Speaker 1: This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
Speaker 1: welcome back to another episode of Life on Cut.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura, I'm Brittany.
Speaker 1: And today we decided to wear team uniforms. Unfortunately, he
Speaker 1: shouldn't get the memo, you guys.
Speaker 2: Look like you're the cow. I had bad eyesight. I
Speaker 2: would just be floating heads.
Speaker 1: If you are watching this on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Yesterday, Brittan I had a discussion in the car where
Speaker 3: I said I don't think I suit beige.
Speaker 2: Well, I regret that because I didn't know you copy
Speaker 2: my outfits. I was like, you can wear beige, you
Speaker 2: do it, do anything. I was like, we've got the
Speaker 2: same coloring. Look at me. So I turned up in
Speaker 2: my outfit the other day that Laura did compliment last
Speaker 2: time I wore this, she.
Speaker 1: Goes, that's a really cute set.
Speaker 2: Well, Laura today in a full beige matching outfit.
Speaker 1: I just want to fee you. No.
Speaker 3: I went into Dish and I bought I just nothing
Speaker 3: fits me anymore, Guys, that fits. I really have like
Speaker 3: every single winter item that I would have worn last year.
Speaker 3: I'm just over the cusp. None of the pants do up.
Speaker 3: Nothing's comfortable, even the things it's stretched. Like everything that
Speaker 3: had an elastic size waistband is now a little bit
Speaker 3: too tight.
Speaker 2: Don't you just pull it down under the belly.
Speaker 1: But they're still too tight, Like my ass has grown.
Speaker 1: Everything's grown.
Speaker 3: My ass and my boobs are growing faster than my
Speaker 3: stomach to be fair. Also so my nipples. My nipples
Speaker 3: are so fucking long.
Speaker 2: Do they get bigger every time?
Speaker 3: They're just well, I think they get longer so the
Speaker 3: baby can find them, you know, phone helm as. Also
Speaker 3: I learned something. I was talking to my sister in law.
Speaker 3: Sorry to start this off with pregnancy shit. I know
Speaker 3: no one cares, but I'll just make it brief. I
Speaker 3: think everyone cares about the size of a nipple. So
Speaker 3: I was talking to my sister in law, who also
Speaker 3: has three kids, and I was saying, how the baby
Speaker 3: is upside down, So the baby's breach currently, which is
Speaker 3: I mean, it's fine, There's still plenty of time for
Speaker 3: it to spend. And she was saying, oh, don't worry
Speaker 3: about it. Like when you've had your third kid, your
Speaker 3: womb is so stretched. She's like, when I went to
Speaker 3: the obstetrician, the obstetrician told me that the baby can
Speaker 3: fully stand.
Speaker 1: Up at this point.
Speaker 3: So I'm just imagining Poppy head up near my heart
Speaker 3: and feet down at the bottom of my servax and
Speaker 3: just standing.
Speaker 2: Up, just planking in the womb. It's weird that you
Speaker 2: already referred to it with a name, Like have we
Speaker 2: spoken about that on the podcast?
Speaker 1: Sorry?
Speaker 3: Everyone, So when we were away in Bali, I beat it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: when we were away in Bali. If you only listen
Speaker 3: to the podcasts and you don't follow socials, you might
Speaker 3: have missed it. We talked about how Matt and I
Speaker 3: had picked a name on like a previous episode, and
Speaker 3: we beat it out because like, I just assumed that
Speaker 3: that's one of those things that you talk to your
Speaker 3: partner about and you make sure if you're like, you know,
Speaker 3: telling everyone.
Speaker 2: Nation he dogs your child, he dogs the kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it turns out that on two doting dads, Matt
Speaker 3: he just needed a headline. He's just kind of casually
Speaker 3: was like, oh, yeah, we're tossing up between two names,
Speaker 3: Poppy and Penny, and Ash said he didn't like Penny
Speaker 3: as much as Poppy, and so Matt was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: us too, We're going with Poppy.
Speaker 1: And that was the whole conversation, he fully docks.
Speaker 2: So one day your child's standing up in the womb
Speaker 2: is protesting you get me out of here.
Speaker 1: But I think we've changed the middle name.
Speaker 2: Don't dogs that as well?
Speaker 4: Keep something a secret, now get us a headlines. We
Speaker 4: were we were going to call her Poppy Bell Johnson.
Speaker 3: That is cute, though, Pop and Marley and Laula had
Speaker 3: picked the middle name because they really like Disney. But
Speaker 3: we're not going to tell her that. But we think
Speaker 3: we're going to change the middle name just to really.
Speaker 4: Bell does sound a lot like a flower, it doesn't
Speaker 4: They like flowers called bells Google, I think that they're
Speaker 4: both a flower.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they're called No. One cares to the Mission
Speaker 2: Bells or the Californian Poppy.
Speaker 1: Sweet.
Speaker 2: You're good as long as the middle name is of
Speaker 2: California or Mission or Mission don't know, you're good.
Speaker 3: Something we do need to talk about, which is far
Speaker 3: more exciting, is.
Speaker 2: D d career. I do have a new career. I
Speaker 2: am going on tour as a dancer.
Speaker 1: You were amazing, Okay, so.
Speaker 2: You always have to say that you always have to
Speaker 2: be my biggest of all. You don't have to be
Speaker 2: there have been times in you haven't my marriage to Ben.
Speaker 1: When I met Ben, No, the marriage was so sorry don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I hoped up with Ben. Yeah it was the
Speaker 1: early days years ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll just scoop us.
Speaker 4: I was not supportive of you, just not, and I'm
Speaker 4: still willing to stand by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah all loll caino. Actually, there's a whole lot list
Speaker 2: of things you guys haven't been supportive of.
Speaker 1: We do love you though, so much, nice comfortely.
Speaker 3: So BRIT's on Dancing with the Stars currently, and it's
Speaker 3: such like nice full circle thing. I feel like, so
Speaker 3: Matt did it first, then I purely did it in
Speaker 3: protest so that I could you have some time to myself.
Speaker 1: And then now Britt.
Speaker 2: Has trailed along.
Speaker 3: But you you are by far the best, Like it
Speaker 3: is insane how good you are at this. And like
Speaker 3: Keisha and I went and watched a couple of the
Speaker 3: shows in real life and kind of everything was pre recorded.
Speaker 1: I don't ef we're allowed to say that.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think it's all out there because you
Speaker 2: post about it at the time. So the way it's
Speaker 2: done is it is recorded in advance with a live audience.
Speaker 2: Because a lot of people have been writing saying I
Speaker 2: thought it was live. It is like you were dancing.
Speaker 2: Everything is like you get one shot. The live audience
Speaker 2: is there, they can put their votes in the judges
Speaker 2: score you, but the end of the show will be
Speaker 2: a live audience vote. Like when we're talking about finale
Speaker 2: deciding the winner that is live to Australia.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so what you mean is is like it's filmed live,
Speaker 3: it just doesn't show on air live. And like with
Speaker 3: the finale, I don't know if your season's the same,
Speaker 3: but when we did it, they film multiple endings, so
Speaker 3: they film if there's a possibility that you're going to win.
Speaker 3: They did the same thing with I'm a Celebrity with
Speaker 3: the last three contestants. Every contestant does like a WHOA,
Speaker 3: I won, but you actually don't find out until the
Speaker 3: night that it airs on TV whether you actually did
Speaker 3: win or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exactly the same thing. They film multiple endings again,
Speaker 2: so no one on the show knows who won, and like,
Speaker 2: no one's faking it when they say that, like, no
Speaker 2: one actually knows. So you do your dances, you know
Speaker 2: how you go week to week, but no one knows
Speaker 2: what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is interesting.
Speaker 2: Because for all of those shows, I'm a celebrity, dancing, bachelor, bachelorette,
Speaker 2: you can bet on them on sports bet and things
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: It's different. You do know if you've won or not.
Speaker 2: They don't in the sense of when money is involved,
Speaker 2: when you can bet on something, they can't rig the ending.
Speaker 2: So a lot of people think these things are rigged,
Speaker 2: and maybe they're you know, maybe they're pushed in a direction,
Speaker 2: or they're encouraging an audience to go one way, or
Speaker 2: we know there's manipulation and storylines in.
Speaker 1: All of those reality shows.
Speaker 2: But when it comes down to the actual finale in
Speaker 2: the end and a winner, when there is money involved
Speaker 2: in any capacity like sports bet, you can't fake it,
Speaker 2: like they have a legal obligation. I thought it was
Speaker 2: because they donated money. I thought it's because.
Speaker 4: There's like a big cash prize that they give to
Speaker 4: a charity as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, okay, but if there's anything any money related
Speaker 2: in any capacity, so whether it is a charitable donation
Speaker 2: or whether it is sports bet and people are putting
Speaker 2: money on it, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Interesting because that was something really interesting for me to
Speaker 4: learn it, Like I've been in media for a long
Speaker 4: time before I actually realized, because you know how everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's also rigged. It's all set up from the start,
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, like you know, they all know who's
Speaker 4: going to win. And I found out that when there's
Speaker 4: a lot of money involved in terms of like gifting
Speaker 4: it same as I'm as elebe dancing was the same,
Speaker 4: they can't do that. They actually have to go off
Speaker 4: of the audience votes. It's like a legal obligation in
Speaker 4: Australia that they have to do it based off of
Speaker 4: what actually comes in as a winner.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The way that they can curate a result though is
Speaker 3: through the Edits so encouraging the people who are watching
Speaker 3: to vote in certain ways based on the way people
Speaker 3: are shown on the show, so they can they can
Speaker 3: definitely massage it in a direction, but they can't manipulate
Speaker 3: the votes once the votes come in. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is kind of a bit of a blanket statement across
Speaker 3: free to air TV in general. At the moment, reality
Speaker 3: TV in Australia used to be live. It used to
Speaker 3: be a huge event that you know, we would all
Speaker 3: go home after school or after union whatever, you're doing work,
Speaker 3: sit down at the family and watch the finales of
Speaker 3: these massive shows, and they garnered enormous audiences in the millions.
Speaker 3: That's just simply not the case anymore. The opportunity of
Speaker 3: choice when it comes to like streaming and everything else
Speaker 3: has meant that there's not as much money and free
Speaker 3: to AIRTV. There's certainly not as much money in reality
Speaker 3: and live TV, and live TV is so expensive to create,
Speaker 3: so filming these multiple endings means that the production costs
Speaker 3: can be reduced. And that's why I mean, even with
Speaker 3: I'm a Celeb, I think they saved so much money
Speaker 3: by doing multiple endings rather than having them over in
Speaker 3: Africa for several more days.
Speaker 2: And it's not even just that, it's also it's quite fascinating,
Speaker 2: but it's also the TV timeline schedule through a year,
Speaker 2: so everybody knows when they want. When I say everybody,
Speaker 2: every show or network or station they know when they
Speaker 2: hope to have their show go live because it has
Speaker 2: to go live against other networks. What arether shows they're
Speaker 2: going to be up against? When is there a free
Speaker 2: period in time slots for twelve weeks of TV? That
Speaker 2: doesn't always coincide with having literally a Dancing with the
Speaker 2: Star's Disney studio available to film, So there's a lot
Speaker 2: of it's actually logistically so hard to film and air
Speaker 2: shows like that, especially live, and I think that was
Speaker 2: a big thing with dancing now. It was really hard
Speaker 2: to find this spaces. You need all the studio spaces
Speaker 2: for weeks for these couples to be practicing. You need
Speaker 2: Disney studios to be free for all this time for
Speaker 2: the production. It doesn't coincide with them when they want
Speaker 2: things to air, and I now I'm in that world.
Speaker 2: I totally understand it. But then I understand why it's
Speaker 2: difficult for the audience to watch and understand because people
Speaker 2: want live. People miss that, And I think it's really
Speaker 2: cool to be live. If it would be live, it'd
Speaker 2: be amazing, Like some of the things that did go
Speaker 2: down on the show would have been amazing live.
Speaker 1: And you know that they're going to get edited out
Speaker 1: and you know that they're not.
Speaker 2: Going to make the cut, and I wish one day
Speaker 2: we can talk about it, but we probably can't. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so I think it's a fascinating look from the outside
Speaker 2: in it the way that the TV world.
Speaker 3: Works but what was that like for you watching the
Speaker 3: episode and seeing because when you're doing it, it always feels
Speaker 3: different when you actually get to watch it on screen.
Speaker 2: I've been on a real rollercoaster with how I feel
Speaker 2: about it. And I was messaging so craiging my Dan's
Speaker 2: partner lives in Melbourne, so like we were texting. I
Speaker 2: felt really good in the couple of days before I
Speaker 2: did it, and I was like, Okay, I know this
Speaker 2: inside out.
Speaker 1: I've got it.
Speaker 2: Then when I did it the dance on the night,
Speaker 2: I was like, this is a disaster. Like I felt
Speaker 2: like I missteps, It felt like I was slow, I
Speaker 2: was out of time. And if you watched it, I
Speaker 2: briefly mentioned this, but you get to do a practice run,
Speaker 2: which is what a practice run for you, but it's
Speaker 2: a full dress rehearsal. They have the lights going off
Speaker 2: and they want you to feel what it's like so
Speaker 2: that you can just nail it. They also need to
Speaker 2: see what it's going to look like. And in the
Speaker 2: dress rehearsal before I had so many disasters. I got
Speaker 2: extra runs because my outfit kept coming off, my heel
Speaker 2: was getting caught in my skirt. It was like ripping
Speaker 2: it down to the ground. I couldn't get through the
Speaker 2: dance without my skirt coming off because it just wasn't
Speaker 2: made right, which is why they do it. And it
Speaker 2: just rocked my confidence when I went out there, because
Speaker 2: all I could think about was my clothes coming off
Speaker 2: in the middle of the.
Speaker 4: Death Can I tell you though, because I was there
Speaker 4: and that whole experience was actually quite It was so
Speaker 4: interesting to me because obviously we went to yours, Laura,
Speaker 4: but yours was at a different venue. Going into Disney
Speaker 4: Studios like a bit of behind the scenes. We were
Speaker 4: walking to come and see you perform, and it was
Speaker 4: all ticketed and you had to get all these things
Speaker 4: checked off and blah blah blah. And as we're walking through,
Speaker 4: I took a selfie of all of us to send
Speaker 4: to you to be like, we're here, can't wait.
Speaker 1: To see you.
Speaker 4: The security came over to me and they were like,
Speaker 4: you cannot take any photos here.
Speaker 2: You must remove that. They made me go into my recently.
Speaker 4: Deleted and delete it from there as well, and I
Speaker 4: was like, don't look at all the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep scrolling pop.
Speaker 4: It was so strange, like the whole process behind TV
Speaker 4: production was really different to when we went to go
Speaker 4: and see Laura. But every single one of us that
Speaker 4: were there to watch you, and all of the crowd
Speaker 4: as well, because we were on the family and friend's side,
Speaker 4: so we don't get to vote for who we want
Speaker 4: to do well because it would be very biased for
Speaker 4: obvious reasons. But we kind of got to speak to
Speaker 4: some of the other family and friends and all of
Speaker 4: us were like, she did so well.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she was so good.
Speaker 4: And I was really confused because at the time I
Speaker 4: could see that you were like you were a bit rattled.
Speaker 4: I could say that you were a bit like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, I did it so much better in practice,
Speaker 4: and I was like, what is she talking about.
Speaker 2: She's so good. It's different because you're not a professional
Speaker 2: dance like me. Well, so you didn't get to see
Speaker 2: the steps. Well, well, well I went.
Speaker 4: I think it was like a week later because I
Speaker 4: went to three of the filmings. Once I saw you
Speaker 4: dance the second time, I don't know if I'm Lola,
Speaker 4: I'm like giving a little bit away. I was blown away,
Speaker 4: and I was like, oh, this makes sense why she
Speaker 4: thought she was shit in.
Speaker 2: The first one.
Speaker 1: You also don't want to peak too early.
Speaker 3: I went so as well, and she was so good, Like,
Speaker 3: let's get that mirror, bor girlfriend, hast everyone tune in
Speaker 3: Sunday nights. It's happening.
Speaker 2: So I did the dance, and I was hard on myself, right,
Speaker 2: but I still knew that I did it like pretty well.
Speaker 2: I put the energy and it wasn't any big mistakes.
Speaker 2: I just knew there a few steps. But I also thought,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's night one, like it'll be nice,
Speaker 2: but it'll be fine. How far out man? They came
Speaker 2: down on me a lead balloon. Everyone else was pretty nice,
Speaker 2: but I have listened to this.
Speaker 5: For me, you looked like you were drunk and lost
Speaker 5: to the party. I'm afraid, darling. Every spin you weren't spotting.
Speaker 5: There was very stiff. There was no hip action because
Speaker 5: of that. It was too upright, and as Sean said,
Speaker 5: your weight was too far back. You need to point
Speaker 5: your feet in lifts, my darling, if you're going to
Speaker 5: do them, you don't want to clumpy foot. But I
Speaker 5: have to say I loved the amount of energy you
Speaker 5: gave us and we can see the commitment that.
Speaker 1: But you got to laugh like.
Speaker 2: I did, do a bit of a shit sandwich.
Speaker 4: He gave you a compliment at the very end, but
Speaker 4: your face in that moment.
Speaker 2: I know that you posted this and it was like
Speaker 2: slowed down, But do you see being like totally yeah,
Speaker 2: but I had If you watch it, if you haven't
Speaker 2: watched it, have a look. I put that dance on
Speaker 2: my Instagram. But I had so much fun, Like I
Speaker 2: couldn't get the smile off my face. And that's what
Speaker 2: I've got to remember going through this. I was going
Speaker 2: to remember that at the time, I was having the
Speaker 2: time of my life.
Speaker 4: I don't think there was anyone who had a better
Speaker 4: time on Dancing with the Stars than Laura Burn though,
Speaker 4: like that smile on.
Speaker 2: Your face, it was a bit manic. I've never said anything,
Speaker 2: even on your wedding day.
Speaker 1: I seriously look like I to psychedelics when I was on.
Speaker 2: Dancing because and you'll know, Laura, this is why, right
Speaker 2: they tell you that, like if you think you're leaning
Speaker 2: into the feeling, because you've got to feel the dance
Speaker 2: if it's serious, it's serious, sexy, romantic, romantic, happy, whatever.
Speaker 2: But they're like, you've got to do that feeling on
Speaker 2: steroids to get it across on TV. It's like Ott,
Speaker 2: but I think Laura took that a little too far.
Speaker 3: No, to be honest, And in my defense, I actually
Speaker 3: did have the time in my life, and I think
Speaker 3: the reason for that is because, I mean I probably
Speaker 3: talked about it before. I was so in my head
Speaker 3: when we did Bachelor, Like, I did not enjoy the
Speaker 3: experience at all, even though now I look back on
Speaker 3: it and I can see that there were so many
Speaker 3: things about that experience that were just absolutely insane, so wonderful. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I wish I could go back and do it again
Speaker 3: and not have been so negative about it the whole time.
Speaker 3: So obviously now easy to say that it was a
Speaker 3: great outcome. But I really went into doing Dancing with
Speaker 3: the Stars because I've only done the two reality shows
Speaker 3: that I went into that experience and I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't care what happens. I'm just here to have
Speaker 3: a good time. I'm not a professional dancer. I don't
Speaker 3: care if I suck, but I will care if I
Speaker 3: am so hard on myself. And then I look back
Speaker 3: on another experience and I didn't enjoy it because I
Speaker 3: couldn't just like see the joy and the fun in it.
Speaker 3: And it really changed my mindset around it, and I
Speaker 3: had so much fun. And that was the one thing
Speaker 3: I kept saying to you, Britt, I was like, please
Speaker 3: just enjoy it, because you will regret not if you,
Speaker 3: you know, six months time when it's all over and
Speaker 3: you wake up and you're like, oh, that was so hard.
Speaker 3: And I've kind of fucking hated that I didn't just
Speaker 3: appreciate what it was in the time.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I'm a bit of a reality TV
Speaker 2: e vet now definitely done the rounds, So I think
Speaker 2: it is anything else left?
Speaker 1: I haven't it?
Speaker 2: Is there?
Speaker 1: Come? You've got a prenovation show the block? Oh what
Speaker 1: else is there?
Speaker 2: Block?
Speaker 4: I've seen you put flat pack furniture together. You'd be terrible, naked, afraid.
Speaker 1: Or naked it alone? What was on we were talking
Speaker 1: about just before.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of potential, Kisha, I have a
Speaker 2: lot of potential. No, there's hips the stuff I haven't done.
Speaker 2: I'm joking, but I also have done a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: I love reality I love it. But what I feel
Speaker 2: like that has given me a gift because now I
Speaker 2: genuinely don't care. I just go in and like, I
Speaker 2: gave this show more than I've given it any other
Speaker 2: show like it was completely unfiltered me. It was every
Speaker 2: ounce of energy and dedication I could have. I think
Speaker 2: I trained longer and harder than I don't want to
Speaker 2: say that anyone in there, but I'm pretty sure I
Speaker 2: did because I was still working full time jobs. Everyone
Speaker 2: else had time off their work. But I just was like,
Speaker 2: if I'm gonna do this, I'm just gonna leave it
Speaker 2: all out there on the dance floor. I'm gonna leave
Speaker 2: those sparkles and sequence out on the dance floor. And
Speaker 2: I think that's just so good. I don't expect. I
Speaker 2: wasn't expecting. I don't want anyone. Keisha and Laura are
Speaker 2: obviously my biggest supports. They are possibly making me sound
Speaker 2: better than I am. I don't want anyone to think
Speaker 2: that I'm gonna go ahead and be a superstar. But
Speaker 2: what I will say is like I fucking tried so hard.
Speaker 3: All I have to say is watch out, Bindi Irwin,
Speaker 3: because next you're gonna be on like Strictly Dancing or
Speaker 3: whatever it is in the state and take me.
Speaker 2: But Bob Irwin's on it now, like he's literally over there.
Speaker 2: He just bypassed Australia. Your straight to America.
Speaker 3: It's on Sunday nights for anyone who wants to watch it,
Speaker 3: and this coming Sunday because so Britt will't be on
Speaker 3: every rotating week every second week to start with, because
Speaker 3: they kind of split them into group A Group B.
Speaker 2: It's really edging us, I know, not.
Speaker 1: To get a bit more of the Brit.
Speaker 3: But Osha is on this week, and I really want
Speaker 3: to see that as well.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm yeah, I feel I've really invested
Speaker 1: in it. I really want to see Osha dance.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So interestingly, OSHA's partner is my partner's fiance, so
Speaker 2: there's like a real competition. Like so funny. When we
Speaker 2: first started dancing the training, Osha was in like down
Speaker 2: the hallway from us, because you get put in studios,
Speaker 2: but you're not supposed to speak to each other. You're
Speaker 2: not supposed to look at each other. And we, like
Speaker 2: Osha and I've seen each other loads over the years
Speaker 2: he's been on the podcast, but I never really asked
Speaker 2: him this. We ran into each other in the corridor
Speaker 2: and I was like, look, we're gonna be working together
Speaker 2: here for a little while. I was like, let's just
Speaker 2: set the record straight. He goes here we go. I
Speaker 2: was like, did you or did you not know? I
Speaker 2: was like, I couldn't care less. I'm married, it's been
Speaker 2: I don't care, but just let me know. And he said,
Speaker 2: I swear to god, I didn't know. He didn't know
Speaker 2: that I was gonna get dumped by the honey Badger
Speaker 2: at the end, because it was there was a bit
Speaker 2: of an assumption that like, there's no way the honey
Speaker 2: Badger could have not told any of the production or.
Speaker 3: No, they didn't know. They didn't know. I don't even
Speaker 3: think that his management knew anyway. Moving a lot a
Speaker 3: big discussion we've been having here of the last couple
Speaker 3: of days, and it is something that has been playing
Speaker 3: out hugely across socials recently.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys would have seen it.
Speaker 3: But it's a question would online trolls troll less if
Speaker 3: they couldn't do it under a cloak of anonymity. This
Speaker 3: comes off the back of Indy Clinton being handed a
Speaker 3: sixty four page document that outlines all of the trolls
Speaker 3: that have been harassing her for years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you don't know who Indy Clinton is,
Speaker 2: she is a huge content creator. She's got a really
Speaker 2: big audience on TikTok, a couple of million. She is
Speaker 2: really into the mum content. She got three little kids.
Speaker 2: She won TikTok Content Creator of the Year in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, she hosted last year, and she's very, very
Speaker 2: big in that space.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess a little bit more contact on
Speaker 3: her as well. Is like she was known as being
Speaker 3: like this very unfiltered mummy blogger, just exposing She's very young,
Speaker 3: she's only in her like, you know, mid twenties now,
Speaker 3: and she had three babies back to back, and so
Speaker 3: she had this like chaotic, unfiltered life that would play
Speaker 3: out on TikTok. Now more recently she's come into the
Speaker 3: headlines because she had some plastic surgery, she had a
Speaker 3: nose job, and the Internet was really fucking angry about it,
Speaker 3: and she ended up having to have some time off
Speaker 3: socials because of how horrible the trolling was that she's received.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we never even spoke about that aspect. But the
Speaker 2: thing that I think is really important to note here
Speaker 2: is too, is she was really open about that whole thing.
Speaker 2: She documented the whole thing. It's not like she like
Speaker 2: snuck away and tried to pretend nothing happened and said, oh,
Speaker 2: I just use skincare, and you know, this is my Facebook.
Speaker 2: She was really open and documented it and the trolling
Speaker 2: she got off the back of it. People weren't angry
Speaker 2: that she got plastic surgery as such. People were angry
Speaker 2: because they didn't like her appearance. They thought she got
Speaker 2: the wrong kind of nose job or there was so
Speaker 2: brutally horrifically mean about her appearance.
Speaker 3: More so than anything, the commentary that she receives would
Speaker 3: be unrelenting, like when you've got millions of followers. But
Speaker 3: she said that people loved her when she was just
Speaker 3: a hot mess, when she was the most depressed that
Speaker 3: she's ever been, in the trenches of motherhood. And she said,
Speaker 3: and now that she's coming out of that, she's got
Speaker 3: time for herself. She's exercising, she's really proud of the
Speaker 3: way she looks and her body. And then she's also
Speaker 3: gone and had this plastic surgery done. She's like people
Speaker 3: have started to hate her. That's how it feels online
Speaker 3: that people hate that she's no longer suffering and that
Speaker 3: she's enjoying the person that she is and stepping into
Speaker 3: herself again. Now going back to this sixty four page report,
Speaker 3: this is the outcome of enlisting a private investigator who
Speaker 3: was spent three months getting the information of the trolls
Speaker 3: who have been harassing her for some of the months,
Speaker 3: some of them years. These trolls, and this is the problem, right,
Speaker 3: Like we have an understanding or a thought that like
Speaker 3: trolls just these people who sit in the basement writing
Speaker 3: awful things who have really depressing, awful lives. But what
Speaker 3: she's discovered is that it is quite a few mums
Speaker 3: themselves who are doing this. A lot of these women
Speaker 3: who are trolling her and have been harassing her for
Speaker 3: years actually live in Melbourne. She said that she has
Speaker 3: so much information around them that she knows the hospitals
Speaker 3: that they were born in, She knows the names of
Speaker 3: their gynecologists. Have a little listen to this.
Speaker 2: I literally know every detail, down to your ABN and
Speaker 2: down to where you gave birth at Francis Parry.
Speaker 1: Hospital, even to your gynecologists.
Speaker 2: Another beautiful troll of mine, you regret your evil eye
Speaker 2: teto you got when you were eighteen.
Speaker 1: You know what I regret a tatoo I got when
Speaker 1: I was eighteen two.
Speaker 2: I have a moon, but I feel like with an
Speaker 2: evil eye, it's meant to look after you.
Speaker 1: But I guess if you're trolling, it's not going to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's been a huge outpouring online from other influences who
Speaker 3: have probably experienced very similar things but have never known
Speaker 3: or been able to do anything about it because for
Speaker 3: so long, these trolls and people who write horrible comments
Speaker 3: have been able to get away with it because nobody
Speaker 3: knows who their identity is the fact that she has.
Speaker 2: Made the statement that she now has information of who
Speaker 2: the trolls are, but she isn't going to release it
Speaker 2: publicly has also caused quite a controversial stir online because
Speaker 2: a lot of people are saying, well, why do they
Speaker 2: deserve the anonymity now that you know, like they've spent
Speaker 2: years trolling, you dos them put their information out? You know,
Speaker 2: like as in like pay it back? Personally, I quite
Speaker 2: like that she's taking the higher road, and she is
Speaker 2: saying I'm going to take the higher road. It would
Speaker 2: be quite contradictory of her to then go and dox
Speaker 2: these people to two million people of her followers, like
Speaker 2: that is going to cause an onslaught of people to
Speaker 2: go to these whoever they are that she has said
Speaker 2: that a lot of them are like mums from Melbourne
Speaker 2: for example. Do I think she's going to do something
Speaker 2: with this information. Absolutely, I think she is going to
Speaker 2: take a private road. I'm sure she is going to
Speaker 2: get her lawyers to send cease and desist to them privately.
Speaker 2: I'm sure she's going to threaten legal action to them
Speaker 2: privately in hopes that it stops. She hasn't on this
Speaker 2: for no reason, but it will be interesting to see
Speaker 2: if she ends up taking any of them to court. Personally,
Speaker 2: I like that she isn't going to go and rinse
Speaker 2: every single one of them. On to her two million followers.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we all have kind of slightly different opinions
Speaker 3: on this, and like I think we can get into
Speaker 3: the conversations around like what are the consequences for being
Speaker 3: a troll online? But the reason why we wanted to
Speaker 3: talk about this We know that India's being covered quite
Speaker 3: a bit in the last couple of days and I'm
Speaker 3: sure a lot of you are across what has happened there.
Speaker 3: But this has also come at the same time as
Speaker 3: another very big movement in terms of online trolling. So
Speaker 3: there is a website that up until recently I did
Speaker 3: not even know exists, and then we talked about whether
Speaker 3: or not we should even shine a light on it,
Speaker 3: whether it was just pointing I guess like more eyes
Speaker 3: towards a website that really is like not worth the
Speaker 3: fucking space on the Internet that it takes up.
Speaker 2: It's the cesspit of the Internet.
Speaker 1: But it's called tattle or tattle Life.
Speaker 3: So for those of you who don't know what tatle
Speaker 3: life is, it's an online gossip forum and it has
Speaker 3: literally aless threads featuring any influencer that you can think of.
Speaker 3: There's a very big portion of it that's UK based.
Speaker 3: But the reason why it was originally created is it
Speaker 3: was created as a way to try and keep influencers
Speaker 3: responsible in a very unregulated space. So for influencers who
Speaker 3: were monetizing their content, maybe they were using their children
Speaker 3: online in their content as well. It was a place
Speaker 3: for kind of like vigilantes, I guess, to get together
Speaker 3: and talk about the problematic nature of it. Now I
Speaker 3: would say it's very much regressed from that. And because itself,
Speaker 3: tadle Life is highly unregulated, it really is just a
Speaker 3: cesspool of people's nasty comments and nasty trolling.
Speaker 2: I just think we're even being too nice. It's fucking
Speaker 2: disgusting and abysmal and should not exist. Like it is
Speaker 2: the worst place you could go to on the internet.
Speaker 2: It is horrific, it's malicious, it's fabricated, it's not real.
Speaker 2: There's death threats, there's do scene and it has always
Speaker 2: been run by one anonymous person. Don't know if it
Speaker 2: was a man a woman, what they did, who they were,
Speaker 2: their age.
Speaker 3: Interestingly, the person who had been running it and creating
Speaker 3: it was under the pseudonym of a female, and I
Speaker 3: think because women also have this, like there's this expectation
Speaker 3: that women are the ones who gossip, right, So it
Speaker 3: just kind of made sense that it was a female
Speaker 3: behind Tadle Life. The person who created it is actually
Speaker 3: a man. His name is Bashton Durwood, and he himself
Speaker 3: was an influencer and a content creator. He's the owner
Speaker 3: of a company called Nest and Glow.
Speaker 2: He's a vegan and vegan like vegans, vegan vegan, but
Speaker 2: vegans always really I should say always, they're not but
Speaker 2: like you think that they're really good people and they're not.
Speaker 2: He's the ultimate sorry vegans are He's the ultimate troll.
Speaker 3: The reason why his identity has become known is because
Speaker 3: there is a couple in Ireland, Neil and Donna Sans
Speaker 3: Now they have been the victims of this online trolling
Speaker 3: and abuse because of Tattle four years. This has been
Speaker 3: a three year court case that's finally resulted in not
Speaker 3: just his identity being unmasked, but he's being charged with
Speaker 3: three hundred thousand pound in payments towards him and also
Speaker 3: paying all of their legal.
Speaker 1: Fees, which is a huge amount of huge sum as well.
Speaker 3: Now the king of anonymity has been unveiled and from
Speaker 3: there it is going to filter down. And one of
Speaker 3: the things that the judge said, a day of reckoning
Speaker 3: will come for those behind tatle Life and for all
Speaker 3: of those individuals who post it.
Speaker 1: On tatle life and contributed to it.
Speaker 4: I love this and I think for anyone who follows
Speaker 4: any type of influencer around the world. Over the weekend
Speaker 4: there was this real collective strength in people posting. Whether
Speaker 4: it was Australian people saying well done Indie, you're going
Speaker 4: after these trolls, whether it was people from the UK
Speaker 4: who had been quite literally abused because of this tatle
Speaker 4: life website. They were all just coming out being like, good,
Speaker 4: finally we are taking back.
Speaker 2: A little bit of power.
Speaker 4: There's a particular woman by the name of Carolyne hearns Now.
Speaker 4: She was a victim of tattle Life, this UK based website.
Speaker 4: She's fifty five years old. She's an aesthetician and beauty writer.
Speaker 4: She's actually been labeled as Britain's most powerful beauty expert.
Speaker 4: She's got a huge following. It's seven hundred and eighty
Speaker 4: three thousand followers On Instagram. She posted a whole set
Speaker 4: of stories about, you know, the unveiling of the person
Speaker 4: behind taddle Life being this bastion deerwood guy. And it
Speaker 4: was about seven minutes. So I've cut this down just
Speaker 4: to save a little bit of time. But this is
Speaker 4: what she had to say about the whole incident.
Speaker 6: If you have never frequented or been made aware of
Speaker 6: that particular troll site, it was a hate filled demonic
Speaker 6: I mean, you've never known the like. This isn't people
Speaker 6: just saying she's a fat, ugly hoe. That's nothing. That's
Speaker 6: like very twenty ten. This is systemic, persistent, consistent abuse,
Speaker 6: death threats. You've never known anything like it. You wouldn't
Speaker 6: think it existed had you not seen it with your
Speaker 6: own eyes. I mean it was all fabrication. People would
Speaker 6: literally go on there and go I used to work
Speaker 6: with her, and she holds Satanic rituals in the basement
Speaker 6: of her building in Carnby Street, and people go, oh,
Speaker 6: my god, does she We should go and get the police,
Speaker 6: we should stop her. Like you've ever had an office
Speaker 6: in Carnby Street or a basement, or you've ever had
Speaker 6: a Satanic rich Well, this is how ridiculous it was.
Speaker 6: But then it took a twist and they started going
Speaker 6: after children. They only took down the multi, multi double
Speaker 6: digit page threads about deb the bow Babe the day
Speaker 6: she died.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's sick.
Speaker 6: And then they came after my family. They published my
Speaker 6: mortgage deeds, They published private documents that you'd have to
Speaker 6: go into a website to pay to download. They paid
Speaker 6: to download them and then publish them. They posted pictures
Speaker 6: of my granddaughter in my home. These people are vile
Speaker 6: pieces of shit. The other thing is, if you've ever
Speaker 6: been trolled, just take heart and know that it's always
Speaker 6: someone more pathetic and sad than you will ever be.
Speaker 6: And the proof is in the pudding because one of
Speaker 6: the stupid bitches who trolled my family was someone we knew.
Speaker 6: It was clearly by what she'd written, and she was
Speaker 6: easily identifiable a mum from their school. And the reason
Speaker 6: I'm telling you this is because she was the vicar's wife.
Speaker 6: My point is, this isn't people overreacting to like a
Speaker 6: just a basic troll website. What this site did was
Speaker 6: take your life, strip it back to the carcass, put
Speaker 6: every piece of your life online, dissect it to the
Speaker 6: nth degree, slag you off in ways that you didn't
Speaker 6: even know where possible. But know this, if there is
Speaker 6: any way we can find out the posters, I will
Speaker 6: happily out you. I don't give a shit. I will
Speaker 6: go broke if I have to. If I know who
Speaker 6: you are, and it's proven that you are who you are, baby,
Speaker 6: your face is going on my socials. So I just
Speaker 6: want to finish by saying a huge congratulations to Neil
Speaker 6: and Donna Sands who took on Tattle and won whatever
Speaker 6: they need. Help wise, I'm here, We're all here. You've
Speaker 6: fucked with us all for too long. Those of us
Speaker 6: with means. I'm happy to help them in any way
Speaker 6: I can to bring you down. And anyone who's lived
Speaker 6: on that troll site for years, I hope you are
Speaker 6: shitting yourself. I hope you are. I hope you have
Speaker 6: the rest of you had a lovely weekend, because I'm
Speaker 6: going to sleep with bells on my toes.
Speaker 2: Bless sir. And this is a good thing, right, She's
Speaker 2: absolutely minted, this woman because she's so successful, and she's like,
Speaker 2: fucking be afraid because I'm going to bring you down.
Speaker 3: This is the problem though, right, Like the thing is,
Speaker 3: these are people who have the resources to do something
Speaker 3: about it. And I think that that's something that Indy
Speaker 3: Clinton has proven, Like she has the money, she has
Speaker 3: the ability, she has the time, and she hired a
Speaker 3: PI investigator for three fucking months to go after these people,
Speaker 3: and she's able to do something about it, whereas for
Speaker 3: so long, I think so many people just thought, oh, well,
Speaker 3: we can say these things.
Speaker 1: It's my opinion, I get away with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think this is where the conversation becomes
Speaker 2: even more interesting, is there's a lot of people that
Speaker 2: are saying, well, you know, you're in the public eye.
Speaker 2: You chose this life. This is part and parcel. You
Speaker 2: shouldn't be so offended if someone has a difference in
Speaker 2: opinion to you. That's not what this is. And Carolyn
Speaker 2: really specified that there. She really honed down on exactly
Speaker 2: what specifically Tattle is. It is not someone having a
Speaker 2: difference in opinion. It is not just your average troll site,
Speaker 2: which is bad enough, or your average troll comment. It
Speaker 2: takes it to another level where they are out in
Speaker 2: your addresses, your mortgage, personal details, your children, your grandchildren,
Speaker 2: the schools they go to. There was one woman in
Speaker 2: relation to Tattle who had only ever made five hundred
Speaker 2: pound on Instagram, Like she wasn't an influence. That was
Speaker 2: raking in millions of dollars, which is what the sole
Speaker 2: purpose of title said. It was right, so that's like
Speaker 2: a thousand australlion dollars. Ever, she was pregnant. She was
Speaker 2: completely doxsed. She wrote to Tattle and she said, hey, like,
Speaker 2: I'm scared for myself and my unborn child. I think
Speaker 2: someone's going to break into my house and kill us.
Speaker 2: She had to take a week off to deal with
Speaker 2: the anxiety. Please take this thread down, saying where I live.
Speaker 2: The people that are hating me in send me death threats,
Speaker 2: and they didn't. And of course, if you're in the
Speaker 2: public eye, you are always going to be open, and
Speaker 2: you should welcome constructive criticism. You should welcome a different
Speaker 2: sce in opinion. You should be able to have those
Speaker 2: conversations if that's all it is. But this is not.
Speaker 2: This is that on steroids.
Speaker 4: I just think what is so fascinating to me is
Speaker 4: that for so long, and I've seen you guys both
Speaker 4: with it independently and together through our work, people have
Speaker 4: just been able to get away with whatever the fuck
Speaker 4: they want to say online and they can have twelve
Speaker 4: different Instagram accounts. It's completely anonymous, you can't trace it back,
Speaker 4: and it's kind of just been to put your hands
Speaker 4: in the air and go, oh, well, well, what can
Speaker 4: we do. I love the fact that now, with technology
Speaker 4: the way that it is, and people who have the
Speaker 4: money and the resources, they're actually able to do something
Speaker 4: about this, because it's just been such a consequence free,
Speaker 4: awful thing that so many people have had to deal
Speaker 4: with for years. And like Carolyn said, this is not
Speaker 4: just oh you're an ugly person or I don't like
Speaker 4: that outfit.
Speaker 3: Which that does exist on there as well, And that's
Speaker 3: not what we're talking. Like, we know that there are
Speaker 3: forums out there that just says mean things, and like
Speaker 3: I could not care less about that. It's not nice,
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that it's okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to like my wedding dress. You
Speaker 2: can tell me I look stuga whatever.
Speaker 4: But do you think that people would say as many
Speaker 4: of these things, even like the whole vast range that
Speaker 4: goes from just saying a mean comment to saying something
Speaker 4: that is completely you know, illegal or doxing, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, there's a whole variety of things.
Speaker 2: Do you think that they would do it if there
Speaker 2: was a chance.
Speaker 4: That they could be caught out, that they could be
Speaker 4: traced back to who they are, and that could be
Speaker 4: exposed to the people in their lives, People would be
Speaker 4: way more considerate with what they actually write.
Speaker 3: The reason why people are able to write whatever the
Speaker 3: fuck they want with the level of venom is because
Speaker 3: there's no consequences. And I think, you know, if there's
Speaker 3: the possibility that's going to get sent to your work
Speaker 3: or it's going to get sent to your family members,
Speaker 3: like imagine finding out that your auntie spends her fucking
Speaker 3: every second night on a website bitching about some influencer
Speaker 3: online who she doesn't know what a los are.
Speaker 2: Imagine finding out your partner did.
Speaker 1: You would be so embarrassed to know these people.
Speaker 2: They are the people that's justus a dad. No, but
Speaker 2: he's a dad and an influencer and a normal person
Speaker 2: and a chef, and he makes money off it, and
Speaker 2: he's a vegan and he's all fucking but I'm just
Speaker 2: listening what he is. But that's what I'm saying. They're
Speaker 2: the people that you don't expect, do you know. It's
Speaker 2: like they often say, it's people in your world, your sphere,
Speaker 2: or your realm that you might have worked with or
Speaker 2: worked in the same spaces or have a similarity, and
Speaker 2: similarity is in terms of like maybe you're all mothers,
Speaker 2: Like it's other mothers trolling mothers. It's people in that world.
Speaker 2: Do we think this is going to change anything? And
Speaker 2: that is the big question. I would love to see
Speaker 2: more people doing this, more people being able to take
Speaker 2: action and find the funds to go down this track.
Speaker 2: But this was the fact there's a three year lawsuit, Yeah,
Speaker 2: with millions of dollars that people don't have, and like,
Speaker 2: let's be honest, Laura and I have experienced this, like
Speaker 2: Keisha said, We've experienced this so many times with completely fabricated,
Speaker 2: malicious stories, Like there have been things written and said
Speaker 2: about Laura and myself that we look at each other
Speaker 2: and we're like, where did they even get that from?
Speaker 2: And they're defaming They are horrific. Laura and I have
Speaker 2: sought legal action before, we have sought counsel. We've spoken
Speaker 2: to people saying, hey, like just so we know what
Speaker 2: options can we have here, and like let's talk about it.
Speaker 2: I know other people in this space, we all do
Speaker 2: that are also doing the same thing simultaneously.
Speaker 1: Like this is.
Speaker 2: Happening more and more, and I do hope that we
Speaker 2: see a bigger change and maybe it will result in
Speaker 2: some further legislation. Maybe it goes back down to Google
Speaker 2: and Meta and everyone else that maybe has a bit
Speaker 2: more responsibility on what they are allowing on their sites.
Speaker 2: But I think it's a long way away.
Speaker 3: I think the disappointing thing is I'm not convinced that
Speaker 3: this will shift the dial I am excited by the
Speaker 3: fact that, like Indie for example, she's clearly been very
Speaker 3: affected by what she's experienced. I am excited for her
Speaker 3: that this creates some sort of psychological piece for her, and.
Speaker 2: We've got your back, Indie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's able to I guess, get some sort
Speaker 3: of solace. I don't think that it will shift the
Speaker 3: dial across the board, because like companies like Meta, the
Speaker 3: foundation of how they make income is to have as
Speaker 3: many users on their site as possible. They do not
Speaker 3: care if you have seventeen accounts one, two, three, four, five, six,
Speaker 3: And it's actually of detriment for them to clean up
Speaker 3: anonymous accounts because it then looks like the overall volume
Speaker 3: of users on their accoun smaller, like on the platform
Speaker 3: is smaller, and that then affects their bottom dollar. They
Speaker 3: want to seem to have trillions and trillions and trillions
Speaker 3: of users. So I mean, if they wanted to clean
Speaker 3: up anonymouscounts, they could. If they wanted you to put
Speaker 3: an ID or a you know, put some sort of
Speaker 3: personal information to your accounts, they could do that. They
Speaker 3: often argue the case that it could be then a
Speaker 3: breach of privacy and then they're holding all this personal data.
Speaker 3: They've got your data anyway, they have so much more data,
Speaker 3: they'd TikTok.
Speaker 1: Owns you totally. They have all your data.
Speaker 3: So like if you're using if you're using TikTok, if
Speaker 3: you're using Instagram, them asking for a fucking copy of
Speaker 3: your license and then a photo of you alongside. It
Speaker 3: is not going to be the thing that saves you
Speaker 3: from having your data stolen.
Speaker 1: It's already all there.
Speaker 3: But I don't think that it's going to shift the
Speaker 3: dial hugely. What I do think it's going to do
Speaker 3: is for those people who are influencers, who have the
Speaker 3: funding and the means, and who are aggressively and horrifically trolled,
Speaker 3: and who do experience things like doxing and things that
Speaker 3: are highlight level trolling. I'm not talking about you're calling
Speaker 3: someone a horrible names, but your high level trolling. It
Speaker 3: will give them the confidence to know that there's something
Speaker 3: they can do about it, because it shows them the
Speaker 3: route that someone else has taken and the positive outcome
Speaker 3: that that person has had. The question I have for
Speaker 3: you guys, though, is what we've just discussed at the beginning.
Speaker 3: Is it equivalent when an influencer who has millions of
Speaker 3: followers millions and millions of eyeballs and a lot of
Speaker 3: people who clearly back them. In the case of Indie,
Speaker 3: find out who their trolls are and know that it's just,
Speaker 3: you know, it's some mum who's got four kids, who
Speaker 3: lives in suburban Australia, who is in a job that
Speaker 3: doesn't fulfill them. Is it an equivalent sort of retribution
Speaker 3: to post their image their face publicly on social media,
Speaker 3: because what you're doing is you're sending your millions of
Speaker 3: followers to that one person as a consequence for their actions,
Speaker 3: but they don't have any ability to defend themselves. I'm
Speaker 3: kind of laughing here because we've spoke about this before
Speaker 3: we started recording an Eye quite differently to the two
Speaker 3: of you, and I just want to make it really clear.
Speaker 4: And he's not doing that as you guys have said.
Speaker 4: She's choosing to not release that information. And my immediate response.
Speaker 2: Was fuck them, Fuck them.
Speaker 4: Like they have caused so much harm that are actually done.
Speaker 4: And this is not like you said, It's not like
Speaker 4: one comment. This is relentless. This is like consistent abuse,
Speaker 4: and I just wonder why the fuck they've been able
Speaker 4: to get away with it for so long. And the
Speaker 4: thing that you were just saying about meta that I
Speaker 4: find really interesting is that we're talking about, you know,
Speaker 4: this debate of what's a bigger priority of privacy or
Speaker 4: whether we should have some type of like traceable accountability
Speaker 4: on these social media platforms. We're talking about in terms
Speaker 4: of influencers, we're talking about in terms of adults.
Speaker 2: This also extends to bullying of children.
Speaker 4: Like and I, we're seeing the Australian government be like
Speaker 4: front runners in bringing in this social media age of
Speaker 4: sixteen that users have to be I would love to
Speaker 4: see Australia be a front runner in going the effect
Speaker 4: of cyber bullying are so horrific that it is a
Speaker 4: bigger priority than what we think your privacy is on
Speaker 4: these apps. We're actually going to bring in a system
Speaker 4: that you have to have a traceable government ID attached
Speaker 4: to these accounts, so that if you are the person
Speaker 4: who is doing this, if you're the person who is
Speaker 4: relentlessly bullying and attacking certain people online and sending horrendous
Speaker 4: things and doing horrendous things, you're going to be held
Speaker 4: criminally responsible for it. I know it's extreme, I would
Speaker 4: support it to the ends of the Earth. I would
Speaker 4: sign my name on any change dot org because.
Speaker 2: The effects on a few burner accounts I don't like.
Speaker 4: The effects of this stuff can be so severe, and
Speaker 4: I think it's really beautiful that you guys both have
Speaker 4: so much empathy for the trolls in this situation, especially
Speaker 4: considering that you've experienced it.
Speaker 2: I find it's not right. I don't have empathy for
Speaker 2: the trolls. My thing is it's not black and white.
Speaker 2: There are people that I post on my Instagram if
Speaker 2: I think enough's enough or whatever, but I don't usually post.
Speaker 2: I think it comes with its imitations. Quite often, I
Speaker 2: will share a comment to my story that someone has
Speaker 2: written publicly from their profile. It's already there for people
Speaker 2: to see.
Speaker 1: Right, But it's not doxing someone.
Speaker 2: I'm not doxing them. They've said it, their profile is public.
Speaker 2: Anyone can go and look at it. Sometimes and sometimes
Speaker 2: I do it to laugh at it. I don't say
Speaker 2: I'm like, hahaha, this is funny.
Speaker 1: Whatever, but it's still rude.
Speaker 2: But when I have a problem with it is when
Speaker 2: there are people with huge followings that are sharing private
Speaker 2: conversations that are doxing people that might be not even
Speaker 2: quite involved in whatever the issue was. They're like surrounding people.
Speaker 2: They're people that are guilty by association, and when it's
Speaker 2: quite malicious and aggressive and it's very intentionally, hey, like,
Speaker 2: let's set out all my followers on this person. I
Speaker 2: do have problems with that because I've been on the
Speaker 2: receiving end of hate before, and I know what it
Speaker 2: feels like. And I have a thick skin and I
Speaker 2: get it all the time and I'm aware of it,
Speaker 2: and I still know what it feels like. So there
Speaker 2: is a part of me where if someone has just
Speaker 2: written something that they don't agree with you, maybe it
Speaker 2: is rude, and then your dogs in them and then
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of people going to abuse that mum
Speaker 2: in Melbourne of three, Like, I just know what it
Speaker 2: feels like. So I think, if you don't have to
Speaker 2: take that avenue all the time, don't tattle fucking docks,
Speaker 2: every single one of them. That is a cess pit
Speaker 2: and that is next level. So I don't care about that.
Speaker 2: So it's not that I have sympathy for trolls, but
Speaker 2: I am hyper aware of the consequences of a pylon
Speaker 2: and a public cancelation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe my opinions on it has changed over the years.
Speaker 3: When I was in the thick of the nastiness, which
Speaker 3: was there was an old forum long before Tattle, and
Speaker 3: it was called the Batch and Batchett Forum, and it
Speaker 3: started off as a sleuthing site, but it really was
Speaker 3: just pages and pages, hundreds of pages of horrible, horrible
Speaker 3: comments about every single contestant on The Bachelor. It's really
Speaker 3: prolific in the US. Obviously it probably doesn't exist in
Speaker 3: Australia anymore. But it rattled me and it rattled my
Speaker 3: mental health really badly. I since then and since I
Speaker 3: kind of like got over that part of my life,
Speaker 3: I didn't read it and feel dad or angry or anything.
Speaker 1: I read it and I was like, wow, you and.
Speaker 3: I I look, some people might think this is being harsh.
Speaker 3: I read it and I was like, if you have
Speaker 3: the capacity to spend your time talking in this way
Speaker 3: about influencers who are out there living their life and
Speaker 3: they're happy, and you're spending your time so obsessed watching
Speaker 3: their stories, writing about their lives, trying to unpick the
Speaker 3: things that you think you know about them, you are
Speaker 3: a loser. Not only are you a loser, you have
Speaker 3: a parasocial relationship. You might deny it, you might not
Speaker 3: think it's a parasocial relationship, but you're obsessed with them,
Speaker 3: and it's just a negative one.
Speaker 1: It's the exact same thing.
Speaker 3: You're a mega fan, just a weird, shitty one. And
Speaker 3: to me, that is such a sad place to be.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I kind of just feel sorry for them,
Speaker 3: to be honest, I do.
Speaker 2: The problem is that's a really privileged I love that
Speaker 2: you feel like that, and my skin's thick now, I
Speaker 2: love that I feel like that.
Speaker 1: It's a very privilege.
Speaker 3: It's taken years, eight years to get to this place
Speaker 3: of it not affecting my mental health and not caring.
Speaker 1: Now it just a really genuine life.
Speaker 4: They both have a lot of grace in these situations,
Speaker 4: whereas like, I'm probably not as far down that line
Speaker 4: because I've only seen it affect people that I love.
Speaker 2: I've only seen things written about the two.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's been few things written about me that
Speaker 4: are completely fake as well, but I've.
Speaker 2: Seen the harshness of it.
Speaker 4: And that's why I feel like I do sit a
Speaker 4: little bit differently with this exposing the trolls, because I'm like,
Speaker 4: there has to be consequences for them, and if there
Speaker 4: is consequences for one of them, will that then set
Speaker 4: the president? Is the threat of someone being exposed enough
Speaker 4: to make people who were doing this stop?
Speaker 2: The threat isn't. No, I don't believe that. I don't
Speaker 2: believe just the threat of like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: could be next probably excites them. They probably get off
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: I don't think that anyone's stopping at the moment.
Speaker 4: No, do you reckon that if Indy were to turn
Speaker 4: around and go, well, these are the names and the
Speaker 4: people and those people lost their jobs, their.
Speaker 2: Family were ashamed of them. Yes. Do you then think
Speaker 2: that people who are trolls would go, oh, that could
Speaker 2: be me next.
Speaker 3: I do think that if Indy actually did take that
Speaker 3: stance and started to publicly show their faces, I do
Speaker 3: think that that would have it would have an impact
Speaker 3: for a period of time, because you know, like we
Speaker 3: know with everything that happens in the media, it has
Speaker 3: like a hype reaction. Everyone kind of like latches on
Speaker 3: and it has a momentary impact and then everyone goes
Speaker 3: back to the way that it was. My only thing, though,
Speaker 3: is is that consequence? Does that consequence for those individuals
Speaker 3: outweigh the overall good that that does, because I would
Speaker 3: dare say that if Indy did expose the names of
Speaker 3: these Melbourne mums who have been saying and doing horrible things,
Speaker 3: they will lose their jobs, they will be affected. The
Speaker 3: amount of trolling that they will receive. I actually think
Speaker 3: it would have such severe psychological impacts on them and
Speaker 3: they are not prepared for it because they've not had
Speaker 3: years of growing into a social media space. They would
Speaker 3: just fucking crumble under that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then I think there are plenty of those
Speaker 2: trolls that have contacted influencers jobs and lost their work.
Speaker 2: They're contacting the per they work with, charities they work with,
Speaker 2: They're taking away their livelihood. That's what happens on tattle.
Speaker 2: It's what happens, not on title Like, there are definitely
Speaker 2: people in Australia that contact people's work and trying to
Speaker 2: get them to lose work. In that case, fucking yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe you do have to lose your job if you're
Speaker 2: causing other people to lose their job. Actions have to
Speaker 2: have reactions and they have to have consequences. It's so
Speaker 2: hard to say whether or not the good outways are
Speaker 2: bad or the bad. Outways are good in terms of
Speaker 2: having repercussions if you're out someone and what happens to them.
Speaker 4: There's also not a halfway punishment, no, which I acknowledge.
Speaker 4: You know, it's kind of an all or nothing, which
Speaker 4: is hard to kind of find peace with.
Speaker 2: I guess I just yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Both of these stories coming out at exactly the same
Speaker 4: time has given me a bit of gusto to be like,
Speaker 4: maybe there is hope that cyber bullying will shift in
Speaker 4: the future.
Speaker 2: And maybe I'm being a little bit.
Speaker 4: Like glass too full in that kind of thought process,
Speaker 4: but I've just seen this happen for so so, so long,
Speaker 4: with so many people hurt and affected, including children, including
Speaker 4: teenagers who have ended up taking their lives because of cyberbullying,
Speaker 4: and I.
Speaker 2: I just don't accept the fact that we go, oh, well, Meta.
Speaker 4: Doesn't want to lose you know, users, so there's nothing
Speaker 4: we can do about it. There's nothing that we can
Speaker 4: do to stop these people causing more harm to other people.
Speaker 3: And the reality is is that for as long as
Speaker 3: tech companies kind of wipe their hands to this, and
Speaker 3: it becomes a problem that people have to individually pursue
Speaker 3: either through lawyers or through private investigators. That is something
Speaker 3: that only the elite and financially wealthy people are able
Speaker 3: to put resources to. So for you know, people who
Speaker 3: are making an average income on social media, or maybe
Speaker 3: they're not even making an income on social media, they
Speaker 3: just have some followers. For those people, there's nothing that
Speaker 3: they can do about it, and so they just have
Speaker 3: to cop the brunt of that trolling because there is
Speaker 3: no consequences for that middle ground, which makes it a
Speaker 3: really really unregulated space.
Speaker 2: You are not anonymous, and it's important for people to
Speaker 2: know that. With the digital footprint and the advancement in
Speaker 2: technology now, it's going to become so much easier to
Speaker 2: find out who you are, like to get your data,
Speaker 2: to get everything about you. Remember that every time you
Speaker 2: want to go and write something on someone's profile, maybe
Speaker 2: it's your burner account, whatever it is, you can be found.
Speaker 2: And I think that is gonna start a whole new
Speaker 2: movement of people influences across the world. They're gonna be like,
Speaker 2: fuck it, I don't care anymore. I'm gonna also out you.
Speaker 1: All right, it is time for our suck and our
Speaker 1: sweet of the week. Britt, what is your suck.
Speaker 2: My suck would have to be. We didn't really speak
Speaker 2: about it, but I did go to New Zealand with
Speaker 2: Ben on the weekend and it was like, incredible, my
Speaker 2: suck would be. Maybe we'll talk about it next week.
Speaker 2: But like how Ben is basically almost not gotten into
Speaker 2: the last three countries that we've gone to within like
Speaker 2: a week period. So he almost didn't get into Bali
Speaker 2: for the wedding. Then he almost didn't get back into Australia,
Speaker 2: and then we got stopped. He almost didn't get to
Speaker 2: New Zealand. We almost canceled the whole trip. We had
Speaker 2: to be on the phone to like border security because
Speaker 2: of his visa shit that he feels out my head in.
Speaker 1: You have to stop making him sound so incompetent.
Speaker 2: He was incompetent. He filled out the visa incorrectly. They
Speaker 2: wouldn't let him into New Zealand. I know, but people
Speaker 2: are gonna being like they're not they know I love
Speaker 2: a child, No, they know I love him. He speaks
Speaker 2: five languages. I praise him all the time. Can the
Speaker 2: man fill out a visa form? Evidently not?
Speaker 1: But so my suck.
Speaker 2: When my suck was said, I was messaging Kisher at
Speaker 2: the time live. I was like, I just need to
Speaker 2: talk to someone right now because we're not getting to
Speaker 2: New Zealand. The plane was like an hour. We were
Speaker 2: boarding in an hour and we're at the desk. They're like, sorry,
Speaker 2: your visa's not working. Takes three days to get it.
Speaker 2: I was like, what's the problem anyway. Brit was like,
Speaker 2: I'll see you when I get back from New Zealand
Speaker 2: in three days. I was like, bye, man, No, it
Speaker 2: worked out. What I will say is a lady at
Speaker 2: the Quanta's desk that helped us. She like was amazing.
Speaker 2: She got on the phone to New Zealand because.
Speaker 1: She got on the phone to the country.
Speaker 2: She did. She got on the phone to the New
Speaker 2: Zealand visas because it's not a problem with him or
Speaker 2: where he's from or what he's doing. He just ticks
Speaker 2: the wrong boxes.
Speaker 1: Like I think he just doesn't read it right.
Speaker 2: Anyway. He said he was an Australian permanent resident that
Speaker 2: was going on the trip. When coming back and they
Speaker 2: were like, but you're manifesting it. But then when you
Speaker 2: scan the passport, it knows that you're on an Australian residence.
Speaker 2: So nothing matched they wouldn't approve it. So this lovely
Speaker 2: contest worker was on the phone for ages and they
Speaker 2: ended up like within minutes to go sorting and out
Speaker 2: fixing a visa on the spot and like helping him in.
Speaker 2: So that was both my suck and my suite simultaneously.
Speaker 2: And I hope everyone knows that when a bag bent
Speaker 2: out like this, it comes from love. Like he stresses
Speaker 2: me out, but I couldn't love him more. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that's my my suite will be just that somebody decided
Speaker 2: to go above and beyond to help us and it
Speaker 2: literally changed the next week of our life. So it's like,
Speaker 2: that's a really cool thing.
Speaker 3: Well we I feel like everyone in this the studio
Speaker 3: has a bit of a suck this week as well.
Speaker 3: So Nas, who we've spoken about a little bit, is
Speaker 3: our video editor and she's also been a really good
Speaker 3: friend of mine for like the last decade. Ness is
Speaker 3: the reason why I have Buster. So that's how Buster
Speaker 3: came into my life, and we lived together as co
Speaker 3: parenting of Buster for a couple of years there as well.
Speaker 2: So did when you split you took three legs, you
Speaker 2: took one.
Speaker 3: So she just keeps Buster's other leg on the mantelpiece,
Speaker 3: you know, like we're like we always used to refer
Speaker 3: to it like ness was Busty's adopted mom and then
Speaker 3: I adopted him, and we just kind of like we
Speaker 3: were the co parent mums that all lived together. And
Speaker 3: then Nessa's partner moved in with us, and so Buster
Speaker 3: had three mums for a period of there. But ness
Speaker 3: is a very big advocate for rescue dogs, and this
Speaker 3: week she had to put down Juni, and Junie is
Speaker 3: Buster's like little bestie and just the most beautiful dog.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's been.
Speaker 2: Very very sad, very horrific time.
Speaker 3: It's been very sad, and also it's like off the
Speaker 3: back of just like really sad animal news. Keisha also
Speaker 3: had to do well in her family. They have a
Speaker 3: beautiful Golden Retriever named Duke, and Duke also he was
Speaker 3: put down in the last on K.
Speaker 4: I was about to say, Ness'll late it this so
Speaker 4: you don't have to edit it, and now I'm like, no,
Speaker 4: we can both.
Speaker 3: But it's also just I mean, you know, it's yeah,
Speaker 3: and we are like such big dog lovers in this studio,
Speaker 3: like every single one of us, and I think it's
Speaker 3: like your family they are absolute family. Anyone who's had
Speaker 3: to say goodbye to a pet because it was the
Speaker 3: right time and the right thing to do for them,
Speaker 3: like knows how incredibly hard it is. And yeah, because
Speaker 3: you give you pictures. A bit hug tonight, that's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely like after Nessa's news yesterday and Duke's
Speaker 2: news last week, I definitely hugged Delilah extra tigh last night.
Speaker 3: I did kids just now and then I look at
Speaker 3: Busting and I'm like, you're getting old, buddy.
Speaker 1: It's ten and a half and he's real slow.
Speaker 2: So that to Delilahs over.
Speaker 1: A lot, poor bastard.
Speaker 2: You're a bit chunky, Delilah. So I want to put
Speaker 2: you on diet.
Speaker 3: I put Buster on a diet to try and I
Speaker 3: was like, let's call back some years, buddy, but you
Speaker 3: know said, I was.
Speaker 2: Like, all right, let's get that heart back in check.
Speaker 1: Where we're going to shed the He's really getting slow.
Speaker 1: It makes me so sad.
Speaker 3: My sweet for the week is is that by the
Speaker 3: time it comes out, which hasn't happened yet, but it's happening,
Speaker 3: and I guess it's around her excitement for it. So
Speaker 3: on Thursday, it is Mally's birthday. She's turning six. How
Speaker 3: the fuck I have a six year old? Is just
Speaker 3: I can't get my head around me. I feel like
Speaker 3: it's also my birthday. It's like six years since I've
Speaker 3: become a mom.
Speaker 2: It's the podcast birthday.
Speaker 3: It's also the podcast birthday. So well, actually in one
Speaker 3: month's time. I think the podcast birthday is technically on
Speaker 3: like the fifteenth of July. But it's been really sweet.
Speaker 3: She's just so so excited. And I think this year
Speaker 3: having a birthday, because it's her first year of school,
Speaker 3: it kind of is a bit different because she really
Speaker 3: understands the concept of having a birthday party and choosing
Speaker 3: her friends that she wants to come, and like.
Speaker 2: She's the friends. That's so hard.
Speaker 1: They're pretty kind at school these days.
Speaker 2: They invite the whole class.
Speaker 3: Not the whole class, but she's having like a lot
Speaker 3: of the girls, like all the girls that she's it's
Speaker 3: kind of like within her group of friends. Or she
Speaker 3: goes to after school with they all are coming, so
Speaker 3: like they're all invited. But yeah, I do feel like
Speaker 3: birthday parties are way more inclusive now than what they
Speaker 3: used to be. You can't give out invitations at school.
Speaker 3: The invitations have to be sent on WhatsApp. You can't
Speaker 3: like go and be like you get one, you don't
Speaker 3: get one.
Speaker 2: It's much nicer. That used to be really brutal if
Speaker 2: you didn't one around with their lips. Oh.
Speaker 3: Also Christmas cards. Christmas cards are also not nice and
Speaker 3: Christmas ban Christmas. I remember kids would bring Christmas cards
Speaker 3: in and unless you're given a Christmas card to the
Speaker 3: whole class, don't give out Christmas cards.
Speaker 1: I'm still scarred. I was just trying to think.
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't remember never getting the invitation,
Speaker 4: and now I'm like, oh, I was that wenker that
Speaker 4: was invited to everything.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Maybe my school had that rule. Maybe ever because I
Speaker 4: don't remember.
Speaker 2: Maybe your mom was going behind your back being like
Speaker 2: you invite All right, let's get out of here. Keep
Speaker 2: your accent unfiltered. Coming into our Instagram Life and Cut podcast.
Speaker 2: You can put ask uncut for your questions. Anything you
Speaker 2: want us to know the aftermass. If we've ever done
Speaker 2: a question for you or someone you know and you've
Speaker 2: got to follow up, send us the aftermass. Sherry's going
Speaker 2: through them all. We're frothing them and you guys want
Speaker 2: to see more, so keep them coming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm also so interested off the back of
Speaker 3: this conversation that we've had today around online trolls and
Speaker 3: everything else, I really would love to know.
Speaker 1: Maybe we should poll it.
Speaker 3: Do you think that if somebody has been anonymously trolling
Speaker 3: someone online and they find out their identity, do you
Speaker 3: think that they should and I'm talking about an influenced
Speaker 3: specifically like Indy Clinton, do you think that they should
Speaker 3: keep that person anonymous or do you think that actually
Speaker 3: the consequence is if you're going to write the shit online,
Speaker 3: then you have to face up that you said it.
Speaker 3: You are the person, and here is your identity for
Speaker 3: everyone to know. Do you think that that is a
Speaker 3: fair punishment for the crime of being an asshole online?
Speaker 3: I'd love to know people's opinions on that, because the
Speaker 3: three of us can't seem to agree.
Speaker 1: And that's it from us, guys.
Speaker 2: You know, the drill Dog Tae friends and share the
Speaker 2: love because we love love