1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: Now, we did speak a little bit earlier this morning 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: about the real estate market and how things are going 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: at the moment with the latest Core Logic figures coming out, 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: but joining us on the line to talk a little 5 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: bit more about the new home starts or new home builds, 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: I should say, from Master Builders it is Dave Malone. 7 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Good morning to you. 8 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: Dave, Good morning Katie. How are you? 9 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: Yeah? Really well, always great to have you on the show. Now, Dave, 10 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: I know that the Fidelity will those certificates, the new 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: Fidelity certificates they come out, well, it sort of goes 12 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: back a month or so, and those latest numbers show 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: that the reality is that there's just thirty three new 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: Fidelity certificates for houses, units and extensions across in Northern 15 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: Territory for the months of April. How does that compare 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: to other years and other months, Well. 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: Katie, certainly it's a long way down on what we 18 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: would have seen twelve months earlier. The truth of the 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: matter is the housing market has been pretty subducted, to 20 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: be honest, for a while now. We've talked about it 21 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: before government's removed the buyer incentives. There's been some challenges 22 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: around land and some prices have gone up with materials, 23 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 2: so the housing market's getting whacked a bit from all dimensions, 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 2: and we're seeing it in the number of people signing 25 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: up for new contracts and so, Dave, what. 26 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Does it mean, you know, when you look more broadly 27 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: at the way that we're trying to grow the Northern 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: Territory's economy, we're trying to grow the population. What do 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: you think it means in that sense when we're not 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: seeing these new home builds. 31 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: It's a real challenge, I think for us. The truth 32 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: of the matter is home ownership is actually quite low 33 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: in the territory in comparison to elsewhere in the country. So, 34 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: you know, one of the first challenges when you want 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: to grow an emerging economy like ours is you've got 36 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: to convince people to put down routes, and the best 37 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: way to do that is to get them to build 38 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 2: their own home. So it's certainly a handbrakeer on development. 39 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: We're certainly not building enough homes for what looks like 40 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: coming out our way over the next few years as well. 41 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: And you know, we chop and change in terms of 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: the sort of policy that sits around new home ownership. 43 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: You know, we very strongly believe we should have targets 44 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: for home ownership in the NT and we should put 45 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: all the you know, the various elements together to make 46 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: sure we achieve it. 47 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: So what would that look like, Dave, Well. 48 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: We'd say, for example, we should set a target, like 49 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 2: you know, at the moment, home ownership in the territories 50 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: around fifty percent. Elsewhere in the country it's around seventy. 51 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 2: So we should set some targets around saying we really 52 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: want territories to put their roots down and start to 53 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: put proactive policies in place. To do that, we've got 54 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: to get land released out far more quickly, and the 55 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: government did a review last year if that, though we 56 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: don't know where that is right now, but it's so 57 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: slow to get service land or titled land available that 58 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: even if homeowners wanted to go out and buy a 59 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: brock of land today it's a real struggle. So we've 60 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: just you know, we've got a clunky system right now. 61 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: We think there should be some focus targets and much 62 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: faster land release. 63 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: Well, and it's something that land release, I know that 64 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: it is something that well, the former Chief Minister Michael 65 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: Gunner had flagged at I can't remember what speech it was, 66 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: but it is something that he'd flagged earlier in the years, 67 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: saying that they did want to get a number of 68 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: those pieces of land wealth serviced and ready to go 69 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: so that people could build on them. But how far 70 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: off are we from some of that land actually becoming available? 71 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: Do you reckon? 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: Well, the land comes out and it's in trims and drabs, 73 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: because the current arrangements require the developer to go through 74 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: a very linear process, you know, the step by step 75 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: by step. When Dick god was asked by the Chief 76 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: Minister to look at land release, he made a series 77 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: recommendations over twenty in fact, and you know, we saw 78 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: that report that he put out last October and we 79 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: wrote to the previous Chief Minister and said, gee, it's 80 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: a good idea. Let's get stuck in. Yeah, but we 81 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: haven't really heard too much more since then. We've got 82 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: to be able to do You have to be able 83 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 2: to go for a drive through a new subdivision, say 84 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: I like that block of land and buy it, not 85 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: wait a year or longer to get a title before 86 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: you can start building. 87 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: So what are some of the issues in our way 88 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: at the moment when it comes to you know, when 89 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: it comes to housing and building new homes, obviously that 90 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: land release is an issue. Are things like supplies having 91 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: an impact at the moment, by sure, And. 92 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: Let's be honest, it's just a default problem from COVID. 93 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: It's no one else's fault. We just had shortages of supply, 94 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: and so builders who could normally knock a home out 95 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: twenty weeks or so are taking much longer just simply 96 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: because they can't get hold of the materials. But as 97 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: things as we get further away from COVID, that is 98 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: settling down. But it has definitely been an impact for 99 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: builders for some time. And you know, that's just delayed 100 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: everything for people, and it's put incredible pressure on the 101 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 2: building and the homeowners as they've watched those prices escalate 102 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: as well. I just had my fingers crossed. Now that 103 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: you know things supply chains are starting to settle down, 104 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: and you know what we've seen is, you know, in 105 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: terms of price rises are the worst and it's behind 106 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: us now. 107 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: Well, and Dave just going back you know to the 108 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: Fidelity Fund will to those certificates and the fact that 109 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: it's thirteen less certificates or twenty eight percent down on 110 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: the month before, So we're talking April twenty twenty two, 111 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: So for March twenty twenty two, it's thirteen less than that. 112 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: Then we also know that if you compare it to 113 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: April twenty twenty one, it's nineteen less certificates or thirty 114 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: six percent down on that same month the year before. 115 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't sound like a huge number, but 116 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: there is no doubt that that would be having a 117 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: massive impact on the industry. I would suspect it. 118 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: Does, and the volatilities is as Chow has anything else. 119 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: To be honest, you know, if you're whether you're a 120 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 2: contractor you know, like a subcontractor working on site or 121 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 2: the home builder signing a contract with the homeowner, if 122 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: you know, if it's up and then it's down, and 123 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: particularly when it's really flat, that's really challenging for everybody. 124 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 2: The housing market in the territory. We need to just 125 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: take a fresh look at it and go, well, we 126 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: need a certain number of homes going forward, and what 127 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: can we do to put the right mechanisms and incentives 128 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: in place. Otherwise you're going to keep seeing those reports 129 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: say one month we jump up and next month it's down. Again, 130 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: and you know that's not good for anyone. 131 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: And when you talk again more broadly about the economy 132 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: and growing the territory, you know how big an impact 133 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: could this have? 134 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: Huge, Codie, all the research says that if you want 135 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 2: to get the economy kicking along, you put opportunity and 136 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: incentives into the housing market, because that money spins through 137 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 2: the economy faster than any other active We saw that 138 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: through COVID, didn't We remember the trading scheme and how 139 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: quickly that renovation works spun through the economy. It's exactly 140 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: the same for house building, and it provides a lot 141 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: of work for people in what's called the cottage industry. 142 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: You know, those small one or two person businesses, Mum 143 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,679 Speaker 2: and dad or partners. That's how they eventually go into 144 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: the really large companies that we see around town doing 145 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: commercial work. They've all got to start somewhere, and the 146 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: residential sectors where many of them start, Dave. 147 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: What could some of those incentives be, What could some 148 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: of those things be that we could look at reintroducing 149 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: to the Northern territory or news schemes. 150 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,119 Speaker 2: I think you've heard me bang on before, Cadie about 151 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: how hard homeowners get taxed. The homeowners get taxed. You know, 152 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: the average home has a GST build of around fifty 153 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: thousand dollars on it. They've got stamp duty bills of 154 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: another twenty thousand or so. Government takes a clip on 155 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: a lot of the land because it owns the land. 156 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: So people are playing a lot of money, you know, 157 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: seventy eighty ninety thousand dollars in taxes of one shape 158 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: or form or another. And my view is we're all 159 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: going to be better off if we just turn a 160 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: bit of that tax back into supporting the homeowners to 161 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: get started, to get their deposit together. So and I 162 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: think build bonus that we had before was fantastic. The 163 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: government dropped it. It should never have done that. That's 164 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: probably the starting point for anything that we do now 165 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: is give first home buyers in particular a leg up 166 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: to get that deposit. 167 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: Well, Dave Malone, the CEO of Master Builders here in 168 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory, it's always good to catch up with you. 169 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. 170 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, have a good day you too.