1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Michelle Ford is one of the earliest pioneers of Australian 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: women in sport. At just thirteen years of age, she 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: made her Olympic debut at the nineteen seventy six Montreal Games, 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: but it was four years later at the Moscow Games 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: where her story truly began. Set against the backdrop of 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: the Cold War and Russia's invasion of Afghanistan, the Australian 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: government publicly pressured the Australian Olympic Federation to boycott the 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: Moscow Games. Despite the pressure, Australia decided to send a team, 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: which Michelle was proudly a part of. Except instead of 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: being celebrated, athletes like Michelle were vilified, threatened, and then 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: labeled as traders. To make matters worse, the East German 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: athletes competing at the Games were taking part in state 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: sanctioned doping. But despite it all, Michelle became the only 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: non Soviet block swimmer to win a gold medal at 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: the Moscow Games and prevent a clean sweep by the 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: East German swim Welcome back to the Female Athlete Project 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: and thanks for pressing play on today's episode. This week, 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Chloe sits down with Michelle Ford to discuss her successful 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: career in the pool, but also out of the pool, 20 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: becoming a member of the first IOC Athletes Commission and 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: manager of the Sydney two thousand Organizing Committee. 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 2: This episode has been. 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Released in the same week the Australian Government has formally 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: recognized and welcomed home the nineteen eighty Moscow Olympians of 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: forty five years on. We hope you enjoy Michelle's story 26 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: and if you want to learn more, head to the 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: link in the show notes to purchase her book, Turning 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: the Tide. 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: Michelle Ford, Welcome to the Female Athlete Project. 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: Thanks very much, Chloe, and thanks for having me. 31 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: It's a pleasure to have you here. I'm really really 32 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 3: interested to chat about your story. It's quite an amazing story. 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 3: Can we go back to the beginning though? Can you 34 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 3: describe yourself as a young person. 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: Sure, I'd like to go back to those days when 36 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: you're young and full of energy and very naive. And 37 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: I look at myself, you know, going training, coming, getting 38 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: to school, really just doing it on a daily beg. 39 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: My swimming career, of course, was a daily normal program 40 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: me myself. I guess I was very timid. I was 41 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: very I listened to the coach. I wanted to please. 42 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: I wanted to I wanted to win. I love the 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 2: chicken handicap and to win that chicken. 44 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: What's the handicap? 45 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: The chicken handicap was we were all sent off the 46 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: blocks at different times, and I would always be sent 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 2: off at the This is when I was probably ten, 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: and I was sent off at thirty seconds after the 49 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: first person, because we're all different levels. And I just 50 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: wanted that chicken. It was a dead chicken. Was driven I, 51 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: I guess by like a roast chicken. No, not even 52 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: just a dead chicken. 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: And what would you do with it? You just wanted 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: to win it. 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: I just wanted to win it. The chicken handicap. You've 56 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 2: got to win the chicken. 57 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: So is that a big thing in swimming or that 58 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: was specific to you? 59 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: It was my club. It was a club thing. 60 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: Yeah right, I was going to say, I haven't heard 61 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: of that one before, the chicken handicap. 62 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: I like that. 63 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: Where did you first find a love for swimming? 64 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: We were lucky to live by the water. My father 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: was a sailor and he actually went as a warm 66 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: up boat at the Olympics for Montreal. But the water 67 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: sort of just drove me and we swam. In fact, 68 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: we did every sport you could imagine. Yeah, and swimming 69 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: just took took me and to the next level of 70 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: straight to the Olympics at thirteen. So I was still young, 71 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: very young. 72 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: How on earth do you go to the Olympics at 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 3: thirteen years old? 74 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: I think a lot of the administrators asked the same question. 75 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: But I do believe that I'd already established my times 76 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: as world times at twelve, and then I saw the 77 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: sites of the goal to be the Olympics, and so 78 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: I made the team at thirteen. 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 3: That's quite insane. How much of that do you remember, 80 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 3: Like it's such a young age to go to such 81 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: a huge global event. 82 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: I must say that there wasn't much TV back then. 83 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: There wasn't much publicity right and build up to the Olympics. 84 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: But yet when the Olympics was on, fortunately on the 85 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: screen as we watched the Munich Olympics, you understood that 86 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: that was the stage you wanted to be on, and 87 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: that just drove and you know, you have your different 88 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: go along the way. But my goal became very quickly 89 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: the Olympics and I wanted to win. At thirteen, I 90 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: thought I was going to be up there on the dice. 91 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 3: What was the experience like, so we're talking nineteen seventy 92 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 3: six for this one. What was the experience like as 93 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: a woman at those Olympics. 94 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: It was very tough. As I looked back at it 95 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: at the time, I guess you just have your blinkers on. 96 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: You're thirteen, you just go with what's being said. But 97 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 2: everything was wrong. The boys were treated different than the girls. 98 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: The boys were giving liberties, the girls were stuck in 99 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: we in training camp, we were stuck in the rooms 100 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: for six six hours while the boys were allowed out 101 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: going to the you know, going out and about, and 102 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: we had to stay in our rooms, locked in our rooms. 103 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: I mean, it was just wrong. And that was the 104 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: whole way through my career as a swimmer, the disparity. 105 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: And of course then we got to Montreal and there 106 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: was another eye opener in Montreal with the East German girls, 107 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: who obviously were on something that we didn't know at 108 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: the time, and they refuted it, but they were bigger, stronger, 109 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: more masculine than anyone could believe. 110 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to get to that doping conversation a 111 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: little bit down the track, but just coming back to 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: that being locked in your room. What were you told 113 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 3: was the reason? Did they claim it was for safety? 114 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 3: What were they saying to you back there? 115 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 2: Safety always works safety. Oh, the girls can't go out. 116 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: We don't want you eating too much. I mean the 117 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: girls even on the flight on the way This was 118 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: later in Moscow, but on our flights we had to 119 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: have different menu than the boys. We were allowed to 120 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: eat anything. And we're on a twenty six hour flight 121 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: over the Europe and we were starting. We were athletes, 122 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: like we wanted to eat, we needed to eat, So 123 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: there was a whole we didn't have nutrition back then. 124 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: The coaches just threw whatever they thought was relevant. But 125 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: they whether they realized the distinction between what they were 126 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: doing with the girls and the boys. But there was 127 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: a definite harder trail for the girls to work through. 128 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: And so I imagine you were doing a very similar 129 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: volume of training to these male athletes, but they were 130 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: being fed a lot more. Were they were the coaches 131 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: trying to make it about body image or did they 132 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: just not think your nutritional needs were as high as 133 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 3: It's quite crazy to hear to be honest. 134 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it got boiled down to the wains. 135 00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: Wow. 136 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 2: We had open ways whereby the everyone on the team, 137 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 2: the boys and the girls, were standing there and only 138 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: the girls got paid in and our weights were broadcasted 139 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: and oh, you've put on one out, and like, sure, 140 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: it depends on the time of day. We're young kids, 141 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: we're thirteen fourteen year olds. Of course we're going to 142 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: change in weight. And I think they was it was 143 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: very tough on us mentally to manage that at that 144 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: age group. And I see, you know kids who think 145 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: of their weight all the time, that that age is destructive. Yeah. 146 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. And even thinking back then, there wasn't like there's 147 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: so much access now to education, wellbeing support, mental health 148 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 3: support that I don't imagine you had a lot of 149 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: access to back then. 150 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: No. 151 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: Nothing. Our coaches didn't have the scientific backing either. We 152 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: didn't have the Institute of Sport. It was only began 153 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one, so before that, I was in 154 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 2: seventy six. So all that period we were there was 155 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: trial and error, right, and I think they thought what 156 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: they were doing was maybe okay, but it was devastating 157 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: and the girls on the team many had mental problems after. Yeah. 158 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: So would you say, as a thirteen year old who 159 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: turned fourteen during that experience, would you say that you 160 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 3: enjoyed your experience at your first Olympics. 161 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, because the Olympics brings out something more dynamic 162 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: in you, more more oh wow, the wow factor. You 163 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: felt You're on the biggest stage for sport in the world. 164 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: You're there, you made it, you know, but there was 165 00:09:54,400 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of background noise that inhibited 166 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: you from releasing everything and really enjoying it. And I 167 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: think that's the when I came back from Montreal, I 168 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: was fourteen and I said to my coach, I'm out. 169 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 2: I can't keep going. It's too much work for the 170 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: amount of and the nineteen seventy six Olympic team, it 171 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: was the first Olympics Australia has not won a gold medal. Wow, 172 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 2: and the swimming team in particular, we won one bronze, 173 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 2: which was unheard of. So we were criticized massively by 174 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: the media, by our coaches, by everyone. So it was tough. 175 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. So if we go from there and fast forward 176 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 3: to the next Olympics cycle, I said to you off 177 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: air before we recorded that Our average audience is probably 178 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 3: between twenties and thirties, so have potentially heard of the 179 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 3: boycott around nineteen eighty. But can you give us some 180 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 3: insight from your perspective and explain what actually happened in 181 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 3: the lead up to those Olympics. 182 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: Sure if I I think a lot of people now 183 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: remember what happened in the Covid Olympics, that being Tokyo 184 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and the athlete who had to train for 185 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: an Olympics that they weren't sure whether it was going 186 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: to happen or not. Yes, and that was a bit 187 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: like what we went through in nineteen eighty. The Americans 188 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: called the boycott, well, President Carter called the boy said 189 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: he would boycott the games whilst the Russians were invading Afghanistan. 190 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: But the athlete, as an athlete, you just say, what's 191 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 2: this about? So you don't listened to it at the 192 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: first instance. But that was six months before the games 193 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 2: actually were to be held in July, So we're talking 194 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: January to July. That six months of training that everyone 195 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: in the West pretty much because the US president called 196 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 2: up the Australian president and presidents around the world from 197 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 2: the Western countries to stop them going to the games 198 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 2: and asked them to boycott. Our government followed suit and 199 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: wanted to boycott as well. The decision the International Olympic 200 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:45,719 Speaker 2: Committee sends out their invitations to the National Olympic committees 201 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: whether or not they participate in April May, and that's 202 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: when D Day actually happened for the US. They were 203 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 2: told they're not going to the Olympics. Then crescendo of 204 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 2: countries followed. A lot of countries like Great Britain and Australia. 205 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: The national Olympic committees decided that we would go. The 206 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: government put on a lot of pressure on the athletes. 207 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: They called us every day, they put out in the 208 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: media this negative, negative approach to athletes who would go, however, 209 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: and they were offering six thousand, like a lot of 210 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: money for us in those days. 211 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 3: They were offering money for you to go. 212 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: To not go, and they were offering federations, the national 213 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: bodies a lot of money not to go. So it 214 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 2: was a bribery wow pretty much to not go. And 215 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: they keeped insisting for the national the Australian Olympic Federation 216 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: at the time, and to revote, and so we didn't 217 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: know where were going until I think to two weeks 218 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: before the games, which, like I said, it's a bit 219 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: like you're going, you're not, You're going, you're not, and 220 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: you don't really that training, that mental the mental training, 221 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: the physical training. It's not all coordinated are You're all 222 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: over the place. And you know, the public was Australia. 223 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: The nation was split whether we should go or not. 224 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: But I must say one last point is the fact 225 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: that the Australian government was still trading with Russia. 226 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 3: Of course, of course they were, So how did it 227 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: get to the point where you actually went over to compete. 228 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: We had to sneak out of the country. We were vilified, 229 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: We had death threats, Our families had death threats. We 230 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: were told if we went, we'd be traders to the country. 231 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: In fact, I got a the day of my race 232 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: the eight hundred saying if you stand on those blocks, 233 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 2: you are a traded to the country. So it's pretty tough, 234 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: but it just shows also we had to sneak out. 235 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 2: We weren't allowed to tell anyone we were going. We 236 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: weren't glorified like the teens of today. I think we 237 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: were put in a very difficult situation. But as an athlete, 238 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: you have your goal and you have a dream, And 239 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: I think that's what drove me. 240 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 3: How did you come to make a huge decision obviously 241 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 3: you had that goal in that dream. Did you think like, 242 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: it's just a lot of pressure to be put under 243 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: your touched on the bribery. It's a lot of pressure 244 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 3: to be put under for a young person too. 245 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: Or we were seventeen. While I was seventeen, we weren't 246 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: even voting age. Wow, politics, we didn't understand politics. And 247 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: I couldn't understand why if you're trading, why are the 248 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: athletes being asked not to go so? And then they 249 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 2: kept saying, oh, what wouldn't be safe. But for example, 250 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: when we got to when we got to Moscow in 251 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: the opening ceremony, Afghanistan was standing behind us ready to 252 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: march in. And it just surprised me to no end. 253 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 2: If Russia had invaded Afghanistan, well, why is Afghanistan in 254 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: Russia competing at the Moscow Games? Yet the whole issue 255 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: was over. That's an eighteen year old sort of coming 256 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 2: to the awareness that something's something's missing in the equation. 257 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 2: But you know, the Olympics is the Olympics and you 258 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: switch off and you just go this is that our 259 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: preparation was definitely hampered by that whole debate. 260 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 3: And if we talk about your actual performance in eight 261 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 3: hundred meters, what was it like diving into the pool 262 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 3: and pulling out a performance like that? Oh? 263 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: Massive, It was just massive because I had the East 264 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: Germans with my primary and they had three goals in 265 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 2: each event, and so it's easy to mis metal when 266 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 2: their doping regime was more than ever. In fact, I 267 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: have the results in there three times more testosterone then 268 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: Ben Johnson was given. So you can imagine for a 269 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: female what that would change in your body, your agility, 270 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 2: your strength, oing, just knowing that you're going to win 271 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: because you have what it takes. So yeah, I think 272 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: touching the wall, I think that was so surprised the 273 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: East German girls. I think I surprised a lot of 274 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: people that I touched wall in first place and it 275 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: was just so massive, so massive. 276 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 3: How did it feel to stand on the Olympic podium 277 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 3: and have a gold medal put around your neck? 278 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,959 Speaker 2: Oh, it's as you will, We'll fill that moment. I 279 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: think it's time stands still and you see the Australian 280 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 2: flag and the anthem and it just brings it all together. 281 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 2: And I also felt at that moment that it brought 282 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: together the country that was separated because of the boycott issue, 283 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: and I think sport just unified the country, the people. 284 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 2: And you know, for me, of course, it was a 285 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: it was a moment of relief in one way that 286 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 2: everything I'd worked for was there on that podium. 287 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: It's actually really funny you say that word. That's that's 288 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 3: the word I used to describe the feeling of winning. 289 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: It is the relief and it is there's joy and shock, 290 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 3: and there's so many emotions that come with that moment, 291 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 3: but relief for me was the overarching feeling. And I've 292 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 3: actually heard a number of Olympians described Olympic Gooblos described 293 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 3: that exact same feeling. 294 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: It's another journalist asked me the same question and they said, 295 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 2: why do you say relief? But I think it's all 296 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 2: the different mixed emotions that come to one and and 297 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: you you finally sees sees that moment and it's such 298 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: a beautiful moment. 299 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think about it. I was seven when I 300 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 3: watched Kathy Frameman at Sydney two thousand. We'll talk about 301 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 3: Sydney two thousand in a little bit. But I was 302 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 3: seven when I watched Kathy and I decided in that 303 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: moment I wanted to win my very own Olympic gold medal. 304 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: And I feel like the sense of relief for me 305 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 3: is like I felt like that was my life's purpose 306 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 3: to try my very very best to win an Olympic 307 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 3: gold medal. But there were so many factors that could 308 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 3: have got in the way to stop that from happening. Similarly, 309 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: you had a multitude of factors that could have prevented 310 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 3: yours from happening, so that everything was able to line up, 311 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 3: that your training and preparation and everything that you were 312 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: even able to be at those Olympics. For everything to 313 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: come together, it's quite an amazing thing. 314 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: Yes, I think you've hit the nail there on the 315 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: spot because and that's where the Olympic glory has so 316 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: much more weight and brilliance in that because there are 317 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 2: so many factors that at play, and it's a World 318 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: championship is one thing you sort of go and it 319 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: doesn't have the same pressure somehow, I don't know how 320 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 2: to explain it, but there's so many different points that 321 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: can go wrong the food. I mean, you cut over 322 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,239 Speaker 2: in different countries, you're not in the same environment. I 323 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 2: mean our bus got lost on the way to the 324 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 2: the the venue for my four hundred meters freestyle, which 325 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: I came fourth, and it just kept We were just 326 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: lost in Moscow and it was a specific bus that 327 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: was designed to go from the village to the venue 328 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: and we were out in the streets of Moscow when 329 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: the warm up was on and you know, you start 330 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: looking at your word. 331 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 3: It makes me feel so anxious. 332 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: And your coaches at the pool waiting for you and 333 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 2: you're just going and you can't contact them. You didn't 334 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 2: have mobile phones back then, so we were just lost. 335 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: And yeah, as you turn up at the pool and 336 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 2: I didn't. I had probably about two laps to warm up. 337 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 2: Fortunately they had a warm up pool. But it's not 338 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: the same thing. You're not the same intensity. So yeah, 339 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: there's a lot of factors. 340 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely, there is. You've touched a couple of times on 341 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 3: the East Germans and the doping. At what point were 342 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 3: you aware that it was happening? Seventy six was the 343 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: wake up call? 344 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 2: Okay, we had heard about it. The Iron Curtain, as 345 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: we called it was no Westerner could get in to 346 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: those countries without invitation. No information, of course, was coming 347 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: out except the ones that they fed out. And so 348 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: there obviously we knew there was something because all of 349 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 2: a sudden they turned up to seventy six, they won 350 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: everyvery single medal bar two, every single female swimming medal, 351 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: bar two. That a lot of that lake up Cooree 352 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: and the Americans were very stunned at that, and Australia 353 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 2: was very stunned because we were always the queen of 354 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: the pool and we just got annihilated. 355 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 3: And at what point did they actually get found out 356 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 3: or was it just kind of the discussion that happened 357 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 3: in the lead up, Like you knew seventy six that 358 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 3: something was wrong, there was a flag that went off, 359 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 3: and then nineteen eighty had anything changed. 360 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: It got worse because they were still locked into their programs. 361 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: And I was researching for the book, so my book 362 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 2: that I just brought out, but I realized that their 363 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: program intensified because they saw how well it work in 364 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: seventy six, and so the DOSEH just went up. The 365 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 2: intensity of the program was just amazing, above and beyond 366 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: what we could ever imagine. It was a state run program, 367 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 2: so by eighty it was nearly triple what they were 368 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: at in seventy six. We found out when the war 369 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 2: came down, the Berlin War, and when the two Germanys 370 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: reunited in they had a court case. These Germans girls 371 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 2: took their administrators to court. So that was in ninety eight. Okay, 372 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: the war came down in eighty nine. So in eighty 373 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 2: nine what they call the STATSI files, the secret police files, 374 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: had all the documentation and I guess what is interesting 375 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 2: is the Germans write everything down. Everything is documented, so 376 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: the statsiphiles still contain today those the measures of doping 377 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 2: that was given to the girls. 378 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 3: It's pretty scary, isn't it very scary? And was that 379 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: drug testing at these Olympics that you competed at or 380 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 3: that didn't exist yet? 381 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: There was drug testing, but the East Germans were We 382 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: always hear the the pharmaceutical companies are always ahead of 383 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: the finding out and the tests for a certain substance. 384 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: And we only had urine testing back then. Now they 385 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 2: have blood testing, so and they can keep the samples 386 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: for years. After urine testing was very they had to 387 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: have a specific test for exactly the substance. That they 388 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 2: were using right, So it was very hot, and East 389 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 2: Germans would test all their girls before they went, and 390 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: they knew how many months they had it all planned, 391 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: how many months they could pull off before the competition, 392 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: and they would only come out, if I can say, 393 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 2: at the Olympic Games, because it was a power. It 394 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: was only at the Games that we saw this elevation 395 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: of the East German winning, in fact, all the medals 396 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: in Moscow, they won all the female races except the 397 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: ones I picked up. 398 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, can we discuss that part of the story, like, 399 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 3: how does that feel? Obviously you knew something was going 400 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 3: on in nineteen eighty, but there wasn't proof yet that 401 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 3: it was going on. How did it feel that you 402 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 3: were still able to beat them, and then many years later, 403 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 3: having the validation of it, of it coming out publicly. 404 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 2: It was a question I asked myself when I was 405 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: writing the book, because I realized at that point, and 406 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: this was only a couple of years ago, so forty 407 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: years after the fact that I realized that I was 408 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 2: the only one, only female Western swimmer to beat the 409 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 2: East Germans. And how did I do that? It was 410 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: quite but I think I outsmarted them I think it 411 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: was mind of a matter. With my coach, we decided 412 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: Unfortunately it was a distance event, so we had a 413 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 2: bit more tactical program, and I think I just stunned 414 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 2: them that I went through the lineup. At a certain 415 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 2: point I was at their feet at the two hundred meters, 416 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: like at their feet, and I swum through them and 417 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: got to the front. But when you're at the front, 418 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: you can't give up an easy road either, because knowing 419 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: what they'd taken, I knew that they had what it 420 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 2: would to come back at me. So I was saving 421 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 2: my energy at the same time. But I think it 422 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 2: was mind of a matter. 423 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and a bit of wheat bis to power you through, 424 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 3: maybe a little wheat pics and ice cream. 425 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: That's great, I love that. 426 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 3: I want to chat about your involvement with the IOC. 427 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: So you were invited to be a founding member of 428 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: the Athletes Commission for the IOC. 429 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 430 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: What is the Athletes's Commission? Can you explain that one? 431 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: The Athletes Commission is a committee that was set up 432 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one, after all this, after all the 433 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: problems with the Olympic movement. If the Austrained team didn't 434 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 2: go to Moscow and other Western nations didn't turn up 435 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: to Moscow in nineteen eighty there would be no more 436 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 2: Olympic Games. It would have been dead. And they knew 437 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: that the Olympic movementment, so they bought for the first 438 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 2: time athletes to talk to the Congress, that being all 439 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 2: the administrators of sport across the world. And at that Congress, 440 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: they thought we were just going to complain, as athletes 441 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: do we just complained, but instead we said, no, we're 442 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: going to we're going to give reason and we're going 443 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 2: to give a call to action, and we decided we 444 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: took on five points. That was the doping politics in 445 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: sport because of the boycott that had just happened and 446 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 2: it was going to happen again in nineteen eighty four 447 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: as a tip for tat from the East German from 448 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: the not only the East Germans, the East to the West, 449 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 2: because the eighty four Games were in Los Angeles. Yes, 450 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 2: and that did happen. So we had doping, and we 451 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: had gender because there was not one female in the 452 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: administration sport, not one or very few with the were secretary. Wow, 453 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: and there were only twenty five percent of our sports 454 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: female sports at the Olympic Games. So we were a 455 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: long way from being equal at that stage. And then 456 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: we had to throw in podium because we had to 457 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: have a Russian to present that was a political one 458 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: and yeah, so we bought those five issues to the table, 459 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: which actually woke the Congress and they actually listened. But 460 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: when we were writing the speeches for the and I 461 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: will the people in that room were Sebastian Coe, who's 462 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: the President of World Athletics today, Thomas Buck, president of 463 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: the Olympic Committee still today, and myself and a guy 464 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: Annoyagi and guy I've a former. And we're in that 465 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: room writing these speeches until three o'clock in the morning, 466 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: and we said, at about three o'clock we have to 467 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: ask for a seat at the table. And that's what 468 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: created the what we know now as the Athletes Commission. Wow, 469 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 2: we got a seat at the table, a seat to decide, 470 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: a seat to voice the concerns of athletes. 471 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 3: How was your voice heard, being a woman athlete in 472 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 3: that role. 473 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: I'd like to think it was, But when I look 474 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: at the rollover of the Athletes Commission, it was always 475 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 2: the females that rolled over and not the males. Right, 476 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: But I think we were. I think we got to 477 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 2: a point where we had the women's marathon put in, 478 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: we had two more females on the IOC as members, 479 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 2: so that was a big step even to get We 480 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 2: have got to remember this was a boys club, a 481 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 2: very big, powerful boys club, and I think that we 482 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: made a huge point. And the athletes since that time 483 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: have always persuaded and talked to the gender equality and 484 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: of course the doping and the other issues that we 485 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 2: brought up. And I think that voice is very important 486 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: and it needs to be heard, and it needs to 487 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: be the athletes voice, not the administrators who give the 488 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: athletes that voice. 489 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. How does it feel to have 490 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 3: been a part of such a It's a really defining 491 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: moment in time for the Olympics to be involved in 492 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 3: something like that where you were voicing on behalf of 493 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 3: the athletes. And if we look at it from a 494 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 3: gender equality lens for a second, Paris twenty twenty four 495 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 3: was the first time that we saw a gender equal 496 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 3: Olympics in terms of participation. In La twenty twenty eight 497 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 3: will actually see more women competing than men for the 498 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 3: first time in the history of the Olympic Games, which 499 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 3: is a huge achievement. How does it feel to have 500 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 3: been part of a movement like that. 501 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: I'm just happy that we were able to open that 502 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: pathway and have it talked to because it's still nonetheless 503 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: taken forty years to get to that point, which I 504 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 2: think you know, and it's that message still has has 505 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 2: to be moved further. There's still work to be done. 506 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 3: How does it feel watching our Australian swimmers now with 507 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 3: the likes of Arion Titmas, Emma McKeehan, Molly O'Callaghan, if 508 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 3: we talk about Paralympians as well, like your Alexa Leary's, 509 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 3: like there's so many incredible athletes with incredible stories. How 510 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 3: does it feel reflecting on your time as a thirteen 511 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 3: year old who was locked in your room, to see 512 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 3: the success and power that these athletes hold in Australian culture? 513 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 2: It looks I would have loved to be swimming today. 514 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,399 Speaker 2: It's a whole different game and I'm so glad that 515 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: our story was able to open the gates to change, 516 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,919 Speaker 2: to make those changes that now the girls. I sat 517 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 2: on the bord of swimming Australia and I saw that 518 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: change happen, and it was an important change to have 519 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 2: to give the athlete what they needed to get across 520 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 2: the line instead of holding back, instead of taking it 521 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 2: away from them, give them what they need, pamper them, 522 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 2: do what you need because it's a fierce competition out 523 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 2: there and we need to be able to perform. And 524 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 2: it is our culture. As you said, it's the DNA 525 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 2: of Australia and I hope we never lose that. Yeah, 526 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 2: I love that. 527 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 3: It's really powerful. You worked on the Sydney two thousand 528 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,479 Speaker 3: organizing committee that was such a huge Olympics. And again 529 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 3: for the people who listeners who weren't alive for Sydney 530 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 3: two thousand, I'm sorry that you missed out on such 531 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 3: an occasion. But what was that process like being a 532 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 3: part of that, It's. 533 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 2: Like it fulfilled my circle. I'd been the athlete, I've 534 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 2: been on the Athletes Commission, I've been at the IOC, 535 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 2: I've been at swimming, I've been at the Australian government 536 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: on the Australian Sports Commission. What was missing having home games? 537 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 2: And it I said, I can't miss out on this, 538 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 2: so I packed up. I was in Switzerland at the 539 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 2: time as director's Sport at the University and I came 540 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: back to be a head of the National Olympic committees 541 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 2: and I was in charge of the Australian team, which was. 542 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 3: Fantastic, amazing, amazing. How was that experience? 543 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 2: Oh, it was just brilliant. It was I think it 544 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 2: was the best games ever. I think Australian that the 545 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 2: public and our love for sport was transcended through those 546 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: games and working for them, it was just it was 547 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: just a thrill. 548 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 3: If we look ahead to Brisbane twenty thirty two, there's 549 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 3: been a lot of discussion in the media, a lot 550 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 3: of question marks around stadiums and facilities and all the 551 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 3: fun stuff. 552 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 2: What do you think. 553 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 3: Needs to be emulated from Sydney to make Brisbane a 554 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 3: really successful games? 555 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 2: Good question, because the planning for Brisbane is it with 556 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 2: the changes with the IOC and what they're asking that 557 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 2: we use our own stadia, the previous stadium, and we 558 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: use infrastructure that's from before. I sadly think that the 559 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 2: Brisbane needs to open up and say well, what's going 560 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 2: to be good for us in the future and look 561 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 2: at it in that perspective rather than trying to use 562 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 2: the stadium because the stadia are tired. You know, we 563 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 2: built those back for the Commonwealth Games in nineteen eighty two. 564 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 2: A lot of the stadium that's there, the football stadiums 565 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 2: have a different life. If we can open up and 566 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: say what do we need for our future generation? That 567 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 2: thought process look through that lens rather than looking through Oh, 568 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: we've got to be sustainable in that way, because I 569 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 2: think sustainability also has to look into the future and 570 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 2: our future athletes and our generations to come need need, 571 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 2: for example, a swimming pool. Yeah, how can we put 572 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 2: a drop in pool which was being considered and take 573 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 2: it away after the games? 574 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense, does it? 575 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 2: And so I'm so grateful for Brisbane's decision that we 576 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 2: now will have a new aquatic stadium. 577 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,919 Speaker 3: Do you know what's actually quite interesting. I haven't thought 578 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 3: about this prior to just us the two of us 579 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 3: sitting here now. So I currently play AFIW for the 580 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 3: GWS Giants based in Sidney Olympic Park and that's twenty 581 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 3: five years on from those Olympics, and it's still there's 582 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 3: a lot of people who live in the Homebush area, 583 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 3: but it's still a thriving precinct for sport. Thousands and 584 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 3: thousands of people that use it for sport from a 585 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 3: grassroots and community level through to the Matilda's playing games, 586 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 3: and obviously the stadiums will have referbs and things over time. 587 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 3: But twenty five years on and it's lived a pretty 588 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 3: good life and it's still got a long time to go. 589 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 3: With Sydney Olympic Park. 590 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 2: Right absolutely, and they're just having the master plan that 591 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 2: was put out recently. And I just by chance was 592 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 2: walking through there to have a look at the park 593 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 2: and I walked in and they were having a meeting 594 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 2: and they said, oh, well, what do you I didn't 595 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: know them, they didn't know me, and I said, well, 596 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: we're just here to find out what you're doing for 597 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 2: the sporting precinct and what we can put in is 598 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 2: a plan for sport and to hold that that feeling, 599 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 2: that keep that Sydney dream alive, because it's important. It's 600 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 2: important for Sydney and it's important for all those sporting 601 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 2: codes that use the part and we don't want it 602 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 2: to be sort of pushed out by ah, well you know, 603 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 2: other industry or housing or I think we do need 604 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 2: to hold that sporting precinct. And they were quite they said, oh, 605 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 2: we hadn't thought of that. So I would like to 606 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 2: think that the Sporting Precinct has we build that because 607 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 2: it just has so much for everyone who lived through it, 608 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 2: and you know who are using it today. 609 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely. You mentioned that you released your book Turning the Tide. 610 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 3: What was the process like for you writing a book 611 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 3: and why did you decide that you wanted to do it. 612 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 2: The process was was tough. I didn't want to actually 613 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 2: write it myself. I didn't think I had the capacity 614 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 2: to write it myself. That someone told me, if you 615 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 2: don't write, you don't get what you want. So I 616 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 2: put pen to paper to struggle through many years. But 617 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 2: it also I guess it's always therapeutic as well, one 618 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 2: might say. But there was a lot of research I 619 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 2: put into the book on the boycott, on the doping 620 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 2: is the doping of the East Germans, of what happened 621 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 2: to females along the way and why it happened. So 622 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 2: I guess a lot of questions were answered also for myself, 623 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 2: and I wanted it to be a history book that 624 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 2: from an athlete's perspective, what it does to the athlete 625 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 2: when a boycott is called, what it does to an 626 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 2: athlete when you treated differently from the boys, for example, 627 00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:02,240 Speaker 2: or just treated differently. What it does for to stand 628 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 2: up next to someone who's doped and have to think, 629 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 2: you know, you've got to be strong with that in them. 630 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 2: But they've got a mental advantage, they've got a physical advantage. 631 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 2: So who are you? And you know I proved in 632 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 2: writing the book. I realized that I proved that you 633 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 2: don't have to dope. You can get there. It's hard, 634 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 2: it's tough, but you can get there. And I'm just 635 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 2: hoping that some of those stories come out. Yeah, writing 636 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 2: the book was it was a challenging a couple of 637 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:47,439 Speaker 2: years for me, but so so happy that I made 638 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 2: it to the end and that it was published on 639 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 2: fair Play Publishing. I have to thank because many publishing 640 00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 2: agencies said forty years, You're forty years is too old 641 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:06,399 Speaker 2: for us. But I keep seeing the same issues back 642 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 2: on the table today. The doping is still there, We've 643 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 2: still got the politics, we've still got gender equality today. 644 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 3: I ask everyone on the show, what would you describe 645 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 3: as your favorite failure? 646 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 2: Favorite? 647 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,840 Speaker 3: That's it, It's tricky, favorite failure. 648 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. The heart My son said to me, Mama, 649 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 2: what was the hardest swim that you had to do? Oh? 650 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 2: Sat back and thank thought and I said, you know, 651 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 2: it wasn't the Olympic medal. It was in nineteen eighty 652 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 2: four when I wasn't selected on the team yet I 653 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 2: was put through a whole program of I was Olympic 654 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 2: defending champion. My times were there, I had a shoulder injury. 655 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 2: I came back for the trials that or this by 656 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,720 Speaker 2: the side. 657 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 3: I was. 658 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 2: In a mode where in one side of me said 659 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 2: you have to keep pushing through, and another side of 660 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 2: me kept saying, just give up. I didn't give up 661 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 2: part of my DNA. I guess I and the authorities, 662 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 2: the swimming federation at the time didn't put me on 663 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 2: the team even though my times were there and everything else. 664 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 2: And I think everyone can relate to that somewhere down 665 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 2: the sporting career, and I think it teaches you a lot. 666 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 2: After that moment, I was based at USC University Southern California, 667 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 2: which where the Olympic Pool was nineteen eighty four Olympic 668 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 2: Pool was to be held, and it was there that 669 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 2: I was born in to the Athletes Commission. Wow, So 670 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,879 Speaker 2: it was it was an a favorite failure. I love that. 671 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 2: So yeah, so one one turn of events you can 672 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 2: if you if you stay positive, there is something where 673 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 2: a shining light. 674 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 3: I love that, and that's why I love asking that 675 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,399 Speaker 3: question to people. And sometimes it takes people a moment 676 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,839 Speaker 3: to think like, oh, it's a weird way to ask 677 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 3: that question, but it's so incredible to hear when failure 678 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 3: leads to something like that, which you've now spent so 679 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 3: many years and it's a huge part of your purpose 680 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,719 Speaker 3: and your identity now, which is really special. Yeah. 681 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:46,240 Speaker 2: No, absolutely, it's a and so failure is almost good someway, somewhere, 682 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 2: somewhere along at the time. I love that. 683 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 3: Michelle. Thank you so much for your time today and 684 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 3: for sharing your story. It's been incredible insight into a 685 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 3: story that I've heard of and read about, but actually 686 00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 3: to hear it firsthand from you as an athlete is 687 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 3: been really powerful. So thank you so much. 688 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 2: Thank you very much Chloe for having me on the show. 689 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 2: And I love your interviewing style. It's fantastic. 690 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening. If you got something out 691 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,400 Speaker 3: of this episode, I would absolutely love it if you 692 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 3: could send it on to one person who you think 693 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 3: might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, give us a review, and 694 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 3: make sure you follow us on Instagram at the Female 695 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 3: Athlete Project to stay up to date with podcast episodes, 696 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 3: merch drops, and of course, news and stories about epic 697 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 3: female athletes.