1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: How do you break stalemate with your business partner or 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: a teammate. If you work alone, everything's up to you, 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: And if you've got three people on the team, there's 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: always a decisive vote. But if it's just you and 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: one other person, how do you deal with a split decision. 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: Comedy duo Rich Higgins and Matt Kelly, better known as 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: The List Is, have realized the only reliable solution to 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: this problem is to introduce a third voice in some form. 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: So what is a third voice and how can you 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: use it to help you make better decisions? My name 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, And this is how 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: I work a show about how to help you do 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: your best work. On today's my Favorite Tip episode, will 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: you go back to an interview from the past and 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. In 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: today's show, I speak with Rich and Matt from The 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: List is about what happens when they disagree on something 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: and how they go about finding a resolution. 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: We have been working a lot with Shona Erskine, who 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: is like she works with like performers but also athletes, 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. I saw her speak at an 23 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: artist's wellbeing thing in Perth a long time ago, and 24 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: I was like, I really want to work with you. 25 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: And so we've had a bunch of sessions with her 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: about really talking about, like, you know, how to make 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: decisions as two people, because three people can make a 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: decision much easier than two, because two people we can 29 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: just get to loger. 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: One can be outvoted. 31 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, when you're fifty to fifty, how can you 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: do that? 33 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 3: And we have over the last couple of years started 34 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: to introduce that third voice in as well, in order 35 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 3: to be able to like what shown has kind of 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 3: given us is a language in order to be able 37 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: to kind of talk about talk about conflict, why we 38 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: went into that conflict space, what the conflict was actually about, 39 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: and then some methods to sort of shortcut those stages 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 3: of conflict to go like we can just jump over 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: that hurdle and get straight into what we're actually talking about, 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 3: which is, you know, Richard wants to write a new 43 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 3: bit and I want to bend or break an old bit, 44 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: and like just little conflicts like. 45 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: That languages from her about that what creativity is often 46 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: what's the third one. There's three, isn't. 47 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 3: It, yeah, bending, breaking or blending. 48 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's that's the only three. There's only three 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: ways to have an idea, which is to blend, to 50 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: break an existing one, or bend, break, blend, blend, yeah, 51 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 2: which is really so we we have a lot of 52 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: We've also realized that we're very visual in the way 53 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: that we have ideas. So often when we think we're disagreeing, 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: we're agreeing, but we're expressing ourselves. 55 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: From other sides. 56 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: So we use a lot of visual aids. It sounds weird, 57 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 2: but it actually works so well. And it's the one 58 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: thing that was really bad during COVID is when you've 59 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: got two people and a sheet of paper in front 60 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: of you and a pen just and you just sort 61 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: of like draw an ideogram of like or what a 62 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: picture of like whatever you're where you're at. It can often, really, 63 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: it can often really it just helps so much because 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: then you're not talking. I'm not trying to create an 65 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: idea in Matt, and he's not trying to create an 66 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: idea in me. We have a third thing. We've created 67 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 2: that third thing. I think that's really good. 68 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 3: And you know, picture paints a thousand words, it's very 69 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: easy to understand something. 70 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: We have a lot of different modes though. Matt is 71 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: very dyslexic and very visual, and I'm really into words. 72 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: I like to read and write, and I really like 73 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: the script. Matt doesn't really care about script so much. 74 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 3: So, yeah, and we roum from just kind of having 75 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: those different modes. We've also learned that and you can 76 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: tell we are talk over the top of each other 77 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: a lot. And so what we've learned from Shiner as well, 78 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: I think is really which is a really important thing, 79 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: is that it's just a really simple trick, which is, 80 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 3: if somebody's talking and they're talking out their idea, you 81 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 3: just write on a piece of paper your idea and 82 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 3: don't let them have their time, and then you can 83 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 3: look at that thing on the piece of paper at 84 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: the end of this discussion and if it's still worth 85 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: bringing up, then it goes Then it goes in in 86 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: for discussion, but not letting the other person finish their idea, 87 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: because even if you can see that that it's maybe 88 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: not appropriate for this thing that we're doing, it is 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 3: still an idea that somebody is giving birth to, and 90 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: to shut it off that especially as creative humans, you 91 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: have quite an emotional reaction to that, and we do. 92 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: And we found that the more we kind of cut 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 3: each other off in that process, the more that kind 94 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: of bucket of frustration sort of builds up. So, yeah, 95 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 3: that's something that we try and keep open when we're working. 96 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: But the most important thing I've ever learned about collaboration 97 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: is that you don't have to agree on everything. You 98 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: only have to agree on enough. 99 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 3: That's it, and not everything is not. Every idea that 100 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: you have is for that collaboration as well, which is 101 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: another thing that we learned from shown. She's like, there's, 102 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: you know, a ven diagram of things that you're both 103 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: interested in and being very The list is is where 104 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 3: they cross over. Yeah, and the clearer you are on 105 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: those things, the faster the creative project moves forward. 106 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this extract of my chat with Rich 107 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: and Matt from the List Is, you might want to 108 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: go back and listen to the full episode and you 109 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: can find a link to that in the show notes. 110 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 111 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: that you work. I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 112 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 113 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: three to interesting research findings. You can sign up for 115 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: that at Howiwork dot Co. That's how I Work dot Co. 116 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing part of your day with me 117 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for 118 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: more tips on how to work better, connect with me 119 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just 120 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on 121 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the 122 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able 123 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land and I 124 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elders, past, present and emerging. 125 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by inventing with production support 126 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios. And thank you to Martin Nimba 127 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 1: who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better 128 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise.