WEBVTT - Cate Campbell - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.520 Ordinarily Speaking. We always talk about the shiny side of success, 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.080 but don't see what happens on the flip side of 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:17.280 that coin, all the dark, crazy, heartbreaking challenges that go 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:22.480 into making success too soon time. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.800 Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Ordinarily Speaking. 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:36.360 Kate Campbell is a swimming superstar. The four time Olympian 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.600 and Tokyo flag bearer has won eight Olympic medals, four gold, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.440 one silver, and three bronze. She's using her success in 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.360 the pool as a platform to start a conversation out 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.159 of it, a way to help people emerge from the 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.120 deep end. In this chat, the effervescent twenty nine year 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.360 old speaks from the heart about being diagnosed with depression 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.440 and anxiety. Kate opens up on her lowest moments and 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:05.240 her ongoing struggle with a stigma surrounding mental health issues. 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.440 If this chat is triggering for you, please know there 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.920 is help out there. Beyond blue dot org, dot AU 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.440 or Lifeline one three double one one four are just 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.160 a couple of places you can go. I hope you 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:20.800 enjoyed the chat. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:24.039 Myself down again. 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:32.600 I mean you are okay, Thanks so much for spending 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.679 some time with me. I'm really looking forward to this chat. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:36.160 Ah, thank you for having me. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.040 You've been really open about your mental health in recent months. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.600 Why did you decide to take a private subject public. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.360 I think a long time before I felt comfortable sharing 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.480 it publicly, I kept it very private. Why I decided 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.200 to start speaking about it was if I knew that 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.800 other people may be struggled with the same things that 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.920 I did, maybe it would have been more normalized, and 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.680 maybe I would have sought help a little bit earlier, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.360 or maybe I just wouldn't have felt so ashamed and 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.880 so isolated and so lonely. And I think that sometimes 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.919 we look at quote unquote successful people and I guess that, 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.799 you know, if I was going to be lumped in 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.040 a category, I could get lumped in that successful category. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.880 And I think that sometimes we think that they are 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.880 inherently different from us, that they reach their success without 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.760 experiencing the same things that we do, or feeling the 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.600 same emotions or going through the same setbacks. And that's 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.440 just not the case. And so I wouldn't want anyone 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:47.040 who is struggling with mental health or low mood or 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.360 anxiety or anything like that to think I can't go on. 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.000 And I can't achieve something. It took a long time 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.920 for me to be able to feel comfortable enough to 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:03.120 share publicly. And I I'm now on medication for anxiety 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.840 and depression and I still am And it's interesting because 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.639 I still feel ashamed when I go to the chemist 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.960 and go and fill those scripts and having the pharmacist, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.000 you know, possibly recognize me and then look at the 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:21.720 medication that I'm taking, and I know that I shouldn't 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.240 feel ashamed, and logically I'm not ashamed, but that there 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:30.160 are still those feelings of stigma and shame associated with 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.480 mental ill health. And I think the more that we 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.440 can talk about it and normalize it, the less people 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:37.440 have to be feeling like that. 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.120 Ashamed is a big word, isn't it. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.520 M Yeah, you want to like curl up and shrivel 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.200 up and hide, and you don't want to be seen, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.480 and you're afraid to step into your own skin. You 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.200 want to hide within it and look. I think that 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.200 women in particular are told to feel ashamed about so 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.360 many things. There are so many things that and we 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.480 can feel ashamed about if we can start to peel 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.680 back the layers and question why we're being conditioned to 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.520 feel these things. I think that once you begin to 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.080 name something, you begin to have a bit more power 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:20.440 over it. And even though I have these feelings of 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:25.360 shame still associated with my mental health, I can rise 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.760 above it, and I can continue to speak about it 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:32.760 while carrying those feelings with me. I'm no longer mastered 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.359 by them, so to speak. I can recognize that, you know, 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.520 feelings are irrational, but I like to think that most 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.480 of the time, I'm a pretty rational creature, so I 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.039 can continue to behave an irrational manner even though I 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:46.840 might be feeling a little irrational. 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.120 It's so funny that you mentioned being a woman as 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.800 a part of mental health, because I've got a bit 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.560 of a theory or something that I've noticed that men 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.080 seem to be getting more comfortable talking about mental health 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.640 than women are. My theory is that women have always 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:06.840 sort of been told that they're good at talking about 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.320 their feelings, but it's almost now been seen as an 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.200 empowering thing for men to do it, whereas when women 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.000 do it, it's still labeled a little bit of Oh, you're 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.400 not tough enough, or you're too emotional, or you're nodding along. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:21.640 What do you think. 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:23.839 About that as a sort of theory I guess of 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.640 the way, the direction we're moving in. 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:26.720 Yeah. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:32.159 I think it's really interesting because for so long women 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:38.280 have been tainted by this hysteria brush, right, and we've 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.200 been told that our feelings are what make us weak, 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.040 they are what make us irrational, they're what make us poorer. 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:52.800 Decision makers are not as good at leading people or 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:57.400 making really logical, rational decisions. We're actually finding that's not 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:02.240 the case, right, We're actually finding that emotional intelligence is 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.040 a really key factor to making clear, rational decisions. It's 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.920 a really important factor in making connections, which inherently makes 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.679 you a better leader because you can take people along 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.120 the journey with you. But I think that when women 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.800 are talking about mental health, it's just like, ah, that's 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.440 just hysterical. You know, they're just having a bit of 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.280 a cry, or it's a bit of PMS, right, or 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:31.279 maybe they're going through menopause or perimenopause, and we just 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.920 expect women to be more emotional and more teary. And 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:42.400 I think that there's a real difference between being emotional 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:47.560 and then you know that mental ill health, and sometimes 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.880 it's a fine line and you can kind of dip 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.599 into one or dip into the other. But I don't 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.760 want to take away anything from the progress that has 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:01.520 been made in men talking about them mental health and 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:06.000 seeking support and beginning to share their feelings and shedding 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.800 that kind of toxic masculinity banner that they've been forced 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.400 to labor under for a really long time. And I 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.160 think that that's a really good thing. But I think 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.440 that we also need to recognize that when women say 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.040 that I'm really not feeling well, they're not being hysterical, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:27.880 they're not on PMS. They maybe have shared this many 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.440 times with their friends, but maybe they still need to 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:32.240 go and seek help. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:34.840 You are so eloquent, this is going to be a 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:42.560 lot of You've had a heape of success across your career, 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.760 but with that comes a lot of public pressure, a 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.440 lot of I would imagine your own expectations are so 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.400 high on yourself just hearing you talk over the years. 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.080 How do you handle the fear of failure because that 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.840 particularly for athletes, but all humans that fear of failure, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.640 and you are somebody that demands excellence of yourself, how 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.560 does that hit you across life? 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.600 Yeah, it's really interesting because I think that fear of 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:13.720 failure is wrapped up in that feeling of shame that 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.680 we were talking about earlier, and that feeling of social ostracism, 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.960 which you know, we can get into the science of 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.000 human evolution and how humans fear that worse than death. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.840 That's why you feel really nervous when you're speaking in 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.280 front of people, because you just want people to like you, right, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.559 because being a part of a tribe is so entrenched 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.600 and part of our DNA. It's how we were wired 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:42.800 to survive. It's paramount to death. If in the clan 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.320 times you were cast out from your clan, you would 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.040 be in the wilderness. You'd freeze to death, or you 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:53.920 get eaten by a wild animal. So there is this 0:08:54.520 --> 0:09:00.120 real psychological, deep seated fear of failure and the so 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:05.280 ostracism that comes with it. And I think that for 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.200 a long time, I'm a big believer that if you 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:14.320 don't accept something, then you can't learn from it. And 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.240 for a long time I was unable to accept that 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.200 I had this fear of failure, and so I was 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.679 hiding from it and I was refusing to acknowledge that 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.480 it was there. And I have incredibly high standards for myself. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.040 I'm not afraid of that, but I think that sometimes 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:40.800 we measure success too narrowly, and it is all outcome 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.120 focused and outcome based. My wind lose margins, so my 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.160 success failure margins one hundreds and tenths of a second 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.720 once every four years, or if you're lucky, once every 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.439 five years. And I just think that if we're measuring 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.400 our success off of that which can be so closely 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:04.319 tied to our personal identity, then we are setting ourselves 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:09.680 up for this fear of failure. Whereas my goal was 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.000 and always has been to win an individual Olympic gold medal, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.360 and I have been to four Olympics and I have 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.640 not achieved that, and that begs the question, if that 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:21.600 is my goal and I have not achieved it, am 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:22.360 I successful? 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:23.400 Right? 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:28.000 And that's a really interesting question, because if we look 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.760 at my career over many many years subjectively objectively, I 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:33.640 am successful. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:34.679 Bloody is successful? 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:35.000 Right. 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:39.040 But if we have such narrow definitions of success, then 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.840 we really set ourselves up for failure. And so I've 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:47.520 had to learn to change my definition of success and 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:52.560 have it as a more internal model that I work 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.839 off and an internal scorecard. If I can do that, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:01.000 then even though the outcome may not be exactly what 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.319 I wanted, and this big goal that I've put out 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.560 there and I have been chasing my whole life, I 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.880 can still walk away and feel like I've had some 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:12.480 measure of success. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.960 It's funny you mentioned that I had aim In Sullivan 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.160 on in Season one of Ordinarily Speaking, and obviously he 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.800 was the hot you know, favorite to be the world 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.760 record holder to win, and he said he wants to 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.400 get to a point where he can proudly tell his 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:32.560 kids I won silver, and not that I didn't win 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.600 gold or that I lost gold. Can you empathize with 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:36.280 that sentiment? 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:42.560 I can. And it's interesting because if we take my 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.720 results from the most recent Olympics in Tokyo, I won 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.120 two gold medals as part of relay teams and one 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.640 individual bronze medal. And it's interesting when I feel like 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.040 I'm a Grade fiver and go to show and tell 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.280 so often because I just take my medals and show 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:59.840 them around to people, get them out. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:08.800 Where are they actually are? We're in your hotel room 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.000 at the moment, and there is a metal wrapped up 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.920 in I hope they're they're clean socks clean socks. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:22.520 Don't worry, they're clean. So oh that's brilliant. Oh so, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.280 But when when I go and I show people, they 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.360 instantly gravitate towards those gold medals and they grab them, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.600 and those are the ones that they want photos with. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:36.000 But when I look at them, and I'm incredibly proud 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:37.680 of all of them, but when I look at them, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.240 there the bronze metal has like extra special meaning to me. 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.720 But externally, that's that's not seen and that's not validated. 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.720 I would say, though, that we are so quick to 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.640 own our successes, but we are less quick to own 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:59.680 our failures. And something that I am really passionate about 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.960 is is owning both of those and owning both of 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:07.440 those publicly. So when I speak, I usually mentioned what 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.800 happened in Rio, where I was like Aiman, I was 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.360 the gold medal favorite, the world record holder going in, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.679 except that instead of winning a silver medal, I won 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:22.440 no medals in that race. And the more I talk 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.640 about it, the less sting it has. But it also 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.400 helps me own that part of my story and that 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.520 part of my journey, and the more I've spoken about it, 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.720 the less ashamed I feel about it, because it's out 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.040 there and people can see it and they can judge 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.800 me for all the successes, but then all the failures 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.840 as well. It's really interesting whenever I go and speak, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.560 the MC will introduce me and they'll just be like 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.920 this long highlight list, and I'm like, well, that's not 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:58.240 actually a true representation of what I have done and 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.840 who I am. Underneath every one of those successes, there's 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:06.000 like three or four really big failures. If I want 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.400 to be seen and accepted for who I am, then 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.880 I think that I need to display those as well, 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:13.640 and not just the highlights. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.800 And I guess that's what this podcast is about. It's 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.720 about celebrating the resilience that it took to have those 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.200 successful moments. I do want to also state, though I 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.360 know for you and not getting a medal in a 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.960 final is a failure for the rest of the world, 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.440 being one of the eight fastest swimmers in that field 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:36.080 is still bloody successful. But just going back to when 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.280 I first it was really interesting because obviously this is 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.880 a podcast, so nobody can see, but when I first 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:42.960 asked you about fear of failure, you put your hand 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.120 on your chest and almost leaned forward as though you 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.360 were constricted by just the conversation of it. And you 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.840 mentioned there how you are so hard on yourself, and 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.720 it's brilliant for a journalist to hear the raw honesty. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.240 But how hard is that to to live within your 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.720 own head, I guess, and those elite expectations. 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.880 So it's funny because I think that sometimes our greatest 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.600 weaknesses and our greatest strengths are two sides of the 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:15.160 same coin. 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:16.280 Agree totally. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.800 So I have incredibly high standards for myself, and I 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.960 set big goals and I challenge myself. I am relentless, 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.400 and that is a really good thing. It's driven me 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.760 to get to where I am. But if I go 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:39.880 too far and I tip over into constantly relentlessly pushing 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:44.360 myself and not acknowledging the little winds along the way, 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.120 or not being kind to myself when things don't go 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.520 your way, whether it's my fault, whether it's luck. Like 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.120 I don't think that we acknowledge the role that luck 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.320 plays in life enough because sometimes you can do absolutely 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.760 everything right and then just luck doesn't go your way right, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.720 and we don't acknowledge that enough. But when that strength, 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:10.080 that that motivation, those high standards, those expectations. When they 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.560 flip and they go too far, then they begin to 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.320 beat me down instead of pull me up. And so 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:20.920 it's about finding that right balance between pushing myself and 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:26.200 challenging myself, but then also knowing when it's okay to 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.320 be kind to yourself and to let those standards lax. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.280 And for so long, you know, I think that self 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.480 care is having like a real moment and like taking 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:37.080 time for you and all of that. And I used 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.640 to I used to hate that, like and you know, 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.360 do something for fun, Like I don't have time for fun. 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.200 I need to go and do things. But I now 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.880 see the real benefit in that. And yes, there's there's 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:51.600 a time to knuckle down, and there's a time to 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.960 work when you don't feel like it and it's not fun. 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.160 But it is also really important to find joy in 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.760 life because that is going to keep you motivated for 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:06.320 a long time. So it's about figuring out what makes 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.440 you tick, what makes you work, but then being really 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.120 careful that that strength that you have doesn't become this 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.360 weapon that you beat yourself with and drive yourself into 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:17.840 the ground. 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.879 It's so true you mentioned rio. Take me back to 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.560 that moment and how you felt in that moment. 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:34.960 Yeah, it's really interesting. I remember feeling fine until sort 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.600 of twenty four hours or so, but before the final 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.560 and I received a message from a friend and I 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:49.440 was kind of like intermittently checking my social media, not 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.320 Instagram or not Facebook, but some of my more private channels. 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.000 And I got a message from a friend saying, oh, 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:59.480 I've hired out whole boardroom so that everyone in my 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.560 office can watch you race. And I just I suddenly 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:09.000 was like, Oh my god, they're going to be expecting 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:13.560 me to win. That's why they hied the boardroom. That's why. 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.720 And I was like, and if I don't win, then 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.600 I'm going to look like an absolute fool. They're going 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.199 to look like a fool. And it just I was 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.399 just like, and I bet there's so many other people 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.480 who are going to be watching this, and if I 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.359 don't win, I'm going to be just the absolute laughing stock. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.840 And it kind of flicked a bit of a switch, 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.399 and I was just stuck in this fight or flight mode. 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.800 You know, I've done all of the sports psychology and 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:49.880 the breathing and meditation and everything like that, but I 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.359 couldn't flick this switch off. Once it was on. From 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.399 that point on, when anyone spoke to me, I was 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.600 just like, they expect me to win, they want me 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.600 to win. I have to win. Tension shifted from what 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.359 I need to do if you want to be you know, 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.240 we talk a lot about being process driven instead of 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.080 outcome driven, and it just everything became outcome driven because 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.560 I suddenly saw this big danger of if I didn't win, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.000 there was gonna be some really bad consequences. And I 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.600 was gonna, you know, be the absolute fol I'm a 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.080 pretty gullible person, so and I'm used to being laughed 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:26.959 at a lot, but I really don't like it, Like 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:28.639 I can't take it in a lot. And I was like, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:34.399 everyone's gonna be laughing at me, and so behind the block, 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.639 I've never felt in such a heightened state. It was 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.080 like there were so many thoughts racing around my head 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.480 that I couldn't even grab hold of one of them. 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.000 It was felt like there was the equivalent of TV 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.919 static being played in my head when you want to 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:53.520 be cool and calm or have a focus point for 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.399 what you need to do in your race. But all 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.240 the time I was like, I'm you know, I'm doing 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.080 my breathing exercises. I'm doing everything that I can, like, 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.000 it's all going to be fine. You're telling yourself that 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.600 it's going to be fine when your subconscious brain is 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:12.080 like danger, danger, danger, And you know everyone has has 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.640 a small fear of false starting. I've never false started 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.600 in my life. I've never flinched on the block. It's 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.639 never been an issue for me. And yet when I 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:25.439 went down, I flinched on the block, which can end 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.760 up in disqualification or it cannot. It goes either way. 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.440 You know, a flinch on the block before the gun goes, 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:34.280 you're pretty lucky to get away with it. And I 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.040 was just like, oh my god, like I've never been 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:42.040 in that state before. It was really interesting because when 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.240 I turned and put my feet on the wall at 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.959 the fifty meter mark, I knew that this was going 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.960 to be a long way home. Like I just knew 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.320 that it would take everyone else in the race to 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.919 have as shocking a time as I was having for 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.359 me to get this done. And fifty meters can be 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.720 a really long way. And my brain was screaming at 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.040 me to go. But once you've opened the floodgates and 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.600 you flooded your body. With lyctoc acid, your muscles begin 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.400 to shut down, and it doesn't matter what your brain 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.400 is telling you, which is something that I really dislike. 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.359 In sport, we're told, oh, it's the last ten meters, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.359 it's whoever's mentally tough enough to get there, and I 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.679 just think that's complete bullshit, because everyone who's in that 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.320 race is so mentally tough, and sometimes your body just 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.720 actually shuts down and it doesn't matter what your mind 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.359 screaming at you. So my mind was screaming at me, 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.760 but my body was like, oh, you've really cooked us, 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.680 You've really done a number on this. And I touched 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:47.760 the wall, and to be honest, like I could see 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.000 the girls next to me who were ahead of me, 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.240 who ended up winning, and so I knew I hadn't won. 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.280 I kind of vaguely looked at the board and saw 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.439 that I hadn't even got a medal, and then it 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.080 was just this big whirlwind blur of like, oh, my god, 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.159 you know that everything that you were terrified of before 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:12.000 the race, well that's your reality now. It was like 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.640 I was just in a daze, and I got out 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.080 and I did the post race interview, and then I 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:22.560 had the really long, lonely walk back down to the 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:28.800 Australian team area. And it's really interesting when people fail 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.240 or they don't perform well, other people don't know what 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:37.000 to do either, right, And so I felt really shunned 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:43.240 by some people because they were processing their discomfort with 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:45.880 what they just watched and maybe they were empathizing, right, 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:48.840 you know, and they don't know what to do. I 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:53.199 warmed down, but then there was this really beautiful moment. 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.800 By this stage, it was two or three am, and 0:22:58.119 --> 0:22:59.679 I went back to the village and there were a 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.960 group of athletes who had finished competing and they were 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:07.640 waiting for me in the dining hall so that I 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.720 would have someone to eat dinner with. And it's funny, 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.879 it's like those moments that I remember really clearly, and 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.240 everything else around it, it's all just this big haze 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.840 because I didn't have time to fully process it or 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:22.879 understand it, because I still had races to do and 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:24.919 I had to refocus and I had to go again. 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:30.920 But it's those moments of kindness that really shone through 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:36.120 and helped me be like, oh, it's going to be okay. 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:38.679 And yeah, it was horrible and it was heartbreaking, and 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:43.280 after I finished racing, I think everyone went out on 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.359 that final night and I just went back to my 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.200 room in the village and just cried, like just sobbed 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.160 and couldn't didn't want to face anyone, and didn't want 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:57.679 to do anything. But the little bits of kindness that 0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:01.840 were shown to me immediately after the race allowed me 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:03.960 to continue to do what I needed to do for 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:04.800 the rest of the week. 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:10.000 You tell that whole story like you're staring back, Like 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:12.119 you know when you're in the pool, You're back in 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:14.200 the pool. When you're walking out, it's like you are 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:19.119 back doing that walk everything. It's almost like you're visualizing 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.000 being back in that moment. 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:25.320 Is that Yeah, Well, when we have really heightened emotions, 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:30.280 it brands that memory into our brains, and ultimately that's 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:33.199 why we have emotions, right, so that we can remember things. 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:36.480 So it's like a big warning sign like hey, this 0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:38.320 was really dangerous and it was really bad and you 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.520 felt really awful. We're going to remember everything about it, 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:43.960 Like I can see it in crystically a deity detail, 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.040 and I've spoken about it enough that I don't have 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:50.440 to go back down into the feelings of the emotions. 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:52.640 I can kind of detach from them a little bit. 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.840 But for a long time, every time I spoke about it, 0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:59.920 I could feel those emotions like welling up and put 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.439 pushing inside of me and leaking out my eyes. I 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:05.879 would just I'd start talking about it and it'd just 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:08.320 start crying. People be like, Oh, I'm so sad, I'm 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:09.560 so sorry. I don't mean to do it. I'm like, 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:13.800 it's okay, Like it'll stop. I'm actually I'm not that upset, 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:17.440 but for whatever reason, there's just that's just this well 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:21.240 of grief associated with it, and eventually it'll stop. And 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.520 sometimes if I'm really tired and you know, not in 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:27.720 a good frame of mind, it'll bubble up again. But 0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:32.160 I think that for better or for worse, these moments 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.480 of high impact are really branded into our psyche. But 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:40.080 I think that I have consciously turned and looked at 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:43.480 and faced it, as opposed to turning away from it, 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.960 which is probably maybe the easier thing to do. But 0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:48.800 then it spills out in other ways. 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:51.800 What was the shame story that you told yourself after 0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:52.600 that race? 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:58.919 I have always thought of myself as someone who is 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:04.199 very reliable. When I stand up to deliver something, I 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:10.240 can usually do it, even in stressful situations or when 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:15.560 I'm nervous. Nerves actually sometimes bring out the best in me. 0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:19.560 And so the story that I tell myself is like, 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:24.679 you can do it, and you are capable, and you're reliable. 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.160 People love winners, right. 0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:29.560 We do. 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:36.879 We love winners, and I am no longer reliable. I 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:40.520 am no longer a winner, and therefore I am unlovable 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:45.119 and my only worth is what I can produce in 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:49.120 the pool, and I haven't delivered in that. So therefore, 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:53.199 why do people want to know me? And it was 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.439 really interesting because I was feeling like that, but I 0:26:56.520 --> 0:27:00.600 found out that I was in the minority. Yes, there 0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:02.919 were some horrible people and there were some horrible things 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.959 said about me, but the majority of people were actually 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:11.240 really kind about it. One of the best and worst 0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:15.920 things that I did after the games was usually after 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.280 an Olympic Games, we get to go around and do 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:21.639 sort of ticke take parades in all the capital cities 0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:25.840 around Australia. And I did that and I met so 0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:30.520 many of the general public and every time, not every time, 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:32.840 but most of the time when I met people, they 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:34.480 were like, oh, you know, we're so proud of you. 0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:36.600 Did such a good job, and that was so contrary 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.199 to how I was feeling about it. Felt like whenever 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:41.800 anyone gave me a compliment about Rio, felt like someone 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:47.040 was dragging their nails down a chalkboard. But the more 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:49.680 that I heard that from people, the more I realized 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.840 that the story that I was telling myself wasn't actually true. 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:56.280 And so while it was uncomfortable for me to hear that, 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:59.399 it was also really good. I actually wanted people to 0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:03.040 tell me how awful I was and how disappointed they 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.280 were in me, and all of those things. 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:07.320 Because that sat more comfortably in that time. 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:10.159 Oh yeah, and it was in line with the story 0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:13.080 that I was telling myself. And we like to be right. 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:16.680 If I'm going to be a failure, I'm at least 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:17.840 going to be a correct failure. 0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:18.880 I'm at least going to be. 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:20.160 Correct in that failure. 0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:26.439 Now you know why I don't have I didn't have 0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.040 many friends at school that I like to be right 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:31.840 all the time. And also, why are you guys having fun? 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:34.800 We all need to be super serious and we need 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:38.000 to focus on what our career is and why are 0:28:38.040 --> 0:28:41.440 you going out? And don't pull on all nighter. You 0:28:41.520 --> 0:28:45.360 need to be more prepared. Yeah, Kate, it was not 0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:46.760 very popular at school. 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.120 But when to an Olympics at what sixteen was it? 0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:51.800 Yeah? 0:28:51.880 --> 0:29:00.600 That didn't make up for all the socials episodes. Oh, 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:02.080 that's actually very funny. 0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:10.640 How long did it You've grown beautifully through that experience. 0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:14.280 How long did it take you though, to get back 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:15.440 on track in your mind? 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:22.040 Oh, I'm not sure that I have an exact time. 0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.400 It just kind of gradually snuck up on me. So 0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:31.040 I made the decision in twenty seventeen that I wouldn't 0:29:31.240 --> 0:29:34.560 be competing at the World Championships, so I wouldn't be 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:39.440 competing for Australia at a major or our major international competition, 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:42.080 which was the first time I think since I was 0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:45.320 nine years old that I decided that I didn't want 0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:49.160 to push myself to be the best in the world 0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:52.880 and to represent Australia. Once I made that decision in 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:57.320 probably sort of late twenty sixteen, I kind of was 0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:00.120 able to take a breath. I still trained and and 0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:03.600 I was able to go and travel and compete at 0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:06.000 competitions all around the world, but I wasn't fit, I 0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:09.480 wasn't strong. As long as I executed my best race 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:11.479 I was like, yeah, I'm happy with that. I wouldn't 0:30:11.520 --> 0:30:13.720 make it on the podium, but there was something just 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:19.800 really joyous about discovering satisfaction in achieving my best performance 0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.440 again without that burden of expectation. And I found that 0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:25.560 joy and that love for the sport again and I 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:27.560 think that was kind of the turning point. So it 0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:29.680 was just it was a step away, a conscious step away, 0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:33.520 but still leaning in recognizing that, yeah, I want to 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.640 give this like another go, see what I can do. 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:38.120 Fell back in love with the sport. 0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:42.000 Yeah. Yeah. I termed it as like we were just 0:30:42.160 --> 0:30:42.840 on a break. 0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:49.640 We were on a break, Rachel. 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:52.200 Except did it take so many seasons? Was to get 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:52.800 back together? 0:30:54.840 --> 0:31:02.200 Oh there's a friend's episode over everything you're listening to 0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:08.600 ordinarily speaking with Kate Campbell. So you get through Rio? 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:12.840 When did your mental health? When did you feel like 0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:14.960 something isn't quite right? 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:20.400 I really struggled after Rio, and I went to my 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:24.400 GP because I was really struggling, and I said, do 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:27.600 I need to be on antidepressants? Like I'm feeling really weird? 0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:30.280 And she was like, you know, Okay, you've been through 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:34.640 something really traumatic. I can see that you've got a 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:38.200 good support system around you. You are really aware of this. 0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:40.800 I don't think you need to be on antidepressants now. 0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.560 It's actually completely normal for you to be grieving and 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:47.720 feeling like this. And I was like, oh, okay, cool, 0:31:47.840 --> 0:31:50.360 And I'm really glad that at that point she didn't 0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:52.880 put me on antidepressants because I don't think it was 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:56.360 the correct thing. And I have, you know, a wonderful 0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:59.840 relationship with that GP. I really trusted her judgment. But 0:31:59.880 --> 0:32:02.840 she said, keep coming back and we're just going to 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:05.680 keep checking in and making sure that you are progressing. 0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.080 But I don't want to put you on something that 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:11.280 there are risks and side effects for everything, but that 0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:15.719 also might not allow you to fully process this experience. 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:20.880 And then in twenty. 0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:23.920 Sorry, just what were the things that you were feeling 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.960 at the time that made you have that conversation? Oh? 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:32.640 I was just I was crying a lot, and I 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:35.600 was wanting to be like really reckless or I was 0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:40.840 looking back with this really narrow, bitter lens on this 0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:43.680 life that I had led, Like you know, I said, oh, 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:46.880 you know, my life is so beige. I'd been to 0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:50.080 three Olympics, Like, that's not a beige life. But I 0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:53.240 think that i'd just been I was just so embittered 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:56.200 by all of the sacrifices I'd had to make to 0:32:57.680 --> 0:33:00.200 achieve this goal of an Olympic gold medal, and then 0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:02.040 it hadn't paid off, and I was just like, well, 0:33:02.120 --> 0:33:05.120 what was that for? Why did I put myself through 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.240 through that? So then I tried to go off the rails, 0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:13.240 but I'm way too sensible to go off the rails, honestly. 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:17.200 Why The most reckless thing I did was kind of. 0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:20.880 Secondy of piercing in my left ear. 0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:26.720 Every time you look at your left ear and do you. 0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.360 Just go, yeah, that's a reckless Kate nailed it. 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.240 Yeah. Yeah. For a long time it was like the 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:35.360 only earring I would wear. I'd be like, yeah, I'm 0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:41.440 a bad bitch, like too. 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.280 Nerdy to be reckless. I just couldn't channel you inner, 0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:45.560 just grable it. 0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:48.719 No, just really didn't enjoy it. And so then I 0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:51.200 was like feeling like I was trying all these things 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:56.360 and nothing was making me feel any better. She was 0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.400 just like, it's completely normal. You're you're going through a 0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:04.960 process of grieving and rediscovery. I'm so thankful I don't 0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:09.040 go and get a tattoo or something like because that 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:16.839 that could have been a possibility. So and and and 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:20.400 she was right. I took a step back from things 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.600 and lean into what life could look like outside of 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.760 the pool and got my second ear piercing. And then. 0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:33.480 Is that part of your pre race ritual now to 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:34.680 look at that second year piece? 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:38.359 I actually I actually play with it so much it's 0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:41.040 become like a little thing. I'm just like, it's okay, Kate, 0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:45.120 You're You're a bad bitch, your secondy and piercing. 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:48.640 Oh god. 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:54.879 So yeah, I'm really really glad that that she was 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.360 cognizant enough just to recognize that this was a completely 0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:02.200 normal react and behavior for me, because I'd never been 0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:06.440 untethered from the yoke of swimming before I said the 0:35:06.560 --> 0:35:09.759 yoke of swimming. But I loved it, really was. It 0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:14.000 was a labor of love completely until it wasn't. And 0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:18.000 then twenty eighteen was fantastic year for me. Twenty nineteen 0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:22.640 was pretty good, but I went through a bad breakup 0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:27.240 and I moved to Sydney and was incredibly isolated down there, 0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:30.960 struggling to find friends. I also traveled for sort of 0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:33.720 five months of that year, some of it by myself, 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:38.400 quite a lot of it by myself. And then I 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:41.280 was kind of hitting my groove and hitting the stride, 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:43.719 hitting my strides and going from strength to strength and 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:48.759 really feeling like this Olympics twenty twenty, it was going 0:35:48.800 --> 0:35:52.200 to be my Olympics, right, This was it. Physically, I 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:55.320 was so good in training. I was just doing things 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:58.680 that were just stupid, like I'd never died, I'd never 0:35:58.760 --> 0:36:01.160 be I've been able to perform as well as I was. 0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:04.920 I was recovering from sets my times. We were so 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:09.600 fast and so consistent with racing really well. I was 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.680 strong and I've I've battled kind of weights, were lifting, 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:18.319 so chin ups are like my bread and butter. So 0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:21.440 I was, you know, doing chin ups with forty two 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:25.080 forty five kilos around my waist and that's crazy. I'm 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:28.279 can't even do it chin up. I've been doing that 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:31.440 for a long time. So my injuries, you know, I've 0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:34.160 been quite injured over the past couple of years, they 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:36.799 were all under control, and it was just like, yes, 0:36:37.160 --> 0:36:42.400 I am finally hitting some momentum and moving forward. And 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:49.000 then the twenty third of March twenty twenty, the Olympics 0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:53.360 are not happening, and it was just like, oh my god. 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.600 And then remember when the whole of Australia went into lockdown, 0:36:57.640 --> 0:37:00.839 Like that seems like another lifetime ago. We lost all 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:05.200 access to all training facilities, no access to coach. I 0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:08.239 ended up coming back to Brisbane because I'd been living 0:37:08.239 --> 0:37:09.680 in Sydney at the time. I didn't want to go 0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:13.480 through lockdown in a one bedroom apartment in a suburb 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:16.600 where I had no friends. Came back to Brisbane and 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:18.440 stayed at a house with a couple of my really 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:21.759 good mates, which was wonderful. Discovered that I'm not very 0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:26.040 good at exercising by myself, shock horror. So I just 0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:29.040 bullied all my housemates into exercising with. 0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:32.840 Me once again. Being friends with Kate sounds like. 0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:37.719 Your I was running forty five sessions in the backyard 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:41.000 pilates at lunchtime and they were like locked out, in 0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:44.160 the best shape of their life. So they're welcome, but 0:37:44.200 --> 0:37:46.400 they were also Once they saw me get in my 0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:49.719 car and drive down to Sydney, We're like, oh, thank god, ay. 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:51.440 Got you a bad bitch. 0:37:55.400 --> 0:38:01.680 So I had to leave this environment that where I 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:05.640 was like really well connected and go back down to Sydney. 0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:10.880 I was incredibly isolated, and I think that it has 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:15.160 made me realize the impact that loneliness has on people, 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:18.919 and it's a real physical thing. You feel like it's 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:23.839 your fault and that you are unlovable, not that you know. 0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:26.319 You live in a city with lots of people who 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:30.280 have incredibly busy lives, and I were already well connected 0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:32.640 and plugged into a community. And it's not that they 0:38:32.719 --> 0:38:34.600 don't like you, it's just that they don't have the 0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:38.880 capacity to think of you. So I'd gone back to 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:42.040 Sydney in May of that year, and then it was 0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:48.279 about July. I had no energy. I wasn't recovering. My 0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:54.120 injuries were really bad. I was feeling really emotional all 0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.680 the time and really sad all the time. There wasn't 0:38:57.719 --> 0:39:01.480 any joy and sometimes I could go. I would speak 0:39:01.520 --> 0:39:05.560 to members of my squad on a Saturday morning and 0:39:05.600 --> 0:39:10.000 then not speak to another single person until I went 0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:14.200 to training on Monday morning. And there are only so 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:19.000 many beaches that you can explore and sunsets that you 0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:22.480 can watch or sunrises that you can photograph that will 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:25.520 try and fill that void. But eventually it kind of 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:29.040 opens up and becomes this chasm that I then just 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:35.239 fell into. So I I had this moment where I 0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:38.080 just had a complete meltdown over something that was so irrational. 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:41.480 I was trying to make a cup of hot chocolate 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:43.759 before I went to bed, and the power kept on 0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:46.719 tripping and so I couldn't heat up the milk, and 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:51.400 then I just I just cried, and not just like 0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:57.480 a little tears, like full sobbing. And I was like, oh, 0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:03.479 this isn't normal. There's something wrong. I think I need 0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:06.719 to go get some help. So then i'd, like, you know, 0:40:06.800 --> 0:40:09.040 I got up early the next morning before training and 0:40:09.280 --> 0:40:15.520 googled frantically around for a psychologist because all I needed 0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:17.920 to do was get some strategies. 0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:19.600 To help me stop crying. Needed a process. 0:40:19.719 --> 0:40:22.640 I just needed a process. And I remember like going 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:25.000 to training the next morning and being like, oh my god, 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:27.640 I have just booked in to see a psychologist. I 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:32.280 can't let anyone here know because that is admitting weakness. 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:36.640 And like I was so in such an emotionally heightened 0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:41.600 place that I had to keep leaving the gym and 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:45.120 going like do breathing exercises in the bathroom to like 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:47.640 try and calm down so that I wouldn't just burst 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:52.080 into tears then, but yeah, it was. It was that 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:57.680 process of like complete meltdown, which I now am able 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:00.319 to pick up a lot earlier, saw a psychology just 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:04.719 for a while, and things got a bit better, and 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:08.919 I felt like I was feeling pretty good. But then 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:13.080 by the time Olympic trials rolled around in June of 0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:19.640 twenty twenty one, I realized that things weren't as good 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:27.200 as I thought that they were. So I, like I said, 0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:32.680 I'm used to competing in high pressure situations. 0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:32.520 And. 0:41:34.120 --> 0:41:37.600 Competition is always Yes, it's nerve racking, but it's kind 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:39.520 of like why I swim, because no one trains to 0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:42.600 train like my goodness, so me training it's so boring, 0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:46.400 Like whoever says that it's not is a freak, because 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:49.600 sometimes it really is, like you're staring at the black 0:41:49.600 --> 0:41:52.440 line for a really long time. You can't talk to people. 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:57.600 It's really hard work. I am only discovering this because 0:41:57.640 --> 0:41:59.080 I'm on a bit of a break now, and I 0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:01.399 realized that it's not normal to wake up with your 0:42:01.400 --> 0:42:05.960 whole body hurting and headache. That it's completely normal to 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:08.239 be able to feel like you can manage the day 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:11.359 without having to like go and lie down for half 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.840 an hour finally enough. Training for an Olympic Games is 0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:17.440 really hard work. Who would have thought, So you kind 0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:19.760 of put yourself through that so that you can compete 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:21.920 and so that you can stand up and see what 0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:24.759 you can do. And I had been working with a 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:27.480 psychologist after I moved I moved back to Brisbane at 0:42:27.520 --> 0:42:30.760 the beginning of twenty twenty one because my coach moved 0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:33.440 moved back to Brisbane. So we'd been training in Brisbane. 0:42:33.719 --> 0:42:35.880 So I'd found a new psychologist and I was working 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:39.280 with her. I was working with a sport mindset coach. 0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:43.080 I attended like meditation seminars, all of these things, all 0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:45.360 of the right things, you know, did all the things 0:42:45.400 --> 0:42:48.080 I did, all the things I had equipped myself so well. 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:57.400 And the closer we got to Olympic trials, the more 0:42:57.600 --> 0:43:01.759 there was just like this impending sense of doom. So 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:06.440 I'm from Queensland, and the way that I describe it, 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:10.120 it was like before a big storm, you know, when 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:12.880 you can feel that pressure and there's like this mugginess 0:43:12.920 --> 0:43:17.560 and this stickiness, and you can feel like something's gonna 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:21.400 happen and it's looming and it's coming, and the closer 0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:26.279 I got to the trials sort of, the more intense 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:33.640 that that pressured state became. And nothing I did helped, right, Like, 0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:36.319 none of my mind all the mindfulness training, all the 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:39.560 mindset stuff that I was going through, none of it 0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:44.880 helped this this feeling that this overwhelming sense of dread 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:46.600 that there was this thing looming. 0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:48.880 It felt physical, It felt physical. 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:54.240 Yeah, you know, I couldn't couldn't breathe properly. I started 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:58.520 to get really emotional again, and I just remember, you know, 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:02.000 calling my partner, and my friends are just being like 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:04.360 if I don't make it, like will you still love me? 0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:08.359 Like I'm so afraid. I I just need to get 0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:11.080 through this if it all goes bad, like will you 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:13.640 still be okay? Like We're still gonna be okay, And 0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:16.840 they're all like yes, Kate, of course, of course. Anyway, 0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:21.880 I managed to get through Olympic Trials and I qualified 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:26.560 for the one hundred freestyle and the fifty freestyle. But 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:30.080 after the race, there was no sense of joy. There 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:32.839 wasn't even a sense of relief. There was just like, 0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:37.200 oh my god, I have to do this again in 0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:39.440 five weeks time, I have to do this again. And 0:44:39.480 --> 0:44:44.239 I have to feel like this again. And I was 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:48.440 kind of like laughing to disguise how awful I was feeling. 0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:50.880 To people. They were like, oh, congratulations, Kate, and I 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:52.840 was like, ha ha ha, I'm never doing this again. 0:44:53.120 --> 0:44:54.839 And in my head I was like, this is it. 0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:57.000 I'm making it through this Olympics and then I'm retiring 0:44:57.040 --> 0:45:00.640 and then I'm out. I'm done. Nothing is worth like this. 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:06.239 Two days after after that, I was lying awake at 0:45:06.360 --> 0:45:09.279 night just contemplating that the next five weeks of my life, 0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:12.120 and I was just like, hang on, this isn't normal, right, 0:45:12.280 --> 0:45:15.920 This isn't you. You love racing and you love competing, 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:19.480 and yeah, you've always been a nervous racer. I always 0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:22.040 get very nervous, but that's completely normal. But this is 0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:26.480 something different. I think that you might need some help. 0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:30.239 You've done everything right. It was at eleven o'clock when 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:33.520 I clicked on my phone and I was like, all right, 0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:37.200 I need a book in and see my GP. And 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:39.640 I went in and I was like, I need some help. 0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:44.760 And this was four weeks before the Olympic Games. 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:50.719 How did you feel when you said those words, I 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:51.840 need some help? 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.920 I at this point, I was kind of numb, but 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:57.560 because I was just like, well, I'm feeling so bad, 0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:00.680 asking for help or asking to go I meet it 0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:04.080 can't hurt, you know. I was very clear that I'm 0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:08.360 a bit of a control freak. Surprise, surprise, and I 0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:11.600 didn't I didn't want to lose myself. I wanted to 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:14.440 find myself again because I was so lost. You know. 0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:16.800 My GP was so wonderful and she was like, Yep, 0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:20.160 we definitely have things that we can help you with. 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:24.000 You have extreme high, extremely high levels of anxiety and 0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:27.400 probably low levels of depression. The drugs take two to 0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:31.120 three weeks to kick in, and I can say that 0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:34.640 about sort of a week and a half, two weeks 0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:38.680 out from when I was you to start racing, I 0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:43.280 gradually began to notice that I was feeling a lot better. 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:48.800 And I now look back and I look at the 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:54.880 months that I spent, you know, working with the psychologists 0:46:54.880 --> 0:47:00.239 and the mindset coach and the meditation and all of that, 0:47:00.320 --> 0:47:02.520 and I think that all of that is useful, and 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:06.000 I'm really glad that I have those tools. But if 0:47:06.040 --> 0:47:09.280 I had, if there had been a normal conversation about 0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:14.920 seeking medical help around anxiety and depression, I would have 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:18.520 gotten help a lot earlier, and I probably would have 0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.680 been able to have been in a much better mental 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:24.080 state for a lot longer and physical state. I've noticed 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:27.960 it since I've allowed my central nervous system to have 0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.240 a bit of a break from that fight or flight state, 0:47:30.760 --> 0:47:33.200 that my injuries have been a lot better as well. 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:38.560 The super acute random flare ups that I was getting 0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:43.839 routinely in the lead into the Olympics have calmed down 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:47.360 a lot, not completely, but a lot. So I was 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:54.359 just like, well, if I didn't know how beneficial and 0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:56.960 how common it is, you know, once I started, I 0:47:57.000 --> 0:47:59.759 spoke to a few really close friends and they were like, oh, yeah, 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:03.799 I'm on that, or I've taken that before, or yeah, 0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:06.239 at a really stressful point in my life I did that. 0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:09.759 I was like, why didn't you tell me? If I'd 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:14.759 known that, I might have done something earlier. So if 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:18.600 me sharing it and normalizing it means someone who is 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.640 feeling really horrible is doing all the right things and 0:48:21.760 --> 0:48:25.120 is unsure of, you know, what the future looks like 0:48:25.280 --> 0:48:28.080 or what else they can do if it makes them go, oh, actually, 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:31.680 maybe I should go and speak to my GP, and 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:34.080 maybe that'll be really helpful for me. Then I think 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:35.280 that that's a really good thing. 0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:40.000 As an athlete. Were you a bit nervous or terrified 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:43.640 or going on a medicaid? You know, because everything that 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:48.560 you put into your body is is amplified or focused on. 0:48:48.640 --> 0:48:51.520 I guess was that a cause of concern? Oh? 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:54.359 Yeah, it was a massive cause of concern. And like 0:48:54.400 --> 0:48:57.000 I said that, there are side effects with every medication, 0:48:57.520 --> 0:48:59.920 but at that point, I was just like, it's wor 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:04.000 taking the risk. I don't want to be feeling this 0:49:04.160 --> 0:49:07.000 awful when I'm supposed to be competing at an Olympic Games. 0:49:07.600 --> 0:49:09.920 I've already felt awful in the wake of an Olympic 0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:12.400 Games before. I don't want to go into one feeling 0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:12.839 this bad. 0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:17.000 It's a brave call and a clearly a brilliant call. 0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:21.040 It's a desperate call, right, Okay, I wouldn't. I wouldn't 0:49:21.040 --> 0:49:24.200 say that it is brave because it was desperation that 0:49:24.320 --> 0:49:25.240 drove me to that point. 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:30.520 Do you feel differently about medication now and even the 0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:33.560 word medication? Do you feel differently about it now to 0:49:33.680 --> 0:49:35.680 what you did what twelve months ago? 0:49:36.200 --> 0:49:40.960 I rationally feel very different about it because it's allowed 0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:46.520 me to find myself again. I am able to cope 0:49:46.560 --> 0:49:51.680 with situations and find joy and meaning and connection and 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:57.200 being able to completely relax into who I actually am 0:49:57.239 --> 0:50:01.080 instead of constantly having to fight to find that person 0:50:01.200 --> 0:50:04.840 through the haze of anxiety and depression. Like I said, 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:07.120 I still struggle every time I go and have to 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:11.200 fill my script in at the pharmacy because there is 0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:16.399 such a stigma around it. But it's really interesting because medication, right, 0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:19.680 everyone takes a lot of medication without even thinking about it. 0:50:20.160 --> 0:50:24.040 I couldn't tell you how many anti inflammatory pills I've 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:27.560 taken in my life and I haven't even thought about it. 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:32.359 And I've been on like prescription anti inflammatory medication. I've 0:50:32.400 --> 0:50:37.160 never even blinked. And yet somehow with a medication that 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:42.360 affects your mental state, there's no sense of what you 0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.960 have an injury and this is to help the inflammation 0:50:46.080 --> 0:50:48.360 around that, to help it bring you back down to 0:50:48.400 --> 0:50:50.640 a normal level. It's like no, no, no, you're weak. 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:53.160 You should be able to figure this out. You need 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:56.719 to breathe or do mindfulness or speak to a psychologist 0:50:56.719 --> 0:50:59.600 and sort out your issues, as opposed to like, actually, 0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:03.279 hang on, here's a point of inflammation. There's an injury here, 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:08.040 whether it's either from a really acute event or repetitive strain. 0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:11.120 And I think that mine was a repetitive strain injury 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:15.839 to my brain. But there's not a discussion of like, 0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:19.160 hang on, there's this point of injury here, let's get 0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:22.080 it back down so it's under control and so that 0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:24.239 you can begin to function the gain. I don't know. 0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:26.480 Maybe that's the way I rationalize it to myself. 0:51:26.680 --> 0:51:28.160 I think it's a great way of looking at it, 0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:29.880 because it's not like you ever stand in the mirror 0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:31.840 and look at your hamstrings or your calves and go 0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:32.840 why you're so weak? 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:33.799 No? 0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:37.399 No, And often you get to that point because you've 0:51:37.440 --> 0:51:42.759 pushed so hard, right, and you know, for better or 0:51:42.840 --> 0:51:46.839 for worse, you've pushed past the levels that your body 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:50.160 can cope with, which takes a lot of strength to 0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:53.400 do that, right, to push yourself to a point of injury, 0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:55.920 it's not something that anyone wants. But if you get 0:51:55.920 --> 0:51:58.160 a physical injury, it's like, oh, well, you must have 0:51:58.160 --> 0:52:01.879 pushed too hard. But if you are suffering with mental 0:52:01.920 --> 0:52:04.200 ill health, it's, oh, well, you're a bit weak for 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:04.920 feeling like this. 0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:07.319 What kind of stuff? And you don't have to share. 0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:09.960 What kind of stuff are you talking about with your psychologists? 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:13.640 Oh, a bit of everything. And it was when I 0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:16.799 went to that first session, I was very adamant that 0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:19.520 there was absolutely nothing wrong with me. I just needed 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:22.840 some techniques to stop myself crying, right, I need some tools. 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:26.560 I need some tools because I'm a completely normal, rational 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:31.000 person and I am crying irrationally, so therefore, just give 0:52:31.000 --> 0:52:34.200 me some tools to calm this down. And I went 0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:35.560 in there and I was like, I'm going to be 0:52:35.600 --> 0:52:39.040 so cool and so calm. Just you wait, I'm going 0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:41.560 to be like the best patient that she's ever seen. 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:43.960 You're even competitive with them? 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:52.120 Oh my god, I know, I'm honestly insufferable. She gave 0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:54.879 me like this survey to fill out, and I was like, yeap, 0:52:55.040 --> 0:52:58.680 I really nailed that. She definitely doesn't think I am 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:01.759 a complete nut job, because only nut jobs come and 0:53:01.800 --> 0:53:04.480 see psychologists. And she looked at it and she was like, 0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:08.320 so I'm seeing extreme levels of anxiety and high levels 0:53:08.320 --> 0:53:13.200 of depression. And I was just like I pretty much 0:53:13.239 --> 0:53:16.640 cried for the whole session and then gave myself the 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:20.520 goal of, you know, in the subsequent weeks to make 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:24.960 it through a full session without crying, I think. And 0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:28.640 sometimes I would cry, but I wouldn't cry enough to 0:53:28.680 --> 0:53:32.000 need a tissue. So it was like a little half win. 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:39.520 Oh you are brilliant. 0:53:40.120 --> 0:53:44.640 But and the way that I thought of her was 0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:48.760 like a physio for my brain. Physios they feel around 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:50.640 and then they find a sore spot and they push 0:53:50.640 --> 0:53:52.400 on it. And I felt like that's what she was 0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:56.279 doing to my brain. Any little you know, feelings of 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:02.040 whether it was loneliness or not feeling worthy or struggling 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:04.839 or whatever it was. She should find that and then 0:54:04.840 --> 0:54:06.120 should push and it should. 0:54:05.840 --> 0:54:06.200 Be like this. 0:54:07.920 --> 0:54:10.239 One hurts right, yeah, yeah, like why why do you 0:54:10.280 --> 0:54:13.040 feel like this? And so yeah, a lot of things 0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:16.560 and then you know, a lot of techniques. She did 0:54:16.680 --> 0:54:19.000 help me with some techniques, and I was very clear. 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:20.720 I was like, I want to know why my brain 0:54:20.920 --> 0:54:22.680 is doing this, and I want to know what I 0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:25.359 can do when I'm in this state to get out 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:27.120 of it. And so she gave me, you know, a 0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:32.040 whole heap of techniques and I was able to employ 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:35.200 them when I was starting to feel really overwhelmed. I 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:38.640 also wanted the physical description of what my brain was 0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:40.880 going through because then I felt like it wasn't my 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:42.040 fault so much. 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:47.240 That's interesting as well. I find with mental health it's 0:54:47.320 --> 0:54:51.360 one thing the things that you start to tell yourself, 0:54:51.360 --> 0:54:54.279 the shame stories that you start to tell yourself. But 0:54:55.040 --> 0:54:57.560 when things tip over is when you start to believe 0:54:58.280 --> 0:54:59.000 those things. 0:54:59.680 --> 0:55:02.200 Is the what you were experiencing. 0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:06.680 M and you know other things that we spoke about, 0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:08.880 which she was like, we don't have to believe all 0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:11.360 our thoughts, and I was like, you know, I'm having 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:14.040 all these thoughts and I was stuck in like this 0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:18.319 thought voor takes of like your week, you're worthless, your 0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:22.200 your life is good. You don't deserve to be feeling 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:26.080 this bad. Get a grip. You should be stronger, you 0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:28.680 should be better, you should be able to get over this, 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:31.440 you know, or all of those that you are, or 0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:34.719 then you should the two really bad things to get it. 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:36.480 And she was like, well, actually, you don't have to 0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:40.040 believe the things that you think. People think all kinds 0:55:40.080 --> 0:55:43.279 of things and that's not actually true. I don't know 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:45.319 about you, but whenever I walk over a bridge, I 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:47.560 think I'm gonna throw my phone off the bridge. I 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:51.799 never do, but before whatever reason, my brain feeds me 0:55:51.920 --> 0:55:55.719 that thought every time I walk over a bridge, and 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:59.560 so if I can easily discredit that thought, I need 0:55:59.600 --> 0:56:04.040 to be able to differentiate and discredit thoughts when they're 0:56:04.040 --> 0:56:05.520 not rational or they're not serving me. 0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.920 Well, what have the struggles taught you? And are you 0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:12.160 more of a compassionate person, not just to other people 0:56:12.200 --> 0:56:13.759 but also to yourself? 0:56:14.560 --> 0:56:20.239 Oh, I have so so much more empathy and understanding 0:56:20.800 --> 0:56:26.080 for people who are experiencing times of distress. The thing 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:28.239 that I struggled with the most was that, like, I 0:56:28.280 --> 0:56:33.000 have a very good life, right, I get to live 0:56:33.040 --> 0:56:38.120 out my childhood dream. I do have good friends, Like 0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:40.160 they weren't in Sydney, but I do have good friends. 0:56:40.760 --> 0:56:45.760 I have a good family. I make a really steady income, 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:47.920 Like I don't have to stress about money, I don't 0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:51.000 have to stress about food. So I kind of thought 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:54.040 that the only time that you can feel bad is 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:57.920 when the external things in your life are really bad. 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:02.440 And so it's given me a much greater compassion for 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:07.040 people who maybe their lives look really perfect on the outside, 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:10.439 but on the inside, who knows what's going on? Right, 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:16.680 And more than anything else, I have complete compassion and 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:21.640 sympathy for people who are going somewhere new or doing 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:24.960 something new and don't have a support system. Because that 0:57:25.040 --> 0:57:29.280 loneliness and isolation was the main driving force I think 0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:31.800 it was. It was the thing that that tipped me over. 0:57:32.120 --> 0:57:35.680 One of the things that I've learned over this process 0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:39.200 is that, you know, I would berate myself for things 0:57:39.600 --> 0:57:42.600 with the benefit of hindsight. So I'd look at a 0:57:42.640 --> 0:57:45.000 situation in the past, but I'd bring the knowledge that 0:57:45.040 --> 0:57:47.720 I have today and apply that to the situation in 0:57:47.760 --> 0:57:51.120 the past, and I'd say, like, I should have I 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:53.120 should have known back then that I needed to embed 0:57:53.240 --> 0:57:56.440 myself and find some friends and like, you know, really 0:57:57.080 --> 0:57:58.320 try and do all these things, and I should have 0:57:58.360 --> 0:58:00.400 done this, and I should have done that. And it's like, well, 0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.320 hang on, at the time, you were just doing the 0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:05.200 best that you could with the knowledge that you had 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:06.040 at your disposal. 0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:10.080 So taking all of this into consideration, you know, the 0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:14.080 days of crying, the moments, the conversations, the bravery, the 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:18.680 desperation to go on medication. You touch the wall, you 0:58:18.760 --> 0:58:22.840 look up, you win bronze, and your tears afterwards were 0:58:22.880 --> 0:58:26.520 just beautiful. One of my favorite moments of the Olympics, 0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:31.240 tell me what's going through your mind in that moment 0:58:31.400 --> 0:58:33.720 when you know the rest of the world at this 0:58:33.800 --> 0:58:36.560 point didn't know, but you know what you've been through. 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:45.480 Yeah, it was. It was really strange but really lovely 0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:50.680 that that morning before the final, Like, yes, I was nervous, 0:58:51.280 --> 0:58:53.320 I one hundred percent was, but it was almost like 0:58:53.400 --> 0:58:57.200 I was just accepting of whatever there was to come, 0:58:57.920 --> 0:59:02.000 which was a very different sty eight compared to where 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:04.000 I was at in Rio, where I was just terrified 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:06.560 and the only outcome that I could possibly see or 0:59:06.560 --> 0:59:10.120 possibly cope with would be a gold medal. Yeah, I 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:14.200 was nervous, but there was this really beautiful sense of 0:59:14.320 --> 0:59:18.400 calm as well, which was so lovely because considering like 0:59:18.600 --> 0:59:22.800 five weeks earlier, when I was just hot mess, I 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:24.720 was really scared that I would get to get into 0:59:24.760 --> 0:59:27.720 the Olympics and feeling like that, and I wasn't you know, 0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:30.600 I was myself again, because I'm usually someone who's pretty 0:59:30.640 --> 0:59:34.040 in control, and I was. I was calm, and I 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:38.440 was like, oh, this feels good going into these Olympics. 0:59:38.480 --> 0:59:43.080 My goal was best execution. Can I execute the race 0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:46.040 to the best of my ability in whatever physical or 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:49.400 mental state that I have on the day, can I 0:59:49.440 --> 0:59:52.640 swim a race that is the best representation of that? 0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:55.480 And that's ultimately all you can ask of yourself, right 0:59:55.880 --> 0:59:58.960 because at some time, invariably, someone is going to be 0:59:58.960 --> 1:00:00.480 better than you, and they're going to do a better 1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:03.720 job than you. And if you believe that the only 1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:05.360 way that you've done a good job is if you 1:00:05.360 --> 1:00:07.480 want a gold medal, at some point you're going to 1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:09.960 just be so bitterly disappointed. And I had been in 1:00:10.040 --> 1:00:12.560 that point before. I was just I was really clear 1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:15.240 on exactly what I needed to do in that race, 1:00:15.520 --> 1:00:19.280 and standing behind the blocks, I was really deliberate in 1:00:19.320 --> 1:00:23.200 my thought processes, and you know, remained in the moment, 1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:29.400 and then I touched the wall and I knew with 1:00:29.560 --> 1:00:33.479 complete certainty that I had executed that perfect race right, 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:37.560 that I had done everything that I possibly could to 1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:40.160 get the best out of myself. But I also knew 1:00:40.160 --> 1:00:42.880 I had one because I was right next to Emma McKeon, 1:00:43.000 --> 1:00:45.440 who did win, and she was, you know, a good 1:00:46.120 --> 1:00:48.680 arm's length in front of me. So I had this 1:00:48.680 --> 1:00:55.120 this moment where I had peace before I turned around 1:00:55.160 --> 1:00:57.640 and looked at the scoreboard, and then once I saw 1:00:57.640 --> 1:00:59.800 I want a bronze medal and that at all like 1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:03.480 came out and I was just yeah, and I'd won 1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:05.680 a bronze medal by six one hundreds of a second 1:01:05.800 --> 1:01:07.880 because I was six one hundreds of a second in 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.360 front of the person who got fourth. That's the blink 1:01:10.360 --> 1:01:13.920 of a human eye. If I had allowed myself to 1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:20.040 be derailed for even a fraction of a second before 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:23.320 or during the race, I wouldn't have ended up on 1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:26.960 the podium. So yeah, and then I was just so happy, 1:01:27.520 --> 1:01:30.640 and I honestly, I honestly felt like i'd want gold, 1:01:30.840 --> 1:01:32.680 like and I know that I did it, but I. 1:01:32.600 --> 1:01:34.440 Just I really felt like I didn't. 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:37.760 And then it was beautiful because Emma of caused one 1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:39.680 gold and so we got to see the national anthem 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:43.120 on the podium together and I was like, ah, the 1:01:43.120 --> 1:01:45.880 thing I just cried for for the whole rest of 1:01:45.360 --> 1:01:51.000 the session. I look back, I'm like, oh my god, 1:01:51.040 --> 1:01:52.960 I'm so embarrassed by it, but at the same time, 1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:56.200 I'm just fully embraced it and led it. I couldn't 1:01:56.240 --> 1:01:56.880 contain it. 1:01:57.920 --> 1:02:01.560 I have full body goosebump when you talk about that. 1:02:01.280 --> 1:02:05.920 That must have just been such a fulfilling, tremendous feeling. 1:02:06.080 --> 1:02:09.280 After putting yourself through such torment for so long. 1:02:10.280 --> 1:02:13.080 Yeah, and I think that, you know, so many people 1:02:13.240 --> 1:02:16.080 were like, oh, you know, do you need to atone 1:02:16.560 --> 1:02:20.440 for real? Like the narrative was around this redemption story, 1:02:21.080 --> 1:02:23.880 and to be honest, I was just like, it's not 1:02:23.920 --> 1:02:27.160 a redemption story. I'm just lugging to be here and 1:02:27.200 --> 1:02:30.800 no one knows that. So I've done a lot just 1:02:30.800 --> 1:02:33.600 to get here. Forget the redemption. It's just about getting here. 1:02:33.760 --> 1:02:35.480 It's been that much of a struggle. 1:02:35.600 --> 1:02:36.640 Tell me about Iron Woman. 1:02:38.080 --> 1:02:43.280 Oh, I pick a song before each competition and that 1:02:43.400 --> 1:02:45.800 just kind of gets put on repeat, and it has 1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:48.160 to be catchy, so it like sticks in your brain 1:02:48.280 --> 1:02:52.800 so that when you start to I tend to catastrophize 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:57.880 a lot. And there was just something about those lyrics 1:02:58.000 --> 1:03:02.920 that I just just resonated with me so strongly. You 1:03:02.960 --> 1:03:05.560 are the person you are because of the experiences that 1:03:05.640 --> 1:03:08.360 you had, and like, yes, that you know you've been down, 1:03:08.480 --> 1:03:12.720 but that's what's made you stronger and all of these things. 1:03:12.760 --> 1:03:15.000 I think what resonated with me about that song was 1:03:15.000 --> 1:03:17.919 that it didn't shy away from the fact that things 1:03:17.920 --> 1:03:21.840 were really hard. But it's in the tough times that 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:24.600 you get your strength, and I was like, I've had 1:03:24.600 --> 1:03:27.120 some tough types, so I'm really strong. 1:03:28.440 --> 1:03:31.160 I've got a second ear ring in my left. Look 1:03:31.240 --> 1:03:38.760 how badass I am. It's a pretty cool anthem. 1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:43.520 Though, like, ah yeah, it was my mindset coach who 1:03:43.640 --> 1:03:46.520 kind of suggested it. She was like, for me, when 1:03:46.560 --> 1:03:48.000 I think of you, I just think of I a woman. 1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:50.320 And I was like, yes, that is the song that 1:03:50.480 --> 1:03:52.640 is going to be it mew. 1:03:54.600 --> 1:03:57.160 With all that said and done, what would you tell 1:03:57.200 --> 1:04:00.720 the sixteen year old that was first going to to 1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:02.960 an Olympics, the little girl that's going to be a 1:04:03.000 --> 1:04:06.600 golden girl and the pressure on her shoulders and you've 1:04:06.600 --> 1:04:09.920 got a massive smile when you're almost visualizing that little 1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:10.920 sixteen year old. 1:04:11.240 --> 1:04:18.200 Oh, she was so earnest. She was so earnest, and 1:04:18.360 --> 1:04:22.840 she thought she knew so much. She actually didn't know anything. 1:04:24.760 --> 1:04:31.560 I think this whole experience has made me see the 1:04:32.160 --> 1:04:36.040 value of people and human connections and relationships so much 1:04:36.040 --> 1:04:40.640 more than I think I had previously. So I would 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:47.800 say that invest in people because they are going to 1:04:47.880 --> 1:04:51.240 be what get you through life. It's not going to 1:04:51.320 --> 1:04:54.560 be the highs or the accolades or the metal sitting 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:59.400 in socks down there. It's interesting because part of me says, oh, 1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:01.720 you know, try and have a bit more balanced life. 1:05:01.960 --> 1:05:05.520 But when you're trying to achieve something really great, balance 1:05:05.560 --> 1:05:07.440 gods out of whack. And that's just the way it is. 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:10.520 But I would say that in investing a bit more 1:05:10.520 --> 1:05:13.760 time and effort and energy into the people around you, 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:16.080 and I was just lucky that I had some really 1:05:16.120 --> 1:05:20.000 great people who allowed themselves to be completely neglected by 1:05:20.080 --> 1:05:25.480 me and was still there. But it makes me very 1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:28.920 grateful that I had them. If I have one regret 1:05:29.040 --> 1:05:31.240 out of it all, it was that I allowed myself 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:35.240 to be so consumed by my ambition that I forgot 1:05:35.520 --> 1:05:37.520 how important those people were to me. 1:05:38.440 --> 1:05:41.360 And to be kind to yourself and to be kind 1:05:41.360 --> 1:05:41.960 to yourself. 1:05:42.080 --> 1:05:46.200 Yeah, but I think that one of the beauties is 1:05:46.240 --> 1:05:49.960 when you invest in other people when you can't be 1:05:50.040 --> 1:05:52.680 kind to yourself, they can help you be kind to yourself. 1:05:52.920 --> 1:05:54.760 But when you're kind to other people, you're more likely 1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:57.000 to be kind to yourself, And when you're kind yourself, 1:05:57.000 --> 1:05:58.600 you're more like to be kind to other people. Like 1:05:58.600 --> 1:06:01.200 a kind of it's all circuit so profound. 1:06:02.200 --> 1:06:05.120 It's funny because I've said, you know, in the last 1:06:05.160 --> 1:06:07.760 couple of years that if you can't find the capacity 1:06:07.760 --> 1:06:10.280 to be kind to yourself, do something nice for somebody else, 1:06:10.400 --> 1:06:13.440 Because you're right, it does help. If nothing else, it 1:06:13.480 --> 1:06:16.560 gets you out of your own head. And the other 1:06:16.600 --> 1:06:20.560 thing is I think now the good people life experiences. 1:06:20.880 --> 1:06:23.560 If you can tick those two things off, the rest 1:06:23.560 --> 1:06:25.040 of it doesn't seem to matter so much. 1:06:25.360 --> 1:06:28.760 Yeah, and I think that the past eighteen months have 1:06:28.840 --> 1:06:34.920 really shone a light on how warped our aspirations have become. 1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:40.200 I'm no longer impressed by fancy things or chines, trinkets. 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:43.240 The people who I look to and respect to those 1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:45.800 who make meaningful connections with other people. 1:06:46.160 --> 1:06:47.040 Thank you so much. 1:06:47.120 --> 1:06:50.200 I mean, you have achieved so much, but this has 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:53.320 just been a real joy, getting a greater insight into 1:06:53.480 --> 1:06:56.440 the mentality and the resilience and what you've overcome. 1:06:57.080 --> 1:06:58.600 And you have a lot of things that you say 1:06:58.640 --> 1:06:59.040 that I'm. 1:06:58.920 --> 1:07:03.800 Like, yeah, So I really appreciate your time and congratulations 1:07:03.880 --> 1:07:06.880 because it was an epic campaign, a couple of gold 1:07:06.880 --> 1:07:09.080 and a bronze that I think the whole country was 1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:12.720 super proud of you, So well done. I really appreciate 1:07:12.760 --> 1:07:20.880 your time today, that's bad time. Thanks for listening to 1:07:20.920 --> 1:07:24.320 this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If this chat was triggering 1:07:24.360 --> 1:07:27.120 for you, please know there is help out there beyond 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:30.280 blue dot Org, dot au or Lifeline are just a 1:07:30.320 --> 1:07:32.800 couple of places you can go if you want to 1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:36.640 get in touch with the podcast at Ordinarily Underscore Speaking 1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:41.720 on Instagram or at Narrowly Underscore Meadows on Twitter. A 1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:43.720 new episode will drop next week. 1:07:45.720 --> 1:08:01.160 Jesus or a meg. 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:09.160 Because I'm comp between the fire and with send me 1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:20.080 that you want a mego