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Speaker 1: This is a podcast about failure with me. Lola Berry, author, nutritionist,

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Speaker 1: and yoga teacher, join me as we get to know

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Speaker 1: these guests and learn about how their failures have ultimately

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Speaker 1: shaped their dreams.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fearlessly Failing with Lola Berry. Hello, it's Lols here.

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Speaker 1: This guest is Salvatore Maltesta, self described disruptive entrepreneur. If

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Speaker 1: you're a melbourne Ie, you'll know him as the Coffee King.

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Speaker 1: He set up and created Saint Ali, this awesome cafe

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Speaker 1: in South Malbs about fifteen years ago his first year

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Speaker 1: at UNI. He opened a cafe on twenty one years old,

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Speaker 1: and by the time he finished his degree as a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: mind you, he had opened fifteen cafes, so you can

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Speaker 1: imagine he's a bit of a go getter, or a

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Speaker 1: huge go getter. He's been my business mentor for years

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Speaker 1: and business partner in Happy Place, the Smoothie Bar, and

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Speaker 1: for years he's been imparting these.

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Speaker 2: Little pearls of wisdom with me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really pumped to be sharing these gems and

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Speaker 1: little nuggets with you, So enjoy good old sal I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to have this person here, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's because over the years, because we've known each other

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Speaker 1: for YONX, you've kind of been a bit of a

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Speaker 1: mentor to me. So this is the incredible cell of

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Speaker 1: Saint Ali is probably the best way that people would

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Speaker 1: know you. And my boyfriend tells me that your last

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Speaker 1: name means headache, Melan Testa.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: It does, Lola, thanks for having me on your show,

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Speaker 3: and I'm you know, love you very much and love

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Speaker 3: being its non the It's funny because when I went

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Speaker 3: at school, my first name, as you know, Salvatore means savior, yes,

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Speaker 3: and my surname, Melan Testa, means headache. And so the

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Speaker 3: joke around my friends when I was in my teens,

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Speaker 3: they used to call me Panadole, save, save the headaches,

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Speaker 3: save the bad head.

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Speaker 2: So I like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, So for people that don't know you,

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Speaker 1: you're obviously like in the Melbourne coffee scene, you are

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Speaker 1: the king of coffee. But more than that, you are

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Speaker 1: famed entrepreneur. That's probably one of the best ways. And

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Speaker 1: the way that I've heard you describe yourself that I

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Speaker 1: love is a disruptive entrepreneur.

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Speaker 3: So I guess if if I was to be mindful

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Speaker 3: in the response, most people associate me as the guy

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Speaker 3: who owns or runs or you know, is the missis

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Speaker 3: sat Ali And so in that yes.

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Speaker 2: You don't need to be mindful here. You just say

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Speaker 2: whatever you want.

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Speaker 3: So that in that realm, I've been discovered. I've been

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Speaker 3: described as everything from coffee king, you know, spiritual leader,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. And that's lovely because san Ali really has

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Speaker 3: been instrumental to the life that I have today, and

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Speaker 3: for that I'm grateful and thankful. But I have been

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Speaker 3: entrepreneurial forever.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is what I'm really excited about, because I

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Speaker 1: went down the rabbit hole of googling researching you. First

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Speaker 1: of all, do you know when you google your name,

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Speaker 1: the first two things that come up in Google predictions?

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Speaker 3: Oh god, what is it?

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Speaker 2: So the first one is wife and the second one is.

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Speaker 3: Net value excellent, So is it the current wife?

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Speaker 2: Well I'm hoping so the one people Joanne?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Good, So that's interesting. And I had the net

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Speaker 3: wealth represents me fairly.

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Speaker 2: I didn't click. I was just like I told my boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: I was like, guess what, and he's like, it's you.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect because so many people are intrigued by you

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Speaker 1: because you are such a go getter. So for those

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Speaker 1: people that don't know you, they will, they will know

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Speaker 1: st Onli. They have definitely sitting on your coffee, like

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Speaker 1: said lab.

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Speaker 2: What else We've got auction rooms.

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Speaker 3: Back like Clement, auction rooms, sensor labs, and we.

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Speaker 1: Were a co owner in Happy Place.

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Speaker 3: You know. Over the years since nineteen ninety three, I've

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Speaker 3: either been directly involved or as an investor in over

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Speaker 3: eighty food and beverage venues. And some of them are

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Speaker 3: short lived, some are long lived, some are strategic plays.

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Speaker 3: But my love really is coffee.

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Speaker 2: So I've heard at any one time you can have

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Speaker 2: fifteen things happening at once, like business wise.

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Speaker 3: All the time. In fact, where I feel very blessed

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Speaker 3: these days is we've got a solid team of grown

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Speaker 3: ups running the operations, so we're looking at things all

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Speaker 3: the time. I mean, you may have noticed, in fact,

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Speaker 3: I think you're wearing one of our one of our parrels.

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Speaker 3: We used to use the word merch, but we've moved

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Speaker 3: from merge to apparel because it's a proper range. In fact,

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Speaker 3: we've got a museum piece coming out in three weeks

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Speaker 3: which is a Japanese cotton, you know, died locally here

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Speaker 3: in Brunswick and made in Collingwood, and it's a worker's

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Speaker 3: baker's jacket, which is quite hot. And the vision is

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Speaker 3: that within a year or so where you know, we're

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Speaker 3: showing at the fashion.

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Speaker 2: Shows, so one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: But also, and by the way, my daughter's just walked

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Speaker 3: into the room, so you're probably here, and she's reaching

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Speaker 3: out wondering why I'm talking into a metal tube.

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Speaker 2: Big Blue is big blue eyes.

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Speaker 3: She's good.

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Speaker 2: She's the cutest thing ever.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I was saying to you, I've got a

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Speaker 1: friend on in Star Well, friend Bill. If he listens

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Speaker 1: to this, we send each other photos Cleo to well Billy,

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Speaker 1: Billy is off because we think she's the cutest kid

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Speaker 1: in the world.

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Speaker 3: I love Billy. He's good.

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Speaker 1: So just quickly on the fashion apparel, really quickly, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll rewind a little bit. You have a creative

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Speaker 1: team of five people currently right that does all of

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Speaker 1: this fashion apparel Star.

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Speaker 3: Correct, so forever and never and ever, even early early days.

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Speaker 3: I mean I'm talking early days when I was nineteen

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Speaker 3: and we were stringing, you know, putting together stores on

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Speaker 3: shoe string budgets literally, you know, So it was either

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Speaker 3: borrowed furniture, stolen furniture, or you know. We always had

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Speaker 3: as a member of the team, at my request, someone

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Speaker 3: who is a creative and whether they were a graphic designer,

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Speaker 3: an artist or photographer. I needed to bounce ideas off

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Speaker 3: someone all the time for fulfilling my kind of emotional needs,

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Speaker 3: I guess. And as we got bigger, I invested more

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Speaker 3: and more on a creative team. And so for a

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Speaker 3: coffee company, we have five full time creative guys, which

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Speaker 3: is probably insane.

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Speaker 1: But I go into their office like once a week

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Speaker 1: because I also work with Taters, who's one of your guys.

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Speaker 1: But would you say if you've had a creative team

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Speaker 1: to fulfill that part of I'm going to say your heart,

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Speaker 1: would you say that there's a although you are business

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Speaker 1: business entrepreneur and a bit of a go getter and

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Speaker 1: got that kind of bulldog drive, I hope you don't

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Speaker 1: you don't know, Yeah, would you say that you have

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Speaker 1: like a sensitive creative.

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Speaker 2: Side as well?

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Speaker 3: Sure? But you know what's interesting that even the way

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Speaker 3: that question is framed, and I hope you're happy for

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Speaker 3: me to have a go at you about it, I don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive. So we've got this

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Speaker 3: view in this country that entrepreneurs are sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: bulldogging and aggressive and you know, numbers driven. But generally

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Speaker 3: good entrepreneurs are creative because they're looking for they're either

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Speaker 3: creating a product which satisfies a need that didn't exist,

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Speaker 3: or they're satisfying a need that isn't out there. So

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Speaker 3: there's an enormous creative you know, energy that goes into that.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I'm I'm not sure if you watch the

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Speaker 3: Netflix series on Bill.

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Speaker 1: Gates, it's on my list, I cannot wait.

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Speaker 3: You know, you know, inside Bill's mind, But you know

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Speaker 3: he's a guy who's you know, made serious, serious money.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, in his heyday when people were

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Speaker 3: being negative, he was being described as a Rockefeller of

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Speaker 3: the of the nineties. But you know he's put his

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Speaker 3: mind to, you know, trying to fix and cure a

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Speaker 3: radio k pole. Yeah right, these guys, And please, I'm

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Speaker 3: not suggesting I'm in that realm. All I'm saying is

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Speaker 3: guys who are entrepreneurs tend to never stop their brains,

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Speaker 3: so at some point it isn't there's a difference an

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Speaker 3: entrepreneur and a focused wealth creator. So I tend to

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Speaker 3: think of wealth creators guys in the banking space, for example,

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Speaker 3: who don't really make anything but put together instruments to

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Speaker 3: generate more wealth or what they refer to as economic rent.

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Speaker 3: These guys aren't necessarily creative. They're the trustal, purest form

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Speaker 3: of capitalism. But entrepreneurs tend to love what they're doing,

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Speaker 3: and a byproduct of that is they tend to make

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Speaker 3: money or lots of money or more money, but then

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Speaker 3: they tend to use that money to do different things.

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Speaker 3: For example, the guys from at Leassian, who is at

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Speaker 3: a tech company, and they started in their garage and

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Speaker 3: I think the last worth thirty billion dollars each. He's

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Speaker 3: an eco warrior, so he's using his wealth as a

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Speaker 3: platform to help and send a message to politicians about

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Speaker 3: the things that matter to him. So what I'm saying is,

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Speaker 3: if you're like, the best one that everyone knows is

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Speaker 3: Patagonia rat So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Great, So okay, So I love that you're basically saying

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Speaker 1: they're two in the one thing. And I've heard you

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Speaker 1: talk about entrepreneurs almost being almost like an athlete where

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Speaker 1: you've got this goal and it's like the blinkers are

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Speaker 1: on and you're training, you know, fifty weeks of the year.

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Speaker 1: You're working your ass off basically, and nothing else really matters.

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Speaker 1: And it's like same when you've got a business goal.

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Speaker 1: And that's where I want to go back to when

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Speaker 1: you were twenty one years old, nineteen ninety three, caffeine

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Speaker 1: was born.

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Speaker 2: Can you take us through what caffeine was?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, so. I mean I've spoken about this a

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Speaker 3: bit and some people tend to compartmentalize me or put

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Speaker 3: me in a box about you know, or make assumptions

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Speaker 3: rather about my past and where I came from. And

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Speaker 3: often people assume that there was family money, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I went to the right schools and I allowed some

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Speaker 3: of the assumptions to be made because you know, I

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Speaker 3: went to University of Melbourn Law School and it was

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Speaker 3: just much easier for those assumptions to be made. But

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Speaker 3: the truth is we had a pretty humble beginning, like

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Speaker 3: most immigrants and migrants migrants into Australia and at one

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Speaker 3: point there was twelve of us living in a two

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Speaker 3: bedroom home. So I and you were, how old were

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Speaker 3: you at this point six. Yeah, and I had. And

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Speaker 3: I remember Robert Benini gave a speech once and it

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Speaker 3: stayed with me forever, and I think it was when

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Speaker 3: he won an Oscar or one of the film awards,

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Speaker 3: and he said, my parents gave me the best gift

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Speaker 3: of all. They gave me poverty. And so for me,

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Speaker 3: I had to sort of hustle my way out of there, right.

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Speaker 1: And did you see your dad's pay slip or something

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Speaker 1: and you were thirteen and your payslip and your dad's pace.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was. I was earning more money than my father.

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Speaker 3: I was watering three nights, awaking with tips. I was

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Speaker 3: earning more money than him net. So it wasn't a

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Speaker 3: difficult leap for someone who to make the connection that

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Speaker 3: being poor sucked and I needed to hustle my way

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Speaker 3: out of it. So I guess I don't know whether

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Speaker 3: being entrepreneur was DNA or socially constructed, but I knew

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Speaker 3: that it felt good to me to be able to

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Speaker 3: afford things that weren't afforded to me by earning money,

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Speaker 3: and so that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: So what I love is you're at Melbourne UNI, at

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Speaker 1: law school, you're living in did you have like something

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Speaker 1: like you're living in a share home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so like seven of you.

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Speaker 3: Actually we were living in Park Street, Brunswick, which is

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Speaker 3: very cool now, in a church, in a house owned

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Speaker 3: by the church, and it was seven rooms and it

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Speaker 3: was massive stables and at some points to be twelve

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Speaker 3: people living there. And I think the weekly rent was

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Speaker 3: sixty nine dollars each or seventy dollars each, and the

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Speaker 3: kiddy was like fifteen bucks. And I bought an old

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Speaker 3: Posty bike, you know, hoonder posty bike, the red ones,

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Speaker 3: from one of those auction houses, for one hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty bucks. I used to ride that around amazing everywhere

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Speaker 3: over the West Cape Bridge for example, which is not

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Speaker 3: a very good place to ride a Posty bike. And

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Speaker 3: then I opened my first cafe for the University of

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Speaker 3: Melbourne called Caffeine, and then my life changed.

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Speaker 2: And you were twenty one at this stage.

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Speaker 3: It may haven't been twenty. I just I remember being

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Speaker 3: in this house sharing environment and then we opened the

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Speaker 3: cafe and just made a lot of money and I

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Speaker 3: was like, this is nuts. So I moved into the

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Speaker 3: Rockman's Regency Hotel which is now the Marriot I think,

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Speaker 3: and at the time Urban Rockman owned that hotel and

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Speaker 3: it's where the Musos just chose to stay when they

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Speaker 3: came to Melbourne' So every night was a party and

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Speaker 3: we were living at the Rockman and getting room service.

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Speaker 3: It was very cool. It all happened in about twelve

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Speaker 3: months and.

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Speaker 1: By the time you graduated fast forward, how many cafes

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Speaker 1: did you have with us?

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Speaker 3: Yes, lots. Of What happened was I didn't realize I

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Speaker 3: was in the tertiary space, so I became the I mean,

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Speaker 3: in fact, some of my competitors today used to make

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Speaker 3: fun of me back then, calling me the university King.

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Speaker 3: We opened up I think fifteen sixteen, seventeen or I

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Speaker 3: mean cafes across the number of tertiary so we owned

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Speaker 3: the tertiary landscape.

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Speaker 1: Wow, okay, So to me, this says that there's something

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Speaker 1: integral within your brain or your heart that is separating

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Speaker 1: you from the average human being. Like there's some like

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Speaker 1: genius thing going on. And I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 1: having a high risk profile.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain that?

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Speaker 3: Sure? So the I remember when you know, I kind

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Speaker 3: of time's going to blur for me. But I may

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Speaker 3: have been twenty years ago, you know, reading self help

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Speaker 3: books and managing books and you know anything get my

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Speaker 3: hands on. When I was because you know, I'm a

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Speaker 3: lawyer and my law degree, I'm a kind of speed reader.

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Speaker 3: So I just consumed twelve books a week for a

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Speaker 3: long time. And sometimes I'd read some dumb books and

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Speaker 3: you know, or anything anyone gave me. One of the

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Speaker 3: books that someone gave me was Rich That Poor Dad

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Speaker 3: and in that and what I remember from that book

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Speaker 3: was and it wasn't necessarily a good book, it was

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Speaker 3: just there was a diagram in that book where talked

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Speaker 3: about the you know, what it takes to have freedom

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Speaker 3: from being shackled to finances, and it was a left

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Speaker 3: quadron and the right quadron in anyway in that description.

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Speaker 3: And you know, if your listeners can be bothered, grab

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Speaker 3: a copy or google it or whatever. And what I

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Speaker 3: one of the analysis I discover is that when you

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Speaker 3: ask people, what distinguishes employees, self employed business people and

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Speaker 3: investors is employees, when you ask and what they need

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Speaker 3: or what they want, they tend to ask for things

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Speaker 3: like what are my holiday pay in? You know, how

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Speaker 3: much leave do I gage? And what's my loading? And

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Speaker 3: that kind of question, and you know, self employed people

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Speaker 3: tend to say things like, oh, well, I'm the only

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Speaker 3: person who can do this, and so you think, well,

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Speaker 3: if you're the only person, you can do this, so

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Speaker 3: you're stuck in that. So then it's like a full

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Speaker 3: time job, but you're paying yourself. And then business people

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Speaker 3: tend to say things like I'm looking for an agent

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Speaker 3: or manager or someone who's really good online. And investors

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Speaker 3: tend to wear rates of returns and that's the ultimate

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Speaker 3: unshackling from finances, and in that process you work out

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Speaker 3: people's risk profile. So some people are willing to punt

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Speaker 3: the f family farm and other people are not willing

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Speaker 3: to punt a dollar. I punted everything all the time.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but it was kind of easy for me

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Speaker 3: because I didn't have much to start with. So so

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Speaker 3: it was just like I never had this anyway, so whatever.

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Speaker 3: And so when I started in business, every deal we

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Speaker 3: did was family farm, you know, because it was just

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Speaker 3: like and because early on every time every year, we

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Speaker 3: would celebrate the harvest. I guess if you want to,

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Speaker 3: if I can use that word, I decided that this

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Speaker 3: may never last, so we should enjoy the moment. And

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Speaker 3: every year we started, you know, living living the dream

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Speaker 3: and we kept that going right through till forty seven.

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Speaker 3: So every year we allocate some resources and some time

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Speaker 3: to make sure that we tick off the Bucalist.

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Speaker 2: So I've I.

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Speaker 1: Love what you just said them and I've learned so

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Speaker 1: much off you, And I know We've had many along

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Speaker 1: meetings in your office where I'm like, Okay, this thing's happened,

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Speaker 1: can you help me through it? And You've always we're

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Speaker 1: both Virgos, and my correctness, I think I'm a Cuspian burgo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you are a bit pinched. I'm in the jam in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it, and I was would always, would always,

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Speaker 1: I'd always turn to you for a bit of guidance.

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Speaker 1: And you have this very innate ability to there's a

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Speaker 1: few things I think that you're freaking amazing at, but

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Speaker 1: you can compartmentalize. And so, for example, to go back

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Speaker 1: to like happy place, I'd get very attached to small ideas,

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Speaker 1: or i'd have I'd get quite emotional. And it was

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Speaker 1: my first kind of venture outside of writing books, and

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Speaker 1: you were like, you know, you're going to need to

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Speaker 1: learn to let go and to kind of like not

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Speaker 1: get emotional about certain things. And I've heard you speak

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Speaker 1: about people that are willing to take risks, have this

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Speaker 1: ability to kind of compartmentalize or take a big risk

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Speaker 1: and still sleep at night.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think that I think the I think

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Speaker 3: a distinction that can be made and not always. I

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Speaker 3: think you can be an artist and an entrepreneur. And

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Speaker 3: I think I'm not qualify to make comments about musicians,

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Speaker 3: but I guess as Stones are an example of artists

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Speaker 3: and entrepreneurs. I mean, the Stone brand is pretty massive,

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Speaker 3: but I think the difference between an artist and an

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Speaker 3: entrepreneur and they can overlap. As I've said, artists tend

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Speaker 3: to hold on to every single detail. So if you

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Speaker 3: want to be the world's best severeinist or you know,

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Speaker 3: trumpet player or guitar play, if you want to be Hendrix,

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Speaker 3: you've got to play all the time at all costs. Right.

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Speaker 3: And you know someone I love dearly and is a

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Speaker 3: friend is the Dan Hunter from Bray that restaurant wins

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Speaker 3: awards a time. He's crazy committed to detail. He's an

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Speaker 3: artist probably probably, And those kinds of artists aren't necessarily

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Speaker 3: entrepreneur or they can be though, right. So for me,

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Speaker 3: I find that I compartmentalize my life. And if I

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Speaker 3: didn't compartmentalize my life, I couldn't function so and I

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Speaker 3: mean my life in its entire, not just business. So

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Speaker 3: if we do something that doesn't work out, why I

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Speaker 3: compartmentalize that. And I have a view of accelerating failing.

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Speaker 3: So I fail fast and get rid of it and

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Speaker 3: just get on with it. And some people who put

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Speaker 3: their life and hard into it, like you did with

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Speaker 3: a happy place, won't change the detail until you get

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Speaker 3: You know, you've got to give it everything, everything, everything

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Speaker 3: which is lovely. It's just not how my mind works.

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Speaker 2: No, And I think that one is the long term

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Speaker 2: game and one is like getting caught in there.

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Speaker 3: No, But I mean I don't want to discount the

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Speaker 3: getting caught up because, as I say, some of the

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Speaker 3: guys who get caught up end up having some tremendous results.

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Speaker 3: It's just a different journey. And I don't know whether

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Speaker 3: it's feng shui. I don't know whether it's you know,

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Speaker 3: any energy, or whether it's just bad luck or locations.

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Speaker 3: But for example, some sites never work. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 3: who goes into there. There's plenty of science in Melbourne,

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Speaker 3: there's a few in Chapel a few in South Ara,

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Speaker 3: for example, over thirty years, I've seen thirty businesses go

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Speaker 3: into them and thirty businesses fail. I mean that starts

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Speaker 3: got to be cursed, right, It's a curse site. So

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Speaker 3: you can talk about fengshui, or you can talk about

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Speaker 3: being cursed, or you can put something's fucked about that

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Speaker 3: site totally. And so if you get one of those,

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Speaker 3: for example, you just got to let go, yeah, because

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Speaker 3: otherwise you're going to drive yourself crazy totally.

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Speaker 1: So at the moment we've kind of been talking about

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Speaker 1: I guess your little nuggets, right, I want to know

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Speaker 1: about when things fucked up. So I imagine I remember

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Speaker 1: one day I was coming to see you and you said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to walk you downstairs.

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Speaker 2: You know your office is upstairs.

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Speaker 1: You walk me downstairs and you said, Lola, people have

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Speaker 1: a perception of you and they're going to want to take.

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Speaker 2: Advantage of you.

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Speaker 3: Correct.

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Speaker 1: And it was stuck with me because I'm a bit

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Speaker 1: of a giver and I'm and I give people a

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Speaker 1: bit naive, I'd say, or I have less so.

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Speaker 3: Now yeah, probably less so now after a couple of

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Speaker 3: years with me.

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Speaker 2: But when has can you share any times when people

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Speaker 2: have taken advantage of you when you've had all your

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Speaker 2: heart in it, or you've given your all to something.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm I anticipated that you might ask

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Speaker 3: me questions about failings because you know, that's very interesting

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Speaker 3: actually because you learn from your failings and and you know,

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Speaker 3: I just remember, and you know, I was in I

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Speaker 3: was kind of in awe of Branson for a while,

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Speaker 3: and he's had lots of failings that no one ever

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Speaker 3: talks about. They always talk about, you know, all the

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Speaker 3: cool stuff, but there's been lots of dumb things that

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Speaker 3: he's done. And so we've all had lots of failings.

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Speaker 3: And so if I were to choose some failings to

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Speaker 3: talk about, because I've had more than three, I've had

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Speaker 3: tons of failings, I guess I want to talk about

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Speaker 3: a personal failing first, which is not business, but it

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Speaker 3: is a failing. I mean my first marriage. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm sadden that that didn't it didn't work out, and

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Speaker 3: I'd put fair bit into that, and you know I won't,

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Speaker 3: you know, I in terms of contributing contributory negligence as

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Speaker 3: a lawyer, so who's responsible for what? So I won't

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Speaker 3: take one hundred percent responsibility for that. But you know

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Speaker 3: that's a failing, right, and that failing came about through

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Speaker 3: a number of reasons, but it really came about through

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Speaker 3: being completely committed to my business and not investing in

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Speaker 3: the science when I when I should have seen them,

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Speaker 3: for example. So failings can happen lots of ways, but

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Speaker 3: in terms of business, I mean, I want to talk

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Speaker 3: about a early on failing. No one knows. I've never

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Speaker 3: spoken about it, but now that I thought about it's

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Speaker 3: pretty funny. When I was thirteen or fourteen, I decided

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Speaker 3: that I was going to make Casarta ice cream. I

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Speaker 3: guess we used to make it at home for the

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Speaker 3: family and it was quite delicious. So what's so it's

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Speaker 3: like a a Sicilian or Neapolitan dessert, like a semi fredo.

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Speaker 3: There's lots of versions of it, but you know, like

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Speaker 3: a restaurant here in Melbourne Stoke he does a flaming

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Speaker 3: version of Yeah, like the Flaming Bomb Molesca. And anyway,

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Speaker 3: I made this beautiful product. I was really excited by it,

435
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: and I started selling it. But what I didn't consider

436
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: was transport because I was thirteen or fourteen, and transporting

437
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 3: ice cream probably needed to be refrigerated, so of course

438
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 3: by the time I dropped off my first batch, it

439
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 3: was more like a thick shake than an ice cream.

440
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: And of course all that money that I invested as

441
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 3: a kid all went down or went down the toilet.

442
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 3: But so I've had plenty of those, right, I've also

443
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: I've also as I got older, I I've had done

444
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: business business with partners who have not been aligned with

445
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 3: my values and done some things which have been a

446
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 3: security safety breach for me. And then I've had to

447
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 3: unwind myself from those own relationships. And often in the

448
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 3: unwinding process, the easiest way to unwind and without you know, litigation,

449
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 3: is to take on the responsibility of cleaning up the mess.

450
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 3: So if you think of it as an oil spill,

451
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,719
Speaker 3: then I'm left with paying the cost of cleaning out

452
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 3: the oil spill. And you know, for me, one of

453
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 3: the relationships that came undone early on was we opened

454
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 3: Saint Heleen, London in twenty ten. I went, all right,

455
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: how was it?

456
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: It was pretty awesome?

457
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 3: Thanks, and we opened in twenty ten, which for those

458
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: listening who are young, will know that London twenty ten

459
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: had like Mammoth coffee and that's about it, And no,

460
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 3: that's the entirely true. We had a couple of key

461
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: we outfits as well that were pretty good, and we

462
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 3: opened a proper micro rose tree and nowed it. And anyway,

463
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 3: without discussing the details of that, because there was some

464
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 3: confidential agreements signed at the time, but that ended up

465
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: in a mess, and I had made assumptions about the

466
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: people involved, about their moral character and bits and pieces

467
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 3: in any way, I ended up having to unwind what

468
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 3: was meant to be my billboard for expanding scenari into Europe.

469
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: Have you ever taken revenge?

470
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: No, I don't. I'm not sure that I do revenge.

471
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: I think it's a lot of energy in revenge, I know.

472
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: But the reason why I ask you this is when

473
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: you quit the law firm, I think you might have

474
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: written an email like highlighting the people through the dingoes

475
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: to you.

476
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, So that wasn't revenge. That was kind of

477
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: like calling people out, Yeah, calling people out for poor behavior.

478
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: So when I so, when I resigned from the law

479
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 3: firm that I was working at, there are a couple

480
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: of dingoes who back then, and I'm sure it's still

481
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 3: the case now for law kids. I feel sorry for

482
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 3: the matual. We speak about fair work, but professionals in

483
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 3: the junior roles get abused, both in terms of our

484
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 3: and just verbal bashings. And I called out the dinger,

485
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 3: So you know, I sent a global email to everyone

486
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: who went to the firm, thanking those who mentored me

487
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 3: through the program and calling out the dingoes with rather

488
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 3: nasty language. And I had my little box and my

489
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: hip ready to walk out as soon as I pressed send,

490
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 3: But then I stuck around for a little bit to

491
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: grab some of the replies and print them. And the replies,

492
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: you know, varied from you fucking legend. I can't believe

493
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 3: you said that too. You've just blown up your career

494
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 3: forever kind of emails. And I knew that I'd blown

495
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 3: up my career forever. But that's kind of what I

496
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 3: wanted to do. I wanted to make sure that I

497
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: couldn't get back into law, so I had to make

498
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: business work.

499
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: Wow. I love that, by the way. Also, one thing

500
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to forget. You mentioned it

501
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: about two or three times already failing fast. Yeah, is

502
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: that like, okay, you can see something's not going right,

503
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: rather than sitting in the Marge, you kind of like,

504
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: I can see this problems about to.

505
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: Happen, so you know when you're a genuine startup entrepreneur, right,

506
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: And so I should just try to choose my words carefully,

507
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: putting text stocks in a silo because I mean, you know,

508
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: textocs can lose billions of dollars every year and still

509
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: keep raising billions of dollars. And as a guy who's

510
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: brought up on cash flow being king or cash flow

511
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: being the liquidity, cashow being the bloodline of your business,

512
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: to me, tex stocks the way they evaluations, I'm still

513
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: yet to understand them, right, So how can something lose

514
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 3: six beion dollars for you and then raise another ten

515
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: beanon dollars? Right? So for me, we needed the cash

516
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: coming into pay for bills, and if we couldn't pay

517
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: for bills, we were dead, dead in the water. And

518
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 3: that's one of the things I started. I said early

519
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 3: on in my career. You know, profit is theoretical. Cash

520
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 3: is real, so you can make all the profit in

521
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 3: the world, but if you're not getting paid, you're kind

522
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 3: of screwed. Right. Yeah, So for me, fighting fast was

523
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: sort of born out of a necessity because if I

524
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: didn't fail fast, I'd be burning with the cash that

525
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 3: I had, and then I'd be screwed. So yeah, I

526
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 3: tend to if I think something doesn't have legs and

527
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 3: we've given a shot and given a good shot, I

528
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 3: blow it up, and I blow it up in a compartmentalized,

529
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: an emotional, non emotional.

530
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: Disheartened way, and to just share really like honestly and

531
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: vulnerably here. I haven't ever spoken about this, but when

532
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: the call was my own happy place, you called me in,

533
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: you grab me a call, and you were like, lols,

534
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: can you come in? And I sat down and you

535
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: were like, this is not working for us right now,

536
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: for where you want to go and for where we

537
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 1: want to go. And I had a moment and then

538
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: you took me out to dinner.

539
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 2: Do you remember we had a beer we went after dinner,

540
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: and it was a beautiful lesson in knowing when to

541
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: let go. I think I still took two more weeks

542
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 2: to go. Can I think about it?

543
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 3: Yeah? You did, and that's right, I mean, you know,

544
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 3: and that was a beautiful project. In fact, I drove

545
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: past that. I drove past happy place, which is now

546
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: called something else. You know often because I've got Clement

547
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: Coffee next door, and it's such a beautiful store. It

548
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 3: is I think that was was that feel and Lynch

549
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: did that, Lynch the office did that. Still a beautiful store.

550
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: I think it was an excellent addition and contribution to

551
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 3: the market. And you know, I think it will be

552
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 3: forever beautiful being the book ends of that gate gateway

553
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: into the market. And I think the product was great

554
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 3: and the crystal giving was great. All it was great.

555
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: I think we may have been slightly too early on

556
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: the non dairy and your uncompromising desire to make everything perfect.

557
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: It meant our cost of goods with the same price

558
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 3: as our retail yeh. But but it was a it

559
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: was a beautiful project. But you know, for us, we

560
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 3: were a coffee business primarily, or a creative agency selling

561
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: coffee as I like to say, and you know, we

562
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 3: sell seventeen tons of coffee a week, and in context

563
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: was a distruction for our main business totally.

564
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: And I can in hindsight, I can absolutely see that

565
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: so clearly without feeling a motive. But Sala has definitely

566
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: seen me have a few tears in his office. Good okay,

567
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: So one thing I've loved as I've researched you. So

568
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: I've always known you as kind of this go getter

569
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: ever since literally I reckon ten years ago, you got

570
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: me running like Lola Verry smoothies on your Saint Ali menu, correct, which.

571
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: Is still there today itself?

572
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, which one is it?

573
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: It's like a very one. It's called the Lola Verry Smoothie.

574
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: So You're amazing, Thank you.

575
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: Good perfect.

576
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: But the more that I've one got to know you

577
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: and to research you, you're willing to share this, this

578
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: side of you that I've never heard shared before. So

579
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: I've heard you speak openly and you've done it to

580
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: me as well. About anxiety and having a panic attack. Yeah,

581
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: you were thirty three when you had your first panic attack.

582
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: Yes, panic attacks, I am. Let's talk about those because

583
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 3: they're fun. Now I don't have them anymore, but I

584
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: can think about pass and have a bit of a

585
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: laugh about it because my first panic attack, I don't

586
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: know if I was thirty or thirty three or whatever,

587
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: but I was younger, much younger, some people would say

588
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 3: young and I actually thought I was having a heart attack. Yeah,

589
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: like it feels it feels like a heart attack. Yeah,

590
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: well I don't know. I never had a heart attack.

591
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: Touch with I had my first one of thirty three

592
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: and I had to lean. I was standing up and

593
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't stand up anymore. I thought I was having

594
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: a heart attack.

595
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that I drove myself to I think it

596
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: was Malash so Malash Hospital and emergency department, and you know,

597
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: it was like that scene out of Analyze This with

598
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: Robert de Niro, Whether you know a truge doctor came said,

599
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: great news, missus mantest. It was a panic attack. And

600
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: I was like, I to have panic attacks, but you're

601
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 3: talking about panic attacks, you know that kind of thing. Anyway,

602
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: I had had three of them, and then after the

603
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: third one, I went and got therapy and sitting in

604
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: my you know, therapy and I went and got therapy.

605
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: I was forced to get well. I was encouraged to

606
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 3: get therapy by my GP and my then wife. And

607
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: I remember sitting in silence in the first therapeutic session

608
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: with my therapist and she'd stare at me, and I'd

609
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: stare at her, and she'd smile when I'd smile, and

610
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 3: she'd say what are you thinking? And I'd be like nothing,

611
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: and she's like why you're here, you know, I've been

612
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: forced to be here that kind of thing, and then

613
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: resistant and then she said, this is a safe room.

614
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: You can see anything you're thinking. And I won't share

615
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: what I said to her because it was you know,

616
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: it's in the confines of a session. But also it

617
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: was quite mean, and I made some comments about her

618
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: and what I was thinking. And then I opened up

619
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: a world of pain and tears to me and I

620
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: did thirteen weeks of CBNT and or CBT whatever it's

621
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: called cocky behavioral therapy and you know, work through my

622
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: anxiety panic attacks. But then I kept the But then

623
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: I kept the therapy sessions going for a long time,

624
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: like seven years, because I did love them, and that's

625
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: why I saw them as an opportunity to event and

626
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: dump and and so I went from being a you know,

627
00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 3: non believer to a strong advocate of therapy and good therapy.

628
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: And you know, I am, as you say, fairly open

629
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 3: about these things. I don't yeh, human failings or they've

630
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: got to be celebrated. You know. It's like, you know,

631
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: there's sort of talking about pregnancies, for example, when when

632
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 3: I've had four children and we always talk about being pregnant,

633
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: and there's a sort of taboo about talking about being

634
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: pregnant to your thirteen weeks and then until you've the

635
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 3: twenty one week scan and stuff like that. And I've

636
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: always been like, well, you know, these things are real

637
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: and they happen, and there's no need to have any

638
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 3: attachment to them. They just are what they are. So

639
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 3: I had panic attacks. Okay, So see.

640
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: The panic attacks were the line with when.

641
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: So I don't know what trigger them. No, So I

642
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: look through through work, we through the work that I

643
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: did through therapy. I a couple of things happened to me.

644
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: One as a kid, I was seven and had a

645
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: NAZMA attack that was substantial, so they thought they lost me.

646
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: Even years is like a really interesting spiritual number.

647
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: Two Okay, I didn't know that, And that was and

648
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: I remember that like you know, like I had it

649
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 3: yesterday and I was a prem baby. And then when

650
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: I was eighteen or nineteen, I was locked in a

651
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: lift for three hours and there were three distinctive memories

652
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: for me of not being able to breathe. So, you know,

653
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, if you believe in talk therapy or whatever,

654
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 3: you can say they had a contributing a contribution made

655
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: of contribution to my panic attacks, but it tended to happen.

656
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: My father died and I processed that death quite mechanically.

657
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: Were you close, very And I love him and I

658
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: still miss him, and it was horrible death. It was

659
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: gastric cans and it took a couple of years, and

660
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: my brother and mother fell apart through that process. So

661
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: I held it together and I said, process that death mechanically,

662
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: as in on a phenomenal funeral, and I didn't cry much.

663
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 3: But then two years later, I was sitting not sure

664
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: why I was there, actually, but I was sitting on

665
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: the fence of Saint Patrick's Cathedral and I looked up

666
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: and I saw the Peter Mack logo and I burst

667
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: into tears for hours. And I was probably the first

668
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: time that I processed his death. So it's probably something

669
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 3: to do with repressed feelings. But as I saying, you know,

670
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: we've got to I've stopped striving for perfection. I said,

671
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 3: just continue improvement because you know, perfections are flitting moments,

672
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: so we've just got to keep working at it right

673
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: whatever we're doing.

674
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: Totally, I'm so glad you shit about therapy I'm very,

675
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: very proad. I go once a week and and I

676
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: get hypnotherapy, the works, And I do it because I

677
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: want to be the best I can be. And it's

678
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: like gym for your brain, like you're on a Keto diet,

679
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: looking great.

680
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 3: By on the line, thank you, we can talk about kid.

681
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 3: I love kidd.

682
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: And also, you know you train six days a week, correct,

683
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: I do? And then with the brain is like the

684
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: king of it all. And so I see therapy as like, well,

685
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: like my therapist says, let's just get you bulletproof.

686
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: Yeah great, And I see it as like a non

687
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: negotiable for my overall health.

688
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 3: And yeah, well, preservation and regeneration, those words are critical

689
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: for me. So I know as I've got older, you know,

690
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 3: as you know too well, we tend to get invited

691
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 3: to a lot of things. So if I committed, if

692
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: I went to all the things that I got invited to,

693
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: it'd be two or three events at night, seven days

694
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 3: a week.

695
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: You get invited to more than me, my friends, I reckon, I.

696
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: Go to one thing every two weeks now, So I choose,

697
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: I choose things I really want to go to because

698
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: I can't give myself anymore I've got to preserve and regenerate,

699
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 3: and that time happens at home for me, with the

700
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: family and people I love, and reading and being quiet.

701
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: Could it also be though you have done all this

702
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: work on yourself, you've grown wiser and like. As great

703
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: as events are, a lot of them are empty and

704
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: full of dingos and people that probably want.

705
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: Something from you.

706
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 3: I'm going to borrow that word. I like dingos because

707
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: I stole it off. I've got another word that's not appropriate.

708
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: I saw it off your business partner, lock Locklamore does.

709
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 2: He taught me dingos.

710
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 3: I love dingos.

711
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 2: And to the point now, I've got a jumper that says,

712
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: don't be a dingo?

713
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 3: Oh nice? Where that jumper come from?

714
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 2: I gave a talk and they send it to me

715
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: if I'd.

716
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: Said it on stage, I'm going to take that word.

717
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 2: It's a good one.

718
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: No dingoes.

719
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean?

720
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: Right, So you've got you, You get invited everything because

721
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: you're like an eat guy of Melbourne.

722
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: You're a we call them in Sydney.

723
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: People call them melbourn celebrities malebrities, which you probably hate

724
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: that word. But you are a Melbourne celebrity and you know,

725
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: so you probably get invited everything, but I don't know

726
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: about you. Do you sometimes walk away from events and

727
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: you're like, why did I go to that? Five people

728
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: just asked for, like wanted things from me, And that

729
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: can be really especially because you care and you are

730
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: I believe that you are quite sensitive deep down, and

731
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: you have very soft heart. And I think that if

732
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: you would love to help everybody if you could, but

733
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: if you just keep giving to people, it's going to

734
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: come at a cost. And I think that those events,

735
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: there are some awesome ones, but there are also some

736
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: ones that I'm like, why do I just go to that?

737
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: And I'll feel quite empty and a bit down after

738
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: a little bit.

739
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 3: A little bit, that's true, a little bit. And I

740
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: have been blessed by uh and so I want to

741
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 3: speak positively about the power of media and pr and so,

742
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: I mean, for whatever reason, you know, the they've taken

743
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: a liking to the things I've got to say and

744
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 3: do and so, and they've helped me build my business.

745
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: So I'm forever grateful. But as sort of snippets of

746
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 3: people's lives get distilled into you know, Insta shots, you know,

747
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: the gram life of which I'm also guilty. I tend to.

748
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 3: I hope that I make most of my grams as

749
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: authentic as possible, and I don't trying. I don't really capture,

750
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 3: you know, bragging Graham shots. But as I've you know,

751
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 3: I'll be at an event and I'll watch twenty people

752
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 3: taking photographs of themselves in front of the media wall

753
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: continuously or night, and no one seems to be present

754
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: in the moment, and so I find myself wondering what

755
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: I'm doing there because I might as well just watch

756
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 3: it on the gram from home. And so unless someone's

757
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: wanting to be present, so for me, I think, and

758
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, I haven't got there yet, Lola, But learning

759
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: how to be present all the time, Yeah, is a trick.

760
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: I think you are there.

761
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: You're one of those people that, although you have five

762
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: things or fifteen things going on at once, when you're

763
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: with someone like right now, or if I visit you

764
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: in your office, you're there. And you also notice, like

765
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: if I come up to see someone else in your office,

766
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: you'll be like, come in, give me a hard connect,

767
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: and then you'll go on about what you're doing. You're

768
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: very good at connecting with other humans. I think that's

769
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: definitely an attribute of yours.

770
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: Thank you. Maybe humans that I like, Hey, I'll take that.

771
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: I've heard you describe yourself as an architect of my

772
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: own destiny. Is that something that you've learned from? Because

773
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: I know you were really close with your mom. You're

774
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: amazing Mama Bear.

775
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, or is that so Mama's a Mama was a strong,

776
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: strong woman. I think we had a household was more

777
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: matriarch than a patriarch.

778
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: That's common with the Italian.

779
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it can be. Yeah, I mean Mama Mama

780
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 3: bears always you know, put on a pedestal, but sometimes

781
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 3: it's a patriarchal household. But my mum ran the house,

782
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: Mum ran the finances and and can you hear my

783
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: babyrom the microphone.

784
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: That's okay, that's so cute.

785
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 3: And but what what mum gave me, more than you know,

786
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: I can never repay her, was a sense of self

787
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 3: belief that was, you know, elon musk in its kind

788
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: of stratospheric, you know, Nate craziness. Because I remember her

789
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 3: saying to me, if I wanted to be, I could

790
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 3: be the President of the United States of America. And obviously,

791
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 3: as I grew up, I realized that would be impossible

792
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: because I need to be an American citizen for starters.

793
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 3: But I grew up thinking that I had no limitations,

794
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 3: even though we were seriously imitated from a resource perspective.

795
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 3: So I actually believe that I could be the president.

796
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 3: You know, I said America right through my childhood, you know,

797
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 3: until I made the connection, the legal connection, that I

798
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 3: couldn't not not that I want just to be really clear,

799
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: not that I wanted to be I'm saying so I

800
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 3: never thought that I wouldn't achieve what I wanted to achieve,

801
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 3: and you know, and I feel like I've achieved those things.

802
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: How did your mum take it when you were like, yo,

803
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to give up being a lawyer and I'm

804
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: going to open.

805
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: So you know, it's Italian culture and perhaps you know

806
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 3: all other cultures, but you know, I feel like we're

807
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: aligned to Chinese cultures, Tiger mums, and Jewish cultures. And

808
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: there's always those jokes about you know, see the man.

809
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 3: So when the prison gives a speech and the mum says,

810
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 3: see my son on the stage. There he's a doctor,

811
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 3: and then talking about the brother. So in Italian families,

812
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: you know, number one would probably be being a priest, yea,

813
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: and number two and three would be doctor and lawyer

814
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 3: of course. So I feel like I got my Lord

815
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: Agreen became a lawyer to tick a box with my mum.

816
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I want to say that he was a

817
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 3: very useful degree. I loved my time at the university

818
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 3: in Melbourne and I've learned heaps, so you know, all

819
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 3: power to people who you study law. But it wasn't

820
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 3: a career for me, probably because I wasn't smart enough

821
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 3: to be a really awesome lawyer. But when I went

822
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 3: home and told my mother that I, you know, was

823
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: leaving the law, it was probably more heartbreaking for her

824
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 3: than me getting divorced, you know, because you know, in

825
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 3: our culture, all my relatives refer to me by a title,

826
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: you know, senor avocato, so mister lawyer, and so I

827
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 3: was a big deal. But and so my mum would

828
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: still call me the lawyer twenty years after my you

829
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 3: know left the law. So she was pretty heartbreakn was she?

830
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 2: When she saw the success of Sainali sales just shutting

831
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: the door. So we have beautiful sound in here. So

832
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: did that switch because of a self belief thing?

833
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: Though I know no Mum. I think Mum would have

834
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 3: still preferred for me to be a lawyer than done

835
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: a business guy. She was never really tied up into

836
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: you know, money at all. I mean, we grew all

837
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: our own veggies. You know, this may or may not

838
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: be true for the purposes of recording, but we used

839
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: to you know, kill owned pigs and chickens and so

840
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 3: you know, we ate from the ground in a suburb

841
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 3: in Melbourne, and so yeah, so there was no there

842
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: was no need for money really, I mean Mum made

843
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: everything and cooked everything, so we ate really well. I

844
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: remember eating delicious things growing up. But we never had

845
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 3: the money. So mony money, the money wasn't a motivator

846
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 3: for my mother. I guess you might say, we say

847
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 3: Bella for Gourda, so you know, a public face, you

848
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: know was important, so you know, honoring the family name,

849
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: marrying well, becoming you know, the best person you can be,

850
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: more so than making money. I mean making money was

851
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: kind of like whatever.

852
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. My boyfriend's Italian and he is the first Australian.

853
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: So I'm learning so much and everything's pickled, everything's made

854
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: at home on side, and it's there's some beauty.

855
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: That's it's very beautiful culture.

856
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 3: Thanks. I mean, I got to tell you since I've

857
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 3: since I've been on Keto, it's really funny because I

858
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 3: cook with pork lard, for example, which is what I

859
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: was brought up with. But for a long time we

860
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 3: sort of let go in this household of cooking with

861
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 3: fact as we thought, oh, that can't be good for you.

862
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 3: But more since I've become a Keido advocate or we

863
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 3: cook it with his and it's bloody delicious and.

864
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: So good for you, so good for you. I think

865
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 2: there's a stigma one thing before just one more thing

866
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 2: about your childhood and like, I don't know if you

867
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: remember this. You've told me stories of like this is

868
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: probably more the teeny kind of years, but it was

869
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: kind of rougher for you. Oh yes, a little smiles

870
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 2: just crept up.

871
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 3: Now we can go there.

872
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: I because Robbie used to tell me stories.

873
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so I I mean yeah, people who meet

874
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 3: me today would have no idea that we had a

875
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: fairly rough past. You know. That's my joke in meetings

876
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 3: always when people tell me they do boxer size or whatever,

877
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 3: I say, I always ask how many street fights do

878
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 3: you have and often people send up and no street fights,

879
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 3: no cred, you know. And I went to a pretty

880
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 3: tough school, which I probably won't mention here, and it

881
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 3: was fights every day. And I'm not a big guy,

882
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,959
Speaker 3: so you know, I needed to learn how to fight,

883
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 3: and I needed to learn how to surround myself with

884
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 3: people that could fight. And so I did that. And

885
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 3: if I look back at my friendship circles from those days,

886
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 3: a lot of those guys have unfortunately done some time

887
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 3: and got themselves in the spot of bother. And I

888
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 3: remember being fifteen and making the connection that I didn't

889
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: want that life. And I remember se down with a

890
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 3: bunch of friends and kind of divorcing them but with love.

891
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 3: And I was like, I can't do this. I'm out.

892
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: And so I took a very conscious path to do

893
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: the right thing. And yeah, I was brought up in

894
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 3: the household back then, where my brother, you know, would

895
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 3: at the drop of a hat, fluff his handle and

896
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 3: get into a full street brawl and it was generally

897
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: around racist comments slurred his way, and it was a

898
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 3: trigger for him. I was fortunate not to have those

899
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: racist comments, maybe because I look whiter than I do

900
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 3: Italian I don't know. But I also wasn't triggered by them,

901
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: so I know, if people called me a while, I'd

902
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 3: be like whatever. But he was very triggered. So it

903
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: was a household and my dad was iron fists. I mean,

904
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 3: if we answered back, we got hit. You know, it

905
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: was a tough household. And so it was a long

906
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: way from that. I live in a nice gated community now.

907
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: One more valuarish kind of question or challenges question when

908
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 1: you went, so you obviously had success reasonably young. Twenty

909
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: one is quite a young age to hit kind of

910
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: like big money and you know, moving to live in

911
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: the city and things like that. Was partying ever something

912
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: that was on the cards and kind of like being

913
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: a bit reckless with your life?

914
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 3: Of course we I think we mentioned a character on

915
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 3: the show already, but yeah, and you know, I would

916
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 3: I think it would be fair to say that if

917
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 3: I said I reckon, I've partied for more than this,

918
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: but partied intensely for ten years, I would say that

919
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: would be accurate. I remember coming out of the races

920
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 3: one year, I.

921
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: Have done the races with you, by the way, Yeah, I.

922
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: Came and I was pretty pretty full and for myself,

923
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 3: but I needed to actually take a Wii, and for

924
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 3: whatever reason, for whatever reason, every tour I went to

925
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 3: was locked or being cleaned, and I said to the joint,

926
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: I've just just got to I've just got a week.

927
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: I'm going to wean myself like it's an emergency. And

928
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: so it was the bowling club outside Flemington Racecourse and

929
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 3: I just, you know, went again. I went to town

930
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: on the fence of the bowling club outside Flemington Racecourse.

931
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not a proud moment, and I heard

932
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 3: sirens and I was midway midstream, and I was like fuck,

933
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 3: but I still had to keep weiing because I was started.

934
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 3: So I started, but then I managed to somehow midstream

935
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 3: stop my Wii, turn around and down like nothing had happened.

936
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 3: And yeah, I know. But of course, because I used

937
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 3: to be a lawyer, I saw it up pretty quickly.

938
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: And all I could think of was, it's got to

939
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 3: be an offense. It's got to be a I've committed

940
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 3: a crime. Of course, this is no good. So my

941
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 3: first phone call before the police officers walked towards me

942
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: was to a friend of mine who's a QC and

943
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 3: I remember him saying just tell him was an emergency.

944
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: Just time, it's an emergency, that's a defense. And so

945
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 3: as I asked me, since I said it's an emergency,

946
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 3: it's an emergency, I had to go as an emergency emergency.

947
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: So that wasn't But then you got off scott free.

948
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: Well yes, yeah, so that was That was one of

949
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 3: many which I won't see anymore on the show of

950
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 3: those that period. Thank you for divulging where I could

951
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: have found myself in a spot of bother my life

952
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 3: could have gone in a different direction. But this is

953
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: why I say I'm really I think once I hit forty,

954
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 3: I was just from forty onwards has been you know,

955
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 3: Yoda principles, totally wisdom principles, but it's.

956
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: Nice you share them as well, because it's nice to

957
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 1: know that you can still have little kind of hurdles

958
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: along the way premise of this.

959
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: In fact, one of the things I say to my

960
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 3: wife at the moment is, you know, the kids have

961
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 3: to make their own path, and we shouldn't remove too

962
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: many rocks. They need to move their own rocks to

963
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 3: make their own path, because moving the rocks is what

964
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 3: teaches you how to move the rocks to start with right.

965
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 3: So I love that. I think the hurdle I think

966
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 3: they heard alls are important so long as you know,

967
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: and this is my dream for my own children, so

968
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 3: long as nothing's as long as you don't end up

969
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,479
Speaker 3: having drink driving deaths or you know, those are really

970
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 3: hardcore incidences. I think some you know, falling potholes on

971
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 3: the way is pretty handy.

972
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 2: I love it.

973
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So just to wrap up, I've heard you describe

974
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: successful people or entrepreneurs as anyone that is.

975
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 2: Willing to really commit and you is that?

976
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: Would that be your advice for people that are listening

977
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: to this that are like, Okay, I've got this dream,

978
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to do the work.

979
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 2: I'm willing to put anything in I want.

980
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 1: You know, is it that belief that your mum taught

981
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: you or is it that single minded focused or is

982
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: it And I know you're at a stage now where

983
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: you're like you've you've got the resource and you've set

984
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 1: yourself up to live more present and more balanced. But

985
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: for people that are in that real like hustle, like

986
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: really want to make a dream come true phase, what's

987
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 1: your take home?

988
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm never to answer this question honestly, loader,

989
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 3: because we live in a vice of tapering and balance

990
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 3: and you know, sort of universal adherence to a bunch

991
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: of principles. But the truth is from from where I sit,

992
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 3: from what I've seen, and you know, And I even

993
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 3: read an article on the Financial Review on the weekend

994
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 3: a better particular CEO saying that she has a very

995
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 3: balanced work week, and and so that's I feel like

996
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 3: that's the advice I need to give. But it's actually

997
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,959
Speaker 3: not how I feel. What I feel is anybody who's

998
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 3: succeeded in anything, And let me just stretch out that definition.

999
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 3: So if you're an elite athlete, or if you're a

1000
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 3: concert pianist, or if you're you know, a celebrated groffiti

1001
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: artist like Ian Strange, or if you're or cause you know,

1002
00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: or if you're unfortunately MDJ Likeavicy or rest in Peace

1003
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 3: or if whatever, generally, these people are one thousand percent

1004
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 3: committed to the task in hand at all costs. And

1005
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: and I have been that person, and in some ways

1006
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: I still am that person, even though I've got a

1007
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 3: much more relaxed demeanor. I'm still very very committed to

1008
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 3: san Ali and it becoming, you know, forever part of

1009
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 3: the social fabric of Melbourne and the world, and that

1010
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: commitment is non relenting. So I think being the partner

1011
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 3: of or the children of of someone who's very committed

1012
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 3: to something is hard work. But I also think that

1013
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 3: people that succeed in their chosen fields are one thousand

1014
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 3: percent committed to that field and so the so I

1015
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: don't think you can unless you you know, in Paris,

1016
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 3: Hilton and have an inheritance, or you just get fucking lucky.

1017
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to succeed and be the best,

1018
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 3: and you feel unless you're committed to it all the time.

1019
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: So to your listeners, if they want to succeed, you know,

1020
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 3: I mean, what's a polite way of saying, balls deep, amazing?

1021
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, body, soul, mind deep, or

1022
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 3: you know, everything on the line, and I balls deep.

1023
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 3: And I recommend that behavior as early as possible, when

1024
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: you don't have as much to lose, so you know,

1025
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 3: the moment you have an entrepreneurial flicker sixteen fifteen, nineteen twenty,

1026
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 3: you go hard and you go deep and hopefully it works,

1027
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: and then you know you can start, you know, not

1028
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 3: going deep, deep, deep when you're forty, because you know

1029
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: you can start enjoying some of the fruits. Awesome.

1030
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: You're incredible. Thanks, thank you so much for doing this podcast.

1031
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: I know how busy you are.

1032
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: I think absolute pleasure and a flight tomorrow.

1033
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 2: I want you to the other side.

1034
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: Of yeah, flying Italy tomorrow morning. Six am so amazing,

1035
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 3: pretty excited.

1036
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. You're wonderful.

1037
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it and love

1038
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: you very much.

1039
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 2: Love you bye.

1040
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,

1041
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation

1042
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Yamo lollaberry. This potty my word

1043
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love

1044
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rate and comment and of

1045
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: course spread the love.