WEBVTT - Taylor Swift's album saga, explained

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily OS. It's Monday, the ninth of June. I'm Billy

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<v Speaker 1>fitz Simon's I'm Sam Kazlowski. About two weeks ago, or

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<v Speaker 1>just under that, Taylor Swift announced that she brought the

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<v Speaker 1>masters to her first six albums, meaning she now effectively

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<v Speaker 1>owns all of her albums and has complete control over

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<v Speaker 1>her creative work. It was a surprising development that brought

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<v Speaker 1>an end to one of the biggest and long standing

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<v Speaker 1>stories in pop culture over the past five years. So

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<v Speaker 1>what does an artist owning their masters actually mean? And

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<v Speaker 1>how will this impact the music industry as a whole.

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<v Speaker 2>Billy, I really love this story because it brings in

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<v Speaker 2>one of your favorite pop stars. It's probably your favorite

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<v Speaker 2>pop stars.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. I was going to say, I'm so glad that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing this podcast with you, because when we first

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<v Speaker 1>started working together, for the first two years, we drove

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<v Speaker 1>to work together every single day, and I would always

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<v Speaker 1>want to put on Taylor Swift. And not only would

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<v Speaker 1>I want to sing with you, Taylor Swift, but I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to explain to you the stories behind every single song,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the songs are about this master's dispute.

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<v Speaker 2>So I want every listener to imagine this. You're sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in the car with Billy in the passenger seat. She

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<v Speaker 2>pauses the song to explain the lyric and then keeps

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<v Speaker 2>playing the song.

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<v Speaker 1>I need to pause ten seconds later, and so the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that we are now in a podcast studio and

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<v Speaker 1>you actually have to sit there for the next fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>minutes or so. As I explained, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>So excited, thrilled. But it's a really amazing story. It

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<v Speaker 2>brings in a lot of interesting dynamics that are more

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<v Speaker 2>related to the business side of music, to the way

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<v Speaker 2>that artists are managed and they manage their own catalog.

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<v Speaker 2>Where do you want to start with this story?

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<v Speaker 1>I think we should start with what we're actually talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're not talking about all of her albums. We're

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<v Speaker 1>just talking about the first six. So that starts with

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<v Speaker 1>her first album that she released in two thousand and six,

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<v Speaker 1>which was called Taylor Swift, and then it goes all

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<v Speaker 1>the way through to her Reputation album released in twenty seventeen. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>when I think of you, I think about you being

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<v Speaker 1>a reputation.

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<v Speaker 2>Boy, Yeah, I'm lately in the reputation that you are. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's you. Okay, So we're talking about more than a

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<v Speaker 2>decade of music exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So this all started when Swift was fifteen, so in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand and five, and that is when she signed

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<v Speaker 1>with the record label Big Machine Records. Now, they were

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<v Speaker 1>a completely new record company and it was founded by

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<v Speaker 1>a man named Scott Buscheedda and he had a particular

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<v Speaker 1>focus on country music, which, as we know, is where

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<v Speaker 1>Taylor Swift got her start. Sure, and so at that time,

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<v Speaker 1>when she was fifteen, right in the middle of her

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<v Speaker 1>teenage years, Swift signed over the ownership of her first

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<v Speaker 1>six studio albums Masters.

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<v Speaker 2>And I feel like masters is the first piece of

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<v Speaker 2>music jargon that we need to get out around. So

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<v Speaker 2>exactly do you mean when you say masters?

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<v Speaker 1>I actually didn't know this until I did all of

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<v Speaker 1>the research. I just presumed that it was the intellectual

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<v Speaker 1>property of her album, which it kind of is, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very specific form of that. So a master

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<v Speaker 1>is actually just the original recording of a song, so

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<v Speaker 1>a file exactly, So every other version of that song

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<v Speaker 1>that we hear on streaming platforms or on YouTube or

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<v Speaker 1>anything like that is actually just a copy of that

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<v Speaker 1>song that has kind of been licensed out.

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<v Speaker 2>That makes sense, yeah, kind of, So it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like an artwork almost like if you think about the

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<v Speaker 2>painting on the wall, that's the master exactly, and you

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<v Speaker 2>can own a print of that, but it's not the

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<v Speaker 2>original painting.

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<v Speaker 1>That is the perfect analogy.

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<v Speaker 2>Well huh ha ha.

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<v Speaker 1>And so if you don't own your master, it means

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<v Speaker 1>that you don't have total creative control over where and

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<v Speaker 1>how that music is used. You definitely have some control

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<v Speaker 1>and some say in how it is used and everything,

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<v Speaker 1>especially with Taylor Swift, who is also the songwriter of

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<v Speaker 1>all of her songs, but she just doesn't have total

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<v Speaker 1>creative control because that belongs to the person who owns

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<v Speaker 1>the masters, which in this case was her record label.

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<v Speaker 2>So would you say she was looking at these masters

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time and going you belong with me? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you? Okay, great point one to Sam, So, Billy,

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<v Speaker 2>is it normal for artists to own these master copies?

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<v Speaker 1>So from my understanding, and certainly what Taylor Swift has

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<v Speaker 1>said is the case, but is what she's trying to

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<v Speaker 1>change for many music artists is that it is actually

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<v Speaker 1>not the standard that artists own their own masters. So historically,

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<v Speaker 1>how it usually has worked is that record labels will

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<v Speaker 1>hold the ownership of masters and also all related materials,

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<v Speaker 1>so things like music videos, album covers, all of the

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<v Speaker 1>associated materials that comes with an album, they will own

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<v Speaker 1>that and in return, the label provides recording resources, marketing spend,

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<v Speaker 1>financial backing. Kind of, I guess they take on all

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<v Speaker 1>of the distribution. Yeah, and I think, you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>to remember that at fifteen, Taylor Swift didn't have the

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<v Speaker 1>career that she has now obviously, and so I guess

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<v Speaker 1>you could argue that it was kind of a risk

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<v Speaker 1>for them to bring on this new singer.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, there's all these videos of her, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>performing with a guitar in the shopping mall. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, was really just a fifteen year old who

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<v Speaker 2>was not guaranteed to have this sort of stuf.

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<v Speaker 1>No, definitely not. And Scott Bouschetta saw her, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>singing in a bar and was the one who reached

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<v Speaker 1>out to her and said, I want to sign you

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<v Speaker 1>to my new record label. And so what I just

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<v Speaker 1>explained about, you know, how it traditionally works that is

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<v Speaker 1>how it happened with Taylor Swift.

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<v Speaker 2>So the issue that we're talking about today, and the

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<v Speaker 2>reason we're talking about this on the podcast, is the

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<v Speaker 2>ownership of these master files exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And she has said that she has made it very

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<v Speaker 1>clear throughout her relationship with Big Machine Records that eventually

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<v Speaker 1>she said she wanted to own these masters. And what

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<v Speaker 1>happened was that after those first six albums, so after

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<v Speaker 1>she completed the contractual agreement that she would give over

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<v Speaker 1>the masters of her first six albums, Big Machine Records

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<v Speaker 1>then said, here is a new deal that would allow

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<v Speaker 1>her to earn the rights to one album at a

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<v Speaker 1>time for every new album that she produced.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, okay, so keep making music for Big Machine Records

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<v Speaker 2>and in exchange will almost give you one from the

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<v Speaker 2>catalog for you to have this eventual goal exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>She rejected that deal and instead, in twenty eighteen, she

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<v Speaker 1>moved to a new record label, Universal Music Group, who

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<v Speaker 1>allowed her to own the masters of all of her

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<v Speaker 1>future albums. So she basically left her old albums behind,

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<v Speaker 1>but with her new albums was able to now own

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<v Speaker 1>the masters of those.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to continue this chat about Taylor Swift, write

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<v Speaker 2>after a quick message from our sponsor. And so what

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<v Speaker 2>happened to those old masters? Did they kind of stay

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<v Speaker 2>in the custody of Big Machine Records?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes they did, And shortly after Taylor Swift left, Scott

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<v Speaker 1>Boschedder again, the founder of Big Machine Records, sold the

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<v Speaker 1>company which owned the first six albums of Taylor Swift

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<v Speaker 1>to a man named Scooter Braun.

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<v Speaker 2>Who we know, We know Scooter Braun, We.

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<v Speaker 1>Do know if the name rings a bell, but you

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<v Speaker 1>don't exactly know who we're talking about. Scooter Braun was

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<v Speaker 1>the manager of Justin Bieber. He is credited with discovering

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<v Speaker 1>Justin Bieber, and he's also the manager of many other

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<v Speaker 1>well known artists. He was the manager of Ariana Grande,

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<v Speaker 1>Demi Levado. They're a whole suite of very famous artists

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<v Speaker 1>who Scooter Braun was the manager of. I almost think

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<v Speaker 1>now though he's just as well known for this dispute

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<v Speaker 1>with Taylor Swift as he is for being the manager

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<v Speaker 1>is well known artists.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I feel like it's been going on for a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years now. So he came over. Where are

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<v Speaker 2>we in the timeline? So he came over and became

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<v Speaker 2>the owner of Big Machine Records in about twenty eighteen,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen. Yes, so he's been This has been a

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<v Speaker 2>plot line for a couple of years now. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And why was it so controversial four Big Machine Records

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<v Speaker 2>to be sold to Scooter Braun?

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<v Speaker 1>So I had forgot this, But Scooter Braun was actually

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<v Speaker 1>Kanye West manager right after he published that song famous.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember that? It was very big at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was big because it was so controversial because it

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<v Speaker 1>had the lyrics I feel like me and Taylor might

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<v Speaker 1>still have sex. Why I made that bitch famous? And

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<v Speaker 1>in the music video it depicted a naked version.

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<v Speaker 2>Of Taylor and so some context there. So that refers

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<v Speaker 2>to the two thousand and nine incident at the Video

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<v Speaker 2>Music Awards the VMAs, where Taylor Swift had won an

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<v Speaker 2>award and Kanye West got up on stage and essentially said, no,

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<v Speaker 2>this award should belong to Beyonce. And that moment on

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<v Speaker 2>stage was a really polarizing moment of pop culture. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the moment that West is referring to exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And West was basically taking credit for Taylor Swift being famous,

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<v Speaker 1>and so Taylor had some pretty complicated feelings.

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<v Speaker 2>About that, and so Scooter Braun at the time then

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<v Speaker 2>managed Taylor Swift and Kanye West, who had just written

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<v Speaker 2>this controversial lyric.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Scooter Braun wasn't the manager of Taylor Swift because

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<v Speaker 1>she had left, but he was the manager of Kanye West.

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<v Speaker 1>But Taylor Swift had no professional relationship with Scooter Braun

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<v Speaker 1>outside of him just owning her previous hour list.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 1>Yep?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So he basically had some crossover between Kanye West

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<v Speaker 2>and Taylor Swift at the same time, exactly right now.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty nineteen, when the news broke that Big Machine

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<v Speaker 1>Records had sold to Scooter Braun, Swift released a statement

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<v Speaker 1>to Tumbla Tumbla. Now, the statement was quite lengthy. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>obviously not going to read it out all, but I

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<v Speaker 1>do want to read out a little bit. She said,

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<v Speaker 1>all I could think about was the incessant, manipulative bullying

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<v Speaker 1>I've received at his hands for years. They're obviously referring

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<v Speaker 1>to Scooter Braun. Then she goes on or when his

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<v Speaker 1>client Kanye West organized a revenge porn music video which

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<v Speaker 1>strips my body naked. Now Scooter has stripped me of

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<v Speaker 1>my life's work that I wasn't given an opportunity to buy.

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<v Speaker 1>This is my worst case scenario. So don't think you

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<v Speaker 1>can overstate how much Taylor Swift did not want to

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<v Speaker 1>have any involvement with Scooter Braun. Another part of this

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<v Speaker 1>is that Taylor Swift also claimed that she didn't even

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<v Speaker 1>know that Scooter Braun was going to be buying her

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<v Speaker 1>albums until the rest of the world did. Now that

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<v Speaker 1>is disputed because her father, he is actually a shareholder

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<v Speaker 1>of Big Machine Records, and so they said that they

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<v Speaker 1>did know because the father is a shareholder and so

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<v Speaker 1>he knew about the sale. That's disputed. That's just another

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<v Speaker 1>side part of this whole story.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so what did Scooter Braun say? What's his version

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<v Speaker 2>of events here?

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<v Speaker 1>Scooter Braun's version of events is that he tried to

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<v Speaker 1>have an open conversation with Taylor Swift and that that

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<v Speaker 1>was rejected by her team and Taylor Swift herself at

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<v Speaker 1>every stage. And so he's saying, we tried to have

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<v Speaker 1>a conversation that didn't go down, and so now I

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<v Speaker 1>can't really engage with you if you're not even willing

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<v Speaker 1>to speak to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So a bit of a stalemate there, and so how

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<v Speaker 2>did we get from that stalemate to where we are today,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that the ownership of these masters has now

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<v Speaker 2>transferred to Taylor Swift.

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<v Speaker 1>So before we get to what happened two weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 1>what you also need to know is that in twenty twenty,

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<v Speaker 1>Scooter Braun actually sold the masters of Taylor's albums to

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<v Speaker 1>someone else. He then sold it to This.

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<v Speaker 2>Is complicated, I know.

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<v Speaker 1>He then sold it to a private equity firm that

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<v Speaker 1>is called Shamrock Capital. And so for the past five

0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.280
<v Speaker 1>years they have been the owners of these masters.

0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so Scooter Braun owns it because he bought Big

0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Machine Records. Yes, he then sells it, just the masters

0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 2>to a private equity firm. The private equity firm then

0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.640
<v Speaker 2>holds these masters until two weeks ago when Taylor Swift

0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:46.760
<v Speaker 2>flights them exactly.

0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.880
<v Speaker 1>So, two weeks ago, Taylor Swift announced via a letter

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.840
<v Speaker 1>on her website that she had bought the rights to

0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.320
<v Speaker 1>her albums. Now, a lot of headlines were saying that

0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.240
<v Speaker 1>she bought back the rights to her albums, but I

0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.680
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's accurately because you can't buy it back

0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:02.560
<v Speaker 1>if you never owned.

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.720
<v Speaker 2>She never actually had she never own ownership over it.

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, I'll.

0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Read you out some of her statement. She said, to

0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>say this is the greatest dream come true is actually

0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.959
<v Speaker 1>being pretty reserved about it. All I have ever wanted

0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.600
<v Speaker 1>was the opportunity to work hard enough to be able

0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.040
<v Speaker 1>to one day purchase my music outright, with no strings attached,

0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.560
<v Speaker 1>no partnership, with full autonomy. And so what she's saying

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.800
<v Speaker 1>there is that she was actually able to buy these

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.160
<v Speaker 1>completely herself, and so now she has full ownership of

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.440
<v Speaker 1>all of the music that she has ever created. I

0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.959
<v Speaker 1>also want to say she addressed what we haven't even

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.840
<v Speaker 1>spoken about, is that she re recorded her albums. She

0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 1>remembered that Taylor's version, Taylor's version.

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, the pieces are coming together. Yeah, slowly, but surely

0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.599
<v Speaker 2>the pieces are coming together. Okay, So let me just

0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.920
<v Speaker 2>make sense of this for all the non Swifties listening. Yes,

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 2>so she was in the situation where she didn't own

0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 2>the masters of these songs that were the early albums,

0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and so I'd say we're talking here like early twenty twenty.

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 2>She then thought to herself, all right, well, if I

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.040
<v Speaker 2>can't own those masters, I'll go record new masters.

0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. Ah huh, And so that is why she was

0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 1>re recording her first six albums. She actually only got

0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.080
<v Speaker 1>through four of them. And so everyone this year has

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>been speculating that we were going to get reputation your era. Yes,

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:24.520
<v Speaker 1>of course, so we were all waiting for a reputation announcement,

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 1>and instead she announced it she's actually bought back the

0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.680
<v Speaker 1>masters to those albums.

0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I do want to say though, that I mean, there

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.840
<v Speaker 2>is obviously with that statement, there's a real sense of

0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>artistic ownership and the owner of the intellectual property is

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.760
<v Speaker 2>now the creator of the song. And I think that

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>there's obviously a lot of merit and truth to that,

0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 2>but it can't be ignored that there is massive commercial

0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.600
<v Speaker 2>benefit to owning masters of songs as well.

0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.560
<v Speaker 1>I see what you're saying. You're saying like this is

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.000
<v Speaker 1>a business deal at the end of the day that

0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.439
<v Speaker 1>will result in great financial benefit for her.

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, it rightly ensures that she continues to profit from

0:13:58.920 --> 0:13:59.959
<v Speaker 2>her work.

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.680
<v Speaker 1>On which she would say is a great thing because

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:03.560
<v Speaker 1>she created.

0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 2>It, of course, and she would say that every artist

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.600
<v Speaker 2>should have that arrangement with their own songs. Yes, but

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>it's important to know, I mean, you know, Taylor Swift

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.319
<v Speaker 2>is one of the most successful business people on the planet,

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and this essentially now means that for the rest of

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.880
<v Speaker 2>her life she'll be able to license her own songs,

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 2>her masters, to movies, to new artists. I mean, think

0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.760
<v Speaker 2>about the way that Beatles songs are used sixty seventy

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.720
<v Speaker 2>years after they're recorded. So it's a major move in

0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the business of music as well as obviously a really

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 2>fulfilling move for her as an artist. Yeah, definitely, Billy,

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 2>thank you for that. That is a lovely thing to

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 2>listen to on a holiday Monday for those who are

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 2>on public holidays today. A really interesting story, but one

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 2>that is filled with a good news ending.

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, thank you for letting me yap for it. I

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 1>also want to say, I hope I haven't been too

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.640
<v Speaker 1>biased in my reporting at the Daily OLS. We obviously

0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 1>try to report the news without fear or favor.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, you really set that one up.

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I really. I don't know if I started it

0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 1>by really being unbiased.

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 2>No, it's fantastic. I mean it's good you went. You

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 2>couldn't possibly have been biased after you went to every

0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 2>single night a per Sydney tour and that is all

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:16.360
<v Speaker 2>we've got time for on this holiday Monday. We'll be

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.520
<v Speaker 2>back again tomorrow morning with another episode. Until then, have

0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 2>a beautiful day.

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Bye. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Arunda Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 1>acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the Gatighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 1>the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.