1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples. 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present, 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast 10 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Over the last few years, 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 3: we have seen so many of you transform your relationships 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 3: with money. We've seen prolific spenders become savvy savers. We've 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: seen micro investors opening on share folios, and we've seen 14 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 3: after pay addicts closing their accounts for good legends. What 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 3: we've also noticed, though, is that many of us who 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 3: have worked so hard to overhaul our finances and now 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: starting to feel a sense of guilt around our spending. 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 3: Not only is this feeling a drainer, but surprisingly it 19 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 3: can also serve to jeopardize our finances. My name is 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 3: Georgia King, and joining me to unpack how we can 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: manage spending guilt is financial advisor Victoria Devine. Hello, what 22 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 3: was the last thing you felt guilty about purchasing? My girl? 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: Oh? 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: Are we really doing? This? 25 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 3: Was your engagement party quite recently? Ask about I know 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: you can ask about the shoes, isn't it could be 27 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 3: the shoes. Yeah, I spend a lot of money on 28 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 3: a pair of shoes. I regret nothing good. I don't 29 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: feel guilty. 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: Interesting because it was email budget. It's one of those 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: things who for those of you playing along at home, 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: I bought a very very nice pair of Jimmy Choo shoes. 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: They have pink bows, ones on the front, ones on 34 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: the back, very sassy, very I felt very mean, like 35 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: very basically you were basically the blush of shees on 36 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: the money, same color, like I just felt like I 37 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: needed them, but they were a part of the budget. 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: And what was not a part of the budget was 39 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: a headband. And I really wanted a headband, but I 40 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: wasn't going to spend thousands of dollars on the one 41 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: that I actually wanted, so I just crafted it myself, 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: jeeking with a sassy little three dollar clearance Kmart headband 43 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: and I hands stitched some pearls onto it from a 44 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: necklace I bought from Diva in circa twenty ten. 45 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 3: Stop it. It worked well and well it looked impressive. 46 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: We were talking before the show and apparently you got 47 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 3: lots of dms about where you I have found this. 48 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: But I made it, guys. But it's all about balance, 49 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: and it's all about purchasing in line with your values. 50 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: And it's not something that I do all the time, 51 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: going and buying a pair of designer shoes. And you 52 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: know what, I don't even know if that's the most 53 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: relatable example, but I wanted to give it because it's 54 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: a real one from my life and it's just one 55 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: of those things that it made me feel special. I 56 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: have worked my hardest over the last couple of years, 57 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: and do you know what I feel like? I deserve 58 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: to feel really nice, and so do you, guys. It's 59 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 1: not necessary achievement. It's not about having to mark very 60 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: important things with big purchases. It's more about looking after 61 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: yourself and knowing that self care is really important and 62 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: it does actually stretch into our finances. But we're going 63 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: to break down exactly why you might be feeling guilty 64 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: and how that works and how to overcome it throughout 65 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: the show. 66 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 3: Ji, Yeah, it's definitely something that I've struggled with in 67 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: the past, so I am very excited about I feel. 68 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: Like you're a frugal little spender. I was give us 69 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: the goss. How'd you get through that? Why did you 70 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: get through that? 71 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: In terms of overcoming that feeling of it? 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: Used to be so frugal in a good way, Like 73 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: that's why you have a very healthy savings account. It's 74 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: not a bad habit to have, but feeling guilty about purchases, 75 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: that is a bad habit. You know what. 76 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 3: I think it is really tied to my personality. I'm 77 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: someone who like prides myself on myself discipline, which might 78 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: be surprising because I feel like on the podcast I 79 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: come across as a bit of a goose. 80 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: You're not a ghost. Nobody thinks you're a goost. 81 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: Well maybe that was a very goose like voice, but 82 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: I think it got pretty unhealthy. Not nothing too serious, 83 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 3: but yeah, it just I was not really reaping any 84 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: reward from how hard I was working, and I just 85 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: kind of it kind of clicked for me that you 86 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: can enjoy the fruits of your labor. 87 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: Bo can our last dome? 88 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: Yes? And you know, also I probably started earning a 89 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 3: little bit more money as well as I graduate a little. 90 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: Bit urther and came a work She's on the money correct. 91 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know. I guess that's my little story. 92 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: But I like that and I think it's really relatable. 93 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us, especially on our 94 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: money journeys, we've got our heads in the sand about 95 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: our spending and then we pull them out and we 96 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: get our budget together, and we get our finances together, 97 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: and we're talking about cash flow and we've done what 98 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: we think is the best thing for us. But then 99 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: we start to feel really guilty about looking after ourselves. 100 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: Or you know, a couple of weeks ago, we had 101 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: somebody write in and their money when it was buying 102 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: jeans and not feeling guilty about it. 103 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: Really I like that. 104 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: I really loved that, because you deserve to be looked 105 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: after as well, Like you're not working this hard for 106 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: just future you. I think life is about the journey 107 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: as much as it is about the destination, which if 108 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: you've ever met my dad, Eric design, he says all 109 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: all the time. And I think it's about, you know, 110 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: making sure that you're looked after, but also looking after 111 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: yourself in the interim exactly. And that needs to be 112 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: built into our budgets and our cash flow because otherwise 113 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: we end up burnt out, or we might end up 114 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: absolutely blowing at all, or not liking the budgeting process 115 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: or not liking managing money at all because it just 116 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: consistently stresses you out. 117 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's talk about guilty pleasures. 118 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: Fee, Pana chocolate, Pana chocolate and Pana ice cream or 119 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: now you can get it on sale for like seven 120 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: dollars a tab at Cols. Sometimes Pana ice cream and 121 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: ice cream. 122 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 3: Have you tried the banana one? 123 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, the banana the Banoffi one is the best. But 124 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: you're talking about money guilty questions, So back on track, Fee, 125 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: We love our pana, But do you believe in guilty 126 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: pleasures as like an idea as a concept? Absolutely? I 127 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: Do we all deserve a little pick me up sometimes, 128 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: whether that is ice cream or financial or it is 129 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, looking after ourselves and giving ourselves a little 130 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: pedicure after a long week at work. Like, it doesn't 131 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: matter what it is, it doesn't have to be expensive, 132 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: or it could be really expensive, like the time I 133 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: bought those shoes for my engagement and I regret absolutely 134 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: nothing about it. Someone asked me if I was trying 135 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: to sell them. I was like, oh, no, very achievement 136 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: to me. I'm probably going to box them, like in 137 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: a clear box and put them in my wardrobe. So 138 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: I look at them every day because I'm obsessed. But 139 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: having guilty pleasures is so important because it's again really 140 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: tired to self care. So before we keep talking about 141 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: our guilty pleasures of making them, okay, let's actually unpack 142 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: for a minute what is guilty. Let's talk about how 143 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: that works. So when you hurt somebody else, guilt is 144 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: an absolutely natural and very important emotional response that encourages 145 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: the repair of valuable relationships and discourages acts that could 146 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: damage them. So that's kind of nice to know that 147 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: as humans, that's ingrained in us. I think there are 148 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: some people who don't have that, and that's kind of scary, 149 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: but that's all right. But what about when you hurt 150 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: yourself by going against your own standards or your own plans. 151 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: Guilty is a very important indicator of this, and it 152 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: actually can be super productive if you're paying attention to 153 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: it and you're looking at what that's trying to tell you. 154 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: So we're not saying have no guilt, ever, like don't 155 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: feel guilty over your spending, Like you probably should be 156 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: experiencing a bit of guilt if you've been budgeting and 157 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: saving for ages and then you go and blow it 158 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: on something that wasn't aligned to your values or your goals. 159 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: But there's probably a reason you've done that. We need 160 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: to deeply understand that as opposed to crucifying ourselves. And 161 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: I think we also hold a lot of guilt about 162 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: our historics. Right, So, like people often say to me like, 163 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wish that I had done better, 164 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: I wish I knew better, or I'm so stupid I 165 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: never did X, Y and Z. But I do genuinely 166 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: believe that that doesn't help anybody, like harboring guilt for 167 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: past decisions that arguably never hurt anybody except for your 168 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: financial position. Like that's past you, and they did the 169 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: best that they could with the tools and the resources 170 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: they had at the time. It's not necessarily about going 171 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: wish I knew better. G I can't believe it I 172 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: was so dumb. You weren't so dumb. You just didn't 173 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: have the tools and resources that you have today. And 174 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: that's fine, and we're learning and growing. But when you're spending, 175 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: it is a cognitive battle for hills between your emotions 176 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: and then the rational parts of your brain. As the 177 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: part of the brain that's involved in spending is actually 178 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: the same part that loves the good dopamine hit g 179 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: and like spending that gives you that dopamine hit. That's 180 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: why some people have spending addictions and shopping addictions, because 181 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: it's not actually about the item they're purchasing. It's about 182 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: the thrill that they experience when they part with some money, 183 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: which is really traumatic and can be really hard for 184 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I think too often it's 185 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,119 Speaker 1: trivialized in a way that makes people feel like crap 186 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: about themselves. G Like the Diaries of a shopoholic? Like cool? 187 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: Would you have a TV show called the Diaries of 188 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: an alcoholic? Yeah? 189 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 3: No? No? 190 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: Like it just makes me feel a bit ick, But 191 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: that's me because I am so wildly passionate about and 192 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: cover myself. That sounds weird. I don't cover myself in money, 193 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: but I definitely surround myself with money conversations, so I 194 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: feel like I understand it a bit deeper than the 195 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: average bear. 196 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: So do you not go home and have baths in cash? 197 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. 198 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: I thought that's what you did. 199 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: It's actually yeah, no, no, no, I just like use 200 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: it as the like the wash cloth in the shower. 201 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 3: Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous. I want to give you some stats. 202 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 3: I love stat stats, skills, marriaging. It's been a while 203 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 3: I wanted to take a look at the money that 204 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 3: Australians have and are allocating. So, according to the ABS 205 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, the average household spends one four 206 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five dollars per week on essential and 207 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: non essential living expenses, with the top expenses being housing 208 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 3: costs at two hundred and seventy nine dollars. Makes sense, 209 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 3: Food and non alcoholic beverages two hundred and thirty seven dollars. 210 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: That comes in at transport is then two hundred and 211 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 3: seven dollars, and recreation is one hundred and seventy two. 212 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: I wish I knew what they were doing for recreation. 213 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess that's you know, catching up at 214 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: the bar for a little bevy. 215 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. I feel like I don't have enough hobbies. 216 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: I feel like I need more recreation in my life. 217 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: I just work. You know, you meet them at parties, 218 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: They're like, what do you do? And you kind of go. 219 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: I don't really want to tell them what I do 220 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: for work, but they're like, what do you do for fun? 221 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: And I don't really know. Work is fun, work is 222 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: really fun. 223 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: Let's look at low income households now, so they dedicate 224 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: a relatively higher portion of their spending to housings. That's 225 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 3: trying to makes sense because housing's expense exactly. Food and 226 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 3: non alcoholic beverages come in at nineteen percent, Domestic fuel 227 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 3: and power is then five percent, and that's compared to 228 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: high income households, which are so eighteen percent, fourteen percent, 229 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: and two percent respectively. 230 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: Wow, that's quite interesting. I feel like it's super interesting. 231 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: But I also think that we need to realize that 232 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: spending money is necessary to live in our world. We 233 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: shouldn't feel guilty about spending at all. And it's not 234 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: like you're listening to this episode for me to give 235 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: you permission and go, all right, ge, don't feel guilty 236 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: anymore about spending money. It's more about going, well, why 237 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: do you feel guilty? How does this work? Can we 238 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: break this down a little bit more, because from my perspective, 239 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: spending around guilt comes from a couple of places. It 240 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: could be ingrained in your money story. You could have 241 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: had a money story where you feel really guilty because 242 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: you grew up maybe in poverty, and now you're absolutely thriving, 243 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: and you just feel really awful about the fact that 244 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: you know your parents couldn't do what you get to 245 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: do today, and that can lead to some guilt which 246 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: I genuinely think you should get some therapy for. Like, 247 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: genuinely there is nothing better than therapy, and I'm sure 248 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: that basically everybody in the Shees on the Money team 249 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: is going to tell you that. But it's one of 250 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: those things where it could be so ingrained in your 251 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: money story that you didn't even know that that's where 252 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: it was coming from. It could be the flip side 253 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: where you just feel out of control and therefore guilty 254 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: because you're like, oh my gosh, I just bought this 255 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: new skirt and I think I have rent or I 256 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: think I have a bill coming up. Because you're not 257 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: clear on your budget or your cash flow or what's 258 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: coming up. We're in reality, a budget should actually be 259 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: a tool that empowers us. It shouldn't be a tool 260 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: where it limits us and goes all, right, JA, so 261 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: we've done your budget, seventy bucks a week on groceries done, 262 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: Wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Like that is not how 263 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: it works. It's actually about truly understanding how much money 264 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: is coming into your account and how much leaves it 265 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: and for what. It's not about judging ourselves on those splits. 266 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: And that's actually why in my book and in everything 267 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: that we have spoken about historically, it's really about your money. 268 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: It's not about percentages. And I know the other advisors 269 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: historically have always said, oh, spend you know, thirty percent 270 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: on this and twenty percent on this and save ten percent. Like, 271 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: I just don't think that works for anybody. And the 272 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: stats you just shared were really reflective of that, because 273 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: you look at people who are on lower incomes, and 274 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,359 Speaker 1: of course they are going to spend a higher percentage 275 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: of their income on housing because housing is really expensive. 276 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: But if you are making bank and decide to live in, 277 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, a cheaper house, you can spend like five 278 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: percent on rent. So I think it's really unfair to 279 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: set similar standards or similar percentage points for people, because 280 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: if you're on a forty thousand dollar income, that split 281 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: is going to be very significantly different to someone who's 282 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: earning four hundred thousand dollars. It's so important to contextualize that, 283 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: but also give yourself permission to spend on yourself and 284 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: go all right, well regardless of whether I am a 285 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: low income or a high income, and I still deserve 286 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: something for me if it's in budget. And I mean, 287 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: this is a very privileged position to be in, Like 288 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: you might feel really guilty because you're leaving off benefits 289 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: and you have two kids to feed and you just 290 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: don't have the capacity to save. And I'm very very 291 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: aware that that is a situation that exists in our country. 292 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: It's not to say that you should feel guilty about 293 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: spending like, I just want you as well to be 294 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: empowered about the decisions you're making around money. It's not 295 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: to say, oh my gosh, well you should be saving instead. 296 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: That's not it at all. It's about relieving the guilt 297 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: you feel when you make a transaction. And sometimes people 298 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: feel guilty around their energy bill, like that's a hygiene factor. G. 299 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: We have to pay our energy bill and others are 300 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: just feeling guilty when they spend an extra couple of 301 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: dollars on a latte once a week. I think we 302 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: really need to give ourselves permission to live the lives 303 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: where you want to, because you freaking deserve to. 304 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: But in saying that as well, don't just put it 305 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: all on after pay and worry about it later. 306 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, it's no, it's spending the money 307 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: you have. We're not talking about going into debt like 308 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: that's another story. Yes, you're really trying to make me rant. 309 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: Oh triggered. 310 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 3: Let's stay on track. How prevalent is guilt around spend? 311 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 3: I know we see it in the community all the time. 312 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 3: We do so like anecdotally, we see it really often. Yes, 313 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: we've seen it so often. G. We did a whole 314 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: episode on it. 315 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: You're welcome. But a study done in twenty eighteen actually 316 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: revealed that seventy two percent of Australians g had guilt 317 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: when spending, and twenty two percent of those experienced that 318 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: feeling regularly. 319 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: How awful interesting? 320 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: Seventy two percent of our community feel guilt when spending 321 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: and then twenty two percent of that group they feel 322 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: that consistently. That's a really big number of people. 323 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: G massive, that's really I didn't expect it to be 324 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: that large, actually no, I thought that like maybe like 325 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 3: thirty percent of people felt guilty, but like seventy two 326 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 3: percent is massive. 327 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: And then further to that, an American study done in 328 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen by our leading crowdsource shopping platform commissioned a 329 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: survey of two thousand Americans, and that revealed that more 330 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: than half of Americans say they feel guilty about spending money. 331 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: That kind of makes sense, but Australia we feel even 332 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: more guilty. 333 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: There's also a difference in gender, right, of. 334 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: Course, is there's always a different in gender. Twenty two 335 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: percent of our Australian respondents they actually refrain from buying 336 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: things that they couldn't afford, and females actually three times 337 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: more likely than a male to feel guilty around this 338 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: spending habits. Go figure, Jeeking, It's not surprising, is it. No? 339 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 3: What do you put that down to though? Just our 340 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 3: general likesting? 341 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think the general pressure on us to 342 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: exist and be profitable and fruitful and all of those 343 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: other things, Like I just think that the pressure on 344 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: women is so much more significant than it is on men. 345 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: And I mean, I could rant about how the entire 346 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: world was made for men here, like from the way 347 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: our bank accounts work, to medications and testing all the 348 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: way through to the way that jobs work. Like the 349 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: world was basically made for men, and then there's women. 350 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: We came in and had to slot into the way 351 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: that they work. And I say this not just because 352 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, we have to slot into a man's world, 353 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: but there is literally scientific research that says that men 354 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: actually exist on a twenty four hour circadium cycle, So 355 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: they have hormones in their body same way as we do, 356 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: but their hormones peak in the morning and then all 357 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: throughout the day they dwindle and they get tired and 358 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: they go back and they are literally most productive between 359 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: nine and five PM. Go figure. But then women, our 360 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: cycle g goes through twenty eight days, and there are 361 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: different times at which we have different hormones running through 362 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: our bodies based on how our bodies work. So literally, 363 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: the nine to five grind doesn't work for women, but 364 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: we've slotted into it anyway. So I feel like we 365 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: are already uncomfortable with the way we generate income and 366 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: do life, so I'm genuinely not surprised that women are 367 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: feeling worse about this, because we just feel worse about 368 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: the way everything works. 369 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: Really, that's interesting. 370 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: It's super pervy, isn't it. 371 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 3: You're like, what, so you know, I feel like there's 372 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 3: almost a perception that the interests of women are more frivolous, 373 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: so we might spend money on makeup and pretty addresses 374 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: and stuff like that, whereas men, I don't know what 375 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: they're buying. Soccerble is that? Yeah, that's where my mind went. 376 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's what my partner does, soccer balls, golf balls, 377 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: golf outfits. Recently kids, we love golf kits. 378 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 3: So do you think there is then this idea that 379 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 3: our interests are silly, so we should feel guilty for 380 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: spending our money on such silly little things, little girly 381 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 3: things like Is there any truth in that? Do you think? 382 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: Absolutely not? Because as much as that's ingrained in us, 383 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: and obviously we are very much of the opinion that 384 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: you should only ever do things that make you happy. 385 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: It's not for other people, but like those things were 386 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: made to please men, like there were handbooks on how 387 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: we should behave and how we should apply makeup before 388 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: our husbands came home in the nineteen fifties, Like, these 389 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: things are basically to appease men, like and I don't 390 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: dress for men. I dress to impress other women. Otherwise 391 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have bought expensive shoes, you know, because no 392 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: man that I am aware of that is straight is 393 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: ever going to be like, oh v god. 394 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 3: Shoes, love the double box, love the double bo who 395 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: designed bows. 396 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean, all my gay friends, they were like, oh 397 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: my god, them Yeah, they're like literally they all knew. 398 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where I think that 399 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: it's ingrained in us, but we really need to distill 400 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: down why it's ingrained in us and whether that actually 401 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: makes us happy And is it such a bad thing 402 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: to be spending money on things that make us happy 403 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: and more productive and makes us feel good to go 404 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: to work, Like no, it's the cost of being alive. 405 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: Interesting. I love where this episode is going. It's become 406 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: quite the feminist little rant, and that's what we're about here. 407 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: Money that is very unlike me. 408 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 3: Unlike us. I think for now we'll go to a 409 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 3: little break and then we'll jump back on the other side. 410 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 3: Victoria Devine, what causes guilt and what do you think 411 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 3: that tells us about ourselves? And like human psychology, you 412 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: have a background in psych talks through it. 413 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: Oh look, I'm not practicing psych Can you imagine if 414 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: I was? It's I just go on rants, Like I 415 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 1: just don't know how someone who has such strong opinions 416 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: like I do would ever be a really really good psychologist, 417 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: because like, can you imagine I'd be sitting in like 418 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: a therapy session with someone and they'd be telling me 419 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: about their shitty partner, and I'd be like, all right, Georgia, 420 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: you just leave, you just gotta leave. Like I would 421 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: not be a helpful therapist. Maybe that's helpful though. I 422 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: would have been kicked out of the industry. That's why 423 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: I ended up in finance, because they're all dodgy here, right. 424 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, guilt again, we covered this at the start, 425 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: but it's really good to recap. It's a symptom of 426 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: inaction or not being in control, and most of us, 427 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: especially women, love to feel like we are in control. 428 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: So it's really about understanding a money story and where 429 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: that's coming from and why we might feel that way, 430 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: and a money story isn't necessarily just how you grew 431 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: up around money. It could be Gee, you're just feeling 432 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: really guilty because you've got a pay rise and it's 433 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: a really nice pay rise, but you haven't done anything 434 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: with it. You've just started spending some money and then 435 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 1: you know, looked at your bank account at the end 436 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 1: of the month and you're like, wow, like, I already 437 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: spent everything that I earned in addition to what I 438 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: used to, and you're feeling a bit of guilt about that. 439 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: So I don't think it's always a really really bad thing, 440 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: but I think if you are feeling guilt around money, 441 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: we actually need to sit down have a chat. You 442 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: and I need to go through your budget and through 443 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: your cash flow and go why are you feeling like this? 444 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: And are the purchases you are making reasonable or not, 445 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: because sometimes they are going to be more than reasonable 446 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: and you should harbor absolutely no guilt about them at all. 447 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: Like you need a new pair of jeans, or you 448 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: need to buy a new pair of shoes for work. 449 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: And this is like a reminder to all of my 450 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: nurse friends who haven't bought new shoes for work. That 451 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: they keep telling themselves to do go and do that. 452 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: But it's one of those things that maybe if you 453 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: are being a little bit naughty with your spending and 454 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: you're not on top of your budget and cash flow, 455 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: that guilt could be an indicator that we just need 456 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: to make some changes, We need to tighten things up 457 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: and do a little bit of reflecting. But at the 458 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: end of the day, both of those outcomes are going 459 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: to be managed by a good and solid cash flow plan. 460 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: It's not about being on a strict budget. It's about 461 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: understanding every dollar that comes in and every dollar that 462 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: goes out. 463 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: Gee amazing, And we will dig into those solutions a 464 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 3: little later in the show. I want us to ask 465 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 3: you if spending guilt is different to other kinds of 466 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: money related guilt. 467 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: I think it is, But I think guilt around money 468 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: is a very common theme in our community. Whether that 469 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: is guilt from having money or saving money, or you 470 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: feel as though maybe you don't deserve the money that 471 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: you have been afforded from an inheritance, which we've covered 472 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: in an entire episode on its own g But then 473 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: there's also guilt where you have our earned parents or 474 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: our earned family members or even for just friends. And 475 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: I think that we really need to break that down 476 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: about why, when, where, how, how does that work? And 477 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 1: communication is the key here. We need to be talking 478 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: about what we are earning and talking about what we're spending, 479 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: and surrounding ourselves with people who are so supportive of us. 480 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: No one should be making you feel shitty about how 481 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: much you earn, whether it's too little or too much, 482 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: Like that is not a conversation anybody should be having 483 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: with you. They should be so supportive of whatever you're 484 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: up to. 485 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 3: Let's have a little chat now about our friends at 486 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 3: after pay. 487 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: V Oh, and that's a very liberal term to have 488 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: used in the same sentence as after Pay. 489 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 3: Anyone who's ever listened to this show, I would say, 490 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: is pretty aware of our true feelings about after Pay. 491 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 3: Would you say that one of its biggest dangers is 492 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: that we actually bypass the important regulator of guilt when 493 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 3: using it. 494 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. How many times and you know I haven't 495 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: done this, but how many times have people been like 496 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: on the iconic and they're like, oh my god, that's 497 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: a gorgeous dress. So much easier to swallow if it's 498 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 1: just fifty bucks. Every so often right, like, that's much easier, 499 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: So they're kind of taking the pain out of the transaction. 500 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: And that's something that I'm really passionate about talking about, 501 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: and that's why I have the banking structure that I have, 502 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: where I think I've spoken about it historically, and if not, 503 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: go back and listen to our budget and cash flow episodes. 504 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: But I'm very passionate about having a food, fuel, and 505 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: fun account, and that's where all my money for my 506 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: groceries and my brunches and my drinks with my friends go, 507 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: any fun I'm having, and when I go to the 508 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: petrol station, and that's basically a debit card that I 509 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: just tap when I am spending that money, and I 510 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: never feel guilty because it's pre allocated. But the reason 511 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: it's pre allocated is because I know in my head 512 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: how much each week gets transferred to that account and 513 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: what I can spend and I still am in control 514 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: of that transaction and how much it kind of hurts 515 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: in a way. I don't want to use the word hurt, 516 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: but you know exactly what I mean. But I want 517 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: to feel that I want to go okay. I know 518 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: that I've got two hundred and fifty dollars in that 519 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: account and I'm going to go out for brunch and 520 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to shout George. So that's fifty, okay, I'll 521 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: have two hundred at the end of it, and I 522 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: keep track of it in that way, whereas you tend 523 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: to lose control of what you owe and how you 524 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: owe it and where it's going when you're like, oh, 525 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: I'll just chuck it on after pay because it doesn't 526 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: feel like a real transaction. You feel like you're getting 527 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: that outcome, like you're like you get that dopamine hit 528 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: of the transaction, you get the dopamine hit of getting 529 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: the gorgeous new dress, but you don't get any of 530 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: the pain of separating yourself from that money. And I 531 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: think it's really detrimental because it's manifesting in I guess 532 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: short term gratification being the norm. And if you compare 533 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: that to historically, we all know a mum that headed 534 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: to the Mornington target in July for the toy to 535 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: put stuff on layby for Christmas. And that was a 536 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: genius idea where mums could budget and make sure that 537 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: they had everything that they wanted for Christmas that year 538 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: by putting it on layby and paying it off over time. 539 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: But it also fostered long term gratification because how often 540 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: did they pick up a toy or you know, I 541 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: know that sometimes I got to pick one out and 542 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: it would go on to the layby, and I was 543 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: like psyched about it. From July to December. I knew 544 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: it was coming, was this long term gratification, And when 545 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: I finally got it that toy was epic. When was 546 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: the last time you had that feeling? 547 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, you've nailed it. 548 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: I just feel like we don't have that anymore familiar instant. 549 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 550 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: I don't think we should have such an instant gratification 551 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: because it leads to us not caring about things. It 552 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: leads to us not seeing the value in the things 553 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: that we purchase. Like it's just such a nasty tool 554 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: that puts us on the back foot, really, And like, 555 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: I don't mean to keep talking about my engagement shoes, 556 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: but I do adore them. I separated my up and 557 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: created a little fund for that and kept putting money 558 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: in until I knew I could afford them, And then 559 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks before my engagement, I ended up 560 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: buying them because I had enough money in that account 561 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: for them, and then they were sitting in my wardrobe 562 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: and I could not wait to put them on. But 563 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: for me, that was a bit of a long term 564 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: gratification thing because I knew what I was working towards, 565 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: where so often we're not planning purchases with after pay 566 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of people message me and 567 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: they're like, Victoria, I don't know where you're talking about. 568 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: People should just use it responsibly. It works really well 569 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: for me, Like I just use it, and it means 570 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: that I don't have to separate with my money, and 571 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: I can budget and I can cash flow better. And 572 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm just like, great, But you're not the majority. You're 573 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: the minority, and that's exactly how you would be using it. 574 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: And I would have no negative opinions on buy now, 575 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: pay later if that's how everybody used it. But how 576 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: many people get buy now, pay later with the intention 577 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: of doing just that, And then it spirals out of control, 578 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: Like we literally had a money dires George who was like, oh, 579 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: I've spent like eighty grand on after pay and I 580 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: just didn't know until I'd calculated it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 581 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: Like that's not who we are. That's not in line 582 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: with our values, and I think that if it works 583 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: for you, great, Like the business as a whole is 584 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: clearly a very well run business. It is doing things 585 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: that a lot of businesses wish they could. And as 586 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: an investor, quote cool, I see the value. But as 587 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: a consumer who cares about their community, I just don't 588 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: see it as a positive thing. 589 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: Well, like, a little bit of guilt is probably a 590 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 3: good thing, right, Like, obviously we're condemning it on a 591 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 3: larger scale through this episode, and we're really unpacking how 592 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 3: dangerous it can be and how it's a little bit 593 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: of guilt's good. It can stop from making some silly, 594 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 3: silly choices exactly. 595 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: Like it's one of the reasons why we don't do 596 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: some things. You'd be like, oh, I wish I could 597 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: do that, but I'd feel guilty, like I'm not going 598 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: to take advantage of a situation. I feel like I 599 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: am talking about this, I guess arguably really passionately because 600 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: I harbor a lot of guilt. I always feel guilty 601 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: about everything I do. I'm like, oh my god, Like 602 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: did I just say something that would have offended Georgia, 603 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: like she said bye? But usually she says, but I 604 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: love you, like, do you know what I mean? Like, 605 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: I'm someone who is arguably very self were but also 606 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: quite anxious, and I think for anybody else who does 607 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: have anxiety like that is heightened, like and it's even 608 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: worse because you're like, oh my god, like you catastrophize 609 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: it and it blows out of proportion. So I think 610 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: writing things down, doing a bit of journaling, understanding your 611 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: budget and your cash flow is going to put you 612 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: in a far better position because you can contextualize it. 613 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: This isn't actually that bad. I shouldn't feel bad about 614 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: spending money on things that I genuinely need. 615 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 3: Gil, You've just gone exactly where I was about to 616 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 3: finish today's episode. I wanted to talk through some of 617 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 3: the real solutions. 618 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: But not my anxiety. Oh okay, yeah, no problems. Let's 619 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: talk about solutions. Let's talk about solutions. 620 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 3: So we were talking about like journaling and writing things 621 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 3: down and figuring it out that way. What else can 622 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 3: we do? 623 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: There's a free budget on the She's on the Money 624 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: website that you can go and download that is super basic, 625 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: but it does what you need it to do to 626 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: get a good idea of what's coming into your bank 627 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: account and what is leaving, so I would do that. 628 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,239 Speaker 1: Cash flow plan is very very important. Obviously, I am 629 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: a very passionate believer in now By and cash Flow 630 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: master Class, because it doesn't just set you up with 631 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: a budget, like it's not the free budget on the website. 632 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: It's an entire tool that then tells you how to 633 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: save for your goals, and it breaks everything down into 634 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: the bank accounts that you need to have. So not 635 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: only is it like, okay, we'll have these six bank accounts, 636 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: it tells you, based on what you choose, whether it's weekly, monthly, fortnightly, annually, 637 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: how much money needs to go into each of those 638 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: accounts to make those goals actually happen. So I'm a 639 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: big believer of that. But it's also about kind of 640 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: planning joy and making sure that in your budget you 641 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: have things for you. Let's be reasonable about ours spending. 642 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: If you're going to go and download the budget and 643 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: start filling it in, don't just look at the incidentals 644 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: that you go, well, rent okay, phone bill okay, Like 645 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: go and print out and you guys are going to 646 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: hate this. Go and print out three months worth of 647 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: your bank statements, because I guarantee you you are spending 648 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: money on things that you don't even know you're spending 649 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: money on, like oh, I have coffee here and there, 650 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: not worth putting in the budget. Yes it is. Go 651 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: and have a look at your spending over the last 652 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: three months and take two different colored highlighters. Grab a 653 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: green one for the things that are out of your 654 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: control like rent and bills and you know, paying for 655 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: childcare and things that you cannot right now control, and 656 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: then get a different color highlight up and highlight all 657 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: those distractionary costs, like what are you actually spending on 658 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: Uber eats? What are you actually spending going out for 659 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: a quick bev on Friday night with the girls, Because 660 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: those things do add up. And if you're feeling guilty 661 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: about your spending, let's just normalize it. Let's work out 662 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: a place to have bevies with the girls on a 663 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: Friday night in your budget, baby, exactly, so you don't 664 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: feel guilty about that, because we don't want that. That's 665 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: not living. 666 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 3: G No, that's not living. I love this episode, my girl, 667 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 3: A really good conversation about the importance of balance. I 668 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: feel I think so, which, Yeah, we can all think 669 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: we've done? Absolutely we are Shall I do the rep. 670 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: I would love to show it once again. 671 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: Alrighty guys, please remember that the advice shed on She's 672 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: on the Money is general in nature and does not 673 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 3: consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely 674 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to 675 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 3: make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise. 676 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 3: Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of in Focused Securities 677 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 3: Australia Propriety Limited ABN four seven zero nine seven seven 678 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 3: nine seven zero four nine AFOSL two three six five two. 679 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: Three stella perfect. She did so well. You are learning 680 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: very nicely. But you know where else you learn? Geking 681 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: in our Facebook group certainly we would love to see 682 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: you there if you haven't joined already. It is where 683 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: our community shares money, tips and tricks every single week, 684 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: free of judgment. So She's on the Money on Facebook 685 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: and join us. We would love it. Please please please 686 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: do basically begging now, if you think we're begging, don't come. 687 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: It's all good. But if facebook's not, you think you 688 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram where She's on the Money 689 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: a US where als are on TikTok. We're not good 690 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: on TikTok. We aren't gen Z, but we are trying 691 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: and we would appreciate your support. See you later, guys. 692 00:30:47,720 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 3: Bye, guys, do you