Speaker 1: Ordinarily Speaking. We always talk about the shiny side of success,
Speaker 1: but don't see what happens on the flip side of
Speaker 1: that coin, all the dark, crazy, heartbreaking challenges that go
Speaker 1: into making success too soon time.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Ordinarily Speaking.
Speaker 2: Kate Campbell is a swimming superstar. The four time Olympian
Speaker 2: and Tokyo flag bearer has won eight Olympic medals, four gold,
Speaker 2: one silver, and three bronze. She's using her success in
Speaker 2: the pool as a platform to start a conversation out
Speaker 2: of it, a way to help people emerge from the
Speaker 2: deep end. In this chat, the effervescent twenty nine year
Speaker 2: old speaks from the heart about being diagnosed with depression
Speaker 2: and anxiety. Kate opens up on her lowest moments and
Speaker 2: her ongoing struggle with a stigma surrounding mental health issues.
Speaker 2: If this chat is triggering for you, please know there
Speaker 2: is help out there. Beyond blue dot org, dot AU
Speaker 2: or Lifeline one three double one one four are just
Speaker 2: a couple of places you can go. I hope you
Speaker 2: enjoyed the chat.
Speaker 1: Myself down again.
Speaker 2: I mean you are okay, Thanks so much for spending
Speaker 2: some time with me. I'm really looking forward to this chat.
Speaker 1: Ah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: You've been really open about your mental health in recent months.
Speaker 2: Why did you decide to take a private subject public.
Speaker 1: I think a long time before I felt comfortable sharing
Speaker 1: it publicly, I kept it very private. Why I decided
Speaker 1: to start speaking about it was if I knew that
Speaker 1: other people may be struggled with the same things that
Speaker 1: I did, maybe it would have been more normalized, and
Speaker 1: maybe I would have sought help a little bit earlier,
Speaker 1: or maybe I just wouldn't have felt so ashamed and
Speaker 1: so isolated and so lonely. And I think that sometimes
Speaker 1: we look at quote unquote successful people and I guess that,
Speaker 1: you know, if I was going to be lumped in
Speaker 1: a category, I could get lumped in that successful category.
Speaker 1: And I think that sometimes we think that they are
Speaker 1: inherently different from us, that they reach their success without
Speaker 1: experiencing the same things that we do, or feeling the
Speaker 1: same emotions or going through the same setbacks. And that's
Speaker 1: just not the case. And so I wouldn't want anyone
Speaker 1: who is struggling with mental health or low mood or
Speaker 1: anxiety or anything like that to think I can't go on.
Speaker 1: And I can't achieve something. It took a long time
Speaker 1: for me to be able to feel comfortable enough to
Speaker 1: share publicly. And I I'm now on medication for anxiety
Speaker 1: and depression and I still am And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: I still feel ashamed when I go to the chemist
Speaker 1: and go and fill those scripts and having the pharmacist,
Speaker 1: you know, possibly recognize me and then look at the
Speaker 1: medication that I'm taking, and I know that I shouldn't
Speaker 1: feel ashamed, and logically I'm not ashamed, but that there
Speaker 1: are still those feelings of stigma and shame associated with
Speaker 1: mental ill health. And I think the more that we
Speaker 1: can talk about it and normalize it, the less people
Speaker 1: have to be feeling like that.
Speaker 2: Ashamed is a big word, isn't it.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, you want to like curl up and shrivel
Speaker 1: up and hide, and you don't want to be seen,
Speaker 1: and you're afraid to step into your own skin. You
Speaker 1: want to hide within it and look. I think that
Speaker 1: women in particular are told to feel ashamed about so
Speaker 1: many things. There are so many things that and we
Speaker 1: can feel ashamed about if we can start to peel
Speaker 1: back the layers and question why we're being conditioned to
Speaker 1: feel these things. I think that once you begin to
Speaker 1: name something, you begin to have a bit more power
Speaker 1: over it. And even though I have these feelings of
Speaker 1: shame still associated with my mental health, I can rise
Speaker 1: above it, and I can continue to speak about it
Speaker 1: while carrying those feelings with me. I'm no longer mastered
Speaker 1: by them, so to speak. I can recognize that, you know,
Speaker 1: feelings are irrational, but I like to think that most
Speaker 1: of the time, I'm a pretty rational creature, so I
Speaker 1: can continue to behave an irrational manner even though I
Speaker 1: might be feeling a little irrational.
Speaker 2: It's so funny that you mentioned being a woman as
Speaker 2: a part of mental health, because I've got a bit
Speaker 2: of a theory or something that I've noticed that men
Speaker 2: seem to be getting more comfortable talking about mental health
Speaker 2: than women are. My theory is that women have always
Speaker 2: sort of been told that they're good at talking about
Speaker 2: their feelings, but it's almost now been seen as an
Speaker 2: empowering thing for men to do it, whereas when women
Speaker 2: do it, it's still labeled a little bit of Oh, you're
Speaker 2: not tough enough, or you're too emotional, or you're nodding along.
Speaker 3: What do you think.
Speaker 2: About that as a sort of theory I guess of
Speaker 2: the way, the direction we're moving in.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting because for so long women
Speaker 1: have been tainted by this hysteria brush, right, and we've
Speaker 1: been told that our feelings are what make us weak,
Speaker 1: they are what make us irrational, they're what make us poorer.
Speaker 1: Decision makers are not as good at leading people or
Speaker 1: making really logical, rational decisions. We're actually finding that's not
Speaker 1: the case, right, We're actually finding that emotional intelligence is
Speaker 1: a really key factor to making clear, rational decisions. It's
Speaker 1: a really important factor in making connections, which inherently makes
Speaker 1: you a better leader because you can take people along
Speaker 1: the journey with you. But I think that when women
Speaker 1: are talking about mental health, it's just like, ah, that's
Speaker 1: just hysterical. You know, they're just having a bit of
Speaker 1: a cry, or it's a bit of PMS, right, or
Speaker 1: maybe they're going through menopause or perimenopause, and we just
Speaker 1: expect women to be more emotional and more teary. And
Speaker 1: I think that there's a real difference between being emotional
Speaker 1: and then you know that mental ill health, and sometimes
Speaker 1: it's a fine line and you can kind of dip
Speaker 1: into one or dip into the other. But I don't
Speaker 1: want to take away anything from the progress that has
Speaker 1: been made in men talking about them mental health and
Speaker 1: seeking support and beginning to share their feelings and shedding
Speaker 1: that kind of toxic masculinity banner that they've been forced
Speaker 1: to labor under for a really long time. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's a really good thing. But I think
Speaker 1: that we also need to recognize that when women say
Speaker 1: that I'm really not feeling well, they're not being hysterical,
Speaker 1: they're not on PMS. They maybe have shared this many
Speaker 1: times with their friends, but maybe they still need to
Speaker 1: go and seek help.
Speaker 2: You are so eloquent, this is going to be a
Speaker 2: lot of You've had a heape of success across your career,
Speaker 2: but with that comes a lot of public pressure, a
Speaker 2: lot of I would imagine your own expectations are so
Speaker 2: high on yourself just hearing you talk over the years.
Speaker 2: How do you handle the fear of failure because that
Speaker 2: particularly for athletes, but all humans that fear of failure,
Speaker 2: and you are somebody that demands excellence of yourself, how
Speaker 2: does that hit you across life?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because I think that fear of
Speaker 1: failure is wrapped up in that feeling of shame that
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, and that feeling of social ostracism,
Speaker 1: which you know, we can get into the science of
Speaker 1: human evolution and how humans fear that worse than death.
Speaker 1: That's why you feel really nervous when you're speaking in
Speaker 1: front of people, because you just want people to like you, right,
Speaker 1: because being a part of a tribe is so entrenched
Speaker 1: and part of our DNA. It's how we were wired
Speaker 1: to survive. It's paramount to death. If in the clan
Speaker 1: times you were cast out from your clan, you would
Speaker 1: be in the wilderness. You'd freeze to death, or you
Speaker 1: get eaten by a wild animal. So there is this
Speaker 1: real psychological, deep seated fear of failure and the so
Speaker 1: ostracism that comes with it. And I think that for
Speaker 1: a long time, I'm a big believer that if you
Speaker 1: don't accept something, then you can't learn from it. And
Speaker 1: for a long time I was unable to accept that
Speaker 1: I had this fear of failure, and so I was
Speaker 1: hiding from it and I was refusing to acknowledge that
Speaker 1: it was there. And I have incredibly high standards for myself.
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of that, but I think that sometimes
Speaker 1: we measure success too narrowly, and it is all outcome
Speaker 1: focused and outcome based. My wind lose margins, so my
Speaker 1: success failure margins one hundreds and tenths of a second
Speaker 1: once every four years, or if you're lucky, once every
Speaker 1: five years. And I just think that if we're measuring
Speaker 1: our success off of that which can be so closely
Speaker 1: tied to our personal identity, then we are setting ourselves
Speaker 1: up for this fear of failure. Whereas my goal was
Speaker 1: and always has been to win an individual Olympic gold medal,
Speaker 1: and I have been to four Olympics and I have
Speaker 1: not achieved that, and that begs the question, if that
Speaker 1: is my goal and I have not achieved it, am
Speaker 1: I successful?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And that's a really interesting question, because if we look
Speaker 1: at my career over many many years subjectively objectively, I
Speaker 1: am successful.
Speaker 2: Bloody is successful?
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: But if we have such narrow definitions of success, then
Speaker 1: we really set ourselves up for failure. And so I've
Speaker 1: had to learn to change my definition of success and
Speaker 1: have it as a more internal model that I work
Speaker 1: off and an internal scorecard. If I can do that,
Speaker 1: then even though the outcome may not be exactly what
Speaker 1: I wanted, and this big goal that I've put out
Speaker 1: there and I have been chasing my whole life, I
Speaker 1: can still walk away and feel like I've had some
Speaker 1: measure of success.
Speaker 2: It's funny you mentioned that I had aim In Sullivan
Speaker 2: on in Season one of Ordinarily Speaking, and obviously he
Speaker 2: was the hot you know, favorite to be the world
Speaker 2: record holder to win, and he said he wants to
Speaker 2: get to a point where he can proudly tell his
Speaker 2: kids I won silver, and not that I didn't win
Speaker 2: gold or that I lost gold. Can you empathize with
Speaker 2: that sentiment?
Speaker 1: I can. And it's interesting because if we take my
Speaker 1: results from the most recent Olympics in Tokyo, I won
Speaker 1: two gold medals as part of relay teams and one
Speaker 1: individual bronze medal. And it's interesting when I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm a Grade fiver and go to show and tell
Speaker 1: so often because I just take my medals and show
Speaker 1: them around to people, get them out.
Speaker 2: Where are they actually are? We're in your hotel room
Speaker 2: at the moment, and there is a metal wrapped up
Speaker 2: in I hope they're they're clean socks clean socks.
Speaker 1: Don't worry, they're clean. So oh that's brilliant. Oh so,
Speaker 1: But when when I go and I show people, they
Speaker 1: instantly gravitate towards those gold medals and they grab them,
Speaker 1: and those are the ones that they want photos with.
Speaker 1: But when I look at them, and I'm incredibly proud
Speaker 1: of all of them, but when I look at them,
Speaker 1: there the bronze metal has like extra special meaning to me.
Speaker 1: But externally, that's that's not seen and that's not validated.
Speaker 1: I would say, though, that we are so quick to
Speaker 1: own our successes, but we are less quick to own
Speaker 1: our failures. And something that I am really passionate about
Speaker 1: is is owning both of those and owning both of
Speaker 1: those publicly. So when I speak, I usually mentioned what
Speaker 1: happened in Rio, where I was like Aiman, I was
Speaker 1: the gold medal favorite, the world record holder going in,
Speaker 1: except that instead of winning a silver medal, I won
Speaker 1: no medals in that race. And the more I talk
Speaker 1: about it, the less sting it has. But it also
Speaker 1: helps me own that part of my story and that
Speaker 1: part of my journey, and the more I've spoken about it,
Speaker 1: the less ashamed I feel about it, because it's out
Speaker 1: there and people can see it and they can judge
Speaker 1: me for all the successes, but then all the failures
Speaker 1: as well. It's really interesting whenever I go and speak,
Speaker 1: the MC will introduce me and they'll just be like
Speaker 1: this long highlight list, and I'm like, well, that's not
Speaker 1: actually a true representation of what I have done and
Speaker 1: who I am. Underneath every one of those successes, there's
Speaker 1: like three or four really big failures. If I want
Speaker 1: to be seen and accepted for who I am, then
Speaker 1: I think that I need to display those as well,
Speaker 1: and not just the highlights.
Speaker 2: And I guess that's what this podcast is about. It's
Speaker 2: about celebrating the resilience that it took to have those
Speaker 2: successful moments. I do want to also state, though I
Speaker 2: know for you and not getting a medal in a
Speaker 2: final is a failure for the rest of the world,
Speaker 2: being one of the eight fastest swimmers in that field
Speaker 2: is still bloody successful. But just going back to when
Speaker 2: I first it was really interesting because obviously this is
Speaker 2: a podcast, so nobody can see, but when I first
Speaker 2: asked you about fear of failure, you put your hand
Speaker 2: on your chest and almost leaned forward as though you
Speaker 2: were constricted by just the conversation of it. And you
Speaker 2: mentioned there how you are so hard on yourself, and
Speaker 2: it's brilliant for a journalist to hear the raw honesty.
Speaker 2: But how hard is that to to live within your
Speaker 2: own head, I guess, and those elite expectations.
Speaker 1: So it's funny because I think that sometimes our greatest
Speaker 1: weaknesses and our greatest strengths are two sides of the
Speaker 1: same coin.
Speaker 2: Agree totally.
Speaker 1: So I have incredibly high standards for myself, and I
Speaker 1: set big goals and I challenge myself. I am relentless,
Speaker 1: and that is a really good thing. It's driven me
Speaker 1: to get to where I am. But if I go
Speaker 1: too far and I tip over into constantly relentlessly pushing
Speaker 1: myself and not acknowledging the little winds along the way,
Speaker 1: or not being kind to myself when things don't go
Speaker 1: your way, whether it's my fault, whether it's luck. Like
Speaker 1: I don't think that we acknowledge the role that luck
Speaker 1: plays in life enough because sometimes you can do absolutely
Speaker 1: everything right and then just luck doesn't go your way right,
Speaker 1: and we don't acknowledge that enough. But when that strength,
Speaker 1: that that motivation, those high standards, those expectations. When they
Speaker 1: flip and they go too far, then they begin to
Speaker 1: beat me down instead of pull me up. And so
Speaker 1: it's about finding that right balance between pushing myself and
Speaker 1: challenging myself, but then also knowing when it's okay to
Speaker 1: be kind to yourself and to let those standards lax.
Speaker 1: And for so long, you know, I think that self
Speaker 1: care is having like a real moment and like taking
Speaker 1: time for you and all of that. And I used
Speaker 1: to I used to hate that, like and you know,
Speaker 1: do something for fun, Like I don't have time for fun.
Speaker 1: I need to go and do things. But I now
Speaker 1: see the real benefit in that. And yes, there's there's
Speaker 1: a time to knuckle down, and there's a time to
Speaker 1: work when you don't feel like it and it's not fun.
Speaker 1: But it is also really important to find joy in
Speaker 1: life because that is going to keep you motivated for
Speaker 1: a long time. So it's about figuring out what makes
Speaker 1: you tick, what makes you work, but then being really
Speaker 1: careful that that strength that you have doesn't become this
Speaker 1: weapon that you beat yourself with and drive yourself into
Speaker 1: the ground.
Speaker 2: It's so true you mentioned rio. Take me back to
Speaker 2: that moment and how you felt in that moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting. I remember feeling fine until sort
Speaker 1: of twenty four hours or so, but before the final
Speaker 1: and I received a message from a friend and I
Speaker 1: was kind of like intermittently checking my social media, not
Speaker 1: Instagram or not Facebook, but some of my more private channels.
Speaker 1: And I got a message from a friend saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I've hired out whole boardroom so that everyone in my
Speaker 1: office can watch you race. And I just I suddenly
Speaker 1: was like, Oh my god, they're going to be expecting
Speaker 1: me to win. That's why they hied the boardroom. That's why.
Speaker 1: And I was like, and if I don't win, then
Speaker 1: I'm going to look like an absolute fool. They're going
Speaker 1: to look like a fool. And it just I was
Speaker 1: just like, and I bet there's so many other people
Speaker 1: who are going to be watching this, and if I
Speaker 1: don't win, I'm going to be just the absolute laughing stock.
Speaker 1: And it kind of flicked a bit of a switch,
Speaker 1: and I was just stuck in this fight or flight mode.
Speaker 1: You know, I've done all of the sports psychology and
Speaker 1: the breathing and meditation and everything like that, but I
Speaker 1: couldn't flick this switch off. Once it was on. From
Speaker 1: that point on, when anyone spoke to me, I was
Speaker 1: just like, they expect me to win, they want me
Speaker 1: to win. I have to win. Tension shifted from what
Speaker 1: I need to do if you want to be you know,
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about being process driven instead of
Speaker 1: outcome driven, and it just everything became outcome driven because
Speaker 1: I suddenly saw this big danger of if I didn't win,
Speaker 1: there was gonna be some really bad consequences. And I
Speaker 1: was gonna, you know, be the absolute fol I'm a
Speaker 1: pretty gullible person, so and I'm used to being laughed
Speaker 1: at a lot, but I really don't like it, Like
Speaker 1: I can't take it in a lot. And I was like,
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna be laughing at me, and so behind the block,
Speaker 1: I've never felt in such a heightened state. It was
Speaker 1: like there were so many thoughts racing around my head
Speaker 1: that I couldn't even grab hold of one of them.
Speaker 1: It was felt like there was the equivalent of TV
Speaker 1: static being played in my head when you want to
Speaker 1: be cool and calm or have a focus point for
Speaker 1: what you need to do in your race. But all
Speaker 1: the time I was like, I'm you know, I'm doing
Speaker 1: my breathing exercises. I'm doing everything that I can, like,
Speaker 1: it's all going to be fine. You're telling yourself that
Speaker 1: it's going to be fine when your subconscious brain is
Speaker 1: like danger, danger, danger, And you know everyone has has
Speaker 1: a small fear of false starting. I've never false started
Speaker 1: in my life. I've never flinched on the block. It's
Speaker 1: never been an issue for me. And yet when I
Speaker 1: went down, I flinched on the block, which can end
Speaker 1: up in disqualification or it cannot. It goes either way.
Speaker 1: You know, a flinch on the block before the gun goes,
Speaker 1: you're pretty lucky to get away with it. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh my god, like I've never been
Speaker 1: in that state before. It was really interesting because when
Speaker 1: I turned and put my feet on the wall at
Speaker 1: the fifty meter mark, I knew that this was going
Speaker 1: to be a long way home. Like I just knew
Speaker 1: that it would take everyone else in the race to
Speaker 1: have as shocking a time as I was having for
Speaker 1: me to get this done. And fifty meters can be
Speaker 1: a really long way. And my brain was screaming at
Speaker 1: me to go. But once you've opened the floodgates and
Speaker 1: you flooded your body. With lyctoc acid, your muscles begin
Speaker 1: to shut down, and it doesn't matter what your brain
Speaker 1: is telling you, which is something that I really dislike.
Speaker 1: In sport, we're told, oh, it's the last ten meters,
Speaker 1: it's whoever's mentally tough enough to get there, and I
Speaker 1: just think that's complete bullshit, because everyone who's in that
Speaker 1: race is so mentally tough, and sometimes your body just
Speaker 1: actually shuts down and it doesn't matter what your mind
Speaker 1: screaming at you. So my mind was screaming at me,
Speaker 1: but my body was like, oh, you've really cooked us,
Speaker 1: You've really done a number on this. And I touched
Speaker 1: the wall, and to be honest, like I could see
Speaker 1: the girls next to me who were ahead of me,
Speaker 1: who ended up winning, and so I knew I hadn't won.
Speaker 1: I kind of vaguely looked at the board and saw
Speaker 1: that I hadn't even got a medal, and then it
Speaker 1: was just this big whirlwind blur of like, oh, my god,
Speaker 1: you know that everything that you were terrified of before
Speaker 1: the race, well that's your reality now. It was like
Speaker 1: I was just in a daze, and I got out
Speaker 1: and I did the post race interview, and then I
Speaker 1: had the really long, lonely walk back down to the
Speaker 1: Australian team area. And it's really interesting when people fail
Speaker 1: or they don't perform well, other people don't know what
Speaker 1: to do either, right, And so I felt really shunned
Speaker 1: by some people because they were processing their discomfort with
Speaker 1: what they just watched and maybe they were empathizing, right,
Speaker 1: you know, and they don't know what to do. I
Speaker 1: warmed down, but then there was this really beautiful moment.
Speaker 1: By this stage, it was two or three am, and
Speaker 1: I went back to the village and there were a
Speaker 1: group of athletes who had finished competing and they were
Speaker 1: waiting for me in the dining hall so that I
Speaker 1: would have someone to eat dinner with. And it's funny,
Speaker 1: it's like those moments that I remember really clearly, and
Speaker 1: everything else around it, it's all just this big haze
Speaker 1: because I didn't have time to fully process it or
Speaker 1: understand it, because I still had races to do and
Speaker 1: I had to refocus and I had to go again.
Speaker 1: But it's those moments of kindness that really shone through
Speaker 1: and helped me be like, oh, it's going to be okay.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it was horrible and it was heartbreaking, and
Speaker 1: after I finished racing, I think everyone went out on
Speaker 1: that final night and I just went back to my
Speaker 1: room in the village and just cried, like just sobbed
Speaker 1: and couldn't didn't want to face anyone, and didn't want
Speaker 1: to do anything. But the little bits of kindness that
Speaker 1: were shown to me immediately after the race allowed me
Speaker 1: to continue to do what I needed to do for
Speaker 1: the rest of the week.
Speaker 2: You tell that whole story like you're staring back, Like
Speaker 2: you know when you're in the pool, You're back in
Speaker 2: the pool. When you're walking out, it's like you are
Speaker 2: back doing that walk everything. It's almost like you're visualizing
Speaker 2: being back in that moment.
Speaker 1: Is that Yeah, Well, when we have really heightened emotions,
Speaker 1: it brands that memory into our brains, and ultimately that's
Speaker 1: why we have emotions, right, so that we can remember things.
Speaker 1: So it's like a big warning sign like hey, this
Speaker 1: was really dangerous and it was really bad and you
Speaker 1: felt really awful. We're going to remember everything about it,
Speaker 1: Like I can see it in crystically a deity detail,
Speaker 1: and I've spoken about it enough that I don't have
Speaker 1: to go back down into the feelings of the emotions.
Speaker 1: I can kind of detach from them a little bit.
Speaker 1: But for a long time, every time I spoke about it,
Speaker 1: I could feel those emotions like welling up and put
Speaker 1: pushing inside of me and leaking out my eyes. I
Speaker 1: would just I'd start talking about it and it'd just
Speaker 1: start crying. People be like, Oh, I'm so sad, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. I don't mean to do it. I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's okay, Like it'll stop. I'm actually I'm not that upset,
Speaker 1: but for whatever reason, there's just that's just this well
Speaker 1: of grief associated with it, and eventually it'll stop. And
Speaker 1: sometimes if I'm really tired and you know, not in
Speaker 1: a good frame of mind, it'll bubble up again. But
Speaker 1: I think that for better or for worse, these moments
Speaker 1: of high impact are really branded into our psyche. But
Speaker 1: I think that I have consciously turned and looked at
Speaker 1: and faced it, as opposed to turning away from it,
Speaker 1: which is probably maybe the easier thing to do. But
Speaker 1: then it spills out in other ways.
Speaker 2: What was the shame story that you told yourself after
Speaker 2: that race?
Speaker 1: I have always thought of myself as someone who is
Speaker 1: very reliable. When I stand up to deliver something, I
Speaker 1: can usually do it, even in stressful situations or when
Speaker 1: I'm nervous. Nerves actually sometimes bring out the best in me.
Speaker 1: And so the story that I tell myself is like,
Speaker 1: you can do it, and you are capable, and you're reliable.
Speaker 1: People love winners, right.
Speaker 3: We do.
Speaker 1: We love winners, and I am no longer reliable. I
Speaker 1: am no longer a winner, and therefore I am unlovable
Speaker 1: and my only worth is what I can produce in
Speaker 1: the pool, and I haven't delivered in that. So therefore,
Speaker 1: why do people want to know me? And it was
Speaker 1: really interesting because I was feeling like that, but I
Speaker 1: found out that I was in the minority. Yes, there
Speaker 1: were some horrible people and there were some horrible things
Speaker 1: said about me, but the majority of people were actually
Speaker 1: really kind about it. One of the best and worst
Speaker 1: things that I did after the games was usually after
Speaker 1: an Olympic Games, we get to go around and do
Speaker 1: sort of ticke take parades in all the capital cities
Speaker 1: around Australia. And I did that and I met so
Speaker 1: many of the general public and every time, not every time,
Speaker 1: but most of the time when I met people, they
Speaker 1: were like, oh, you know, we're so proud of you.
Speaker 1: Did such a good job, and that was so contrary
Speaker 1: to how I was feeling about it. Felt like whenever
Speaker 1: anyone gave me a compliment about Rio, felt like someone
Speaker 1: was dragging their nails down a chalkboard. But the more
Speaker 1: that I heard that from people, the more I realized
Speaker 1: that the story that I was telling myself wasn't actually true.
Speaker 1: And so while it was uncomfortable for me to hear that,
Speaker 1: it was also really good. I actually wanted people to
Speaker 1: tell me how awful I was and how disappointed they
Speaker 1: were in me, and all of those things.
Speaker 2: Because that sat more comfortably in that time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it was in line with the story
Speaker 1: that I was telling myself. And we like to be right.
Speaker 2: If I'm going to be a failure, I'm at least
Speaker 2: going to be a correct failure.
Speaker 1: I'm at least going to be.
Speaker 3: Correct in that failure.
Speaker 1: Now you know why I don't have I didn't have
Speaker 1: many friends at school that I like to be right
Speaker 1: all the time. And also, why are you guys having fun?
Speaker 1: We all need to be super serious and we need
Speaker 1: to focus on what our career is and why are
Speaker 1: you going out? And don't pull on all nighter. You
Speaker 1: need to be more prepared. Yeah, Kate, it was not
Speaker 1: very popular at school.
Speaker 3: But when to an Olympics at what sixteen was it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: That didn't make up for all the socials episodes. Oh,
Speaker 3: that's actually very funny.
Speaker 2: How long did it You've grown beautifully through that experience.
Speaker 2: How long did it take you though, to get back
Speaker 2: on track in your mind?
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not sure that I have an exact time.
Speaker 1: It just kind of gradually snuck up on me. So
Speaker 1: I made the decision in twenty seventeen that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be competing at the World Championships, so I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: competing for Australia at a major or our major international competition,
Speaker 1: which was the first time I think since I was
Speaker 1: nine years old that I decided that I didn't want
Speaker 1: to push myself to be the best in the world
Speaker 1: and to represent Australia. Once I made that decision in
Speaker 1: probably sort of late twenty sixteen, I kind of was
Speaker 1: able to take a breath. I still trained and and
Speaker 1: I was able to go and travel and compete at
Speaker 1: competitions all around the world, but I wasn't fit, I
Speaker 1: wasn't strong. As long as I executed my best race
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I'm happy with that. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: make it on the podium, but there was something just
Speaker 1: really joyous about discovering satisfaction in achieving my best performance
Speaker 1: again without that burden of expectation. And I found that
Speaker 1: joy and that love for the sport again and I
Speaker 1: think that was kind of the turning point. So it
Speaker 1: was just it was a step away, a conscious step away,
Speaker 1: but still leaning in recognizing that, yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: give this like another go, see what I can do.
Speaker 2: Fell back in love with the sport.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I termed it as like we were just
Speaker 1: on a break.
Speaker 3: We were on a break, Rachel.
Speaker 1: Except did it take so many seasons? Was to get
Speaker 1: back together?
Speaker 2: Oh there's a friend's episode over everything you're listening to
Speaker 2: ordinarily speaking with Kate Campbell. So you get through Rio?
Speaker 2: When did your mental health? When did you feel like
Speaker 2: something isn't quite right?
Speaker 1: I really struggled after Rio, and I went to my
Speaker 1: GP because I was really struggling, and I said, do
Speaker 1: I need to be on antidepressants? Like I'm feeling really weird?
Speaker 1: And she was like, you know, Okay, you've been through
Speaker 1: something really traumatic. I can see that you've got a
Speaker 1: good support system around you. You are really aware of this.
Speaker 1: I don't think you need to be on antidepressants now.
Speaker 1: It's actually completely normal for you to be grieving and
Speaker 1: feeling like this. And I was like, oh, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: And I'm really glad that at that point she didn't
Speaker 1: put me on antidepressants because I don't think it was
Speaker 1: the correct thing. And I have, you know, a wonderful
Speaker 1: relationship with that GP. I really trusted her judgment. But
Speaker 1: she said, keep coming back and we're just going to
Speaker 1: keep checking in and making sure that you are progressing.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to put you on something that
Speaker 1: there are risks and side effects for everything, but that
Speaker 1: also might not allow you to fully process this experience.
Speaker 1: And then in twenty.
Speaker 2: Sorry, just what were the things that you were feeling
Speaker 2: at the time that made you have that conversation? Oh?
Speaker 1: I was just I was crying a lot, and I
Speaker 1: was wanting to be like really reckless or I was
Speaker 1: looking back with this really narrow, bitter lens on this
Speaker 1: life that I had led, Like you know, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, my life is so beige. I'd been to
Speaker 1: three Olympics, Like, that's not a beige life. But I
Speaker 1: think that i'd just been I was just so embittered
Speaker 1: by all of the sacrifices I'd had to make to
Speaker 1: achieve this goal of an Olympic gold medal, and then
Speaker 1: it hadn't paid off, and I was just like, well,
Speaker 1: what was that for? Why did I put myself through
Speaker 1: through that? So then I tried to go off the rails,
Speaker 1: but I'm way too sensible to go off the rails, honestly.
Speaker 3: Why The most reckless thing I did was kind of.
Speaker 1: Secondy of piercing in my left ear.
Speaker 3: Every time you look at your left ear and do you.
Speaker 2: Just go, yeah, that's a reckless Kate nailed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. For a long time it was like the
Speaker 1: only earring I would wear. I'd be like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: a bad bitch, like too.
Speaker 2: Nerdy to be reckless. I just couldn't channel you inner,
Speaker 2: just grable it.
Speaker 1: No, just really didn't enjoy it. And so then I
Speaker 1: was like feeling like I was trying all these things
Speaker 1: and nothing was making me feel any better. She was
Speaker 1: just like, it's completely normal. You're you're going through a
Speaker 1: process of grieving and rediscovery. I'm so thankful I don't
Speaker 1: go and get a tattoo or something like because that
Speaker 1: that could have been a possibility. So and and and
Speaker 1: she was right. I took a step back from things
Speaker 1: and lean into what life could look like outside of
Speaker 1: the pool and got my second ear piercing. And then.
Speaker 2: Is that part of your pre race ritual now to
Speaker 2: look at that second year piece?
Speaker 1: I actually I actually play with it so much it's
Speaker 1: become like a little thing. I'm just like, it's okay, Kate,
Speaker 1: You're You're a bad bitch, your secondy and piercing.
Speaker 3: Oh god.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm really really glad that that she was
Speaker 1: cognizant enough just to recognize that this was a completely
Speaker 1: normal react and behavior for me, because I'd never been
Speaker 1: untethered from the yoke of swimming before I said the
Speaker 1: yoke of swimming. But I loved it, really was. It
Speaker 1: was a labor of love completely until it wasn't. And
Speaker 1: then twenty eighteen was fantastic year for me. Twenty nineteen
Speaker 1: was pretty good, but I went through a bad breakup
Speaker 1: and I moved to Sydney and was incredibly isolated down there,
Speaker 1: struggling to find friends. I also traveled for sort of
Speaker 1: five months of that year, some of it by myself,
Speaker 1: quite a lot of it by myself. And then I
Speaker 1: was kind of hitting my groove and hitting the stride,
Speaker 1: hitting my strides and going from strength to strength and
Speaker 1: really feeling like this Olympics twenty twenty, it was going
Speaker 1: to be my Olympics, right, This was it. Physically, I
Speaker 1: was so good in training. I was just doing things
Speaker 1: that were just stupid, like I'd never died, I'd never
Speaker 1: be I've been able to perform as well as I was.
Speaker 1: I was recovering from sets my times. We were so
Speaker 1: fast and so consistent with racing really well. I was
Speaker 1: strong and I've I've battled kind of weights, were lifting,
Speaker 1: so chin ups are like my bread and butter. So
Speaker 1: I was, you know, doing chin ups with forty two
Speaker 1: forty five kilos around my waist and that's crazy. I'm
Speaker 1: can't even do it chin up. I've been doing that
Speaker 1: for a long time. So my injuries, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been quite injured over the past couple of years, they
Speaker 1: were all under control, and it was just like, yes,
Speaker 1: I am finally hitting some momentum and moving forward. And
Speaker 1: then the twenty third of March twenty twenty, the Olympics
Speaker 1: are not happening, and it was just like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: And then remember when the whole of Australia went into lockdown,
Speaker 1: Like that seems like another lifetime ago. We lost all
Speaker 1: access to all training facilities, no access to coach. I
Speaker 1: ended up coming back to Brisbane because I'd been living
Speaker 1: in Sydney at the time. I didn't want to go
Speaker 1: through lockdown in a one bedroom apartment in a suburb
Speaker 1: where I had no friends. Came back to Brisbane and
Speaker 1: stayed at a house with a couple of my really
Speaker 1: good mates, which was wonderful. Discovered that I'm not very
Speaker 1: good at exercising by myself, shock horror. So I just
Speaker 1: bullied all my housemates into exercising with.
Speaker 3: Me once again. Being friends with Kate sounds like.
Speaker 1: Your I was running forty five sessions in the backyard
Speaker 1: pilates at lunchtime and they were like locked out, in
Speaker 1: the best shape of their life. So they're welcome, but
Speaker 1: they were also Once they saw me get in my
Speaker 1: car and drive down to Sydney, We're like, oh, thank god, ay.
Speaker 3: Got you a bad bitch.
Speaker 1: So I had to leave this environment that where I
Speaker 1: was like really well connected and go back down to Sydney.
Speaker 1: I was incredibly isolated, and I think that it has
Speaker 1: made me realize the impact that loneliness has on people,
Speaker 1: and it's a real physical thing. You feel like it's
Speaker 1: your fault and that you are unlovable, not that you know.
Speaker 1: You live in a city with lots of people who
Speaker 1: have incredibly busy lives, and I were already well connected
Speaker 1: and plugged into a community. And it's not that they
Speaker 1: don't like you, it's just that they don't have the
Speaker 1: capacity to think of you. So I'd gone back to
Speaker 1: Sydney in May of that year, and then it was
Speaker 1: about July. I had no energy. I wasn't recovering. My
Speaker 1: injuries were really bad. I was feeling really emotional all
Speaker 1: the time and really sad all the time. There wasn't
Speaker 1: any joy and sometimes I could go. I would speak
Speaker 1: to members of my squad on a Saturday morning and
Speaker 1: then not speak to another single person until I went
Speaker 1: to training on Monday morning. And there are only so
Speaker 1: many beaches that you can explore and sunsets that you
Speaker 1: can watch or sunrises that you can photograph that will
Speaker 1: try and fill that void. But eventually it kind of
Speaker 1: opens up and becomes this chasm that I then just
Speaker 1: fell into. So I I had this moment where I
Speaker 1: just had a complete meltdown over something that was so irrational.
Speaker 1: I was trying to make a cup of hot chocolate
Speaker 1: before I went to bed, and the power kept on
Speaker 1: tripping and so I couldn't heat up the milk, and
Speaker 1: then I just I just cried, and not just like
Speaker 1: a little tears, like full sobbing. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this isn't normal. There's something wrong. I think I need
Speaker 1: to go get some help. So then i'd, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I got up early the next morning before training and
Speaker 1: googled frantically around for a psychologist because all I needed
Speaker 1: to do was get some strategies.
Speaker 3: To help me stop crying. Needed a process.
Speaker 1: I just needed a process. And I remember like going
Speaker 1: to training the next morning and being like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I have just booked in to see a psychologist. I
Speaker 1: can't let anyone here know because that is admitting weakness.
Speaker 1: And like I was so in such an emotionally heightened
Speaker 1: place that I had to keep leaving the gym and
Speaker 1: going like do breathing exercises in the bathroom to like
Speaker 1: try and calm down so that I wouldn't just burst
Speaker 1: into tears then, but yeah, it was. It was that
Speaker 1: process of like complete meltdown, which I now am able
Speaker 1: to pick up a lot earlier, saw a psychology just
Speaker 1: for a while, and things got a bit better, and
Speaker 1: I felt like I was feeling pretty good. But then
Speaker 1: by the time Olympic trials rolled around in June of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, I realized that things weren't as good
Speaker 1: as I thought that they were. So I, like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm used to competing in high pressure situations.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: Competition is always Yes, it's nerve racking, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of like why I swim, because no one trains to
Speaker 1: train like my goodness, so me training it's so boring,
Speaker 1: Like whoever says that it's not is a freak, because
Speaker 1: sometimes it really is, like you're staring at the black
Speaker 1: line for a really long time. You can't talk to people.
Speaker 1: It's really hard work. I am only discovering this because
Speaker 1: I'm on a bit of a break now, and I
Speaker 1: realized that it's not normal to wake up with your
Speaker 1: whole body hurting and headache. That it's completely normal to
Speaker 1: be able to feel like you can manage the day
Speaker 1: without having to like go and lie down for half
Speaker 1: an hour finally enough. Training for an Olympic Games is
Speaker 1: really hard work. Who would have thought, So you kind
Speaker 1: of put yourself through that so that you can compete
Speaker 1: and so that you can stand up and see what
Speaker 1: you can do. And I had been working with a
Speaker 1: psychologist after I moved I moved back to Brisbane at
Speaker 1: the beginning of twenty twenty one because my coach moved
Speaker 1: moved back to Brisbane. So we'd been training in Brisbane.
Speaker 1: So I'd found a new psychologist and I was working
Speaker 1: with her. I was working with a sport mindset coach.
Speaker 1: I attended like meditation seminars, all of these things, all
Speaker 1: of the right things, you know, did all the things
Speaker 1: I did, all the things I had equipped myself so well.
Speaker 1: And the closer we got to Olympic trials, the more
Speaker 1: there was just like this impending sense of doom. So
Speaker 1: I'm from Queensland, and the way that I describe it,
Speaker 1: it was like before a big storm, you know, when
Speaker 1: you can feel that pressure and there's like this mugginess
Speaker 1: and this stickiness, and you can feel like something's gonna
Speaker 1: happen and it's looming and it's coming, and the closer
Speaker 1: I got to the trials sort of, the more intense
Speaker 1: that that pressured state became. And nothing I did helped, right, Like,
Speaker 1: none of my mind all the mindfulness training, all the
Speaker 1: mindset stuff that I was going through, none of it
Speaker 1: helped this this feeling that this overwhelming sense of dread
Speaker 1: that there was this thing looming.
Speaker 3: It felt physical, It felt physical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I couldn't couldn't breathe properly. I started
Speaker 1: to get really emotional again, and I just remember, you know,
Speaker 1: calling my partner, and my friends are just being like
Speaker 1: if I don't make it, like will you still love me?
Speaker 1: Like I'm so afraid. I I just need to get
Speaker 1: through this if it all goes bad, like will you
Speaker 1: still be okay? Like We're still gonna be okay, And
Speaker 1: they're all like yes, Kate, of course, of course. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I managed to get through Olympic Trials and I qualified
Speaker 1: for the one hundred freestyle and the fifty freestyle. But
Speaker 1: after the race, there was no sense of joy. There
Speaker 1: wasn't even a sense of relief. There was just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I have to do this again in
Speaker 1: five weeks time, I have to do this again. And
Speaker 1: I have to feel like this again. And I was
Speaker 1: kind of like laughing to disguise how awful I was feeling.
Speaker 1: To people. They were like, oh, congratulations, Kate, and I
Speaker 1: was like, ha ha ha, I'm never doing this again.
Speaker 1: And in my head I was like, this is it.
Speaker 1: I'm making it through this Olympics and then I'm retiring
Speaker 1: and then I'm out. I'm done. Nothing is worth like this.
Speaker 1: Two days after after that, I was lying awake at
Speaker 1: night just contemplating that the next five weeks of my life,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, hang on, this isn't normal, right,
Speaker 1: This isn't you. You love racing and you love competing,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you've always been a nervous racer. I always
Speaker 1: get very nervous, but that's completely normal. But this is
Speaker 1: something different. I think that you might need some help.
Speaker 1: You've done everything right. It was at eleven o'clock when
Speaker 1: I clicked on my phone and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: I need a book in and see my GP. And
Speaker 1: I went in and I was like, I need some help.
Speaker 1: And this was four weeks before the Olympic Games.
Speaker 2: How did you feel when you said those words, I
Speaker 2: need some help?
Speaker 1: I at this point, I was kind of numb, but
Speaker 1: because I was just like, well, I'm feeling so bad,
Speaker 1: asking for help or asking to go I meet it
Speaker 1: can't hurt, you know. I was very clear that I'm
Speaker 1: a bit of a control freak. Surprise, surprise, and I
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't want to lose myself. I wanted to
Speaker 1: find myself again because I was so lost. You know.
Speaker 1: My GP was so wonderful and she was like, Yep,
Speaker 1: we definitely have things that we can help you with.
Speaker 1: You have extreme high, extremely high levels of anxiety and
Speaker 1: probably low levels of depression. The drugs take two to
Speaker 1: three weeks to kick in, and I can say that
Speaker 1: about sort of a week and a half, two weeks
Speaker 1: out from when I was you to start racing, I
Speaker 1: gradually began to notice that I was feeling a lot better.
Speaker 1: And I now look back and I look at the
Speaker 1: months that I spent, you know, working with the psychologists
Speaker 1: and the mindset coach and the meditation and all of that,
Speaker 1: and I think that all of that is useful, and
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I have those tools. But if
Speaker 1: I had, if there had been a normal conversation about
Speaker 1: seeking medical help around anxiety and depression, I would have
Speaker 1: gotten help a lot earlier, and I probably would have
Speaker 1: been able to have been in a much better mental
Speaker 1: state for a lot longer and physical state. I've noticed
Speaker 1: it since I've allowed my central nervous system to have
Speaker 1: a bit of a break from that fight or flight state,
Speaker 1: that my injuries have been a lot better as well.
Speaker 1: The super acute random flare ups that I was getting
Speaker 1: routinely in the lead into the Olympics have calmed down
Speaker 1: a lot, not completely, but a lot. So I was
Speaker 1: just like, well, if I didn't know how beneficial and
Speaker 1: how common it is, you know, once I started, I
Speaker 1: spoke to a few really close friends and they were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm on that, or I've taken that before, or yeah,
Speaker 1: at a really stressful point in my life I did that.
Speaker 1: I was like, why didn't you tell me? If I'd
Speaker 1: known that, I might have done something earlier. So if
Speaker 1: me sharing it and normalizing it means someone who is
Speaker 1: feeling really horrible is doing all the right things and
Speaker 1: is unsure of, you know, what the future looks like
Speaker 1: or what else they can do if it makes them go, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: maybe I should go and speak to my GP, and
Speaker 1: maybe that'll be really helpful for me. Then I think
Speaker 1: that that's a really good thing.
Speaker 2: As an athlete. Were you a bit nervous or terrified
Speaker 2: or going on a medicaid? You know, because everything that
Speaker 2: you put into your body is is amplified or focused on.
Speaker 2: I guess was that a cause of concern? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a massive cause of concern. And like
Speaker 1: I said that, there are side effects with every medication,
Speaker 1: but at that point, I was just like, it's wor
Speaker 1: taking the risk. I don't want to be feeling this
Speaker 1: awful when I'm supposed to be competing at an Olympic Games.
Speaker 1: I've already felt awful in the wake of an Olympic
Speaker 1: Games before. I don't want to go into one feeling
Speaker 1: this bad.
Speaker 2: It's a brave call and a clearly a brilliant call.
Speaker 1: It's a desperate call, right, Okay, I wouldn't. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that it is brave because it was desperation that
Speaker 1: drove me to that point.
Speaker 2: Do you feel differently about medication now and even the
Speaker 2: word medication? Do you feel differently about it now to
Speaker 2: what you did what twelve months ago?
Speaker 1: I rationally feel very different about it because it's allowed
Speaker 1: me to find myself again. I am able to cope
Speaker 1: with situations and find joy and meaning and connection and
Speaker 1: being able to completely relax into who I actually am
Speaker 1: instead of constantly having to fight to find that person
Speaker 1: through the haze of anxiety and depression. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I still struggle every time I go and have to
Speaker 1: fill my script in at the pharmacy because there is
Speaker 1: such a stigma around it. But it's really interesting because medication, right,
Speaker 1: everyone takes a lot of medication without even thinking about it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you how many anti inflammatory pills I've
Speaker 1: taken in my life and I haven't even thought about it.
Speaker 1: And I've been on like prescription anti inflammatory medication. I've
Speaker 1: never even blinked. And yet somehow with a medication that
Speaker 1: affects your mental state, there's no sense of what you
Speaker 1: have an injury and this is to help the inflammation
Speaker 1: around that, to help it bring you back down to
Speaker 1: a normal level. It's like no, no, no, you're weak.
Speaker 1: You should be able to figure this out. You need
Speaker 1: to breathe or do mindfulness or speak to a psychologist
Speaker 1: and sort out your issues, as opposed to like, actually,
Speaker 1: hang on, here's a point of inflammation. There's an injury here,
Speaker 1: whether it's either from a really acute event or repetitive strain.
Speaker 1: And I think that mine was a repetitive strain injury
Speaker 1: to my brain. But there's not a discussion of like,
Speaker 1: hang on, there's this point of injury here, let's get
Speaker 1: it back down so it's under control and so that
Speaker 1: you can begin to function the gain. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the way I rationalize it to myself.
Speaker 2: I think it's a great way of looking at it,
Speaker 2: because it's not like you ever stand in the mirror
Speaker 2: and look at your hamstrings or your calves and go
Speaker 2: why you're so weak?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, And often you get to that point because you've
Speaker 1: pushed so hard, right, and you know, for better or
Speaker 1: for worse, you've pushed past the levels that your body
Speaker 1: can cope with, which takes a lot of strength to
Speaker 1: do that, right, to push yourself to a point of injury,
Speaker 1: it's not something that anyone wants. But if you get
Speaker 1: a physical injury, it's like, oh, well, you must have
Speaker 1: pushed too hard. But if you are suffering with mental
Speaker 1: ill health, it's, oh, well, you're a bit weak for
Speaker 1: feeling like this.
Speaker 2: What kind of stuff? And you don't have to share.
Speaker 2: What kind of stuff are you talking about with your psychologists?
Speaker 1: Oh, a bit of everything. And it was when I
Speaker 1: went to that first session, I was very adamant that
Speaker 1: there was absolutely nothing wrong with me. I just needed
Speaker 1: some techniques to stop myself crying, right, I need some tools.
Speaker 1: I need some tools because I'm a completely normal, rational
Speaker 1: person and I am crying irrationally, so therefore, just give
Speaker 1: me some tools to calm this down. And I went
Speaker 1: in there and I was like, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: so cool and so calm. Just you wait, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be like the best patient that she's ever seen.
Speaker 3: You're even competitive with them?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know, I'm honestly insufferable. She gave
Speaker 1: me like this survey to fill out, and I was like, yeap,
Speaker 1: I really nailed that. She definitely doesn't think I am
Speaker 1: a complete nut job, because only nut jobs come and
Speaker 1: see psychologists. And she looked at it and she was like,
Speaker 1: so I'm seeing extreme levels of anxiety and high levels
Speaker 1: of depression. And I was just like I pretty much
Speaker 1: cried for the whole session and then gave myself the
Speaker 1: goal of, you know, in the subsequent weeks to make
Speaker 1: it through a full session without crying, I think. And
Speaker 1: sometimes I would cry, but I wouldn't cry enough to
Speaker 1: need a tissue. So it was like a little half win.
Speaker 3: Oh you are brilliant.
Speaker 1: But and the way that I thought of her was
Speaker 1: like a physio for my brain. Physios they feel around
Speaker 1: and then they find a sore spot and they push
Speaker 1: on it. And I felt like that's what she was
Speaker 1: doing to my brain. Any little you know, feelings of
Speaker 1: whether it was loneliness or not feeling worthy or struggling
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. She should find that and then
Speaker 1: should push and it should.
Speaker 3: Be like this.
Speaker 1: One hurts right, yeah, yeah, like why why do you
Speaker 1: feel like this? And so yeah, a lot of things
Speaker 1: and then you know, a lot of techniques. She did
Speaker 1: help me with some techniques, and I was very clear.
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to know why my brain
Speaker 1: is doing this, and I want to know what I
Speaker 1: can do when I'm in this state to get out
Speaker 1: of it. And so she gave me, you know, a
Speaker 1: whole heap of techniques and I was able to employ
Speaker 1: them when I was starting to feel really overwhelmed. I
Speaker 1: also wanted the physical description of what my brain was
Speaker 1: going through because then I felt like it wasn't my
Speaker 1: fault so much.
Speaker 2: That's interesting as well. I find with mental health it's
Speaker 2: one thing the things that you start to tell yourself,
Speaker 2: the shame stories that you start to tell yourself. But
Speaker 2: when things tip over is when you start to believe
Speaker 2: those things.
Speaker 3: Is the what you were experiencing.
Speaker 1: M and you know other things that we spoke about,
Speaker 1: which she was like, we don't have to believe all
Speaker 1: our thoughts, and I was like, you know, I'm having
Speaker 1: all these thoughts and I was stuck in like this
Speaker 1: thought voor takes of like your week, you're worthless, your
Speaker 1: your life is good. You don't deserve to be feeling
Speaker 1: this bad. Get a grip. You should be stronger, you
Speaker 1: should be better, you should be able to get over this,
Speaker 1: you know, or all of those that you are, or
Speaker 1: then you should the two really bad things to get it.
Speaker 1: And she was like, well, actually, you don't have to
Speaker 1: believe the things that you think. People think all kinds
Speaker 1: of things and that's not actually true. I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, but whenever I walk over a bridge, I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna throw my phone off the bridge. I
Speaker 1: never do, but before whatever reason, my brain feeds me
Speaker 1: that thought every time I walk over a bridge, and
Speaker 1: so if I can easily discredit that thought, I need
Speaker 1: to be able to differentiate and discredit thoughts when they're
Speaker 1: not rational or they're not serving me.
Speaker 2: Well, what have the struggles taught you? And are you
Speaker 2: more of a compassionate person, not just to other people
Speaker 2: but also to yourself?
Speaker 1: Oh, I have so so much more empathy and understanding
Speaker 1: for people who are experiencing times of distress. The thing
Speaker 1: that I struggled with the most was that, like, I
Speaker 1: have a very good life, right, I get to live
Speaker 1: out my childhood dream. I do have good friends, Like
Speaker 1: they weren't in Sydney, but I do have good friends.
Speaker 1: I have a good family. I make a really steady income,
Speaker 1: Like I don't have to stress about money, I don't
Speaker 1: have to stress about food. So I kind of thought
Speaker 1: that the only time that you can feel bad is
Speaker 1: when the external things in your life are really bad.
Speaker 1: And so it's given me a much greater compassion for
Speaker 1: people who maybe their lives look really perfect on the outside,
Speaker 1: but on the inside, who knows what's going on? Right,
Speaker 1: And more than anything else, I have complete compassion and
Speaker 1: sympathy for people who are going somewhere new or doing
Speaker 1: something new and don't have a support system. Because that
Speaker 1: loneliness and isolation was the main driving force I think
Speaker 1: it was. It was the thing that that tipped me over.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've learned over this process
Speaker 1: is that, you know, I would berate myself for things
Speaker 1: with the benefit of hindsight. So I'd look at a
Speaker 1: situation in the past, but I'd bring the knowledge that
Speaker 1: I have today and apply that to the situation in
Speaker 1: the past, and I'd say, like, I should have I
Speaker 1: should have known back then that I needed to embed
Speaker 1: myself and find some friends and like, you know, really
Speaker 1: try and do all these things, and I should have
Speaker 1: done this, and I should have done that. And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: hang on, at the time, you were just doing the
Speaker 1: best that you could with the knowledge that you had
Speaker 1: at your disposal.
Speaker 2: So taking all of this into consideration, you know, the
Speaker 2: days of crying, the moments, the conversations, the bravery, the
Speaker 2: desperation to go on medication. You touch the wall, you
Speaker 2: look up, you win bronze, and your tears afterwards were
Speaker 2: just beautiful. One of my favorite moments of the Olympics,
Speaker 2: tell me what's going through your mind in that moment
Speaker 2: when you know the rest of the world at this
Speaker 2: point didn't know, but you know what you've been through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was really strange but really lovely
Speaker 1: that that morning before the final, Like, yes, I was nervous,
Speaker 1: I one hundred percent was, but it was almost like
Speaker 1: I was just accepting of whatever there was to come,
Speaker 1: which was a very different sty eight compared to where
Speaker 1: I was at in Rio, where I was just terrified
Speaker 1: and the only outcome that I could possibly see or
Speaker 1: possibly cope with would be a gold medal. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was nervous, but there was this really beautiful sense of
Speaker 1: calm as well, which was so lovely because considering like
Speaker 1: five weeks earlier, when I was just hot mess, I
Speaker 1: was really scared that I would get to get into
Speaker 1: the Olympics and feeling like that, and I wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: I was myself again, because I'm usually someone who's pretty
Speaker 1: in control, and I was. I was calm, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this feels good going into these Olympics.
Speaker 1: My goal was best execution. Can I execute the race
Speaker 1: to the best of my ability in whatever physical or
Speaker 1: mental state that I have on the day, can I
Speaker 1: swim a race that is the best representation of that?
Speaker 1: And that's ultimately all you can ask of yourself, right
Speaker 1: because at some time, invariably, someone is going to be
Speaker 1: better than you, and they're going to do a better
Speaker 1: job than you. And if you believe that the only
Speaker 1: way that you've done a good job is if you
Speaker 1: want a gold medal, at some point you're going to
Speaker 1: just be so bitterly disappointed. And I had been in
Speaker 1: that point before. I was just I was really clear
Speaker 1: on exactly what I needed to do in that race,
Speaker 1: and standing behind the blocks, I was really deliberate in
Speaker 1: my thought processes, and you know, remained in the moment,
Speaker 1: and then I touched the wall and I knew with
Speaker 1: complete certainty that I had executed that perfect race right,
Speaker 1: that I had done everything that I possibly could to
Speaker 1: get the best out of myself. But I also knew
Speaker 1: I had one because I was right next to Emma McKeon,
Speaker 1: who did win, and she was, you know, a good
Speaker 1: arm's length in front of me. So I had this
Speaker 1: this moment where I had peace before I turned around
Speaker 1: and looked at the scoreboard, and then once I saw
Speaker 1: I want a bronze medal and that at all like
Speaker 1: came out and I was just yeah, and I'd won
Speaker 1: a bronze medal by six one hundreds of a second
Speaker 1: because I was six one hundreds of a second in
Speaker 1: front of the person who got fourth. That's the blink
Speaker 1: of a human eye. If I had allowed myself to
Speaker 1: be derailed for even a fraction of a second before
Speaker 1: or during the race, I wouldn't have ended up on
Speaker 1: the podium. So yeah, and then I was just so happy,
Speaker 1: and I honestly, I honestly felt like i'd want gold,
Speaker 1: like and I know that I did it, but I.
Speaker 3: Just I really felt like I didn't.
Speaker 1: And then it was beautiful because Emma of caused one
Speaker 1: gold and so we got to see the national anthem
Speaker 1: on the podium together and I was like, ah, the
Speaker 1: thing I just cried for for the whole rest of
Speaker 1: the session. I look back, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm so embarrassed by it, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm just fully embraced it and led it. I couldn't
Speaker 1: contain it.
Speaker 2: I have full body goosebump when you talk about that.
Speaker 2: That must have just been such a fulfilling, tremendous feeling.
Speaker 2: After putting yourself through such torment for so long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that, you know, so many people
Speaker 1: were like, oh, you know, do you need to atone
Speaker 1: for real? Like the narrative was around this redemption story,
Speaker 1: and to be honest, I was just like, it's not
Speaker 1: a redemption story. I'm just lugging to be here and
Speaker 1: no one knows that. So I've done a lot just
Speaker 1: to get here. Forget the redemption. It's just about getting here.
Speaker 1: It's been that much of a struggle.
Speaker 3: Tell me about Iron Woman.
Speaker 1: Oh, I pick a song before each competition and that
Speaker 1: just kind of gets put on repeat, and it has
Speaker 1: to be catchy, so it like sticks in your brain
Speaker 1: so that when you start to I tend to catastrophize
Speaker 1: a lot. And there was just something about those lyrics
Speaker 1: that I just just resonated with me so strongly. You
Speaker 1: are the person you are because of the experiences that
Speaker 1: you had, and like, yes, that you know you've been down,
Speaker 1: but that's what's made you stronger and all of these things.
Speaker 1: I think what resonated with me about that song was
Speaker 1: that it didn't shy away from the fact that things
Speaker 1: were really hard. But it's in the tough times that
Speaker 1: you get your strength, and I was like, I've had
Speaker 1: some tough types, so I'm really strong.
Speaker 3: I've got a second ear ring in my left. Look
Speaker 3: how badass I am. It's a pretty cool anthem.
Speaker 1: Though, like, ah yeah, it was my mindset coach who
Speaker 1: kind of suggested it. She was like, for me, when
Speaker 1: I think of you, I just think of I a woman.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, that is the song that
Speaker 1: is going to be it mew.
Speaker 2: With all that said and done, what would you tell
Speaker 2: the sixteen year old that was first going to to
Speaker 2: an Olympics, the little girl that's going to be a
Speaker 2: golden girl and the pressure on her shoulders and you've
Speaker 2: got a massive smile when you're almost visualizing that little
Speaker 2: sixteen year old.
Speaker 1: Oh, she was so earnest. She was so earnest, and
Speaker 1: she thought she knew so much. She actually didn't know anything.
Speaker 1: I think this whole experience has made me see the
Speaker 1: value of people and human connections and relationships so much
Speaker 1: more than I think I had previously. So I would
Speaker 1: say that invest in people because they are going to
Speaker 1: be what get you through life. It's not going to
Speaker 1: be the highs or the accolades or the metal sitting
Speaker 1: in socks down there. It's interesting because part of me says, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, try and have a bit more balanced life.
Speaker 1: But when you're trying to achieve something really great, balance
Speaker 1: gods out of whack. And that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1: But I would say that in investing a bit more
Speaker 1: time and effort and energy into the people around you,
Speaker 1: and I was just lucky that I had some really
Speaker 1: great people who allowed themselves to be completely neglected by
Speaker 1: me and was still there. But it makes me very
Speaker 1: grateful that I had them. If I have one regret
Speaker 1: out of it all, it was that I allowed myself
Speaker 1: to be so consumed by my ambition that I forgot
Speaker 1: how important those people were to me.
Speaker 2: And to be kind to yourself and to be kind
Speaker 2: to yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that one of the beauties is
Speaker 1: when you invest in other people when you can't be
Speaker 1: kind to yourself, they can help you be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1: But when you're kind to other people, you're more likely
Speaker 1: to be kind to yourself, And when you're kind yourself,
Speaker 1: you're more like to be kind to other people. Like
Speaker 1: a kind of it's all circuit so profound.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I've said, you know, in the last
Speaker 2: couple of years that if you can't find the capacity
Speaker 2: to be kind to yourself, do something nice for somebody else,
Speaker 2: Because you're right, it does help. If nothing else, it
Speaker 2: gets you out of your own head. And the other
Speaker 2: thing is I think now the good people life experiences.
Speaker 2: If you can tick those two things off, the rest
Speaker 2: of it doesn't seem to matter so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that the past eighteen months have
Speaker 1: really shone a light on how warped our aspirations have become.
Speaker 1: I'm no longer impressed by fancy things or chines, trinkets.
Speaker 1: The people who I look to and respect to those
Speaker 1: who make meaningful connections with other people.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have achieved so much, but this has
Speaker 2: just been a real joy, getting a greater insight into
Speaker 2: the mentality and the resilience and what you've overcome.
Speaker 3: And you have a lot of things that you say
Speaker 3: that I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, So I really appreciate your time and congratulations
Speaker 2: because it was an epic campaign, a couple of gold
Speaker 2: and a bronze that I think the whole country was
Speaker 2: super proud of you, So well done. I really appreciate
Speaker 2: your time today, that's bad time. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 2: this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If this chat was triggering
Speaker 2: for you, please know there is help out there beyond
Speaker 2: blue dot Org, dot au or Lifeline are just a
Speaker 2: couple of places you can go if you want to
Speaker 2: get in touch with the podcast at Ordinarily Underscore Speaking
Speaker 2: on Instagram or at Narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter. A
Speaker 2: new episode will drop next week.
Speaker 1: Jesus or a meg.
Speaker 2: Because I'm comp between the fire and with send me
Speaker 2: that you want a mego