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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers me now.

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Speaker 2: Because parents, we've got this wonderful hindsight of experience that

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Speaker 2: tells us this road could not will but this road

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Speaker 2: could be dangerous.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Gooday. This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of a

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Speaker 3: bunch of books about making families happy. Here with Kylie,

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Speaker 3: my wife, mum to our six daughters and the expert

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Speaker 3: in making families happy. Is that right? Do you like that?

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Speaker 3: You're so funny? And we have got a doozy of

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Speaker 3: a question today. Every Tuesday we take listener questions email

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Speaker 3: us podcasts at happy families dot com dot au. I'm

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Speaker 3: surprised that we haven't been getting more lockdown questions because

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Speaker 3: with half the country and lockdown again or thereabouts New

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Speaker 3: South Wales obviously the whole state, we've got Victoria not

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Speaker 3: looking good and I'm expecting the lockdown questions are coming,

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Speaker 3: but we don't have any at the moment. So this

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Speaker 3: one from somebody who we're going to keep anonymous. She

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Speaker 3: was okay with us using her name, but I think

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Speaker 3: given the nature of the question, we should keep it anonymous.

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Speaker 3: This is a real tricky one and before we read

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Speaker 3: the question, we need to acknowledge we have had direct

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Speaker 3: experience with this, and it's heartbreaking and challenging, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's possibly, Kylie, one of the most difficult experiences

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Speaker 3: that we've ever had in our entire life.

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Speaker 2: This really really stretched us as individuals, as a couple,

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Speaker 2: and as parents and.

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Speaker 3: As a family. I mean, it's the repercussions continue in

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Speaker 3: our home. Fortunately we've managed to learn a lot through

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Speaker 3: it and learned to love through it. But it's tough

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Speaker 3: for any parent to go through. So why don't you

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Speaker 3: read the question, Kylie, and then we'll talk about what

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Speaker 3: some solutions may be to help families who are going

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Speaker 3: through this particular challenge.

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Speaker 2: She said, how do I respect and accept my eighteen

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Speaker 2: year old for who she wants to be while she

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Speaker 2: is growing and experimenting Whilst it differs to the values

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Speaker 2: and the morals that we have in our home. My

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Speaker 2: eldest feels upset that we are not respecting her choices,

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Speaker 2: but we are just trying to allow the other two children,

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Speaker 2: especially the three year old, to grow up in an

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Speaker 2: age appropriate manner without the influences that we don't agree with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what a tough one. So, having been profoundly affected

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Speaker 3: by this ourselves, we've got some runs on the board

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Speaker 3: and we've got a bit of science supporting the things

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Speaker 3: that we think we can share to help this challenged parent.

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Speaker 3: And this is kind of the thing, right As parents,

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Speaker 3: our job is to make ourselves redundant. But at the

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Speaker 3: same time, we try so hard to transmit our values

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Speaker 3: because we want our children to make safe, healthy, wise decisions.

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Speaker 3: And it just so happens that the morality, the values

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Speaker 3: that we choose to live our lives by, we tend

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Speaker 3: to think good ones, right, I mean, if we like

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Speaker 3: the way we live. And this is the same in

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Speaker 3: every single family. When we see a child making decisions

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Speaker 3: that are not consistent with our values, it's confronting, it's provoking,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes it's stressful and frustrating.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think for the most part, as we watch

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Speaker 2: our children start to make decisions, there's so many fears

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Speaker 2: around the choices that they're making because they don't have

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Speaker 2: the maturity, they don't have the experience to know where

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Speaker 2: this road will lead them. And as parents, we've got

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Speaker 2: this wonderful hindsight of experience that tells us this road

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Speaker 2: could not will but this road could be dangerous, or

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Speaker 2: this road could lead to heartbreak, or this road could

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Speaker 2: lead to any number of things.

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Speaker 3: So the conversation that I always have with our kids is,

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Speaker 3: you know what life is so exciting for you? Right now?

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Speaker 3: You've climbed eighteen rungs up the ladder of life, and

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Speaker 3: the view is incredible. You can see more than you've

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Speaker 3: ever been able to see before. The vistas are stunning,

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Speaker 3: and you just want to go and explore that world. Hey,

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Speaker 3: guess what, kiddo, your dad or your mum, we've climbed

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Speaker 3: forty something or fifty something rungs on that ladder of life.

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Speaker 3: And while we can't see the detail, we're a long

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Speaker 3: way from the ground. Now we can see around corners,

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Speaker 3: we can see through the shadows, we can see past

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Speaker 3: the trees and the forests. We know what's coming and

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Speaker 3: we want to keep it safe. But they're kind of like, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: you're too far away. Now, you're so far up there

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Speaker 3: you can't see what's on the ground well, and you've

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Speaker 3: forgot it and you've forgotten what it's like to be me. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you need the binoculars, and nobody passed them to you.

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Speaker 3: Up that high, you just can't see what's going on.

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Speaker 3: So it's a really tough thing. And I reckon the

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Speaker 3: first thing to highlight I've spoken to so many parents

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Speaker 3: who have been through this is there is a legitimate

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Speaker 3: grieving process that we go through as parents when now

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Speaker 3: children get to that age where they are absolutely unequivocally saying,

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Speaker 3: it's my life, I'm going to do it my way,

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Speaker 3: and when it's not consistent with what you hoped it

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Speaker 3: would be, you grieve as a parent. You literally you

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Speaker 3: have to say goodbye to the hopes and dreams. And

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of people are going to be

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Speaker 3: listening to this and going, oh, but we're so enlightened,

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Speaker 3: and you should just be letting your children live their life,

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Speaker 3: and it is their life, and that's a parent's job

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Speaker 3: is to let go. But after investing for eighteen years,

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Speaker 3: particularly when there are some values that you might hold,

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Speaker 3: particularly the particularly close, to see children turn around and

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Speaker 3: drop them and maybe even be aggressive about them, or

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Speaker 3: just to flaunt an alternative lifestyle in your face that

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Speaker 3: you never saw coming. The only word that I can

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Speaker 3: use is grief, and.

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Speaker 2: I think for most parents, again, when you find yourself

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Speaker 2: in this situation, often not all the time, but often

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Speaker 2: it feels like you've been blindsided. Because most kids, unless

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Speaker 2: they're being particularly rebellious in the lead up, will kind

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Speaker 2: of stay their ground long enough to reach adulthood before

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Speaker 2: they open up the floodgates and kind of find their voice,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, and being able to share the things

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Speaker 2: that they want to do. And they get to that

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Speaker 2: point and they just want to be who they want

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Speaker 2: to be and they don't want any in flats from you.

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Speaker 2: They don't want you to have a say, and they

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Speaker 2: can't understand why you're not happy.

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Speaker 3: So it's really interesting because I know plenty of parents

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Speaker 3: whose kids grow up and they just continued the same

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Speaker 3: sort of way of life that their parents had. And

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Speaker 3: that might be that they joined dad down at the pub,

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Speaker 3: or it might mean that they stay active in the

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Speaker 3: same faith, or they join at the local Nippers surf

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Speaker 3: club and continue to volunteer. A lot of kids will

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Speaker 3: just sort of go the same path. But there are

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Speaker 3: some times that there are values that we hold deer

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Speaker 3: and the kids are just like, no, I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to do it not going there, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: kind of where this is coming from. So that's the

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Speaker 3: first thing that I wanted to highlight. Second thing that

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Speaker 3: I wanted to highlight. I don't think that we need

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Speaker 3: to be too concerned about what the younger siblings are

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Speaker 3: going to see in their older siblings decisions. I know,

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Speaker 3: so I'm the oldest of six kids, you're the oldest

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Speaker 3: of three. And when I look at our two families,

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Speaker 3: each child has grown up and made completely their own decisions,

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Speaker 3: and you would imagine, looking at the way those lives

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Speaker 3: have gone, that those decisions have been made pretty well

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Speaker 3: independently of what the other siblings have done. And I

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Speaker 3: look at even our own kids now as they grow,

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Speaker 3: they don't actually seem to be I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: say there's zero influence, but the level of influence of

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Speaker 3: the older siblings doesn't strike me as being particularly strong.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know of any research that shows that

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Speaker 3: siblings are really going to be that big of an

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Speaker 3: influence on other siblings, especially older to younger.

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Speaker 2: I think the biggest impact that other siblings will have

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Speaker 2: is when there is contention in the home, regardless of

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Speaker 2: the choices that your child is making if you are

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Speaker 2: constantly in battle with one another, that tension, that conflict,

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Speaker 2: that is going to have the biggest influence.

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Speaker 3: So after the break, we're going to talk about how

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Speaker 3: to minimize the conflict and how to actually work through

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Speaker 3: and explore, explain, empower kind of conversation with an eighteen

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Speaker 3: year old who really does want to live their own life,

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Speaker 3: particularly when it's not consistently your values or the way

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Speaker 3: that you want things to be done in your home.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts

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Speaker 4: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 4: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happy

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Speaker 4: families dot com, dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we

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Speaker 2: are talking about a really tricky issue. You're eighteen year

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Speaker 2: old decides that they want to go their own way.

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Speaker 3: It's my life. Let me live it the way I want,

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Speaker 3: but by the way, I'm going to do it under

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Speaker 3: your roof. And that's the challenge, isn't it right. I

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Speaker 3: often think to myself, if the child would just move

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Speaker 3: out and live their own life somewhere else, so that

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Speaker 3: you've got that distance, it's much a I mean, they're

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Speaker 3: still going to be grief, there's still going to be sadness,

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Speaker 3: there's still going to be concerned, fear, worry, all that

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Speaker 3: sort of stuff. But when your child is not near you,

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Speaker 3: you can kind of deal with a little bit better.

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Speaker 3: But when they're doing it under your roof, it's like, gosh,

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Speaker 3: this is really tough. So this is what I reckon

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Speaker 3: is going to be helpful. And Kylie, you've been there

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Speaker 3: with me. We've worked through it, and who knows, we'll

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Speaker 3: probably get to work through it again with some of

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Speaker 3: our other kids because that's the nature of raising children.

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Speaker 3: The first thing to remember is that force creates resistance.

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Speaker 3: So we've got to get connection right. We've got to

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Speaker 3: stop fighting with the kids, which is kind of impossible

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Speaker 3: because they're having this in your face values challenge on

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Speaker 3: a day to day basis. But it doesn't work. Force

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Speaker 3: creates resistance. What force actually looks like to a child

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Speaker 3: is rejection. If you're trying to force me to do

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Speaker 3: it your way, what you're doing is you're saying that

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Speaker 3: you're rejecting me as a person. You do not I'm

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Speaker 3: not good enough, I'm not worthy, you don't accept me.

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Speaker 3: You said it so beautifully. The idea that we want

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Speaker 3: to minimize the extent which there is contention in our home.

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Speaker 3: That is the central thing, and that all comes down

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Speaker 3: to how much we are correcting and directing versus how

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Speaker 3: much we're connecting. Reality is, when you've got an eighteen

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Speaker 3: year old whos saying leave me alone, it's my life.

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Speaker 3: You can't make me, there's going to be a lot

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Speaker 3: more correction and direction than there is connection. It's that

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Speaker 3: whole force creates resistance. So here's what I would be saying. Firstly,

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Speaker 3: and you want to say this really gently. Now that

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Speaker 3: you're eighteen, I've satisfied my obligations to you as a parent.

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Speaker 3: You're an adult.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: That means that while I will always be here to

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Speaker 3: support you and I absolutely love you, I no longer

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Speaker 3: have an obligation to tell you how to live your

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Speaker 3: life or what to do. And I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: sad about that, and I'm going to grieve because I'm

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Speaker 3: always going to want the best for you, or what

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Speaker 3: I believe is the best. But right now what I

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Speaker 3: believe is the best, you disagree with me on so

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Speaker 3: I have to let go of that. Number Two, because

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Speaker 3: you're now an adult, we don't have a financial responsibility

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Speaker 3: for you anymore. You actually are the person who's responsible

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Speaker 3: for you.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: If you've never had this conversation before, you might want

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Speaker 3: to give them. So we're going to give you a

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Speaker 3: three month grace period. We're going to continue to support

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Speaker 3: you for the next three months, but at that point,

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Speaker 3: you've either got to be earning full time or learning

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Speaker 3: full time and figuring out a way that you can

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Speaker 3: live your life. Number Three, if you wish to live

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Speaker 3: your life in a manner that is not consistent with

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Speaker 3: the values that we hold dear to us in this

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Speaker 3: home and in this family, we accept that we're sad

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Speaker 3: about it, but it won't stop us loving you, and

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Speaker 3: you'll always be welcome here. However, we ask that if

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Speaker 3: you're going to choose to act inconsistently with our values,

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Speaker 3: that you do not do it under our roof, That

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Speaker 3: you do not do it on our property, That you

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Speaker 3: did not do it in view of Mum, Dad, the

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Speaker 3: other siblings, whoever, and I don't think that that's an

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Speaker 3: inappropriate thing to do.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that that's inappropriate either. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you are married to a mechanic, you wouldn't let him

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Speaker 2: bring his car engine in and start pulling it apart.

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Speaker 3: On the cart exact.

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Speaker 2: We all have rules in our home, whether they're spoken

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Speaker 2: or not. Hopefully you don't have to have that comversation

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Speaker 2: with your mechanic husband. But while it is, you don't

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Speaker 2: that there are certain things that just are not appropriate

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Speaker 2: in your home.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so let's pick another reason.

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Speaker 4: One.

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Speaker 3: Let's say you've always taught your kids not to smoke,

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Speaker 3: and now you've got an eighteen year old who's decided

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Speaker 3: to smoke. And I think it's completely reasonable for a

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Speaker 3: parent to say, if that's what you choose to do,

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Speaker 3: we're sad about it, we're disappointed. We don't think that

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Speaker 3: it's healthy, we don't think it's safe, we don't think

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Speaker 3: it's wise, But if you choose to do it. As

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Speaker 3: much as it breaks our heart that you're choosing to

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Speaker 3: do it, because we've always raised you to be healthy

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Speaker 3: and look after your body, your choice, but in our home,

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Speaker 3: we don't smoke. We don't smoke. In this house. We

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Speaker 3: don't smoke in bedrooms, we don't smoke on the balcony,

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Speaker 3: we don't smoke on our property.

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Speaker 2: We don't have other people show up and smoke in

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Speaker 2: our house, right, and.

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Speaker 3: We would do the same thing like you and I.

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Speaker 3: We have a no course language rule, and so we

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Speaker 3: would expect that in our home, regardless of what goes

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Speaker 3: on outside the home, that the kids respect that in

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Speaker 3: our home. So that's kind of the conversation I'd be

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Speaker 3: recommending with the eighteen year other, and then I'd be saying, so,

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Speaker 3: if you're not comfortable with that, over the next couple

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Speaker 3: of months, we will support you as you do your

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Speaker 3: very best to work out whose couch you're going to

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Speaker 3: sleep on or are you going to hang out, or

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Speaker 3: how you are going to move things forward from here,

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Speaker 3: because we're not forcing you to live our life or

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Speaker 3: our values, but we are going to ask that if

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Speaker 3: you want to continue living here, you're financially providing for

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Speaker 3: yourself because you're eighteen, you're earning, or you're learning full time,

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Speaker 3: because we won't be able to support you ongoingly. It's

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Speaker 3: not our job anymore. You're eighteen, and if you're going

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Speaker 3: to stay here, we're going to ask that you are

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Speaker 3: going to live consistently with those values.

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Speaker 2: The other day, we actually touched on those three psychological

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Speaker 2: needs that each of our children need, and we talked

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Speaker 2: about relatedness or connection yep, and how important that is

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Speaker 2: to your relationship. We talked about competence that our kids

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Speaker 2: need to feel that they're capable of making decisions, and

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Speaker 2: then we talked about autonomy. And the reality is we

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Speaker 2: watch as our kids get older, their desire for autonomy

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Speaker 2: gets stronger and stronger.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the central psychological need as they get older.

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Speaker 3: I think it becomes the most important one in parenting.

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Speaker 2: And if we can as they start working their way

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Speaker 2: through those teenage years, if we can actually start to

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Speaker 2: let go in small and simple steps, then letting go

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Speaker 2: as an eighteen year old becomes.

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Speaker 3: A little bit easier.

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Speaker 2: It's still hard, and I think that every parent goes

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Speaker 2: through that grieving period regardless of whether the children are

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Speaker 2: making good decisions or difficult decisions, because it's hard. You've

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Speaker 2: invested eighteen years of your life to them and given

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Speaker 2: them your whole heart through that process, and so I

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Speaker 2: think that regardless of the choices they're making, it's hard.

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Speaker 2: It becomes harder when you're having to let go of

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Speaker 2: goals and dreams and thoughts of the future that you

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Speaker 2: had for them.

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Speaker 3: We really hope that this is useful for those of

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Speaker 3: you with big kids who are going through this kind

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Speaker 3: of thing, or with little kids and you're really scared

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Speaker 3: that you're going to go through this thing. The central

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Speaker 3: thing I reckon it still comes down to connection. Nothing

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Speaker 3: that you can do is going to be so big

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Speaker 3: that I'll stop loving you. You will always always be loved,

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Speaker 3: and you'll always be welcome. But just when you're here,

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Speaker 3: keep to our values, please, because that's how we do

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Speaker 3: it in our home. It's just respect, it's consideration. The

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Speaker 3: Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media,

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Speaker 3: and Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Tomorrow, for those

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Speaker 3: of you who are raising teenagers who are getting ready

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Speaker 3: for their big end of year exams, although everything's been

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Speaker 3: thrown to chaos because of COVID nineteen and lockdowns, we're

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Speaker 3: still going to be talking with Katie Jones. Katie Jones

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Speaker 3: is from Rock Solid Study, and she's going to tell

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Speaker 3: us the three huge mistakes that students make in exams

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Speaker 3: and assignments and give us a whole lot of super

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Speaker 3: practical tips and ways for kids to transform their grades.

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Speaker 3: That's all happening tomorrow on the podcast, and on Thursday,

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Speaker 3: we're looking at the Doctor's Desk, including a conversation at

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Speaker 3: burnout in parents in forty two countries across the globe,

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Speaker 3: Plus a brand new spanking study that tells us exactly

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Speaker 3: what's going on for our kids when we give them

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Speaker 3: a whack. That's all coming up on the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to share it with you in the meantime.

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Speaker 3: If you'd like more ongoing support for your family to

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Speaker 3: make them happier, check out our Happy Families memberships. You

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Speaker 3: can get all the info at happy families dot com

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Speaker 3: dot I U