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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is the member

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Speaker 1: for Barkley and the opposition spokesperson on a number of

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Speaker 1: different portfolio Steve Edgington.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, good morning Katie, and good morning to all the listeners.

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Speaker 1: Steve, I tell you it was an interesting revelation yesterday

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Speaker 1: and we spoke to Robin Lamley about this a little

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Speaker 1: bit earlier. But forty prisoners currently being housed at the

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Speaker 1: watchhouse in Darwin doesn't sound like ideal conditions to be

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Speaker 1: holding people there.

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Speaker 3: Well, it certainly isn't turned when it comes to hours

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Speaker 3: outside of cells. Quite simply, when you're spending time in

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Speaker 3: a watchhouse and there are forty prisoners there at the moment,

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Speaker 3: what it means is that the best that can really

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Speaker 3: happen is that somebody could step outside of their cell

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Speaker 3: into a perhaps a shared area, but in reality they're

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Speaker 3: not stepping out and getting any sunshine, going for any

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Speaker 3: real exercise. And the conditions being experienced in the Dawn

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Speaker 3: Watchhouse compared to what's going on in Dalen Alice Springs

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Speaker 3: around Bachelor and the Barkley completely different. So those prisoners

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Speaker 3: are being exposed to pretty harsh conditions.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, Steve, do we know what period of time?

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Speaker 1: Was there any indication yesterday throughout budget estimates about what

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Speaker 1: period of time people are being housed in there?

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Speaker 3: For well, I think it was the Commissioner Corrections indicated

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Speaker 3: that there is a rotation going through there. That so

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Speaker 3: the ideal, well, I think he said the plan was

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Speaker 3: that those prisoners would be rotated through there, and I

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Speaker 3: think he look, don't quote me on it, but I

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Speaker 3: think he said every couple of weeks, prisoners would be

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Speaker 3: rotated through the police watchhouse back into the prison system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So, no matter how you look at it,

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Speaker 1: it is not an ideal scenario. And it's certainly not

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Speaker 1: an ideal scenario then when you look at making sure

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Speaker 1: that people are being rehabilitated while they are in prison.

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Speaker 3: Well, exactly. And you know, we spent a lot of

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Speaker 3: time yesterday going through a whole range of different rehabilitation

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Speaker 3: type programs and treatment programs that we were told of

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Speaker 3: being delivered in the prisons, and that range from behavioral

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Speaker 3: intervention to specialist treatment programs and offense related programs. But

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Speaker 3: you know, we heard about all these programs being conducted

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Speaker 3: in prisons. But what we did find out was that

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Speaker 3: the recidivism rate is still around about fifty seven percent,

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Speaker 3: So when people leave prison, they're committing further offenses within

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Speaker 3: two years of leaving that prison. Now, fifty seven percent

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Speaker 3: is a very high recidivism rate compared to look at

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Speaker 3: Western Australia, their recidivism rate is thirty one percent, Victoria

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Speaker 3: at thirty seven percent. So on a national average, the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory has the highest rate out of any jurisdiction

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Speaker 3: right across the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right now, Steve, I do just want to play

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Speaker 1: a little bit of audio from yesterday's budget estimates.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen, minister.

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Speaker 3: Is a knife an offensive weapon?

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Speaker 4: Thank you men Beer for Berkley. Again, in the legislation

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Speaker 4: that was brought forward Parliament, which is talk through a

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Speaker 4: number of items that were in the prohibited and controlled weapons,

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Speaker 4: and we had said that the Bail Review Task Force

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Speaker 4: would consider and look at items that are currently in

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Speaker 4: the offensive weapons. In relation to your particular question, I

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Speaker 4: would refer that to Standing Order one oh nine. You're

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Speaker 4: asking me for a hypothetical or a personal opinion that it's.

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Speaker 3: Not hypothetical, Minister. There is a definition contained in the

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Speaker 3: Weapons Control Act regarding offensive weapons? Does that include a knife?

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Speaker 4: Thank you again. I think the question in relation to

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Speaker 4: the Member for Barclay is what is is whether it's

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Speaker 4: a controlled or a prohibited weapon and we did talk

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Speaker 4: about that at length on the floor of Parliament in

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Speaker 4: the committee stage amendments.

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Speaker 2: Steve, did you get to the bottom of.

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Speaker 3: That q in the end? No, No, we simply had

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Speaker 3: to move on, Katie because look, clearly the Attorney General

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Speaker 3: didn't know what type of you know, whether it was

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Speaker 3: an offensive weapon, a controlled weapon or a prohibited weapon.

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Speaker 3: There's a range of definitions in the Weapons Control Act,

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Speaker 3: which formed part of the current government's recent changes to

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Speaker 3: the Barlacks. So clearly there's a lack of understanding around

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Speaker 3: really where does the knife fit into the current bail

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Speaker 3: changes that were made recently. But you know, that's what

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Speaker 3: we're up against in the Northern Territory and Attorney General

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Speaker 3: that doesn't really know his legislation, and he's supposed to

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Speaker 3: be the top, you know, the top person when it

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Speaker 3: comes to legal issues.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask as well, Steve, there has been

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Speaker 1: so much discussion about the payout to the former police

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Speaker 1: commissioner Jamie Chalker. Now we still don't know exactly how

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Speaker 1: much the payout was worth, but the ABC News last

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Speaker 1: night revered that the Police Commissioner, well, the legal fees

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Speaker 1: were up almost seventeen thousand dollars. Are you surprised by

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Speaker 1: that figure?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's very surprising, and I certainly put questions to

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Speaker 3: the Attorney General yesterday. What I wanted to know was

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Speaker 3: what the legal fees were. But the important part that

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Speaker 3: I asked Katie was that what was the legal fees

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Speaker 3: regarding representation for the Chief Minister and the Police Minister.

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Speaker 3: So looking at those legal fees, I'm still a little

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Speaker 3: bit uncertain whether those legal fees relate to the costs

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Speaker 3: of representing the Chief Minister the Police Minister, and whether

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Speaker 3: they relate to Jamie Chalker's legal fees or whether that's

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Speaker 3: the entire legal fees that were incurred dealing with the

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Speaker 3: whole matter. So I think there's a little bit more

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Speaker 3: to a bit more clarity that's needed around those legal

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Speaker 3: fees at the moment, because what we do know is

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Speaker 3: that the Chief Minister and the Police Minister, you know,

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Speaker 3: they were respondents to a claim that the Police Commissioner

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Speaker 3: put forward in court. So look, it's a matter of

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Speaker 3: how much was paid out so that the Police Minister

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Speaker 3: and the Chief Minister really didn't have to appear in court.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel a bit the same.

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Speaker 1: I think that there is still quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: info that needs to come to hand when you talk

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Speaker 1: about those legal fees and exactly what that almost seventeen

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars covers. But Steve, before I let you go,

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Speaker 1: this morning news filtering through slowly that we have got

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Speaker 1: a situation with a Nightcliff Primary School was broken into overnight.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately the preschool and transition classes not able to get

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Speaker 1: under weigh. Today we have had confirmation from the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police that they are indeed investigating the report of

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Speaker 1: an unlawful entry at the school. That report came through

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Speaker 1: about about seven point thirty this morning.

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Speaker 2: The police are on the scene right now.

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Speaker 1: It is a very ordinary situation that you know, students

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Speaker 1: are having to be turned.

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Speaker 2: Away as a result of a.

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Speaker 3: Breaking Oh, it's very sad news coming out and you

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Speaker 3: know we've heard the impact that crime is having right

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Speaker 3: across the board at the moment, and you know the

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Speaker 3: Education Minister just last week, you know I tried to

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Speaker 3: shout down our education shadow Minister for asking a question

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Speaker 3: about crime and the impact that it's having on schools

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Speaker 3: and education right across the Northern Territory. And here's a

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Speaker 3: clear example of students now being unable to go to school.

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Speaker 3: And the very thought that families must be facing at

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Speaker 3: the moment is how safe is it right across the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory. Are our schools safe? Are our teachers safe?

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Speaker 3: But the impact of this is obviously devastating to all

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Speaker 3: of those students and teachers out at Nightcliffe and crime

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Speaker 3: is really taking hold, but the Government continues to drag

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Speaker 3: its heels when it comes to dealing with crime across

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, Steve Edgington, the Member for Barclay but also the

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Speaker 1: Shadow Attorney General and Minister for Justice and various other portfolios.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much

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Speaker 1: for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Cody, and good morning to our listeners.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.