Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week. Am I how would
Speaker 1: I describe a television set, oh Man.
Speaker 2: From a headline grabbing point of view, the hack producer
Speaker 2: me says one hundred percent put him in.
Speaker 1: Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris
Speaker 1: and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television.
Speaker 3: Yeah, great questions. The show's about the game. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of great television out there in Australia.
Speaker 1: But I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers.
Speaker 1: The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the news and casting agents they.
Speaker 3: Know from a casting point of view what they need.
Speaker 1: And editors because that's what we do as editors where
Speaker 1: storytellers them. Not to forget some incredible executive producers who
Speaker 1: are making some of the best TV content in Australia.
Speaker 1: I have been on the program since the beginning and
Speaker 1: it's kind of in my DNA. So thanks for joining
Speaker 1: me each week and I hope the podcast continues to
Speaker 1: give you real insight into the magic of te Today.
Speaker 1: On the podcast, I have internationally acclaimed TV producer Sally Woodgate.
Speaker 1: Sally's here to promote her latest project, Ragdoll, which will
Speaker 1: premiere on Binge in Australia today. Ragdoll is an internationally
Speaker 1: co produced thriller series based upon the novel of the
Speaker 1: same name by Daniel Cole. The series follows the murder
Speaker 1: of six people who have been dismembered and sewn together
Speaker 1: in the shape of a grotesque body called the rag Doll.
Speaker 1: As the leading characters begin to investigate, the killer begins
Speaker 1: to taunt them. And I've seen the first two episodes
Speaker 1: and it's really something to see to be believed. The
Speaker 1: series has a unique ability to make you laugh and
Speaker 1: be terrified at the same time, and at times you
Speaker 1: feel like you're watching Signs of the Lambs. But then
Speaker 1: there's a comedic undertone that contrasts that whole feel, and
Speaker 1: the series is almost classified as a comedy. Today, Sally
Speaker 1: and I will unpack the new series with some exclusive
Speaker 1: behind the scenes stories that will leave you reaching for
Speaker 1: a Binge subscription. Sally has teamed up again with Freddie
Speaker 1: Seborne and you would know their work on Killing Eve,
Speaker 1: which became an internationally celebrated hit series which the world
Speaker 1: fell in love with. However, let's get started with today's episode.
Speaker 1: I'd like to welcome producer Sally Wouldgate to this week's
Speaker 1: TV reload.
Speaker 2: We were looking for a long time for a crime story.
Speaker 1: Legg belongs to a blackmaile.
Speaker 2: Because crime police genre, you know, it is universally popularly great.
Speaker 2: I'm you an East Asian female. I think that people
Speaker 2: like to put the jigsaw together and.
Speaker 1: A Crockasian male head.
Speaker 2: I think that life is, you know, in its darkest moments,
Speaker 2: can also be very sort of blackly comic.
Speaker 1: It's not the strangest thing I've ever seen top ten seven.
Speaker 2: Essentially, it's the sort of relationship drama wrapped up in
Speaker 2: a macab killer story.
Speaker 1: Hi, Sally, how are you?
Speaker 3: I'm very well? Thank you? How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm really well? I mean, congratulations on the buzz of
Speaker 1: rag Doll. What an exciting project to come off the
Speaker 1: back of your work on Killing Eve, which was a
Speaker 1: global success. How do you feel at the moment before
Speaker 1: people have seen it.
Speaker 3: Just a little bit exhausted.
Speaker 2: So we had We've got a very very tight post
Speaker 2: production schedule and we're still post producing the whole show.
Speaker 2: So we're just in the moment, we're not I haven't
Speaker 2: even started to engage with the thought that people might
Speaker 2: watch it, so it is a bit scary.
Speaker 1: How did this go, Like after working on a project
Speaker 1: like Killing Eve, which was consumed by people all over
Speaker 1: the world and just loved to Killing Eve open doors
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: I suppose what it did is created a relationship with
Speaker 2: AMC and Killing Eve, which is a really sort of
Speaker 2: easy one and a really collaborative one. So they read
Speaker 2: Rag Doll and we very quickly went into pre production
Speaker 2: on it. So I think that that was the difference,
Speaker 2: is there was no sort of getting to know you,
Speaker 2: can we trust you what you like in production, so
Speaker 2: that was incredibly useful and AMC are brilliant partners, so
Speaker 2: I think that's probably what made the difference.
Speaker 1: Well we'll talk about them a little bit more actually,
Speaker 1: because they'll come up again. But the series follows the
Speaker 1: murder of six people who have been dismembered and sewn
Speaker 1: into the shape of a grotesque body, which is called
Speaker 1: the rag Doll, which the protagonists, i'd say, and you know,
Speaker 1: the detectives begin to investigate this killer, you know, who's
Speaker 1: taunting them. How would you describe the themes of this film.
Speaker 3: Well the themes that the themes are huge.
Speaker 2: Actually the themes really are around sort of shame, secrecy,
Speaker 2: a sense of self because, like you said, the rag
Speaker 2: Doll Killer, as he or she comes to be known,
Speaker 2: is taunting one of our main protagonists. So our main
Speaker 2: protagonists are US three police detectives, so and I can
Speaker 2: never remember what their titles are ' I know them
Speaker 2: as Rose, Baxter, and Edmunds. And Rose investigated a crime
Speaker 2: called the cremation Killer, and he knew who the perpetrator was,
Speaker 2: but he couldn't get them, and so he cut corn
Speaker 2: doing his investigation, and as a result, the cremation Killer
Speaker 2: was released and went on to kill again. But when
Speaker 2: the cremation Killer was acquitted in court, Rose jumped over
Speaker 2: the barriers and sort of beat him very very badly.
Speaker 2: So Rose ended up in a psychiatric unit, and so
Speaker 2: various deals were made. That means the rag Doll Killer
Speaker 2: is essentially taunting Rose. And so the whole thing becomes about,
Speaker 2: you know, what is justice? At what point can you
Speaker 2: be honest with yourself? At what point can you be
Speaker 2: honest with your colleagues? At what point can you be
Speaker 2: honest with those people close to you about both what
Speaker 2: you have done but also your love for them and
Speaker 2: how much you care for them. So I think essentially
Speaker 2: it's the sort of relationship drama wrapped up in a
Speaker 2: macabre killer story, which.
Speaker 1: I think sounds amazing. So I don't know what that
Speaker 1: says about me. I don't know what it says about you.
Speaker 2: You know, it's essentially about six six people who've been
Speaker 2: killed in that. Yeah, that's you know, it's not great,
Speaker 2: is it? But it is I hope it's like massively entertaining.
Speaker 2: And we are quite you know, there is a lot
Speaker 2: of dark wit in there, but we are very you know,
Speaker 2: we're very serious about human relationships and you know, in
Speaker 2: secrecy and honesty and you know, and I hope that
Speaker 2: that sort of emotional charge comes through in the show.
Speaker 1: It's interesting in that regard. You know, based on the book,
Speaker 1: which is authored by Daniel Cole, How did this project
Speaker 1: come across your desk?
Speaker 2: Well, we SID is actually a really small company. There's
Speaker 2: about ten of us, and we were looking for a
Speaker 2: long time for a crime story because crime police genre,
Speaker 2: you know, it is universally popular, and it felt very,
Speaker 2: very odd that we didn't have one on our plate.
Speaker 2: So Sam Simon's who's one of our script executives and
Speaker 2: a real crime novel afficionado, trolled loads and those you know,
Speaker 2: back catalogs and new books that were coming out, and
Speaker 2: so actually then Sam read Ragged Book and just fell
Speaker 2: found it incredibly entertaining and loved the notion of a
Speaker 2: sort of ticking clock and the really inventive ways of
Speaker 2: the kills and you know, and the central relationship between
Speaker 2: Rose and Baxter. And but we knew that we had
Speaker 2: to pair that up with a writer who had had
Speaker 2: a very sort of distinctive voice, and Freddie coming from
Speaker 2: the world of sort of comedy. We'd met him actually
Speaker 2: on another project and then he wrote an episode of
Speaker 2: Killing Eve and we realized that he's, like Freddie, big brain,
Speaker 2: and that you needed a big brain to get around,
Speaker 2: you know, the complications of the plot, but also to
Speaker 2: really sort of tether it to you know, very real
Speaker 2: feeling human emotions. So that's really how it came about.
Speaker 2: So we got books, Sam found the book, we w
Speaker 2: optioned the book, We put Freddie together with it, and
Speaker 2: we developed the scripts with him, and then we set
Speaker 2: it up with UK TV and AMC well this.
Speaker 1: Stuff is, you know what people want to watch right now.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of there's this huge surge of interest
Speaker 1: in true crime. You know, why do you think the
Speaker 1: true crime has become so popular in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: I think true crime has always been really popular, And
Speaker 2: I think what happens is, you know, a few true
Speaker 2: crime things come out broadcast and see how popular they are.
Speaker 2: They then go for more true crime, So it just
Speaker 2: becomes a sort of self you know, everything goes in waves,
Speaker 2: and you know, I've been around long enough to sort
Speaker 2: of see true stories be incredibly popular, and then they
Speaker 2: weighe and you know, fantasy comes back and a sense
Speaker 2: of escapism becomes the popular theme, and then real life
Speaker 2: comes back again. I think that there is a sense
Speaker 2: that I think that people want to explore stories that
Speaker 2: they've heard on the news, and they want to get
Speaker 2: more background to it, and I think, sort of deep
Speaker 2: down it's probably about trying to understand what's behind these
Speaker 2: cases as a way of sort of controlling them and
Speaker 2: making them feel less scary, I think. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, there is you know, what I don't like
Speaker 2: to think is that there is a sense that there
Speaker 2: is entertainment in true crimes, which is another reason why
Speaker 2: we wanted to work on the rag Doll, because it's
Speaker 2: not true. It's not a true crime. It actually it's
Speaker 2: very heightened. It leans into the it leans into the
Speaker 2: long history of sort of grang guenole. And it's not
Speaker 2: about sort of a viscerated dead women, which I think
Speaker 2: so many pieces are.
Speaker 3: It's not about lost children.
Speaker 2: It's really a sort of a you know, it's a
Speaker 2: big I hope it's a sort of big, entertaining, sort
Speaker 2: of rollicking drama.
Speaker 1: With COVID as well. I think, you know, we like
Speaker 1: to be included in things in different ways. And I
Speaker 1: think that sometimes a crime or a mystery or something
Speaker 1: to be solved in twenty twenty one when they're done well,
Speaker 1: makes us feel included, like we get to solve it
Speaker 1: as well, you know what I mean. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that that is an inclusion.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that people like to put the jigsaw together
Speaker 2: of it. And I think that we naturally, you know,
Speaker 2: we're pattern formers, and so anything that's sort of that
Speaker 2: gives you that sense of satisfaction of putting the puzzle together,
Speaker 2: It is a really good thing, particularly when you know
Speaker 2: the world is, you know, so hard to fathom, you know,
Speaker 2: if there's a bit of security managing to put the
Speaker 2: puzzle together and then coming out with the answer.
Speaker 1: I know I was like that with Mayor of Eastown.
Speaker 1: And it also gave me a community to be a
Speaker 1: part of as well, because I was texting my friends
Speaker 1: and my mom and my brother and my sister, and
Speaker 1: I think it's this person. And I think that that
Speaker 1: sometimes can be really powerful with Telly because now we're
Speaker 1: telling these stories over a period of time. It's not
Speaker 1: a film. You know, you're like, oh, I watched that,
Speaker 1: and then I can now interact with people. I think
Speaker 1: that has become really amazing with the long form of television.
Speaker 2: Absolutely and being part of a gang, and you know,
Speaker 2: when we've been so isolated to have that connectivity with
Speaker 2: other people who are having a shared experience. So you know,
Speaker 2: it was actually Shit's Creek got me through lockdown, and
Speaker 2: that was you know, and a few of us were
Speaker 2: all watching it at the same point, and you know,
Speaker 2: somebody got to the end of it before we did
Speaker 2: and said, oh my god, I can't you know, I've
Speaker 2: just been sobbing, And you know, there was a real
Speaker 2: sense of connectivity. And another show that we make all
Speaker 2: the Daryl's, but you know, Became had a resurgence during lockdown,
Speaker 2: and I think that was a similar thing. There was
Speaker 2: a sense of sort of comfort to it, but people
Speaker 2: having a shared experience.
Speaker 1: What about your immediate relationship with this particular source material?
Speaker 1: As you know, it is pretty grim, but it also
Speaker 1: has that real sense of humor. I mean, is that
Speaker 1: something that you kind of connected to personally? Is that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And you're a little bit grim with a sense of humor,
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, very much. So. I am quite grim,
Speaker 3: and I hope really dark things. You know.
Speaker 2: I think that life is, you know, in its darkest moments,
Speaker 2: can also be very sort of blackly comic. And I
Speaker 2: don't know whether it's the same restrict I think it
Speaker 2: probably is.
Speaker 3: But I was brought up.
Speaker 1: With my grandparents that only watched the ABC, which is
Speaker 1: like the BBC for you. I don't know if you've.
Speaker 3: Been okay, well there you go.
Speaker 1: My influences and I talked about this just the other
Speaker 1: day with my brother about my influences with Telly, and
Speaker 1: I will grow up with English humor, so I'm drawn
Speaker 1: to black comedies. And I remember taking a really good
Speaker 1: friend of mine to see a black comedy and when
Speaker 1: I was like seventeen or eighteen, and they looked at
Speaker 1: me like I was mad, and I was like, that's
Speaker 1: the best movie ever, you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Did you watch them? Were what were your favorites?
Speaker 1: Well, that particular film that I took my friend to
Speaker 1: was in nineteen ninety seven to see Nicole Kidmans To
Speaker 1: Die For And that film is brilliant, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: she just seemed to get that humor. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: that a lot of people from Australia, because of our
Speaker 1: relationship with England, we lean into that humor more than
Speaker 1: the Americans.
Speaker 2: You know, exactly in the irreverence of it, and some
Speaker 2: of it I think is also about control. It's like
Speaker 2: if I can laugh at it, it's not going to
Speaker 2: do me down. You know, There's there's a degree of
Speaker 2: that about it.
Speaker 1: I just you know, what I think is really bizarre
Speaker 1: is the relationship and the similarities in a way of
Speaker 1: fear and being thrilled to actually being entertained and laughing.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is a confluence for me
Speaker 1: with the content that I enjoy it.
Speaker 3: I think you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think it does have a It
Speaker 2: has a sort of physical effect on you, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I enjoy being scared as much as I
Speaker 1: enjoy laughing, and I think that, Yeah, even Faulty Towers
Speaker 1: in Life of Brian or a lot of those shows.
Speaker 1: I loved all of that sort of humor. But I
Speaker 1: enjoy the yeah, the laughing as much as I like
Speaker 1: being scared.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, and actually I was talking to somebody yesterday about
Speaker 2: shows on the UK. It was probably it's quite a
Speaker 2: long time they called Cracker that Jimmy mcgovernn created, which
Speaker 2: was about a psychologist who worked with the police, and
Speaker 2: it was very very dark, but also at the same
Speaker 2: time it had amazing characters and brilliant dark humor in
Speaker 2: that too, and that's sort of the marriage of the two.
Speaker 2: It actually made it feel a little bit more real
Speaker 2: because life, you know, people do laugh at the groomer's
Speaker 2: moments that you know, life isn't just all sometimes I
Speaker 2: think it's particularly some crime drumas just take themselves a
Speaker 2: little bit too seriously, and you know, it's great to
Speaker 2: have sort of dark wit come through. For me, that's
Speaker 2: my that's my personal taste.
Speaker 1: I know, if they take themselves too seriously, they kind
Speaker 1: of have more of a capacity to fall down, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're taking it to that line and you're trying
Speaker 1: to be too serious. I mean, that's sometimes where you
Speaker 1: know people are laughing at it for the wrong reasons,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yes, Well, I hope that isn't the case with this.
Speaker 1: I wondered whether you personally had like an Aha moment
Speaker 1: with this material and as you were planning it that
Speaker 1: this was going to work.
Speaker 2: Well, really, I really do hope so, And I think
Speaker 2: it's I just love Freddy's scripts. They're just so clever,
Speaker 2: and it's you know, there are various stages when you're
Speaker 2: sort of testing the materials. So of course you're testing
Speaker 2: the material when you read it yourself, when you have
Speaker 2: other people within your team read it, when you send
Speaker 2: it out for broadcasters to pick it up. And then
Speaker 2: the biggest thing comes for us. There's another show that
Speaker 2: we're developing at the moment. Is when you start to
Speaker 2: do auditions and when you start to send scripts out
Speaker 2: to actors, and it's when their agents respond to the
Speaker 2: material and the actors respond to the material and they
Speaker 2: really want to play those parts, and they think that
Speaker 2: it feels incredibly fresh because of course agents are reading
Speaker 2: so many scripts that people are trying to cast, so
Speaker 2: that becomes for us, it becomes the sort of first
Speaker 2: sense of oh, yeah, that okay, that's great. Everybody else
Speaker 2: thinks these scripts are good, and beyond that, you just
Speaker 2: try to make it to the best of your ability
Speaker 2: and be as inventive and as fresh and as truthful
Speaker 2: as you can be, and then you've just got to
Speaker 2: hope for the best. You never know, no idea. We
Speaker 2: had no idea what the Killing Eve was going to
Speaker 2: work on. Absolutely zilch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is really interesting and it's a really clever
Speaker 1: point that you've just brought up with, you know, bringing
Speaker 1: Sandra Oh into that particular show having the sort of
Speaker 1: TV success that she'd had and she sort of stepped
Speaker 1: into that so different to what we've seen on things
Speaker 1: like Ray's Anatime. But then also Lucy Hale drawn to
Speaker 1: this new project. You know, people know her from Pretty
Speaker 1: Little Lies. Yeah, that's right, isn't it. Am I just
Speaker 1: saying I'm saying that right, say it?
Speaker 3: Yes, And you know that's.
Speaker 1: Another I mean, she's a superstar I've actually been following
Speaker 1: Lucy's career, you know, and I think that she's brilliant.
Speaker 1: I mean, was she the first person that you were
Speaker 1: thinking of with this role or how did that come about?
Speaker 2: She was definitely on a very short list of people
Speaker 2: that we were considering for it. You know, Lucy was
Speaker 2: completely brilliant because she read the script really enjoyed them.
Speaker 2: We were really thrilled that she'd responded to the material
Speaker 2: because it is a little bit of a difference to her,
Speaker 2: a difference to what she's she's done previously, although she's
Speaker 2: done movies which are you know, dark and scary. And
Speaker 2: then she met with Freddie Cyborn, myself, Lee Morris, who's
Speaker 2: our other executive and my work partner, and with Tn McDonald,
Speaker 2: the director, and we had a really fantastic chat, and
Speaker 2: then she actually did some more reading with Toby and
Speaker 2: so it was just a very sort of organic, natural
Speaker 2: process so that she got to know us. She is
Speaker 2: and I'm not just saying this because everybody goes, oh
Speaker 2: my god, they're amazing, they're the lovelies, but she really
Speaker 2: is genuinely brilliant. She's brilliant in the show. She's the
Speaker 2: most professional person, and she's completely gorgeous. So we love
Speaker 2: her as our to Lisa and Henry. But you know,
Speaker 2: Lucy was coming in to our world, bless her, and
Speaker 2: she just she fitted in so brilliantly. You've got no idea. Also,
Speaker 2: you've got no idea when you you bring an actor
Speaker 2: who's worked, you know, in a slightly different sort of
Speaker 2: aesthetic and even in a different country, whether there is
Speaker 2: a gelling even of the rhythm of language, you know,
Speaker 2: but she fitted in so brilliantly. We think she's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Did you get a chance because the Pretty Little Liars
Speaker 1: fan fans out there listening to this right now will
Speaker 1: be like, it would be remissive you ben not to
Speaker 1: ask the question, did you invite her over to watch
Speaker 1: like a marathon of Pretty Little Lies?
Speaker 3: That no.
Speaker 2: Also, we were filming during the during lockdown, so nobody
Speaker 2: could socialize with anybody. It was really sad. So that
Speaker 2: sadly no, Maybe we'll save that for another day.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, with getting back into
Speaker 1: the humor. You know, humour can be quite difficult these
Speaker 1: days after cancel culture has you know, scared people into
Speaker 1: what easily can be misconstrued as you know, inappropriate humor.
Speaker 1: Were you worried about that in making this show?
Speaker 3: Not until you mentioned it?
Speaker 2: Then?
Speaker 1: Thanks Ben, You're like, I'm never talking to these people
Speaker 1: from Australia who put the fear of God in me.
Speaker 3: Until you said something. I hope we're okay. It's very difficult.
Speaker 2: You know, you can be you can you know you
Speaker 2: could spend your whole life going oh my god, it's
Speaker 2: somebody going to be offended by this and again, but
Speaker 2: you've got no idea what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I really hope there is nothing at all that anybody
Speaker 2: could be offended by.
Speaker 1: Well, how supportive we're AMC Studios and BBC and getting
Speaker 1: this show distributed internationally. I mean, the interesting thing about
Speaker 1: this question, it's kind of so much scripted content these
Speaker 1: days is being digested all around the world. Was this
Speaker 1: show very specifically being made not just for an English
Speaker 1: audience but for a global community?
Speaker 2: Again, I think you've just got to concentrate on doing
Speaker 2: a great job at the center of it and not
Speaker 2: think about, you know, well, will this appeal to a
Speaker 2: wide audience, Because I think if you if you concentrate
Speaker 2: on just just make it really good. And then hopefully
Speaker 2: everybody else will really will really connect with it too.
Speaker 2: And I think that comes down to, you know, actually
Speaker 2: the relationships at the center of something, and you've just
Speaker 2: got to hope that sort of crime, you know, crime,
Speaker 2: people enjoy crime. Coming back to what you're saying about,
Speaker 2: you know, being puzzle solvers and you know, just being
Speaker 2: engaged by the sort of the macabre element of stuff.
Speaker 2: But BBC BBC Studios who are selling this for us,
Speaker 2: which are just fantastic, and they went out and just
Speaker 2: talked to all of their partners and so I think
Speaker 2: if you try to make something that appeal to everybody,
Speaker 2: you'll you'll fail. Just look after the core job, just
Speaker 2: make it as good as you can.
Speaker 1: I think, well, before we finish up, I really need
Speaker 1: to ask you these last two questions, but what can
Speaker 1: we expect from Killing Eve series four? Because and what
Speaker 1: do I need to give you to bribe you into
Speaker 1: telling me something? I'm also give me something. Sally.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's interesting because I've got through my ePK interviews
Speaker 2: tomorrow about it.
Speaker 3: This is like a good a good rehearsal for it.
Speaker 2: It's it's a much much more personal series, particularly as
Speaker 2: you know we're going this is the final season, and
Speaker 2: I'd say it's intensely it's an intensely personal season and
Speaker 2: very funny and dark.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's interesting because a lot of people
Speaker 1: have been asking questions about this, and you know, with
Speaker 1: Killing Eve being open to a possible feature film, which
Speaker 1: I've heard a few people mentioned in interviews when doing
Speaker 1: publicity even in previous seasons. I was curious to know, like,
Speaker 1: you know, with these two, rag Doll and Killing Eve,
Speaker 1: which one lets itself more to needing a continuum, Like
Speaker 1: you know, which one for you personally, would you like
Speaker 1: to continue to delve into maybe exploring in a feature
Speaker 1: film capacity.
Speaker 2: You know, I think that they you know, I think
Speaker 2: that they're they're they're both really interesting to do that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think Ragdob most of our influences are
Speaker 2: sort of movie influences rather than television influences. So Freddie
Speaker 2: is very influenced by sort of Korean cinema, by Bong
Speaker 2: June Ho, and you know, the a lot of those
Speaker 2: sort of crime pieces and also Silence of the Lambs.
Speaker 2: You know, they film very they feel very very cinematic,
Speaker 2: but at the same time, you know, you've got you've
Speaker 2: essentially got with with Killing Eve. You've got the central
Speaker 2: conceit of that is is very cinematic and very and
Speaker 2: lends itself very much to a sort of shorter form
Speaker 2: contained story.
Speaker 3: So either really you know.
Speaker 2: I don't again, it's just you know, well, what does
Speaker 2: it come naturally? You don't want to sort of own
Speaker 2: for over Egg anything, But it'd be amazing to do
Speaker 2: either of them on a huge screen with a lot
Speaker 2: more money and just telling a story over ninety minutes
Speaker 2: instead of having to come up with eight hours of story.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, it's kind of kind of the reverse. Everyone
Speaker 1: these days is talking about, oh, I want to now
Speaker 1: tell it on a long form, and then we'll be like,
Speaker 1: oh god, how did we do this? Like how do
Speaker 1: we put it all back in tonight?
Speaker 2: It's really hard, and I, you know, I look look
Speaker 2: at people who you know, spend you know, four years
Speaker 2: developing a ninety minute feature film script.
Speaker 3: Do you think, my god, we've had a year to
Speaker 3: do eight hours. It's really really hard.
Speaker 1: So funny that you mentioned Science of the Lambs, because
Speaker 1: when I watched the trailer for it, immediately the cinematography
Speaker 1: and the mood and the taste of the whole trailer.
Speaker 1: It took me back to I mean I was a
Speaker 1: little bit young, too young for Science of the Lambs.
Speaker 1: I mean I am forty, so I was definitely nineteen
Speaker 1: when Hannibal came out. But I just I remember thinking
Speaker 1: when I saw the trailer to rag Doll, it just
Speaker 1: it's sort of encapsulated that mood. So I guess it's
Speaker 1: important to talk about whether or not Science and Lambs
Speaker 1: was a direct influence.
Speaker 2: I think that Science and Lambs were so brilliant because
Speaker 2: it was very, very character character driven. There was dark
Speaker 2: humor in it. It felt true for that relationship between
Speaker 2: hand of Elector and Starling work, it is extraordinary. And
Speaker 2: then you've got another you know, you've got the perpetrator
Speaker 2: of the crime. That is the sort of sort of
Speaker 2: if you like the a plot, the thing that she's
Speaker 2: trying to stop is you know sits very much in
Speaker 2: the background, but you know there was a there's a
Speaker 2: moment that Freddy's talked about where actually she gets into
Speaker 2: a lift and she's because because she's so small, you
Speaker 2: have all of these great big cops around her in
Speaker 2: the lift, you just get there is a visual humor
Speaker 2: in there that is sort of subtle, and all of
Speaker 2: it is you know, so I think.
Speaker 3: That there is there is it's a direct.
Speaker 2: Influence just in terms of tonally what it suggests, not
Speaker 2: really in terms of anything else.
Speaker 1: I'd say, well, my last question before you go is
Speaker 1: a question I ask all my guess and what is
Speaker 1: an amazing story from behind the scenes of making rag
Speaker 1: Doll the wir as an audience would appreciate that we
Speaker 1: might not have seen was it?
Speaker 2: Well, it's probably the creation of the rag doll itself.
Speaker 2: And also we did which is something you know, look
Speaker 2: at that. None of the actors were really exposed to
Speaker 2: the full horror of it until they shot that scene.
Speaker 3: And everybody has a different reaction. You know, some some
Speaker 3: of the reactions.
Speaker 2: Are, oh my god, that's extraordinary, and but Lisa had
Speaker 2: a very very visceral reaction to it.
Speaker 3: You know, we went in and went that, you know,
Speaker 3: how the hell did they make that?
Speaker 2: So that that was the biggest thing is just seeing
Speaker 2: everybody's shock and also seeing all the crews reaction to it.
Speaker 2: But the main thing was sort of shooting it during
Speaker 2: during COVID. It's that is a really Yeah, it'd be
Speaker 2: interesting to know when you talk to other people. It
Speaker 2: is hard, and not just because you're you know, because
Speaker 2: you're trying to keep everybody safe, but because essentially you're
Speaker 2: you're only reacting.
Speaker 3: To people's eyes all the time.
Speaker 2: You're only reacting to people's eyes, and our industry is
Speaker 2: so touchy feely. You can't hug people. You can't you know,
Speaker 2: you can't be as intimate as you normally are. You
Speaker 2: can't you know, you can't see when people are smiley.
Speaker 2: You have to learn to smile your eyes. It's really
Speaker 2: that's that's that's the sort of quite hard for about it.
Speaker 2: But but to have Topa McDonald who is our lead director,
Speaker 2: the Lisa Henry, Lucy Freddie Cyborne on set, there's incredible
Speaker 2: and Lizzie Rosbridge are producing this incredible sort of core
Speaker 2: of people who are so enthusiastic about making this good.
Speaker 2: I'd say that that is the that was the biggie
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say this selling I've been in your
Speaker 1: audience for a very long time. You're a brilliant content maker,
Speaker 1: and I'll continue to be in your audience time for
Speaker 1: a very long time. Thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: able to take the time to be able to have
Speaker 1: this chat about Ragdoll, and I hope that other people
Speaker 1: that are listening to this is just as excited to
Speaker 1: see it as I am.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope you enjoy You enjoy it, then, thank you,
Speaker 2: thanks so uch, thanks
Speaker 1: For having a good time.