Speaker 1: A reaction that can make you feel out of body
Speaker 1: or not yourself, make you feel like a little kid,
Speaker 1: a fight or flight.
Speaker 2: It literally is instinctual, primal. I feel like you have
Speaker 2: to get to a huge level of work to realize
Speaker 2: you're having a trauma response when you're having the trauma response.
Speaker 2: Obviously Mom passed away when I was younger, so then
Speaker 2: I didn't have the softness of a mother when I
Speaker 2: had my own child.
Speaker 1: We are a traumatized nation and people, and I think
Speaker 1: just black people in general not traumatized in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. Mom always always be careful. Hi, I'm Amanda
Speaker 1: and I'm Rumby.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Slayered podcast.
Speaker 1: We're part of the Black Past Network, part by iHeart
Speaker 1: and as you may already know, we're recording a live
Speaker 1: in studio here in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Yeah Bittersweet Studios. Such a beautiful setup today done by
Speaker 2: Pink Lady Picnics. Is so grateful to be in this
Speaker 2: welcoming safe space.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Maggie behind the camera. Yes, it's been
Speaker 1: holding us down to so black women or black powered
Speaker 1: female owned businesses doing the thing and that's why we're
Speaker 1: so excited.
Speaker 2: Yes, so so, especially when you want to talk about
Speaker 2: something really vulnerable like tuma. I feel like the people
Speaker 2: you're around, people that surround you, the space you're in
Speaker 2: is very very important for such like vulnerable conversation.
Speaker 1: Absolutely and to feel like you you don't need to
Speaker 1: mince your words or like you know, you can just
Speaker 1: be who you are. This great. So, yeah, we're talking
Speaker 1: about trauma and its manifestation in our lives. How does
Speaker 1: personal trauma manifest in your life? Do you feel? Have
Speaker 1: you clocked it, stay triggered?
Speaker 2: You know what this is? I guess therapy speech right
Speaker 2: where you don't know what trauma. You know what trauma is,
Speaker 2: but sometimes you might even recognize you're going through it
Speaker 2: all that it's manifest in other parts of your life.
Speaker 2: You think I'm fine, Especially as Black women, we'remen to
Speaker 2: be strong and have it all together. And I think
Speaker 2: our generation is really beginning to question that if are
Speaker 2: we's from do we have it all together?
Speaker 1: Not at all?
Speaker 2: Doesn't it manifest in other ways and creep up in
Speaker 2: ways you don't expect?
Speaker 1: I think it's definitely. Yeah, you're coping, so you think
Speaker 1: this is not It's happened to me many times. I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm not affected, I'm not emotional. I'm not and then
Speaker 1: it's like, actually, it's it's affected. So it's so true
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't realize it, and only after the
Speaker 1: fact you realize that.
Speaker 2: But when you go back to the scene of the crime,
Speaker 2: like when you return home, you will spend a lot
Speaker 2: of time with family, and then you realize, oh, have
Speaker 2: I not healed and coped? I've just avoided yes, yo,
Speaker 2: go on, So what is let's maybe define trauma because
Speaker 2: as you said, it's therapy speak, and we'll hear trauma, trauma, trauma, trigger, trigger, triggered,
Speaker 2: you know, trauma response.
Speaker 1: How would you define trauma for me?
Speaker 2: Personally? It's something that you would have gone through seeing
Speaker 2: being a part of that's not the norm, yeah, or
Speaker 2: healthy or healthy norm, and you find or are fourthd
Speaker 2: to find ways to live with it. Yes, yeah, So say, okay,
Speaker 2: you went through that, now what? Yes, you know you
Speaker 2: went through that whole huge thing, now what? And a
Speaker 2: lot of people, a lot of people just sweep it
Speaker 2: under the rug and then that's when it starts to
Speaker 2: manifest and come out and they get triggered by everything.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people are nowadays are beginning to
Speaker 2: address it and actually go back that in a child, yes,
Speaker 2: all the way back to their childhood. I mean what
Speaker 2: about for you?
Speaker 1: I think trauma is for me, painful experiences that you
Speaker 1: have in your life, whether in childhood through to yesterday today, whatever,
Speaker 1: that affect your nervous system, that instill a reaction that
Speaker 1: can make you feel out of body or not yourself,
Speaker 1: make you feel like a little kid, fight or flight,
Speaker 1: You freeze ads where you spiral and maybe start thinking
Speaker 1: worst case scenarios all over. So I really feel like
Speaker 1: trauma is that it's like it creates this reaction in
Speaker 1: you that is not where you feel uns your baseline
Speaker 1: essentially and yeah, unsafe, and you feel like violated or vulnerable.
Speaker 1: And then there are ripple effects there where you may
Speaker 1: cope as a manicet in in in different ways, whether
Speaker 1: it's being sweeping under the rug or maybe now anytime
Speaker 1: you someone speaks to you in a certain way, you're
Speaker 1: like ready to like take you back, to take you back,
Speaker 1: or if you start fighting and like, oh, don't talk
Speaker 1: to me like that, you know. So that's how I
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And obviously you can manifest in different ways
Speaker 2: like the physical you can actually literally feel sick reliving
Speaker 2: the moment or you know, dealing with the consequences of
Speaker 2: that moment, the traumatic event. Yes, you know. It can
Speaker 2: be emotional where you're like literally an emotional wreck, panic attacks,
Speaker 2: all that stuff where you're like, I can't I can't
Speaker 2: get past this.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, for sure, And I think doctor I've said
Speaker 1: this before. I think on a TikTok around he speaks
Speaker 1: about a lot of sort of autoimmune diseases are prevalent
Speaker 1: in women because what happens when you experience trauma and
Speaker 1: you excuse me, when you don't address it and don't
Speaker 1: deal with it, it then manifests physically in the form of
Speaker 1: autoimmune diseases, and your body is almost like saying this
Speaker 1: is not okay. But sometimes when you suppress that, then
Speaker 1: you become ill and cancer and all these kinds of things.
Speaker 1: And then of course, emotionally is like maybe you're off kilter,
Speaker 1: maybe you start being defensive, maybe you become a lot
Speaker 1: over emotional, you don't know how to regulate. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're just like in tears when a second ago,
Speaker 1: so so many way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and behavioral right, lots of people will like do
Speaker 2: actions that don't make sense, and then you realize, oh,
Speaker 2: it's for them, that's their flight or flight freeze or
Speaker 2: for my response.
Speaker 1: Yes exactly.
Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes we do it subconsciously and also
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like we can suppress it for years
Speaker 2: and then you think and then it can just all
Speaker 2: come back back again, which is what I was saying
Speaker 2: when you go back to the scene of the crime.
Speaker 2: Because you can be away from home for like six
Speaker 2: seven years and never feel any which way triggered, and
Speaker 2: then the moment you land, something happens, or you see
Speaker 2: someone or you you know some people PTSD all that stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, it's yes, And when we think about triggers,
Speaker 1: I think we're saying it's like something happens that your
Speaker 1: reference goes back to that moment, that moment of pain
Speaker 1: or whatever you experience, and then you act out of character, yeah,
Speaker 1: or you start behaving a certain way, yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: taking you to that. So you're trying to either protect
Speaker 1: yourself from not being hurt again, yeah, or does that
Speaker 1: make sense.
Speaker 2: That or you try to even do it sometimes even differently,
Speaker 2: like had you done this, this would have been so
Speaker 2: then now you over extend that response because then you're like,
Speaker 2: oh no, no, it's not exactly you said. It's not gonna
Speaker 2: happen to me again, can't happen to me again? And
Speaker 2: then example just shut down completely. I mean as a
Speaker 2: people being Zimbabwean, people ask us about our economy and
Speaker 2: you know, being dictatorship. But those some of the stuff
Speaker 2: that happened during that time was very traumatic.
Speaker 1: Very very very traumatized nation and people, and I think
Speaker 1: just black people in general are traumatized in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. But do you feel like traumas trivialized?
Speaker 2: Certainly because it's just that notion that oh, who doesn't
Speaker 2: have issues or who doesn't have we all got paid. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like we're not gonna all, you know, cry about it
Speaker 2: or you know what I mean like this, I feel
Speaker 2: like people just and also don't. But I don't think
Speaker 2: people want to be stuck there. So the only feeling
Speaker 2: is Okay, I don't want to sit and moan and
Speaker 2: grown up about this, so let's move on, you know.
Speaker 2: So then you know, stuff, some stuff becomes unspoken about.
Speaker 2: You know, oh, we already dealt with that. Now we're
Speaker 2: onto the next thing. You know, have we really but
Speaker 2: we haven't. More often than we have not because sometimes
Speaker 2: when you you fight with your African parents and they
Speaker 2: bring up something they used to do as a kid,
Speaker 2: they're like, whoa talk about your inner child lug? You know.
Speaker 1: And I think our story as black people, people of color, Africans, Zimbabweans,
Speaker 1: we can go on women. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of things we've had to fight if you think about
Speaker 1: women in general, like the right to vote, the right
Speaker 1: to you know, our own bodies, the right Then you
Speaker 1: go like slavery, then you go colonization, then you go
Speaker 1: like for or economic empowerment, so many things you constantly
Speaker 1: have to fight for. So, as you rightly said, we've
Speaker 1: all suffered. So it's like, so what now we have
Speaker 1: to go? That's how I think we've survived. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just you keep survival mode. Yeah, literally, otherwise we do.
Speaker 2: You don't have time, like even when you think about
Speaker 2: it now bringing it into our context now people who
Speaker 2: are living in war tone areas, or you don't have
Speaker 2: time to be like, ah, what did happen last week?
Speaker 2: Living for today for the now service. So I feel
Speaker 2: like sometimes we as a people, we are stuck there
Speaker 2: and we're still living in such a way and I
Speaker 2: know this season where like about soft life and leaning
Speaker 2: into a feminine, but definitely our masculine is right up
Speaker 2: there because we've had to dig deep and do things
Speaker 2: that are you know, to make things work, and for
Speaker 2: so long. And when you do that for so long
Speaker 2: and that's all you know to unpack that, it's a lot.
Speaker 2: It's a lot.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I find for me it manners first. And
Speaker 1: even when I don't need to be the fighter yeah
Speaker 1: or strong's I'm already in that, and it's like you
Speaker 1: have to take note that no someone wants to help me,
Speaker 1: or I.
Speaker 2: Don't have to trusting someone else.
Speaker 1: Trusting someone else, So then it's like you're constantly having
Speaker 1: to check yourself that Okay, you don't need to fight this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Why do you think Zimbabwans especially have unresolved trauma?
Speaker 1: I think, as I alluded to, like when you've been
Speaker 1: colonized and then you have to go through a war
Speaker 1: to like liberate yourself as a country. So you've seen
Speaker 1: a lot, right, So there's that aspect. Then the world
Speaker 1: opens up to you and you're like, okay, now we
Speaker 1: have our freedom. But I don't think talking about trauma
Speaker 1: or mental health was a thing back in the eighties
Speaker 1: when we were liberated. So then ow it was like
Speaker 1: get on with this economic freedom, so to speak. And
Speaker 1: then obviously we know what happened, you know with farm
Speaker 1: invasions and so on and so forth, and theymy spiraling
Speaker 1: as a result, and political issues and all these things.
Speaker 1: So things have just started coming at us from all
Speaker 1: angles and losing you know, wealth overnight or you know,
Speaker 1: investments overnight, and then just trying to make ends meet.
Speaker 1: Then you're trying to just make sure your children are educated,
Speaker 1: You're trying to start air life somewhere. You all these things,
Speaker 1: so literally it just survive. You need to survive, go go.
Speaker 1: There's no time because if you sit in it, you'll
Speaker 1: never get out of it, right. And then there's other
Speaker 1: aspects socially, right, like domestic violence we've spoken about before.
Speaker 1: There's the patriarchy side of things where what I say
Speaker 1: goes no matter how you feel, how you're suffering in
Speaker 1: this context, abuse, emotional, financial abuses, rife because of the economy,
Speaker 1: So there's all these things that are just like blowing up.
Speaker 1: And then on a global scale, like I've about war
Speaker 1: and you know it, then a phobia and tensions between
Speaker 1: nations and it's a lot. So when you're just trying
Speaker 1: to navigate that, I think sometimes people are like, why
Speaker 1: do I need to suddenly figure out my emotions here?
Speaker 1: We keep it moving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you don't want to kick us kicking
Speaker 2: up dust. Right, stuff is settled or seemingly settled, and
Speaker 2: you don't want to be the one who's like, people are,
Speaker 2: come on, man, now in twenty twenty five, why I
Speaker 2: bring up things from like twenty years ago. But I
Speaker 2: think that's the only way it can be resolved, like
Speaker 2: going back and actually, and also I think for Zimbabweans
Speaker 2: in particular, it's like like for us, we both said,
Speaker 2: you know, we left zim and then now we're trying
Speaker 2: to deal with childhood trauma or whatever, but we also
Speaker 2: have a soft landing place after because all these things
Speaker 2: are brought up to the surface and then it's like
Speaker 2: you need to start dealing with them, right, and then
Speaker 2: the space you're now in needs to support that past
Speaker 2: trauma for you to be able to deal. So I
Speaker 2: feel like Zimbabwans don't still feel safe yet at all,
Speaker 2: so then it's like, well, as long as they're unsafe,
Speaker 2: then they have to say survive a mode because they
Speaker 2: can't be soft and and furl and open and let
Speaker 2: you in, because then that leaves them vulnerable, right because
Speaker 2: the space they're still in is still doesn't support them
Speaker 2: being said.
Speaker 1: You know, it begs the question I'm going to ask you.
Speaker 1: As the season we've been about the soft girl era
Speaker 1: and like celebrating our soft side? Are we lucky and
Speaker 1: privilege that we even tend to have that for sure?
Speaker 1: And the guilt associated that, Okay, we get to have this.
Speaker 1: And this is another thing where social media gets very
Speaker 1: tricky is that you know, you see other people living
Speaker 1: the soft you know, jet setting, what what, and there's
Speaker 1: other people who have a completely different experience of it,
Speaker 1: and it's saying it's possible and we also want that.
Speaker 1: I don't think people are sitting there suffering saying I
Speaker 1: don't want a good life or a soft life, but
Speaker 1: their privilege of well, it is it's definitely very privileged.
Speaker 1: I mean, even having this conversation right now in this
Speaker 1: beautiful setting, it's a privileged space, a safe space, but
Speaker 1: it is it only does come with access and privilege. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure girls in Zimbabwe would love to
Speaker 1: swop with us right now in a rearly second, right,
Speaker 1: But then.
Speaker 2: It's like that's not reality.
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes you have to keep checking yourself
Speaker 1: and say, like, yes, life is harder because you know,
Speaker 1: even when you're living away from home, you have to
Speaker 1: work twice three times as hard to get half as much.
Speaker 1: But sometimes taking stock and saying, oh, at least I've
Speaker 1: gotten to do this, and I've gotten and the space
Speaker 1: is safe. Exactly exactly how does trauma affect our relationships
Speaker 1: and self like relationship with self and with others as
Speaker 1: a result.
Speaker 2: Like it per me, it's in you, everything doesn't like I.
Speaker 2: I mean, we just talked about having kids on not
Speaker 2: having kids and a lot of people's birth stories of
Speaker 2: how they bring these kids into the world. I filled
Speaker 2: with trauma and for my own personal journey, I obviously
Speaker 2: my mom passed away when I was younger, so then
Speaker 2: I didn't have the softness of a mother when I
Speaker 2: had my own child. You know, I love seeing those
Speaker 2: tiktoks when like they're like, oh, you know, my my
Speaker 2: mom was excited about the kid, but she also has
Speaker 2: her own baby who just had a baby. You know,
Speaker 2: you see the mom rushing in and like trying to
Speaker 2: like touch the daughter and the grandchild is another thought,
Speaker 2: which is beautiful for me to see, right, But then
Speaker 2: I obviously didn't get to experience that where it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: from birth, I'm already still just solo, and obviously you
Speaker 2: try to find your own ways. My cousin came over
Speaker 2: to help me, but it's not the same and she
Speaker 2: wasn't trying to take up that role, which is fine,
Speaker 2: but like it just makes you think, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: it's gone through such a traumatic event and further trauma
Speaker 2: of not having the right person or the person I
Speaker 2: think is right to support me through. So I feel
Speaker 2: like it's just one of those things where it's it
Speaker 2: keeps coming up, right, the fact that I lost my
Speaker 2: mom young. I lost my mom, and it is a
Speaker 2: traumatic thing and it's not something you can just be like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I've done with it now. It will always
Speaker 2: but not always be moments. But I think now the
Speaker 2: key is how do you deal with it? You know,
Speaker 2: you can sit there and wallow, of course, and some
Speaker 2: days you need it, you need to have that ca
Speaker 2: tactic feeling of crying it all out. But some days
Speaker 2: you just realize you know what, at least I could
Speaker 2: still have been my cousin here. At least a roomby
Speaker 2: could come over, you know, at least you know too,
Speaker 2: could come over and help me. I have a supportive partner, like, so,
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where you you let yourself
Speaker 2: go there, but then you also let yourself be kind
Speaker 2: to yourself. Well it does. It does permeate into everything,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's why therapy also comes in clurks,
Speaker 2: but also therapy, as you said, is.
Speaker 1: A privileged face privilege. I think trauma shows up in
Speaker 1: how you relate in relationships like partnership, friendship. Like for me,
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, if I'm going through a challenging especially
Speaker 1: with friends, I'm like, well I can move on, Like
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm quick to just like shut off. And
Speaker 1: I think that is a trauma response.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I won't be hurt, so I'll just shut
Speaker 2: I'll be fine.
Speaker 1: I don't mean anybody anyway, you know. So you see
Speaker 1: that and you have to actively work on like, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's how do we move through this in this relationship.
Speaker 1: I think it shows up in sometimes not letting your
Speaker 1: guard down. I think for a long time, I don't
Speaker 1: trust men. Yeah, And I mean men don't make it
Speaker 1: easy for us to trust them. I'm just like, not
Speaker 1: all men, you know, I think they're the oposite. I
Speaker 1: think there's some sort of you know, but aside from that,
Speaker 1: like learning to allow yourself to be loved, for someone
Speaker 1: to be gentle with you, and not expect the worst always,
Speaker 1: Like I think you start thinking all the way, oh
Speaker 1: you're gon' turn now, Okay, this is gonna switch up now,
Speaker 1: which is very sad. Yeah, but it is a trauma
Speaker 1: response because I think how many aunts and relatives, mothers,
Speaker 1: cousins did we see growing up going through some really
Speaker 1: traumatic relationships where you're like, why do people get married?
Speaker 1: Why do people try and have partners or children together?
Speaker 1: So a lot of and learning has to be done
Speaker 1: and consuming different content, Like I think sometimes the negative
Speaker 1: is always so prevalent, and then the good is not
Speaker 1: always to the surface, and we don't shine a light
Speaker 1: on it enough. But you know, there's I really thinking,
Speaker 1: there's a scale all the time. There's negative and there's positive,
Speaker 1: and you really have to seek out the positive to help.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like trauma is mainly sometimes the
Speaker 2: trauma response rather reflection because in the moment, you just
Speaker 2: like it literally is instinctual, primal. I feel like you
Speaker 2: have to get to a huge level of work to
Speaker 2: realize you're having a trauma response. When you're having the
Speaker 2: trauma response, usually a lot of times that's when you
Speaker 2: have to get comfortable with apologizing. So the apologies to
Speaker 2: your friends when you're like, do something like out of character,
Speaker 2: then you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. You
Speaker 2: know this space I'm in or this reminded me of
Speaker 2: this and that. So I feel like it's also having
Speaker 2: safe people around you that you know, you don't have
Speaker 2: to explain yourself to every single person you meet. But
Speaker 2: sometimes when you do something that's really especially when it's
Speaker 2: in the negative and like shouting at people, raising your voice,
Speaker 2: all these kinds of things which might also end up
Speaker 2: triggering someone else, we have to always reflect and bring
Speaker 2: ourselves back and find explanation and then also find ways
Speaker 2: of coping. Yes, because you don't exist healthy. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: can't just shout it every and sorry.
Speaker 1: And you know, we talk about this often.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of.
Speaker 1: Therapy speak where people try and use therapy to use
Speaker 1: their behavior. Jonah Hill and you know, being douchebags, and
Speaker 1: you know I didn't. I don't like you because talking
Speaker 1: to other men, because it's a traumat and I think
Speaker 1: it triggers are going to fix yourself?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, type of be able to talk to you exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think for me, something I've I heard not
Speaker 1: too long ago was that emotions last for a couple
Speaker 1: of seconds, if you know, like, and so it's about
Speaker 1: how long we allow ourselves in that. So I think
Speaker 1: similarly with trauma responses. I think it's normal to feel
Speaker 1: on emotion, and as you work through it, maybe it
Speaker 1: becomes less extreme, maybe less where it comes. Yes, it
Speaker 1: doesn't last as long. And I think it's normal to
Speaker 1: feel certain things, but it's how we then address it.
Speaker 1: So it's like this hurts me. You could sit in there,
Speaker 1: I'm so hurt on me, I'm the victim, and you
Speaker 1: can wallow for life or you know, weeks on it.
Speaker 1: But it's like this hurt me? Why did it hurt me?
Speaker 1: And why does it bring up these feelings? And what
Speaker 1: could be done differently? Is it something I could have done?
Speaker 1: Is it something that could have been done by someone else?
Speaker 1: And how do I go from allowing ourselves to feel
Speaker 1: but also saying Okay, clearly I still feel triggered by this.
Speaker 2: I need to work on yeah, because yeah, I'm being
Speaker 2: a douchebag. Does not or feeling a trauma responses being
Speaker 2: like still still a douche, your douche and you see it.
Speaker 1: Yeahs have gone more and more of these men are coming.
Speaker 2: On look at but that's mainly men. It's not like common.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, you know ramses like saying oh because
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, don't do that. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: If I trauma as a migrant in America, you can't
Speaker 2: take it out on the Americans. You want to get
Speaker 2: like yeah, I feel like I feel like yeah, therapies
Speaker 2: speak and people saying oh I'm traumatized has become trivialized
Speaker 2: as well, so it's like people just use it as
Speaker 2: like almost like a badge of but in a.
Speaker 1: Bad way comes the trauma bonding. He's telling her people died,
Speaker 1: and he's meeting her dad and saying can I have animal?
Speaker 1: And the next thing is like I never want to
Speaker 1: see you again.
Speaker 2: Then they didn't have fun in their relationship because that's because.
Speaker 1: You're basing all that. And I think I think something
Speaker 1: we need to learn in life. Just because someone tells
Speaker 1: you all their trauma doesn't mean that it makes a
Speaker 1: relationship stronger. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't make the
Speaker 1: relationship more valuable for because, as we say, trauma bonding.
Speaker 1: But I think it's like you shouldn't celebrate like, oh,
Speaker 1: they opened up for me, It's like, how are they
Speaker 1: healing from this?
Speaker 2: Is probably those are questions you need to be and
Speaker 2: why the trauma dumping on me?
Speaker 1: There's exactly I think we used to especially I think
Speaker 1: when we were growing up, like when guys didn't open up.
Speaker 1: So when a guy like opened up a little bit, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, she's confiding, Yeah, specially confiding or is
Speaker 1: it dumping and then just like moving on?
Speaker 2: And guys are really good with that. A lot of
Speaker 2: couples break up after something traumatic happens, losing a child,
Speaker 2: you know, miscarriages, all these things, because it's hard when
Speaker 2: you're both trying to deal and to also be there
Speaker 2: for each other. So and that's sometimes really the only
Speaker 2: thing is therapy where you can deal with such. But
Speaker 2: what do you think about our people, because obviously miscarriages
Speaker 2: and death in the family or whatever it is still
Speaker 2: happens in spaces where therapy is not so accessible or acceptable.
Speaker 2: How do you think they themselves at the funeral? Do
Speaker 2: you reckon they just use religion in that space.
Speaker 1: I think our people don't have much in terms of
Speaker 1: like money, or like self like healing, in terms of therapy,
Speaker 1: as you said, and like all these things. So one
Speaker 1: thing we cling onto is religion. But I think we
Speaker 1: need to be very clear. Religion helps to give hope,
Speaker 1: but it can't be the only answer for everything, because
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we use religion to suppress feelings and
Speaker 1: to say everything.
Speaker 2: Is all right, there's the reason, God, God.
Speaker 1: We don't we force acceptance without going through the steps
Speaker 1: of grief, do you understand? And anger? And we just
Speaker 1: say it is what it is and must accept And
Speaker 1: we almost hide behind religion as a way of like
Speaker 1: all will be well, but are you well? Are you
Speaker 1: truly well? And will it be well for you?
Speaker 2: And you see it all the time with Zimbabweans, like
Speaker 2: if you just randomly walk into a and ask someone
Speaker 2: a question or annoying them, they'll you will try to
Speaker 2: physically harm you because it's like get out of my mind,
Speaker 2: Like it's just yeah, we are so quick to you
Speaker 2: have these like negative emotions because really, underneath it all,
Speaker 2: we're so dissatisfied with so many things, so disappointed in
Speaker 2: so many ways. That doesn't take much to trigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not at all.
Speaker 2: Like I remember even you know, when you do something
Speaker 2: for I'll pay you them, and no pay me now,
Speaker 2: because there's that you won't get that you won't pay
Speaker 2: and you'll run away and you're thinking No. Usually with
Speaker 2: businesses we do fifty percent, like it's just normal, you know,
Speaker 2: a deposit before and then after the job. But then
Speaker 2: they're just so worried that we sometimes they need the
Speaker 2: money to then also has of other things, so it's
Speaker 2: like there is so much there to unpack. I feel
Speaker 2: as the people do you.
Speaker 1: Think and the barb Wins will ever get right or
Speaker 1: feel right.
Speaker 2: I feel like as long as the space isn't safe, no,
Speaker 2: then no, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know if you'l and see it or not. And it
Speaker 1: really hurts to say in our generation are people doing well?
Speaker 2: You know what made me think that when we had
Speaker 2: a bit of relief when the US dollar first started
Speaker 2: and now things are flowing there when things tightened again,
Speaker 2: now you can't get get us easily. You actually rely
Speaker 2: on these remittance agencies. And then when the cos is
Speaker 2: like having to go overseas to England mainly to do
Speaker 2: care work jobs, people like rush to it. So it's
Speaker 2: like I feel like, yeah, we're just still figuring it out,
Speaker 2: trying to We're still in survival mode.
Speaker 1: If there's one thing about Zimbabweans, we are survivors. I
Speaker 1: think that is one thing we'll make away and tug
Speaker 1: it out. And I think it's a blessing and a curse.
Speaker 1: But you, yeah, have we been through that?
Speaker 2: How do you reckon? We can seek help with resolve
Speaker 2: in Frome. I mean, I Alwa's talked about therapy, but
Speaker 2: even on a day to day.
Speaker 1: I think it's what you feed yourself, whether it's what
Speaker 1: you listen to, what you watch, what who you follow,
Speaker 1: what you're reading, It's all the ways and your community,
Speaker 1: who you surround yourself with. If you surround yourself with
Speaker 1: people who continuously bring you down and are negative, I
Speaker 1: think you need to realize that things within your power
Speaker 1: to control, and those are things like sometimes you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily choose your family, but you can choose your friends,
Speaker 1: You can choose way spend your time. You can choose
Speaker 1: you know, what you read, what you ingest that all.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of also self talk, like how
Speaker 1: do you perceive yourself? And are you kind to yourself?
Speaker 1: Like something that I've had to learn is to be
Speaker 1: kind to my inner child and allow her to speak
Speaker 1: up sometimes when I never listen to her. Like, so
Speaker 1: sometimes you be like I feel very neglected or I
Speaker 1: feel very unsafe here or not protected, or you didn't
Speaker 1: have my back when you sort of choose to appease
Speaker 1: someone else over your own feelings, like I can bring
Speaker 1: up those traumas and then it's like, oh, actually I
Speaker 1: need to speak up for myself or look out for myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's being really in tune with self and taking
Speaker 1: that time journaling. You know, I'm a proponent.
Speaker 2: This is a journal Curd. I mean, I mean essentially
Speaker 2: you've said at all, it's like identifying your triggers and
Speaker 2: in some ways trying to manage that, you know, and
Speaker 2: also your coping mechanisms. Yeah, alcohol not being one of them. Please.
Speaker 2: You know, I know a lot of people like you know,
Speaker 2: drugs and alcohol to forget it all or to but
Speaker 2: really long term, you're not forgetting it at all, you're
Speaker 2: just setting it aside for another time. You're sitting aside
Speaker 2: for your future, you know. So I feel like and maybe, yeah,
Speaker 2: sometimes we do look within communities if you don't have
Speaker 2: therapy accessible people to reach out to, people you can
Speaker 2: trust to not to trauma dump so to speak as much,
Speaker 2: but just to work through things. And sometimes I feel,
Speaker 2: especially if your trauma is recent, the quicker you get
Speaker 2: to it the bear. So sometimes you're like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if African parents have been telling you a story
Speaker 2: from tittis my guy. Yeah, because and only when it
Speaker 2: starts to fast, they also start to lose perspective, like
Speaker 2: now the story is told with a bit of spice,
Speaker 2: but over years you've mouthed over it, a mouth recreated
Speaker 2: and yeah, and that's something quite what happened or how
Speaker 2: you know. And sometimes it's misunderstandings too, within family structures especially,
Speaker 2: So I feel like with trauma, the sooner you can address,
Speaker 2: oh there's a problem here and try to find ways
Speaker 2: to resolve it. The quicker, sometimes you don't get the opportunity.
Speaker 2: You know, people have been displaced and lost, the people
Speaker 2: in Ukraine and starts to done. All these people lost
Speaker 2: their homes. You can't really just you know, it's something
Speaker 2: you have to really work through as a family. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I feel like actually even recognizing it's there true
Speaker 2: is also quite crucial.
Speaker 1: True. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being
Speaker 1: a safe space for me to work of my trouses.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening as always. We appreciate it,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you guys on the next episode.
Speaker 2: Bye, guys to those