1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: once answers now. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Today something 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: different on the pod Now and then I'm invited onto 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: other people's podcasts to talk about topics of interest, and recently, 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: in fact, just last week, an episode dropped on The 8 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Parenting Couch with Rachel chap On Sarah Leve They do 9 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: a really great job. It's fun podcast to listen to 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: The Parenting Couch. We talked about bullying, and we haven't 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: done that here on the Happy Families podcast for quite 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: a while. We're usually talking about social media dramas and 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. The Parenting Couch with Rachel 14 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: and Sarah though a conversation about bullying. It was so 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: important that I wanted to bring you a snippet of 16 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: what we discussed. Our conversation went for about forty five 17 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: minutes fifty minutes. I'm just going to share an edited 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: version of that, but you might want to pop over 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: to The parent Couch and listen to the whole thing. 20 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: The link is in the show notes. We started our 21 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: conversation about bullying with some definitions and types of bullying 22 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: that our kids can encounter. Please enjoy my conversation with 23 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: Sarah and Rachel from the Parenting Couch. 24 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: A good place to start is to get I guess, 25 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: a definition or your way of defining what bullying actually is. 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: Because there's obviously a bit of teasing, you know, you 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: and I teasing each other at the beginning of this. 28 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: So I don't think that was bullying, but it would 29 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: be good to get your take on that before we 30 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: get started more on the subject. 31 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, so most people agree on the definition, and it's 32 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: really important to get this right because sometimes parents will say, 33 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: my child is being bullied, and they're not being bullied. 34 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: Someone was mean to them. So you can have someone 35 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: being mean and cruel and unkind and all those things 36 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily bullying. These one off instances or these 37 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: occasional someone pope fun or had a bit of a jab. 38 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: That's unkindness. It's still not okay. It's just respectful. It's 39 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: not okay. But bullying is. It has quite a specific definition, 40 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: and across most organizations and throughout academia worldwide, this is 41 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: a generally agreed on definition. I say generally because there's 42 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: always one or two academics who want to get really, 43 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: really fussy about things. But the general, the general agreement 44 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: around bullying is this bullying is repeated and intentional use 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: of words or actions against someone or against a group 46 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: of people because you want to hurt them, so you 47 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: try to cause distress, you try to risk their well being. 48 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: Usually we divided into four different types of bullying. There's 49 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: physical bullying. That's obviously were hitting and the pushing and 50 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: the shoving and the intimidating and the ripping someone's bags 51 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: off their shoulders and chucking them on the bag and 52 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: on the ground and kicking it. There's verbal bullying, which 53 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: can also be written, so I guess just the use 54 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: of woods. So it's name calling, it's insulting someone. I mean, 55 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: you've got kids who are, say, neurodivergent, and they get 56 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: called more names. Back when I was a kid, I don't, 57 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that this happens anymore. Maybe it does, 58 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: and I'm just too old and too far away from 59 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: it now. But when I was a kid going through 60 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: primary school, I remember kids that wore glasses were literally 61 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: called four eyes, and that was a denigrating insult. Kids 62 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,279 Speaker 1: that were carrying too much weight would be teased incessantly 63 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: about it, and so that's that verbal kind of bullying. 64 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: Then you've got social bullying, which is essentially ostracism when 65 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: you're deliberately excluding someone, when you're spreading rumors, when you're 66 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: sharing information and gossiping with an expectation that you are 67 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: going to cause a harmful effect on the other person. 68 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: You're going to cause reputational damage, You're going to impact 69 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: the ability that they have to be accepted socially, so 70 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: there are social costs. And then the last one cyberbullying, 71 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: which is pretty much any of the above and more 72 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: that could happen online of ironmobile device. That's how we 73 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: define bullying. So that was a long definition. I hope 74 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: that's okay, but it's important. 75 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, yeah. I mean, I guess what sparked this 76 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 3: particular conversation between and I like, we just we realize 77 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: we haven't done it an episode on bullying. And my 78 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: question is, first of all, how can we open up 79 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 3: the conversation with our children because they might not necessarily 80 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 3: they might be ashamed about it, they might be embarrassed. 81 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: And if you do find out, what steps do you 82 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 3: need to take to protect your child. Do you go 83 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 3: to the parent, do you go to the teacher, do 84 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: you go to the school? How do you handle it? 85 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: Let's say that you just want to check in with 86 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: your child. I'm an ambassador for aook Day. An iook 87 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: Day happens on a specific day every year, but the 88 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: message that they really promote is it's aook day every day. 89 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: We've got to be just checking in and asking those questions. Now, 90 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: now here's something curious. The more you ask people how 91 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: they're doing, the more they realize that they're not doing 92 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: that well most of the time. Like we all have 93 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: moments where we're awesome and then we're not, And our 94 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: emotions are like waves. They come in and they go out, 95 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: and we have one emotion, then we have another one, 96 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: and every single one of them is going to be different. Nevertheless, 97 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: when we say to our kids, how you're doing, is 98 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: everything okay? That can feel a little bit targeted. It 99 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: can feel like it's a little bit much. If you're 100 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: in a family where you're lucky enough to have beautiful, open, 101 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: generous sharing relationships, happy days, but unfortunately, too many families 102 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: don't have those relationships. So I've got a couple of recommendations. 103 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: The first one is there are going to be a 104 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: few moments every day where you can get your child 105 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: at a time where they are open, when they are relaxed, 106 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: and when they're willing to talk. And I reckon you 107 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: guys could tell me those times because you would have 108 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: them with your kids. It's usually late at night when 109 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: they're about to go to bed and you're laying down. Yeah, 110 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: I mean, they just when the kids open up. And 111 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: if you can have those check ins reasonably regularly, maybe 112 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: once a week, maybe twice a week, maybe once a 113 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: fortnight where you just there's downtime. A good mate of mind. Unfortunately, 114 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: he passed away a few years ago. It was about 115 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: fifty years old and he just died way too early 116 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: from a heart attack. But he used to sit on 117 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: the couch. Rob would sit on the couch in the 118 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: living room because he knew the kids would walk through 119 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: the living room and see him there and he would 120 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: not be watching TV, and he would not be reading 121 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: a book or the paper, and he would not be 122 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: staring at a phone. He'd just be sitting on the couch. 123 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 1: And he described it to me. He just said, invariably, 124 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: the kids will walk through the living room and they say, oh, hey, Dad, 125 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: what youre doing? And he'll say, I'm just sitting on 126 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: the couch and they would come and sit down with 127 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: him because they I don't know if you've noticed this, 128 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: but when you don't seem to have a whole lot 129 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: going on, the kids, they just gravitate to you. The 130 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: more targeted thing that you can do once the relationship 131 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: feels good. I mean, here's the thing. Kids fell love 132 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: t im And just like dollars are the currency of 133 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: our economy, connection is the currency of our relationships. And 134 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: so when our kids feel connected, they feel seen, heard 135 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: and value. That's when you can start asking some deeper 136 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: questions if you feel a need, so you might say 137 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: something like, hey, I listened to a podcast the other 138 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: day Rachel and Sarah and the Parenting Couch. They just 139 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: my favorite people listen to And they had this chat 140 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: with this guy and he was talking about bullying. Do 141 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: you see much of that happening at school? Like How's 142 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: because every school's got it? Do you see much of it? 143 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: And you need to be that direct. Every school has 144 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: got it. I don't know a single school in the 145 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: country that doesn't have some bullying at some point, and 146 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: so you just say, every school's got it, how much 147 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: do you see? Does it happen much at your school? 148 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: And you start really wide. Does it happen much at 149 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: your school? Does it happen much in your grade? Is 150 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: there a bunch of kids that are sort of more 151 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: likely to bully than others? Or is there I'm pretty chill? 152 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: And then you might say, what about in your friendship group? 153 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: Does it happen much there? Has it ever happened to you? 154 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: And so you can see how I've started really wide, 155 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: And so the kids feeling comfortable talking generally, and then 156 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: bit by bit, as the conversation moves along, you finally 157 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: get to them and and ideally, in a perfect world, 158 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: if trust has been established and they're enjoying the smoothie, 159 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: they'll say, yeah, actually, something did happen to me a 160 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. And that's the bit where you 161 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: jump across the table, grab them by the collar and 162 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: say why didn't you tell me? No, you don't really 163 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: do that, grab them and wrap them up in. 164 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: Ye yeah, never let them leave the house. 165 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty four, so we've got to be very 166 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: careful these days. We've got to bubble wrap our kids. 167 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: And so it's this very gentle conversation where we're inviting 168 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: them in, we're just chatting with them about things. When 169 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: we get closer and closer and closer, Rachel, I guess 170 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: the other to sort of wrap up this part of 171 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: the question that you ask. The other thing that I 172 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: really like to do and encourage is to say to 173 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: kids something like, what would you do if you saw someone, 174 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: like just a random at school bullying another kid? What 175 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: would you do? Because there's all this talk about being 176 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: an upstander not a bystander, would you would you actually 177 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: have the guts to step in? Like? What if it 178 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: was a boy doing it to another boy? And I 179 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: don't know, Let's say your child's in grade four and 180 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: this bully is in grade six, for example, what would 181 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: you do then? Like, because it's really hard to be 182 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: an upstander and say to a grade six boy stop 183 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: it when you're only in grade three and he's twice 184 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: your size you how do you deal with that? And 185 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: by asking the kids that a couple of really interesting 186 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: things happen, Number One, it gives them. It gives them 187 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: the opportunity to pause and think. Because we're always lecturing them, 188 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: and they start to figure stuff out, they start to 189 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: figure out what kind of a person they are. They 190 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: also get a bit of a dry run, like they 191 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: get to practice safely with you in the living room 192 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: or on the couch before it really does happen, so 193 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: they can go, yeah, this is what I think I 194 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: would do, and when they give an answer, you can say, 195 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's say your Grade three boy says, well, 196 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: I've been doing jiu jitsu for the last three months, 197 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: and I think that I could take their kneecaps out. 198 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: And you might say, well, I guess that's one option. 199 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: How might that go? And generalmen like you don't have 200 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: to tell them that they're wrong. You can get really 201 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: creative with this and say, well, let's explore that further. 202 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: How does that help, what are the risks, what other 203 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: options are there? And so we kind of get to 204 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: play around with ideas with them until they start to 205 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: zero in on the response. 206 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 3: So you've found out that your child has been bullied 207 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 3: and they've opened up to you, and you've you've you've 208 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 3: used the techniques that you've that you've suggested. What next? 209 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it might very depend on if it's 210 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 3: a young primary school or if it's a high school, 211 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 3: do you go to the do you speak to the 212 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 3: school about it? What if you're actually really good friends 213 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 3: with the parent. Sorry I'm actually diverging and adding extra questions, 214 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 3: but you know, like but like if you if you 215 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 3: know that you actually know the parent, do you send 216 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: them a message on Facebook? Or like, how do you 217 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 3: handle this? Because you're you're the big mama bear and 218 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 3: you want to look after your child and they're so sad. 219 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So the first thing, the first thing that 220 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: you've got to do is regulate. Just just get yourself 221 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: under control. If you go all Mama bear or Papa bear, 222 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: if you start blowing up, then you're just going to 223 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: start bullying everybody else and it gets really really messy. 224 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: As a general rule, I don't encourage parents to contact 225 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: other parents and make an accusation that your child's bullying 226 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: my child. It rarely goes, well, it's really really unlikely. Now, 227 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: if you've got evidence, let's say there's some video footage, 228 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: or let's say you've got some text messages or some 229 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: Insta chat content or whatever. If you've got evidence and 230 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: you've got a relationship with these people. Then it may 231 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: in some cases, and I really want to put big 232 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: flashing lights around some it may in some cases be 233 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: appropriate to contact them. I'll share a personal example here. 234 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: One of my daughters was having a text chat on 235 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: whatever platform. It was maybe eight years ago, five years 236 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: ago or something like that. I think she and the 237 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: boys she was talking to, I think they were in 238 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: about grade eight, maybe grade nine. And he made some 239 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: inappropriate comments, and then he made some inappropriate solicitations, really 240 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: really quite explicit, and really just my daughter was like, 241 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: hang on, are we friends? Like I thought we knew 242 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: each other, We've known each other since primary school, and 243 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: they putting this on me like she was just she 244 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: was shocked, and she came straight out to me and 245 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: Kylie and said, can you just have a look at this. 246 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what to do. So from that 247 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: point of view, we were really grateful. Right, here's a 248 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: child who's willing to talk to us about a challenging situation. 249 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: So I took the screenshots, and because I knew those parents, 250 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: and I didn't know them well, but I knew them 251 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: well enough, and so I sent them a text message 252 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: and I said, Hi, let's say it was Rachel. Hi, Rachel, 253 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: it's justin Coilson here. Something's just come up tonight involving 254 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: our kids. That's a little bit tricky, and I wanted 255 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: to bring you in on it, but it is pretty sensitive. 256 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: Is now a good time? And so by framing it 257 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: that way and by not blaming anybody, but just saying 258 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: there's something going on between our kids, it's a little 259 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: bit tricky. I wanted to bring you in. Is that okay? 260 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: And I got an instant response absolutely, yeah. What is 261 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: it that you want to talk? Do you want to 262 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: talk or text? How do you want to do this? 263 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: And I said, I said to them, I'm going to 264 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: send you a couple of screenshots from my daughter's phone. 265 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: Once you've had a look at them, if you just 266 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: want to come back to me and tell me what 267 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: you think would be best in terms of how we proceed. 268 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: So what I'm doing here is I'm really kind of 269 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: just putting it on them and saying I'm concerned. What 270 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 1: do you think? So I sent the screenshots. Through the 271 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: screenshots spoke for themselves. I didn't need to do anything else. 272 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: And this is the other thing, right, when you've got evidence, 273 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: when it's incontrovertible. You're on pretty sure footing, and that's 274 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: why I felt confident that in some circumstances like this, 275 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: I could get away with it. They came back to 276 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: me and they said, we're horrified, we're dealing with it. 277 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Will be in touch. And about a week later they 278 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: told us about the conversations. They actually asked if they 279 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: could get some more advice because they knew who I 280 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: wasn't what I did. So that ended up being helpful. 281 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 3: And as much as I can, I want to get 282 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 3: on the wrong side. 283 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: And those parents wonderful and then I was able to 284 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: talk to them about, well, here's your next conversation, in 285 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 1: your next conversation, and that was the end of the 286 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: relationship that my daughter had with their son. That was 287 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: it broke her trust. Nevertheless, they had some good learnings 288 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: together and he saw the ramifications of it. So a 289 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: long way of saying, my general recommendation is don't contact 290 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: the parents, but in some circumstances such as those where 291 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: there is in controvertible evidence and you can ask them 292 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: what they think the next steps should be perfect framing 293 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: it the right way, that's helpful In terms of other 294 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: situations like let's say you're in a situation where you 295 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: don't know the parents or you don't have evidence of 296 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: what's going on, and you're just trying to protect your child. 297 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: This is one of those things where the severity of 298 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: what's occurring, the regularity and consistency of what's occurring, the 299 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: resources that you have available, all of these things will 300 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: play a part. Okay, if there's ongoing bullying, not that 301 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: we're trying to entrap other kids here, but if there's 302 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: ongoing bulling, then you want to be able to find evidence, 303 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: and you want to ask your child, how can we 304 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: get some evidence here? I would recommend if it's happening 305 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: at school, or if it's happening at whatever the sports 306 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: activity is that you do in the afternoon, or maybe 307 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: you've got a church group or something, whatever it is 308 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: that you do. Wherever it's happening, there is value in 309 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: talking to the other adults, talking to people who have 310 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: some level of accountability here, That is useful. However, once again, 311 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: I strongly discourage those adults, those leaders, those teachers, whoever 312 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: they are stepping in and saying right, well, I'll fix 313 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: this now, because all that happens is we pushed underground instead, 314 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: a concerted effort where there are quiet conversations tend to 315 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: be much more helpful. So maybe the school teacher sits 316 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: down and tries to understand the context and explores, explains 317 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: and empowers. Maybe there are some minor adjustments that can 318 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: be made at school so that the child, your child 319 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: feels safe and those bullies are in a different a 320 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: different place now, whether it's changing class or mixing up 321 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: time tables or whatever, coming up with constructive solutions will 322 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: always be the preference. Then again, if you have really 323 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: serious cases of bullying, you've got situations where children's mental 324 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: health is absolutely getting hammered, where there's physical harm, violence threats, 325 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: those kinds of things, then intervention is necessary. As a parent, 326 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: you've got one central job, and that is to protect 327 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: your kids. I'm not saying that to throw any shade 328 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: on families where tragedy has occurred. I'm not saying they 329 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: didn't protect their kids. What I'm saying is you just 330 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: do whatever you've got to do. 331 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: Every situation is so different and unique, and you've been 332 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: amazing as always, and we are so grateful to have 333 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 2: you on once again, and we will be getting you 334 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: back as we've talked about, but this is such a 335 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: big subject. It's very on topic. Of course at the moment, 336 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: I think it always has been. I think now obviously 337 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: with social media and other things, it is just right 338 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: and you know what you've just said, and to have 339 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: this conversation is really really important. 340 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: So thank you for your time. 341 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: Now. 342 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: I love hanging out with you guys. I wish we 343 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: had more time. That this was fun. That's just a 344 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: sneak peek of a much longer conversation that I had 345 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: with Rachel and Sarah from the Parenting Couch. You can 346 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: find more about their podcast in the show notes. Please 347 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: click and go over and have a listen to the 348 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: whole thing. Thanks so much for listening, though. The Happy 349 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. 350 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: If you want more information about making your family happier, 351 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: send us to your questions happy families dot com dot you, 352 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: or visit us at our website and social media pages. 353 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families