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Speaker 1: Now, the Northern Territory Police Association is urgently calling for

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Speaker 1: more police powers and tactical options following a series of

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Speaker 1: dangerous incidents involving stolen cars. Police vehicles were rammed multiple times,

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Speaker 1: once head on in Alice Springs on the weekend. The

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Speaker 1: association's president, Nathan Finn, fears it is only a matter

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Speaker 1: of time before an officer is killed if immediate action

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Speaker 1: isn't taken, and he joins me in the studio, good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Finny.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Finny, firstly, can you tell us what unfolded in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs on the weekend with those police units being rammed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so another police vehicle's been rammed in Alice Springs

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Speaker 2: on the weekend. This is not isolated Ellis Springs also, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and I must highlight that as well. We've seen this

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Speaker 2: in Catherine've seen this in Darwen as well. We've been

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Speaker 2: targeted not only by police but also ambulance offices as

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Speaker 2: well and security guards as well by these stolen vehicles.

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Speaker 2: It's unfortunate the situation Alice Springs again, that didn't actually

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Speaker 2: ram them once or twice, or was thinking was three

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Speaker 2: times during that pursuit, and it attempts to avoid apprehension.

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Speaker 2: That's disgusting, Katie, and our members aren't and don't deserve

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Speaker 2: to go to work each and every day to think

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Speaker 2: that their life's going to end each and every shift

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Speaker 2: that they go and protect our community. And that's a

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Speaker 2: sad fact that our members are facing at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Finny, I read that pressure lease out yesterday on the show,

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Speaker 1: and the thing that struck me is that we're talking

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Speaker 1: really young kids behind the wheel of a stolen vehicle

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Speaker 1: and that they then tried to ram the police head on.

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Speaker 1: It's like, it's horrifying, it's dangerous. And I said this

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Speaker 1: on air yesterday. You know what would happen, First off,

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Speaker 1: if the kids in that car ended up smashing it

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Speaker 1: really bad and died. What would happen if they smashed

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Speaker 1: into the police and killed a police officer?

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Speaker 2: Correct, Katie, And the thing is that the public are

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Speaker 2: seeing what's happening and they want our police to have

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Speaker 2: the appropriate tools to do the job that they need

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Speaker 2: to do. It's unfortunate these situations continue to cur but

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Speaker 2: we need to have the tactical options available to our

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Speaker 2: members to take the appropriate action both quickly and early

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Speaker 2: in that situation to avoid this danger not only to

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Speaker 2: the police, but also to the public as well.

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Speaker 1: Were any of those police officers.

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Speaker 2: Injured, they haven't received medical treatment these ones. But again,

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Speaker 2: I've got police officers off in Ellie Springs because of

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Speaker 2: vehicle rammings in the previous months that still haven't returned

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Speaker 2: to work, true to physical injuries and also mental injuries

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Speaker 2: as well, Catie, our police officers don't go every work

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Speaker 2: and this is where the frustrating thing when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about our consent agreement we'll referred to as public sector.

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Speaker 2: How many public sector workers in the Northern Territory go

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Speaker 2: to work expected to be sold every day, expect to

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Speaker 2: have a car driven at them, expecting to have their

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Speaker 2: life passed before them, and to continue to do their

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Speaker 2: work that they need to do well.

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Speaker 1: Delve into that a little bit more in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: In terms of those officers that have been rammed in

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Speaker 1: the last month or so, do you happen to know

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Speaker 1: how many off the top of your head.

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Speaker 2: I've known afore vehicles that police vehicles that have been

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Speaker 2: rammed in the preceding three months. Katie One's too many,

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Speaker 2: and we've seen this continually and this sort of behavior

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Speaker 2: continued to occur, especially in our springs as we've highlighted,

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Speaker 2: but again it's not only limited there as well.

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Speaker 1: But what are those officers saying to you that are

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Speaker 1: on the ground.

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Speaker 2: That our current technical options we've got available is too

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Speaker 2: is we've got tighter patient devices that we can deploy,

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Speaker 2: being the stingers, which need to require to be manually

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Speaker 2: put out onto the road and withdrawn from the road

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Speaker 2: as well. They're saying that their offenders know the locations

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Speaker 2: where we deploy these how they're deployed, so they're avoiding

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Speaker 2: these sites. They're knowing exactly what our operations are and

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Speaker 2: where we're going to deploy them, so they're avoiding those situations.

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Speaker 2: So it's enabling the pursuit to further endanger members of

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Speaker 2: the public and also our police officers who are engaged

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Speaker 2: in this behavior as well.

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Speaker 1: Finny, what tactical options do you want to see implemented?

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Speaker 1: What could be done to expand these powers?

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Speaker 2: So there's other options where can we can deploy mobile

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Speaker 2: solutions such as tire spikes, stopsticks from internal from inside

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Speaker 2: the car. There's also that we can and options available

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Speaker 2: to them where we don't have to take the risk

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Speaker 2: that we're currently seeing with only the limited operations. So

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Speaker 2: vehicle interdiction beinging vehicle on vehicle contact or boxing in

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Speaker 2: of offending vehicles. We've seen their propensity for violence towards us.

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Speaker 2: We need to take the offensive on that and actually

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Speaker 2: have the ability for our members to actually do the

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Speaker 2: same thing and take out the visay.

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Speaker 1: So how exactly does that work just in a practical sense,

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Speaker 1: you know, for.

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Speaker 2: Practical sense, Yeah, and not interdiction everyone, Gail help quite sad,

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Speaker 2: I totally understand that. But you'll see they're called pit

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Speaker 2: maneuvers in the America. You'll see police vehicles being able

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Speaker 2: to take out stolen vehicles, being able to disable them,

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Speaker 2: being able to box them and place pressure on by

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Speaker 2: a vehicle and box the mental situation where they can

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Speaker 2: actually drive the vehicle any further. So therefore stopping the

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Speaker 2: risk further to police and also to the public.

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Speaker 1: Would that require extra training from our police officers and

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Speaker 1: could it be a dangerous situation?

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Speaker 2: That's correct, and it's not something that we want to

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Speaker 2: lay out to every member of the police force. It's

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Speaker 2: something that specialized training that takes place, and to make

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Speaker 2: sure that it's done as safely as possible, again making

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Speaker 2: sure that there's no risk to police and there's also

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Speaker 2: no risk to the public, continuing to make sure it's

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Speaker 2: done earlier and possible.

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Speaker 1: Is that something you've spoken to the Police executive or

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Speaker 1: the government about it this stag.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something I've written to the Police Executive about

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Speaker 2: and that's what I've asked them to consider and consider

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Speaker 2: training and have that availability. Currently our tig are trained

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Speaker 2: within that with the interdiction sort of things and the

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Speaker 2: boxing in we haven't seen that when we send TORG

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Speaker 2: members to Olurs Springs. They've got the ability to do

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Speaker 2: that down there, but we haven't got that full time

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Speaker 2: capacity in our springs to do that.

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Speaker 1: So is it something like would it require legislative change

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Speaker 1: or is it more something that requires operational change.

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Speaker 2: More operational change and more operational policy and different procedures

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Speaker 2: to make sure that our members are covered by doing that.

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Speaker 2: And again it's a risky situation, but again, at what

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Speaker 2: sake do we risk the continual lives of police buying

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Speaker 2: not having the ability to do this or to take

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Speaker 2: this appropriate action to them and to further risk both

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Speaker 2: of the public and police if we.

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Speaker 1: Haven't, if any, are there any other measures that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association would like to see in an

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Speaker 1: effort to try to protect those frontline police officers.

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Speaker 2: There's always stuff that we can do, Kadie, and to

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Speaker 2: make sure they're protected, to make sure we've got appropriate vehicles,

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we've seen a number of Oursidans

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Speaker 2: are being rammed by full drive vehicles that have a

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Speaker 2: stolen with bull bars, et cetera. We haven't got the

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Speaker 2: capability of the capacity in the police force at the

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Speaker 2: moment to have vehicles to be able to compound that.

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Speaker 2: And they're being assaulted because of they're in a smaller vehicle.

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Speaker 2: The offenders feel like they're bigger and a bigger vehicle

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Speaker 2: and actually ramming the police vehicles and to some point

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Speaker 2: getting away with what they're doing at certain points because

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Speaker 2: they're disabling our police cars.

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Speaker 1: I mean it just like there's people messaging through this

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Speaker 1: morning just going how is it that the police aren't

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Speaker 1: in a situation where they can use other methods to

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Speaker 1: try and stop a car like it's you know, people

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Speaker 1: are basically messaging through saying how dangerous it is now

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Speaker 1: they feel for the police and having a car being

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Speaker 1: driven at them. I mean, what is it like for

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Speaker 1: a police officer then when you're you know, like when

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Speaker 1: you are on duty and you've literally got someone in

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Speaker 1: a stolen car like driving at you. It sounds utterly

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Speaker 1: horrifying and frightening.

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Speaker 2: It is, Katie, and our members are reporting that each

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Speaker 2: and every shift they go to they don't know what's

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Speaker 2: going to fertil if that's going to be their last

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Speaker 2: shift they are going to work, if that's someone's going

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Speaker 2: to have to go home and tell the tell their

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Speaker 2: wives and their family that they're not coming home from

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Speaker 2: their shift. And that's what where members are feeling. And

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling for our members as well out there to

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Speaker 2: make sure that they're supported and got the obligations and

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Speaker 2: the tactical options for them to take the appropriate action

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Speaker 2: which the public want us to do.

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Speaker 1: Look, someone's just messaged through and said, Katie, we've been

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Speaker 1: banging on about this for years. Using a vehicle as

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Speaker 1: a weapon should be attempted manslaughter. The government and the

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Speaker 1: judicial system won't touch it. Why deaths are lifelong injuries,

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Speaker 1: and lifelong injuries, sorry, will be the price it's disgusting,

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Speaker 1: sees Rob. I mean, that's one of the messages coming

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Speaker 1: through and I know it's it must be a really

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Speaker 1: tough juggle for the police when you're out on the

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Speaker 1: road if you know you've got a young kid that

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Speaker 1: is behind the wheel of a car. I mean, in

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Speaker 1: some of these instances, we are literally talking about young

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Speaker 1: people aged you know, eleven to thirteen. They should not

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Speaker 1: be in a car driving a car in any way,

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Speaker 1: but then to think about them driving one at a

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Speaker 1: police car is like it just sort of indicates to

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Speaker 1: me they're either not worried about the consequence or they

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Speaker 1: have no real care for the ramification or no understanding

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Speaker 1: of the ramification.

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Speaker 2: They don't feel the consequences, and they they don't have

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Speaker 2: any knowledge Caddy of the ramifications that possibly can pay.

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Speaker 2: But our police officers do. They have to put up

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Speaker 2: with this time and time again. As I said before,

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Speaker 2: we've got members that are still off work because of

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Speaker 2: the injuries they've received because of these and that's a Ballingkadie.

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Speaker 2: And if our members don't go to work to be targeted,

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Speaker 2: they need the tacchnical options available to them to take

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Speaker 2: the appropriate action that the community obviously wants us to

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Speaker 2: take the technical withdrawing of our police officers back to

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Speaker 2: a police station is not a technical option where we

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Speaker 2: let the stolen vehicle drive around and round. That's what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing at the moment, and our members are frustrated

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Speaker 2: quite rightfully, so they want to take action, but they

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Speaker 2: haven't got the tools and they haven't got the ability

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Speaker 2: to do that without risking their lives.

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Speaker 1: Finny, I want to ask you. Last week, the Independent

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Speaker 1: Member for Johnson, Justine Davis, presented a letter to Parliament

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Speaker 1: signed by more than one hundred frontline workers saying they

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Speaker 1: do not want mandatory sentencing for those who assault frontline workers.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of that?

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Speaker 2: That's probably why she come and had a meeting with

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Speaker 2: us CADI end of last week to discuss this as

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Speaker 2: well with US and an other topics as well. We're

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Speaker 2: quite concerned again, if the judiciary is taking the appropriate

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Speaker 2: action in relation to protecting our frontline workers, we wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have to have a mandatory minimum sentencing. And members are

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Speaker 2: sick of being punching bags for the community and members

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Speaker 2: are sick of going to work every single day and

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Speaker 2: being assaulted. We've seen over three hundred defences. I think

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Speaker 2: it was last year of assault police. Unfortunately, we're not

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Speaker 2: seeing the sentencing provisions to obviously deter that side of behavior,

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Speaker 2: and that's why the action's being taken. Again, some frontline

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Speaker 2: workers out there, they probably don't agree with it, and

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Speaker 2: she's representing those. But again, if it's a police officers

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Speaker 2: saying that to her that they don't support it, I'd

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Speaker 2: say think again, because a lot of our members are

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Speaker 2: coming forward to us and congratulating us forgetting that mantary

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Speaker 2: sentencing in for assault police.

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Speaker 1: Finny, before I let you go, I know the Police

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Speaker 1: Association has said that negotiations on a new pay agreement

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Speaker 1: have stalled with the government. What's the situation at this point?

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Speaker 2: So the situation is the wages policies out Katie, which

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Speaker 2: limits to the three three percent per annum for all the

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Speaker 2: public sector employees. We're arguing that police aren't public sector

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Speaker 2: employees because again they don't go to work knowing that

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Speaker 2: they're going to be assaulted and knowing again only they're

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Speaker 2: going to have a car driven at them. Dealing with

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Speaker 2: crime levels that we haven't seen across Australia, which three

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Speaker 2: times more than the average across Australia. The workload that

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Speaker 2: our police are doing is phenomenal and we want to

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Speaker 2: them to be rewarded for what they're doing. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: other jurisdictions across Australia being offered five percent above five

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Speaker 2: percent pay rises and making a more attractive option for

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Speaker 2: our experienced members to go elsewhere to retain our experienced

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Speaker 2: members within the all and Territory, and we don't feel

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Speaker 2: that the three percent offered by the government peranum currently

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Speaker 2: is acceptable to our members.

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Speaker 1: Would five percent more hit the mark or do you

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Speaker 1: just want to be back at the table with them.

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Speaker 2: We want to the table with an option to come forward.

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Speaker 2: We've put it forward our loger claims in respect to

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Speaker 2: the negotiation Cady and we haven't seen an offer come

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Speaker 2: back to us in respect to that. They've stayed strong

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Speaker 2: and saying that there's no back pay if we don't

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Speaker 2: come to an agreement. We're two thirds of the way

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Speaker 2: into our negotiation period CAATY and we still haven't seen

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Speaker 2: an option to come back to us. Our members are frustrated,

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Speaker 2: our members don't feel respected that they should be and

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Speaker 2: we warn the devastating impacts if the government doesn't come

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Speaker 2: to the table. They were voted in on a law

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Speaker 2: and order platform. They expect the police to carry out

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Speaker 2: majority of that work and to make sure that the

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Speaker 2: territories are safe for place. We're seeing that work being

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Speaker 2: undertaken every day by our members, and we want to

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Speaker 2: say that our members deserve to be rewarded and to

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Speaker 2: looked after.

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Speaker 1: Finny, I just want to ask you very quickly about

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Speaker 1: this story that's been reported on the ABC today. They've

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Speaker 1: obtained footage from back in April twenty twenty three which

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Speaker 1: shows three security guards man handling and one kicking a

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Speaker 1: person in the head in Darwin City. Now, I, in

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Speaker 1: no way, shape or form can dine violence against anybody.

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Speaker 1: I think that that is very safe to say, and

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Speaker 1: the footage is pretty appalling. However, it is relating to

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Speaker 1: these security guards. They're questioning whether these security guards are

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Speaker 1: needed in our CBD or anywhere around Darwin. I guess,

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Speaker 1: as the Four Corners report a little while back, did

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Speaker 1: I mean are we in a situation yet where we

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Speaker 1: have enough police to no longer need private security.

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Speaker 2: We're definitely that position, Katie, and you've heard it time

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Speaker 2: and time again as we come on the radio station

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Speaker 2: all your listeners as well. We haven't enough police to

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Speaker 2: do the job we need to do it currently, so

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Speaker 2: hence there's security for a reason. If there wasn't a reason,

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't be there. We're seeing them deal with members

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Speaker 2: of the society that choose to misbehave. Unfortunately, in this

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Speaker 2: circumstance answers, I haven't seen the footage as available what

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Speaker 2: you're talking about, but again, if they have done something wrong,

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Speaker 2: they'll be investigation conducted, they'll be how to account for

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Speaker 2: that caddy, like anyone to court.

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Speaker 1: As my understanding that security that security guard has ended

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Speaker 1: up going to court. I guess, you know the ABC

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Speaker 1: running it because they've got their hands on the footage.

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Speaker 1: But it just, you know, like to me, I just

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Speaker 1: sort of I questioned the outrage in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways with that footage. I get the outrage, it's horrific,

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Speaker 1: but then I also question, you know, like, where's the

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Speaker 1: outrage when you've got women being allegedly raped in our CBD.

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Speaker 1: Where is the outrage when one hundred and one year

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Speaker 1: old you know, was robbed a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: There is so many issues at the moment that our

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Speaker 1: police are dealing with every single day. Those security guards

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Speaker 1: obviously trying to minimize things to some degree or help

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Speaker 1: people in the city to some degree.

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Speaker 2: You don't know what's leading up to that either, Cady.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing a snapshot of a small piece of footage

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Speaker 2: and we don't know what's entailed to that. We don't

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Speaker 2: know if the offender's arm, we don't know anything about

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Speaker 2: the situation. Again, we're seeing a snapshot a little bit

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Speaker 2: of footage about it. And again, if he has gone

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Speaker 2: to court, he's been how to account. If the courts

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Speaker 2: deemed it appropriate for any sentencing to be part of that,

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Speaker 2: it's up to the court system and we as the police,

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Speaker 2: we were to investigated that and we will put that

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Speaker 2: before the court if that's this case.

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Speaker 1: Well, Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,

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Speaker 1: always good to catch up with you. Really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Always a pleasure coming in here and speaking to you

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Speaker 2: and on behalf of our members. We say thank you

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Speaker 2: for supporting our police and making sure that they can

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Speaker 2: do the best possible job that they can do, and

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Speaker 2: we're looking forward to getting on and doing what we

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Speaker 2: need to do and making sure that our members are supported.

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Speaker 1: Going well for I think our Northern Territory police work

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Speaker 1: incredibly hard under what can be incredibly difficult circumstances. So Finny,

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Speaker 1: thank you for your time. We'll catch up with you soon.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you,