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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the fifteenth of September.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Billy.

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Speaker 2: The New South Wales Independent Casino Commission has found the

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Speaker 2: Star is unsuitable to hold a casino.

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Speaker 1: License and the report is damn it.

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Speaker 2: The arrogance is beyond disbelief.

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Speaker 4: It's assisting organized crime and very bad people who've done

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Speaker 4: bad things.

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Speaker 2: So what exactly has the report found and what does

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Speaker 2: it mean for the casino. I'll be joined by Tom

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Speaker 2: in today's deep dive. But first, Billy, what's making headlines

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Speaker 2: this morning?

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Speaker 3: All OPAL payment machines at train stations in New South

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Speaker 3: Wales will be turned off from Wednesday next week. This

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Speaker 3: is the latest development in a tense industrial dispute taking

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Speaker 3: place between the rail union and the New South Wales

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Speaker 3: Government Union's New South Wales has said that the machines

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Speaker 3: will be turned off indefinitely and will provide free train

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Speaker 3: travel for commuters across New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: The Australian share market lost over sixty four billion dollars

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Speaker 2: in value on Wednesday morning following the release of new

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Speaker 2: data about inflation in the US economy. The inflation figures,

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Speaker 2: which were higher than expected, caused the biggest drop on

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Speaker 2: the New York Stock Exchange since June twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: A policeman has told the inquest into alleged Sydney frauds

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Speaker 3: A Melissa Caddick that her husband exhibited quote unusual behaviour's

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Speaker 3: following Kaddock's disappearance. The inquest heard that Anthony Coletti Kadok's

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Speaker 3: husband reported missing about thirty hours after she vanished, and

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Speaker 3: that he quote didn't appear to be overly concerned about

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Speaker 3: his wife's disappearance.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. A French ferry that captures over

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Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of its air pollutants is now in operation.

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Speaker 2: The owner of the ship has been testing the zero

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Speaker 2: particle ferry for three years and used existing technology from

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Speaker 2: waste incineration and power plants to create its filtration system.

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Speaker 2: A report by the New South Wales Independent Casino Commission

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Speaker 2: the NICC, has found that the Star is quote unsuitable

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Speaker 2: to hold a casino license in New South Wales. TDA

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Speaker 2: journalist Tom Crowley is here next to me to answer

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Speaker 2: all of our questions. Tom, can you start with what

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Speaker 2: the report actually is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the NICC ESARA is basically New South Wales's

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Speaker 4: casino regulator. They look into casinos all the time. There's

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Speaker 4: recently been investigations into Crown Casino that you might be

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Speaker 4: aware of, similar to investigations in Victoria and Wa as well.

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Speaker 4: The Star Casino is another one of the major New

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Speaker 4: South Wales casinos. I'm not sure if you've been there

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Speaker 4: at all, Zara.

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Speaker 2: I haven't frequented.

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Speaker 4: Not a case you frequenth. You may not be able

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Speaker 4: to because it might shut down soon. That's one of

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Speaker 4: the powers that this regulator has to basically look into

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Speaker 4: to casino behavior when there's a concern. So this was

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Speaker 4: prompted by media reports over the last couple of years

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Speaker 4: into conduct at the Star Casino.

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Speaker 2: So first came the media, then came this report.

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Speaker 4: That's right, and the report's been released this week and

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Speaker 4: basically it's conclusion. There are about a thousand pages of

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Speaker 4: stuff in this report, but the main conclusion was that

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Speaker 4: Star Casino is unfit to hold its license and so

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Speaker 4: it has the opportunity to respond now, but there's the

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Speaker 4: threat that it will be shut down as a result

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Speaker 4: of this.

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Speaker 2: So what were the key kind of revelations that came

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Speaker 2: from this report that have led to this outcome?

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Speaker 4: Can kind of split it into two. There were a

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Speaker 4: bunch of quite detailed concerns about basically proximity between Star

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Speaker 4: Casino and criminal activity and the way that the Star

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Speaker 4: Casino was being run to kind of give a bit

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Speaker 4: of a green light to criminal activity to be happening

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Speaker 4: within the casino. Then there were some things to do

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Speaker 4: with kind of problem gambling, essentially in the way that

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Speaker 4: the casino was handling problem gamblers. So maybe i'll take

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Speaker 4: those kind of one at a time, Okay, So beginning

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Speaker 4: with this kind of criminal issue, the biggest concern was

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Speaker 4: that Star Casino was operating in a way that was

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Speaker 4: allowing what the report said was vast sums of money

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Speaker 4: to be laundered through the casino.

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Speaker 2: So you're talking about money laundering money laundry. Can you

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Speaker 2: just define it quickly? I can say money laundering. The

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Speaker 2: word comes from laundry essentially, and it's basically the process

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Speaker 2: of washing dirty money. So so dirty money that really

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Speaker 2: I didn't, yes, essentially like dirty money. For example, you know,

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Speaker 2: I suppose I've got a whole lot of drug money.

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 4: Just to be clear, so is it Tom Crowley hypothetical? Hypothetical?

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Speaker 4: So I've got you one hundred million dollars of drug money,

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Speaker 4: and I want to kind of disguise the origin of

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Speaker 4: that money to clean that money. Money laundering is the

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Speaker 4: process of putting it through a quote unquote legitimate business

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Speaker 4: so that you can then say, well, I got it

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Speaker 4: from this legitimate business. So for example, for people who've

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Speaker 4: seen shows like Breaking Bad and The Wire, it's quite

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Speaker 4: common for kind of you know, drug operations and organized

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Speaker 4: criminal operations to have kind of front companies that essentially

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Speaker 4: they use to put the money through make it look

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Speaker 4: like the money's been earned by a legitimate company and

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Speaker 4: so the money's clean. In the case of casinos, it

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Speaker 4: tends to work in a way of you know, someone

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Speaker 4: with a lot of dirty money will come along they

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Speaker 4: will trade the money into the casino and get gambling chips.

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Speaker 4: They might do a little bit of gambling, but really

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Speaker 4: their purpose in going there is to then kind of

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Speaker 4: convert the chips back into money and take the money

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Speaker 4: away clean. And this is something that happens quite a

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Speaker 4: lot in casinos around the world. It was an issue

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Speaker 4: that was raised in relation to Crown as well, and

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Speaker 4: a similar thing has been raised here at Star and

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Speaker 4: in particular here it was an organization called Sun City,

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Speaker 4: which is based in Macau, which basically has links to

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Speaker 4: Chinese organized crime and that operates what's called junkets at

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Speaker 4: casinos all over the world. And so basically what the

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Speaker 4: organization Sun City will do, they'll organize for a bunch

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Speaker 4: of kind of high rolling, you know, high wealth people,

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Speaker 4: often with connections to organized crime, to come to the

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Speaker 4: casino and basically facilitate this sort of money laundering. So

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Speaker 4: it's not exactly that Star Casino itself is operating the

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Speaker 4: money laundering, but that they were letting Sun City and

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Speaker 4: perhaps others do this under their nose. And what the

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Speaker 4: report found was that Sun City was given its own

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Speaker 4: kind of private room and ability to kind of trade

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Speaker 4: chips for money in its own kind of area, that

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Speaker 4: there was sort of CCTV footage that showed what looked

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Speaker 4: like some pretty shady kind of big handovers of large

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Speaker 4: words of cash and that sort of thing. And again,

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Speaker 4: the quote that I used before was vast sums that

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Speaker 4: basically that the regulator was concerned that an enormous amount

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Speaker 4: of money laundering was able to happen that management and

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Speaker 4: that the leadership of Star Casino were aware of this,

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Speaker 4: and basically that even when kind of junior managers would

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Speaker 4: raise concerns, that those concerns didn't go anywhere, and that

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Speaker 4: basically knowingly that the Star Casino was allowing people to

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Speaker 4: kind of to use it for money laundering purposes. What

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Speaker 4: the report was a kind of a deliberate and a

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Speaker 4: negligent operation to allow this to happen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a lot to get our heads around, but

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Speaker 2: it's only one of two facets that were covered by

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Speaker 2: this report. What was the other one?

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Speaker 4: So the other one was to do with problem gambling

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Speaker 4: and how casinos handle problem gamblers. And so there are

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Speaker 4: a couple of places where Star Casino basically kind of

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Speaker 4: fell foul of the rules and regulations that exist to

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Speaker 4: kind of limit problem gambling. One of those was offering

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Speaker 4: free alcohol in what was called their VIP room. So

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Speaker 4: that's very much a no no, and I guess in

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Speaker 4: this case, again, the report concluded that the alcohol was

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Speaker 4: basically being used as an inducement to gamble, and so

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Speaker 4: on the main floor of the casino you had to

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Speaker 4: purchase alcohol, but in this VIP room there was that

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Speaker 4: kind of that that inducement in the form of free alcohol.

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Speaker 4: There were also kind of you know, free chips and

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Speaker 4: various other inducements to encourage people to bet more. And

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Speaker 4: maybe the most alarming thing was that there were examples

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Speaker 4: of patrons gambling for over twenty four hours in a

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Speaker 4: row without any intervention from casino staff. And so again

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Speaker 4: there are some requirements there that are responsible. Casino is

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Speaker 4: supposed to intervene after a certain point to kind of,

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Speaker 4: you know, make sure that people aren't gambling for too

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Speaker 4: long at a time. The idea of sitting there for

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Speaker 4: more than twenty four hours at a time in gambling,

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Speaker 4: that's obviously pretty eyebrow raising amount of time, and so

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Speaker 4: there was a significant kind of criticism there on that

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Speaker 4: side of things as well. So they're the kind of

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Speaker 4: the two big things that the regulator used to conclude

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Speaker 4: that's start, casino shouldn't be able to continue its license.

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Speaker 2: But can I just pick up on something you said,

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Speaker 2: because you've mentioned a couple times throughout this that it's

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Speaker 2: not just the Star that has had these issues raised.

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Speaker 2: We know from news reporting that the Crown has had

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Speaker 2: similar allegations made against it. How do casinos move forward

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Speaker 2: with all of these issues that are so deeply entrenched

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Speaker 2: in how they operate. Well, I think it's a really

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Speaker 2: serious question. I think that there would be people who

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Speaker 2: would raise eyebrows and maybe ask the question of whether,

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Speaker 2: you know, the problem is casinos themselves, And it's a

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Speaker 2: really tricky, politically loaded question. State governments tend to tax

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Speaker 2: gambling revenue a lot, and so you know, there's I

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Speaker 2: guess there's a financial thing on the on the hook there.

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Speaker 2: The same is true with pokey machines, for example. State

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Speaker 2: governments get a lot of their revenue from what they

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Speaker 2: tax on pokey's. So you could make a cynical argument

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Speaker 2: that that kind of creates a bit of a conflict

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Speaker 2: of interest in the way that these things get regulated.

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Speaker 2: Casino ideals are obviously pretty lucrative. In the case of Sydney,

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Speaker 2: the construction of that casino Barangaroo was kind of again,

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Speaker 2: you know, shrouded in this sort of suggestion of you know,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of money involved, and when Crown

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Speaker 2: got that tender, that was quite a controversial thing to

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Speaker 2: even have the approval to build that casino in the

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Speaker 2: first place. So yeah, I think it's a really really

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Speaker 2: difficult question because it's not just Star, it's not just Crown.

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Speaker 2: There was a report a couple of years ago about

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Speaker 2: Woolworth's casinos that they were essentially keeping tabs collecting information

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Speaker 2: on regular patriots on what the strategies were that they

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Speaker 2: could use to encourage specific people who they knew were

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Speaker 2: problem gamblers to gamble more. Yeah, really really deeply alarming

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Speaker 2: and troubling stuff. And we know, you know, significant stats

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Speaker 2: about the harms of problem gambling in Australia.

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Speaker 4: It is a really significant social problem, quite an entrenched one.

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Speaker 4: So I think that the more that these you know,

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Speaker 4: individual casinos get investigated and get penalized, I guess while

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Speaker 4: it's appropriate that the penalties follow through on kind of

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Speaker 4: a casino by casino basis, I think everyone does start

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Speaker 4: to raise more and more of the question about how

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Speaker 4: as a society we want to handle these things.

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Speaker 2: We've spoken about a number of different casinos in this chat,

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Speaker 2: but we are talking about the Star today because of

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Speaker 2: a report that has come out this week. So what

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Speaker 2: happens to them next from here?

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Speaker 4: So they have a period of time where they have

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Speaker 4: the opportunity to kind of respond to the findings, and

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Speaker 4: I suppose to demonstrate that they're taking appropriate steps to

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Speaker 4: clear up the issues the report did find, particularly when

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Speaker 4: it came to say, the twenty four hour monitoring and

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Speaker 4: that kind of thing. That Star Casino had already taken

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Speaker 4: some steps, So it's possible that they take enough steps

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Speaker 4: to satisfy the regulator and continue operation. But Premier Dominic

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Speaker 4: Perite has been pretty clear already that you know, he's

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Speaker 4: willing to kind of take their license off them if

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Speaker 4: the right steps aren't taken. So we'll have to watch

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Speaker 4: and wait what happens over the next couple of weeks.

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