1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Now we know that the Act and the Northern Territory 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: are a step closer to being able to legislate for 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: voluntary assists and dying. After a vote in the Senate yesterday, 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Senator just Centerprice has voted against the bill, saying that 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: amendments regarding children under eighteen need further consideration when it 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: comes to euthanasia. Now, I know that some people are 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: pretty irate about this. Even the former Senator Sam McMahon 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: has weighed in saying that the opposition to the territory 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: making its own laws by the colp senator is an 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: outrageous act of treachery. We know that the Deputy Chief Inison, 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: Nicole Madison, was on the show earlier this morning on 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: the Week that was firing up about it. But joining 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: me on the line right now to explain her stance 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: is Senator Price. Good morning to your senator. 15 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie. 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: Now, why did you vote against this bill? 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: So I'd like to make this very clear that what 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: I voted against was the second greeting of the bill. 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: In its current form, there aren't safeguards in it to 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: protect vulnerable territorians. Let me also make it very clear 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 2: that I support the rights of territoriums, but that it 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: should be understood that while there are those who are 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: suggesting this bill is just about territory rights, it is 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: only very narrow. It's about allowing the opportunity to legislate 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: in terms of assisted dying. So my concerns are around 26 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: the fact that there is no safeguards with regard to 27 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: children with people for people with a disability or mental impairment. 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: So this bill was to be was originally on the 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: agenda for next Thursday, and in the meantime these amendments 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: were being worked too in draft form, so we were 31 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: sort of blindsided when we were, you know, when it 32 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: was put to the vote. So what I'm what I 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: am currently doing is drafting amendments that will seek to 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: uphold the rights of children so that they are not 35 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: subject to assisted dying, and also also with regard to 36 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: those with a disability or mental impairment in accordance with 37 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: a Disability Discrimination Act and also the Criminal Code Act. 38 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: So you know, there's a lot of people throwing around 39 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: words like treachery and you know, all these sorts of 40 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: terms which are very emotive. But what I'm doing, which 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: a lot of people do not do is regard the 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: vulnerable in these circumstances. And this current territory government has 43 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: demonstrated their complete disregard for vulnerable territoriums, you know, in 44 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: a number of different ways. So I certainly don't trust 45 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: for them to consider appropriate safeguards for children or those 46 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: of the disability or a mental impairment. 47 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: So, Senator, from what it appears as though you're telling 48 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: me that that second that was obviously how you voted 49 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: on the second reading of the bill, there's opportunity now 50 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: for some change to be made. So will you get 51 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: another opportunity to vote, and if so, are you going 52 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: to vote the same way? Yeah? 53 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: Look, look, this is this is what it's all about. 54 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: The final vote hasn't been taken. So this this this 55 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: decision has not been finalized. This has provided the opportunity 56 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: for the amendment to be voted on before we vote 57 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: to the bill and its entirety. So you know, this 58 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: is this is a grave concern. If this was entirely 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: about territory, right, this would not be a conscience vote. 60 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: And I'm in fact, I'm going step further in drafting 61 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: a private Senator's bill that will speak to actually real 62 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: territory rights, restoring rights across legislation, not that a specific 63 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: to assisted dying. And I want to be able to 64 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: in that consult with territorians over the coming twelve months 65 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: or so about how they feel with regard to pushing 66 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: toward statehood with regard to obtaining full rights for territorians, 67 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: because it's one thing to look specifically at one bit 68 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: of legislation, but we do as a territory obviously need 69 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: to look broader than that. 70 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: All right, let's go back to though this one bit 71 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: of legislation that we know, as you've said there, it 72 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: is going to have that final vote take place. So 73 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: are you going to vote the same way when that 74 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: final vote happens. Are you going to vote against the 75 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: territory being able to make its own decision on euthanasia? 76 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: I guess we have to have the process first with 77 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 2: regard to the amendments, and I want to see what 78 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: the outcome is with regard to those amendments. It is 79 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: evident that the bill is going to pass, probably with 80 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: or without those amendments, but I personally have to see 81 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: what the process where the process stands with regard to 82 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 2: the amendments that I'm proposing to put up. 83 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: Senator, what what part or what exactly is it when 84 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: you when you're talking about you know, young people or 85 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: those under the age of eight a what exactly are 86 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: you concerned about here? 87 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: Well, as it stands, there are no considerations or safeguards 88 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: with regard to the possibility of children you know, I'm 89 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: being euthanized really, or those with a mental impairment, Alzheimer's dementia, 90 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: those sorts of issues or a disability that they might 91 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: be subject to assisted dying when they're not fully capable 92 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: of making those sorts of decisions for themselves. 93 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: So, you know, So are you saying here, are you 94 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: saying that a parent, you know, depending on the situation 95 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: that a child under the age of eighteen is in 96 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: I you know, what kind of illness they are suffering from. 97 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: Are you saying that that a parent can make that decision, 98 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of voluntary assisted dying on behalf 99 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: of their child. 100 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: Well, as it stands in the current bill, there's nothing 101 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: to say that that can't be the case. 102 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: Okay, And so then when you talk about people with 103 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: a mental impairment or the example that you're given there 104 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: of Alzheimer's. Is it a situation though, where you know 105 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: somebody would would make that decision themselves when they are 106 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: of a better frame of mind. I know that, you know, 107 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: for me, my family has gone through a situation where 108 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: my father was in the hospice and through palliative care, 109 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: so I've got a good understanding of how that all works. 110 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: And he probably wouldn't have gone down this path. He 111 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: would have, you know, he would have stayed the way 112 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: that he did in terms of, you know, living as 113 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: long as he could. And and everybody's decision is different, 114 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: But I think the point is that it should be 115 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: a person's decision, shouldn't it. 116 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: Well, look, I don't think if that person can coherently 117 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: make that decision for themselves based on their mental capabilities 118 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: at the time, whether that's you know, these are all 119 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: considerations that need to be taken into place. And I 120 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: certainly also know of circumstances where, you know, people who 121 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: haven't been of the right mental state to make that decision, 122 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 2: have have gone through a sister dying and it hasn't 123 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: been in the end, hasn't been the right decision, you know. 124 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: And also I know of circumstances where people have been 125 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: wrongfully diagnosed. There's a whole raft of areas and I'm 126 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: just really wanting to put some safeguards in place because 127 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: I mean, as you know, I'm in everything. I'm led 128 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: by my concerns for particularly vulnerable people. And this has 129 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: always been the case. This is all it's about for me. 130 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: It's not about trying to remove the rights of Territorians 131 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 2: to legislate on anything. But this is a pretty narrow 132 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: piece of legislation it is to do with this, and 133 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: I am you know, I'm just I'm taking everything into consideration, 134 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: you know, as we go forward with this, because I 135 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: think it's necessary and I think as lawmakers we should 136 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: be taking absolutely everything into consideration. 137 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: Senator, what would you say to those people listening this 138 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: morning who feel as though you're not feel as though 139 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: you're going against what they want and their rights as territorians. 140 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: Well, if people really want to, you know, concerned about 141 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: the rights of Territorians, then we should be having a 142 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: conversation about statehood. That's what we should be having a 143 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 2: conversation about. If territorians, if this is the will of territorians, 144 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 2: and this is something that we should look more broadly 145 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: to as Territorians, and this is certainly something that I'm 146 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: drafting for and going forward having those conversations with Territorians 147 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: across the board. 148 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: I mean right now, though, there are a lot of 149 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: people who are seriously concerned and passionate about Territorians having 150 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: their own right and being able to make their own 151 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 1: decision when it comes to voluntary assisted dying, and some 152 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: of them listening this morning are going to be really 153 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: frustrated by what you are saying. 154 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: Well, look, it's a matter of being patient, that's all 155 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: it is. It's just a matter of being patient. And 156 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: I've heard I've heard from people across the board. I've 157 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: heard from people right across the board and those who 158 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: have a concern certainly for children and certainly for those 159 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: of the disability and a mental impairment. And so I 160 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,119 Speaker 2: am tending to those concerns with regard to this bill going. 161 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: Forward, Senator. The Deputy Chief Minister Nicole Madison was on 162 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: the show earlier this morning as part of the Week 163 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: that was. She says she wants to know why you've 164 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: failed to stand up for Territorians on this one. 165 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: Well, I want to know why she does, why she 166 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: disregards the human rights of children of those with a 167 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: disability or a mental impairment, and why she's also allowed 168 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: for alcohol and crime to destroy the territory. You know, 169 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 2: they can make these accusations, but we know what the 170 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 2: state of the territory is right now, and I can 171 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: say with my hand on my heart that I don't 172 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: trust this government with decisions around that deal with the 173 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: lives of Territorians because the track record, their track record 174 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: speaks loud and clear. I know she had a whinge 175 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: about their not being in our senators, Well she should know. 176 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: This is a conversation more broadly about statehood and that's 177 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: where I'm happy to go. I'm prepared to go down 178 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: that path. And if the Territory government is that concerned, 179 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: then they should be talking to Territorians about statehood as 180 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: well and allowing Territorians to make that decision with their vote. 181 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: Senator. I know, look, I know that people are going 182 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: to be pretty divided on this one. By and large, 183 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: we get a lot of support on the show for 184 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: this change around territory rights and around the Territory Rights Bill. 185 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: I know I have got a message that came through 186 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: a little bit earlier this morning from Joe, and it says, 187 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: good morning, Katie. Well, I never thought i'd say this, 188 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: but I actually agree with the government at the moment, 189 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: and I think that Just Enterprise has got it wrong. 190 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: I heard her on the ABC radio this morning, and 191 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: this is the first time it sounds like she doesn't 192 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: have a point. It sounded like she was arguing just 193 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: to stop the bill proceeding, and for no reason. I 194 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: hope that she's not going to start playing politics like 195 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: so many other politicians do, because up until this point, 196 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: she's only ever spoken about real Northern Territory issues and 197 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: real Northern Territory people. That is from one of our 198 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: regular listeners, Joe. 199 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 2: And look, I know, like I. 200 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: Said, I know a lot of people have got really 201 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: differing opinions here, but there are going to be people 202 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: screaming at the radio this morning saying, you know, I 203 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: didn't think that the Senator would vote this way. 204 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: Well, look, as I said, the bill, the final decision 205 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: hasn't been determined. The bill is not going to be stopped. 206 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: So people need to stop being concerned about this bill 207 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 2: being stopped. That's not what I'm trying to do. I 208 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: need to understand that I am pushing for safeguards. That 209 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: is what I am doing with regards to this bill. 210 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: People seem to think that it's gone through and that 211 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 2: I've voted against it and then voted against territory the 212 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: rights of territoriums. That is not the case. I'm voting. 213 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: I'm asking for amendments to be considered. That's what I'm 214 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 2: seeking to do. 215 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: Well, Senator just Centerprice. As always, we appreciate your time 216 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: this morning, and no doubt we'll probably talk to you 217 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: again about this over the next week or so. 218 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: No worries, thank you.