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Speaker 1: But we have been talking for quite a while now

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Speaker 1: about the concerns around a shortage of nurses following a

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Speaker 1: number of code yellows at Royal Darwin Hospital and the

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Speaker 1: need for additional nurses, and it seems well nurses will

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Speaker 1: be pushing for some changes as the looming EBA negotiations continue.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line to talk further about

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Speaker 1: this is Kath Hatcher, the Branch Secretary of the Nursing

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Speaker 1: and Midwiffree Federation. Good morning to you, Kath.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Kath. You and I have spoken quite a bit in

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Speaker 1: recent months. How are nurses in the territory going at

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Speaker 1: the moment.

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Speaker 2: They're still working hard, They've still got a huge workload

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Speaker 2: and they're still doing overtime and double shifts.

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Speaker 1: And what about at OURDH. I know that again you

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Speaker 1: and I have spoken on a few occasions about those

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Speaker 1: code yellows and about nurses pulling double shifts. How are

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Speaker 1: they going right now?

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Speaker 2: It is getting slightly better. They've had some recruitment through

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Speaker 2: some of the specialty areas and there's more coming over

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Speaker 2: the coming new year. And they've also had a new

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Speaker 2: graduate program entry started in the last four to six weeks,

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Speaker 2: so that's relieved some of the pressure, but that they

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Speaker 2: are up and coming new nurses than midwise, so they

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Speaker 2: need to get their skills. So there is still some

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Speaker 2: skills shortage within some of the areas of will Dale

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Speaker 2: and Palmerston Hospital.

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Speaker 1: And KAS you said there that obviously those graduates that

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Speaker 1: graduate programs made a difference, and there are some other

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Speaker 1: positions which have been filled or some of some of

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Speaker 1: those shortages have been filled. Any idea how many extras

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Speaker 1: have started, because I know that when you and I

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Speaker 1: had spoken on one occasion we had discussed the need

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Speaker 1: for for seventy or even more nurses throughout the two

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Speaker 1: hospitals here in Darwin and even in Central Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So the graduate program that has between

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Speaker 2: two and three intakes per year, they have taken more

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Speaker 2: over this recent months and more starting in January and

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Speaker 2: again in April. And there's approximately I haven't got the

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Speaker 2: figures in front of me, Katie, but approximately eighty starting

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Speaker 2: in January across the territory, right, and then approximately sixty

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Speaker 2: starting in April of new graduates.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's with the new graduate program, the eighty

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Speaker 1: odds starting in January and sixty odds starting in April.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and then there's approximately another twenty skilled in midwives

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Speaker 2: starting in the new year as well. Look at targeting

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Speaker 2: those areas like icued maternity. I said ICEE you I

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Speaker 2: think and nearable intensive unit.

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Speaker 1: That must feel like a bit of reprieve. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: CAB for our very hard working nurses and midwives within

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Speaker 1: the system at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And although this time of the year, you know,

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Speaker 2: people want to take Christmas holidays and some annual leave

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Speaker 2: over this time. Some some that come up for six

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Speaker 2: or eight months leave kind of about in the October November,

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Speaker 2: so there would have been some extra shortfalls happening anyway

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Speaker 2: across the wet season and some annual leave across the

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Speaker 2: December January break. So it will help, but there will

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Speaker 2: be some shortage is still in some areas and.

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Speaker 1: Kath some of our nurses I'm assuming heading out to

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Speaker 1: those various communities at the moment as well as we

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Speaker 1: see the COVID situation chop and change. Obviously, Binjari rock

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Speaker 1: Hole Robinson River was a concern last week in Catherine,

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Speaker 1: and then this week we know that La Jamana is

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Speaker 1: a concern have have we sort of had to see

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Speaker 1: that workforce or some of those nurses head to those

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Speaker 1: different locations.

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Speaker 2: Certainly, you know the swabbing teams and the vaccine teams

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Speaker 2: have headed out into those regions. We haven't heard of

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Speaker 2: any concerns through coming into the office, So we're presuming that,

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Speaker 2: you know, everything's going smoothly.

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Speaker 1: That's good to hear, and you know, hats off to them.

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Speaker 1: I know that they are working incredibly hard. Well, all

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Speaker 1: of our nurses and healthcare professionals Allied Health working incredibly hard.

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Speaker 1: But particularly then when something like that happens, it does

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Speaker 1: mean that there's a bit of a surge.

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Speaker 2: I would assume, Yeah, absolutely, they are working every day.

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Speaker 2: They're working tirelessly and it's never a dull moment and

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Speaker 2: never a quiet moment in any of the work that

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Speaker 2: nurses or midwives do.

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Speaker 1: Kas We know that the enterprise bargaining negotiations are underway

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Speaker 1: for the whole public service. Last week obviously the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister outlined a bonus for public servants. How has that

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Speaker 1: been received by members of the Nursing and midw Free

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Speaker 1: Union and is it actually going to impact them?

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Speaker 2: Well, their enterprise agreement is not on the table at

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Speaker 2: the moment. We have got an extra year three years

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Speaker 2: ago when that came to the table, we actually for

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Speaker 2: the nurses and Midwives agreement got a four year term,

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Speaker 2: so we've got not quite one year left on that.

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Speaker 2: But the general agreement to the public sector is on

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Speaker 2: the table at the moment with others like power and

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Speaker 2: water and Jacana, etc. So this offer of the ten

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars over four years will come into play with

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Speaker 2: the nurses and midwives public sector next year. Of course,

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Speaker 2: we would actually like to see something in the on

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Speaker 2: the table now for the general agreement that looks like

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Speaker 2: percentage wise rather than the ten thousand dollar bonus, So

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Speaker 2: we've asked the Commissioner for Public Employment what the percentage

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Speaker 2: would look like. We haven't received that as yet, but

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Speaker 2: interested to see what an accumulative percentage looks like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean, Kats, you and I have spoken

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Speaker 1: on so many occasions about the need for more nurses.

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Speaker 1: We've also spoken a lot about the very hard work

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Speaker 1: that our nurses and midwives obviously do. And I know

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Speaker 1: that you did say that You're agreement is an extra

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Speaker 1: year unlike the rest of the public service, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: how would nurses feel about not getting a pay increase

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Speaker 1: and only getting a bonus despite their workload increasing a

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Speaker 1: lot by the sounds of it, Well.

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Speaker 2: Not one hundred percent sure on that. We'd have to

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Speaker 2: do a survey which we are going to put out

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Speaker 2: to the nurses and midwife soon about what their log

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Speaker 2: of planes are going to be for the next year

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Speaker 2: at the table, but we would ask that question as well,

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Speaker 2: what they thoughts of our thoughts are in four years time,

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Speaker 2: they're still going to have a base rate pay of

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Speaker 2: exactly the same as what it is now, and that

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Speaker 2: would be the same for the general agreement, and yes

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Speaker 2: they would have an extra ten thousand dollars in their

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Speaker 2: pocket after tax, etc. But we would like to know

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Speaker 2: what our members think. And some that have come verbally

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Speaker 2: back to the office through this General Agreement not happy

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Speaker 2: about a bonus. They would rather see it in a

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Speaker 2: percentage and get it over the fortnight and accumulative over

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Speaker 2: the next four years.

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Speaker 1: And Katz from what I can gather as well, you'd

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Speaker 1: also like to see or they would also like to

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Speaker 1: see some changes when it comes to the ratio of

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Speaker 1: nurses to patients.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so, Queen Plans and Victoria and now ACT have

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Speaker 2: just or ACT have just gone over the line with

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Speaker 2: getting ratios with the government there. But Queenslan and Victoria

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Speaker 2: have had it in place for quite a number of

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Speaker 2: years and we certainly have a number of Queen Plan

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Speaker 2: and Victorian nurses working in the territory and they are

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Speaker 2: asking us to go forth and look at the proposal

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Speaker 2: with ratios. So it would be very interesting to see

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Speaker 2: how nursing ours per patient day would look if it

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Speaker 2: was converted into the ratio perspective, because it would be

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Speaker 2: easier to understand. WA and Tasmania A and MS are

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Speaker 2: also looking at the same concept on how the nursing

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Speaker 2: ours per patient day and the acuity and how that

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Speaker 2: would look towards the patient ratio to nurse and CAS.

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Speaker 1: I know that some listening this morning we'll be wondering

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Speaker 1: what kind of impact do the patient to nurse ratios

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Speaker 1: actually have? What does it mean for a patient who

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Speaker 1: presents at the hospital.

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Speaker 2: So each area, you know, particularly looking at ICU two

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Speaker 2: ed to the wards within the hospitals, so emergency department,

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Speaker 2: each area would have a different ratio or nursing ours

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Speaker 2: per patient day. So if you look in the resuscitation

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Speaker 2: area of ED it be one patient, one nurse, and

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Speaker 2: that would be the same in ICU. And when you

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Speaker 2: look on the wards, the morning to the late shift

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Speaker 2: to the night shift would be all different nursing ours

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Speaker 2: per patient day, and converting that to nurse patient ratio,

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Speaker 2: you could be anywhere from a nurse looking after four

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Speaker 2: patients depending on the high acuity or if they're low acuity,

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Speaker 2: you might have six, six or seven patients to look at,

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Speaker 2: which would be absolutely huge. And then you look at

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Speaker 2: the midward free area, you might have five to six

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Speaker 2: maternity patients to look after the midwives, but some might

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Speaker 2: be pregnant, some might have had their babies, and if

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Speaker 2: you have six women that have had their babies, you

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Speaker 2: could be looking after six babies as well, So technically

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Speaker 2: that would be not six patients, twelve altogether.

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Speaker 1: Well, and presumably it means that for some of our

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Speaker 1: nurses they are absolutely run off their feet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And then when you look at what they

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Speaker 2: need to do for all the patients and medications and

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Speaker 2: observations and all the paperwork that goes with that, you

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Speaker 2: know they would hardly get a morning tea break or

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Speaker 2: an afternoon tea break depending on what shift, and they

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Speaker 2: would be hard struck to get away to have their

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Speaker 2: meal breaks.

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Speaker 1: Well, Kath Hatcher, I really appreciate your time this morning

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Speaker 1: and all the time really that you've given us over

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Speaker 1: the last last couple of months. I think it's imperative welcome.

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Speaker 1: You know that our nurses and our midwives and all

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Speaker 1: of our healthcare professionals, we've got to make sure that

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Speaker 1: there's enough of them and that they've got those conditions

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Speaker 1: so that they're able to care for patients to the

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Speaker 1: best of their ability.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, because it affects us alcating in the community and

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Speaker 2: when we're going in to have our care, we want

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Speaker 2: the best care possible.

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Speaker 1: Kath Hatcher, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for your time.

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Speaker 2: You're very welcome. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's Kath Hatcher there, the Branch secretary with the Australian

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Speaker 1: Nursing and Midwiffery Federation eight nine four one