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Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm a glutton for punishment, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I got some feedback this morning from an

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Speaker 1: event I did in the US recently, and I ignored

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Speaker 1: all the four and fives out of fives and straight

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Speaker 1: went straight to the ones and twos because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to know what people hated about it. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's a sign of madness or maverickness,

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Speaker 1: but I actually now go looking for some of that

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Speaker 1: detractor statements because that enables me to say I'm in

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Speaker 1: charge of this. So all I can do is continually

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Speaker 1: improve myself and listen and adapt and adopt. And if

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Speaker 1: I do that, I've got a chance. And the minute

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Speaker 1: I shut down and try and be a singular version

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Speaker 1: of me, or stop listening, or get so arrogant and

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Speaker 1: so brought up in my own story that I don't

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Speaker 1: actually take account of others, then that's when all the

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Speaker 1: wheels fall off.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics

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Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imbat, organizational psychologist,

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Speaker 2: the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with finding ways

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Speaker 2: to optimize my work date.

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Speaker 3: My guest today is Dom Price.

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Speaker 2: Dom is the head of research and development and also

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Speaker 2: the resident work futurist at at Lassian, one of the

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Speaker 2: world's biggest and fastest growing tech companies. Dom has responsibilities

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Speaker 2: spanning five global R and D centers and is the

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Speaker 2: in house team doctor who helps Alassian scale by being

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Speaker 2: ruthlessly effective, all while keeping one eye on the future.

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Speaker 2: I've known Dom for a few years now, and one

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Speaker 2: of the things that I like most about Dom is

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Speaker 2: that he's so contrarian in his views and he's not

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Speaker 2: afraid to share them. We cover a lot of different

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Speaker 2: topics in this chat, ranging from Dom's deep work rituals,

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Speaker 2: through to his favorite interview questions to ask people, through

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Speaker 2: to how Dom still experiences imposter syndrome and how he

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Speaker 2: uses this to his advantage, over to to find out

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Speaker 2: about how he works.

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Speaker 3: Dom, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me.

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Speaker 3: Very excited to be talking to you. I can imagine

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Speaker 3: that there's no such.

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Speaker 2: Thing as a typical day for you, given your very

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Speaker 2: very role, but I'd love you to pick one day

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Speaker 2: from maybe this week and took me through what happened,

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Speaker 2: what you did a day in the life of dom.

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Speaker 1: A day in the life. I think there's two parts

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Speaker 1: to any day for me. So there's like internally focused DOM,

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Speaker 1: which is where I get to massively geek out with

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Speaker 1: all of the teams across at lassion and do stuff

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Speaker 1: to help them, help them make themselves more effective, help

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Speaker 1: them get over some blockers, help them challenge the way

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Speaker 1: they think. Plan off site. This week, we're actually flying

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Speaker 1: out whold of us flying out this week to Barcelona

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Speaker 1: for our customer summit in Europe. We'll have a few

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Speaker 1: thousand people along and we had a brainstorming session about

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Speaker 1: the things we can do to delight our customers as

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Speaker 1: part of that experience. So it was internally focused book

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Speaker 1: working with some of our teams. And then the other

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Speaker 1: half of any typical or non typical day is then

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Speaker 1: outside the four walls of that lassie. And I've got

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Speaker 1: this fortunate role where I spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: outside our four walls, and that enables me to tackle

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Speaker 1: that challenge of insularity that I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: organizations struggle with. So I get to go and flirt

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Speaker 1: and spend time with all types of organizations of all shapes,

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Speaker 1: and sizes and actually go and help them, and go

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Speaker 1: and listen to their challenges, whether it be scaling, whether

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Speaker 1: it be innovating, whether it be distributed or remote teams,

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Speaker 1: anything that companies are struggling with, and just having a

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Speaker 1: conversation around what we've tried that works for us and

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Speaker 1: what might work for them, because I'm a firm believer

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Speaker 1: that we've not got solutions, We've got ideas, and when

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Speaker 1: we share those ideas, we end up building things that

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Speaker 1: uniquely work for ourselves. So that's the two parts of

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Speaker 1: the role, and the we've been in between is whatever

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Speaker 1: I learn internally, I go and tell externally, and whatever

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Speaker 1: I learn externally, I go and tell internally, And the

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Speaker 1: two actually feed each other.

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Speaker 2: I love that the two parts to feeding off each other,

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Speaker 2: and that you've got such two kind of disparate and

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Speaker 2: yet complementary parts of your role. How do you structure

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Speaker 2: that in terms of a day or a week? Like

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Speaker 2: do you try to batch those two different types of

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Speaker 2: you know, roles and ways of thinking?

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Speaker 3: I guess, how does that work?

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Speaker 1: I'd love in the utopian world that that question actually

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Speaker 1: was thrue. Like, I love that if there was a

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Speaker 1: way of batching and planning and kind of architecting. It

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Speaker 1: ends upon honestly being very opportunistic, So you know the

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Speaker 1: I can very It's very hard for me to determine

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Speaker 1: when a specific customer or specific connection or contact has

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Speaker 1: a challenge, and it's in that moment of that challenge

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Speaker 1: is the best time for me to go and speak

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Speaker 1: to them, because you want to get it while it's fresh,

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Speaker 1: while you've got the feeling, like before the logical part

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Speaker 1: of the brain kicks in and rationalizes it. You want

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Speaker 1: to have that conversation when you've got the pain or

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Speaker 1: the excitement or the acts right, it's the heartburn moment

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Speaker 1: that gets you truly motivated to go and fix it.

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Speaker 1: So what I tend to do is I have objectives

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Speaker 1: that I set over a four and eight and twelve

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Speaker 1: week period, and every now and then, whatever that frequency be,

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Speaker 1: I just do a quick sense check am I balanced?

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Speaker 1: Because there is no given day. Some days are all customers,

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Speaker 1: some weeks are all customers, and some weeks are all

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Speaker 1: internal and so I just have to kind of roll

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Speaker 1: with it. And then, because my role is international, I

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Speaker 1: really don't have working hours. I don't have nine to

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Speaker 1: five Monday to Friday. I have outcomes I want to achieve,

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Speaker 1: and I have an amount of energy that I have

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Speaker 1: available in a given time period, and I try and

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Speaker 1: plot that energy to those needs. And sometimes that means

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Speaker 1: I do a bit of work on a Sunday and

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Speaker 1: I won't come in on a Monday, and sometimes I'm

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Speaker 1: working in the US or Europe. Like it all bounces out.

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Speaker 1: The challenge for me, and I think this is a

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Speaker 1: challenge will face in the future of work, is how

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Speaker 1: do I maintain the discipline of not burning out? Because

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Speaker 1: I haven't got regimented working hours, and so I think

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Speaker 1: as we lose that structure, we need to build the discipline.

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Speaker 3: So how do you do that? How do you avoid

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Speaker 3: burning out?

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Speaker 2: And obviously, like it sounds like you love your work,

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Speaker 2: like you speak so passionately about it, and I think

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Speaker 2: that can make it even harder to have discipline and boundaries.

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Speaker 3: So how do you avoid burn.

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Speaker 1: A couple of ways. One, I've surrounded myself by people

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Speaker 1: that are way more focused than me, so I know

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Speaker 1: that I can get distracted in less than a millisecond.

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Speaker 1: And I love shining new things. So when I think

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Speaker 1: about the team that I work closely with I have

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Speaker 1: some of the best people in the world who can

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Speaker 1: call BS on me right, who can go dom, No,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to go and start a new thing.

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Speaker 1: We're going to finish this thing. And I sulk for

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Speaker 1: about thirty seconds and then I get on with it.

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Speaker 1: But that focus really helps when we plan our quarterly goals.

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Speaker 1: We also have a conversation about what we're not doing.

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Speaker 1: And they're the popular misconceptions. They're the things that you

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Speaker 1: might think we're doing and they consume a bit of time,

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Speaker 1: but we're like, now we're purposely not doing those. So

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Speaker 1: to be focused, you not only need to know what

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Speaker 1: you're doing, but you need to be conscious of what

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Speaker 1: you might accidentally do that you shouldn't be doing.

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Speaker 2: So what's an example of that, of something that you

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Speaker 2: won't do it? Like? Is that like we won't build

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Speaker 2: this particular feature, Like what does that look like?

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Speaker 1: It tends to be time for us. It tends to

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Speaker 1: be like a time investment. Our biggest constraint is ours

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Speaker 1: Where are people? Business people people? A last you know,

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Speaker 1: a technology company, and our product is largely technology based.

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Speaker 1: But if you think about our assets, if you think

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Speaker 1: about our IP, it's all people and people have time

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Speaker 1: and energy available. So for us, it's around saying, how

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Speaker 1: can we make sensible investments. It's better to do less

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Speaker 1: things and do them really well. You are an example

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Speaker 1: for me right now is I love doing stuff with customers,

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Speaker 1: and every customer that calls up and says we'd love

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Speaker 1: some time with you, I have this tendency to say yes.

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Speaker 1: And we made a decision last quarter that we were

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Speaker 1: only going to work with the people were already working

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Speaker 1: with for one quarter, weren't going to add any new

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Speaker 1: in there. And I was a bit sulky because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go and do some new, shiny things. But

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Speaker 1: the depth that I've got to go into by working

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Speaker 1: with the same people and repeat has paid a way

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Speaker 1: higher dividend for us and for them. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things that when we have to

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Speaker 1: kind of like a simple rule set, we use the

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Speaker 1: four ls loved, longed for, loathed, and learnt. And you

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Speaker 1: can't add in a longed for until you take away

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Speaker 1: a loathed. You have to take something out before you

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Speaker 1: add something in. Because we're all full, whether it be

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Speaker 1: hours or cognitive loads, were full. Have yet to meet

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Speaker 1: a professional that's twiddling the films because they've got so

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Speaker 1: much spare time on the hand, So we have to

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Speaker 1: be honest with ourselves and say, if we're full, we

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Speaker 1: have to take something out before we add something in.

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Speaker 1: And I try and follow that practice as much as possible.

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Speaker 3: I like that. That's really cool. I haven't come across

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Speaker 3: the four LS before.

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Speaker 2: I want to pick back up on something you said

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Speaker 2: earlier around how you've got your own objectives. I think

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Speaker 2: it was for eight twelve week objectives and you're constantly

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Speaker 2: checking back in on those. Talk to me about that

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Speaker 2: rhythm and how that works practically.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it works in two directions. As an organization,

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Speaker 1: we're very good at regularly communicating our overall strategy. We

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Speaker 1: have like a twelve eighteen month rolling strategy, and as

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Speaker 1: part of that, we have company level OKRs. So for

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Speaker 1: those that aren't familiar, it's objectives and key results made

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Speaker 1: famous by Google but also run by many other sort

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Speaker 1: of tech companies around the world. But in producing those

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Speaker 1: company OKRs and developing our strategy, we also do bottoms

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Speaker 1: up because we're aware that we have people all over

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Speaker 1: our organization, not just in different locations, but in different

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Speaker 1: functions of our business who have got different proximity to

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Speaker 1: customers and technology and potential trends and solutions and industry movements.

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Speaker 1: And so by doing top down and bottoms up together,

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Speaker 1: we end up kind of collectively agreeing on our goal

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Speaker 1: and then at a company level we share those and

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Speaker 1: we regularly discuss them. And then at a functional level

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Speaker 1: we do the same thing, which is we've already contributed

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Speaker 1: to those overall company goals, what does that mean for us?

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Speaker 1: What does success look like in a year, and then

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Speaker 1: how do we break that down into quarterly OKRs? What

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Speaker 1: are our objectives and our key results, and then we

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Speaker 1: score them monthly. But the idea behind OKRs is a

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Speaker 1: score of one, which is the best score means that

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Speaker 1: you've absolutely hit it out of the ballpark all moons aligned,

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Speaker 1: this was the best result ever. Like point seven is

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Speaker 1: a good result, a one is like wow. And so

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Speaker 1: we're constantly looking at stretch objectives and stretch key results

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we're pushing the right boundaries. And

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Speaker 1: our teams on the whole find that very motivating because

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Speaker 1: you can call out what absolutely amazing looks like and

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Speaker 1: you can swing for it, but if you miss, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to get punished, all right, we accept that

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Speaker 1: point seven is still a really good score and just

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Speaker 1: builds that momentum around continually pushing boundaries and wanting to

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Speaker 1: exceed expectations and not just kind of mediocre run of

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Speaker 1: the male business's usual stuff.

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Speaker 3: I think ok as are really interesting.

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Speaker 2: I love John Dawes's recent book Measure What Matters that

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Speaker 2: goes into a lot of detail around it.

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Speaker 3: And I know at Google they're.

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Speaker 2: Quite famous for saying point seven, as you say, like,

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Speaker 2: that's a great result. If you're getting too many ones,

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Speaker 2: you're possibly not stretching yourself enough. And I want to

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Speaker 2: know you for you don how do you think about

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Speaker 2: your own personal okas and having the right amount of

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Speaker 2: stretching those.

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Speaker 1: So I've actually skipped having my own personal ones for

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Speaker 1: the last couple of quarters, just as an experiment. So

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Speaker 1: and I still don't know the answer on this one,

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Speaker 1: if I'm brutally honest. I went probably nine months or

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Speaker 1: like three quarters with having my own and having team

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Speaker 1: level ones, and I found those either duplication or conflict

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Speaker 1: and it didn't actually help me. So for the last

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Speaker 1: probably two quarters, I've not had any personal okayrs. But

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Speaker 1: there are objectives in the team level ones that I

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Speaker 1: care about more than others, and I've put my name

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Speaker 1: against them as being the owner or the driver, and

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Speaker 1: that for me is working better because it's enabling me

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Speaker 1: to still be a team player first and do my

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Speaker 1: individual things second, which for my personality type or way

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Speaker 1: of working is the most effective way. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that's the right way for everyone, but it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: now when we gather as a team, we have really

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Speaker 1: healthy and heated debates, mainly about the objectives because they're

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Speaker 1: the things we really want to get right, because that's

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Speaker 1: the directional stuff, the key results. We're more flexible on.

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Speaker 1: We're more willing to change because as you learn, those

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Speaker 1: things will change. But we want to be confident that

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Speaker 1: we're sort of approaching directionally the right objectives. And so

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Speaker 1: the experiment we've been doing for the last two quarters

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Speaker 1: with the team I'm part of is we've been phrasing

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Speaker 1: the objectives in the words of the person we're delivering to,

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Speaker 1: which is a nice little twist, right, So again to

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Speaker 1: stop ourselves being insular, right instead of saying we want

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Speaker 1: to ship x percent of things, or it's not about

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Speaker 1: on time and it's not about scope, it's about delighting

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Speaker 1: the customer. And so if you want to introduce empathy

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Speaker 1: into a team, make your objectives about the person you're

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Speaker 1: delivering to, because then you're measuring success through their lens

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Speaker 1: and not through your own. And that's really enabled us

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Speaker 1: to push on outcomes rather than outputs. And so instead

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Speaker 1: of looking at what are the things we did this

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Speaker 1: week or this month, we're looking at what are the

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Speaker 1: seeds we planted, how do we nurture those seeds, and

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Speaker 1: what do we think those seeds will return in three

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Speaker 1: or six or nine months time.

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Speaker 2: Can you give me an example of how you've translated

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Speaker 2: the wording of an objective from a Lessian language into

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Speaker 2: customer language.

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Speaker 3: It's an example of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So one of them. One of them was with

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Speaker 1: our play book, which I know you're familiar with, but

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Speaker 1: for those that aren't, we we took at Lassian's way

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Speaker 1: of working, which we'd codified into something called the Atlastian

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Speaker 1: Team Playbook, and then about two years ago we published it. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you look historically, as we were going through our okayrs,

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Speaker 1: we were looking at traffic and clicks and you're at

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Speaker 1: a whole other stuff and we're like, hey, they're all

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Speaker 1: our metrics, that's how we know, But what's the impact

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Speaker 1: on a customer? And so suddenly we started to talk

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Speaker 1: about instead of the volume of customers, we started to

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Speaker 1: talk about how a customer actually used it and what

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Speaker 1: experience did they have, and what followed through did they

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Speaker 1: have and what happened with that fall through and how

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Speaker 1: did they feel. And suddenly we then went and did

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Speaker 1: a journey map to understand what is the flow from

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Speaker 1: that customer perspective. Because we were looking and it's really

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Speaker 1: natural to do this, by the way, we were just

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Speaker 1: looking through our lens and we forget that the people

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Speaker 1: outside our four walls see a very different world towards

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Speaker 1: and so enabled to say, hey, if we didn't have

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Speaker 1: the knowledge, implicit knowledge and context we had, and we

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Speaker 1: are this persona in another organization struggling with this, how

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Speaker 1: would they approach it and how can we help them?

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Speaker 1: And so we decided to make that persona the person

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Speaker 1: we were delivering to. It's a generic person that doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: But we actually had a two hour workshop this morning.

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Speaker 1: One of our personas is called Daniel, and so we

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Speaker 1: all sat in the meeting and we all dialed in

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Speaker 1: and we did a journey map for Daniel, and we

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Speaker 1: were helping solve Daniel's pain points. Now, Daniel doesn't exist,

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Speaker 1: but we've got a page that describes Daniel, his role,

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Speaker 1: the type of company he's in, the things he struggle with,

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Speaker 1: the things that goes well. And so that just enables

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Speaker 1: us to say, it's so easy for us to put

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Speaker 1: our personal bias into these things, and we all know

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Speaker 1: seek first to understand. We know we should walk into

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Speaker 1: one else's shoes. Very easy to say, bloody hard to

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Speaker 1: actually do. And so we've been using that persona and

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Speaker 1: the objectives around that persona to say, let's have a

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Speaker 1: meeting for Daniel. That two hour meeting was all about

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Speaker 1: helping Daniel.

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Speaker 3: That's cool. I like that idea of let's have a

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Speaker 3: meeting for Daniel.

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Speaker 2: I want to shift gears and I'm keen to know. Like,

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Speaker 2: your week's obviously very varied, but are there any daily

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Speaker 2: or weekly rituals that help set you up for a

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Speaker 2: great week or keep you on track?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think rituals definitely, because with my travel, because

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Speaker 1: time zones are so choppy, I have to be quite flexible.

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Speaker 1: But there are certain rituals that come into play. There's

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Speaker 1: one that I actually copied from you that I've never

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Speaker 1: thanked you for, which is the disconnecting from email. So

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Speaker 1: I make sure in any given week and certainly in

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Speaker 1: any given day, I've got me time, and it's not

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Speaker 1: me time to go and do yoga or get my

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Speaker 1: nails done. It's me time to just get through my

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Speaker 1: work right some personal time. People often get confused because

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Speaker 1: at Lastly and we talk a lot about teamwork. Everything's

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Speaker 1: about collaboration and teamwork, and I'm no, no, that's part

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Speaker 1: of what you do. But there's also deep work that

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Speaker 1: I do where I just need my time to do

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Speaker 1: my tasks, my activities, my thinking, get my thoughts in order.

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Speaker 1: And so what I realized was with technology and being

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Speaker 1: connected twenty four by seven, I was getting distracted and

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Speaker 1: it was taking me a lot longer to do those things,

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Speaker 1: and maybe my quality was starting to drop. My presence

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Speaker 1: wasn't entirely there. And so one of the things I've

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Speaker 1: copied from you is making sure I've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of hours where I just sort of turn off that

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Speaker 1: connectivity to the world and I just get through my

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Speaker 1: tasks and my work and that's enabled me to really

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Speaker 1: focus in on them and I think, do them to

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Speaker 1: a better standard, do them in the right sequence, right

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Speaker 1: do the things that are both urgent and important and

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Speaker 1: not panic because I carve out that time to go

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Speaker 1: and do that. And then the other one is actually

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Speaker 1: like the complete flip side, which is an entirely selfish

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Speaker 1: and selfless thing, which is I realized I absolutely love

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Speaker 1: mentoring and coaching, and with my travel schedule, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot harder. But what I've managed to do is connect

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Speaker 1: with a few people in our offices around the world

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Speaker 1: who they have things that they're looking for in a coach,

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Speaker 1: a mentor that I can help with, and so I've

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Speaker 1: carved time out for that and I find that a

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Speaker 1: great leveling exercise for me. I find it very rewarding

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Speaker 1: to give back, and it also it's a great pulse

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Speaker 1: check for me on the organization, just to see, like

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Speaker 1: in the detail what people are struggling with and what

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Speaker 1: they're not struggling with to help direct me with my work.

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Speaker 1: So you know, that's another ritual there isn't really directly

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Speaker 1: correlated to me, but it really helps me keep connected

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Speaker 1: to the organization.

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Speaker 2: I I'm curious about your deep work ritual. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell me, like, what are the ideal conditions that you

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Speaker 2: construct for yourself to have those really great couple of hours,

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Speaker 2: and also how many times a week is that happening.

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Speaker 1: It's probably three or four times a week. It's a

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Speaker 1: very similar ritual if I'm at home. If I'm in Sydney,

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Speaker 1: then I'll work from home often, I'll do early morning

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Speaker 1: calls with the US and then I'll have a good

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Speaker 1: couple of hours where I'm just in my in my

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Speaker 1: office at home in the zone. The Beatles are playing

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Speaker 1: in the background, I'm wearing really tragic clothes. I will

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Speaker 1: alternate between work and singing, and I'm drinking too much coffee.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's it's me immersive time. But the stuff

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Speaker 1: I get done, like if I've got the right soundtrack

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Speaker 1: in the background, and I've got a fresh cuppa and

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Speaker 1: I've got my comfy jumper and my comfy pants on,

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Speaker 1: Like all my energy is going into my work because

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Speaker 1: I'm not having I'm not having to think about anything else.

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Speaker 1: I'm not having to think about the other people around me.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely adore and love facilitating workshops, but they're exhausting,

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Speaker 1: and so when I'm not in that zone, I know

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Speaker 1: that I need complete immersion in almost like solidarity, so

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Speaker 1: that I can just solely focus on one thing, because

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Speaker 1: otherwise I go back to default dom who is facility

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Speaker 1: the workshop. So if I'm in an open plan office

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Speaker 1: space and there's other people around, that is the biggest

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Speaker 1: temptation for me to go and engage with them, because

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Speaker 1: I want to help them, I want to do stuff.

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Speaker 1: So for me, I have to switch off those stimuluses

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Speaker 1: and just give myself time to go deep. And then

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Speaker 1: it's a case of just picking one thing at a time,

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Speaker 1: which is a hard discipline for me. I like to

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Speaker 1: think I'm a multitasker, I'm not, so being honest with

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Speaker 1: myself and go and pick one thing, finish it, and

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Speaker 1: then do the next thing.

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Speaker 2: A couple of questions on that, What role does music

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Speaker 2: play for you in this scenario?

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Speaker 1: A couple of roles. One is I actually have a

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Speaker 1: deep sort of love for the creativity side of music,

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Speaker 1: but also the simplicity, which is you know, like we

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Speaker 1: all know that when we listen to a song that

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Speaker 1: there was hours and hours of turmoil and versions of

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Speaker 1: rework and challenges, and all we ever here is the

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Speaker 1: three minutes thirty second version, right, we only see the

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Speaker 1: end product, and it's a great reminder that actually there's

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Speaker 1: a whole lod of stuff happened behind the scenes before

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Speaker 1: that was consumed. And then the other thing is I

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Speaker 1: just love some of the It kind of triggers a

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Speaker 1: different part of my brain, which isn't logical, because the

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Speaker 1: thing I love about music is it's entirely illogical, Like

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Speaker 1: the songs that I love, the number of songs that

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Speaker 1: I sing along to because I think they're happy, and

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Speaker 1: then someone explains the lyrics to me and it's actually

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Speaker 1: a really depressing song, and I'm like, I like it anyway,

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Speaker 1: Like it's a good rhythm, and I kind of bop

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Speaker 1: along to it. And then then you listen to the words,

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Speaker 1: You're like, wow, that's that's pretty dark. But just the

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Speaker 1: kind of moment and the visuals that that creates almost

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Speaker 1: gives me permission to go and explore because I don't

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Speaker 1: think anyone, you know, and I'm a big Beatles fan.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine any stage where anyone wrote any lyrics

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Speaker 1: or a Beatles song and said that makes sense because

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Speaker 1: they don't right. They're they're stories, and they're emotive and

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Speaker 1: they create different visions in your head, but they're not logical.

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Speaker 1: And so for me, a lot of what we do

436
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: on a daily basis, a lot of the volatility, the uncertainty,

437
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: the complexity that we're dealing with needs us to occasionally

438
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: be illogical and be okay being illogical, and sometimes just

439
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: trust our instinct and our heart that what we're doing

440
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: does make sense and will work, and if it doesn't,

441
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: we're open and vulnerable enough to admit that and change it.

442
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: Whereas I think occasionally we look for the perfection of

443
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: a finished out album or record, but we don't realize

444
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: that the amount of imperfection that went into creating that.

445
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: So I think there's a good analogy for me there

446
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: that it just kind of reminds me that it's all

447
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: right for us to make progress and maybe perfection is

448
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: often the wrong goal for us.

449
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: That's nice.

450
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: I want to also understand, like you said, you'll pick

451
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: one task to do during this deep work time and

452
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 2: then you'll maybe move on to the next how do

453
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 2: you decide which task to focus on.

454
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: It's very opportunistic based on mood. So I'm a lot

455
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 1: of my work requires very different types of energy. So

456
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: I do a bit of writing. I have a regular column,

457
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: I write blogs, I generate content and that I know

458
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: requires a very different mood or zone for me that

459
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: I can't create. I can't say, oh, it's three o'clock,

460
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: it's writing time, because if I do nothing will happen.

461
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: I will sit there and stare at empty screen for

462
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 1: an hour and just get upset with myself. So it

463
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 1: tends to be a very quick reflection of what am

464
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: I in the mood for and what's on the backlog?

465
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: You know. I have a little Trello board of all

466
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: the things that are in my backlog that I know

467
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: I have to get done, and it's just a nice

468
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 1: It's like a to do list, but a little bit

469
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: sort of broader and a more macro level. And I

470
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: go to that and I have picked one thing off

471
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: I normally have in there, like what is my simple

472
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 1: definition of done? So for my articles, often my definition

473
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: of done is seventy percent baked. Because I have the

474
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: most amazing content writer based out of one of our

475
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: locations in the US, and she can perfect and poly

476
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 1: an article in a way that I never can. And

477
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: so my definition have done for a lot of my

478
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: articles is seventy percent, and once it's seventy I can

479
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: ship that off to her and I know within twenty

480
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: four hours I'll get something back that's infinitely better than

481
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: I wrote. And so that's cool, right, And I know

482
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: about that other things. If I'm doing a like you

483
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: a man to do a lot of presentations. If I'm

484
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: building a keynote deck or a pitch for a presentation,

485
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: that's normally something that I want to get polished, reviewed,

486
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: double checked before I send it off. So very much

487
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: depends on the mood and what's on the backlog, and

488
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: so to compensate for that, I always keep a variety

489
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: of things on the backlock, and I just pick off

490
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: the things that actually work for that phase of day,

491
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: for that moment, for that time, whatever that might be.

492
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: I want to delve a little bit deeper into your presentation.

493
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 2: So I've heard you speak a few times and sometimes

494
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: that Inventium's own events, and you're really great at telling

495
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: stories and also creating great analogies, and I want to

496
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: know what's your process for finding stories and how do

497
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: you craft them? Because you make them sound so spontaneous,

498
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: But I imagine there's a.

499
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 3: Lot of work in thinking that goes on behind the scenes,

500
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: or maybe it's not.

501
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: Grasping for a golden nugget that might just not be there.

502
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: I have a very very simple approach to first of all,

503
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: because I'm absolutely useless at keynote and PowerPoint, I go

504
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: for very bare slides, and part of that's because I'm

505
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: not good at it. The other part is I used

506
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: to hate those lectures, certainly in university. Whether it's just

507
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: like one hundred bullet points and the slides were so

508
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: noisy that there were no takeaways. You just couldn't remember anything.

509
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: And so what I like to do is keep them brief,

510
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: and then I have a goal that for every slide

511
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: there should be a story and a point. There should

512
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: be like a sow. So the stories tend to set

513
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: context the point that they're whether it be a call

514
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: to action or just a key takeaway. I think part

515
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: of my job as a storyteller is to share my

516
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: insight that I took from that story, and it's not

517
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: that that's the insight the listeners should take. That's just

518
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: me being honest about how I read that situation. And

519
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: then all the stories are just real life situation. So

520
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: whether I be facilitating a workshop, visiting a customer, running

521
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: an off site, doing a team event, whatever it is,

522
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: I'm just a curious little bugger and my eyes and

523
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: ears are constantly open and watching what happens and what's

524
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: going on, and so I just consume all of that

525
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: and I keep it in a bank. And so for me,

526
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, I like to represent speakers that I like

527
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: to listen to. And the speakers that I like to

528
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: listen to are the ones that they don't necessarily challenge

529
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 1: your logic, but they make you feel different, right, They

530
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: make you want to act different, or they make you

531
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: want to do something, And so for me, they're the

532
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: speakers I love to listen to. And so my goal

533
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: is to try and mimic as much of that as

534
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: I can, because I think it's it's relatively easy to

535
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: tell people stories and get them to nod. It's a

536
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: lot harder to get them to change the way they

537
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: think or change what they do. And that's the goal

538
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: I always set myself there is I want to leave

539
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: them with a story that is authentic that they can

540
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: resonate with and understand, but also enable them to go

541
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: I could do that. I could often go with that

542
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: because what I talk about isn't life or death situations,

543
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: and yet we tend to have this barrier of it's

544
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: too hard or I can't do it, or what if?

545
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: And I regularly kind of look there and go I

546
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: could try that, and if it went wrong, I wouldn't

547
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: get fired and no one would die. So I should

548
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: just try it. And that's the only way I want

549
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: to learn is to try it. So I like to

550
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: try and share some of those stories just to get

551
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: people over their own personal barriers.

552
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: How do you construct a presentation to maximize its chance

553
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: of creating behavior change?

554
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: I have two questions I ask, and too only this

555
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: you can have for free, because it's worked for me

556
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: so far. Are question number one is how do you

557
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: want people to feel? And I've finished so I'm doing

558
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: an event with a large consulting company in a few

559
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: weeks and we had the briefing session. I was like,

560
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: what do you want people to feel? What do you

561
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: want them to say to you afterwards? What kind of

562
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: response do you want? Like, you tell me how you

563
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: want me to leave them? And that's one point of

564
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: the story. The second question was how resilient ready and

565
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: self aware? Are they like? What state are your people

566
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: in right now? And essentially, what I'm trying to understand

567
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: there is how hard can I push? Because it's very

568
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: easy to achieve organ rejection and it's very easy to

569
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: deliver platitudes. Right those two things are at the end

570
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, and that is that's easy to be controversial,

571
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: stand on stage, be really aggressive and assertive, alienate everyone,

572
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: and you can be right, but you've not impacted anyone

573
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: because they've all shut off. Right. And similarly, it's easy

574
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: to stand on age and say trust is important and

575
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: respect and you should like people and people are assets

576
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: and all the same platitudes we already know. And so

577
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: neither of those things work for me. So what I'm

578
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: trying to do is land in the middle. But to

579
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: land in the middle, I have to know how ready

580
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: the audience are, and so it's it's an understanding and

581
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: where are they at in their progression and evilution? How

582
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: traditional are they, how stuck to their heritage are they?

583
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: What are the challenges they're facing? Because I want to

584
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: I want to make them feel uncomfortable enough with the

585
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: reality so that they're motivated to try something new. But

586
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: not so uncomfortable that they shut down.

587
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: I want to come back to your story bank. Is

588
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: your story bank or you're collecting all these stories? Is

589
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: this like a physical or digital thing or is this

590
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: just in your brain to tell me about I think

591
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: there's a real art to collecting stories to build into presentations,

592
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: or to build into even just trying to persuade people

593
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: in a meeting like the You know, the application is

594
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: so broad, So what does this story bank actually look like?

595
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: I firmly blamed my mother, so it's it's all in

596
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: a very strange format called Don's brain, and I blame

597
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: I blame my mother and my sisters. So I come

598
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: from a family of I've got two older sisters and

599
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: two younger sisters. I'm the only boy. So when people

600
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: ask me where I learned resilience from as a leader,

601
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: I suggested them to grow up in a household with

602
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: five women. It was the best resilience I could ever

603
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: achieve because they used to beat me, not physically but mentally.

604
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: The torture as a teenager it was great. Like at

605
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: the time it wasn't, but they taught me a whole

606
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: lot about the world and how tough the world is

607
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: in reality and how you roll with the punches and

608
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: how you get on with stuff. We also were a

609
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: very strong storytelling family. So whether it be the grandparents

610
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: or the aunties and uncles, or whenever family came over,

611
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: we didn't spend huge amounts of time in front of

612
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: the TV. We'd sit around. The kettle is always on

613
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: in my mum's house. There is a cup of tea

614
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: in one's hand for every moment that one is awake,

615
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: and so we would just sit around and tell stories.

616
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: But to get a story in when you've got that,

617
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm the quiet, small one in my family. To get

618
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: a story in, you've got to have a story right.

619
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: You've got to have a story. You've got to be

620
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: able to make the point. You've got to be snappy,

621
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: you've got to be emotional or funny or authentic like

622
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: it's going to be real. You've got to like And

623
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: so I just I never even realized that was a

624
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: skill until later in life. And so for me now,

625
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: storytelling isn't something I necessarily do in work. It's something

626
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: I just do in life. I you know, when someone

627
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: asks me what my hobby is, I love hanging around

628
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: with people at the weekend and at nights and just

629
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: sharing stories and sharing is listening to as many as

630
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: I tell you know, when I get to travel the world,

631
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: I get to sit with these random people in random

632
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: places and just listen to stuff and it just adds

633
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: to that memory back. So last year I was fortunate

634
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: enough to do an event with Red Bull in America

635
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: for their leadership team, the top one hundred leaders in

636
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: the US. And they'd flown in an elite Navy seal,

637
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: a guy from Singularity University, a lady who was in

638
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: europlasticity surgeon, and someone who is an expert in sports psychology.

639
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: And I was one of the presenters as well, but

640
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: I didn't care about delivering my session. I sat there

641
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: for three days and absorbed, and in between the keynotes

642
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: and the sessions, I would grab a coffee or a

643
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: wine or go for a stroll with that person and

644
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: just say tell me more like, how did that work?

645
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: How did that feel? And it's all the power of

646
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: the question. I think if you ask someone as you're

647
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: doing now, if you ask someone the right question, what

648
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,719
Speaker 1: you get in return is a story. And so it

649
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: was the fireside literally campfire conversations and the unstructured conversations

650
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: where I really got to learn about those people, and

651
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: thankfully all four of them I'm now still in contact

652
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: with because we've built enough bonds. I was sharing those

653
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: stories whereby now we continually do that. We still share,

654
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: we still catch up, we still connect, and so I

655
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: think that for me, is probably the most meaningful way

656
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: of connecting to people is to genuinely hear when they

657
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: tell a story from the heart about them or their

658
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: life or an experience. That's when you really learn about

659
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: what makes someone tick and.

660
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: What are your go to questions for extracting a great story.

661
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: Well before a question, I have to actively listen. I

662
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: must say I was a bit late to the party

663
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: on active listening. I have been a dysfunctional listener for

664
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: the vast majority of my life because I used to

665
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: just listen for pauses so that I could jump into

666
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: the conversation, and that doesn't last week. I think it

667
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: happened slowly as I just realized that me telling the

668
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: same stories on PETE was kind of boring and I

669
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: wasn't going to get any new story because I wasn't listening,

670
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: And then just hanging around with people where I'm like, Wow,

671
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: their stories are amazing, Like just dom just shut up

672
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: for a few minutes and listen, and this is like

673
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 1: the kind of material that you garner from those things

674
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: is just brilliant. So but in doing that and kind

675
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: of just letting yourself be challenged, it gave me this

676
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: whole new realization. So I now just make sure that

677
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: when I go to events or conferences or if I

678
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: want some meaningful challenge, I want to go and find

679
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 1: someone that's going to violently disagree with me and hold

680
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: me to account for what I say, because it's that

681
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: discomfort that I learned from.

682
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: And so it sounds like, you know, obviously active listening

683
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: is very important. So once you're listening and you're kind

684
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: of you know, you've got that engagement with the person,

685
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: do you have questions that you really like to ask

686
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 2: that you find get really interesting answers or story.

687
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: So the three go to questions for me are why,

688
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: what for? And how did it feel? And the why

689
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: and what force seemed the same that they're slightly different

690
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: because when you ask the why question, a lot of

691
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: people I find kind of get defensive, like they'll almost

692
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: say why not? And the what forour is what was

693
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: the motivator behind it. So, so, yeah, why did you

694
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: do something? I had no choice? Okay, what was it for?

695
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: Oh right, I was trying to save this or say yeah,

696
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: I was trying to save money, all right, or I

697
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: was trying to do something else. And so the why

698
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: and what fore? I use in combination that that how

699
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: did you feel? I used because when I hear stories

700
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: from people, I think I naturally translate them into my world,

701
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: and how did that feel? Forces me to not make

702
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: assumptions about how they felt through that experience, but actually

703
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: hear their view because sometimes so this happened with one

704
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: of the Navy seat guys. He's telling me this story

705
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: about a battle they were in, and I'm like, that

706
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: sounds awful because to me and my safe, privileged world,

707
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: what he was talking about sounded absolutely horrific. Like how

708
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: did you feel? And he's like, great, everything went to

709
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: plan and I was like, ah, cool, okay, so your like,

710
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: your world is fundamentally different to mine, and so you know,

711
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: then it's more about the whys and the what fors

712
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: and how dif you know and just go deeper on those.

713
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: I'm I'm more of a fan of, you know, trying

714
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: to find like one key thing that fascinates me when

715
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: someone tells me and just saying I'd love to know

716
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: more about that, Like can you go deeper on that

717
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: one for me? And that's just my way of saying

718
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: that that thing resonated with me, but I still don't

719
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: understand it. Can you just kind of double click? Double click,

720
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: double click? And then my favorite interview question of all

721
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: time right now, which I think I shared with you

722
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: have at dinner a few weeks ago, is what's the

723
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: most what's the most popular misconception of you? So I

724
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: only use this in certain circumstances, but I love the

725
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: idea of getting someone to talk about a popular misconception

726
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: because it enables me to fit all. See if they're

727
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: self aware and are they comfortable to articulate that kind

728
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: of thing. But also if it's a popular misconception, it's

729
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: probably true. And so it's one of those things where

730
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: perception eventually meets reality and you get to explore, you know,

731
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: what is the shadow version of you? And are you

732
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: aware of it? And can you tap into it? And

733
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: what impact does that have? And that it can be

734
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: a dangerous conversation, but it can be a fun one.

735
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: I like that the popular misconception. It actually reminds me

736
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: of an article I read of yours recently, which was

737
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: about imposter syndrome and using it as a driving force.

738
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 2: And I think in the article you mentioned that imposter

739
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: syndrome was something that you experienced, and that really surprised

740
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 2: me because you come across as like this very very

741
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: confident kind of person Like, is imposter syndrome something that

742
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: you still experience personally, oh, every single day?

743
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: Like I do an amazing job of hiding it. I've

744
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: I have the best mask of anyone I know, and

745
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: I use my confidence and my outgoing nature and a

746
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: lot of things. I have my artillery to kind of

747
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: handle that. But you know, I was on stage. I

748
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: did an event with Amazon earlier this year in ICC,

749
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: and even though I knew it was in the convention center,

750
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was in the main hall. I

751
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: arrived and there's ten thousand people filtering into the room

752
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: and I've got a twenty minute keynote, and I'm like,

753
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: I have no right to be here. There's nine thousand,

754
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: ten thousand, like highly technical C suite senior leaders who

755
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: really know their stuff. The people that went on before

756
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: me had invented artificial intelligence and robotics. Like, there's young geniuses,

757
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: there's young entrepreneurs, and I'm like, I'm a fraud, And

758
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: you get all those thoughts go through and you're like,

759
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: you know what they asked me to be here, I've

760
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: got my twenty minutes and I'm going to deliver it

761
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: and I'll own it. And if it doesn't go well,

762
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: I'll listen to the feedback, and if it does go well,

763
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: I'll ignore the feedback. And it went amazingly well. Of

764
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: course it went amazingly well. He was always going to

765
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: but that that sort of feeling of I'm out of

766
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: my depth. I'm going to get caught out. Someone's going

767
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: to knock on the door and say, your time's don't mate.

768
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: You You've you've had a good run. You've been caught out.

769
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's a weird one because it's

770
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: part of I think when you acknowledge it and you

771
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: embrace it, it's actually a massive intrinsic motivator to continually

772
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: push and evolve and listen deeply to feedback. And it's

773
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: ironic that I think a lot of people see it

774
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: as if you've got imposter syndrome. You need to stop

775
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: listening to the you know, to the devil voice or

776
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: to the negativity, And actually I go seeking that out now.

777
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm a glutton for punishment, but

778
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: you know, I got some feedback this morning from an

779
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: event I did in the US recently, and I ignored

780
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: all the four and fives out of fives and straight

781
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: went straight to the ones and twos because I wanted

782
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: to know what people hated about it. And so, yeah,

783
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's a sign of madness or maverickness,

784
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 1: but I actually now go looking for some of that

785
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: detractors statements because that enables me to say, I'm in

786
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: charge of this. I'm in control of me, and I'm

787
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: in control of my destination. And of course there's externalities

788
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: and things will always go wrong, but in the long run,

789
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to be all right. And if I keep

790
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: my eyes and ears open and listen to what's happening

791
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: in the world, then I'll be prepared to handle that

792
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: next time. So all I can do is continually improve

793
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: myself and listen and adapt and adopt. And if I

794
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: do that, I've got a chance. And the minute I

795
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: shut down and try and be a singular version of me,

796
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: or stop listening, or get so arrogant and so brought

797
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: up in my own story that I don't actually take

798
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: account of others. Then that's when all the wheels fall off.

799
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: So I think, as long as the mindset's there, it

800
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: can be managed, and it doesn't need to be something

801
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: that causes paralysis. It can be something that actually motivates

802
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: and spurs you on.

803
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 3: So how do you do that?

804
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: Like reading through those ones and two whose and feeling

805
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: excited almost to read through though as as opposed to

806
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: completely demoralize, like what strategies are you're using so that

807
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: you don't just fall in a heap?

808
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: Like is it self talk? Like what's going on in

809
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: your head?

810
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: Then? Yeah, there's a couple of things. One is one

811
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: is kind of the generic platitude of I'm never going

812
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: to be someone like with my style and the stories

813
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: I've got, I know it's highly unlikely for me to

814
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: be in a large room and for everyone to like

815
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: what I say. And if I wanted that as an objective,

816
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't be doing the job I'm doing on

817
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: the topic I'm talking about, because I'm talking about things

818
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: that often make people uncomfortable. I talk about robots and

819
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: automation and changes in roles. I talk about diversity and inclusion.

820
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: I talk about privilege. I talk about innovation and how

821
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: we don't actually do it well. I talk about the

822
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: future of work and all the change that we're not

823
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: ready for, and all these heritage businesses that are going

824
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 1: to be dysfunctional or or just not exist because they're

825
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: so stuck in the past. And people find that challenging

826
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: internline it. It's confronting, and I know it's always going

827
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: to take a few people over the edge. So I'm

828
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: not aiming for five out of five. I think I

829
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: could change in theory, I could change my style and

830
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: my delivery and get a five out five. I don't

831
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: think that would make me any happier. I think that

832
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: would make me generically worse. And so once I've accepted

833
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to sit on the fence, therefore

834
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: my audience won't sit on the fence. I have to

835
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: accept that I'm going to get that mixture. And so

836
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: the trick for me is I'm actually looking for the

837
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: constructive comments, which are actionable. So it's one just and

838
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: I had to release it, and so one just writes,

839
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't like what you talked about. I'm like, cool,

840
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: the thing I can do about that. That's your view

841
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: my view, they're different, jog on. What I'm looking for

842
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: are the people saying, here's what I wanted to take away,

843
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: but here's what I got instead. So I'm like, okay, cool,

844
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: my bio and brief didn't match what I've lived in

845
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: the talk. I can go back and look at that.

846
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: Or someone who said that I spoke too quickly or

847
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: I confused them with one of my points, I can

848
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: go back and improve on that. So what I'm looking

849
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: for there are the insights that helped me get better,

850
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: not the negative nancies or negative noras that I just

851
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: sat there going I didn't like it, because you're always

852
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: going to get a few people who fold their arms

853
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: and just say computer says now, and I'm like, that's okay.

854
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to ignore those because that's not actionable.

855
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: You've had your event. Good on you, and we're actually

856
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: going to focus my time on the people that put

857
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: their energy into give me a constructive comment, and that's

858
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: something that I can work on.

859
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 3: I like that. That's a really helpful way of looking

860
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 3: at things.

861
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 2: Now, you mentioned a question that you love asking before,

862
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 2: but you also told me another one that you love asking,

863
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 2: And I'm going to ask it of you right now.

864
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: What is something that you used to do but no

865
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: longer do that's no longer serving you.

866
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: So probably the funnest exercise I did. I did this

867
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: about a year ago. Now I suddenly start to feel

868
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: a little bit overwhelmed with just the amount of stuff

869
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: I had going on. So I had I was doing

870
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: my four ls, my love doing some things I was

871
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: doing that I loved, and I'm like, unapologetically, I'm going

872
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: to do one of those, because I think we should

873
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: love what we do for work. We spent much time

874
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 1: doing it not to love it. And then when I

875
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: looked at the longed and loathed the longed for. I

876
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: longed for the mentoring and coaching time, and I loathed

877
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: the sheer amount of meetings I was in, Like I

878
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: was drowning in meetings, forums, committees, catch ups, councils, groups, squads, stribes,

879
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: like there was just everyone was pouring at a little

880
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: bit of meat. And I had really bad discipline. So

881
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: I sent a note. I deleted every single meeting out

882
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: of my calendar, and it went with a note that

883
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: said one of three options. This is a boomerang, So

884
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: it comes back. But when the boomerang comes back, it

885
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: comes back with what is my role and responsibility in

886
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: the meeting? What's the purpose of the meeting, and what

887
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: specifically do I add, like why is this meat? Option

888
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: two is a soft boomerang, So it comes back, but

889
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: not to me. So the meeting should still exist. It

890
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: still needs a role and a responsibility, but one of

891
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: my team or someone else could do it. So I'm

892
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: going to about and they can sub in an. Option

893
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: three is it's not a boomerang, it's a stick. See

894
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: stix don't come back when you throw them. And so

895
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: there are the meetings that probably shouldn't exist, and they

896
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: just kind of do. And over a third of the

897
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: meetings never came back, and people were messaging me saying, hey,

898
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: when you challenge us, when you challenges us on that meeting,

899
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: we looked at it. We're like, yeah, that doesn't need

900
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: to exist anymore. It only exists today because it existed

901
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: last year. Because you never kill a meeting, you only

902
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: ever had a meeting, And so there was just mass

903
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: duplication and just the liberation and the freedom that clearing

904
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: that much of my calendar gave me. But also then

905
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: having meetings where I knew what my role was, and

906
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: I promise you eight percent of them, I was turning

907
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: up and thinking I was performing a very different role

908
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: in that meeting, and so just getting the person to

909
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 1: clarify that was a great reduction in my cognitive loads.

910
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, do you want me here to challenge?

911
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: Am I here to contribute? Do I own this? Am

912
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: I the provocateur? Am I here to spa with you?

913
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: Jalks out? You finish it? If you've done I'm not

914
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: articulated my role. I'm going to guess, and the chances

915
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: are I'll get it wrong. And I had I've got

916
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: them wrong because I was in autopilot because I had

917
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: too many meetings. So I now have less meetings, and

918
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: the ones I have, I find are really focused on

919
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: something specific, and I believe that my contribution in those

920
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: meetings is now increased. And then I've carved out that

921
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: free time for doing the thing which I love, which

922
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: is catching and mentoring.

923
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: That is brilliant, What a great story I want to

924
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: finish with kind of some rapid fire questions around what

925
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: you're consuming, because I imagine like part of your title

926
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: is work futurist, and I'm very keen to know your

927
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 2: go to sources of.

928
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 3: Information around various things.

929
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: So firstly, what what are some go to websites that

930
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: you have for finding great information?

931
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: Now this is going to sound really okay. I'm not

932
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: a massive website consumer because if I try and consumer

933
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: a website, I've got five hundred other ways of myself

934
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: and I'll never get below the fold. So I've gone

935
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: old school with most of my consumption. I'm either a

936
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: podcast person or a book And with my traveling, I

937
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: love the fact that in Australia we've not yet discovered

938
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: Wi Fi on planes, and so when I'm flying to

939
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: the US, I get like fifteen hours of uninterrupted reading time.

940
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: So I will download a few podcasts. I've been listening

941
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: to some of yours, Holly Ransom. I love the ones

942
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: on scaling. I love the Stanford ones Bob Sutton and

943
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: Huggy Row on scaling excellence and understanding friction. And then

944
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: I love it every now and then just going for

945
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: and finding a random podcast. The intercom podcast is what

946
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: I regularly listen to, sometimes on product development, sometimes on agility,

947
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: sometimes on an innovation, a complete mix and then reading

948
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: why is that? There's three books that I've I'm kind

949
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: of working through right now, deplaying on my mood. One

950
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: is General Stanley my Crystal Team of Teams. I've actually

951
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: read it once or I'm reading it again because i

952
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: want to soak it all in. I actually got to

953
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: meet Jeff Eggers, who worked for General Stanley Mcrystal on

954
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: those missions, and so I've got to learn a lot

955
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: about the context around that. And Patti McCord Powerful. So

956
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: Patty is the ex chief Talent officer from Netflix, and

957
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: she talks about the fact that we should stop using

958
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 1: the word empowerment and use power instead, because we only

959
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: use empowerment because we took people's power away, so let's

960
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: just give it back to them. An amazing story of

961
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: her lessons and challenges and the highs and the lows

962
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: of not only Netflix, but a lot of the work

963
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: she's been doing with startups afterwards, and then there's an

964
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: amazing book by Sophie Wade on the Future of Work,

965
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: which looks at all the metal level changes around the

966
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: wolf for talent distributed, the remote teams, working hours, workplace

967
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: changes in skills, So they're the three that are keeping

968
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: me sort of challenged and provoked right now.

969
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 3: Fantastic.

970
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: I'll link to all of those in the show notes.

971
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: And finally, dom how can people find you if they

972
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 2: would like to connect or know more about your read

973
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: your ideas.

974
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, they so they can hunt me down on Twitter,

975
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: mat Don Price on LinkedIn dom Price as well. We

976
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: publish all my stuff across those two mediums. And then

977
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: anyone who's got any level of fascination about teamwork or

978
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: struggling in a team. If you google the Elassian Team Playbook,

979
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: that's our free site where we post all of our

980
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: resources on both assessing yourself as a team so the

981
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 1: mirror we shine in front of teams. And then we've

982
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: got about thirty one plays or exercises that you can

983
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: do to improve how your teams work. They're all free

984
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: of charge. It's not a sales pitch, there's no silent required.

985
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: We believe that that knowledge isn't powered. To the application

986
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: of knowledge, that's power, and so we think it's our

987
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: duty to the world to share that stuff and everyone

988
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: gets to unlease their potential together.

989
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 2: Wonderful and there's such great stuff there again, I'll link

990
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: to all that in the show notes.

991
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 3: Dom, thank you so much. I've learned so much. Thank

992
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 3: you so much for your time, Thank you for your time.

993
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: Hello. There.

994
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 2: That's it for today's episode. If you liked it, there

995
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 2: are plenty of others that you might also enjoy, such

996
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: as my chat with Mia Friedman about her trick for

997
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: overcoming procrastination, and my interview with Rachel Botsman, who shares

998
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 2: her one minute alternative to mindfulness. Finally, it's great getting

999
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: feedback from listeners such as yourself, so feel free to

1000
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: give this podcast a review in iTunes or wherever you.

1001
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 3: Get your podcasts.

1002
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: And if you like this episode, make sure you hit

1003
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: the subscribe button so that you can be alerted whenever

1004
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 2: new episodes are released.

1005
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 3: See you next time,