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Speaker 1: As we know, NT Police officer Zach Rolf was on

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Speaker 1: Friday acquitted on all charges over the shooting death of

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Speaker 1: Kumanjai Walker in Yuendumu in twenty nineteen. Now, the effects

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Speaker 1: have been felt far and wide and the response has

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Speaker 1: certainly been varied. Yesterday we heard from the opposition leader

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Speaker 1: calling for a full independent inquiry. We also heard from

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Speaker 1: the father of zak Roff, Richard, who called for the

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner to be removed from his job. Meanwhile, the

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh says political interference was alive

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Speaker 1: when the constable was charged with the murder of Kumenjai Walker. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we were unable to do a live interview with the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, Michael Gunner this morning due to him and

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Speaker 1: the remainder of his cabinet being in a budget cabinet meeting,

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Speaker 1: but we felt it was important enough that we still

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Speaker 1: went ahead with a pre recorded interview a little bit

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Speaker 1: earlier this morning. Joining me on the line is the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, Michael Gunner. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Cady.

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Speaker 1: Now Chief Minister and Territory Police officers Zach Roff on Friday,

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Speaker 1: as we know, acquitted on all charges over the shooting

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Speaker 1: death of kumen Jai Walker. Outside the court, mister Walker's family,

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Speaker 1: Zach Roff, his legal team, and the Police Association all

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Speaker 1: spoke about the impact that this case has had.

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Speaker 3: What was your reaction to that outcome?

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Speaker 2: I think, for what was it a bit over two

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Speaker 2: years now, everybody wanted to see the justice process come

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Speaker 2: to its conclusion. You know that there was an investigation

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Speaker 2: that went through the court, the people of you and

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Speaker 2: to move Kmujoe Walker and his family, mister Rolf and

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Speaker 2: his family, the police, and we've now seen an outcome

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Speaker 2: that that's what we're after here and we've seen that

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Speaker 2: that decision come down of not guilty on all three counts.

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Speaker 2: Imagine that's a huge amount of relief mister Rolf and

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Speaker 2: his family, and as I understand it, you and the

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Speaker 2: Moon and Kumujoe Walker's family are now looking towards the

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Speaker 2: coronial for a broader understanding of everything that led up

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Speaker 2: and happened in you and the move over those days.

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Speaker 1: Now, the comments that you made back into twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: they've caused many to question if there was political interference

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Speaker 1: prior to the charges being laid, after you'd promised the

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Speaker 1: residents of you and to move just days after the

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Speaker 1: shooting that consequences will flow.

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Speaker 3: Why did you make those comments?

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Speaker 2: As you might recall, Cardie, back then, very difficult time

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Speaker 2: for the community've been unrest leading up to the incident,

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Speaker 2: that's been through the court process, and we saw the

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Speaker 2: health staff because of the community unrest, vacate the town

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Speaker 2: the day before. The main questions I was getting that

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Speaker 2: day went to will there be an independent investigation, yes,

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Speaker 2: that the coroner will look at it, and what would

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Speaker 2: we do in the future about health services and how

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Speaker 2: we handle rest within our community. It was clear what

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Speaker 2: I was talking about. Unfortunately, and as you know, we've

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Speaker 2: had this concess quite a lot on your show, Katie,

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Speaker 2: my comments were deliberately taken out of context. I think

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Speaker 2: was irresponsible and deliberate. I was clearly talking about the

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Speaker 2: coronial investigation, of which will now command and I still

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Speaker 2: expect there to be consequences, recommendations, findings, pick your word

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Speaker 2: that will flow as a result of that.

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Speaker 3: All right, let's set this straight.

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Speaker 1: Were there any meetings with you and the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police between the time of the shooting and when the

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Speaker 1: officer was.

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Speaker 2: Charged I had absolutely no involvement in the charges. The

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Speaker 2: police Union considered that yesterday. This is a completely ordinary

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Speaker 2: process around how you do an investigation and how you

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Speaker 2: lay charges. I had absolutely no involvement in that. I

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Speaker 2: never have. It's been unfortunately the police Union essentially insinuated

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Speaker 2: that for a couple of years and deliberately and irresponsibly

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Speaker 2: taking my quotes out of context for scull that argument.

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Speaker 1: So, just to really set this straight, you didn't were

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Speaker 1: their meetings held between you and the police at any

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Speaker 1: point after that shooting occurred and before Constable zach Roff

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Speaker 1: was charged.

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Speaker 2: I meet with police regularly, nothing did so there.

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Speaker 3: Were meetings at all, but there were meetings.

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Speaker 2: Meetings to do with the charging process.

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Speaker 3: So what was the nature of those meetings.

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Speaker 2: Oh, just anything ordinarily to do with police, but nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with the charging process. So the whole accusation

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Speaker 2: here is, was I involved in charging investigations evidence any

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Speaker 2: of that? Zero involvement. Do I meet with police? Of

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Speaker 2: course I meet with police, but nothing to do with this,

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with anything at all one anything that's

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Speaker 2: been insinuated or accused of.

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Speaker 1: So was there ever a suggestion from you or anyone

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Speaker 1: in your office or the Police Minister's office that there

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Speaker 1: needed to be swift action as a result or following

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Speaker 1: on from this shooting.

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Speaker 2: Absolute hard. No, we absolutely respect the law, we respect

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Speaker 2: the processes, we respect the integrity of police. That's that's bically,

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Speaker 2: that's all we're going to. That police would even be

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Speaker 2: open to that suggestion is appalling in my opinion, and

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Speaker 2: a direct attack on them. So that's my opinion, policing

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Speaker 2: uion attacking police, which is disgraceful.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, we will get I will get to the

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Speaker 1: situation with the police in just a couple of moments.

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Speaker 1: But what I'm keen to sort of get to the

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Speaker 1: bottom of firstly, is that decision making process from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: as well as why you decided to go to you

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Speaker 1: and to move so soon after that shooting occurred. I

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Speaker 1: know that the Police Association president yesterday said at the

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Speaker 1: press conference that the attendance of the Chief Minister, Michael

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Speaker 1: Gunner and the Minister for Police Nicole Madison was a

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Speaker 1: catastrophe and should never have occurred. Why did you travel

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Speaker 1: to you and to move so early in the peace?

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Speaker 2: I think it was incredibly important to get to you

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Speaker 2: and the move. We've been dealing with a community that

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Speaker 2: had unrest for a number of days. They were seriously

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Speaker 2: upset by a range of things, including the health staff

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Speaker 2: leaving the community the day before. This is a community

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Speaker 2: of six hundred people, it's isolated, it was a hotbed.

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Speaker 2: We needed to go in and provide leadership to calm

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Speaker 2: things down, which we did. The only catastrophe from that

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Speaker 2: day was the irresponsible and deliberate decision by the Union

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Speaker 2: to take my quote our context for two years.

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Speaker 1: But Chief Minister, can you understand I mean, like on

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Speaker 1: those comments. So I think what you've got to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: is those comments, from what I can gather, have led

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Speaker 1: the community of you and Demou to feel as though

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Speaker 1: there was potentially going to be a different outcome. And

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Speaker 1: they've led the police, some of the rank and file

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Speaker 1: within the police force to feel as though there had

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Speaker 1: been a pre emptied outcome and that they weren't supported.

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Speaker 2: It was clear of talking about coronial. It was absolutely

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Speaker 2: clear of talking about coronial. You don't have to go

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Speaker 2: back too far. Literally the sentence prior to that, I

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Speaker 2: mentioned the coroner three times. It was an appalling decision

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Speaker 2: by the Union to use those quotes out of context

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Speaker 2: and they knew what they were doing.

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Speaker 1: All right now, You've said that it was an important

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Speaker 1: decision for you to go out to you and Demo

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Speaker 1: following on from what had occurred, and despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that that thorough investigation had.

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Speaker 3: Yet to take place.

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Speaker 1: Did you go out to Palmerston last week following on

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Speaker 1: from the shooting incident.

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Speaker 2: We didn't have any systemic failues in Palmerston, so I

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Speaker 2: haven't had the Palmestan original hospital staff fak. We had

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Speaker 2: in you and de Moose situation where the government staff

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Speaker 2: left the community. It was critical. I went back in

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Speaker 2: and said we're here, We're here to help. The health

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Speaker 2: staff returned to the community. We're here with you, we're

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Speaker 2: working through this. It was a completely different situation. I've

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Speaker 2: not had the Parmesan original hostile staff fa K Palmeston.

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Speaker 2: Entirely different situations.

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Speaker 3: So you think that there is no similarities to draw here?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: All right now?

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Speaker 1: The Police Association President Paul mcew yesterday said following the

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Speaker 1: end of the trial that evidence discussed showed that there

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Speaker 1: was never enough evidence to lay the most serious judge.

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Speaker 3: Of murder on Constable Rolf.

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Speaker 1: He said, our members, including Constable Rolf, the family of

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Speaker 1: Kamen Jai Walker, the community of ew and Demu, and

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Speaker 1: the entire community deserve the truth in an open and

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Speaker 1: transparent manner. From your understanding, why were the concerns of

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Speaker 1: senior investigators being set aside regarding the speed in which

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Speaker 1: charges were being considered against Constable Rolf.

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Speaker 2: I've got the command and that I wasn't involved. Not

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Speaker 2: something I've ever been involved with, So wouldn't I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: understand that part of the process. It's always independent of meat.

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Speaker 1: Upon reflection though, and upon hearing this, are you concerned

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Speaker 1: that that happened?

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Speaker 2: I don't, As you should know, Katie, I don't get

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Speaker 2: involved in any of this work around the evidence, investigations, charges, prosecutions,

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Speaker 2: how any of that works. I never should. That's not

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Speaker 2: something I'm involved in.

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Speaker 1: But are you concerned that that charges were laid or

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Speaker 1: potentially laid before a full and thorough investigation had taken place.

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Speaker 3: That is the That is the claim.

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Speaker 2: Here as I understand it. If there was no case,

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Speaker 2: the court would have kicked that out in day one.

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Speaker 2: That's that the court has the capacity look at something

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Speaker 2: and say you haven't done the work. Get out, but

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Speaker 2: they didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: Taking this into account, I mean, do you feel as

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Speaker 1: though the police executive have acted appropriately.

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Speaker 2: I think the police have done their jobs fearlessly. They

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Speaker 2: follow the evidence where they thought it led. We want

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Speaker 2: the police to be able to make decisions like this

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Speaker 2: and do investigations like that is the job of police.

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Speaker 1: And do you back the decisions that they made to

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Speaker 1: charge Constable Rolph before our thorough investigation had taken place.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't. I don't conceive that point. So I

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Speaker 2: believe the police made decisions they did of the information

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Speaker 2: they had, which is their job.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yesterday on the show, I spoke to Zach Roff's father, Richard,

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Speaker 1: who made some scathing remarks about the situation.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to what he told me on the

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Speaker 3: show yesterday.

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Speaker 4: No commissioned officer has ever checked on Zach's welfare or

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Speaker 4: his family since the arrest, and they have persecuted him

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Speaker 4: relentlessly and without doubt. They are the worst employer in

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Speaker 4: the country. They have no duty of care, so they're staff.

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Speaker 4: It's atrocious and the only way the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 4: Force can rebound to be the great police force that

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Speaker 4: they once were is to immediately remove Jamie Chalker.

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Speaker 1: You are calling for the Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker to

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Speaker 1: be removed from his job.

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Speaker 4: Whether he is sacked immediately or he resigns, I don't mind,

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Speaker 4: but he.

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Speaker 3: Must go, Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: Should the police commissioner resign's.

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Speaker 2: A couple of comments. First, extreme sympathy and understanding for

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Speaker 2: the dad, extreme sympty understanding for him and whatever he feels.

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Speaker 2: Completely get that. For the police commissioner, he has my

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Speaker 2: full support. Jamie Chalker is an absolute straight tutor. Going

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Speaker 2: fifty nine and sixty zone is too fast for Jamie.

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Speaker 2: I've got complete confidence in the Police Commissioner where very

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Speaker 2: closely than on a number of things that particularly COVID.

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Speaker 2: I think he's an outstanding police commissioner.

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Speaker 1: So full confidence in the Northern Territory Police Commissioner at this.

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Speaker 3: Point, absolutely all right now.

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Speaker 1: Zakrov's father also said that no serving officer had reached

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Speaker 1: out to his son through.

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Speaker 3: The whole two years.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that it's appropriate that a constable who

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Speaker 1: followed his police training wasn't supported.

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Speaker 3: By the fur.

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Speaker 2: So that's probably more complicated and point needs to be

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Speaker 2: discussed with police. I'm not sure if there are limits

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Speaker 2: on what you can and can't do, there is a

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Speaker 2: chaplaincy service that's available for that support and the union

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Speaker 2: was involved, which I presume police commanders knew the union

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Speaker 2: was involved in providing that support and welfare. So when

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Speaker 2: you're going through a process of this with someone's being charged,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure on the correctness of being allowed to

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Speaker 2: even reach out or not so that police will have

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Speaker 2: to be able to discuss what they can and can't

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Speaker 2: do and how the chaplaincy and welfare services that are

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Speaker 2: there provided support. And obviously that's the union's role specifically

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Speaker 2: is to provide support.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister, did you feel as though the comments made

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Speaker 1: by the police commissioner on Friday afternoon addressing the media

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Speaker 1: but not taking questions were appropriate?

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Speaker 2: I didn't pay attention, I'm sorry, Katie, to the police

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Speaker 2: commissioner's comments on Friday.

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Speaker 1: So you didn't listen to what your police commissioner had

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Speaker 1: to say on Friday following on from the biggest case

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory is arguably seen for several years.

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Speaker 2: No, I thought the decision itself was int bit. I

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Speaker 2: didn't I apologize, Kate, I didn't pay attention to the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner to talk with comments on further.

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Speaker 1: It does seem right now that there's a real sense

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Speaker 1: of let down within the community. I mean the community

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Speaker 1: of you and Demoux obviously feels let down. The rank

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Speaker 1: and file of the police force feel that they don't

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Speaker 1: have the support of the government or the police executive,

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Speaker 1: is what some of them have told me. Those words

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Speaker 1: that you said, consequences will flow. They continue to be

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Speaker 1: raised and used really as a sticking point against you.

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Speaker 3: Do you regret saying that a context?

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, if you read the full quote, there was nothing

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Speaker 2: wrong with what I said. The union had led a

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Speaker 2: two year campaign of deliberate misinformation, which is extremely unfortunate.

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Speaker 1: So are you saying here that the union's got a

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Speaker 1: campaign against you and that they're not representing the views

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Speaker 1: of the rank and file of the police force.

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Speaker 2: I said that on the new show before Katie. There's

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Speaker 2: deliberate and repetitive taking of my words out of context

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Speaker 2: when they knew better.

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Speaker 3: So you have no regret saying those words?

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Speaker 2: No, I said on the day the coroner is independent,

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Speaker 2: there will be in an investigation and consequences all throws

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Speaker 2: as all that the coroner still hasn't done his coronial.

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Speaker 2: That will come and there will be absolutely consequences, recommendations

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Speaker 2: finding stick your words out of that. Like I still

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Speaker 2: stand by it. It was irresponsible by the union to

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Speaker 2: do it on the day, and it was irresponsible that

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Speaker 2: you need to do it for the last two years.

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Speaker 1: You don't take any in the union say, but you

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Speaker 1: don't take any responsible. You don't actually think that it

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Speaker 1: was irresponsible for you to make those comments so soon

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Speaker 1: after a fatal shooting.

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Speaker 2: There's absolutely going to be a coronial, and I'll absolutely

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Speaker 2: look at a range of decisions, including how we make

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Speaker 2: decisions about community unrest and staff leaving that community or not,

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Speaker 2: and what the right thing to do or not do

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Speaker 2: in that situation. We've made change it since then about

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Speaker 2: how we handle that. I absolutely expect the coroner to

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Speaker 2: look at it. It's a very serious issue. It is

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Speaker 2: something I had to reassure the community on that in future,

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Speaker 2: when there's unrest, there will be a slower, more deliberate

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Speaker 2: process about how we provide support to that community and

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Speaker 2: when and how we might make a decision about taking

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Speaker 2: nurses out. We know that the safety of nurses is paramount,

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Speaker 2: but when there is community unrest. The priority of government

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Speaker 2: now is to serve more resources in to help that

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Speaker 2: community out because there's clearly a problem in that community,

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Speaker 2: not to take staff out. We've made changes to our

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Speaker 2: decision making processes and changes how we support and resource

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Speaker 2: remote communities. Result of that, that was a huge thing.

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Speaker 2: That was a community that was hurting and worried about

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Speaker 2: why government left them on that day. And I went

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Speaker 2: back there to tell you Government won't leave you again.

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Speaker 2: We will surge resources in, not take staff out when

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Speaker 2: it is unrest. That was the main part of the

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Speaker 2: public meeting. The main thing I talked about. What I

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Speaker 2: was referencing in those comments, which the Union knew, was

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Speaker 2: that I was talking about the health staff leaving that

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Speaker 2: community on that day, and how we would make changes

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Speaker 2: in the future, and that there'll be independent investigation led

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Speaker 2: by the Kroner, who I can't tell what to do.

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Speaker 2: They're independent, but they take a board look at things

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Speaker 2: normally who will go into that And the Union knew that,

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Speaker 2: and they deliberately and repeatedly took my comments of context

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Speaker 2: over the last two years.

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Speaker 5: Well rom on them.

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Speaker 1: We will certainly be hearing from the Police Association in

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Speaker 1: a few minutes time. Now Chief Minister, the Opposition leader

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Speaker 1: and also the Police Association and members of the community

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Speaker 1: are calling for a full and independent inquiry. Do you

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Speaker 1: support this so it will clear any accusations of political interference?

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Speaker 2: The coroner is independent.

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Speaker 3: No, but I mean a separate a separate inquiry.

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Speaker 2: Well, the can look anything they want independent.

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Speaker 1: Can they after those comments were made really so soon

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Speaker 1: as well in Alice Springs by the then Ikak commissioner.

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Speaker 3: Is that appropriate?

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Speaker 2: Well that he woul accused himself and he's not there anymore.

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Speaker 1: But can you see though, why members of the community

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Speaker 1: would be saying no, No, this needs to be full

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Speaker 1: independent inquiry, removed from any of those you know, any

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Speaker 1: of the ones that you've just spoken about.

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Speaker 2: No, the coroner is independent and the k independent, so.

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Speaker 1: You're totally ruling out any other independent look at this

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Speaker 1: and any independent look into whether there's been any kind

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Speaker 1: of political interference.

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Speaker 2: You're asking conspiracy not and I'm saying no, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not asking if you're a conspiracy. No, you're

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Speaker 1: actually no, actually representing the view of the community.

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Speaker 2: Look at this.

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Speaker 1: I think that's actually I think that's a bit of

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Speaker 1: a ridiculous statement to make you know, I'm representing views

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Speaker 1: of the community that like that. People are out there

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Speaker 1: saying right now, and if you want to call them

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Speaker 1: conspiracy nuts, it's a bit disrespectful towards them, if I'm honest, Okay,

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Speaker 1: towards members of the public, people who voted for you.

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Speaker 2: There is an eyekak there independent. They can look at

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Speaker 2: anything in the coroner's independent. We're also looking at.

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Speaker 3: This, all right, Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: There are now calls for some in remote communities for

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Speaker 1: systemic change for the way in which communities are policed.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to you and.

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Speaker 1: Demoo Elder Ned Hargreaves outside the.

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Speaker 3: Court on Friday.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that you may have already heard this, but

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Speaker 1: take a listen to what he had to say on Friday.

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Speaker 5: It's another sad day. I just say, when we are

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Speaker 5: going to get substance, When Cangela mogun no guns, no

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Speaker 5: guns in the Row remote community where I want.

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Speaker 3: No, then enough enough, Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: Are you going to be looking at at this and

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Speaker 1: are you going to continue? Are police officer is going

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Speaker 1: to be able to continue to have firearms in communities?

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Speaker 2: Police have to have the kit they need and they

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Speaker 2: never know what situation they're going to be responding to.

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Speaker 2: So police, whatever the kit it is, where is a

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Speaker 2: gun or not a gun, that's decision by a police

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Speaker 2: and police command. I fully support them and making sure

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Speaker 2: that the police have the kit that they need.

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Speaker 1: And you are satisfied that Northern Territory police are obviously

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Speaker 1: being adequately trained and the way in which they are

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Speaker 1: policing in remote communities is to the standard that you

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Speaker 1: feel it needs to be.

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Speaker 2: To my understanding, obviously the coroner might consider that part

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Speaker 2: of his work.

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Speaker 1: But yes, all right, Chief Minister Michael Gunner, we will

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Speaker 1: leave it there. We appreciate your time this morning. Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much, Thank Katie, Thank you you are listening

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Speaker 1: to Mix one oh four point nine is three sixty.

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Speaker 1: I've no doubt there will be plenty of you keen

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Speaker 1: to get in contact with us this morning coming your way.

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Speaker 1: Next though, we are going to be speaking to the

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul mcew