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Speaker 1: Now onto a real different topic. We know that the

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Speaker 1: former British government expert who identified several possible disposal sites

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Speaker 1: for the body of Peter Falconio says he believes further

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Speaker 1: searchers have a reasonably high chance of locating the murdered

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Speaker 1: backpacker's body. Doctor Mark Harrison was the UK's National Police

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Speaker 1: Search Advisor in the early two thousands and he is

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Speaker 1: considered a world leading consultant in nobody homicide cases. Now

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Speaker 1: he spoke to journalist and friend of the show a

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Speaker 1: voice you will remember, Award winning journalist with the Guardian newspaper,

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Speaker 1: former head of News at the NT News and former

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Speaker 1: regular panelist on the Week That was Ben Smee. Good morning,

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Speaker 1: Ben Katie.

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Speaker 2: How are you might have had to have listened for

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Speaker 2: a long time to remember the voice.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Ben, We've got a lot of very long term

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Speaker 1: listeners to this show, so I reckon there'll be a

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Speaker 1: few that remember.

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Speaker 2: Very good, very good.

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Speaker 1: Hey, good to have you on the show. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what, this is a really interesting story you did. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: interview doctor Mark Harrison tell us a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about his background and what he has said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I mean this is something that

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Speaker 2: sort of came about from my time in the territory.

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Speaker 2: About twenty fifteen. I remember having a chat to a

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Speaker 2: police officer about you'll recall the remember the Carli Sinclear case,

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Speaker 2: where Carli had been murdered by her partner and that

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Speaker 2: they'd found her body on a bush blockout in Berry Springs.

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Speaker 2: I remember having a chat toil police officer about that,

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Speaker 2: and they talked about an expert who they'd brought up

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Speaker 2: to the territory to help to locate Carli, and that

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Speaker 2: that expert had done some work on the Peter Falconi

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Speaker 2: O case. Sort of this week, obviously, we've had Bradley

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Speaker 2: Murdoch die and in some people's views, sort of the

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Speaker 2: best chance of finding Peter Falconier's body kind of dying

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Speaker 2: with him. And so I'd sort of thought, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: let's try and track down that expert who'd done this

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Speaker 2: work in the territory so many years ago. And I

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Speaker 2: managed to work out who he was and spoke to

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Speaker 2: him and really found that that he'd done these reports.

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Speaker 2: He'd been commissioned by the British government and the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory Police, paid by the British government. To do these

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Speaker 2: reports that identified ultimately five possible locations for Peter Falconio's body.

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Speaker 2: You know this guy is you know the guy right,

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Speaker 2: He's the person you would go to for a nobody

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Speaker 2: homicide search. He was involved in the search for Madeline McCann.

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Speaker 2: He's been involved in cases that listeners would know, like

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Speaker 2: like the Daniel Morecambe case, like the William Tyrell search.

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Speaker 2: This is someone who really has is the pre eminent

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Speaker 2: kind of search expert when it comes to nobody homicide.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, he says that there's still things that can

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Speaker 2: be done in terms of searching the areas that he

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Speaker 2: identified in his reports.

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Speaker 1: So Ben, in terms of the locations which he identified,

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Speaker 1: were they ever searched?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I don't know. I think he's the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we tried to ask the Nordon Territory Police

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Speaker 2: what they had done in relation to that report, and

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Speaker 2: I think, look, it's important to note that he wasn't

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Speaker 2: directly critical of the Northern Territory Police in terms of

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Speaker 2: what he'd said, because obviously search is a very very

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Speaker 2: difficult thing, but that ultimately, you know, I think the

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Speaker 2: reality is we should be questioning whether or not the

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Speaker 2: searches had happened as he envisaged. Now, this is a

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Speaker 2: guy who sort of his expertise is in forensics, but

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Speaker 2: also the search methods that he talks about use a

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Speaker 2: lot of geological techniques. He says that a lot of

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Speaker 2: those techniques are just simply things that require expertise that

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Speaker 2: you just simply don't exist within police forces because they're very,

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Speaker 2: very highly specialized. And it seems as though this report

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Speaker 2: could very much be the basis of a of potentially

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Speaker 2: a new search and potentially sort of search efforts that

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Speaker 2: might not have happened to date. Right, Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I think I

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Speaker 2: found fascinating speaking to him about was that the idea

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Speaker 2: that it seems like we've all had, and that was

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Speaker 2: the idea that was in my mind too before speaking

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Speaker 2: to him, was that Bradley Murdoch was the person who

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Speaker 2: held the key in terms of discovering Peter Falconio's body.

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Speaker 2: But that the reality when you think about it, is

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Speaker 2: that this is something that would have occurred more than

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago. It occurred in the dark, it occurred

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Speaker 2: in a very very remote spot, and it occurred in

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Speaker 2: circumstances where we don't even know whether Bradley Murdoch was

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Speaker 2: particularly lucid at the time that it happened. So when

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Speaker 2: you factor all of that in, the reality is is

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Speaker 2: that even and you know, despite the fact that we

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Speaker 2: knew it was unlikely, even if Bradley Murdoch confessed, the

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Speaker 2: reality is that locating a disposal site is probably better

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Speaker 2: done via science, by a forensic science than it is

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Speaker 2: done via getting Bradley Murdock to confess. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we have a five hundred thousand dollars reward for information.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think we should possibly be querying whether

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Speaker 2: or not the idea that a reward for information is

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Speaker 2: a better use when we have a scientific forensic report

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Speaker 2: sitting there that could very well be used to mount

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Speaker 2: maybe another search, as this expert says, further searching has

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Speaker 2: a reasonably high chance of locating Peter Falconio's body.

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Speaker 1: So, Ben, is it clear if the you know, if

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Speaker 1: the report that he you know that we're speaking about,

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Speaker 1: whether you know any of that has been followed at

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Speaker 1: this point in time. I mean, is he critical of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police or is he more just sort

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Speaker 1: of saying hey let's give this a go.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think he's certainly saying, hey, give this a go,

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Speaker 2: Like he was very clear, you know that he thought

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Speaker 2: that the Northern Territory Police had you know, certainly been

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Speaker 2: tireless in their efforts in terms of attempting to locate

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Speaker 2: Peter Falconio. So there's certainly no kind of direct criticism

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Speaker 2: there from him with regard to that. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I think my interpretation of all of that information is

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Speaker 2: that fundamentally it does seem like there is more that

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Speaker 2: can be done here and for the sake of you know,

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Speaker 2: the Falconio family in particular, who must you know, so

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Speaker 2: many years down the track still be wondering and sort

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Speaker 2: of aching because they've had a loved one who's gone missing.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, the jurisdictions oh it to families

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Speaker 2: to do everything they can to attempt to give them

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Speaker 2: some sort of closure here.

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Speaker 1: Well, Ben, it is certainly a really interesting discussion and

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Speaker 1: adds a whole other element to things, and it is

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Speaker 1: indeed a situation over the years that has it has

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Speaker 1: captivated the world. There's no other way to put it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I remember you and I were sitting on

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Speaker 1: a panel for the week that was discussing you know,

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Speaker 1: the nobody no Parole legislation. It's you know, it is

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Speaker 1: it's something that's really sort of you know, shape people's

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Speaker 1: views of the Northern Territory in different ways as well.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, and you know, I think I think it's

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Speaker 2: certainly no secret that at the time there was some

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Speaker 2: you know, some some British media organizations and and sort

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Speaker 2: of hand up that I currently worked for one of

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Speaker 2: those British media organizations who who may have you know,

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Speaker 2: at the time been you know, critical or there'd be

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Speaker 2: some implied criticism about the efforts that were happening within

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory to locate Peter Falconio. Certainly not suggesting

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Speaker 2: that those efforts, you know, that they were fair portrayals

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Speaker 2: or that or that we haven't done everything that we

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Speaker 2: thought we could or that we thought we needed to

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Speaker 2: up to this point. But I think what we have

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Speaker 2: here is an expert report, who's someone who's used you know,

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Speaker 2: really kind of well researched, grounded, expert scientific method to say,

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Speaker 2: here are five sight that we might be able to

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Speaker 2: locate this body. You know, I certainly think that for

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Speaker 2: the sake of that family. The Northern Territory should be

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Speaker 2: doing everything that it can to make sure that proper

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Speaker 2: searches of those those have places have taken place, and

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Speaker 2: that we have really done everything that we could have.

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Speaker 2: That's not to say that we will find Peter Falconio

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Speaker 2: out in the desert, but that there are it does

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Speaker 2: appear that there are stones that are as yet you

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Speaker 2: know we haven't turned over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Ben's maithe. It is good to speak to

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Speaker 1: you this morning. It's like a blast from the plast made.

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Speaker 1: Hearing your voice back through my head.

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Speaker 2: Signs absolutely absolutely and it's yeah really lovely to speak

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Speaker 2: to your listeners again, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Good on you Ben. Lovely to talk to you. We'll

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Speaker 1: catch up again soon.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much, you too,