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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, just by changing the space where they play creates

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Speaker 2: newness and curiosity and fresh perspectives.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 3: Well, we're breathing easier because Brisbane left lockdown on Sunday afternoon.

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Speaker 3: But for anyone in Sydney, in those local government areas

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Speaker 3: in cans and for everybody in Victoria, all of Victoria.

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Speaker 3: It's not just Melbourne, it's all of Victoria again. Wow,

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Speaker 3: it's our hard goes out to you as these lockdowns continue.

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Speaker 3: We are Justin and Kylie Colson. I've got a PhD

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Speaker 3: in psychology, I've written six books about raising happy families.

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Speaker 3: Kylie Mundo, our six daughters and just I was going

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Speaker 3: to say love of my life, but that was going

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Speaker 3: to sound cheesy and corny and everyone would have gone,

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Speaker 3: or do we have to listen to a podcast like this?

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Speaker 3: So I won't say that, but you know it. We

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Speaker 3: have had a lot of requests from people who are saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: we need help. We're stuck in lockdown and we've got

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Speaker 3: toddlers and they're driving us insane.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. I did a little bit of research

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Speaker 2: on this and I found a paper from the University

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Speaker 2: of Melbourne.

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Speaker 3: Hang on, hanger. I just want to highlight whenever I

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Speaker 3: pull research out, you roll your eyes and say, oh gosh,

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Speaker 3: you're getting all academic on me. And now you've done

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Speaker 3: some research. Oh look, I'm a love very impressed.

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Speaker 2: I'm loving doctor Jenny chester Is because she's made this

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Speaker 2: so easy for me to read, and there's lots of

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Speaker 2: big pictures.

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Speaker 3: So you've done some research, doctor Jenny Chester's from the

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Speaker 3: University of Melbourne, Melbourne. What she found?

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Speaker 2: So she did some research on life satisfaction during twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, so during the lockdowns during okay, pandemic stuff.

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Speaker 2: Jenny chester Is found that overall in twenty twenty, parents

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Speaker 2: were just as satisfied as non parents.

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Speaker 3: Okay. When you say just as satisfied, you mean everyone

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Speaker 3: was stressing out together.

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Speaker 2: Life is satisfaction was down the tubes for everyone across

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Speaker 2: the board, Okay, whereas obviously previous to pandemic times. The

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Speaker 2: research would highly suggest that people who weren't parents life

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Speaker 2: satisfaction was a lot higher.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I got to stop. You just there for

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Speaker 3: a sec when you say that this is something that's

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Speaker 3: usually quite surprising to people. You said obviously, but most

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Speaker 3: people are like, no, this is not obvious. Hang on,

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Speaker 3: I'm a parent. I'm happy because I'm a parent. But

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Speaker 3: the research has shown since the nineteen eighties, there's been

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Speaker 3: dozens of studies now that show that life satisfaction decreases

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Speaker 3: when we have kids because we don't get to sleep in,

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Speaker 3: we don't get to have Saturday brunch with friends. We

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Speaker 3: don't get to and I stay up as late as

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Speaker 3: we want and not have any consequences because the kids

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Speaker 3: are going to wake up the next day. There's wet beds,

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Speaker 3: there's all the dramas of toddlers. All that sort of

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Speaker 3: stuff happens. So life satisfaction actually decreases when we have kids,

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Speaker 3: especially during those toddly years. And what she's saying is

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Speaker 3: that was the case in twenty nineteen, but once the

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Speaker 3: pandemic hit in twenty twenty, parents and nonparents life satisfaction

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Speaker 3: is the same. Down the tubes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One thing that she did highlight, which fits in beautifully

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Speaker 2: with what we're talking about today, is the acknowledgment that

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Speaker 2: parents with children under one had quite they dealt with

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Speaker 2: the pandemic quite well. Okay, parents with children over five,

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Speaker 2: as in school age children are dealing with the pandemic

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Speaker 2: pretty well. But toddlers and preschooler families are really struggling.

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Speaker 2: If any group is being hit hard, it's these parents

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Speaker 2: because for the most part, they're left to their own devices.

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Speaker 2: You know, babies. We take care of babies day and

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Speaker 2: day out, whether we're working or not working, and we

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Speaker 2: know what we need to do. Our school age students

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Speaker 2: are being schooled in some form, whether it be worksheets

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Speaker 2: being sent home, or they've got online.

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Speaker 3: Classes or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But this little group in the middle of toddlers and preschoolers,

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Speaker 2: and you think about these little human beings, they are

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Speaker 2: the most curious, busy people that exist.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so todd I mean children. Humans are wired to

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Speaker 3: move their bodies and to be curious about the world.

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Speaker 3: And you're not going to get an age group that

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Speaker 3: exemplifies that better than your two to five year olds

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Speaker 3: or even you're one to five year olds. So I

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Speaker 3: think we really need to help parents in this podcast

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Speaker 3: who have got toddlers, especially if you're a parent of

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Speaker 3: children who are currently locked down because of these obviously

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Speaker 3: government regulations trying to keep COVID suppressed. What do we do?

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Speaker 3: I actually I love that you found that research. We

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Speaker 3: will link to it in the show notes so that

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Speaker 3: people can read it. But what I also love is

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Speaker 3: that normally I'm kind of running the podcast because I've

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Speaker 3: got the PhD in psychology, but your background is early childcare.

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Speaker 3: You know this area probably better than me in terms

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Speaker 3: of how to juggle, manage, stimulate, get through the hard

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Speaker 3: times of having toddlers when there's so much going on.

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Speaker 2: So in my previous life I used to actually run

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Speaker 2: a toddler's room in a shock center.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right. So if you Missus Coulson, an

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Speaker 3: expert in toddlers and preschoolers, were to say anything, what

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Speaker 3: advice would you give to parents if they're trying to

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Speaker 3: juggle life at home with toddlers and preschoolers, especially if

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Speaker 3: they're trying to work.

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Speaker 2: So the first thing I'd acknowledge is I don't think

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Speaker 2: there is a right answer here. This is such a

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Speaker 2: challenging situation that we found ourselves in at the moment,

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Speaker 2: and every family is going to have to deal with

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Speaker 2: this in whatever way is going to work for them.

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Speaker 2: So I think my first thing would be throw the

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Speaker 2: rule book out the window.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to say that we should throw

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Speaker 3: the rule book out, but I do reckon we can

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Speaker 3: give some tips and ideas, but I actually think that

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Speaker 3: it's the wrong question to ask in some ways, like

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Speaker 3: if we think about what is developmentally appropriate for toddlers

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Speaker 3: and preschoolers, because this is the group that's struggling the most.

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Speaker 3: Parents of this group is are the ones who are

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Speaker 3: in the greatest turmoil to say, how am I supposed

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Speaker 3: to keep my toddler okay, while I'm trying to work

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Speaker 3: and we're stuck in the house.

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Speaker 2: Or I'm not working, but I am the mother of

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Speaker 2: three older children who are trying to learn from home, right,

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Speaker 2: how do I do that?

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Speaker 3: And the answer is you aren't. Developmentally if these kids

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Speaker 3: are designed to have a constant need for simulation, a

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Speaker 3: constant need to be moving, they're physically active, they want

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Speaker 3: to be into everything, they need NonStop supervision at this age.

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Speaker 3: That's actually how they're designed biologically. What you're saying is,

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Speaker 3: how do we undo the biological reality the developmental facts

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Speaker 3: of toddlerhood? And preschool years. And if you're listening to

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Speaker 3: this and you're a parent of a title or preschool

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Speaker 3: or I think that the honest answer, I don't care

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Speaker 3: what you read on the blogs. The honest answer is

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Speaker 3: you can't do it in an optimized, developmentally appropriate way.

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Speaker 3: Just we've got to let go of that and recognize this.

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Speaker 3: Can I say sucks on the podcast. It's my podcast.

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Speaker 3: I can say what I want. This sucks if you're

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Speaker 3: a toddler, and it sucks if you're a parent of

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Speaker 3: a toddler or a preschooler because developmentally what's going on

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Speaker 3: is not right for them. I think that's why the

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Speaker 3: research shows that well being is plummeting across the nation,

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Speaker 3: especially where there are lockdowns, because especially if you're in

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Speaker 3: kids his age, it's so tough. So let's take a

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Speaker 3: quick break and when we come back, let's give the

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Speaker 3: very best tips and tricks we can while still acknowledging

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Speaker 3: the developmental realities that of're up against.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: For a happier family, try a Happy Families membership, because

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Speaker 2: a happy family doesn't just happen.

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Speaker 3: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we

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Speaker 2: are talking about some really, really time poor parents, parents

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Speaker 2: of toddlers. This has got to be such a tricky

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Speaker 2: space with lockdowns, so.

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Speaker 3: We're going to give you some answers now. This is

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Speaker 3: the best we've got based on the fact that your

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Speaker 3: toddlers are designed to move, require supervision, and are curious

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Speaker 3: and therefore and not going to let you get your

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Speaker 3: work done. They're not going to let you do home

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Speaker 3: learning with the big kids, they're not going to let

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Speaker 3: the house stay tidy, and lockdown is so hard number one, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: I think acceptance has to be number one.

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Speaker 3: It's really easy to say acceptance, but when they pull

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Speaker 3: the TopWare out of the topwar cupboard for the fourteenth

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Speaker 3: time today, it's really hard to be accepting. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're right, we need to acknowledge that we can't do

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Speaker 3: it all and have it all and be at all,

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Speaker 3: especially right now.

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Speaker 2: And the house won't be clean, yep, And you're not

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Speaker 2: going to get all of the washing done.

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Speaker 3: But that kind of feels okay for a day and

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Speaker 3: even two or three days, but after a week you

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Speaker 3: kind of crack it right. Yeah, you look at it

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Speaker 3: and go. But anyway, that's number one. I really like

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Speaker 3: something that we were talking about ahead of time that

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Speaker 3: you said in terms of their need for novelty.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that we often do at

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Speaker 2: home is we will have a toy room or the

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Speaker 2: kids will have a toy chest.

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Speaker 3: All of their toys are.

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Speaker 2: Available to them all of the time, yep, and it

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Speaker 2: becomes mundane.

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Speaker 3: It just becomes yeah, seeing it all done, it all yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so one of the things that can be really

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Speaker 2: really helpful, especially when you are stuck at home all

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Speaker 2: day every day, is to actually cull the toy box

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Speaker 2: and just leave a few things out each day. Maybe

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Speaker 2: even Fiene, what you're going to do. So today is

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Speaker 2: dinosaur days, So it's just dinosaurs and blocks, that's what's

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Speaker 2: available today, and not keep that in the toy room

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Speaker 2: where you would normally play with them. Let's take the

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Speaker 2: blocks outside today. What can we do with them outside?

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Speaker 2: Or there's a nice sunny spot in the loundroom. They

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Speaker 2: can play with the blocks in the loundroom. Just by

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Speaker 2: changing the space where they play creates newness and curiosity

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Speaker 2: and fresh perspectives.

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Speaker 3: So it's about novelty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, yep.

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Speaker 3: Reduce the number of toys, put them in a different spot,

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Speaker 3: engage with the kids with it. I know that it's

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Speaker 3: hard to juggle work and home learning all that sort

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Speaker 3: of stuff when you've got the toddles, but this is

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Speaker 3: the reality. So change the toys around a novelty, I

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Speaker 3: think is a really useful tip. You've got a second

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Speaker 3: tip as well that I think really really nails what

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Speaker 3: our kids need during this very difficult time.

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Speaker 2: So I don't have a toddler anymore at a seven

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Speaker 2: year old, but she loves being in my space. And

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Speaker 2: toddlers and preschoolers are exactly the same. They just they

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Speaker 2: want to be with us, and when we don't tap

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Speaker 2: into that, what ends up happening is they're kind of

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Speaker 2: under our feet all the time and they drive us crazy.

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Speaker 3: My favorite quote unplanned, but you just said they're under

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Speaker 3: our feet and it drives us crazy. One of my

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Speaker 3: favorite quotes is when your toddlers are in your arms,

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Speaker 3: they can't possibly be underfoot. Oh isn't that awesome? It

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Speaker 3: makes me want to cry to be saying it.

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Speaker 2: Well, my tip is kind of what taps into beautifully

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Speaker 2: to that let's utilize that desire to be close and

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Speaker 2: let them be your helper.

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Speaker 3: I know that it's really.

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Speaker 2: Really hard when a two year old wants to wash

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Speaker 2: the dishes, or when they want to help you, you know,

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Speaker 2: empty the dish washer, or empty the topp ofwar draw

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Speaker 2: for the fifteenth time.

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Speaker 3: Or complete the spreadsheet for boss. Let them help you

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Speaker 3: with your excel file.

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Speaker 2: But what are things that they can do or learn

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Speaker 2: to do through the process of you engaging them in

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Speaker 2: helping you to achieve what you need to do. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so we've got Maybe it's they just hand you the

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Speaker 2: pegs as you hang the washing out. Maybe it's they

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Speaker 2: can sort the socks, make matching pairs. They don't have

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Speaker 2: to fold them, they just need to match them and

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Speaker 2: then you can fold them as they go. Maybe it's

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Speaker 2: you can hand them the t shirts and they can

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Speaker 2: place them into the drawer. Just finding things that are

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Speaker 2: age appropriate for them and makes them feel like they

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Speaker 2: are being helpful.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So two big ideas. Number one novelty change things up,

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Speaker 3: move things around, put them into new spaces, doing old things,

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Speaker 3: or reducing their access to everything so that something becomes newer.

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Speaker 3: Novel And number two interaction and involvement in whatever way

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Speaker 3: you can. So let's recognize if you're not working, that's

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Speaker 3: going to be a whole lot easier than if you

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Speaker 3: are working. When I say working, I mean receiving an

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Speaker 3: income and you've got job responsibilities outside of the home.

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Speaker 3: If you're an employee, that's going to be really hard.

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Speaker 3: If you're working from home and you're trying to get

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Speaker 3: the kids involved and you're trying to change it up

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Speaker 3: and get them playing, and again, this goes back to

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Speaker 3: the developmental reality. If you're dealing with toddlers and preschoolers,

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Speaker 3: you kind of can't do much here because they need

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Speaker 3: your involvement, they need your presence, they need constant supervision.

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Speaker 3: They're active, they're curious, and that's going to be the

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Speaker 3: way that it is. So I reckon we just need

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Speaker 3: to give a couple of tips and tricks to parents

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Speaker 3: who are working with toddlers, given that there are no

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Speaker 3: real answers. I've got a couple of things. But what

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Speaker 3: do you reckon?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that there's going to have to be

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Speaker 2: a whole heap of give and take. If you've got

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Speaker 2: two working adults in the home, then you might need

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Speaker 2: to kind of schedule your work hours around each other, yep,

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Speaker 2: so that somebody is able to supervise a totally needs supervising.

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Speaker 2: You can't leave them, and.

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Speaker 3: Then pray that you've got bosses who are open to

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Speaker 3: variations in productivity or variations in what time stuff gets done.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes you actually don't have that flexibility right, and

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you have to work it out.

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Speaker 2: So my suggestion in those situations is again, finding something

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Speaker 2: novel that the kids. You know, when we go to church,

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Speaker 2: I pick activities that Emily is not allowed to play

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Speaker 2: with any other time. And so if you have to

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Speaker 2: have a toddler at home in your office, finding an

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Speaker 2: activity that they haven't they actually haven't played with before

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Speaker 2: will keep them entertained for a lot longer than offering

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Speaker 2: them something that they play with every day and just

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Speaker 2: keeping them close. You have to be able to supervise them.

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Speaker 2: You have to know where they are if you don't,

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Speaker 2: and if they can just hear you talking to them,

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Speaker 2: you know, every now and again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they just want to be close.

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Speaker 3: They want to know that they're part of your life.

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Speaker 3: I think that's great. So on top of giving them

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Speaker 3: novel things to do, and try to be flexible with

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Speaker 3: work where that's possible. My only other suggestion, and this

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Speaker 3: is going to sound really pathetic and not work for

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Speaker 3: many people, but you got to preserve your sanity. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: you got to check the rule book out. We know

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Speaker 3: developmentally that kids need certain things and if we can't

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Speaker 3: provide those, then they need stimulation in some other way.

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Speaker 3: And realistically, it's going to be the eypad, or it's

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Speaker 3: going to be the telly. As an expert, I can't

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Speaker 3: recommend that that's what you do. But if you're circumstances

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Speaker 3: are such that you just need to get some work

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Speaker 3: done and you have no other option, then stick them

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Speaker 3: in front of the TV. At least keeps them safe.

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Speaker 3: It means they're not going to go and play with

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Speaker 3: the knives in the kitchen, or go and eat the

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Speaker 3: laundry powder or anything like that. And I just but

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Speaker 3: if you're going to stick them in front of the telly,

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Speaker 3: let them know what you're doing, why you're doing it,

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Speaker 3: and how long you're doing it for, and then give

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Speaker 3: them transition time. Because kids have these great big I mean,

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Speaker 3: they lose the plot when you tell them to get

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Speaker 3: off the Telly, they get so cranky about it. So

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Speaker 3: if you say, I'm going to do this for this

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Speaker 3: long and we're going to set the timer and this

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Speaker 3: is why, and when the timer goes off, it's going

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Speaker 3: to mean five minutes to go, and then I'll come

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Speaker 3: and check on you with two minutes to go, and

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Speaker 3: then we're going to turn it off and then invest

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Speaker 3: in them. At the end of that one hour or

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Speaker 3: that forty minutes or that however long it is. Invest

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Speaker 3: in them. Take them for the walk, play with the dog,

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Speaker 3: get outside on the slipper, dip or the swing, do

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Speaker 3: something active and physical with them to help them to

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Speaker 3: overcome this transition away from the addictive nature of the screen.

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Speaker 2: I think that leads in beautifully to our last suggestion

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Speaker 2: is just mapping out your day. You cannot possibly work

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Speaker 2: nine to five if you've got a toddler at home

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Speaker 2: and you're in charge of their supervision as well as working. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: nine to five is not going to work doing time

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Speaker 2: chunks and actually chunking out time. Okay, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: work seriously for an hour on this project, and in

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Speaker 2: that hour, my toddler's going to watch ABC Kids or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and then I'm going to take half an hour break

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Speaker 2: and we're going to go for a walk to the park,

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Speaker 2: or we're going to play, playto or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 2: Just chunk out your day, so you're not going to

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Speaker 2: get nine to five, but you might get four solid

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Speaker 2: hours based on your time chunking.

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Speaker 3: The take home message kids at that age, you're curious,

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Speaker 3: they need supervision, they need novelty, they're active, and it's

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Speaker 3: not possible to actually do it all. If you have

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Speaker 3: to be productive and you've got toddlers, you're not going

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Speaker 3: to be able to. But hopefully these ideas have been helpful,

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Speaker 3: whether it's interacting and involving them, whether it's changing their

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Speaker 3: toys around, whether it's getting them to do stuff in

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Speaker 3: your presence or playing with things that they don't normally

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Speaker 3: get to play with while you're working, or even relying

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Speaker 3: on the.

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Speaker 2: Tree creating obstacles in the laundry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sounds great. Hey, We hope that these have been

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Speaker 3: some useful ideas for you to get through lockdown. If

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Speaker 3: you're in the Greatest Sydney area or in Victoria or

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Speaker 3: anywhere else where lockdowns are affecting you. Up in Cans,

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Speaker 3: for example, we love doing this podcast for you, and

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Speaker 3: we are so grateful that you listen. The Happy Family's

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Speaker 3: podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media, and

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Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd like more

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Speaker 3: and fol about making your family happier, because a happy

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Speaker 3: family doesn't just happen, check out our Happy Families memberships.

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Speaker 3: A small monthly fee gives you access to so many

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Speaker 3: resources to build a flourishing family. For all the details,

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Speaker 3: visit happy families dot com.

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Speaker 1: Do a