Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week. They might welcome back
Speaker 1: guys to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and on
Speaker 1: this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest
Speaker 1: players in television.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great questions. The show's about the game. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of great television out there in Australia.
Speaker 1: But I've also got to go behind the scenes with writers.
Speaker 1: The truth is, when I started writing it, it wasn't
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the news and casting agents
Speaker 1: they know from a casting point of view what they need,
Speaker 1: and editors because that's what we do as editors where storytellers.
Speaker 1: Not to forget some incredible executive producers who are making
Speaker 1: some of the best TV in Australia. I have been
Speaker 1: on the program since the beginning and it's kind of
Speaker 1: in my DNA. So thanks for joining me each week
Speaker 1: and I hope the podcast continues to give you real
Speaker 1: insight into the magic of television today. On the podcast,
Speaker 1: I have Adrian Swift, the head of content production and
Speaker 1: Development at Channel nine. I've kept in touch with Adrian
Speaker 1: over the years and what I've always loved about this
Speaker 1: man is his storytelling ability. Not only does he understand
Speaker 1: the fabric of engaging an audience with shows that he makes,
Speaker 1: He's one of those characters that comes into your life
Speaker 1: who draws you in with this infectious warmth, generosity and intelligence.
Speaker 1: I mean I personally could talk to this man all day.
Speaker 1: So who better to unpack and explain the current series
Speaker 1: of marit At First Sight made by Endemol Shine Australia.
Speaker 1: We will have a look at his interpretation of the
Speaker 1: show and of course look back at the history of
Speaker 1: Australia's relationship with this widely popular and a times controversial program.
Speaker 1: We will discuss the importance of both good and bad
Speaker 1: critiques of the series, why the show still rates in
Speaker 1: the current landscape of Freedoware television, and I will ask
Speaker 1: about the future of Love Island, Australia, snack Masters and
Speaker 1: parental guidance. So, without further ado, I'm going to bring Adrian.
Speaker 2: Into the chat.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy this episode as I welcome one
Speaker 1: of Australia's leading content creators, Adrian Swift, to TV Reload.
Speaker 2: There should be naysa's, there should be people who question
Speaker 2: it and challenging I guess you get something a little
Speaker 2: bit skeptical about the entire experiment. Every match we make
Speaker 2: with the absolute intention that it should work.
Speaker 3: You might like things one way and I like them
Speaker 3: the other way, but my way has.
Speaker 1: To be the right way.
Speaker 2: The sort of things they're writing about the show are
Speaker 2: starting to hurt the people who work on the show.
Speaker 1: Why would you put yourself up for this knowing that
Speaker 1: you could get your heartbroken.
Speaker 2: We can press time that we certainly never misrepresented you
Speaker 2: or what you said.
Speaker 3: For many men in relationships, that can be a superpower
Speaker 3: showing vulnerability.
Speaker 2: We thought he'd be to self aware. Well, in fact,
Speaker 2: exactly the opposite was true, and he became the biggest
Speaker 2: character in the show.
Speaker 1: Hey Adrian, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm fabulous, Thank you.
Speaker 1: Well, you must be happy with the numbers for Married
Speaker 1: at first sight. I have to ask you the first question,
Speaker 1: which is what was the feeling at Channel nine this morning?
Speaker 2: Oh? Good, really good. You know. The hardest thing in
Speaker 2: the world at the moment is we've had slightly officially
Speaker 2: inflated numbers over the last two years because of coronavirus
Speaker 2: and lockdowns, So it's kind of skewed the numbers a
Speaker 2: little bit, particularly as the overnights are becoming less important,
Speaker 2: and things like catch Up plus fourteen plus twelve, all
Speaker 2: that kind of malarchy is becoming more important. So last
Speaker 2: night's overnights were really good, particularly given the competitive environment.
Speaker 2: You know, it was really important for us, you know,
Speaker 2: to come out and top with two great franchises, The
Speaker 2: Voice in the Biber and look, it's a show we love,
Speaker 2: it's a show we believe in. It's a show that
Speaker 2: we knew this season would be really great. And that's
Speaker 2: the worst kind of way to go into an evening
Speaker 2: when your show's on air, because if it doesn't rate,
Speaker 2: it'll just kill you. And when it does rate and
Speaker 2: you know, the audience turns up, it makes you feel
Speaker 2: good about the world.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that maths? You know, that's the
Speaker 1: way we abbreviate it. Why do you think it resonates
Speaker 1: with its audience so clearly?
Speaker 2: I think because all life is there. It often gets
Speaker 2: kind of characterized as this sort of drama thing that
Speaker 2: we put people together who don't like each other, and
Speaker 2: you know, watch back and sit back and watch the
Speaker 2: sparks fly. That's not the intention at all the show.
Speaker 2: And we always say this and we reset it at the
Speaker 2: beginning of every season. It's a show about love, and
Speaker 2: to an extent, the love gives you an excuse to
Speaker 2: look at the drama. But every match we make with
Speaker 2: the absolute intention that it should work. That either we
Speaker 2: give people what they say they want, or when the
Speaker 2: experts look at those people and analyze while the relationships
Speaker 2: have gone wrong, we give them someone that is at
Speaker 2: odds with what they normally choose, with a view that
Speaker 2: potentially that's the relationship that can survive and flourish. Now,
Speaker 2: what does that do well? Along the way? That brings
Speaker 2: out every aspect of human emotion and relationships. This year,
Speaker 2: we've got a big storyline about racism, We've got a
Speaker 2: big storyline about male vulnerability, and none of that's ever
Speaker 2: discussed in scientific terms. It's all seen through the lens
Speaker 2: of genuine human relationship. And I reckon, I well, I reckon.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty certain that's the core of the end of
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: I think as long as the people struggle to find love,
Speaker 1: this show has a place on their television Because while
Speaker 1: the situations might be a bit out there, sometimes I
Speaker 1: think that people feel I think people feel seen by
Speaker 1: this show.
Speaker 2: I hope so I hope there's nothing that happened with
Speaker 2: the show that I don't recognize it at some point
Speaker 2: has haven't in my life or order of my friends,
Speaker 2: and it's not. You know, we've got an absolute, ironclad
Speaker 2: rule which often completely messes it up. That is, we
Speaker 2: don't make anything happen, and if something happens that we
Speaker 2: don't want in the show or that we have to
Speaker 2: put it in. So we don't make anything up and
Speaker 2: we don't excize anything. And you know, you remember a
Speaker 2: couple of years back, we had that toothbrush in the
Speaker 2: toilet incident. Wow, David has.
Speaker 1: Used and his toothbrush as a toilet scouer.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone deserves that, to be honest to
Speaker 2: there as much as I despise Hailey. Now normally we
Speaker 2: as we go, oh no, we can't, that's just not
Speaker 2: but it became so material to what happened between the
Speaker 2: various people in the show, you just couldn't take it out.
Speaker 2: And I think it was just one of those examples
Speaker 2: where you know, some of the affairs, sometimes not some,
Speaker 2: almost all of them. We don't condone any of that stuff.
Speaker 2: We certainly don't make it happen and a lot of
Speaker 2: the times we wish it. Almost all the time we
Speaker 2: wish it wouldn't happen, But when it does, it's kind
Speaker 2: of what we call a wind up mouse show. You
Speaker 2: wind them mice mouse up and you let it go
Speaker 2: and it goes where it goes. And the skill of
Speaker 2: the people at end, the mal Shinnes strategy who make
Speaker 2: it Tara McWilliams is the ep is that they follow
Speaker 2: those stories and then tell those stories beautifully.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think it could be the messiness,
Speaker 1: but I think that it's a combination of the fact
Speaker 1: that the messiness is there, which represents us in real life.
Speaker 1: But I think also this show has heart at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, and that's why people return to it.
Speaker 2: And look, I think it does have heart, and we
Speaker 2: like the people we put in the show, and you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes they get frustrated with us. Particularly is reality televisions
Speaker 2: are an odd beast. And then you'll know this very
Speaker 2: well from your time in the genre. Television holds a
Speaker 2: mirror up to you and you often don't like what
Speaker 2: you see. I'm not suggesting you didn't like what you saw,
Speaker 2: but all of the people don't. And it's quite a
Speaker 2: harsh you know, we all pass the mirror and as
Speaker 2: we go we pull a little bit of a face,
Speaker 2: we suck our stomach in a little bit, we put
Speaker 2: our shoulders back. Television doesn't do that. It shows you
Speaker 2: as you really are. And a lot of people find
Speaker 2: that very difficult, and they keep saying to us, but
Speaker 2: I'm not really like that. You edited me to make
Speaker 2: me look like that, and we go, well, no, we didn't.
Speaker 2: We can press time, but we certainly never misrepresented you
Speaker 2: or what you said, or how you felt or and
Speaker 2: that's where it gets difficult. But we try and do everything,
Speaker 2: as you said, with heart, and we try and do
Speaker 2: everything to genuinely represent the relationships, and the relationships that
Speaker 2: power the show are the ones where where there is love.
Speaker 2: Our perspective Maths is always from the end of the
Speaker 2: table where the people in love are looking down the
Speaker 2: other end of the table at the people bickering.
Speaker 1: Don't you love it when people are telling you that
Speaker 1: they're not something, and they're always demonstrating it while they're
Speaker 1: telling you that they're not And.
Speaker 2: It's hard, and it's hard because you want to kind
Speaker 2: of go. There are times when I know Tara does
Speaker 2: this from time to which he just takes people aside
Speaker 2: and says, I'm not sure you really realize how you're
Speaker 2: coming across. And yeah, I think that's sometimes a very
Speaker 2: helpful lesson because I don't think people understand how. You know,
Speaker 2: they say television puts on ten pounds, Well it does
Speaker 2: that as well, but it also sees you with unerring clarity,
Speaker 2: and often the people who play in this space don't
Speaker 2: like what they see.
Speaker 1: We all want to go on reality television though, to
Speaker 1: show people the best traits that we have, Like we
Speaker 1: want to be loved, we want to be adored.
Speaker 2: You know, we all believe we're fabulous, but we all
Speaker 2: believe we're.
Speaker 1: Some of us are Adrian, And I know I've always.
Speaker 2: Said you're fabulous as well. You know, you know your
Speaker 2: one big brother mate that qualifies you as a fabulous
Speaker 2: that's the thing you put on your CV and say,
Speaker 2: I want to be brother ergo I'm fatulated.
Speaker 1: Well, you know that there's been some naysayers about this show,
Speaker 1: you know, over time, But you know what's really funny
Speaker 1: to me is no matter what rain has fallen, people
Speaker 1: come back to this show. And I think that says
Speaker 1: a lot about the people who make the noise on
Speaker 1: social media that could be negative that they probably don't
Speaker 1: and probably never would have watched the show in the
Speaker 1: first place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, you know, all publicity is good publicity.
Speaker 2: I guess. Look, here's the thing, mate, and I really
Speaker 2: do mean this, and it's not a you'll forgive how
Speaker 2: slightly vomited inducing. What I'm about to say is it's
Speaker 2: a really well made show. It's a really well made show.
Speaker 2: The people who work on it some of the best
Speaker 2: producers in the country. They can tell a story. It's
Speaker 2: made with love and it's made with nuance, and you know,
Speaker 2: the music's all beautifully composed and the camera crews are
Speaker 2: get some of the best shots in Television's why our
Speaker 2: promos is so good. And you know, when we put
Speaker 2: it on in the UK, it was the highest rating
Speaker 2: show outside of Love Ireland on a Well, I Love
Speaker 2: Island's only four to ninety two, but it was the
Speaker 2: highest rating buy on one. So the point is that
Speaker 2: it's not just Australians who love seeing other Australians screeching
Speaker 2: at each other. Actually, when the world sits down to
Speaker 2: watch this show, they love it. And I'm immensely proud
Speaker 2: of it as a bit of telly, and there should
Speaker 2: be naysays, there should be people who question it and
Speaker 2: challenge it. But can I tell it from the inside,
Speaker 2: we love it and we believe in it.
Speaker 1: Well, how do you shut that noise out? Though? Because
Speaker 1: I mean, you yourself are so passionate about television. It's
Speaker 1: the very fiber of while we're having a conversation today
Speaker 1: is because you exube. You know your love and passion
Speaker 1: for this show. And I mean, you wouldn't do what
Speaker 1: you do, working for nine and pushing the show as
Speaker 1: much as you do if you didn't believe in it.
Speaker 1: I know that from my friendship that I have with you.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, we all get hit with
Speaker 1: the noise of things that sometimes can.
Speaker 2: Be you don't shut it out. I just had a
Speaker 2: massive blue with someone at night who shall remain nameless,
Speaker 2: about a journal who shall remain nameless, who just writes
Speaker 2: the worst thing things about the show. And the nine
Speaker 2: person said, no, no, we need to we need we
Speaker 2: want people writing about them, no matter how negative. And
Speaker 2: I said, can I tell you the sort of things
Speaker 2: they're writing about the show are starting to hurt the
Speaker 2: people who work on the show I'm having produces with
Speaker 2: you say, why does he say such terrible things? And
Speaker 2: I've got to talk them down. I've got to talk
Speaker 2: them off the ledge and that so you don't shout
Speaker 2: it out and it really, you know, stuff like that where,
Speaker 2: particularly when it's ill informed, uninformed, it drives your bananas,
Speaker 2: because you know, I sit in ned at sweets with
Speaker 2: these people who make it, and they're worrying about every
Speaker 2: frame and every bit of it, how they've told the
Speaker 2: story and when we put it to our one, we're
Speaker 2: proud of every bit of it. And you know, you
Speaker 2: have people throwing rock. I don't worry less about the
Speaker 2: Twitter verse. It's when people with real sort of political
Speaker 2: agendas have a go that's when I get a little
Speaker 2: bit ropey about the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But I have to say to you, like, I've worked
Speaker 1: with people who are TV commentators, and I found that
Speaker 1: the core of a journalist who is continuously writing something
Speaker 1: negative that says something more about them than it necessarily
Speaker 1: does about the show. And the closer I got to it,
Speaker 1: the more I realized that it came from jealousy of
Speaker 1: wishing that they could be a part of a universe
Speaker 1: like this, so in reverse it can be a backwards compliment.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that helps you when producers come
Speaker 1: to you like that.
Speaker 2: But now it's interesting you say that the best example
Speaker 2: of that actually is Michael Dato from The Age and
Speaker 2: The City Morning Herald, who is both probably the best
Speaker 2: television commentator in Australia lives in la at the moment,
Speaker 2: but also was fundamentally behind the relaunch of Wentworth, so
Speaker 2: never had any of those jealousies. So it was both actually,
Speaker 2: in the terms you just described, was both a creator
Speaker 2: and an observer, and that's probably wise. Observation is so good.
Speaker 1: Well, there really isn't any other free to a show
Speaker 1: that draws the numbers like this. Do you think that
Speaker 1: other shows maybe have lost out on the numbers because
Speaker 1: over time we've overthought it, or we've overcooked it, or
Speaker 1: maybe it's a little too manufactured.
Speaker 2: The too manufactured thing is that is the great bugbear
Speaker 2: of all of us. You know, there's always that very
Speaker 2: fine line between and some things that are absolutely real
Speaker 2: look manufactured, and some things that are manufactured look absolutely real,
Speaker 2: and you've got to excite them because they're manufactured. So
Speaker 2: it's really difficult it's a difficult line to warp. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think I think you've got to be incredibly nuanced
Speaker 2: about it. I think you've got to be and you've
Speaker 2: got to love the show, and you've got to understand
Speaker 2: what the show is trying to say, and I think
Speaker 2: you've got to be I think I think what people
Speaker 2: get a little bit lost in some of these shows
Speaker 2: is particularly when you're remaking formats from other territories. But
Speaker 2: I quite understand the DNA of the show. The great
Speaker 2: thing about Married is we co developed it with Animal Shine,
Speaker 2: and we both understand. It's a really really close working relationship.
Speaker 2: And I think we both we both understand the DNA
Speaker 2: of the show, and that's what I think really helps
Speaker 2: us to kind of keep it authentic and keep and
Speaker 2: change it from season season, move it along a little
Speaker 2: bit so that every season you're not seeing the same
Speaker 2: old tropes in the same old way.
Speaker 1: I think that that's a really good thing to say,
Speaker 1: though it is because how do you stop remaking the
Speaker 1: same thing? I mean, this show has been on television,
Speaker 1: this is its ninth season. How do you avoid casting
Speaker 1: people that are just trying to recreate something they've already
Speaker 1: seen on the show, like, how do you keep it
Speaker 1: fresh and avoid finding people who just want to recreate
Speaker 1: a moment?
Speaker 2: Well, and you've got to find people who just don't
Speaker 2: want to don't want to be on television. You know,
Speaker 2: there's got to be some genuine desire to play in
Speaker 2: this space. You know, the best thing that ever happened
Speaker 2: to Maps was Tinder, because everyone on Tinder, they just
Speaker 2: hate it, and it's so commoditized dating and relationships that,
Speaker 2: you know, the single most common phrase utter in an
Speaker 2: audition for Maps is I've been on Tinder. I've gone
Speaker 2: on a thousand dates and all of that implies and
Speaker 2: I've found nothing. Even if I don't understand this, even
Speaker 2: if I'm terrified of the consequences of being on television,
Speaker 2: it's got to be better than that.
Speaker 1: Do you go out on dates, Yeah, you do.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely an active single woman. But the constant disappointment,
Speaker 3: it's been hard.
Speaker 2: And look, you know, we get it wrong all the time.
Speaker 2: You know, we get people on who we thought were
Speaker 2: one thing and turn out to be something completely different.
Speaker 2: Often that's a good thing. Often the ones, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the biggest characters on Maps where people we
Speaker 2: thought were kind of be characters, and basically we're on
Speaker 2: because they've matched perfectly with someone who we liked. But
Speaker 2: they are you know, we didn't think they'd be They
Speaker 2: didn't we thought they'd make average television, but they were
Speaker 2: such a good match that it didn't matter, and they
Speaker 2: turned out to be the best characters we've ever had.
Speaker 1: You know, you put people into real environments and allow
Speaker 1: them to be real, and sometimes they will surprise you.
Speaker 1: But that is that is life, my friend, you know.
Speaker 2: Oh, and it's it's what makes the show great. The
Speaker 2: best maps where people did things we never expected, and
Speaker 2: personality is grew and changed, and we cast them as
Speaker 2: one thing. You know. They came into the show because
Speaker 2: we thought, okay, they're they're you know, they're lonely and
Speaker 2: they're this, and they probably need this sort of person
Speaker 2: and they cut and they turn into something completely different
Speaker 2: during the course of the show, and oftentimes it's their
Speaker 2: partner that brings that out in them. So HI, look
Speaker 2: at it. Don't ever think people obviously it's brilliantly you know,
Speaker 2: you masterful. No, we put people in the front end
Speaker 2: and we stand back and we've got the best cameramen
Speaker 2: and the best editors and the best storytellers, and we
Speaker 2: just let it happen and every year it surprises us.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Before I sat down with you to have this chat today,
Speaker 1: I did a lot of research about, like what are
Speaker 1: people saying about reality television at the moment? I found
Speaker 1: this one question in the industry that just kept coming up,
Speaker 1: and that was how much longer can strippt reality last
Speaker 1: on freeedoware television? I mean, nowadays, five hundred thousand is
Speaker 1: a fantastic number. You know, will we be saying two
Speaker 1: hundred thousand is a great number? Or do you think
Speaker 1: that something is going to have to change in the
Speaker 1: landscape of stripped reality?
Speaker 2: But that's a professional TV question. That is a typical
Speaker 2: professional TV question. I would argue that writers in Hollywood,
Speaker 2: three or four years into the advent of television, I
Speaker 2: Love Lucy, the Honeymooners, f Troop, We're going, when's the
Speaker 2: sitcom bubble going to burst? Well, the answer to that
Speaker 2: would have been forty five years later, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of you know, at the end of Friends and Seinfeld,
Speaker 2: the truth of these things is that you know it's
Speaker 2: not and you quoted those numbers. The reality is by
Speaker 2: the time you look at it. I was just doing
Speaker 2: a bit of analysis on the block the other day.
Speaker 2: By the time you roll in the overnights plus seven
Speaker 2: plus fourteen live and b VOD Live, bvod and be
Speaker 2: proper catch up bevot, you're kind of back at one
Speaker 2: point three to one point four that we were out
Speaker 2: five years ago. So yeah, the difficult for us is
Speaker 2: monetizing it over all WS platforms, But that's the story
Speaker 2: question for another day. So I'm not worried about total audience.
Speaker 2: So that's you know, the audiences are there for these things.
Speaker 2: True reality is great for commercial networks because it's really
Speaker 2: easy to make and contain and you know, because I
Speaker 2: mean I used to get a content of the ABC.
Speaker 2: We had a different chine of Real Night Jesus. That's
Speaker 2: hard to manage and hard to promo. But by the
Speaker 2: same turkele, we try and break that paradigm, you know,
Speaker 2: we in the past at nine we've often tried to
Speaker 2: move away fromship reality, and the audience have told us
Speaker 2: completely unequivocally that they want shows that can carry them
Speaker 2: over to or three nights a week. And who am
Speaker 2: I to tell you? What does that card have?
Speaker 1: Also really interesting is there's a real drawback I think
Speaker 1: to Free to wear. When Maths and the Block is
Speaker 1: on television. You are in a competitive market where the
Speaker 1: streaming services are taking up eyes and ears, but Channel
Speaker 1: nine has ownership over to very must watched and compelling
Speaker 1: programs of the year that people have to come back
Speaker 1: because that content isn't being seen. You know, is that
Speaker 1: something that's consciously in your mind that you have to
Speaker 1: create something these days to make compelling viewing to stop
Speaker 1: people from going back to these or starting up at
Speaker 1: a streaming service.
Speaker 2: Well completely, But look what's happening with the Netflix share
Speaker 2: price at the moment. You know, there's a there's been
Speaker 2: four or five articles the last week about the streaming
Speaker 2: bubbles first, and that's not true. The stream bubble hasn't
Speaker 2: burst at all. And Stands going great guns and you
Speaker 2: know you was in Gold just released and just been
Speaker 2: They've got so much good content and they're moving. Netflix,
Speaker 2: Paramount plus Stand are all moving into the kind of
Speaker 2: areas where we are, you know, into in versions of
Speaker 2: strip reality. They're doing it once a week.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: RuPaul on Stand is a good example of that, is
Speaker 2: ru Paul strip Reality. Yeah, it is it's knockout competition,
Speaker 2: it's it's classics, stript reality. So the streamers are moving there.
Speaker 2: I think, let me offer this. I might be completely wrong,
Speaker 2: but this is certainly how I have observed it. People
Speaker 2: at those junction points, So call it seven seven thirty week.
Speaker 2: They're coming out of news, which frequently in Australia is
Speaker 2: a massive national obsession as opposed to other countries where
Speaker 2: it isn't so much. And then they move into our
Speaker 2: seven thirty shows, which they tend to stay with over
Speaker 2: the week, and then you know, the quarter to nine
Speaker 2: and they then go to the streamers, at which point
Speaker 2: they spend half an hour looking at the EPG and
Speaker 2: then go to bed. So I think streaming to this
Speaker 2: point anyway, streaming has been a very different consumption model.
Speaker 2: I think if you go to streaming, you commit to
Speaker 2: something and you watch something. I think with something like maths,
Speaker 2: it's something where you can be sitting on the couch
Speaker 2: watching it with your partner and one of your kids
Speaker 2: can come past and be absorbed by fifteen minutes and
Speaker 2: keep going, and you guys can talk about the relationship
Speaker 2: and what's happening without missing some tiny nuance of a
Speaker 2: morally ambiguous character in a streamed Netflix drama. So it's
Speaker 2: a different I think Free Toware is still a different
Speaker 2: consumption model. And we'll all find our place. It's a
Speaker 2: matter of where that place is. You know, we've got
Speaker 2: a couple of couple we've got we've got radio stations
Speaker 2: and newspapers and you know newspapers the finn the City
Speaker 2: Warning here or of the Age. They've absolutely found their
Speaker 2: place in the media consumption environment. Three ow two GB
Speaker 2: absolutely found their place, and Free Towear and the streamers
Speaker 2: will also find their place. I reckon the hard thing
Speaker 2: is if you're if you're just a TV network, that's
Speaker 2: the I reckon, that's going to be one of the
Speaker 2: hardest things in the world.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And just sort of to play back on
Speaker 1: something you said. They're an observation from my behalf is
Speaker 1: the nostalgia of wanting to watch something on the night
Speaker 1: like Sunday night viewing. I mean, the block and maps
Speaker 1: do so well and there's something very Australian family being
Speaker 1: able to sit down and chew the fat over a
Speaker 1: well made, glossy show on a Sunday night, and I
Speaker 1: think that's something nine does better. Than I think anyone.
Speaker 1: And I'm not just saying that because you're sitting there.
Speaker 1: I know that because that's what people tell me, and
Speaker 1: that's how I feel.
Speaker 2: Thank you God, look at what Look I'll never tire
Speaker 2: of hearing it. We do think that those shared experiences
Speaker 2: are important and we all have them. Big Brother was
Speaker 2: a great example of that. On a celebrity on Channel
Speaker 2: ten is a great example of that. You know, the Voice,
Speaker 2: not this last one that's just gone out, but the
Speaker 2: voice of the Voice proper was a good example of that.
Speaker 2: Those big things that happen live or as live that
Speaker 2: everyone can talk about. And you know, when you create
Speaker 2: those moments when you know everyone's talking about about mass
Speaker 2: or you know everyone's talking about the block, it's just
Speaker 2: as you know, for the people who work in television,
Speaker 2: that's just that's what you want to achieve.
Speaker 1: Last question for Maths for you was what were the
Speaker 1: notes coming out of last season? Was there anything that
Speaker 1: you guys wanted to do differently?
Speaker 2: I think here, I think last year we saw we
Speaker 2: saw the problems created. We've got one really polarizing character.
Speaker 2: So we had bryceon Melissa, who the world saw them
Speaker 2: as one thing and they didn't see them as that
Speaker 2: at all, and we didn't see them as that at all,
Speaker 2: and the world sort of saw him as gas lighting
Speaker 2: or and mistreating or actually on the inside, what we
Speaker 2: saw and what they felt, and you'll note that you
Speaker 2: know they've got twins and are getting married, what they
Speaker 2: felt on the inside was a rated It was very
Speaker 2: much founded on genuine love and respect. But it became
Speaker 2: so polarizing in the show that it sort of sucked
Speaker 2: a lot of the energy out of the other things,
Speaker 2: the other issues in the show. And every show should
Speaker 2: be layered, you know, it should multiple issues, multiple characters
Speaker 2: you like, multiple characters you dislike. But in the end,
Speaker 2: it all kind of coalesced around around Bryce, and that
Speaker 2: was particularly wasn't good for the show. It wasn't good
Speaker 2: for him and Melissa.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's good notes going into it. So
Speaker 1: you know, you just make sure that you cast a
Speaker 1: thousand Bryce's or you know, how do you what.
Speaker 2: Are you going to do? Well, No, you don't know
Speaker 2: if that's going to happen, don't We never knew that
Speaker 2: was going to happen. We didn't. Well, in fact, we
Speaker 2: never thought that was going to happen. Bryce was one
Speaker 2: of the laugh again, a great example of someone one
Speaker 2: of the last people we cast. We thought Melissa was fantastic.
Speaker 2: Bryce and Melissa were a great match, so we kind
Speaker 2: of went okay. Bryce was a radio guy actually, and
Speaker 2: and you know, we tend to avoid people in the
Speaker 2: media because they're too trained and they're too well, boy,
Speaker 2: do we get that wrong. We thought he'd be too
Speaker 2: he'd be too aware to self aware. Well, in fact,
Speaker 2: exactly the opposite was true when he became the biggest
Speaker 2: character in the show. So you can't you can't plan
Speaker 2: for that. So that's the note that came out of it.
Speaker 2: How do we action that note? We cannot action that
Speaker 2: note because God knows, I mean, I know this season
Speaker 2: because we've you know, we've filmed it. So now we're
Speaker 2: cutting it, now I'm seeing it. I'm probably up to
Speaker 2: it fourteen or fifteen. We can't plan for that, and
Speaker 2: that's the joy of the show has discussed earlier.
Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you that I worked with Bryce
Speaker 1: back in the day in radio a couple of times.
Speaker 1: And if you called me and told me while you
Speaker 1: were casting him, I could have pre warned you that
Speaker 1: the show was going to blow up. But that is
Speaker 1: a completely different story, and I will sidestep my way
Speaker 1: around it because I don't think that my podcast is
Speaker 1: about saying anything bad about someone who doesn't have a
Speaker 1: place on the podcast to defend themselves. So instead, you know, instead,
Speaker 1: I'll move on to my two quick questions about Channel
Speaker 1: nine for the rest of the year. I absolutely loved
Speaker 1: and always do love love Ireland. You know, I thought
Speaker 1: last year was great, but I hope COVID permits us
Speaker 1: being able to get back to a more exotic location.
Speaker 1: I think that was the one.
Speaker 2: Thing for me. And I also.
Speaker 1: Look, I thought that the setting was beautiful and it
Speaker 1: times it really worked. But there's something about you know,
Speaker 1: Spain that really resonated on that show. It made Cassidy
Speaker 1: crazy on that show and fun and palpable and relatable.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I think taking Australians completely into this really foreign territory worked.
Speaker 2: And I also thought the twenty three.
Speaker 1: And I think the twenty four hour turnaround was more
Speaker 1: prevalent the last season to me, as much as I'm
Speaker 1: sure Mavdikus and other people will tell me, they turned
Speaker 1: it around as fast as they would do on real time,
Speaker 1: et cetera. To me, I felt like the twenty four
Speaker 1: our turnaround not being there is a bit of a punish.
Speaker 2: So Big Brother.
Speaker 1: The purest, a purest.
Speaker 2: A purest of yours. I hear you. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I hear you well because it's a loaded question, because there's.
Speaker 2: A lot too. There is some wisdom in what you say.
Speaker 1: I'll take it. And then Snack Masters and Parental Guidance.
Speaker 1: Both of these shows to me was surprises because I
Speaker 1: thoroughly enjoyed both of them and we don't know were
Speaker 1: they going to be a part of Channel Lines lineup
Speaker 1: in the back end of the year. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: Can you tell me on a podcast?
Speaker 2: We love both. We've loved both of them with our
Speaker 2: great chase. You know, Stack Masses was made under the
Speaker 2: most extraordinary conditions, like literally things being shut down around
Speaker 2: us as we were making the show, like, you know,
Speaker 2: police turning up trying to shut the set down, you know,
Speaker 2: because of the whole COVID disaster. You know. The extraordinary
Speaker 2: circumstances under which we got that show out was amazing.
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers did an absolutely fabulous job on that. My
Speaker 2: wife was the executive producers, so I would say that
Speaker 2: wouldn't I But.
Speaker 1: Is she in the background? By the way of doing
Speaker 1: like I.
Speaker 2: Said, I'm not saying anything. But it's a fabulous show.
Speaker 2: There is no Believe me. I know that. I've hitched
Speaker 2: my wagon too. That Rising Star. No, that was good.
Speaker 2: And the chemistry between Poe and Scott Pickett, you know
Speaker 2: you can't create that that again, that's one of those
Speaker 2: things that you know, Post gotch is fabuls and Scott's
Speaker 2: fabulous too. So and We've got a whole lot more
Speaker 2: brilliant Australian snacks to get through, so you know, I'm
Speaker 2: hoping we'll go again. But watch this space. It's a
Speaker 2: great show. It's a great show, and it's one of
Speaker 2: the very few examples of not having success in the
Speaker 2: food genre. But it's a great show.
Speaker 1: One of the things I liked about it was the
Speaker 1: true channel line styling of a show. It felt really
Speaker 1: beautiful to watch and I thoroughly enjoyed, especially in the
Speaker 1: first episode with Hungry Jacks, just dipping back into our
Speaker 1: Australian relationship with the product and the brand, just seeing
Speaker 1: the terry tale shorts and people running around eating Hungry
Speaker 1: Jacks back in the day and finding out about the
Speaker 1: man himself behind it, you know, all in the history
Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved that. I loved all that retro stuff.
Speaker 2: It was fantastic, you know, the old hungry Jacks ads
Speaker 2: and oh got the misogyny and the haircuts and Brental Gardens,
Speaker 2: which took a really big risk with that. That was
Speaker 2: an internally developed format made by Melissa MacLean, who was
Speaker 2: the e and we're really thrilled with it. We really
Speaker 2: wanted to make something that kind of was really insightful
Speaker 2: and really dealt with parenting in a really insightful way,
Speaker 2: but where you saw real people doing it that wasn't
Speaker 2: lectury or preachy or too sort of instructional. And that's
Speaker 2: kind of where we That's the format we came up
Speaker 2: with because you know, everyone judges everyone else's parenting style
Speaker 2: and and we thought if we could we could find
Speaker 2: the archetypes of each parenting style, but people who really
Speaker 2: believed in their style, and then put them up against
Speaker 2: each other, we'd get something really really interesting out of that.
Speaker 2: And what Fast and I said to all of them
Speaker 2: are as soon as they get on camera, they're just
Speaker 2: going to do whatever they think is going to look
Speaker 2: best on camera. How wrong I was. They stuck to
Speaker 2: their parenting style guns from start to finish, and they
Speaker 2: were absolutely true believe as a great parent IM and
Speaker 2: they were absolutely true believers all the way through. And
Speaker 2: the numbers were really good for it, and we're absolutely thrilled.
Speaker 1: There was an entry point as well for like myself
Speaker 1: who don't have children, which I thought was great because.
Speaker 2: We've all been children. Then that was the theory.
Speaker 1: I was going to say that you yeah, well, I'm
Speaker 1: an adult child, I'm a man child.
Speaker 2: I speak, you're even when you're a child. I was.
Speaker 1: I was as a child, people said that I was
Speaker 1: an old soul, you know. People were like, oh, that kid's,
Speaker 1: you know, like an old soul. You can talk to
Speaker 1: the adults. And then now that I'm an adult, people like, oh,
Speaker 1: that guy's like a child. So I think it's if
Speaker 1: I can maintain child curiosity, I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 2: You're the Benjamin Button of your generation.
Speaker 1: I'm raging in reverse. My last question to ask you,
Speaker 1: which is something I ask everyone on the podcast, is
Speaker 1: what is something from behind the scenes that were as
Speaker 1: an audience did not see but would love to know
Speaker 1: or appreciate from the behind the scenes of making this
Speaker 1: season of Married at First Sight that we're currently watching.
Speaker 2: Right, what will Tara let me tell you?
Speaker 1: We won't tell her.
Speaker 2: How do I put this? Okay? I offer you this
Speaker 2: as men and women, not as TV producers, but as
Speaker 2: men and women watching the show. Were very surprised. And
Speaker 2: this is not just this season, but it was particular,
Speaker 2: particularly the case of the season, how little there was
Speaker 2: a sisterhood, how little the sisterhood was respected, and the
Speaker 2: extent to which it was every woman for themselves. I
Speaker 2: think that rather surprised us a little bit.
Speaker 1: Is that a true representation though, of people like I
Speaker 1: think it's really funny.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's extraordinary circumstances. You've got people with
Speaker 2: cameras standing in your bedroom, so let's acknowledge it's television.
Speaker 1: It's probably a deeper conversation to have. But I wonder
Speaker 1: whether or not the lack of sisterhood that we see
Speaker 1: these days between women has to do with the genders
Speaker 1: and where we are in today's society.
Speaker 2: I think men are yearning to be vulnerable and it's
Speaker 2: not going very well for.
Speaker 1: Them, But also I think women are wanting to not
Speaker 1: be seen as being vulnerable, which as well as we
Speaker 1: find our feet with that, as we want to find
Speaker 1: our feet, not me, I'm speaking on behalf of all women,
Speaker 1: which is a terrible thing to do and I'll probably
Speaker 1: get canceled, but I think, you know, as women want
Speaker 1: to be seen as more assertive and in control, it
Speaker 1: can sometimes be misconstrued as being.
Speaker 2: This and that's, and that's and that's, and you've got
Speaker 2: to be very careful with that because I think they've
Speaker 2: every right to be as certain of an in control
Speaker 2: and actually I'm not and let me be clear, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that's in any way an issue here. You know.
Speaker 2: The great thing about maths is one of the things
Speaker 2: we've always been very clear on because you know, Tara
Speaker 2: has been absolutely adamant about this, but it's it's it's
Speaker 2: the fundamental part of the show. The people we cast
Speaker 2: or a cross section of Australia, but we do look
Speaker 2: for strong, strong and there's such appliche do you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Women who can thrive and stand up
Speaker 2: for themselves in this environment and and you know, represent
Speaker 2: what they bring to the show, their age, their ethnicity,
Speaker 2: their background, their experience in a way that people like
Speaker 2: and that that you know will work in the context
Speaker 2: of television.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's a much broader conversation that we'd
Speaker 1: need a lot more wine.
Speaker 2: Sorry, yes, you want to a sourcy little anecdote, and instead
Speaker 2: I gave you a great existential question. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1: To be honest, that's more on brand for me than
Speaker 1: probably getting something salacious out of you. But I will
Speaker 1: say this to you just to finish off, and that
Speaker 1: is you know, I had such a great time working
Speaker 1: with Channel nine back in the day, so I want
Speaker 1: to say thank you for that, and I for all
Speaker 1: those people out there that think reality TV contestants probably
Speaker 1: get chucked to the side. For me, I never felt that.
Speaker 2: I'm pleased. And look, you know there are some people
Speaker 2: you've maintained contact with others that you don't. It's never
Speaker 2: a uniform experience for everyone. But you know, we're not
Speaker 2: in the business of chewing people up and spitting them out.
Speaker 2: You know, we want people to have a good experience,
Speaker 2: and you know we want there's a lot of aftercare
Speaker 2: that goes into our shows, but particularly when people like
Speaker 2: you Ben, who had a talent in the show but
Speaker 2: a talent, the transcend of the show. You know, I
Speaker 2: have quite a few ongoing friendships from the shows we
Speaker 2: make because as you can tell, and as if you said,
Speaker 2: you've said a couple of times, we love the shows
Speaker 2: and we love the people who participated in them. And
Speaker 2: you know, it's a joy. It was a joy to
Speaker 2: see your journey how you kind of came alive, and
Speaker 2: you know how they showed commentated your proposal and everything.
Speaker 2: But you know, to watch someone blossom in an environment
Speaker 2: like television, that's also a great pleasure for us. But yes,
Speaker 2: thank you ever saying that that that genuinely means a lot.
Speaker 2: Thank you. We've had a good working relationship while we
Speaker 2: were while we were on the show and in the
Speaker 2: because you say, my god, the ten years since.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it.
Speaker 2: And congratulations on your career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know it's a work in progress. But
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I mean, this was worse. It's
Speaker 1: waiting gold for me.
Speaker 2: Happy to help it. Always nice to see you.
Speaker 1: Say hello to Caroline, tell her good luck with Celebrity
Speaker 1: Apprentice this year. Loved it last year.
Speaker 2: I'll be in the front, I say, on behalf of
Speaker 2: my lovely wife who may or may not be hearing this.
Speaker 2: It's a very very very good series.
Speaker 1: Well, that is the best teas we've done through the
Speaker 1: whole podcast, so we'll leave it there right Thanks Ben.