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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, if you're a parent who is worried that because

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Speaker 2: of the lockdown, or because of the pandemic, or because

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Speaker 2: you've lost a job, or because of just life, if

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Speaker 2: you're concerned for your own child's safety, jump off the

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Speaker 2: fond a parent line.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Gooday.

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Speaker 2: This is doctor Justin Coulson, the author of a bunch

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Speaker 2: of books about happy families. Here with Kylie, my wife

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Speaker 2: from unto our six daughters and Kylie and on. When

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Speaker 2: we talk about happy families today, not so much happiness

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Speaker 2: A bit of a tough topic today.

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Speaker 4: Well, we're coming from the doctor's desk and we've actually

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Speaker 4: called in another expert today. You are not king Pin today.

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Speaker 2: I'm okay with that because the information that we're going

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Speaker 2: to share with you is just so important. So over

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Speaker 2: the last couple of Doctor's Desk episodes that we've done,

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Speaker 2: we do it about once a month, sometimes twice. As

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Speaker 2: data comes across the desk, I look at that data,

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Speaker 2: look at those reports. I have a look at the

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Speaker 2: media releases, whatever it might be, and report on what

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Speaker 2: new science is telling us. And we've emphasized the impact

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Speaker 2: that COVID and specifically lockdowns are having on the mental

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Speaker 2: health or the ill mental health, the ill health of

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Speaker 2: our children and young people. A trigger warning before we start.

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Speaker 2: The conversation today is not rated explicit, but we do

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Speaker 2: advise listener discretion. We will be discussing themes of suicide

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Speaker 2: and abuse because unfortunately there have been some new studies

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Speaker 2: published or some new research printed that helps us to

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Speaker 2: get a good idea of what's actually going on here. Now,

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Speaker 2: what we were going to talk about was some studies that

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Speaker 2: showed that eating disorders were rising significantly in Australia because

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Speaker 2: of COVID. That's what I intended to talk about, but

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Speaker 2: a media release came across my desk from Kids' Helpline

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Speaker 2: and it grabbed my attention and I just knew this

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Speaker 2: was the conversation we have to have today. So the

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Speaker 2: eating disorder stuff we're going to push back for another

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Speaker 2: week or two. Tony Fitzgerald is the virtual services manager

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Speaker 2: at Your Town and Kids Helpline, and Tony joins us today. Tony,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Thanks for giving us

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Speaker 2: your time.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so much, Justin. Great to be with.

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Speaker 4: You, Tony.

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Speaker 2: Some statistics that Kids Helpline has compiled tell a fairly

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Speaker 2: confronting and very challenging story when it comes to Australia

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Speaker 2: and young people and their ill health mentally. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell us what you discovered and why you were looking

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Speaker 2: at in the first place.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks Justin. Over the last six months, you know,

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Speaker 5: COVID's been going on for over twelve months now and

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Speaker 5: we've generally seen the impact on the mental health and

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Speaker 5: well being for young people because they contact us and

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Speaker 5: they tell us what's going on. But over the last

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Speaker 5: six months, their counselors were telling us that they were

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Speaker 5: seeing an increase in their need to support young people

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Speaker 5: in crisis, particularly around suicide and child abuse. And you know,

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Speaker 5: we have a threshold we have to enact what we

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Speaker 5: call duty care and get support to young people straight

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Speaker 5: away because they're an immediate risk of harm. So our

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Speaker 5: counselors were telling us that that they were really seeing

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Speaker 5: on a daily basis a fairly significant increase in the

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Speaker 5: need for them to support young people around these specific issues.

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Speaker 5: So that caused us to have a look at the data.

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Speaker 5: And see what it was telling us. And the release

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Speaker 5: we put out showed that over the last six months,

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Speaker 5: so from the first of December last year through to

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Speaker 5: the end of May this year, nationally, we saw a

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Speaker 5: ninety nine percent increase in those duty of care interventions,

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Speaker 5: those interventions where we've had to get immediate support or

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Speaker 5: report to child safety an issue with a young person

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Speaker 5: around child abuse and or around suicide risk specifically.

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Speaker 2: So what you're saying when you say you have to

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Speaker 2: call for an immediate intervention, you're essentially saying you've got

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Speaker 2: to send an ambulance to their house, or you've got

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Speaker 2: to send the police to the house or somebody to

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Speaker 2: immediately help them because there's a crisis unfolding.

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Speaker 5: Correct, because our counselors have done that assessment, and that

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Speaker 5: assessment tells us that that young person is at imminent

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Speaker 5: risk of harm to themselves. So that was quite concerning.

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Speaker 5: And then, you know, having a look at some of

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Speaker 5: the state data, we saw that there were you know,

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Speaker 5: that this increase was generally uniform across the board, but

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Speaker 5: then when we drilled down to Victorias specifically, the increase

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Speaker 5: was across the board. For judy Care was one hundred

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Speaker 5: and eighty four percent compared to the same period last year,

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Speaker 5: and if you recall that last year also included the

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Speaker 5: first two or three months of COVID, and then when

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Speaker 5: we drilled down, it showed a forty four percent increase

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Speaker 5: in our need to support a young person who was

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Speaker 5: at immediate risk of suicide and a thirty one percent

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Speaker 5: increase to support a young person who was a metate

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Speaker 5: risk of harm as a result of abuse that was

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Speaker 5: occurring predominally in the home. And that was Victoria only.

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Speaker 5: The stats for some of the other states are a variable.

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Speaker 5: In other states, child abuse is actually higher than suicide,

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Speaker 5: but Victoria stood out because of that overall global one

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Speaker 5: hundred and eighty four percent increase.

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Speaker 4: Those numbers are staggering, Tony. When we looked at that release,

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Speaker 4: and notice that you know the age group where it

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Speaker 4: seems to be most vulnerable as though, thirteen to eighteen

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Speaker 4: year olds. When you look at the data, are these

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Speaker 4: children known to you? Are they or are these just

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Speaker 4: new cases that are coming out. We're talking about COVID here,

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Speaker 4: and you know the acknowledgment that COVID is having an

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Speaker 4: impact on society and specifically on our young people and

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Speaker 4: their mental health and their safety. But is COVID to blame?

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Speaker 4: Is that is that the real problem or is there

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Speaker 4: more to it?

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Speaker 5: Look, I think it's clear that data is clear that

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Speaker 5: a particularly given the increase in Victoria alone, we know

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Speaker 5: that Victoria has been impacted probably more than any other

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Speaker 5: state in the country over the last twelve months, that

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Speaker 5: COVID and the pandemic must be playing some kind of

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Speaker 5: a role here. What we're seeing in the young people

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Speaker 5: that we're supporting is that many of them might be

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Speaker 5: those who have contacted us over a period of time

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Speaker 5: and have an existing established relationship with one of our counselors,

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Speaker 5: and their mental health has escalated over a period of time,

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Speaker 5: and that they then come to us with that need

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Speaker 5: for immediate crisis support. Other instances might be might be,

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Speaker 5: for instance, young people who've contacted us for the first time,

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Speaker 5: but nevertheless do have some kind of history, some longstanding

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Speaker 5: history or ongoing history of mental health, and COVID has

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Speaker 5: just exacerbated what's going on for them, you know, and

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Speaker 5: whether that's lockdown's, whether that's isolation from their friends and

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Speaker 5: their peers, the additional pressures on families as a result

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Speaker 5: of loss of jobs, the whole, the whole gamut of

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Speaker 5: impacts that COVID has had and we've seen across the

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Speaker 5: board is really impacting our young people.

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Speaker 2: We're talking to Tony Fitzgerald. He's the Virtual services manager

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Speaker 2: at Kids Helpline and Your Town and just a second,

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Speaker 2: we're going to find out what we can do if

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Speaker 2: we're concerned about our children's wellbeing and what we can

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Speaker 2: also do to protect them from the ongoing impact of

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Speaker 2: COVID within our families.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: Our Screens Creating Tension at Home, tweens, teens and Screens

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Speaker 3: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.

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Speaker 3: Bye Today at happyfamilies dot com, dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now, And today we're

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Speaker 4: having a rather difficult conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about the increased incidence of suicide attempts,

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Speaker 2: suicidality and child abuse that seems to be very clearly

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Speaker 2: linked with not just COVID. But I think I'm going

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Speaker 2: to distance Kid's Helpline and Tony from this. I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to put it out there as a doctor Justin

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Speaker 2: Coulson hypothesis, the exacerbated risk to our children's mental health

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Speaker 2: as a result of ongoing lockdowns, because Victoria is absolutely

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Speaker 2: getting poundered, and data from around the world seems to

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Speaker 2: be showing the same thing. The more that there are lockdowns,

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Speaker 2: the greater the impact on mental health. It's almost like

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Speaker 2: the health officers the epidemiologists. And I'm very very clear here,

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Speaker 2: I'm not an epidemiologist, nor am I saying that I

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Speaker 2: know better. I'm not making that point at all. What

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Speaker 2: I am suggesting is that when we make avoidance of

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Speaker 2: COVID outbreaks our sole determined of whether or not we're

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Speaker 2: being successful at the moment in the global pandemic, we

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Speaker 2: miss a lot of other things that are going to

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Speaker 2: contribute to other factors that can lead to increased mental illness,

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Speaker 2: increased risk of suicide, increased risk of abuse, and all

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Speaker 2: of the other challenges that go along with a family

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Speaker 2: who can no longer provide because they've lost their business,

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Speaker 2: or relationships that are shattering because people just can't actually

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Speaker 2: live together. They don't like each other that much. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: they don't have happy families and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So the data seems to be pointing really clearly that

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Speaker 2: Victoria's fourth lockdown has been unhelpful and maybe even genuinely

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Speaker 2: detrimental at least for some. The other point that Tony

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Speaker 2: made before we go back to Tony is the idea

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Speaker 2: that the word that I use is the pandemic, and

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Speaker 2: especially if the lockdowns have been an accelerant. So you

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Speaker 2: asked whether or not the kids that were at risk

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Speaker 2: were already at risk or whether COVID has created it,

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Speaker 2: and Tony suggested that most of these kids have already

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Speaker 2: had underlying pre existing mental health issues that already quiet attention,

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Speaker 2: and now they're calling Kids Helpline because the lockdowns and

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Speaker 2: the pandemic and the isolation, et cetera, et cetera, seems

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Speaker 2: who have exacerbated accelerated what's going on. So that's the

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Speaker 2: kind of the breakdown from where I'm looking at it,

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Speaker 2: and I know that there's a bit of hypothetical conjecture

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Speaker 2: going in there from me, and like I said, I

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Speaker 2: want to distance Kids Helpline from it. They're not saying that,

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Speaker 2: and it's not something that we're going to ask them about.

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Speaker 2: But Tony, Kylie and I were talking about this before

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Speaker 2: we got to chat with you. If I'm a parent

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Speaker 2: and I'm not coping because my partner or I have

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Speaker 2: lost our jobs and we can't make ends meet, and

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Speaker 2: there's friction in the home, and we've got a child

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Speaker 2: who's got underlying mental health issues, or maybe we've got

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Speaker 2: them ourselves, or there's drug and alcohol abuse, whatever the

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Speaker 2: case may be. If I'm concerned about my child's well being,

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Speaker 2: how do I know? I mean, I've done podcasts on

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Speaker 2: this before, but you're at the call face, you're actually

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Speaker 2: getting the phone calls. If I'm worried, how do I

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Speaker 2: know that I should be worried? What do you look

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Speaker 2: for when you get these calls to kids helpline?

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Speaker 5: Look, I think it's going to be something you have

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Speaker 5: to take on a case by case basis, and parents

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Speaker 5: know their kids the best, right, you know. I think

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Speaker 5: one of the things you've highlighted is if if you're

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Speaker 5: not looking after yourself as a parent and your mental

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Speaker 5: health is not great, you're not going to be in

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Speaker 5: a good position to figure out what's going on for

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Speaker 5: your children as well. So Number one is look after yourself.

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Speaker 5: That's that's that's one of the key messages that we

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Speaker 5: would we would certainly put out there. But in terms

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Speaker 5: of your children, you know, I think it's really as

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Speaker 5: a parent being attuned to those changes in behavior that

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Speaker 5: don't really seem to be in place, that are a

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Speaker 5: bit odd. And that's compounded at the moment and has

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Speaker 5: been for the last twelve months because normally, you know,

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Speaker 5: if your child's going to school and they're interacting with

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Speaker 5: their friends and all of a sudden that stops, you

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Speaker 5: kind of that's a bit of a red flag in

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Speaker 5: terms of something going on. But if they're not at

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Speaker 5: school and they're not interacting, you don't have that Q

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Speaker 5: do you. You can't necessarily see that. So it's really

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Speaker 5: I think being attuned and looking out for those significant

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Speaker 5: shifts in behavior at the home and what you're observing

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Speaker 5: that look a little out of place and doesn't seem right,

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Speaker 5: whether sleeping patterns are being interrupted, whether eating patterns are

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Speaker 5: being interrupted, whether your child or young ones stops doing

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Speaker 5: things that normally they would really really enjoy. It's been

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Speaker 5: keeping a lookout for those things. But I think the

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Speaker 5: most important thing then is if you're concerned about it,

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Speaker 5: is just creating some space to listen and a really

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Speaker 5: a good environment for your kids to have a conversation

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Speaker 5: with you about what's going on. When kids contact us,

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Speaker 5: overwhelmingly they just want someone to listen to them, and

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Speaker 5: they tell us that at times they don't want to

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Speaker 5: bother mom and dad with what's going on because they

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Speaker 5: don't feel like they're being listened to, or they're worried

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Speaker 5: because mum and dad are going through stuff as well

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Speaker 5: and they don't want to place that extra burden on them.

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Speaker 5: So I think it's really about crowding an environment for

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Speaker 5: discussion and you know, for your kids to raise those

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Speaker 5: kind of issues, and for you then as a parent,

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Speaker 5: not to just jump to judgment or jump to a

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Speaker 5: solution immediately, as difficult as that might be for a parent,

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Speaker 5: when you finally, all of a sudden discover that your

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Speaker 5: child is going through some significant mental health concerns, it

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Speaker 5: can be really really confronting and parents may not know

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Speaker 5: what to do. But I think that first step is

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Speaker 5: to react calmly and to be supportive and loving and

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Speaker 5: non judgmental as you possibly can. And if you're not

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Speaker 5: coping and you're struggling to know what to do, it's

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Speaker 5: always a great thing as a parent to who encourage

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Speaker 5: your child if okay, make it clear to them if

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Speaker 5: you don't, if you don't want to have a chat

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Speaker 5: to me and I understand that. Then you know the

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Speaker 5: services like Kids' Helpline where you can get on the

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Speaker 5: phone and speak to a counselor, and that's perfectly fine.

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Speaker 5: If you feel more comfortable talking in a confidential environment

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Speaker 5: about what's going on, then we really should be encouraging

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Speaker 5: that with our kids at an early age, you know,

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Speaker 5: normalizing that help seeking behavior and helping them understand that

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Speaker 5: it's perfectly normal to talk to someone about what's going

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Speaker 5: on your town.

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Speaker 2: Which is behind Kids' Helpline, is also behind parent Line correct,

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Speaker 2: and parent Line has been advertising on the Happy Families

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Speaker 2: podcast for the last little while so that we can

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Speaker 2: get the message out that parents need to have important

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Speaker 2: conversations and sometimes a counselor is the person to do that.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually going to explicitly say that if you're a

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Speaker 2: parent who is worried that because of the lockdown, or

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Speaker 2: because of the pandemic, or because you've lost a job,

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Speaker 2: or because of just life, if you can and for

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Speaker 2: your own child's safety, jump off the fond a parent line.

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Speaker 2: They're not there to get you in trouble. They're there

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Speaker 2: to support you and help you. Is it okay if

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Speaker 2: I give that little plug to.

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Speaker 5: More than parent Line is there for exactly the same

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Speaker 5: reason as Kids for parents, as Kids Helpline is there

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Speaker 5: for kids. You know, it doesn't matter what the issue is.

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Speaker 5: If you, as a parent are concerned about your children

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Speaker 5: or others children and you need to contact us, you

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Speaker 5: can and you can have that conversation with us. And

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Speaker 5: you know there's a parent line in every state. We

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Speaker 5: run the parent Line that services Queensland Northern Territory, but

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Speaker 5: if you jump on our parent Line website you can

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Speaker 5: see the other parent lines that you'll be able to

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Speaker 5: contact as well. But you know, it's not that uncommon

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Speaker 5: for parents to contact Kids Helpline as well, And if

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Speaker 5: a parent does, we'll always have a conversation with them

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Speaker 5: and try and point them in the right direction. So

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Speaker 5: so either all but certainly parent Line is there is

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Speaker 5: a great resource for parents.

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Speaker 2: And an interest of full disclosure, I wasn't actually aware

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Speaker 2: that you had that relationship between those two lines when

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Speaker 2: we began the conversation, and there is no conflict of

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Speaker 2: interest or anything funny going on here. This isn't some

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Speaker 2: sort of an advertorial. This is purely because this is

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Speaker 2: an issue I saw at the media release and really

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk about it. Tony Fitzgerald, You've been a

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Speaker 2: wonderful support, a wealth of information and a delightful person

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Speaker 2: to talk to about such a serious issue. Tony Fitzgerald's

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Speaker 2: the virtual services manager at your Town and Kids Helpline.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for spending some time with Kyle and

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Speaker 2: Are today.

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Speaker 5: It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me,

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Speaker 5: and best wishes to everyone.

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Speaker 2: We really hope that this has been a helpful conversation

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Speaker 2: for you. If you do need help again, contact Kids

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Speaker 2: Helpline or parent Line and they will do all that

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Speaker 2: they can to provide the service, the assistance, the counseling

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Speaker 2: that you need to help your family to be stronger

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Speaker 2: and happier. The Happy Famili's podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 2: Rulan from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer,

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Speaker 2: and if you'd like more info about making your family happier,

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Speaker 2: you can get our support as well all at Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot au.