts that could
Speaker 1: damage them. So that's kind of nice to know that
Speaker 1: as humans, that's ingrained in us. I think there are
Speaker 1: some people who don't have that, and that's kind of scary,
Speaker 1: but that's all right. But what about when you hurt
Speaker 1: yourself by going against your own standards or your own plans.
Speaker 1: Guilty is a very important indicator of this, and it
Speaker 1: actually can be super productive if you're paying attention to
Speaker 1: it and you're looking at what that's trying to tell you.
Speaker 1: So we're not saying have no guilt, ever, like don't
Speaker 1: feel guilty over your spending, Like you probably should be
Speaker 1: experiencing a bit of guilt if you've been budgeting and
Speaker 1: saving for ages and then you go and blow it
Speaker 1: on something that wasn't aligned to your values or your goals.
Speaker 1: But there's probably a reason you've done that. We need
Speaker 1: to deeply understand that as opposed to crucifying ourselves. And
Speaker 1: I think we also hold a lot of guilt about
Speaker 1: our historics. Right, So, like people often say to me like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wish that I had done better,
Speaker 1: I wish I knew better, or I'm so stupid I
Speaker 1: never did X, Y and Z. But I do genuinely
Speaker 1: believe that that doesn't help anybody, like harboring guilt for
Speaker 1: past decisions that arguably never hurt anybody except for your
Speaker 1: financial position. Like that's past you, and they did the
Speaker 1: best that they could with the tools and the resources
Speaker 1: they had at the time. It's not necessarily about going
Speaker 1: wish I knew better. G I can't believe it I
Speaker 1: was so dumb. You weren't so dumb. You just didn't
Speaker 1: have the tools and resources that you have today. And
Speaker 1: that's fine, and we're learning and growing. But when you're spending,
Speaker 1: it is a cognitive battle for hills between your emotions
Speaker 1: and then the rational parts of your brain. As the
Speaker 1: part of the brain that's involved in spending is actually
Speaker 1: the same part that loves the good dopamine hit g
Speaker 1: and like spending that gives you that dopamine hit. That's
Speaker 1: why some people have spending addictions and shopping addictions, because
Speaker 1: it's not actually about the item they're purchasing. It's about
Speaker 1: the thrill that they experience when they part with some money,
Speaker 1: which is really traumatic and can be really hard for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I think too often it's
Speaker 1: trivialized in a way that makes people feel like crap
Speaker 1: about themselves. G Like the Diaries of a shopoholic? Like cool?
Speaker 1: Would you have a TV show called the Diaries of
Speaker 1: an alcoholic? Yeah?
Speaker 3: No? No?
Speaker 1: Like it just makes me feel a bit ick, But
Speaker 1: that's me because I am so wildly passionate about and
Speaker 1: cover myself. That sounds weird. I don't cover myself in money,
Speaker 1: but I definitely surround myself with money conversations, so I
Speaker 1: feel like I understand it a bit deeper than the
Speaker 1: average bear.
Speaker 3: So do you not go home and have baths in cash?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I thought that's what you did.
Speaker 1: It's actually yeah, no, no, no, I just like use
Speaker 1: it as the like the wash cloth in the shower.
Speaker 3: Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous. I want to give you some stats.
Speaker 3: I love stat stats, skills, marriaging. It's been a while
Speaker 3: I wanted to take a look at the money that
Speaker 3: Australians have and are allocating. So, according to the ABS
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, the average household spends one four
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five dollars per week on essential and
Speaker 3: non essential living expenses, with the top expenses being housing
Speaker 3: costs at two hundred and seventy nine dollars. Makes sense,
Speaker 3: Food and non alcoholic beverages two hundred and thirty seven dollars.
Speaker 3: That comes in at transport is then two hundred and
Speaker 3: seven dollars, and recreation is one hundred and seventy two.
Speaker 1: I wish I knew what they were doing for recreation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess that's you know, catching up at
Speaker 3: the bar for a little bevy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. I feel like I don't have enough hobbies.
Speaker 1: I feel like I need more recreation in my life.
Speaker 1: I just work. You know, you meet them at parties,
Speaker 1: They're like, what do you do? And you kind of go.
Speaker 1: I don't really want to tell them what I do
Speaker 1: for work, but they're like, what do you do for fun?
Speaker 1: And I don't really know. Work is fun, work is
Speaker 1: really fun.
Speaker 3: Let's look at low income households now, so they dedicate
Speaker 3: a relatively higher portion of their spending to housings. That's
Speaker 3: trying to makes sense because housing's expense exactly. Food and
Speaker 3: non alcoholic beverages come in at nineteen percent, Domestic fuel
Speaker 3: and power is then five percent, and that's compared to
Speaker 3: high income households, which are so eighteen percent, fourteen percent,
Speaker 3: and two percent respectively.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's quite interesting. I feel like it's super interesting.
Speaker 1: But I also think that we need to realize that
Speaker 1: spending money is necessary to live in our world. We
Speaker 1: shouldn't feel guilty about spending at all. And it's not
Speaker 1: like you're listening to this episode for me to give
Speaker 1: you permission and go, all right, ge, don't feel guilty
Speaker 1: anymore about spending money. It's more about going, well, why
Speaker 1: do you feel guilty? How does this work? Can we
Speaker 1: break this down a little bit more, because from my perspective,
Speaker 1: spending around guilt comes from a couple of places. It
Speaker 1: could be ingrained in your money story. You could have
Speaker 1: had a money story where you feel really guilty because
Speaker 1: you grew up maybe in poverty, and now you're absolutely thriving,
Speaker 1: and you just feel really awful about the fact that
Speaker 1: you know your parents couldn't do what you get to
Speaker 1: do today, and that can lead to some guilt which
Speaker 1: I genuinely think you should get some therapy for. Like,
Speaker 1: genuinely there is nothing better than therapy, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: that basically everybody in the Shees on the Money team
Speaker 1: is going to tell you that. But it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where it could be so ingrained in your
Speaker 1: money story that you didn't even know that that's where
Speaker 1: it was coming from. It could be the flip side
Speaker 1: where you just feel out of control and therefore guilty
Speaker 1: because you're like, oh my gosh, I just bought this
Speaker 1: new skirt and I think I have rent or I
Speaker 1: think I have a bill coming up. Because you're not
Speaker 1: clear on your budget or your cash flow or what's
Speaker 1: coming up. We're in reality, a budget should actually be
Speaker 1: a tool that empowers us. It shouldn't be a tool
Speaker 1: where it limits us and goes all, right, JA, so
Speaker 1: we've done your budget, seventy bucks a week on groceries done,
Speaker 1: Wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Like that is not how
Speaker 1: it works. It's actually about truly understanding how much money
Speaker 1: is coming into your account and how much leaves it
Speaker 1: and for what. It's not about judging ourselves on those splits.
Speaker 1: And that's actually why in my book and in everything
Speaker 1: that we have spoken about historically, it's really about your money.
Speaker 1: It's not about percentages. And I know the other advisors
Speaker 1: historically have always said, oh, spend you know, thirty percent
Speaker 1: on this and twenty percent on this and save ten percent. Like,
Speaker 1: I just don't think that works for anybody. And the
Speaker 1: stats you just shared were really reflective of that, because
Speaker 1: you look at people who are on lower incomes, and
Speaker 1: of course they are going to spend a higher percentage
Speaker 1: of their income on housing because housing is really expensive.
Speaker 1: But if you are making bank and decide to live in,
Speaker 1: you know, a cheaper house, you can spend like five
Speaker 1: percent on rent. So I think it's really unfair to
Speaker 1: set similar standards or similar percentage points for people, because
Speaker 1: if you're on a forty thousand dollar income, that split
Speaker 1: is going to be very significantly different to someone who's
Speaker 1: earning four hundred thousand dollars. It's so important to contextualize that,
Speaker 1: but also give yourself permission to spend on yourself and
Speaker 1: go all right, well regardless of whether I am a
Speaker 1: low income or a high income, and I still deserve
Speaker 1: something for me if it's in budget. And I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a very privileged position to be in, Like
Speaker 1: you might feel really guilty because you're leaving off benefits
Speaker 1: and you have two kids to feed and you just
Speaker 1: don't have the capacity to save. And I'm very very
Speaker 1: aware that that is a situation that exists in our country.
Speaker 1: It's not to say that you should feel guilty about
Speaker 1: spending like, I just want you as well to be
Speaker 1: empowered about the decisions you're making around money. It's not
Speaker 1: to say, oh my gosh, well you should be saving instead.
Speaker 1: That's not it at all. It's about relieving the guilt
Speaker 1: you feel when you make a transaction. And sometimes people
Speaker 1: feel guilty around their energy bill, like that's a hygiene factor. G.
Speaker 1: We have to pay our energy bill and others are
Speaker 1: just feeling guilty when they spend an extra couple of
Speaker 1: dollars on a latte once a week. I think we
Speaker 1: really need to give ourselves permission to live the lives
Speaker 1: where you want to, because you freaking deserve to.
Speaker 3: But in saying that as well, don't just put it
Speaker 3: all on after pay and worry about it later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, it's no, it's spending the money
Speaker 1: you have. We're not talking about going into debt like
Speaker 1: that's another story. Yes, you're really trying to make me rant.
Speaker 1: Oh triggered.
Speaker 3: Let's stay on track. How prevalent is guilt around spend?
Speaker 3: I know we see it in the community all the time.
Speaker 3: We do so like anecdotally, we see it really often. Yes,
Speaker 3: we've seen it so often. G. We did a whole
Speaker 3: episode on it.
Speaker 1: You're welcome. But a study done in twenty eighteen actually
Speaker 1: revealed that seventy two percent of Australians g had guilt
Speaker 1: when spending, and twenty two percent of those experienced that
Speaker 1: feeling regularly.
Speaker 3: How awful interesting?
Speaker 1: Seventy two percent of our community feel guilt when spending
Speaker 1: and then twenty two percent of that group they feel
Speaker 1: that consistently. That's a really big number of people.
Speaker 3: G massive, that's really I didn't expect it to be
Speaker 3: that large, actually no, I thought that like maybe like
Speaker 3: thirty percent of people felt guilty, but like seventy two
Speaker 3: percent is massive.
Speaker 1: And then further to that, an American study done in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen by our leading crowdsource shopping platform commissioned a
Speaker 1: survey of two thousand Americans, and that revealed that more
Speaker 1: than half of Americans say they feel guilty about spending money.
Speaker 1: That kind of makes sense, but Australia we feel even
Speaker 1: more guilty.
Speaker 3: There's also a difference in gender, right, of.
Speaker 1: Course, is there's always a different in gender. Twenty two
Speaker 1: percent of our Australian respondents they actually refrain from buying
Speaker 1: things that they couldn't afford, and females actually three times
Speaker 1: more likely than a male to feel guilty around this
Speaker 1: spending habits. Go figure, Jeeking, It's not surprising, is it. No?
Speaker 3: What do you put that down to though? Just our
Speaker 3: general likesting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think the general pressure on us to
Speaker 1: exist and be profitable and fruitful and all of those
Speaker 1: other things, Like I just think that the pressure on
Speaker 1: women is so much more significant than it is on men.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I could rant about how the entire
Speaker 1: world was made for men here, like from the way
Speaker 1: our bank accounts work, to medications and testing all the
Speaker 1: way through to the way that jobs work. Like the
Speaker 1: world was basically made for men, and then there's women.
Speaker 1: We came in and had to slot into the way
Speaker 1: that they work. And I say this not just because
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, we have to slot into a man's world,
Speaker 1: but there is literally scientific research that says that men
Speaker 1: actually exist on a twenty four hour circadium cycle, So
Speaker 1: they have hormones in their body same way as we do,
Speaker 1: but their hormones peak in the morning and then all
Speaker 1: throughout the day they dwindle and they get tired and
Speaker 1: they go back and they are literally most productive between
Speaker 1: nine and five PM. Go figure. But then women, our
Speaker 1: cycle g goes through twenty eight days, and there are
Speaker 1: different times at which we have different hormones running through
Speaker 1: our bodies based on how our bodies work. So literally,
Speaker 1: the nine to five grind doesn't work for women, but
Speaker 1: we've slotted into it anyway. So I feel like we
Speaker 1: are already uncomfortable with the way we generate income and
Speaker 1: do life, so I'm genuinely not surprised that women are
Speaker 1: feeling worse about this, because we just feel worse about
Speaker 1: the way everything works.
Speaker 3: Really, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's super pervy, isn't it.
Speaker 3: You're like, what, so you know, I feel like there's
Speaker 3: almost a perception that the interests of women are more frivolous,
Speaker 3: so we might spend money on makeup and pretty addresses
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, whereas men, I don't know what
Speaker 3: they're buying. Soccerble is that? Yeah, that's where my mind went.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what my partner does, soccer balls, golf balls,
Speaker 1: golf outfits. Recently kids, we love golf kits.
Speaker 3: So do you think there is then this idea that
Speaker 3: our interests are silly, so we should feel guilty for
Speaker 3: spending our money on such silly little things, little girly
Speaker 3: things like Is there any truth in that? Do you think?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not? Because as much as that's ingrained in us,
Speaker 1: and obviously we are very much of the opinion that
Speaker 1: you should only ever do things that make you happy.
Speaker 1: It's not for other people, but like those things were
Speaker 1: made to please men, like there were handbooks on how
Speaker 1: we should behave and how we should apply makeup before
Speaker 1: our husbands came home in the nineteen fifties, Like, these
Speaker 1: things are basically to appease men, like and I don't
Speaker 1: dress for men. I dress to impress other women. Otherwise
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have bought expensive shoes, you know, because no
Speaker 1: man that I am aware of that is straight is
Speaker 1: ever going to be like, oh v god.
Speaker 3: Shoes, love the double box, love the double bo who
Speaker 3: designed bows.
Speaker 1: I mean, all my gay friends, they were like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, them Yeah, they're like literally they all knew.
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where I think that
Speaker 1: it's ingrained in us, but we really need to distill
Speaker 1: down why it's ingrained in us and whether that actually
Speaker 1: makes us happy And is it such a bad thing
Speaker 1: to be spending money on things that make us happy
Speaker 1: and more productive and makes us feel good to go
Speaker 1: to work, Like no, it's the cost of being alive.
Speaker 3: Interesting. I love where this episode is going. It's become
Speaker 3: quite the feminist little rant, and that's what we're about here.
Speaker 1: Money that is very unlike me.
Speaker 3: Unlike us. I think for now we'll go to a
Speaker 3: little break and then we'll jump back on the other side.
Speaker 3: Victoria Devine, what causes guilt and what do you think
Speaker 3: that tells us about ourselves? And like human psychology, you
Speaker 3: have a background in psych talks through it.
Speaker 1: Oh look, I'm not practicing psych Can you imagine if
Speaker 1: I was? It's I just go on rants, Like I
Speaker 1: just don't know how someone who has such strong opinions
Speaker 1: like I do would ever be a really really good psychologist,
Speaker 1: because like, can you imagine I'd be sitting in like
Speaker 1: a therapy session with someone and they'd be telling me
Speaker 1: about their shitty partner, and I'd be like, all right, Georgia,
Speaker 1: you just leave, you just gotta leave. Like I would
Speaker 1: not be a helpful therapist. Maybe that's helpful though. I
Speaker 1: would have been kicked out of the industry. That's why
Speaker 1: I ended up in finance, because they're all dodgy here, right.
Speaker 1: But yeah, guilt again, we covered this at the start,
Speaker 1: but it's really good to recap. It's a symptom of
Speaker 1: inaction or not being in control, and most of us,
Speaker 1: especially women, love to feel like we are in control.
Speaker 1: So it's really about understanding a money story and where
Speaker 1: that's coming from and why we might feel that way,
Speaker 1: and a money story isn't necessarily just how you grew
Speaker 1: up around money. It could be Gee, you're just feeling
Speaker 1: really guilty because you've got a pay rise and it's
Speaker 1: a really nice pay rise, but you haven't done anything
Speaker 1: with it. You've just started spending some money and then
Speaker 1: you know, looked at your bank account at the end
Speaker 1: of the month and you're like, wow, like, I already
Speaker 1: spent everything that I earned in addition to what I
Speaker 1: used to, and you're feeling a bit of guilt about that.
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's always a really really bad thing,
Speaker 1: but I think if you are feeling guilt around money,
Speaker 1: we actually need to sit down have a chat. You
Speaker 1: and I need to go through your budget and through
Speaker 1: your cash flow and go why are you feeling like this?
Speaker 1: And are the purchases you are making reasonable or not,
Speaker 1: because sometimes they are going to be more than reasonable
Speaker 1: and you should harbor absolutely no guilt about them at all.
Speaker 1: Like you need a new pair of jeans, or you
Speaker 1: need to buy a new pair of shoes for work.
Speaker 1: And this is like a reminder to all of my
Speaker 1: nurse friends who haven't bought new shoes for work. That
Speaker 1: they keep telling themselves to do go and do that.
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things that maybe if you
Speaker 1: are being a little bit naughty with your spending and
Speaker 1: you're not on top of your budget and cash flow,
Speaker 1: that guilt could be an indicator that we just need
Speaker 1: to make some changes, We need to tighten things up
Speaker 1: and do a little bit of reflecting. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, both of those outcomes are going
Speaker 1: to be managed by a good and solid cash flow plan.
Speaker 1: It's not about being on a strict budget. It's about
Speaker 1: understanding every dollar that comes in and every dollar that
Speaker 1: goes out.
Speaker 3: Gee amazing, And we will dig into those solutions a
Speaker 3: little later in the show. I want us to ask
Speaker 3: you if spending guilt is different to other kinds of
Speaker 3: money related guilt.
Speaker 1: I think it is, But I think guilt around money
Speaker 1: is a very common theme in our community. Whether that
Speaker 1: is guilt from having money or saving money, or you
Speaker 1: feel as though maybe you don't deserve the money that
Speaker 1: you have been afforded from an inheritance, which we've covered
Speaker 1: in an entire episode on its own g But then
Speaker 1: there's also guilt where you have our earned parents or
Speaker 1: our earned family members or even for just friends. And
Speaker 1: I think that we really need to break that down
Speaker 1: about why, when, where, how, how does that work? And
Speaker 1: communication is the key here. We need to be talking
Speaker 1: about what we are earning and talking about what we're spending,
Speaker 1: and surrounding ourselves with people who are so supportive of us.
Speaker 1: No one should be making you feel shitty about how
Speaker 1: much you earn, whether it's too little or too much,
Speaker 1: Like that is not a conversation anybody should be having
Speaker 1: with you. They should be so supportive of whatever you're
Speaker 1: up to.
Speaker 3: Let's have a little chat now about our friends at
Speaker 3: after pay.
Speaker 1: V Oh, and that's a very liberal term to have
Speaker 1: used in the same sentence as after Pay.
Speaker 3: Anyone who's ever listened to this show, I would say,
Speaker 3: is pretty aware of our true feelings about after Pay.
Speaker 3: Would you say that one of its biggest dangers is
Speaker 3: that we actually bypass the important regulator of guilt when
Speaker 3: using it.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. How many times and you know I haven't
Speaker 1: done this, but how many times have people been like
Speaker 1: on the iconic and they're like, oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: a gorgeous dress. So much easier to swallow if it's
Speaker 1: just fifty bucks. Every so often right, like, that's much easier,
Speaker 1: So they're kind of taking the pain out of the transaction.
Speaker 1: And that's something that I'm really passionate about talking about,
Speaker 1: and that's why I have the banking structure that I have,
Speaker 1: where I think I've spoken about it historically, and if not,
Speaker 1: go back and listen to our budget and cash flow episodes.
Speaker 1: But I'm very passionate about having a food, fuel, and
Speaker 1: fun account, and that's where all my money for my
Speaker 1: groceries and my brunches and my drinks with my friends go,
Speaker 1: any fun I'm having, and when I go to the
Speaker 1: petrol station, and that's basically a debit card that I
Speaker 1: just tap when I am spending that money, and I
Speaker 1: never feel guilty because it's pre allocated. But the reason
Speaker 1: it's pre allocated is because I know in my head
Speaker 1: how much each week gets transferred to that account and
Speaker 1: what I can spend and I still am in control
Speaker 1: of that transaction and how much it kind of hurts
Speaker 1: in a way. I don't want to use the word hurt,
Speaker 1: but you know exactly what I mean. But I want
Speaker 1: to feel that I want to go okay. I know
Speaker 1: that I've got two hundred and fifty dollars in that
Speaker 1: account and I'm going to go out for brunch and
Speaker 1: I'm going to shout George. So that's fifty, okay, I'll
Speaker 1: have two hundred at the end of it, and I
Speaker 1: keep track of it in that way, whereas you tend
Speaker 1: to lose control of what you owe and how you
Speaker 1: owe it and where it's going when you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'll just chuck it on after pay because it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like a real transaction. You feel like you're getting
Speaker 1: that outcome, like you're like you get that dopamine hit
Speaker 1: of the transaction, you get the dopamine hit of getting
Speaker 1: the gorgeous new dress, but you don't get any of
Speaker 1: the pain of separating yourself from that money. And I
Speaker 1: think it's really detrimental because it's manifesting in I guess
Speaker 1: short term gratification being the norm. And if you compare
Speaker 1: that to historically, we all know a mum that headed
Speaker 1: to the Mornington target in July for the toy to
Speaker 1: put stuff on layby for Christmas. And that was a
Speaker 1: genius idea where mums could budget and make sure that
Speaker 1: they had everything that they wanted for Christmas that year
Speaker 1: by putting it on layby and paying it off over time.
Speaker 1: But it also fostered long term gratification because how often
Speaker 1: did they pick up a toy or you know, I
Speaker 1: know that sometimes I got to pick one out and
Speaker 1: it would go on to the layby, and I was
Speaker 1: like psyched about it. From July to December. I knew
Speaker 1: it was coming, was this long term gratification, And when
Speaker 1: I finally got it that toy was epic. When was
Speaker 1: the last time you had that feeling?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've nailed it.
Speaker 1: I just feel like we don't have that anymore familiar instant.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think we should have such an instant gratification
Speaker 1: because it leads to us not caring about things. It
Speaker 1: leads to us not seeing the value in the things
Speaker 1: that we purchase. Like it's just such a nasty tool
Speaker 1: that puts us on the back foot, really, And like,
Speaker 1: I don't mean to keep talking about my engagement shoes,
Speaker 1: but I do adore them. I separated my up and
Speaker 1: created a little fund for that and kept putting money
Speaker 1: in until I knew I could afford them, And then
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks before my engagement, I ended up
Speaker 1: buying them because I had enough money in that account
Speaker 1: for them, and then they were sitting in my wardrobe
Speaker 1: and I could not wait to put them on. But
Speaker 1: for me, that was a bit of a long term
Speaker 1: gratification thing because I knew what I was working towards,
Speaker 1: where so often we're not planning purchases with after pay
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of people message me and
Speaker 1: they're like, Victoria, I don't know where you're talking about.
Speaker 1: People should just use it responsibly. It works really well
Speaker 1: for me, Like I just use it, and it means
Speaker 1: that I don't have to separate with my money, and
Speaker 1: I can budget and I can cash flow better. And
Speaker 1: I'm just like, great, But you're not the majority. You're
Speaker 1: the minority, and that's exactly how you would be using it.
Speaker 1: And I would have no negative opinions on buy now,
Speaker 1: pay later if that's how everybody used it. But how
Speaker 1: many people get buy now, pay later with the intention
Speaker 1: of doing just that, And then it spirals out of control,
Speaker 1: Like we literally had a money dires George who was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I've spent like eighty grand on after pay and I
Speaker 1: just didn't know until I'd calculated it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's not who we are. That's not in line
Speaker 1: with our values, and I think that if it works
Speaker 1: for you, great, Like the business as a whole is
Speaker 1: clearly a very well run business. It is doing things
Speaker 1: that a lot of businesses wish they could. And as
Speaker 1: an investor, quote cool, I see the value. But as
Speaker 1: a consumer who cares about their community, I just don't
Speaker 1: see it as a positive thing.
Speaker 3: Well, like, a little bit of guilt is probably a
Speaker 3: good thing, right, Like, obviously we're condemning it on a
Speaker 3: larger scale through this episode, and we're really unpacking how
Speaker 3: dangerous it can be and how it's a little bit
Speaker 3: of guilt's good. It can stop from making some silly,
Speaker 3: silly choices exactly.
Speaker 1: Like it's one of the reasons why we don't do
Speaker 1: some things. You'd be like, oh, I wish I could
Speaker 1: do that, but I'd feel guilty, like I'm not going
Speaker 1: to take advantage of a situation. I feel like I
Speaker 1: am talking about this, I guess arguably really passionately because
Speaker 1: I harbor a lot of guilt. I always feel guilty
Speaker 1: about everything I do. I'm like, oh my god, Like
Speaker 1: did I just say something that would have offended Georgia,
Speaker 1: like she said bye? But usually she says, but I
Speaker 1: love you, like, do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm someone who is arguably very self were but also
Speaker 1: quite anxious, and I think for anybody else who does
Speaker 1: have anxiety like that is heightened, like and it's even
Speaker 1: worse because you're like, oh my god, like you catastrophize
Speaker 1: it and it blows out of proportion. So I think
Speaker 1: writing things down, doing a bit of journaling, understanding your
Speaker 1: budget and your cash flow is going to put you
Speaker 1: in a far better position because you can contextualize it.
Speaker 1: This isn't actually that bad. I shouldn't feel bad about
Speaker 1: spending money on things that I genuinely need.
Speaker 3: Gil, You've just gone exactly where I was about to
Speaker 3: finish today's episode. I wanted to talk through some of
Speaker 3: the real solutions.
Speaker 1: But not my anxiety. Oh okay, yeah, no problems. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about solutions. Let's talk about solutions.
Speaker 3: So we were talking about like journaling and writing things
Speaker 3: down and figuring it out that way. What else can
Speaker 3: we do?
Speaker 1: There's a free budget on the She's on the Money
Speaker 1: website that you can go and download that is super basic,
Speaker 1: but it does what you need it to do to
Speaker 1: get a good idea of what's coming into your bank
Speaker 1: account and what is leaving, so I would do that.
Speaker 1: Cash flow plan is very very important. Obviously, I am
Speaker 1: a very passionate believer in now By and cash Flow
Speaker 1: master Class, because it doesn't just set you up with
Speaker 1: a budget, like it's not the free budget on the website.
Speaker 1: It's an entire tool that then tells you how to
Speaker 1: save for your goals, and it breaks everything down into
Speaker 1: the bank accounts that you need to have. So not
Speaker 1: only is it like, okay, we'll have these six bank accounts,
Speaker 1: it tells you, based on what you choose, whether it's weekly, monthly, fortnightly, annually,
Speaker 1: how much money needs to go into each of those
Speaker 1: accounts to make those goals actually happen. So I'm a
Speaker 1: big believer of that. But it's also about kind of
Speaker 1: planning joy and making sure that in your budget you
Speaker 1: have things for you. Let's be reasonable about ours spending.
Speaker 1: If you're going to go and download the budget and
Speaker 1: start filling it in, don't just look at the incidentals
Speaker 1: that you go, well, rent okay, phone bill okay, Like
Speaker 1: go and print out and you guys are going to
Speaker 1: hate this. Go and print out three months worth of
Speaker 1: your bank statements, because I guarantee you you are spending
Speaker 1: money on things that you don't even know you're spending
Speaker 1: money on, like oh, I have coffee here and there,
Speaker 1: not worth putting in the budget. Yes it is. Go
Speaker 1: and have a look at your spending over the last
Speaker 1: three months and take two different colored highlighters. Grab a
Speaker 1: green one for the things that are out of your
Speaker 1: control like rent and bills and you know, paying for
Speaker 1: childcare and things that you cannot right now control, and
Speaker 1: then get a different color highlight up and highlight all
Speaker 1: those distractionary costs, like what are you actually spending on
Speaker 1: Uber eats? What are you actually spending going out for
Speaker 1: a quick bev on Friday night with the girls, Because
Speaker 1: those things do add up. And if you're feeling guilty
Speaker 1: about your spending, let's just normalize it. Let's work out
Speaker 1: a place to have bevies with the girls on a
Speaker 1: Friday night in your budget, baby, exactly, so you don't
Speaker 1: feel guilty about that, because we don't want that. That's
Speaker 1: not living.
Speaker 3: G No, that's not living. I love this episode, my girl,
Speaker 3: A really good conversation about the importance of balance. I
Speaker 3: feel I think so, which, Yeah, we can all think
Speaker 3: we've done? Absolutely we are Shall I do the rep.
Speaker 1: I would love to show it once again.
Speaker 3: Alrighty guys, please remember that the advice shed on She's
Speaker 3: on the Money is general in nature and does not
Speaker 3: consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely
Speaker 3: for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to
Speaker 3: make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise.
Speaker 3: Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of in Focused Securities
Speaker 3: Australia Propriety Limited ABN four seven zero nine seven seven
Speaker 3: nine seven zero four nine AFOSL two three six five two.
Speaker 1: Three stella perfect. She did so well. You are learning
Speaker 1: very nicely. But you know where else you learn? Geking
Speaker 1: in our Facebook group certainly we would love to see
Speaker 1: you there if you haven't joined already. It is where
Speaker 1: our community shares money, tips and tricks every single week,
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Speaker 1: on TikTok. We aren't gen Z, but we are trying
Speaker 1: and we would appreciate your support. See you later, guys.
Speaker 3: Bye, guys, do you