1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: A reaction that can make you feel out of body 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: or not yourself, make you feel like a little kid, 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: a fight or flight. 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: It literally is instinctual, primal. I feel like you have 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: to get to a huge level of work to realize 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: you're having a trauma response when you're having the trauma response. 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: Obviously Mom passed away when I was younger, so then 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 2: I didn't have the softness of a mother when I 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: had my own child. 10 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: We are a traumatized nation and people, and I think 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: just black people in general not traumatized in a lot 12 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: of ways. Mom always always be careful. Hi, I'm Amanda 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: and I'm Rumby. 14 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: Welcome to Slayered podcast. 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: We're part of the Black Past Network, part by iHeart 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: and as you may already know, we're recording a live 17 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: in studio here in Melbourne. 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 2: Yeah Bittersweet Studios. Such a beautiful setup today done by 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 2: Pink Lady Picnics. Is so grateful to be in this 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: welcoming safe space. 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: Shout out to Maggie behind the camera. Yes, it's been 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: holding us down to so black women or black powered 23 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: female owned businesses doing the thing and that's why we're 24 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: so excited. 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: Yes, so so, especially when you want to talk about 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: something really vulnerable like tuma. I feel like the people 27 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: you're around, people that surround you, the space you're in 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: is very very important for such like vulnerable conversation. 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely and to feel like you you don't need to 30 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: mince your words or like you know, you can just 31 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: be who you are. This great. So, yeah, we're talking 32 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: about trauma and its manifestation in our lives. How does 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: personal trauma manifest in your life? Do you feel? Have 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: you clocked it, stay triggered? 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: You know what this is? I guess therapy speech right 36 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: where you don't know what trauma. You know what trauma is, 37 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: but sometimes you might even recognize you're going through it 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: all that it's manifest in other parts of your life. 39 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: You think I'm fine, Especially as Black women, we'remen to 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: be strong and have it all together. And I think 41 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: our generation is really beginning to question that if are 42 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: we's from do we have it all together? 43 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: Not at all? 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: Doesn't it manifest in other ways and creep up in 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: ways you don't expect? 46 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: I think it's definitely. Yeah, you're coping, so you think 47 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: this is not It's happened to me many times. I'm fine, 48 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: I'm not affected, I'm not emotional. I'm not and then 49 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: it's like, actually, it's it's affected. So it's so true 50 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't realize it, and only after the 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: fact you realize that. 52 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: But when you go back to the scene of the crime, 53 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: like when you return home, you will spend a lot 54 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: of time with family, and then you realize, oh, have 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: I not healed and coped? I've just avoided yes, yo, 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: go on, So what is let's maybe define trauma because 57 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: as you said, it's therapy speak, and we'll hear trauma, trauma, trauma, trigger, trigger, triggered, 58 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: you know, trauma response. 59 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: How would you define trauma for me? 60 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: Personally? It's something that you would have gone through seeing 61 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: being a part of that's not the norm, yeah, or 62 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: healthy or healthy norm, and you find or are fourthd 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: to find ways to live with it. Yes, yeah, So say, okay, 64 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: you went through that, now what? Yes, you know you 65 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: went through that whole huge thing, now what? And a 66 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: lot of people, a lot of people just sweep it 67 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: under the rug and then that's when it starts to 68 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: manifest and come out and they get triggered by everything. 69 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: And a lot of people are nowadays are beginning to 70 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: address it and actually go back that in a child, yes, 71 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: all the way back to their childhood. I mean what 72 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: about for you? 73 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: I think trauma is for me, painful experiences that you 74 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: have in your life, whether in childhood through to yesterday today, whatever, 75 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: that affect your nervous system, that instill a reaction that 76 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: can make you feel out of body or not yourself, 77 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: make you feel like a little kid, fight or flight, 78 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: You freeze ads where you spiral and maybe start thinking 79 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: worst case scenarios all over. So I really feel like 80 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: trauma is that it's like it creates this reaction in 81 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: you that is not where you feel uns your baseline 82 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: essentially and yeah, unsafe, and you feel like violated or vulnerable. 83 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: And then there are ripple effects there where you may 84 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: cope as a manicet in in in different ways, whether 85 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: it's being sweeping under the rug or maybe now anytime 86 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: you someone speaks to you in a certain way, you're 87 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: like ready to like take you back, to take you back, 88 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: or if you start fighting and like, oh, don't talk 89 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: to me like that, you know. So that's how I 90 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: see it. 91 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And obviously you can manifest in different ways 92 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: like the physical you can actually literally feel sick reliving 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: the moment or you know, dealing with the consequences of 94 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: that moment, the traumatic event. Yes, you know. It can 95 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: be emotional where you're like literally an emotional wreck, panic attacks, 96 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 2: all that stuff where you're like, I can't I can't 97 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: get past this. 98 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, for sure, And I think doctor I've said 99 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: this before. I think on a TikTok around he speaks 100 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: about a lot of sort of autoimmune diseases are prevalent 101 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: in women because what happens when you experience trauma and 102 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: you excuse me, when you don't address it and don't 103 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: deal with it, it then manifests physically in the form of 104 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: autoimmune diseases, and your body is almost like saying this 105 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: is not okay. But sometimes when you suppress that, then 106 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: you become ill and cancer and all these kinds of things. 107 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: And then of course, emotionally is like maybe you're off kilter, 108 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: maybe you start being defensive, maybe you become a lot 109 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: over emotional, you don't know how to regulate. All of 110 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: a sudden, you're just like in tears when a second ago, 111 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: so so many way. 112 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and behavioral right, lots of people will like do 113 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: actions that don't make sense, and then you realize, oh, 114 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: it's for them, that's their flight or flight freeze or 115 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 2: for my response. 116 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: Yes exactly. 117 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: I feel like sometimes we do it subconsciously and also 118 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like we can suppress it for years 119 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: and then you think and then it can just all 120 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: come back back again, which is what I was saying 121 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: when you go back to the scene of the crime. 122 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: Because you can be away from home for like six 123 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: seven years and never feel any which way triggered, and 124 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: then the moment you land, something happens, or you see 125 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: someone or you you know some people PTSD all that stuff. 126 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's yes, And when we think about triggers, 127 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: I think we're saying it's like something happens that your 128 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: reference goes back to that moment, that moment of pain 129 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: or whatever you experience, and then you act out of character, yeah, 130 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: or you start behaving a certain way, yeah, because it's 131 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: taking you to that. So you're trying to either protect 132 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: yourself from not being hurt again, yeah, or does that 133 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: make sense. 134 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: That or you try to even do it sometimes even differently, 135 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: like had you done this, this would have been so 136 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: then now you over extend that response because then you're like, 137 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: oh no, no, it's not exactly you said. It's not gonna 138 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: happen to me again, can't happen to me again? And 139 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: then example just shut down completely. I mean as a 140 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: people being Zimbabwean, people ask us about our economy and 141 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 2: you know, being dictatorship. But those some of the stuff 142 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: that happened during that time was very traumatic. 143 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: Very very very traumatized nation and people, and I think 144 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: just black people in general are traumatized in a lot 145 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: of ways. But do you feel like traumas trivialized? 146 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: Certainly because it's just that notion that oh, who doesn't 147 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 2: have issues or who doesn't have we all got paid. Yeah, 148 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: like we're not gonna all, you know, cry about it 149 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: or you know what I mean like this, I feel 150 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 2: like people just and also don't. But I don't think 151 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: people want to be stuck there. So the only feeling 152 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 2: is Okay, I don't want to sit and moan and 153 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: grown up about this, so let's move on, you know. 154 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: So then you know, stuff, some stuff becomes unspoken about. 155 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: You know, oh, we already dealt with that. Now we're 156 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: onto the next thing. You know, have we really but 157 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 2: we haven't. More often than we have not because sometimes 158 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: when you you fight with your African parents and they 159 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: bring up something they used to do as a kid, 160 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: they're like, whoa talk about your inner child lug? You know. 161 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: And I think our story as black people, people of color, Africans, Zimbabweans, 162 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: we can go on women. I think there's a lot 163 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: of things we've had to fight if you think about 164 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: women in general, like the right to vote, the right 165 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: to you know, our own bodies, the right Then you 166 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: go like slavery, then you go colonization, then you go 167 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: like for or economic empowerment, so many things you constantly 168 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: have to fight for. So, as you rightly said, we've 169 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: all suffered. So it's like, so what now we have 170 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: to go? That's how I think we've survived. Yeah, it's 171 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: just you keep survival mode. Yeah, literally, otherwise we do. 172 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: You don't have time, like even when you think about 173 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: it now bringing it into our context now people who 174 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: are living in war tone areas, or you don't have 175 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: time to be like, ah, what did happen last week? 176 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: Living for today for the now service. So I feel 177 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: like sometimes we as a people, we are stuck there 178 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: and we're still living in such a way and I 179 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 2: know this season where like about soft life and leaning 180 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 2: into a feminine, but definitely our masculine is right up 181 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: there because we've had to dig deep and do things 182 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 2: that are you know, to make things work, and for 183 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: so long. And when you do that for so long 184 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: and that's all you know to unpack that, it's a lot. 185 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: It's a lot. 186 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: And sometimes I find for me it manners first. And 187 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: even when I don't need to be the fighter yeah 188 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: or strong's I'm already in that, and it's like you 189 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: have to take note that no someone wants to help me, 190 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: or I. 191 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: Don't have to trusting someone else. 192 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: Trusting someone else, So then it's like you're constantly having 193 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: to check yourself that Okay, you don't need to fight this. Yeah. 194 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: Why do you think Zimbabwans especially have unresolved trauma? 195 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: I think, as I alluded to, like when you've been 196 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: colonized and then you have to go through a war 197 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: to like liberate yourself as a country. So you've seen 198 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: a lot, right, So there's that aspect. Then the world 199 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: opens up to you and you're like, okay, now we 200 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: have our freedom. But I don't think talking about trauma 201 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: or mental health was a thing back in the eighties 202 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: when we were liberated. So then ow it was like 203 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: get on with this economic freedom, so to speak. And 204 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: then obviously we know what happened, you know with farm 205 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: invasions and so on and so forth, and theymy spiraling 206 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: as a result, and political issues and all these things. 207 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: So things have just started coming at us from all 208 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: angles and losing you know, wealth overnight or you know, 209 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: investments overnight, and then just trying to make ends meet. 210 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: Then you're trying to just make sure your children are educated, 211 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: You're trying to start air life somewhere. You all these things, 212 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: so literally it just survive. You need to survive, go go. 213 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: There's no time because if you sit in it, you'll 214 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: never get out of it, right. And then there's other 215 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: aspects socially, right, like domestic violence we've spoken about before. 216 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: There's the patriarchy side of things where what I say 217 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: goes no matter how you feel, how you're suffering in 218 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: this context, abuse, emotional, financial abuses, rife because of the economy, 219 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: So there's all these things that are just like blowing up. 220 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: And then on a global scale, like I've about war 221 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: and you know it, then a phobia and tensions between 222 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 1: nations and it's a lot. So when you're just trying 223 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: to navigate that, I think sometimes people are like, why 224 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: do I need to suddenly figure out my emotions here? 225 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: We keep it moving. 226 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and you don't want to kick us kicking 227 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: up dust. Right, stuff is settled or seemingly settled, and 228 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: you don't want to be the one who's like, people are, 229 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 2: come on, man, now in twenty twenty five, why I 230 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: bring up things from like twenty years ago. But I 231 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 2: think that's the only way it can be resolved, like 232 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: going back and actually, and also I think for Zimbabweans 233 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 2: in particular, it's like like for us, we both said, 234 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: you know, we left zim and then now we're trying 235 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 2: to deal with childhood trauma or whatever, but we also 236 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 2: have a soft landing place after because all these things 237 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 2: are brought up to the surface and then it's like 238 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 2: you need to start dealing with them, right, and then 239 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: the space you're now in needs to support that past 240 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: trauma for you to be able to deal. So I 241 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: feel like Zimbabwans don't still feel safe yet at all, 242 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 2: so then it's like, well, as long as they're unsafe, 243 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 2: then they have to say survive a mode because they 244 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: can't be soft and and furl and open and let 245 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: you in, because then that leaves them vulnerable, right because 246 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: the space they're still in is still doesn't support them 247 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 2: being said. 248 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: You know, it begs the question I'm going to ask you. 249 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: As the season we've been about the soft girl era 250 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: and like celebrating our soft side? Are we lucky and 251 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: privilege that we even tend to have that for sure? 252 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: And the guilt associated that, Okay, we get to have this. 253 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: And this is another thing where social media gets very 254 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: tricky is that you know, you see other people living 255 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: the soft you know, jet setting, what what, and there's 256 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: other people who have a completely different experience of it, 257 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: and it's saying it's possible and we also want that. 258 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: I don't think people are sitting there suffering saying I 259 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: don't want a good life or a soft life, but 260 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: their privilege of well, it is it's definitely very privileged. 261 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: I mean, even having this conversation right now in this 262 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: beautiful setting, it's a privileged space, a safe space, but 263 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: it is it only does come with access and privilege. Yes, 264 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure girls in Zimbabwe would love to 265 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: swop with us right now in a rearly second, right, 266 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: But then. 267 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: It's like that's not reality. 268 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes you have to keep checking yourself 269 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: and say, like, yes, life is harder because you know, 270 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: even when you're living away from home, you have to 271 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: work twice three times as hard to get half as much. 272 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: But sometimes taking stock and saying, oh, at least I've 273 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: gotten to do this, and I've gotten and the space 274 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: is safe. Exactly exactly how does trauma affect our relationships 275 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: and self like relationship with self and with others as 276 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: a result. 277 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: Like it per me, it's in you, everything doesn't like I. 278 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: I mean, we just talked about having kids on not 279 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: having kids and a lot of people's birth stories of 280 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: how they bring these kids into the world. I filled 281 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: with trauma and for my own personal journey, I obviously 282 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: my mom passed away when I was younger, so then 283 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: I didn't have the softness of a mother when I 284 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 2: had my own child. You know, I love seeing those 285 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: tiktoks when like they're like, oh, you know, my my 286 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: mom was excited about the kid, but she also has 287 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: her own baby who just had a baby. You know, 288 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: you see the mom rushing in and like trying to 289 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: like touch the daughter and the grandchild is another thought, 290 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: which is beautiful for me to see, right, But then 291 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: I obviously didn't get to experience that where it's like, okay, 292 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 2: from birth, I'm already still just solo, and obviously you 293 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: try to find your own ways. My cousin came over 294 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: to help me, but it's not the same and she 295 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: wasn't trying to take up that role, which is fine, 296 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: but like it just makes you think, oh my gosh, 297 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: it's gone through such a traumatic event and further trauma 298 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: of not having the right person or the person I 299 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: think is right to support me through. So I feel 300 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 2: like it's just one of those things where it's it 301 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: keeps coming up, right, the fact that I lost my 302 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: mom young. I lost my mom, and it is a 303 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: traumatic thing and it's not something you can just be like, 304 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: oh yeah, I've done with it now. It will always 305 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: but not always be moments. But I think now the 306 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 2: key is how do you deal with it? You know, 307 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: you can sit there and wallow, of course, and some 308 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 2: days you need it, you need to have that ca 309 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: tactic feeling of crying it all out. But some days 310 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: you just realize you know what, at least I could 311 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 2: still have been my cousin here. At least a roomby 312 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 2: could come over, you know, at least you know too, 313 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: could come over and help me. I have a supportive partner, like, so, 314 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: it's one of those things where you you let yourself 315 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 2: go there, but then you also let yourself be kind 316 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: to yourself. Well it does. It does permeate into everything, 317 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: you know, and that's why therapy also comes in clurks, 318 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: but also therapy, as you said, is. 319 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: A privileged face privilege. I think trauma shows up in 320 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: how you relate in relationships like partnership, friendship. Like for me, 321 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, if I'm going through a challenging especially 322 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: with friends, I'm like, well I can move on, Like 323 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm quick to just like shut off. And 324 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: I think that is a trauma response. 325 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I won't be hurt, so I'll just shut 326 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 2: I'll be fine. 327 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: I don't mean anybody anyway, you know. So you see 328 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: that and you have to actively work on like, Okay, 329 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: let's how do we move through this in this relationship. 330 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: I think it shows up in sometimes not letting your 331 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: guard down. I think for a long time, I don't 332 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: trust men. Yeah, And I mean men don't make it 333 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: easy for us to trust them. I'm just like, not 334 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: all men, you know, I think they're the oposite. I 335 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: think there's some sort of you know, but aside from that, 336 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: like learning to allow yourself to be loved, for someone 337 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: to be gentle with you, and not expect the worst always, 338 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: Like I think you start thinking all the way, oh 339 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: you're gon' turn now, Okay, this is gonna switch up now, 340 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: which is very sad. Yeah, but it is a trauma 341 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: response because I think how many aunts and relatives, mothers, 342 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: cousins did we see growing up going through some really 343 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: traumatic relationships where you're like, why do people get married? 344 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: Why do people try and have partners or children together? 345 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: So a lot of and learning has to be done 346 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: and consuming different content, Like I think sometimes the negative 347 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: is always so prevalent, and then the good is not 348 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: always to the surface, and we don't shine a light 349 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: on it enough. But you know, there's I really thinking, 350 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: there's a scale all the time. There's negative and there's positive, 351 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: and you really have to seek out the positive to help. 352 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feel like trauma is mainly sometimes the 353 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: trauma response rather reflection because in the moment, you just 354 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 2: like it literally is instinctual, primal. I feel like you 355 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: have to get to a huge level of work to 356 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: realize you're having a trauma response. When you're having the 357 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 2: trauma response, usually a lot of times that's when you 358 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: have to get comfortable with apologizing. So the apologies to 359 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 2: your friends when you're like, do something like out of character, 360 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: then you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. You 361 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 2: know this space I'm in or this reminded me of 362 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: this and that. So I feel like it's also having 363 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: safe people around you that you know, you don't have 364 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: to explain yourself to every single person you meet. But 365 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: sometimes when you do something that's really especially when it's 366 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: in the negative and like shouting at people, raising your voice, 367 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: all these kinds of things which might also end up 368 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: triggering someone else, we have to always reflect and bring 369 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 2: ourselves back and find explanation and then also find ways 370 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: of coping. Yes, because you don't exist healthy. Yeah, you 371 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 2: can't just shout it every and sorry. 372 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: And you know, we talk about this often. 373 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: There's a lot of. 374 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: Therapy speak where people try and use therapy to use 375 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: their behavior. Jonah Hill and you know, being douchebags, and 376 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: you know I didn't. I don't like you because talking 377 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: to other men, because it's a traumat and I think 378 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: it triggers are going to fix yourself? 379 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, type of be able to talk to you exactly. 380 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: And I think for me, something I've I heard not 381 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: too long ago was that emotions last for a couple 382 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: of seconds, if you know, like, and so it's about 383 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: how long we allow ourselves in that. So I think 384 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: similarly with trauma responses. I think it's normal to feel 385 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: on emotion, and as you work through it, maybe it 386 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: becomes less extreme, maybe less where it comes. Yes, it 387 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: doesn't last as long. And I think it's normal to 388 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: feel certain things, but it's how we then address it. 389 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: So it's like this hurts me. You could sit in there, 390 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm so hurt on me, I'm the victim, and you 391 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: can wallow for life or you know, weeks on it. 392 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: But it's like this hurt me? Why did it hurt me? 393 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: And why does it bring up these feelings? And what 394 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: could be done differently? Is it something I could have done? 395 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: Is it something that could have been done by someone else? 396 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: And how do I go from allowing ourselves to feel 397 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: but also saying Okay, clearly I still feel triggered by this. 398 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: I need to work on yeah, because yeah, I'm being 399 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 2: a douchebag. Does not or feeling a trauma responses being 400 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: like still still a douche, your douche and you see it. 401 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeahs have gone more and more of these men are coming. 402 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: On look at but that's mainly men. It's not like common. 403 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, you know ramses like saying oh because 404 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, don't do that. Yeah, yeah, I 405 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: don't know. 406 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 2: If I trauma as a migrant in America, you can't 407 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 2: take it out on the Americans. You want to get 408 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: like yeah, I feel like I feel like yeah, therapies 409 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: speak and people saying oh I'm traumatized has become trivialized 410 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: as well, so it's like people just use it as 411 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: like almost like a badge of but in a. 412 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: Bad way comes the trauma bonding. He's telling her people died, 413 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: and he's meeting her dad and saying can I have animal? 414 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: And the next thing is like I never want to 415 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: see you again. 416 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: Then they didn't have fun in their relationship because that's because. 417 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: You're basing all that. And I think I think something 418 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: we need to learn in life. Just because someone tells 419 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: you all their trauma doesn't mean that it makes a 420 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: relationship stronger. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't make the 421 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: relationship more valuable for because, as we say, trauma bonding. 422 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: But I think it's like you shouldn't celebrate like, oh, 423 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: they opened up for me, It's like, how are they 424 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: healing from this? 425 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: Is probably those are questions you need to be and 426 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 2: why the trauma dumping on me? 427 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: There's exactly I think we used to especially I think 428 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: when we were growing up, like when guys didn't open up. 429 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: So when a guy like opened up a little bit, like, 430 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, she's confiding, Yeah, specially confiding or is 431 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: it dumping and then just like moving on? 432 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 2: And guys are really good with that. A lot of 433 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: couples break up after something traumatic happens, losing a child, 434 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 2: you know, miscarriages, all these things, because it's hard when 435 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 2: you're both trying to deal and to also be there 436 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: for each other. So and that's sometimes really the only 437 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: thing is therapy where you can deal with such. But 438 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: what do you think about our people, because obviously miscarriages 439 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: and death in the family or whatever it is still 440 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: happens in spaces where therapy is not so accessible or acceptable. 441 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: How do you think they themselves at the funeral? Do 442 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: you reckon they just use religion in that space. 443 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: I think our people don't have much in terms of 444 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: like money, or like self like healing, in terms of therapy, 445 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: as you said, and like all these things. So one 446 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: thing we cling onto is religion. But I think we 447 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: need to be very clear. Religion helps to give hope, 448 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: but it can't be the only answer for everything, because 449 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we use religion to suppress feelings and 450 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: to say everything. 451 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: Is all right, there's the reason, God, God. 452 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: We don't we force acceptance without going through the steps 453 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: of grief, do you understand? And anger? And we just 454 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: say it is what it is and must accept And 455 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: we almost hide behind religion as a way of like 456 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: all will be well, but are you well? Are you 457 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: truly well? And will it be well for you? 458 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: And you see it all the time with Zimbabweans, like 459 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 2: if you just randomly walk into a and ask someone 460 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 2: a question or annoying them, they'll you will try to 461 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: physically harm you because it's like get out of my mind, 462 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: Like it's just yeah, we are so quick to you 463 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: have these like negative emotions because really, underneath it all, 464 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: we're so dissatisfied with so many things, so disappointed in 465 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: so many ways. That doesn't take much to trigger. 466 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, not at all. 467 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: Like I remember even you know, when you do something 468 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: for I'll pay you them, and no pay me now, 469 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: because there's that you won't get that you won't pay 470 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 2: and you'll run away and you're thinking No. Usually with 471 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: businesses we do fifty percent, like it's just normal, you know, 472 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 2: a deposit before and then after the job. But then 473 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: they're just so worried that we sometimes they need the 474 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: money to then also has of other things, so it's 475 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 2: like there is so much there to unpack. I feel 476 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 2: as the people do you. 477 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: Think and the barb Wins will ever get right or 478 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: feel right. 479 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 2: I feel like as long as the space isn't safe, no, 480 00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 2: then no, I don't. 481 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: Know if you'l and see it or not. And it 482 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: really hurts to say in our generation are people doing well? 483 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: You know what made me think that when we had 484 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: a bit of relief when the US dollar first started 485 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 2: and now things are flowing there when things tightened again, 486 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 2: now you can't get get us easily. You actually rely 487 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: on these remittance agencies. And then when the cos is 488 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 2: like having to go overseas to England mainly to do 489 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: care work jobs, people like rush to it. So it's 490 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 2: like I feel like, yeah, we're just still figuring it out, 491 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: trying to We're still in survival mode. 492 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: If there's one thing about Zimbabweans, we are survivors. I 493 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: think that is one thing we'll make away and tug 494 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: it out. And I think it's a blessing and a curse. 495 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: But you, yeah, have we been through that? 496 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: How do you reckon? We can seek help with resolve 497 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: in Frome. I mean, I Alwa's talked about therapy, but 498 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: even on a day to day. 499 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: I think it's what you feed yourself, whether it's what 500 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: you listen to, what you watch, what who you follow, 501 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: what you're reading, It's all the ways and your community, 502 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: who you surround yourself with. If you surround yourself with 503 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: people who continuously bring you down and are negative, I 504 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: think you need to realize that things within your power 505 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: to control, and those are things like sometimes you don't 506 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: necessarily choose your family, but you can choose your friends, 507 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: You can choose way spend your time. You can choose 508 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, what you read, what you ingest that all. 509 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: And it's a lot of also self talk, like how 510 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: do you perceive yourself? And are you kind to yourself? 511 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: Like something that I've had to learn is to be 512 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: kind to my inner child and allow her to speak 513 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: up sometimes when I never listen to her. Like, so 514 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: sometimes you be like I feel very neglected or I 515 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: feel very unsafe here or not protected, or you didn't 516 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: have my back when you sort of choose to appease 517 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: someone else over your own feelings, like I can bring 518 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: up those traumas and then it's like, oh, actually I 519 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: need to speak up for myself or look out for myself. Yeah, 520 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: And it's being really in tune with self and taking 521 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: that time journaling. You know, I'm a proponent. 522 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: This is a journal Curd. I mean, I mean essentially 523 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: you've said at all, it's like identifying your triggers and 524 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 2: in some ways trying to manage that, you know, and 525 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: also your coping mechanisms. Yeah, alcohol not being one of them. Please. 526 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: You know, I know a lot of people like you know, 527 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: drugs and alcohol to forget it all or to but 528 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 2: really long term, you're not forgetting it at all, you're 529 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: just setting it aside for another time. You're sitting aside 530 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: for your future, you know. So I feel like and maybe, yeah, 531 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: sometimes we do look within communities if you don't have 532 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: therapy accessible people to reach out to, people you can 533 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: trust to not to trauma dump so to speak as much, 534 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 2: but just to work through things. And sometimes I feel, 535 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: especially if your trauma is recent, the quicker you get 536 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: to it the bear. So sometimes you're like, I don't 537 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 2: know if African parents have been telling you a story 538 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 2: from tittis my guy. Yeah, because and only when it 539 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: starts to fast, they also start to lose perspective, like 540 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: now the story is told with a bit of spice, 541 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: but over years you've mouthed over it, a mouth recreated 542 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: and yeah, and that's something quite what happened or how 543 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 2: you know. And sometimes it's misunderstandings too, within family structures especially, 544 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: So I feel like with trauma, the sooner you can address, 545 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: oh there's a problem here and try to find ways 546 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 2: to resolve it. The quicker, sometimes you don't get the opportunity. 547 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: You know, people have been displaced and lost, the people 548 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: in Ukraine and starts to done. All these people lost 549 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: their homes. You can't really just you know, it's something 550 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: you have to really work through as a family. Yeah, 551 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: but I feel like actually even recognizing it's there true 552 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: is also quite crucial. 553 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: True. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being 554 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: a safe space for me to work of my trouses. 555 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening as always. We appreciate it, 556 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: and we'll see you guys on the next episode. 557 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 2: Bye, guys to those