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Speaker 1: Do you spend a lot of time focused on being healthy?

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Speaker 1: Would you never ever skip a workout or indulge in

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Speaker 1: high calorie food without feeling incredibly guilty? Do you spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about what you're going to

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Speaker 1: eat and cook and even avoid going out to dinner

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Speaker 1: for fear of eating the wrong thing? What do you

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Speaker 1: try and eat as little as possible to keep your

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Speaker 1: weight down and then only finding yourself starving and then

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Speaker 1: overeating later. The quest to be healthy can become an obsession,

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Speaker 1: and on today's episode, we discussed the presentation of orthorexia

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Speaker 1: and the signs that trying to be healthy may have

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Speaker 1: gone a little bit too far.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Susie Burrow and on.

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Speaker 1: Lea Lord, and as two of us straight as leading

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Speaker 1: dieticians who specialize in evidence based nutrition, we bring you

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Speaker 1: the Nutrition Couch podcast, a biweekly chat on everything that

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Speaker 1: is new in the world of food, diets and nutrition,

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Speaker 1: as well as authorexia. Today we look at a new

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Speaker 1: way of eating called sequential eating, which actually has some

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Speaker 1: evidence to back it for the right person, and our

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Speaker 1: listener question is all about colds and flu season and

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Speaker 1: what are the supplements we can try to help you

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Speaker 1: recover quickly if you've been sick. But first of all, Yead,

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Speaker 1: I know you've been a little bit sleep deprived because

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Speaker 1: baby Meya is getting some teeth. How is that going?

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Speaker 2: Oh my dream baby? He used to sleep seven hours overnight.

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Speaker 2: It's no more season. She was so good from about

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Speaker 2: eight weeks old. She's sort of ate until about four months.

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Speaker 2: Eight weeks till about four months she'd do six seven

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Speaker 2: hour block overnight. It was amazing. Or sometimes we just

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Speaker 2: dream feed her a little bit around either eleven pm

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Speaker 2: or sort of one am, and then she's sleep right

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Speaker 2: through to sort of five five thirty, which is amazing.

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Speaker 2: But lately we've just had accommodation of sickness in our household.

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Speaker 2: We've all picked up colds somehow touch wood. We've still

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Speaker 2: managed to avoid COVID. We've done seven routes between David

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Speaker 2: and I, so it's definitely not COVID. It's just a

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Speaker 2: nasty cold that's going around. Everyone at the moment just

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Speaker 2: seems to have some sort of cold or flu or

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Speaker 2: bug or you know, COVID's still out there as well,

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Speaker 2: So there's just been a lot of sickness around like this.

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Speaker 2: So we've had that in the household, plus Mears had

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Speaker 2: some teeth, and she's just been a little bit out

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Speaker 2: of sorts lately. So the last couple of nights, you know,

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Speaker 2: she's barely done an hour one to two hour blocks.

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Speaker 2: Norm she'll do a good three four five hour block

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Speaker 2: and then we'll get up feeder, she'll do another two

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Speaker 2: three hours feeder, then she might go back down for

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Speaker 2: an hour or so. On a good day, you know,

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Speaker 2: we get to sleep until sort of six or so.

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Speaker 2: But at the moment, it's been you know, we put

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Speaker 2: her down at seven, we dream feed her at nine

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Speaker 2: or ten, and then she's up at midnight, and she's

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Speaker 2: up again at one thirty. Then she's up again at three.

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Speaker 2: And I think the other morning I took her out

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Speaker 2: because David had to go on to work, maybe about

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Speaker 2: five am or five thirty or something, and oh, I

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Speaker 2: was just exhausted. I abouty keep my eyes open. So

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Speaker 2: any other mum is going through it at the moment,

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Speaker 2: we're in this together. She's she's kind at first two

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Speaker 2: bottom teeth, so I think the tea things sort of

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Speaker 2: stopped now at the moment, I think it's more just

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Speaker 2: she's just I don't know a little bit out of

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Speaker 2: thought's unsettled. She might have picked up a little bug

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Speaker 2: or a little virus. I'm not really sure what's going on,

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Speaker 2: but we'll come through. We'll come out the other end, Susie.

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Speaker 2: You will, because you know.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is, And I was just talking to Bronti,

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Speaker 1: who looks after all of my and our Instagram images. Actually,

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Speaker 1: so I shout out a big shout out to Bronti,

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Speaker 1: who really helps us on the nutrition couch. Her little baby,

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Speaker 1: Emmy is just six weeks old, and she was I

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Speaker 1: went to see her for the first time, and she

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Speaker 1: was talking about how good a baby she is, and

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Speaker 1: I said, you should really just tone that right down,

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Speaker 1: just because in my experience, everyone has a turn for

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Speaker 1: one of a better term hell with young children. But

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Speaker 1: my advice to everybody and all the parents out there listening.

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Speaker 1: I can't even remember the time. All I remember is

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Speaker 1: just a haze. I couldn't tell you when teething was

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Speaker 1: or when it was bad, other than there were some

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Speaker 1: really bad times and there were some times it were fine.

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Speaker 1: But for some reason you just seem to forget it all.

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Speaker 1: So that's the good news. You'll get through and you

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Speaker 1: won't remember how bad it is. So everyone has their

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Speaker 1: turn with it and you'll come through. And you know,

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Speaker 1: like I said, my litle boys now they're so tired

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Speaker 1: at school, have very little drama with them, so you'll

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Speaker 1: be right. Hang in there, hang in there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've just gonna wait till they what five or six,

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Speaker 2: and it will come good.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know, I actually think once they go to

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Speaker 1: like toilet chrained, I think three four even, they're pretty good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, certainly it's a tough time, but you will

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Speaker 1: get through and you're fit, healthy, so you'll be right.

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Speaker 1: It's the Queensland cold, I reckon that's hurting you. It's

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Speaker 1: Brisbane's cold.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I know, it really has. Like we've had some

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Speaker 2: mornings that are seven, you know, six seven, eight degrees

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Speaker 2: and I'm just thinking, this isn't the reason that I

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Speaker 2: live in Brisbane. I live you for the warm weather exactly.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 1: It's been really cold up there, so that's not acceptable

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Speaker 1: at any level. So I'm heading up there soon, so

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Speaker 1: better warm up anyway. And moving on today, we're a

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Speaker 1: little bit excited actually because we found a few headlines

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Speaker 1: that we thought, oh, we haven't talked about that, and

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Speaker 1: there's very few nutrition headlines that come through on my

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Speaker 1: phone that I sort of think, oh, that's interesting, because

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Speaker 1: obviously I've worked a really long time, I've heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of it before. If anything, I probably am a

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Speaker 1: bit jaded. But last night I was scrolling Twitter at

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Speaker 1: a time I really shouldn't have been, and I saw

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Speaker 1: this reference to a new passion of eating called food sequencing.

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Speaker 1: And I have never heard of this before, and when

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Speaker 1: I took a little deep dive, apparently it's out there,

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Speaker 1: and there's a couple of key articles on it. One

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Speaker 1: was published in The Conversation, which is quite a reputable

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Speaker 1: online evidence based publication. And to put it in the

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Speaker 1: most basic of terms, it is we wouldn't call it

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Speaker 1: food combining because that's separate altogether, but it's basically looking

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Speaker 1: at the macronutrient or breakdown of the foods we eat. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, saying it a meal will have a mix

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Speaker 1: of protein rich foods, carbohydrate rich foods, low energy density foods,

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Speaker 1: so salads and vegetables, and then things like your start

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Speaker 1: sheet carbohydrates. And the theory is for people who are

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Speaker 1: more sensitive to fluctuations in glucose levels, So perhaps those

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Speaker 1: with hyperglycemia or insulin resistance or pre diabetes, people who

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Speaker 1: really suffer from that peak and then the drop where

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Speaker 1: they get really craving and times overeat.

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Speaker 2: The argument is.

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Speaker 1: If you eat what we would call the low energy

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Speaker 1: density foods first, so salads or soup, follow that with

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Speaker 1: the protein rich foods I say, the chicken or the

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Speaker 1: meat or the dairy part of the meal, and then

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Speaker 1: finish with any starchy carbohydrates, that any peak in glucose

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Speaker 1: levels will be flattened and leave you less prone to

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Speaker 1: energy fluctuations and cravings, which is better for glucose regulation

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Speaker 1: long term. Now, as I said, it's not it's new

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Speaker 1: science as such, because we know roughly that that is

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Speaker 1: the way scientifically food will break down. You know, a

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Speaker 1: few food combine or have protein with carbohydrate, it will

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Speaker 1: help to control glucose levels. But this is the first

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Speaker 1: time I've seen it referred to as a movement around

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Speaker 1: going out of your way to.

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Speaker 2: Eat in this order.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if you think back to plates of food,

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Speaker 1: some people will save their meat to laughs because it's

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Speaker 1: the best bid or whatever the preference. Whereas this is

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Speaker 1: talking about it in terms of what's best for digestion

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Speaker 1: and specifically glucose regulation, and there is some studies looking

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Speaker 1: at it, which to me was really quite surprising. So

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Speaker 1: in one study they were looking at participants consuming a

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Speaker 1: way protein based shake thirty minutes before a meal that

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Speaker 1: had potato in it with the goal of slowing gastric

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Speaker 1: emptying and helping bo glucose levels be controlled. And there

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Speaker 1: was evidence to show this really did help reduce glucose

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Speaker 1: spikes and.

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Speaker 2: The experience of that.

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Speaker 1: So I thought, how interesting, because, as I said, in

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Speaker 1: all the years I've worked in practice, I've never heard it.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, well, it's really quite novel and really interesting,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if I'll try it with clients

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Speaker 1: or not, but I thought it was certainly worthy of

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Speaker 1: a discussion, and particularly for people who really struggle with

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Speaker 1: those highs and lows through the afternoon, suggestive of perhaps

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Speaker 1: some insulin issues or chromium deficiency which can absolutely be

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Speaker 1: associated with hyperglycemia, which is where you get really lo

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Speaker 1: glucose levels and feel almost shaky.

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Speaker 2: So what do you think.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard of it?

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Speaker 2: You say it before, No, I haven't, but I did

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Speaker 2: a bit of read when you sent the headline through

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Speaker 2: and I thought, well, it's very interesting, but if we're

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Speaker 2: being honest, there's not a whole lot of research behind it,

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Speaker 2: and it really is, you know, for a more diabetic

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Speaker 2: or a pre diabetic population that I think would be

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Speaker 2: the most beneficial. I think if you're a fit, healthy

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Speaker 2: person who's just generally aiming for you know, health in

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Speaker 2: their lifestyle, I don't really think it's going to be

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Speaker 2: that beneficial. Because there was another small study that tested

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Speaker 2: five different meal sequences. So you know, some participants ate

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Speaker 2: the carbs first, some participants ate the protein first, some

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Speaker 2: participants ate the veggies first, and they all had to

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Speaker 2: eat their meal within fifteen minutes, so the timing of

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Speaker 2: the meal was factored in as well. And of those

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Speaker 2: five different meal sequences, none of those sequences actually made

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Speaker 2: a difference to the overall spike in blood glue coase levels,

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Speaker 2: whether they their veggies first, their meat first, their rice first.

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Speaker 2: So I thought that was interesting. So there's not a

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Speaker 2: whole amount of evidence behind it. But if you are

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Speaker 2: somebody who really does struggle with those big spikes in

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Speaker 2: their glucose levels or struggles to get their blood glucose readings,

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Speaker 2: you know, more stable, it probably is something that's worth

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Speaker 2: a trial. It's definitely not going to hurt you. But

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Speaker 2: I do feel like sensible nutrition goes hand in hand.

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Speaker 2: Like if you're someone who has diabetes or is pre diabetic,

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Speaker 2: if you're sitting at a restaurant waiting field meal and

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Speaker 2: sipping on a soft drink or you're sipping on a juice,

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Speaker 2: of course that's going to hinder you know, your blood

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Speaker 2: sugar levels. But if you're someone who you've ordered a

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Speaker 2: really lovely healthy salad and it's got some kinoi in it,

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Speaker 2: and it's got some chicken in it, and it's got

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Speaker 2: some avocado in it, I think just eating that meal

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Speaker 2: as a whole meal is probably absolutely okay. I think

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Speaker 2: it really comes down to the amount of foods that

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Speaker 2: we're eating as well. For having a huge bowl of

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Speaker 2: creamy pasta, yeah, maybe it may be beneficial to have

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Speaker 2: a salad first, or have I don't know, some Greek

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Speaker 2: yogurt or a protein hit before that to really reduce

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Speaker 2: the overall spike of the those glute coase levels. So

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Speaker 2: although there's not a whole I guess amount of research

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Speaker 2: behind it, it is a kind of a cool novel concept.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are definitely probably some listeners out there

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Speaker 2: SUSI that do struggle with their sugar level. So I

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Speaker 2: do think it's something that if we've got the time,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think it probably shouldn't take you know,

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Speaker 2: any more time to eat a meal a different sequence.

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Speaker 2: To me, it probably wouldn't add much to the over

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Speaker 2: experience of a meal. I really like to mix things up.

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Speaker 2: I like to sort of have the flavors going all

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Speaker 2: through too together. I wouldn't like to just eat my

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Speaker 2: chicken first and then my potato, then my salads or whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, whatever sequence first. I prefer to eat things

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Speaker 2: all together. But I do think it's worth a try

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Speaker 2: at home. It's not going to cause any harm and

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Speaker 2: it's not going to you know, be negative, I don't

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Speaker 2: think for anyone out there. So I think it's well

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Speaker 2: worth a trial for Alyssis at home and do struggle

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Speaker 2: with you know, highs and lows in terms of their sugars.

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Speaker 1: Well, what are the very basic nutrition guidelines I've always

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Speaker 1: recommended for years is always at carbohydrate and protein together,

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Speaker 1: because my argument is that you will be kept full

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Speaker 1: of for longer, you will have a better profile of nutrients.

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Speaker 1: So it's not indirectly exactly this suggested order, but it's

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Speaker 1: not dissimilar. But what we do know from volumetrics eating

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Speaker 1: is that including a low energy density food before the

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Speaker 1: meal or at the start of the meal, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a broth type soup or a salad or even a

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Speaker 1: plate of vegetables, is that you lead up to one

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Speaker 1: hundred calories less per meal basically because it occupies some

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Speaker 1: of the stomach and fills you up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: same as drinking a glass of water before a meal.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit of an extension of that.

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Speaker 2: But I think as a.

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Speaker 1: Novel aspect, particularly for people who really struggle through the afternoon,

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Speaker 1: so those who are at really high risk of type

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Speaker 1: two diabetes or no they have that real low feeling,

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Speaker 1: it's probably worth a little play. It won't hurt. But

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Speaker 1: as I said, I wouldn't be mucking around with shakes

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Speaker 1: and things. All I would do is say start the

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Speaker 1: meal with some sort of low salad or bulk. You know,

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Speaker 1: have then your protein and then you know, have any

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Speaker 1: of the carbohydrate more towards the end to give that

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Speaker 1: digestion and just see the effect and if you find

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Speaker 1: it works for you, it's a strategy that they're it

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Speaker 1: won't hurt and if it works fantastic. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: not using any strange supplements, so it's really just you know,

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Speaker 1: having a little look at physiology and seeing how we

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Speaker 1: digest food. And I think it also encourages people to

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Speaker 1: really look at the makeup of their meal because the

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Speaker 1: feedback I'm giving every daily and is where are your salad?

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Speaker 1: Where's your vegetables? Because the meals are inevitably too much protein,

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Speaker 1: too much carbohydrate. You know, people will have a big

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Speaker 1: serve of chicken or a realasmably big serve of meat,

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Speaker 1: and then rice or noodles in far excess of what

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Speaker 1: should be there, Whereas I think if we take the

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Speaker 1: focus back to a salad or veggies or soup to start,

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Speaker 1: it's a bit of an entree.

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Speaker 2: It's good for your nutrition in general.

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Speaker 1: And then whether you eat the protein or the carbs

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Speaker 1: straight after each other, I don't think it'll make a

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Speaker 1: massive difference. But I think just loading up with that

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Speaker 1: bulk and that volume that we all need is a

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Speaker 1: good strategy for all of us, and we could all

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Speaker 1: benefit from having more veggies in general. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: if you want to take it to the extreme, if

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Speaker 1: you do want, you know, we wouldn't be encouraging people

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Speaker 1: to have mashed potato anyway. We'd certainly want a potato

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Speaker 1: in a jacket as the recommendation. It comes down to

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Speaker 1: a little bit of carbohydrate quality and portion size. But

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Speaker 1: you know, certainly, I think that there's a bit of

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Speaker 1: fun in it, and if it works for you, it's

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Speaker 1: certainly something to have a look at, and metabolically there

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Speaker 1: would be some evidence to support it. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was quite interested, and I think we'll see a few

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Speaker 1: articles on this coming through now because we're is like

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Speaker 1: something new in the tight space and I've never heard

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Speaker 1: of that before. So you've heard it here first on

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Speaker 1: the Nutrition Couch podcast, food sequencing and the association with

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Speaker 1: licose control. So let us know your thoughts if you've

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Speaker 1: tried it and if it works for you.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah, I like that. It's a really novel concept.

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Speaker 2: But as you sort of hinted it, I really we're

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Speaker 2: not really encouraging people to go and have a way

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Speaker 2: protein jake thirty minutes before their meal. I just think

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Speaker 2: that's a sort of an excessive thing and That's how

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Speaker 2: those were able to sort of standardize the research studies.

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Speaker 2: I really do think have the meal that you're going

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Speaker 2: to eat and maybe try to sequence out the different

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Speaker 2: parts of that that you're going to have in a

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Speaker 2: different timing, or you know, have one portion first, the

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Speaker 2: next portion after, versus mixing it all together. We're definitely

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Speaker 2: not encouraging adding extra protein to the meal because I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of us drains, particularly at dinner time,

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Speaker 2: actually too much protein anyway. So I don't think adding

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Speaker 2: more protein at the start of the meal or thirty

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Speaker 2: minutes before is going to do too much from a

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Speaker 2: general health perspective, Because we know Ossie's particularly red meat,

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Speaker 2: we eat far too much protein. We eat far too

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Speaker 2: much red meat, so we definitely don't need more necessarily

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Speaker 2: in our diet. So it's a novel little concept, and

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Speaker 2: it will be interesting to see if our listeners can

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Speaker 2: provide us with any feedback if anyone's given it a go.

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Speaker 2: But moving on to our client case study of the week,

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Speaker 2: So SUSI, this is I would say a condition that

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Speaker 2: we've both seen more and more frequently within our clinics,

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Speaker 2: particularly in our younger population, particularly in our females. So

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Speaker 2: it's the concept of or the clinical condition that we

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Speaker 2: would call orthorexia nevosa by definition, So orthorexia nervosa is

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Speaker 2: basically a disordered eating pattern that's characterized by the need

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Speaker 2: or the obsession to eat completely clean and completely pure

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Speaker 2: foods to the point that that individual or that person

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Speaker 2: then becomes quite obsessive with this wave eating in this

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Speaker 2: way of life. So orthorexia nervosa is commonly associated with

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Speaker 2: and also social isolation. So if you were looking to

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Speaker 2: have an exact definition, authorexia is an obsession with eating

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Speaker 2: healthy foods. Basically, that's probably the easiest definition, and it

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Speaker 2: is now a diagnosed medical condition because you know, years ago, Susie,

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Speaker 2: we had eating disorders that were anorexia and neversia, we

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Speaker 2: had bulimia. We never had a type of eating or

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Speaker 2: a style of eating that really was focused on restriction

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Speaker 2: and really focused around healthy foods. So I really like

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Speaker 2: that in the past couple of years, we've moved away

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Speaker 2: from just saying, well, if you don't have an arexia

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Speaker 2: and you don't have been eating disorder, we don't have

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Speaker 2: an eating disorder. Because we know all Bolima as well.

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Speaker 2: We know that even being completely obsessed with quote unquote

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Speaker 2: clean eating and healthy eating can be damaging and detrimental

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Speaker 2: to our health long term. So we found an article

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Speaker 2: online and I really like the Susie. It was written

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Speaker 2: by a dietitian and it essentially says the ten signs

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Speaker 2: that you're healthy eating may have gone too far. So

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Speaker 2: I guess a red flag or something you might think

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Speaker 2: about if you're thinking at home and thinking, oh am

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Speaker 2: I suffering from authorexia? Do I need to go and

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Speaker 2: see a psychologist? Should I see my doctor? Should I

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Speaker 2: see a dietician? These are maybe some red flags or

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Speaker 2: some signs that things may have gone a little bit

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Speaker 2: too far despite the best intentions. So I don't think

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Speaker 2: anybody sets out to have an eating disorder, right, but

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Speaker 2: it sort of just develops naturally over time. And for

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Speaker 2: those of us with more of that perfectionist personality type

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Speaker 2: and really like we're obsessed with being healthier, we fear

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Speaker 2: unhealthy foods. I think that's sort of the first red flag.

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Speaker 2: So the number one sort of sign that you're healthy

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Speaker 2: eating may have gone a bit too far is that

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Speaker 2: you skip social occasions. So you're saying, no, I can't

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Speaker 2: come to dinner. No, sorry, I can't eat out breakfast

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Speaker 2: because you fear having to eat food that you haven't

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Speaker 2: prepared yourself. Or you bring all of your food to

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Speaker 2: a social occasion, so you go to someone's birthday and

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Speaker 2: you take your food in a top work container so

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Speaker 2: you can eat that. Second sign, your skin is really dull,

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Speaker 2: it's breaking out, your hair's bailing out, basically, sort of

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Speaker 2: like vitamin and nutrient deficiencies. Number three, if you're a female,

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Speaker 2: if you've lost your period or it's very irregular, or

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Speaker 2: if it used to be regular and now it's really irregular,

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Speaker 2: or there's just changes within your period of cycle, or

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Speaker 2: you've lost it all together. Number four is you're constantly

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Speaker 2: tied or you're constantly feeling very cold. Number five, you've

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Speaker 2: got recurrent injuries or sicknesses. Number six, you only have

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Speaker 2: a very limited range of foods that are quote unquote

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Speaker 2: safe or you're able to eat. Number seven, you never

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Speaker 2: ever have cake, chocolate, an alcoholic drink, or a sugar drink.

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Speaker 2: Number eight, you're exercising for more than about one and

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Speaker 2: a half to two hours a day and you're not

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Speaker 2: a professional athlete. If you're a professional athlete, sure you

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Speaker 2: might have three, four, five, six hours of training a day.

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Speaker 2: But if you're just an average person like Susie and I,

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Speaker 2: we have jobs, we have families, spending anywhere more than

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Speaker 2: about an hour and a half to two hours exercising

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Speaker 2: per day could sort of be a sign that you're

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Speaker 2: healthy eating and your healthy lifestyle has gone too far.

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Speaker 2: Signed Number nine is that people are constantly commenting on

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Speaker 2: how thin you look or how much weight that you've

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Speaker 2: lost recently. And number ten is that you're not happy

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Speaker 2: with your body no matter what you do, no matter

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Speaker 2: how much you weigh, no matter how much you eat

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Speaker 2: or how much you exercise, You've always constantly feeling like

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Speaker 2: you can do more, you should do more, you should

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Speaker 2: look differently. So those are sort of ten signs that

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Speaker 2: maybe things have gone a little bit too far and

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of this obsession with health that

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Speaker 2: may have gone towards more of an unhelpful place. Put

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Speaker 2: it that way. So have you seen many clients with

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Speaker 2: orthorexia recently? I've seen it.

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Speaker 1: I've seen a handful, And I'll describe a couple of

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Speaker 1: the key clinical presentations, and I think we should really

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Speaker 1: stress that when it comes to clinical eating disorders, so

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Speaker 1: Anorexinivosa Bolivia Neivosa. There's some very very strict criteria that

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Speaker 1: define that. So, for example, anorexix need to have had

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Speaker 1: several months with the lack of menstrual cycle, vastly different

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Speaker 1: view of their body, avoidance of food, extremely low body weight,

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Speaker 1: be in my below seventeen point five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of very specific clinical indicators of

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Speaker 1: those diagnosable clinical conditions. So the thing with authorexia, it

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Speaker 1: kind of sits in between because often the present is

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Speaker 1: they're not significantly underweight, but there's a real obsession and

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Speaker 1: a rigidity around it, and my experience it's often misplaced

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Speaker 1: anxiety that comes out in controlled or obsessive food and

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Speaker 1: eating behavior and exercise behavior. So a classic presentation would

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Speaker 1: be a typically young, sort of twenty thirty year old

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Speaker 1: female who is slim and fit and healthy but wants

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Speaker 1: to be slimmer, wants to lose that final two to

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Speaker 1: three kilos, which is debatable if it's there. They're already training,

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Speaker 1: often multiple sessions a day, so this is often my goal,

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Speaker 1: well not often because I don't want to put everybody

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Speaker 1: in that group, but these are goals who perhaps will

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Speaker 1: do a CrossFit early five am every day and then

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Speaker 1: come and train again in the afternoon, plus doing their steps,

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Speaker 1: and then on a really tight calorie restriction, so eating

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Speaker 1: eight hundred one thousand calories, so chronically calorie deprived and

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Speaker 1: not ticking the box, and a number of their key nutrients.

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Speaker 2: Very tired.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're binging on alcohol or or food because they're

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Speaker 1: feeling so restrained. So there's a few key markers of it.

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Speaker 1: One is a rigidity around diet and exercise, very focused

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Speaker 1: on clean eating, so quite rigid in the patterns of eating,

432
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: so every day, say way, protein shake, every day, this much.

433
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 1: It's so very very strict with their self prescribed diet

434
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: and often quite unhappy, you know, low mood and stressed

435
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: and perfectionistic characteristics and anxiety in many cases. So it's

436
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: more it's a slippery slope, isn't it, Because sometimes we

437
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 1: start with healthy eating behavior and then we think more

438
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: is better. And as we've discussed before, it's not a competition.

439
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: You can't win the prize for being the healthiest eater.

440
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: And even if you do, even if you tick the

441
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: box on the healthiest eating, it doesn't guarantee any outcome.

442
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,160
Speaker 1: You know, the physiology and the body is a lot

443
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 1: more complicated than that, so it's a complex issue. Certainly,

444
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 1: in many cases, I would say it's not only a

445
00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 1: dietary presentation. Often the referral is going back to GPS

446
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 1: or psychologists to work on the underlying driver, which is

447
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 1: often some psychology or anxiety or stress or trauma that's

448
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: driving that more obsessive behavior. So certainly alone not a

449
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: nutrition problem, but I think it also can present with

450
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 1: teenage girls who start to eat healthy and become more

451
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: and more obsessed moving through those school years.

452
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 2: So they are all little markers for parents.

453
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: Listening with teenage girls who sort of tend to be

454
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: a bit obsessive, become very body conscious, going to the

455
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,959
Speaker 1: gym more and more frequently, because yeah, it's a slippery

456
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: slope to full blown eating disorder and becoming quite clinically

457
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: underweight and doing damage to the body and resulting in

458
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: things like stress factors as a result of chronically localcium

459
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: intake and impacts on metabolic rate because of chronically low

460
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 1: So there are a few signs of it, and it

461
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: does absolutely present, and you can really benefit from some

462
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: nutrition therapy around hitting baseline calorie requirements and nutrient targets

463
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: as a minimum, not overtraining and underfuel, which is common.

464
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm seeing someone doing more than a

465
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: couple of hours of intense exercise and they're not elite athletes,

466
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 1: I'd be sort of questioning the driver for that, and

467
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: certainly looking at things like the bloods and nutrient deficiencies,

468
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: things like B twelve iron, zinc can all be impacted

469
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: thyroid long term, and of course mood. You know, we

470
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: know that mental health issues are so prevalent. We know

471
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: that it getting to the right practitioner and the right

472
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: support around it, which we've spoken about before. Nutrition can

473
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,880
Speaker 1: be a big part of that intervention. That's some support,

474
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, a really good therapist, psychologists to manage some

475
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: of those other drivers can be a really big important

476
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: part of it. So I like that checklist because I

477
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: think it's just a reminder when things get taken a

478
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 1: little bit too far, and yeah, it's just the pree

479
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: slope to full blown so disordered eating. You know, inevitably

480
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: well can lead to eating disorders and they very serious,

481
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: so you know, worth of a discussion, particularly for as

482
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: I see most commonly that the over trainers and underfuelers.

483
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I just thought of too more off the

484
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: top of my head, Susie really being obsessed with like

485
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 2: ingredient less and nutrition labels. Of course, in the Nutrition

486
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 2: Couch we recommend people spend some time reading the ingredient

487
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: lists and reading the nutrition labels. Of course, we always

488
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 2: want to find those healthy eruptions. But when it comes

489
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: to soul foods, when it comes to a celebration, when

490
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 2: it comes to eating out at a restaurant, if places

491
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 2: use palm oil, if places use sugar in cake, if

492
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 2: people you know, want to have a glass of champagne

493
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: with their dinner, all those things are absolutely okay in

494
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 2: you know, small amounts or in moderate portion sizes. So

495
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 2: it's not to say that if we go to a

496
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: restaurant and we ask, you know what type of oil

497
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: the chef uses and we say, well, I'm not eating that.

498
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: I couldn't possibly eat that. Or if we say, oh,

499
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 2: what's in this dessert and they say it's got you know, sugar,

500
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: and you ask is it white refined sugar? Then you

501
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: say there's no way I could put that food into

502
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 2: my body. There's sort of some signs and symptoms, and

503
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: we become very obsessive with checking every single ingredient that

504
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,239
Speaker 2: goes into our food and every single ingredient on our

505
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 2: nutrition labels as well. So that's probably a big one

506
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 2: for me where I've had a few clients who have

507
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 2: absolutely black or white with different ingredients in different nutrients

508
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 2: in the foodsolutely won't eat this. And fair enough, if

509
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 2: there's an ethical or a personal view of it, you know,

510
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: say you might be plant based, so you might be

511
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 2: veg and that's absolutely okay. That's you know, a whole

512
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: other area in it stuff. If you don't want to

513
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 2: eat animal prep products, that's absolutely okay. But if you're

514
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: avoiding an ingredient, y of avoiding it something in a

515
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: food because you just feel that it's completely unhealthy. There's

516
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 2: just a fine line between that, isn't there sus a

517
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: fine line between you know, wanting to choose better products

518
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 2: and then being almost fearful of eating certain ingredients. Of course,

519
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: we're not saying you should eat soft foods regularly all

520
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 2: of the time, but it's absolutely okay to have some

521
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,239
Speaker 2: you know, white refined sugar in a birthday cake. If

522
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: it's somebody's birthday, it a bit of a celebration or

523
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: something like that. So I really think that obsessiveness around

524
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 2: the ingredient list and very black or white in terms

525
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: of the foods that you will and won't eat is

526
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 2: a big sign. And the other one is really, I mean,

527
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 2: the most common sign of orthorex there, I think, Susie,

528
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: is that it negatively affects your life. So it's causing you,

529
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: you know, more stress and more anxiety. It's socially isolating you.

530
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: You've got your friends and your family really worried about you,

531
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 2: asking lots of questions, are you doing okay? Perhaps they're

532
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: suggesting that you should talk to somebody. I think really

533
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: the biggest sign is that it's negatively impacting your life

534
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: in some way. If you're canceling plans with your family,

535
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: or you running late to work because you had to

536
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 2: spend an extra you know, twenty minutes out on your run,

537
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: those sorts of things are negatively impacting your life. And

538
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: I really do think that it's time to take a

539
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: step back and sort of go and chat to a professional.

540
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 2: And probably the top line professional when it comes to

541
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: something like orthorexia would be a psychologist. So absolutely that's

542
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 2: the first point of call we'd recommend, although you know,

543
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: having a chat to your dietician or having a chat

544
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 2: to your doctor of course is a good idea as well,

545
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: But for I think the majority of people suffering from orthorexia,

546
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: it really would be a psychologist that is able to

547
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: help them probably the most.

548
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: And I think the other one I see a lot

549
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: is obsessive calorie counting and monitoring on something like my

550
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: fitness power, where there's just streams and streams of data

551
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: and over analysis. And what always strikes me is that

552
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: those monitoring apps, they're great, but they're also a bit inaccurate.

553
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,239
Speaker 1: You know, it's probably twent two percent in accuracy, So

554
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: people who are really focused on those numbers and thinking, oh,

555
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: I ate five more grams of carb today, when really

556
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: it's probably an error margin anyway for any food that's

557
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: in there. So that's another warning sign for me. When

558
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: people obsessively calorie count with no end in sight for

559
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: no other reason than just to feel in control, that

560
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: can be a sign that, you know, focusing a little

561
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: bit too much, and it particularly getting into headspaced hunger

562
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: rather than what your body's telling you and overriding things

563
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: like fatigue and training regardless and ignoring sort of physiological

564
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: signs and then cognitively controlling things. So yeah, I think

565
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: there might sort of risk groups. It's the young women

566
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: and then also the girls' teenage girls who go through

567
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: sometimes that focus on what they're eating and doing exercise wise,

568
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 1: so it can be a real concern for parents all

569
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: right ly and well for our.

570
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 2: Final segment of their show.

571
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: Another pertinent topic at the moment given that everyone we

572
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: know is sick, because we do get a lot of

573
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: questions around supplements, and naturally we are dietitians, so we

574
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: love natural food supplements because we always think that they're best.

575
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: But when we do take a look at the evidence

576
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: around cold and flu, there is a handful of supplements

577
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: with some evidence behind them to support either improvements in

578
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: immune function or reduction in symptoms. So, off the top

579
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: of my head, you know, the ones we were asked

580
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: about was more magnesium. Now, whilst there's some evidence to

581
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: show that there's about ten to fifteen percent of Australians

582
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: who have a low intake of magnesium, and magnesium is

583
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: a nutrient found in leafy green veggies, nuts and seeds,

584
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: whole grains, and often people are relatively low because of

585
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 1: high requirements and low intake of fresh food and whole grains.

586
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: The truth is there's not a lot of evidence around

587
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: magnesium supplementation and immune function. You know, it's more around

588
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: sleep quality restless legs when you take a look at it.

589
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: But the handful that there is evidence and I know

590
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: this because I had to research it recently for a piece.

591
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: There is some evidence for concentrated garlic supplementation. Now, obviously

592
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: it's ideal to have the garlic in natural form, but

593
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: may not always be overly palatable to down a few

594
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: cloves of garlic each day, so if you prefer to

595
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: take it in a supplementary form. It's been used for

596
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: many years as an anti bacterial and anti microbial supplement

597
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: and so indeed shows improvement in the immune function.

598
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: The same for olive.

599
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: Leaf extract as a high level antioxide. There is some

600
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: evidence for that. Echinata is another one. There is a

601
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: little bit of evidence to help reduce the duration of

602
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: a cold, as is the case with vitamin C. So

603
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: vitamin C at high doses won't stop you getting the cold,

604
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: but it can slightly reduce the length of it.

605
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: And zinc.

606
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 1: Now, zinc is a controversial one because when we take

607
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 1: a look at some of the data, particularly around COVID,

608
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: high level zinc supplementation in an elemental form was linked

609
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: to reduction in COVID symptoms. But zinc is as a

610
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: nutrient of mineral can be quite dangerous at high doses.

611
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: So it's certainly certainly not when I encourage people to

612
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: routinely supplement. Rather, I would be interested in making sure

613
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: people get enough dietary intake of zinc from lean red

614
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: meat and whole grains and nuts regularly, rather than encouraging

615
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: zinc supplementation without warranting it. But in the cases of garlic,

616
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: oliveleath extract echination and vitamin C, I wouldn't be con

617
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: learned about supplementing those because there's really no concern about

618
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: overdosing in the same way that you would be concerned

619
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: about something like zinc or iron. So yeah, if you

620
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: don't mind popping a few pills, there is a little

621
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: bit of evidence. Do I take any of them? No,

622
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: I don't take any supplements because I'm just not a

623
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: supplement person. But if some people like them and want to,

624
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: these are the ones that you could potentially spend your

625
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: money on with a little bit of evidence behind them,

626
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: as opposed to the ones that we normally see, which

627
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: are spriaked all the time. So what are the ones

628
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: we see like the greens, powders, and you know a

629
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: lot of those I think are just money makers. I

630
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: certainly wouldn't be encouraging those. I'd much rather someone has

631
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: a veggie juice. But if you want to pop a

632
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: couple of garlic tablets won't hurt you. So that's where

633
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: the evidence sits. What do you suggest for people when

634
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: they're warding off the colds and flu?

635
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: I personally, I do take a couple of sophomores. I

636
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: do go hopefully extract and for me, I get my

637
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: vitamin C from food. So I will disclose that I'm

638
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: working with zespri Kiwi fruit at the moment. Did you

639
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: guys know that it is very good, the deliciousest of

640
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: song called variety in particular that we get an Australia,

641
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: But did you guys know that one that qiufruit provides

642
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: one hundred percent of your vitamin C intake a day.

643
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: So whatever my clients go, oh yeah, and I feel

644
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: like I'm coming down with something, I'm going to start

645
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: taking some vitamin C supplement. As a hold up, let's

646
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: just take a kiwi fruit a it can count as

647
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: a bit of a snack. We're getting it a bit

648
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: of a fruit serve. There's some soluble fiber in there. Like,

649
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: we're getting way more benefits than just popping some vitamin

650
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: C tablets. And it's a lot more cost effective as well.

651
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: So queufruits where it's at. If you struggle with things

652
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: like constipation, lead the skin on, you can actually eat

653
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: the skin as well. Just give it a good wash.

654
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: So one kiri for it a day, one hundred percent

655
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: of your vitamin C intake. So my little cold and

656
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: flu bubble is basically a qui fruit a day, good

657
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: quality diets, some good chicken and vegetable soup, some olive

658
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 2: leaf astract And I actually am a fan of zinc

659
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: suzi because there is actually some research behind it, but

660
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: like you said, I only really recommend my clients take

661
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: it for five to seven days. So where the research

662
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: really does sit with zinc is that zinc lozenges, and

663
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: it's really important to have the lozenge of form so

664
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: it coats the mouth because a lot of the bacteria

665
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: starts in the mouth, So you really don't want to

666
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: just be taking a supplement. You want something to the mouth.

667
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: So LOZENGEU is what a lot of the research has

668
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: really been studied with, and it can actually help to

669
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: decrease the duration and the severity of a cold. But

670
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: of course the amount is very, very important, So a

671
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: lot of the research really focuses on about seventy five

672
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: milligrams a day of zinc in las and form. It's

673
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: a hell of a lot of zinc, and actually finding

674
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 2: a supplement or a brand that has that amount in

675
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: it is basically non existent, Like you're gonna have to

676
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: take two, three, four tablets of something. So this is

677
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: definitely something that we would only really recommend for healthy adults.

678
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: You should probably double check with your GP. I wouldn't

679
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: recommend it for pregnant women, wouldn't recommend it for breastfeeding,

680
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: wouldn't recommend it if you've got any other sort of

681
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: health concerns or issues all that sort of thing, and

682
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: very short durations as well. So really where the research

683
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: shows is that you need to take it on like

684
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: day one of a cold. If you're four or five,

685
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: six days into a cold, you've got COVID anything like that.

686
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: It's probably really not going to do any sort of

687
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: impact if you already day in. It really needs to

688
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: be on day one that you first develop those symptoms,

689
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: and then I generally recommend my clients take it as

690
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 2: sort of anywhere between three to seven days, and we

691
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: cut it off after that. Zinc's not something that I

692
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: would recommend, particularly such a high dose of it. I

693
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't recommend just taking it in order to try and

694
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: prevent something, you know, like I have a lot of

695
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: clients who say, oh, well, I've got a big presentation

696
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: coming up at work, I'm just going to take some

697
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: supplements to make sure I don't get sick. A high

698
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: dose amount of zinc isn't something that I'd be recommending

699
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: you take as a preventative thing, because where the research

700
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: really does show as that does help to prevent and

701
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: decrease the duration and the severity of a cold. So

702
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: the research is really around that seventy five milligrams a day,

703
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: So a lot of brands you're going to need multiple

704
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 2: tablets or multiple lozenges of that. I'm just looking at

705
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 2: one of the systematic reviews I've pulled up Susie and

706
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: there were five trials included in this with a total

707
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: daily zinc dose of more than seventy five milligrams. There

708
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: were no sorry, five trials that had a total daily

709
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: dose of less than seventy five milligrams, and all five

710
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: trials found zero effect in terms of the zinc and

711
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: reducing the duration and severity of a cold. But once

712
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: we increase the dose over seventy five milligrams a day,

713
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: there was a forty two percent reduction in the duration

714
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: of a cold. So that's you know, for a lot

715
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: of people, that's probably a significant impact. So it is

716
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: something well worth trialing, but I think it has to

717
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: be for a very very short period of time and

718
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: only really in the healthy adult population. I definitely wouldn't

719
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: be giving this to children or teens or anything like

720
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: that because it is such a high dose.

721
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: That's a really good point that the supplement doses for

722
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: children and teens. You know, you can't just extrapolate. And

723
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: I think that's the concern when you're having multiple supplements

724
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: as well, or even using protein powder, is that you

725
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: can be getting nutrients from several sources, which isn't always

726
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: a great idea, but I love I think that if

727
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: I always give kiwei's as well, Like eat a kiwai fruit,

728
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: like you get to get a massive dose. You're a

729
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: million times better to get it from fresh fruits and vegetables,

730
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: and then you get the synergistic effect of all of

731
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: the antioxidants and nutrients in that produce. But I have

732
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: to be honest, I can't do the skin like I

733
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: don't know, like a kiwifruit, like biting into it like

734
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: an apple like I see all these dieticians posting that,

735
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I don't know.

736
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: I can't do that. So it's pretty good blended into

737
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: like a green juice.

738
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you put it into a smoothie maybe, But I'm

739
00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: a bit fan. Actually, if I'm feeling a little bit

740
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: and well and I have had a bit of throat

741
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: issues this last couple of weeks, I just get a

742
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: green juice, so I downstairs from where I work.

743
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: I do that.

744
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: I do beetroot, celery, carrot or I do that. I

745
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: think the slim grin at top juice, which I really like,

746
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: is got like cucumber, kale, bit of apple, and it's

747
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: about eighty calories. And I just load on the juice,

748
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, mixed veggie and a little bit of fruit.

749
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: That's one of the best ways to get a good

750
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: dose of vitamin see nutrients without Yeah, I just maybe

751
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: I'm too tired. I wouldn't pay all that money. But

752
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: you're right, olive leaf extract does have some evidence towards it.

753
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: So interesting that you take that all right. Well, on

754
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: that note, that brings us to the end of the

755
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: Nutrition Couch for another Sunday.

756
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: If you haven't done.

757
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: So already, please subscribe to have us delivered every Sunday

758
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: and Wednesday morning. We'd love to hear from you on

759
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,239
Speaker 1: social media. We're getting ready for our tour event coming out,

760
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: which we will announce very soon, so keep an eye

761
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: on that for dates and locations and ticket sales. And

762
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: we will see you on Wednesday for our regular product drop.

763
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: So keep warm and cold and flu free.

764
00:33:58,680 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next week.

765
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: SPUs Spin, Spin spe Storm or s