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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson.

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Speaker 2: So delighted to have a special guest with me on

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Speaker 2: the Happy Families Podcast today, doctor Katrina Lyons. Katrina is

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Speaker 2: the CEO of Act for Kids, a charity that helps

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Speaker 2: keep kids safe, heal from trauma, and lead happy lives.

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Speaker 2: Katrina is also a registered psychologist. And the rest I'm

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Speaker 2: talking with Katrina today is a recent survey that was

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Speaker 2: conducted by Acts for Kids caught my attention. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was absolutely fascinating and it's something that every single parent.

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Speaker 1: Needs to hear.

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Speaker 2: The report or the campaign is called get Comfy Switching

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Speaker 2: on by switching off. Doctor Lynes, It's so good to

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Speaker 2: have you on the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 2: What was the number one eye opening finding from this

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Speaker 2: research that you did with Australian families Australian.

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Speaker 3: Children, Hi, Justin, were the most worrying finding? Was it?

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Speaker 3: Forty percent of kids age fourteen to eighteen don't actually

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Speaker 3: speak to anyone if they're worried, So they don't talk

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Speaker 3: to anyone, which is really concerning.

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Speaker 2: So when I hear you say that nearly half of

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Speaker 2: kids who are in their mid to eighteens, they're just

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Speaker 2: shutting the world out. I think of the sullen, cranky, withdrawn, terrified,

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Speaker 2: worried teen who just goes into their room and stairs

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Speaker 2: to screen, rather than engaging with life, engaging with parents,

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Speaker 2: engaging with a school counsel or a teacher or somebody

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Speaker 2: that they can lean on. Am I getting that right?

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Speaker 2: What are they doing if they're experiencing challenges in their

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Speaker 2: life and they're not talking to somebody.

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Speaker 3: Well, that they don't talk to anybody, and that that's

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Speaker 3: actually really scary, as you say, because they're bottling up

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Speaker 3: all of those emotions, all their worries, and they're making

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Speaker 3: everything bigger in their head. As you know, if you

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Speaker 3: don't talk to somebody and you know, try and get

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Speaker 3: out those worries and it all amplifiers in your head.

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Speaker 3: And so our concern is that they're you know, they're

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Speaker 3: brewing mental health problems down the track. That's really what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So you've worked as a rich psyche for plenty of years,

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Speaker 2: how often would you see this in a clinical setting?

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Speaker 2: So someone comes in, they're really struggling and you just

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Speaker 2: find out that they've got no one to talk to,

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Speaker 2: or rather maybe it's that they've chosen not to talk

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Speaker 2: to anyone.

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Speaker 3: It's actually really common in the clinical setting if somebody

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Speaker 3: ends up coming through the door, it's usually precipitated by

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Speaker 3: you know, a crisis or someone said to them, you

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Speaker 3: need to go and talk to somebody, or something's happened,

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Speaker 3: because they'll have you spent a long time sitting ruminating

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Speaker 3: on something. So it is quite common.

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Speaker 2: And this is that thing where they're ruminating and it

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Speaker 2: kind of turns into a catastrophe, doesn't it. There's there's

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Speaker 2: so much build up, so much, so much angst, so much.

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Speaker 1: Unknown going on.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's has for young people as well. They've

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Speaker 3: got all these pressures of you know, school and friends

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Speaker 3: and social media and a whole host of things happening.

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Speaker 3: And so there may be something small and solvable or

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Speaker 3: some emotions that they're feeling that if they talk to

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Speaker 3: somebody and their emotions are acknowledged, then the feelings go away.

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Speaker 3: They can help, you know, an adult can help them

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Speaker 3: manage it. But they're bottling all that up. Then it does,

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Speaker 3: it becomes big in their head.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So here's a really tough question.

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Speaker 2: The forty percent of kids who are talking to no one,

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Speaker 2: no one at all. How many of them have somebody

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Speaker 2: to talk to but they're choosing not to talk to them.

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Speaker 2: And how many of them just don't have someone they

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Speaker 2: feel that they can talk to. They feel like their

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Speaker 2: parents will shrug their shoulders and say, I'll get over it.

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Speaker 1: Stop being silly, You'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: This is all in your head, so they're concerned about

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Speaker 2: criticism from their parents. How many of them are in

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Speaker 2: those two different situations, So.

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Speaker 3: There's nearly ten percent of them who say they have

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Speaker 3: no close adult to talk to at all. Well of

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Speaker 3: the whole sample. And the problem and where we came

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Speaker 3: up with the campaign switching off to switch on for

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Speaker 3: kids is because most kids say they don't listen. They're

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Speaker 3: close adult doesn't listen. So sixty percent of them say

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Speaker 3: that they sometimes or maybe listen. Only thirty percent of

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Speaker 3: kids say they're at their close adult always listens to them.

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Speaker 3: So that's the trick. They probably have a close adult.

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Speaker 3: And the kids who do talk to someone, the first

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Speaker 3: person they talk to, sixty five percent of them say

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Speaker 3: their friends. Then sixty four percent of them say their

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Speaker 3: parents or their careers, and then thirty three percent say

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Speaker 3: their sibling. So they do talk to their parents like

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Speaker 3: it's almost the same percentage as friends, But there's a

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Speaker 3: percentage of kids who don't believe their close adult listens

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Speaker 3: to them, and so they give up. I think, what's.

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Speaker 2: The outcome when children believe that either that close adult

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Speaker 2: either A isn't there at all, or B is there

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Speaker 2: but just doesn't listen and therefore doesn't care. What sort

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Speaker 2: of out comes do we see from a research point

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Speaker 2: of view, and what sort of outcomes do you see

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Speaker 2: act for kids when those adults are not perceived as available.

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Speaker 3: Well, kids feel unloved or uncard for. They don't feel

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Speaker 3: like they're worthy of someone listening to them and their problems.

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Speaker 3: They end up with those problems amplified in their heads,

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Speaker 3: and so they do end up with depression and anxiety.

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Speaker 3: And we're seeing significant increases in young people in our

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Speaker 3: services with depression, anxiety, and just general stress and worry

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Speaker 3: since COVID, like it increased in COVID and it hasn't

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Speaker 3: gone away.

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Speaker 2: I wrote a report just the other day, and I

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Speaker 2: can't remember the name of the research that I lent on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I had access to it right as

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Speaker 1: we're talking.

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Speaker 2: But while I was doing this research for this report,

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Speaker 2: it indicated that prior to COVID, around about fifteen percent

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Speaker 2: of adolescents were showing up with anxiety disorders and anxiety challenges.

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Speaker 2: Since COVID, we've seen that escalate to somewhere around twenty

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Speaker 2: to twenty five percent for boys and as much as

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Speaker 2: forty to forty two percent for girls. Like, the numbers

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Speaker 2: are just astonishingly high over the last couple of years.

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Speaker 2: When I'm listening to what you're saying, Katrina, it also

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Speaker 2: reminded me of the classic Emmy Werner studies, the sociologist

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Speaker 2: who went to that Hawaiian island and studied everybody in

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Speaker 2: a certain community for about forty years, and the number

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Speaker 2: one finding that she uncovered as she did all of

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Speaker 2: her research was at the very core of resilience, at

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Speaker 2: the very core of avoiding maladaptive coping strategies. The stuff

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Speaker 2: that kept kids in school, the stuff that kept kids

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Speaker 2: in good relationships, the stuff that kept them out of

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Speaker 2: jail and off drugs. The stuff that mattered the most

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Speaker 2: was that they had a close, significant adult that they

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Speaker 2: could talk to.

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Speaker 1: Whether it was a parent or.

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Speaker 2: A swim coach, or a church leader, or a school

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Speaker 2: teacher or counselor, or a neighbor or a grandpa or

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Speaker 2: an arti or an uncle.

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Speaker 1: They just had to have a close adult that they

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Speaker 1: could talk to.

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing in your research that we've got nearly half

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Speaker 2: of Australian children, at least half the kids in the sample,

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Speaker 2: a representative Australian sample that are saying I can't talk

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Speaker 2: to anyone.

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Speaker 1: They're not present for me. Am I getting that.

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Speaker 3: Right, absolutely, And that's why we were really really worried

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Speaker 3: because we're seeing those increased rates in all of our

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Speaker 3: services of anxiety and stress and and very interested in

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Speaker 3: what supports children and young people have. And you know,

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Speaker 3: to have forty percent of kids saying they don't talk

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Speaker 3: to anybody is really really concerning because down the track

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Speaker 3: they could end up with significant mental health issues. And

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Speaker 3: certainly they're you know, they must be struggling, sleeping and

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Speaker 3: you know, just going through their day and coping in

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Speaker 3: and so having that close ad of is someone who

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Speaker 3: helps you learn to cope and co regulates your emotions

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Speaker 3: and you know, the problem shared is a problem halved

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Speaker 3: is actually a really true saying. You know, just talking

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Speaker 3: about it and having it out in the open, you realize, oh,

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Speaker 3: this maybe not as big as I thought it was.

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Speaker 3: If somebody acknowledges it and your feelings.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a couple of questions for you to

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Speaker 2: get really practical around this. The first one is a

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Speaker 2: lot of parents will be listening to this and saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: I try, I'm there, Like I asked the kids, what's

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Speaker 2: going on?

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Speaker 1: Can they talk to me? And they just shut me out.

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Speaker 2: As as a psychologist, what's your advice to parents who

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Speaker 2: have kids who don't seem to be willing to communicate

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Speaker 2: even though the parent is present, available and wanting, begging

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Speaker 2: for that conversation.

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Speaker 3: That's really hard, especially if you're going to start with

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Speaker 3: a pointed question, oh is everything okay? Because you know

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Speaker 3: kids are just going to go yep, T no worries

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Speaker 3: at all. What we've been advocating for is to people

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Speaker 3: to start with small talk, because if you start with

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Speaker 3: small talk and you build it into every day, incidental,

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Speaker 3: side by side things, So in the car when you're

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Speaker 3: getting dinner ready together, you're you know, making lunches you

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Speaker 3: all that kind of thing, so they're not the deer

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Speaker 3: in the headlights and you're pinning them with the question.

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Speaker 3: You know. So the more you do that and actually

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Speaker 3: show that you're listening to them, so you're not on

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Speaker 3: your phone, you're not answering the email, you're not thinking

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Speaker 3: five days ahead to what's for dinner or where who's

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Speaker 3: going when you know all of those things, because kids

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Speaker 3: can tell when you're not listening. So it's those incidental

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Speaker 3: things and connecting in with them. And so kids are

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Speaker 3: on their devices all the time now, so you can

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Speaker 3: just check in with them and go, you know, how

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Speaker 3: you going just thinking of you just a simple text

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Speaker 3: or a mean that shows them that you're thinking of

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Speaker 3: them and just trying to build that small talk connection.

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Speaker 3: Because if you've built the small talk connection and you

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Speaker 3: do things with them, then if there's a big talk

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Speaker 3: that needs to happen, the kids will feel like you're

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Speaker 3: listening to them and will actually talk to you.

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Speaker 1: I've got one more question for you.

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Speaker 2: In the survey, you asked a question about how much

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Speaker 2: time these fourteen to eighteen year olds want to spend

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Speaker 2: each day with the adults in their lives.

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Speaker 1: Can you just talk about that for a moment.

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Speaker 3: I know this blew us away one to two hours

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Speaker 3: per day.

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Speaker 2: So what were their options. They could choose from zero

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Speaker 2: up to a certain number of like four or five, six,

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Speaker 2: seven hours.

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Speaker 3: It was less than half half an hour, one to

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Speaker 3: two hours, more than two hours, and none. So twenty

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Speaker 3: eight percent of kids said more than two hours. The

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Speaker 3: majority of kids said one to two hours, and hardly

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Speaker 3: any kid said none or less than half an hour.

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Speaker 3: That just blew us away, because so they're really craving time,

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Speaker 3: and the time they said that they wanted to spend

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Speaker 3: was just hanging out together or chatting in the car,

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Speaker 3: or chatting while we're doing things. We gave them a

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Speaker 3: list of options about when they would want their adult

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Speaker 3: to listen to them, so they're really clear they just

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Speaker 3: want to hang out with the close adult and have

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Speaker 3: the opportunity for that person to listen to them.

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Speaker 1: I love this finding.

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Speaker 2: I mean it flies in the face of everything that

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Speaker 2: people have always said about teenagers. They're moody, they're someone

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Speaker 2: they don't want to hang out with the adults they're

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Speaker 2: supposed to separate from their parents, And here we've got

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Speaker 2: fourteen to eighteen year olds saying if I could spend

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Speaker 2: one or two hours every day with my parents, I'd

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Speaker 2: be spoked.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Quarter of them, more than a quarter them want

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Speaker 3: more than two hours. Yeah, which is just outstanding. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I mean they don't want you to sit and

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: Not looking for the meaningful conversation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. They doesn't want that. They just want

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Speaker 3: to be able to do stuff together.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Katrina Lyons is the CEO of Act for Kids,

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Speaker 2: charity that helps keep kids safe, heal from trauma, and

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Speaker 2: lead happy lives. The new report the new campaign get

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Speaker 2: Comfy Switching on by switching off. We'll link to it

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Speaker 2: in the show notes. Katrina, what a delightful conversation. We

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Speaker 2: so appreciate you spending some time with us on the

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Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast to talk about something that I think

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Speaker 2: we'll give a whole lot of parents of adolescents a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of hope.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Justin.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for

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Speaker 2: more andfol about making your family happier, check out the

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Speaker 2: show notes for the details of Act for Kids, or

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Speaker 2: visit us at Happy families, dot com, dot au,