WEBVTT - FROM KILLING EVE TO RAGDOLL 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:01.720 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.200 TV Reload the podcast last week. Am I how would 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.000 I describe a television set, oh Man. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.640 From a headline grabbing point of view, the hack producer 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:13.720 me says one hundred percent put him in. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.400 Welcome back guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.079 and on this podcast I go behind the scenes with 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:22.720 the biggest players in television. 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.799 Yeah, great questions. The show's about the game. There's a 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.400 lot of great television out there in Australia. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.000 But I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.280 The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.560 had nothing to do with the news and casting agents they. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.000 Know from a casting point of view what they need. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.320 And editors because that's what we do as editors where 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.919 storytellers them. Not to forget some incredible executive producers who 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.959 are making some of the best TV content in Australia. 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.400 I have been on the program since the beginning and 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.680 it's kind of in my DNA. So thanks for joining 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.400 me each week and I hope the podcast continues to 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.520 give you real insight into the magic of te Today. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.759 On the podcast, I have internationally acclaimed TV producer Sally Woodgate. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.280 Sally's here to promote her latest project, Ragdoll, which will 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.840 premiere on Binge in Australia today. Ragdoll is an internationally 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.080 co produced thriller series based upon the novel of the 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.360 same name by Daniel Cole. The series follows the murder 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.920 of six people who have been dismembered and sewn together 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.480 in the shape of a grotesque body called the rag Doll. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.640 As the leading characters begin to investigate, the killer begins 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.400 to taunt them. And I've seen the first two episodes 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.200 and it's really something to see to be believed. The 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.080 series has a unique ability to make you laugh and 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.160 be terrified at the same time, and at times you 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.679 feel like you're watching Signs of the Lambs. But then 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.440 there's a comedic undertone that contrasts that whole feel, and 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.600 the series is almost classified as a comedy. Today, Sally 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.680 and I will unpack the new series with some exclusive 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.600 behind the scenes stories that will leave you reaching for 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.360 a Binge subscription. Sally has teamed up again with Freddie 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.640 Seborne and you would know their work on Killing Eve, 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.120 which became an internationally celebrated hit series which the world 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.679 fell in love with. However, let's get started with today's episode. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.600 I'd like to welcome producer Sally Wouldgate to this week's 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:18.360 TV reload. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.400 We were looking for a long time for a crime story. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.840 Legg belongs to a blackmaile. 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:30.679 Because crime police genre, you know, it is universally popularly great. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.919 I'm you an East Asian female. I think that people 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.720 like to put the jigsaw together and. 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:38.080 A Crockasian male head. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.200 I think that life is, you know, in its darkest moments, 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:44.280 can also be very sort of blackly comic. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.400 It's not the strangest thing I've ever seen top ten seven. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.840 Essentially, it's the sort of relationship drama wrapped up in 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:53.520 a macab killer story. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.160 Hi, Sally, how are you? 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.280 I'm very well? Thank you? How are you? 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.800 I'm really well? I mean, congratulations on the buzz of 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.640 rag Doll. What an exciting project to come off the 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.320 back of your work on Killing Eve, which was a 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.440 global success. How do you feel at the moment before 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.720 people have seen it. 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:12.280 Just a little bit exhausted. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.600 So we had We've got a very very tight post 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:19.080 production schedule and we're still post producing the whole show. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.120 So we're just in the moment, we're not I haven't 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.200 even started to engage with the thought that people might 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:26.040 watch it, so it is a bit scary. 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.760 How did this go, Like after working on a project 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.440 like Killing Eve, which was consumed by people all over 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.720 the world and just loved to Killing Eve open doors 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:36.200 for you. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.800 I suppose what it did is created a relationship with 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.920 AMC and Killing Eve, which is a really sort of 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.120 easy one and a really collaborative one. So they read 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.760 Rag Doll and we very quickly went into pre production 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:51.680 on it. So I think that that was the difference, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.320 is there was no sort of getting to know you, 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.760 can we trust you what you like in production, so 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.840 that was incredibly useful and AMC are brilliant partners, so 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.400 I think that's probably what made the difference. 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:04.480 Well we'll talk about them a little bit more actually, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.720 because they'll come up again. But the series follows the 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.960 murder of six people who have been dismembered and sewn 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.119 into the shape of a grotesque body, which is called 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.719 the rag Doll, which the protagonists, i'd say, and you know, 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.359 the detectives begin to investigate this killer, you know, who's 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.479 taunting them. How would you describe the themes of this film. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.200 Well the themes that the themes are huge. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.880 Actually the themes really are around sort of shame, secrecy, 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.640 a sense of self because, like you said, the rag 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.680 Doll Killer, as he or she comes to be known, 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.480 is taunting one of our main protagonists. So our main 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.320 protagonists are US three police detectives, so and I can 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.680 never remember what their titles are ' I know them 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:53.839 as Rose, Baxter, and Edmunds. And Rose investigated a crime 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.440 called the cremation Killer, and he knew who the perpetrator was, 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.920 but he couldn't get them, and so he cut corn 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.360 doing his investigation, and as a result, the cremation Killer 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.679 was released and went on to kill again. But when 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:11.200 the cremation Killer was acquitted in court, Rose jumped over 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.560 the barriers and sort of beat him very very badly. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.560 So Rose ended up in a psychiatric unit, and so 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:23.159 various deals were made. That means the rag Doll Killer 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:29.240 is essentially taunting Rose. And so the whole thing becomes about, 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.680 you know, what is justice? At what point can you 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:34.560 be honest with yourself? At what point can you be 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.000 honest with your colleagues? At what point can you be 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.760 honest with those people close to you about both what 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.960 you have done but also your love for them and 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.080 how much you care for them. So I think essentially 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.080 it's the sort of relationship drama wrapped up in a 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.680 macabre killer story, which. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.240 I think sounds amazing. So I don't know what that 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:57.000 says about me. I don't know what it says about you. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.400 You know, it's essentially about six six people who've been 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.640 killed in that. Yeah, that's you know, it's not great, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.360 is it? But it is I hope it's like massively entertaining. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.200 And we are quite you know, there is a lot 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.320 of dark wit in there, but we are very you know, 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.680 we're very serious about human relationships and you know, in 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.320 secrecy and honesty and you know, and I hope that 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.920 that sort of emotional charge comes through in the show. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.799 It's interesting in that regard. You know, based on the book, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.960 which is authored by Daniel Cole, How did this project 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:27.120 come across your desk? 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.200 Well, we SID is actually a really small company. There's 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.360 about ten of us, and we were looking for a 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.400 long time for a crime story because crime police genre, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.960 you know, it is universally popular, and it felt very, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.000 very odd that we didn't have one on our plate. 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.360 So Sam Simon's who's one of our script executives and 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:52.640 a real crime novel afficionado, trolled loads and those you know, 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.400 back catalogs and new books that were coming out, and 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.960 so actually then Sam read Ragged Book and just fell 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.240 found it incredibly entertaining and loved the notion of a 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.160 sort of ticking clock and the really inventive ways of 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.880 the kills and you know, and the central relationship between 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.600 Rose and Baxter. And but we knew that we had 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.160 to pair that up with a writer who had had 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.560 a very sort of distinctive voice, and Freddie coming from 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.960 the world of sort of comedy. We'd met him actually 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:25.920 on another project and then he wrote an episode of 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.880 Killing Eve and we realized that he's, like Freddie, big brain, 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.280 and that you needed a big brain to get around, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.120 you know, the complications of the plot, but also to 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.360 really sort of tether it to you know, very real 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.640 feeling human emotions. So that's really how it came about. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.160 So we got books, Sam found the book, we w 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.400 optioned the book, We put Freddie together with it, and 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.800 we developed the scripts with him, and then we set 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.360 it up with UK TV and AMC well this. 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.960 Stuff is, you know what people want to watch right now. 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.720 It's it's kind of there's this huge surge of interest 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.000 in true crime. You know, why do you think the 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.160 true crime has become so popular in twenty twenty one. 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.680 I think true crime has always been really popular, And 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.400 I think what happens is, you know, a few true 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.000 crime things come out broadcast and see how popular they are. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.560 They then go for more true crime, So it just 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.360 becomes a sort of self you know, everything goes in waves, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.360 and you know, I've been around long enough to sort 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.720 of see true stories be incredibly popular, and then they 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.040 weighe and you know, fantasy comes back and a sense 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.959 of escapism becomes the popular theme, and then real life 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.920 comes back again. I think that there is a sense 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.920 that I think that people want to explore stories that 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.320 they've heard on the news, and they want to get 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.280 more background to it, and I think, sort of deep 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:50.000 down it's probably about trying to understand what's behind these 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.320 cases as a way of sort of controlling them and 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.120 making them feel less scary, I think. But at the 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.360 same time, there is you know, what I don't like 0:08:58.400 --> 0:08:59.880 to think is that there is a sense that there 0:08:59.920 --> 0:09:03.000 is entertainment in true crimes, which is another reason why 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.360 we wanted to work on the rag Doll, because it's 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.000 not true. It's not a true crime. It actually it's 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.120 very heightened. It leans into the it leans into the 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.600 long history of sort of grang guenole. And it's not 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.520 about sort of a viscerated dead women, which I think 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:19.679 so many pieces are. 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:21.680 It's not about lost children. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:23.800 It's really a sort of a you know, it's a 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.640 big I hope it's a sort of big, entertaining, sort 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.880 of rollicking drama. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.040 With COVID as well. I think, you know, we like 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.360 to be included in things in different ways. And I 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.920 think that sometimes a crime or a mystery or something 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:39.080 to be solved in twenty twenty one when they're done well, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.280 makes us feel included, like we get to solve it 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:42.960 as well, you know what I mean. Yeah, I think 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:44.400 that that is an inclusion. 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:44.880 Yeah. 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.199 I think that people like to put the jigsaw together 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.560 of it. And I think that we naturally, you know, 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.679 we're pattern formers, and so anything that's sort of that 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.280 gives you that sense of satisfaction of putting the puzzle together, 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.320 It is a really good thing, particularly when you know 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.360 the world is, you know, so hard to fathom, you know, 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.559 if there's a bit of security managing to put the 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.559 puzzle together and then coming out with the answer. 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:11.840 I know I was like that with Mayor of Eastown. 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.800 And it also gave me a community to be a 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.720 part of as well, because I was texting my friends 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.120 and my mom and my brother and my sister, and 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:22.600 I think it's this person. And I think that that 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.360 sometimes can be really powerful with Telly because now we're 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.960 telling these stories over a period of time. It's not 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.160 a film. You know, you're like, oh, I watched that, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.440 and then I can now interact with people. I think 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.800 that has become really amazing with the long form of television. 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.720 Absolutely and being part of a gang, and you know, 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.520 when we've been so isolated to have that connectivity with 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.240 other people who are having a shared experience. So you know, 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.760 it was actually Shit's Creek got me through lockdown, and 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.480 that was you know, and a few of us were 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.800 all watching it at the same point, and you know, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.760 somebody got to the end of it before we did 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.800 and said, oh my god, I can't you know, I've 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:05.160 just been sobbing, And you know, there was a real 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.720 sense of connectivity. And another show that we make all 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.199 the Daryl's, but you know, Became had a resurgence during lockdown, 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:13.640 and I think that was a similar thing. There was 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.880 a sense of sort of comfort to it, but people 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.240 having a shared experience. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.160 What about your immediate relationship with this particular source material? 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.680 As you know, it is pretty grim, but it also 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.200 has that real sense of humor. I mean, is that 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.040 something that you kind of connected to personally? Is that? Yeah? 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:31.800 And you're a little bit grim with a sense of humor, 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:32.480 is what I'm saying. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.040 Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, very much. So. I am quite grim, 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.800 and I hope really dark things. You know. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.080 I think that life is, you know, in its darkest moments, 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.760 can also be very sort of blackly comic. And I 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.160 don't know whether it's the same restrict I think it 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:48.960 probably is. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:50.120 But I was brought up. 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.400 With my grandparents that only watched the ABC, which is 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.200 like the BBC for you. I don't know if you've. 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:55.600 Been okay, well there you go. 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.360 My influences and I talked about this just the other 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.760 day with my brother about my influences with Telly, and 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.439 I will grow up with English humor, so I'm drawn 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.120 to black comedies. And I remember taking a really good 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.800 friend of mine to see a black comedy and when 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.880 I was like seventeen or eighteen, and they looked at 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.800 me like I was mad, and I was like, that's 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.120 the best movie ever, you know, yeah, yeah. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.599 Did you watch them? Were what were your favorites? 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.440 Well, that particular film that I took my friend to 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.760 was in nineteen ninety seven to see Nicole Kidmans To 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.480 Die For And that film is brilliant, Like, you know, 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.360 she just seemed to get that humor. Yeah. I think 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.480 that a lot of people from Australia, because of our 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:39.760 relationship with England, we lean into that humor more than 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.160 the Americans. 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:45.040 You know, exactly in the irreverence of it, and some 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.600 of it I think is also about control. It's like 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.680 if I can laugh at it, it's not going to 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.440 do me down. You know, There's there's a degree of 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:53.400 that about it. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.120 I just you know, what I think is really bizarre 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.720 is the relationship and the similarities in a way of 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.640 fear and being thrilled to actually being entertained and laughing. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.640 And I think that that is a confluence for me 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.199 with the content that I enjoy it. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:09.880 I think you're right. 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.120 Yeah, you know, I think it does have a It 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.320 has a sort of physical effect on you, doesn't it. 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:16.600 Yeah. Well, I enjoy being scared as much as I 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.400 enjoy laughing, and I think that, Yeah, even Faulty Towers 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.920 in Life of Brian or a lot of those shows. 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.120 I loved all of that sort of humor. But I 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.400 enjoy the yeah, the laughing as much as I like 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:28.040 being scared. 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:28.439 Yeah. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.720 Actually, and actually I was talking to somebody yesterday about 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.240 shows on the UK. It was probably it's quite a 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.319 long time they called Cracker that Jimmy mcgovernn created, which 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.360 was about a psychologist who worked with the police, and 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.200 it was very very dark, but also at the same 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.240 time it had amazing characters and brilliant dark humor in 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.800 that too, and that's sort of the marriage of the two. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.520 It actually made it feel a little bit more real 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.880 because life, you know, people do laugh at the groomer's 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.920 moments that you know, life isn't just all sometimes I 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.240 think it's particularly some crime drumas just take themselves a 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.520 little bit too seriously, and you know, it's great to 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.400 have sort of dark wit come through. For me, that's 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:08.800 my that's my personal taste. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.240 I know, if they take themselves too seriously, they kind 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.520 of have more of a capacity to fall down, you know, 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.400 if you're taking it to that line and you're trying 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.960 to be too serious. I mean, that's sometimes where you 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.160 know people are laughing at it for the wrong reasons, 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:23.880 do you know what I mean? 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.400 Yes, Well, I hope that isn't the case with this. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.080 I wondered whether you personally had like an Aha moment 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.480 with this material and as you were planning it that 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:36.480 this was going to work. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.080 Well, really, I really do hope so, And I think 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.440 it's I just love Freddy's scripts. They're just so clever, 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.840 and it's you know, there are various stages when you're 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.880 sort of testing the materials. So of course you're testing 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.040 the material when you read it yourself, when you have 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.680 other people within your team read it, when you send 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.520 it out for broadcasters to pick it up. And then 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.120 the biggest thing comes for us. There's another show that 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.600 we're developing at the moment. Is when you start to 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.480 do auditions and when you start to send scripts out 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.800 to actors, and it's when their agents respond to the 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.600 material and the actors respond to the material and they 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.160 really want to play those parts, and they think that 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:19.080 it feels incredibly fresh because of course agents are reading 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.920 so many scripts that people are trying to cast, so 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.360 that becomes for us, it becomes the sort of first 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.760 sense of oh, yeah, that okay, that's great. Everybody else 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.520 thinks these scripts are good, and beyond that, you just 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.120 try to make it to the best of your ability 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.120 and be as inventive and as fresh and as truthful 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:38.480 as you can be, and then you've just got to 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.720 hope for the best. You never know, no idea. We 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.280 had no idea what the Killing Eve was going to 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:43.920 work on. Absolutely zilch. 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.520 Yeah, that is really interesting and it's a really clever 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.240 point that you've just brought up with, you know, bringing 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.720 Sandra Oh into that particular show having the sort of 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.920 TV success that she'd had and she sort of stepped 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.160 into that so different to what we've seen on things 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.520 like Ray's Anatime. But then also Lucy Hale drawn to 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.920 this new project. You know, people know her from Pretty 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.120 Little Lies. Yeah, that's right, isn't it. Am I just 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.240 saying I'm saying that right, say it? 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:09.680 Yes, And you know that's. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.120 Another I mean, she's a superstar I've actually been following 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.520 Lucy's career, you know, and I think that she's brilliant. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.880 I mean, was she the first person that you were 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.200 thinking of with this role or how did that come about? 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.560 She was definitely on a very short list of people 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.200 that we were considering for it. You know, Lucy was 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.200 completely brilliant because she read the script really enjoyed them. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.760 We were really thrilled that she'd responded to the material 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.080 because it is a little bit of a difference to her, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.920 a difference to what she's she's done previously, although she's 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.120 done movies which are you know, dark and scary. And 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:45.400 then she met with Freddie Cyborn, myself, Lee Morris, who's 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:50.400 our other executive and my work partner, and with Tn McDonald, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.040 the director, and we had a really fantastic chat, and 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.360 then she actually did some more reading with Toby and 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.480 so it was just a very sort of organic, natural 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.400 process so that she got to know us. She is 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:03.920 and I'm not just saying this because everybody goes, oh 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.440 my god, they're amazing, they're the lovelies, but she really 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.159 is genuinely brilliant. She's brilliant in the show. She's the 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:15.400 most professional person, and she's completely gorgeous. So we love 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.080 her as our to Lisa and Henry. But you know, 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.520 Lucy was coming in to our world, bless her, and 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.280 she just she fitted in so brilliantly. You've got no idea. Also, 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.840 you've got no idea when you you bring an actor 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.119 who's worked, you know, in a slightly different sort of 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.720 aesthetic and even in a different country, whether there is 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.560 a gelling even of the rhythm of language, you know, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.320 but she fitted in so brilliantly. We think she's fantastic. 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.200 Did you get a chance because the Pretty Little Liars 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.200 fan fans out there listening to this right now will 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.159 be like, it would be remissive you ben not to 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.760 ask the question, did you invite her over to watch 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.080 like a marathon of Pretty Little Lies? 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:55.879 That no. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.840 Also, we were filming during the during lockdown, so nobody 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.760 could socialize with anybody. It was really sad. So that 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.160 sadly no, Maybe we'll save that for another day. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.520 I was just going to say, with getting back into 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.000 the humor. You know, humour can be quite difficult these 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.760 days after cancel culture has you know, scared people into 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.879 what easily can be misconstrued as you know, inappropriate humor. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.600 Were you worried about that in making this show? 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.199 Not until you mentioned it? 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:27.480 Then? 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.600 Thanks Ben, You're like, I'm never talking to these people 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.160 from Australia who put the fear of God in me. 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.400 Until you said something. I hope we're okay. It's very difficult. 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.359 You know, you can be you can you know you 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.400 could spend your whole life going oh my god, it's 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.399 somebody going to be offended by this and again, but 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.440 you've got no idea what's going to happen. 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:49.879 I don't. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.520 I really hope there is nothing at all that anybody 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:54.360 could be offended by. 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.520 Well, how supportive we're AMC Studios and BBC and getting 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.639 this show distributed internationally. I mean, the interesting thing about 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.880 this question, it's kind of so much scripted content these 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.760 days is being digested all around the world. Was this 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.520 show very specifically being made not just for an English 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.240 audience but for a global community? 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.200 Again, I think you've just got to concentrate on doing 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.560 a great job at the center of it and not 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.280 think about, you know, well, will this appeal to a 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.000 wide audience, Because I think if you if you concentrate 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.240