WEBVTT - THE ONE TRICK THAT SAVED I'M A CELEBRITY AUSTRALIA 🎬 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.640 Welcome back to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.160 and on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.680 with the biggest players in television today. On the podcast, 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.120 I have the well respected and highly regarded television executive 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.840 Ben Ulm, who is the head of Factual and Reality 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.279 at ITV Studios. There's not many people who have worked 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.160 in the Australian TV industry who have never been out 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.800 of work. He has gone from strength to strength and 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.240 worked with some of the greats on programs that you've 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.800 been watching for as long as I can remember. He 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.000 grew up with journal's parents who commented on television and 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.680 from there his passion and knowledge of the box is 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.159 exponentially profound. Ben not only has a cool name, but 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.440 he has an eye for content and an understanding of 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.640 storytelling that has industry leaders partnering with him and his ideas. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.960 So what makes today's guest tick Well, We're about to 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.240 find out with some exclusive content on how these shows 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:53.040 get made. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.360 I am part of the executive team at ITV Studios. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:57.360 I'm a celebrity. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:02.680 Get in my corner that is reality and factual and 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.280 his farmer is one step closer to finding his wife. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.680 When there's an authentic moment that you capture on camera 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.679 that's really satisfying. Chase. Try to help out networks with 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:15.000 their challenges and problems. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.759 The living room has all the teas you need. 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.119 TV is not a mirror to ourselves, but it's relatable 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.720 to everyone. So Ben, how are you relatively well? I 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.679 think we've all had an extraordinary year, and I think 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.959 we've all had that period of reflection during lockdown about 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.280 what's happening to the world, what's happening to our business, 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.679 what happened, what's happening to me? And we've come through 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.920 it relatively okay in terms of an industry with many 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.560 challenges with everything we do now. But I'm healthy, I 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.119 have a job, and I still love telling stories. So 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.560 that's a good starting point for twenty twenty one. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.800 You know, your role at ITV Studios is the head 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.360 of reality and factual What does that mean to the 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.320 average Joe? Like you know, if someone pulls your side 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.560 at the pub and says, oh God, what's that? What 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.520 do you do? How do you explain it? 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.880 The short form of it is, I am part of 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.600 the executive team at I TV Studios, where our mission 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.960 is to run the series that we have on air 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.200 at the moment, and so my corner of that is 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.120 reality and factual, So that's documentaries, that's programs like I'm 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.959 a Celebrity, Get Me out of Here? And we also 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.560 developed some original content. But we also ITV is a 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.280 company that has four thousand titles in its catalogs, so 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.160 there are programs of all genres around the world that 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.760 we benefit from having that IP and so we have 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.880 a very collaborative development process where we all pitch in 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.720 what's the euphanism. We try to help out networks with 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.160 their challenges and problems. Help me help you by buying 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:47.080 one of my todes. So I think if you're going 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.760 to drill down on my specific corner, which is as 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.440 silly as I'm a Celebrity in matters Hell and as 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.120 serious as Who Gets to Stay in Australia, which is 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.520 a documentary series, per I. 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.440 Just love the fact that it's just so many categories, 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.680 which it must mean that you never get bored because 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:08.040 you've worked in news, documentary, reality, entertainment, comedy, lifestyle. I 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.000 hope I'm not forgetting any of those. But you know, personally, 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.840 to you, what's your favorite is there something that you go, Oh, 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.360 that's the piece of the dessert that I enjoy the most. 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.320 So in terms of what I get a kick out of, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.240 I get a kick out of having a cast that's 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.600 working as well as on the celebrity works and the 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.320 things that I've seen on paper and we see sort 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.440 of you know, we pitched a challenge in a boardroom, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.160 seeing that actually work and seeing the ratings from that. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:33.720 But I also get a kick out of a well 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.680 executed story and from a documentary, you know. And documentary 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.280 is the art of capturing a moment. As for the 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:46.080 confected world, where particularly with some reality shows, they're more 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.520 or less scripted and they're more or less more dramality 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.640 than genuine moments. For a lot of reasons. It's delivering 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.360 on the fairy tale that is with in Australia in 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.760 the world. Once when there's an authentic moment that you 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.560 capture on camera while you're filling a documentary with a 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.920 various small budget, low key crew, that's really satisfying as 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.200 well and everything in between. We had to dabble with 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.040 a scripted comedy earlier in my tenure here about five 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.640 six years ago. I love that, you know, the great 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.480 thing about access is that they do what they're told. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.000 In reality and documentary, you're capturing what happens rather than 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.480 prescribing its. It really just depends, you know. And this 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.039 coming Sunday will be the live finale of I'm a 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.839 Celebrity Getting out of Here, having pre recorded the series 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.720 civilized Action beckons for our magnificent seven Julia. 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.920 Indeed, my darling indeed, and the next time we'll see 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:36.760 them will be on our grand finale stage. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:37.680 And we've got the band back together again. We go 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.080 Pitle all aback in studio directing it. We're all there, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.680 and that live energy, that electricity and danger of a 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.760 live broadcast, there's nothing like it. So I think, in 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.320 terms of all the genres that I've been involved with, 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.040 there's not a person that I haven't said in passing 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.960 that everyone should do on a celebrity, even once in 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.920 their life, because it ticks all those boxes. If you're 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.520 a storyteller's story, if you're a joke tellers jokes, if 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.279 you want the big scale set pieces with very limited 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.080 scope for failure that the four hundred and fifty crew 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.919 you have that, do you want real moments between people 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.479 you get that as well. So that program, I mean, 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.800 I've done it seven times now, It's the one program 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:19.599 I'll always go back to. 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.520 I offer this has been one of the greatest experiences 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.360 of my life. I came in here afraid I'm not 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.320 happy with who I was. I needed a change, and 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:29.920 I feel I've achieved that. 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:32.520 The thing I love when you talk to different people 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.960 that have worked with you, they talk about your mantras. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.720 You know, you often say is it compelling? Does it 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.479 pay off in the end? Is it a well told story? 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.760 Is there a hook that universally works? You know, I 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.400 guess that's the question. Is there a hook that universally 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.800 works for audiences that you live by, that exists within 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:50.240 all of that? 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.400 If you capture a moment, like a real moment, it's 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:57.440 hard to be. You can create an environment where people 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.320 will interact, and you can create a rule set where people, 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.039 you know, you can try to engineer what they do, 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.880 and this is across most genres. But there's just that 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.599 simple moment between people and that it doesn't have to 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.880 be a profound personal moment, could just be funny. I 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.440 think TV is not a mirror to ourselves, but it's 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:20.080 relatable to everyone because we understand those jeopardies. I mean, 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:23.680 we provide sort of the extraordinary environment that encapsulates it, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.760 you know. I think story is story, you know, and 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.240 I think if it's clear, if there's an objective there, 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.640 if there's a purpose, I think it's another phrase I 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.760 use quite a lot of what's the purpose of this 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.760 scene or this moment, How does this contribute to the 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:39.800 to the overall story. Sometimes you don't know in the time, 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.839 you know. Sometimes I mean on twenty four hour Turnaround program, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:44.880 you've got to we all call it as we see 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.880 it because that character. ARC love to say that we 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.760 design that, but of course I think it just happens accidentally. 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.040 And if we've been able to capture those key moments 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.240 that contribute to that, that's probably the best representation of 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.479 that type of program we can have. It just depends 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.800 on the program, Benjamin, matter of whether it's a program 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.039 where access so that they don't know the cameras are there, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.280 but they're comfortable enough to share their fears and the 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.040 things that they're basing. That's important to do that in 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.280 that passion with a big program under a huge pressure 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.960 kind of celebrity and some of the other programs. You're 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.680 creating an environment where they can they can roam freely, 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.440 but you also need them to be motivated to share 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.360 of themselves and scenarios. In the middle of the season four, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.360 when it was a long season, it was hot, we 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.000 were very strict about diet and we just broke them. 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:39.600 So that's interesting. They're disinterested, depressed celebrities, state of talk, 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.480 but waiting for their next meal break. So you know, 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:43.640 we learn as we go. 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.920 I think it's you know, don't kill the celebrities. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.640 Celebrities, and I think, you know, we're there to entertain. Yes, 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.120 it's a social experiment, and yes they're in an environment 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.240 that never been before and with people that wouldn't usually 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.360 hang out with, and interesting things happen in that. But 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.560 you know, we have entertaining. It's going to be interesting somehow. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.760 Yeah, which I think is really important. You know, I 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.600 always think with television it needs to be relatable and aspirational. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.520 I think that they're the two key things for me 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.560 that I think is when TV seems to work. You know, 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.560 when you bought I'm a Celebrity over from the UK, 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.320 it had obviously been quite successful over there for quite 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.880 some time. What was it that you did to the 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.960 format to make it seem you know, ready for Australian audiences, Like, 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.520 what are those noticeable differences between those two franchises. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:34.679 Well, quite bluntly, it was the it's an expensive proposition 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.000 for a short run intensive program. You know, the UK 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:44.520 show run for thirteen fourteen years as a Christmas three 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.920 week delight, you know, three weeks in and out, and 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.440 they have much better budgetsto in Australia because their population 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.559 is much greater. So many people before I came to 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.000 IDEAVI had pitched the program, but it was just whether 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:59.800 it be for seven, nine or ten, it's just too 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.720 enser it because the premise had to stack up. You know, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.280 we had to do it in another country. It had 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.120 and you know we couldn't just do it in our 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.959 own backyard as a starting point, because you genuinely needed 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.679 to go on that adventure and be that fish out 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:18.240 of water. The UK culturally, they're happy to embrace something 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:20.800 which is a tenuous jungle, you know, because it's all 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.000 about the humor, and they are fish out of water 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.400 in that. You know, they don't see snakes as commonly 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.439 as we do. Its biders, so it works, So it 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.840 was a matter of getting value for the broadcaster. Choose 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:34.480 my phrase, put it up on the hoist, you know, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.040 let's look at the program and what we can do 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.000 to make it work for broadcaster here now, the strongest 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.360 interest we had was in twenty fourteen, my first year 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.720 here from Channel ten. Stephen Tate and Beverly McGarvey showed 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.520 it renewed interest and so we scattered at Jungle in 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:54.960 South Africa and he was over there for The Bachelor, 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.440 so we linked up with him and to escaped there 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.679 from ten. But we needed to make it work as 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.080 a sick week or seven week or eight week strip. 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.679 She had never been done anywhere, and so I came 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.040 up with a creative with the team that ten commissioned, 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.560 and without getting into the detail of it here, it 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.400 was very different to what you see now because everyone 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.880 told me that the three weeks of the UK show 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.320 it nearly kills the crew and it nearly kills celebrities. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.040 It was so intensive. Even with a massive crew of 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:28.960 five hundred, it's full on. So we couldn't simply just go, okay, right, 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.320 we'll just double what they do. But afterwards commissioned and 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.440 we had our first production meetings. First create a meeting 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.880 with Beverly, she formed the view that my creative or 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.600 our creative at the time, was just too complicated for 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.160 a season one and it would baffle rather than educate 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.000 the audience. She was right, she was right, keep it simple, stupid. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.800 So we roll the dice. We extended the program to 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.800 a six week run. We were warned that it's going 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.600 to affect the caliber of people you could get. We 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.560 don't know whether what happens after that three week mark. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.720 After that three remark in the UK, they are deplete, 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.560 they've done, they've run their course, and that's when they 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.200 come out. And we figured it out. We figured, you know, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.120 we had very strong support from ten Stephen Tate here, 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.640 you know, and I was part of our development with 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.640 the whole team, working Hillary Innis and Lara Hopkins. We 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.400 had the great Peter Abbott on board as our guide 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.520 as well. But the thing is it was uncharted territory 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.960 and so we cast it. We honored the format, we 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.480 honored the diet that they would prescribed. We launched well, 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.520 and celebrities struggled, And I think about the closing up 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.080 to the two week mark, we had Laura Dundervitch ready 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.200 to walk, so to the point where she was packing 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.840 her things inside. Our production people were getting ready with 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.800 a suitcase detector to our hotel. But then this self 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.640 chain of events suddenly Chrissy Swan and Joe Creesy they 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.200 were done. They were going, well, I'm not saying if 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.720 you don't stay here, So then we had three potentially walking. 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.920 I'm not myself. I just don't feel funny and I'm tired. 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.920 I'm a tough cookie and this never happens to me, 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.600 so it's really it's really quite shocking. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.440 Are you guys really tired today? 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.880 Yeah, and so depressed. 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.160 Oh, we've had enough. 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.040 And Stephen Tate turned to me. So Stephen Tate at 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.240 the network executive said, what's our TV studio is going 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:25.920 to do if they all walk at the end of 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.160 week two and we have four and a half more 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.560 weeks of program to broadcast and plenty for our turnaround 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:39.040 program like We're Live. And I've said, I'll take your 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.720 point at it on advisement because I didn't know, you know, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.400 So anyway, we had a lot of discussions about how 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.400 can we keep them in, you know, do we feed 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:49.079 them some more, do we give them a break. We 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:50.920 pull them out and give them break, bring them back 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.000 in again. And we had this wonderful intel from the UK. 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.079 We had the wonderful Oli Nash, who's like Yoda, who's 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.800 done all the UK series. And what we did was 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.240 the Oli Nash called the UK, came back to us 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.160 and said, I want to try something. And at the 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.520 end of that second week, when everyone was at a lowe, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.040 they bumped in a little Twitter game who was this 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.360 set about. It's a simple game where you read out 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.400 what was said about people and you have to guess 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.120 who it was tweeted about. And it was like watering 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.400 a plant because suddenly, for the first time, all of 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.760 those beautiful people in that original cast, who had no 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.480 idea whether they were being watched, whether the series was tanking, 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.280 whether they were being humiliated, they had no idea. Suddenly 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.800 they had this tiny little output from the outside world. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.839 They're talking about us, they love us, and it turned 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.760 things around. It just got them through that hump. It's 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.600 not just that, but they kind of hung in there, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.960 you know. And then this weird thing that happens every year, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.520 this kinship happened. We had marsh Brady and Laura Dundovich 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.840 and Christy Swan, all these people that didn't know each 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.360 other and they connected, you know, and the premise of 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.880 the show, which is you do silly challenges to win 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.440 food for your camp mates, which I wasn't sure it 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.760 would stack up for Australian celebrities. I wasn't sure they'd 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.360 just go fuck that, but they did. They worked for 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.520 each other. We got over that hump, and we got 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:22.800 over that three week camp and that four week camp, 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.080 that five week camp, and that six week camp. We 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.200 had a fantastic finale. And here we are getting towards 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:30.480 the end of season seven. 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.880 From that very first season, do you have something to 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.280 say to all those celebrities who were the guinea pigs? 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.880 Regardless of what Alex Beberdyke says, I go to the 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.440 church of season one because it was such a brave 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:46.440 thing to do, to just hand over their lives to 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.880 us people they're barely met, because you know, we've all 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.080 the reassurances of executive producers to say you're fine, you're fine, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.560 you'll be fine, And they didn't know how they would 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.680 be perceived, whether there would be whether this would be 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.400 career killers, and they were so brave, and we were 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.000 so strict with them that they will always be my 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.760 favorites in that regard, all of them. Barry Hall, Joel, 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.240 you know, it was just a beautiful thing. Freddie Flint 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.680 tof season two on with with Alex. I have to 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.520 give him due difference as well, because he's the best 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.600 executive producer for reality TV that I've ever met, and 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.320 he's grown the format and he's been a stut and 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:27.680 his forecasts have all worked. And so seasons two, three 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:30.640 to seven, eight, nine, and hopefully ten is the Alex Show. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.600 But that original cast, and it took a few years. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.880 You know. I think it took Shane Warne's kids to 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:38.280 talk him into doing it, and he didn't need to 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.760 do it, but he did it for his kids. And 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.880 the material benefits that have come from the series for 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.480 all manner of celebrities, I've been really happy with. We've 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.880 had our first celebrity baby, Lauren Brandt, and Barry Hall 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.960 had people's career has been revived in radio. Barry Hall 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.160 was doing a toilet paper ad within four weeks of 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.280 coming out, So I think people now recognize that there 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.240 are material benefits for it, and I think we've been 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.560 good at retaining the core authenticity of it. Peter Abbott 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.920 said back in the day, he said said there's about 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.160 Big Brother as well, it's an unproduced show. Now that 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.640 seems odd to say it's an unproduced show because there 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.320 are a minion producers on the show, but he's right. 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.000 You create the bubble, you create the environment, whether it 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.800 be a Big Brother or I'm a celebrity, and then 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.800 you guys figure it out when you're in there, and 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.440 it's what you make of it. And you know, when 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.560 you're talking about production and why haven't they got your 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.880 meds there on time? Or why is it so hot? 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.000 Or why is my bed? So what are the producers 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.680 doing that? You know, we can't use that, that's not 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.960 part of But when you talk to each other, you know, 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.960 positively or negatively, that's really interesting content. And it's set 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.479 at the start of our conversation. You know, the conversations 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.320 I'm proudest of when you see people from the opposite 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.880 world sitting down having debates and discussions around things that 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.320 politicians can't resolve, and they don't resolve them. They give 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.400 each other a perspective and they acknowledge each other's point 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.480 of view and kids there. You know, kids don't watch 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.199 Q and A, they watch this. It really makes me 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.639 proud when I see those things, and when you do 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.679 see those things. Nothing to do with me. It's got 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:15.560 nothing to do with Alex, It's got nothing to do 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.119 with the four hundred crew. It's two people who've been 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.840 placed into an environment where they can have that conversation. 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:23.439 Did anyone ever come out in any of the teams? 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:24.159 Now? 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:29.200 I never suspected anyone or whatever, but now no one 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.760 from NFL has yet. Surely someone's come out. 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.680 Well in all of AFL. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.520 I played football for eighten years and I'm sure there 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.760 were some gay, homosexual people playing, but no one really 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.679 came out in our time saying, oh you know this 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:44.560 is who I am. 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.320 It's those really good human moments. What would you say 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.640 makes a good executive producer? I mean, you touched upon 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.119 Alex doing a great job, and you know, across so 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.919 many shows that you have worked across, what do you 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.640 think ultimately makes a good executive producer. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.000 There's a lot of community cass as you'd imagine in 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.399 a project with Sony moving pieces, and if you have 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.040 an executive producer on a small documentary where there's any 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:12.040 two other people. It's a different role to managing with 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:17.439 production a four hundred and thirty plus crew, and you 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.960 need good people working in your departments because you cannot micromanage. 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.720 It's not about having lots of lots of meetings, having 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:31.040 very clear direction, being able to be a good traffic 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.719 crop yes no, yes, no. To invest in the people 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.320 that are doing the things that you want. You know, 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:38.879 I mean Alex would be the first to say, is 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.320 his head of trials, his head of art. All those 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.360 people are creative geniuses in their own right, and they're 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.760 in an environment where they can shine. You know, they 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.240 know that they can make decisions and they can creatively 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.720 push the boat at a little bit knowing that you 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.360 know he has their back. But then you know there's 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.600 the network relations being able to sort of communicate, you know, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.280 knowing when to escalate, when you know when to share, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.159 when to overshare, undershare, so that the network is involved 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.840 and isn't surprised by things happen. You know, Alex is 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.480 celebrated for being the guy that is outrageous and controversial, 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.120 but he'll also defend someone if he thinks that there's 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.440 a celebrity there who's going to be stitched up by 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.040 a conversation or if there's an undefended accusation by one 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.720 celebrity to another celebrity, and there's a real decency with that, 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:28.879 and it's it is very easy to get caught up 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.800 into the excitement of the controversy or or the conversation is. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.040 But he'll be the one that will defend that celebrity 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.919 to the hilt when there's none of us will ever 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.119 get to wear but controversies that happen behind the scenes 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.399 where you think, okay, you know, how are going to 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.639 deal with this content? And you know, if you're in 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.159 the bubble, you can't defend yourself, if the press is 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.879 teeing off on what you've done in the in camp, 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.480 you can't defend yourself. Abb you can defend usself because 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.000 or ash because you know they're out. You know it's 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.040 a pre recorded programs, so they can do that. But 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.959 Alex is a defender of the cast member who is 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.520 just being themselves in that environment. He stands by the 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.560 show when they come out and so you know, I 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.639 don't think he's got he's had too many white feathers 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.639 in the mail from celebrities since he came out. I mean, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.560 Petty Fluer wasn't happy for about twenty four hours, but 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.520 that was more about her competitive spirit. And then twenty 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.359